From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest)
To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: buffy-digest V2 #494
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buffy-digest       Wednesday, September 30 1998       Volume 02 : Number 494



In this issue:

       Re: BUFFY: What a complete and total LETDOWN!!!!!
       Re: BUFFY: What a complete and total LETDOWN!!!!!
       Re: BUFFY: Anne observation
       BUFFY: Re: HORRIBLE! - Worst Ever!
       Re: BUFFY: Anne
       BUFFY: Re: Joyce
       BUFFY: whats with the Felicity bashing?
       BUFFY: Buffy:introduction, Anne comments
       BUFFY: Re: What a complete and total LETDOWN!!!!!
       BUFFY: "Anne" comments
       BUFFY: buffy/men in black possible spoilers?
       BUFFY: About the Anne episode
       Re: BUFFY: Anne
       BUFFY: Re: buffy-digest V2 #493
       BUFFY: Re: What a complete and total LETDOWN!!!!!
       BUFFY: Another Anne nitpick 
       BUFFY: Thoughts on the first episode.
       Re: BUFFY: Xander's Angel speech
       Re: BUFFY: Buffy ratings outside of the big 10.
       BUFFY: Faith
       Re: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
       Re: BUFFY: Re: buffy-digest V2 #493
       BUFFY: Favorite moment(s) from Anne
       BUFFY: Re: HORRIBLE! - Worst Ever!
       BUFFY: Buffy/Angel, Joyce, Xan Lie

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy
or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:48:39 EDT
From: XDru5iLLax@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: What a complete and total LETDOWN!!!!!

i agree... i mean it wasn't the best of all episodes, but i think it was
necessarry... and yeah, we all wanted to seea spectacular season opener, but
with all the changes that happened in the last two episodes, i think they hed
to be realistic in the time it would and will take to fix everything or at
least resolve everything. They couldn't have the first episode be Buffy going
to pull Angel out of hell. That would've been too quick. I think Joss is being
more realistic in his timing and this episode set up a lot of things for the
rest of the season. Of course, i have to admit, it was not that great of an
episode. i 'd probably rank it above Ted and Bad Eggs, though. 
One thing, when she was in Hell or whatever, did anyone else think she should
have looked around for Angel? Personally, I would have had her think she saw
him for a second while she was running through you know? Then later, she could
go back and find out stuff from Giles, learn that it reeally was hell and that
she probably did see angel and then she'll know how to get back there and save
him... when she's ready.... and she could probably get info on how to reopen
that entrance from one of the guys that opened the door or even that nurse.
but maybe i'm just thinking too much.
stacy

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:55:36 EDT
From: XDru5iLLax@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: What a complete and total LETDOWN!!!!!

i don't think they had anyway reasonable way available to explain everything.
i mean it's Giles' job to explain things, Buffy only works there. She never
really knows what's going on. and in this ep there was no Giles or  even Giles
like character to explain it all and Buffy's not exactly book girl or anthing.
That's why i think they left it like that. They'll probably explain it more
with Buffy talking to Giles about it back in Sunnydale. But that's just what i
think, and i've been notorious for being wrong.
stacy

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:09:14 -0400
From: "Crystie" <lita-cty@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Anne observation

<<Is it just me or did Oz's stake look a like it was once a baseball bat?
The bottom part looked like the end of a bat to me but hey I could just be
seeing things...Anne>>

I thought it was a drumstick.  I'm not talking about chicken!!!! I'm talkin
about him being in a band, and even though he plays the guitar, of using
drumsticks instead of steaks.

Crystie <lita-cty@worldnet.att.net>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friendship is a deeper emotion than love...but not as entertaining.
Keeper of the Willow's hand that Xander held, the Coke she and Xander
shared (RB), and her pent up Anger and Frustration, Keeper of Giles'
Inordinate Amount of Nudging, Keeper of Xanders Diet Dr. Pepper that he
paid for but Buffy ended up getting, his Swimming Cap (GF), and His
Irreesistability to Insects and Mummies.
Official Quote Helper of Buffy and Dawson's Creek for thewbfanz@onelist.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:16:01 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
From: ksefcik@email.unc.edu (Kimberly Sefcik)
Subject: BUFFY: Re: HORRIBLE! - Worst Ever!

A very angry Nicole said:

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E

>      Okay, this episode got us nowhere with last season's finale.
There >was NOTHING between Buffy/Angel, Buffy/slayerettes, Buffy/new
>slayer. 

Actually, I thought that there was a lot of chemistry among the
Slayerettes.  Sure, not all the questions were answered - but c'mon,
Joss has to leave something for the next several episodes.  If he were
to reveal all the answers to the questions from the finale, who'd want
(and I'm referring to casual viewers, here) to watch next week?

>Oh wow, joy joy, we got a one minute glimpse of Buffy going home....
>SO disappointing!

Actually, that really left me in suspense - what's going to happen
between Buffy and her mom?  There're issues there  . . .  the whole
incident w/Giles proved that.  Buffy's mom has lost out on a great deal
of Buffy's life and that's something that isn't answered in one story -
it's going be a long arc throughout the season.

>That ''hell'' was pathetic! A factory!? That's supposed to be
''demonic''?

Actually, I don't think that was really supposed to be hell.  (if it
was, Dante is rolling in his grave)

The whole "factory" thing was highly symbolic about how "growing up" too
fast makes people prematurely old, isolated and lonely (remember the "I
am no one"?).  The vast majority of the storylines in Buffy are more
symbolic than realistic and should be taken as such.  Joss was trying to
show how Buffy was trying to grow up too fast (and was being forced to
grow up too fast) by running away from her past and her family.

>premiere... it's an insult to all of us devoted Buffy fans, and it's an
insult
>to the past two seasons. 

Granted, it wasn't Joss' best work (and no where near last season's
premiere) but I think that you're being harsh.  This show isn't about
instant gratification (like the kids in those test studies who eat the
whole marshmallow instead of waiting five minutes to get two
marshmallows instead) - it's about thinking about what Joss was trying
to say in each ep (even the bad ones) and putting all the eps together
as a whole.  

Also, you're ignoring all the good points of the ep: 1) the dynamics
between Giles and Buffy's Mom, 2) Oz has lots of screen time :-)  3) the
sheer hilarity of the Cordelia/Xander thing and how wonderfully they
pull it off (those two have some chemistry) 4) the scattered references
to other eps (Inca Mummy Girl, Lily guest-starring)  5) the cool new
opener  6) Alyson's phat hair ;-)

kimmie (who never ate the marshmallow in the test studies)


__________
Kim Sefcik, <ksefcik@email.unc.edu>
Secretary of ASHFC
Keeper of Giles' Past, Oz's Werewolf Howl and Angel's Underwear
Richie Reserve (Clan Denial), MFW/PWFC
Chancer, Cousin and Yet Another Bleepin' X-Phile
http://www.unc.edu/~ksefcik/index.html


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:15:30 EDT
From: Arakzile@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Anne

When Cordy and Xander staked that vampire in "Anne" the stake dissapeared, on
the other hand, last season, Kendra handed Mr Pointy to Buffy and told her
that she had staked many vamps with it!

Kara


n a message dated 98-09-30 19:36:57 EDT, Chewie615@aol.com writes:

<< Not always so; when someone keeps hold of the stake, it stays witht hem to
be
 sure, however, when it is left in the vampire's chest, it disappears.  I've
 noticed this before too, so I took some time and made my observations. >>



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:20:09 EDT
From: Arakzile@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: Re: Joyce

In a message dated 98-09-30 19:54:45 EDT, sapphire@chaos.x-philes.com writes:

<< Well, I'm not a younger member, and I am not fond of Joyce.  >>


I am a younger member and I don't like Joyce either, not because she was hard
on Buffy at times, but because she blamed Giles for Buffy running away....it
wasn't his fault......on the other hand, I could understand, she was just
probably looking for someone to blame because she felt like it might have been
her fault (ie: her conversation with Buffy before she left...)  I think my
mother would try to blame someone so she could actually try to get her anger
out without going insane. 

Kara

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:26:24 -0400
From: "VampireHunter" <VampireHunterC@email.msn.com>
Subject: BUFFY: whats with the Felicity bashing?

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Felicity may not be as good as buffy but it in no way sucks

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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:37:26 -0400
From: "Matus, Mary E." <matus@roo.susqu.edu>
Subject: BUFFY: Buffy:introduction, Anne comments

Hi Everybody,

	My name is Mary and I've been lurking on the list for a few weeks now.
Everything was so hectic since I came back to school, especially since
it is my senior year.  But now, that things are settling down and the
new season will be starting soon, I thought I'd jump on in.
	 A little about myself...I'm 21(what an awesome age to be!) and I'm
majoring in English and journalism at Susquehanna University in
Selinsgrove, Pa. I'm very active in my college newspaper, but I also
enjoy writing fiction in my spare time.
	Now for last night's show... I agree that certain points of the plot
were unexplained, a little confusing and even a little silly. However,
after everything that happened in the last show (the Joyce/Buffy fight,
Angel's death) I wasn't really expecting a really strong plot-driven
storyline. Buffy has a lot to deal with and I am grateful to Joss for
concentrating on Buffy's problems instead of an indepth monster
storyline. Although I agree a little explanation was needed for whatever
Kenny and the "hell" was, I think a lengthy explanation would have taken
away from Buffy, her character development, and the final scene where
she is reunited with her mother.
	A few small things... Everybody mentioned this, but I loved "I'm Buffy,
the Vampire Slayer and you are?" I started cheering.
	I thought it was so cool that Lilly was the one to kill Kenny. Even
though she was a minor character, she grew during the length of the
episode.
	The first scene with everybody trying to kill the vampires...hilarious.
	The Giles/Joyce scene... I should have seen it (her anger at Giles)
coming, but I just went "Whoa! Give the guy a break!"
	Overall, it wasn't the type of exciting show I would expect for a
season premiere, but I still enjoyed the character development.

								Mary


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:28:53 -0700
From: jim <sixpak@erols.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Re: What a complete and total LETDOWN!!!!!

<<After a LONG summer of reruns I couldn't wait for a new episode.  I
knew, or thought, that it would be great.  I was wrong.  This took a
whole summer to write?  When I compare the episodes, Anne will go down
with Killed By Death.  The problem with this episode is that it was
written wrong.  In my opinion, the story should have had Buffy going to
hell to search for Angel.  Once she realizes that she HAD to kill him,
she could return home.  I just can't believe how bad this episode was.
And my local WB didn't show a preview for the next episode!  What an
awful night!>>

   What did you expect?!?!?! Did you want everything good to happen in
the first episode?? If you were a true fan maybe you would have thought
of this before posting this stupid message. I for one absolutely loved
it, and can not wait for future episodes. Joss has never failed me and I
don't expect him to start!! And the fact that you can say that something
Joss wrote was bad, is just beyond me!!!!! Well, I know many of you will
agree with me when I say I LOVED it.
    And also, what do you mean go DOWN with Killed By Death!! That was a
great episode and one of my faves.
   Also, what do you mean going to HELL to search for Angel? How did you
expect her to do that!?!?!?!?!?!? Has anyone just strolled over to Hell
for a visit you know of?!?!?!? Okay, I have a million mean things going
through my head right now and if I don't stop I will probably say
something that I'll regret later. Thanks everyone, for hearing my two
cents.

Jill
Keeper of Buffy's "goodbye" note
Keeper of Xander's concern for Willow's health


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:34:07 -0500
From: Kathryn Johnston <johnstka@calumet.purdue.edu>
Subject: BUFFY: "Anne" comments

Hello, all!
    A few comments regarding "Anne."  First, I enjoy the fact that there have been
enough episodes that characters like Lilly and Larry can show up to remind us of our
Buffy "past."  I really enjoyed the long shot at the beginning, which is more of a
film technique than television.  (See the opening shot of "The Player" for example.)

    Larry may have been held back by his parents to repeat his senior year at the
urging of his football coach.  In many fanatical football regions, star football
players regularly repeat grades in school so that they will be bigger and more
experienced than others and that their team will have a better chance at winning.
This has gotten so bad in some areas that the school athletic leagues have rules
about how old you can be and still play in high school.  Texas is particularly
notorious in this regard.
    The responses to "Anne" highlight the different reasons people are attracted to
"Buffy."  I watch because I love the writing, and the metaphors such as high school
as hell.  I am not in love with any of the characters or actors, although I do enjoy
most of their work.  [David B. is not as an accomplished an actor as some of the
others, IMHO, since he sometimes rushes his lines, for example.]  As a librarian, I
love the fact that research is crucial in the fight against evil in Buffy, and that
a librarian plays a vital role.
    It is apparent that some folks watch for the Buffy/Angel relationship, others
because various actors (male or female) are "hot," some for the humor, etc.
    So why do you watch "Buffy?"
Kathryn, a librarian and a Buffyatric
PS  Jill, from this message you can tell I got home safely. Even if I did go the
wrong way (east) on I190.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:40:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thu Ngo <savoir127@yahoo.com>
Subject: BUFFY: buffy/men in black possible spoilers?

Hey everyone!
I don't know if this requires spoiler space, but I'm leaving just a
leetle bit











Well, anyway, remember that scene where, after Buffy, Lily and Ken
fall in the portal thingie and Ken rips off his face and goes "Do you
know how hard it was to glue this thing on?" or something like that?
For some reason, it reminded me of that scene in Men in Black where
Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones goes to the pawn shop and Tommy blows
that guy's head off, and it grows back, and he goes, "Do you have any
idea how much that stings?"

Okay, okay... I'm going a little kooky... but that's what I thought...


==
Peace & Love, 
Thu Ngo ~ savoir127@yahoo.com ~      
"Dream as if you'll live forever, Live as if you'll die today."


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:40:26 -0700
From: jim <sixpak@erols.com>
Subject: BUFFY: About the Anne episode

Hello all,
  This was a really great ep!! And I also noticed when I was watching it
that in one scene in the school halls we Larry from Phases holding a
football talking to another guy! I was just curious if anyone else
caught this as well?? Okay, I guess that's it.

Jill
Keeper of Buffy's "goodbye" note
Keeper of Xander's concern for Willow's health


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:44:51 EDT
From: Marusky@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Anne

In a message dated 9/30/98 10:19:54 AM EST, csummers@utf01.utelfla.com writes:

<< We also saw Buffy at her best with the quips written for her (love the tea 
 cozy line). >>
Heck yeah!!!! That is my favorite from the entire episode!! I like this
episode! I guess I find it really hard to actually dislike any Buffy episode.
I also thought that this whole hell-thing would have something to do with
Angel, but alas. 
I am dying for another episode I don't  know if I can wait another week!

Babbling as usual,
Marusky :)
"Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn."
Keeper of Oz's Halloween beard

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:50:07 PDT
From: "... ..." <vampireslayr@hotmail.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Re: buffy-digest V2 #493

Subject: BUFFY: HORRIBLE! - Worst Ever!

           
           
>>>  Let me just start off by being blunt, and getting it off my chest. 
I'm  sure I'm just repeating what everyone else has said, but I feel 
much better  saying it myself!<<<

I know everybody is aloud to feel what they want to about the episode 
but you guys are making it sound like this entire episode was such a 
waste of time....Which It wasn't!!!!

>>>Okay, this episode got us nowhere with last season's finale. There 
was  NOTHING between Buffy/Angel, Buffy/slayerettes, Buffy/new slayer. 
Oh wow, joy  joy, we got a one minute glimpse of Buffy going home.... SO 
disappointing!<<<

Joss wanted to show you what Buffy (just her) has been doing... he most 
likely wanted to stay away from the whole Buffy/Angel thing, and I have 
to say I am glad I was really getting tried of it last season...


>>>Buffy's hair was just... ugh.... no   comment... none whatsoever.<<<

This is one point I have to agree with you on.... Did anybody else think 
she looked like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz...

It is my feeling that the people who said this episode sucked or was not 
good was because they were expecting some great wonderful episode and 
they thought that they had everything figured out and when the episode 
didn't go the way that they thought it should then weel it was very 
good... Please don't get mad at me for saying this this is on what I 
have percived...




Marat 
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/6691/
- -------------------------------------------------
"I had everything within my reach
I had money and stuff
Each and every call
Too much but never enough
Tear it up and watch it fall"
               -The Sisters of Mercy
- ---------------------------------------------------


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:14:17 +0000
From: Jack Welsh <joloam@ici.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Re: What a complete and total LETDOWN!!!!!

Actually I consider myself a true fan (i've watched and taped every 
episode since the beginning) and just because I didn't like the season 
premier gives you no right to call my ideas or thoughts stupid.  

That said, I thought that it would have been good if Joss had written 
a story where Buffy is forced to go to hell (three stages) and search 
for her long lost love.  I thought this would give her strenght to go 
home and face her family and friends.  My main problem with this 
episode was the fact that it sort of combined the two themes typical 
to Buffy: creature-feature and emotions.  I compare this episode to 
"Bad Eggs" where there was the mother egg plotline and the emotions of 
the relationship between Buffy and Angel.  This makes the episode too 
complex and a little hard to follow.

I just wished the episode was a little more like "When She Was Bad".  
That was a great season opener that had Buffy facing vamps while 
confronting her own emotional problems.  

BTW: I don't consider the vampire/emotion episodes bad.  I don't put 
vampires in the creature feature section.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:58:06 -0400
From: TedJMill@mindspring.com
Subject: BUFFY: Another Anne nitpick 

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The demons had a work force of dozens of slaves.  Because time passes so =
fast there, 100 years to an Earth day, then all of those workers must =
have been recruited in the past Earth day; any from before then would =
have been dead of old age by the time Buffy showed up.  So were dozens =
of runaway teenagers being recruited every single day via Ken's place?  =
That's a couple hundred a week (with a couple hundred elderly homeless =
people turning up every week).  For sheer volume of mysterious =
disappearances, that beats Sunnydale easily. =20

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>The demons had a work force of =
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slaves.&nbsp; Because time passes so fast there, 100 years to an Earth =
day, then=20
all of those workers must have been recruited in the past Earth day; any =
from=20
before then would have been dead of old age by the time Buffy showed =
up.&nbsp;=20
So were dozens of runaway teenagers being recruited every single day via =
Ken's=20
place?&nbsp; That's a couple hundred a week (with a couple hundred =
elderly=20
homeless people turning up every week).&nbsp; For sheer volume of =
mysterious=20
disappearances, that beats Sunnydale easily.&nbsp; =
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:00:02 -0500
From: "mary wilkerson" <mwilkers@ghg.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Thoughts on the first episode.

Dang, missed the first episode! That's what happens when you take night
classes.
I'm going to make my comments based on what I've read on the list, so bear
with me.
From what I have read, Joyce isn't taking this revelation thing well. Maybe
that will be a theme in this season. It could prove tiresome after a while
but might prove interesting in the short run. But sooner or later, Joyce
will have to get off this blaming someone else for her lack of knowledge and
let the Buffy get on with her job. If Joyce tries to question Giles on every
case Buffy goes on, after a while it will prove distracting and possibly
dangerous.
As for her not looking for Angel, frankly I get the feeling she had more
important things to think about than Angel (for which I am glad). I'm not
much on Buffy/Xander possibilities but Buffy/Angel was becoming too much,
even for my quasi-romantic side.
So now she's home. So now what happens? Does she go back to school? Does she
face off to the principal? Does her mother threaten law suit against the
school and police if she isn't completly cleared of all charges and allowed
to return to class? I guess we turn in next week to find out.
Oh, and who ever said that it was mostly the younger viewers that didn't
like Joyce - sorry I'm probably only a few years younger than Joyce is
suppose to be (I'm late 30's), and she leaves me cold. And a little bit
angry.
Mary W.
http://www.crosswinds.net/houston/~mwilkers
mwilkers@ghg.net



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:07:10 EDT
From: Marusky@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's Angel speech

<<However, in the end, we disagree on the conclusion.  I also forgot to
mention where he was up for anything Darla wanted him to do so long as it
didn't involve honest work.

In any case, I think he pretty much *was* a total nasty.  >>
I think the fact that he was drunk should be taken into consideration in
regard to the Darla incident. I don't think he necessarily would have acted
quite the same way had he been sober. Now I'm not saying he wouldn't have had
sex with her at all, but maybe in that particular setting he would have
reconsidered due to the alley, the fact she was unescorted, etc.
Secondly, I think that whole "that doesn't involve an honest day's work" was
sarcastic. I don't think he quite meant it. Then again I think that's open ot
interpretation as well. Since I'm a sarcastic person, I see the line in a more
jovial light.
Now to go completely off my argument, I think this scene shouldn't have been
done with Angel drunk. Had he been sober, I- a staunch Buffy-Angel supporter-
would have to agree he was a (to quote myself- how late was I up that night?
:) "total nasty." Yet the fact remains, we saw him without his normal
inhibitions, without any background info (did he and his father not get along
for some particular reason- refer to his Halloween statement about not liking
girls from his time if you really want to read into that maybe he was stuck in
a horrible prearranged marriage (I've read too many romance novels [sigh]). I
think we need more info, but I'm sticking with my whole "he was drunk" partial
defense. 

Marusky :)
"Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn."
Keeper of Oz's Halloween beard


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:57:14 -0400
From: Jeff Rohaly <rohaly@iaw.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy ratings outside of the big 10.

At 17:19 1998-09-30 -0700, Doyce Testerman wrote:

>I personally would like to know where to look on the internet for
>information like this, if such info is available to the general public.
>(Specifically, I'm curious about Denver and Minn/StPaul.)

Unfortunately, the individual market ratings aren't available to the
general public.  I happened to pick up the city-by-city ratings for Anne
from someone who posts to rec.arts.tv and has the info because he works
with the FOX affiliate in the DC market in something to do with
advertising.  But he doesn't regularly post Buffy ratings like that.  So
unless there's someone out there on this list who works at a TV station in
one of the 40 major markets or who works for The WB, we'll have to settle
for the composite overnight ratings -- the ones I normally post to the list
- -- that are available from Ultimate TV (http://www.ultimatetv.com) in its
Daily News section.

Jeff Rohaly
rohaly@iaw.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:32:38 -0400
From: Ryan Harrington <ryanh@intermediatn.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Faith

If you watch closely you'll see Faith (the possible new ******) in the
opening credits. Its towards the begining when Buffy and some others are
running in a dark alley. I'm pretty sure that's Faith in the pink shirt
beside her.
~Ryan


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:31:01 EDT
From: VampGrl22@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Re: Joyce

Well, I thought I'd weigh in on the Joyce issue.  My perception of  Joyce has
always been that she is simply a charicture (?) of the typical parent as seen
through the eyes of a high school student- she's the clueless, full of well-
meaning but ultimately useless parental cliches mom who just doesn't get it.
I've always thought that this is why we havn't had very much character
development on Joyce- she's not supposed to be all that likeble, she's just a
prop for Buffy's character development.  I mean, come on, would any mom in the
real world be quite SO clueless as Joyce (or the police of Sunnydale) have
been throughout all of the crises Sunnydale has been through?  And besides,
wouldnt your average mom wonder at Buffy's oh-so-close relationship with the
school librarian? (Think about all of the times he's been at her house...)

VampGirl
 Keeper of Willow's interrogation techniques (GF), Xander's design plans for
the very tiny fence he believed Buffy was buliding (WttH), Joyce's industrial
strength detergent (for getting the blood out of Buffy's clothes), Dru's
"Angel always knows what speaks to a girl's heart,"  (BBB), Xander's "Oh yea
baby, its snake-o-licious in here (IOHEFY), Giles' weapons cabinet in the
library, adoptive mother to fishman Gage (GF), owner of 250 shares of David
Boreanz, BRLQ #67, GASPer 


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:39:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: a mockingbird girl <dia@fidalgo.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Re: buffy-digest V2 #493

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, ... ... wrote:
 
> >>>Buffy's hair was just... ugh.... no   comment... none whatsoever.<<<
> This is one point I have to agree with you on.... Did anybody else think 
> she looked like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz...

Actually, I kept thinking of Anne of Green Gables. I *know* someone on
this list once posted the silarities of the Buffy/Xander Anne/Gilbert
thing, but the whole braids and plaid outfits, just had the phrase "puffed
sleeves" going through my head for a good couple of minutes. *grin*

debbie - although when she let it down, it was great hair. 

dia@fidalgo.net for the mail, webpage, and other misc. complaints =)



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:44:37 EDT
From: Arakzile@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: Favorite moment(s) from Anne

My favorite moments are'.....(drum roll please)

* when the nasty demon guy kept asking everyone who they were and he comes to
Buffy and she says, "I'm Buffy,...........the vampire slayer, and you are?"  I
know I have told the list members this, but I loved it a TON!   I laughed
until I cried!

* when Lily pushed Ken off the ledge!  hee hee hee

* yeah, the tea cosy line was funny too LOL

* when Buffy went home and hugged her mom, (almost needed the tissues) =)~

* The very first line said in the eppisode, "That's right big boy, come and
get it!"   I LOVE IT!   

* of course, the Buffy/Angel dream.....<sigh>  I'm an Angel lover!

there are more, but those my fav...Oh!  And when Ken sees Buffy fighting back
and is totally ahocked and says "They're not supposed to fight abck!"

my 2 cents!

Kara

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:47:18 EDT
From: Nicoley99@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: Re: HORRIBLE! - Worst Ever!

Kimmie (who never ate marshmallows???) said:

<< Actually, I thought that there was a lot of chemistry among the
 Slayerettes. >>
 
 Yes, okay... I liked that they had their little moment of glory from going
from slayerettes to slayer, and I liked seeing them that much... but when I
said not enough of them, I meant the Buffy/slayerette relationship.  Sure they
mentioned her and when she was going to be back, but I would have liked it
much better if there was some interaction with Buffy. Even a phone call would
have accomplished that. Or making her come home earlier than a minute before
the episode ended... ya know? I understand what you're saying about not
cramming everything into one episode... but I don't think they did enough with
the interaction between the finale, and the premiere.
 
 <<Actually, that really left me in suspense - what's going to happen
 between Buffy and her mom?  There're issues there  . . .  the whole
 incident w/Giles proved that.  >>
 
 Okay, I agree on that. It did leave me in suspense, too... but I think it was
just incomplete. Instead of it being suspenseful, I would have rather seen a
little longer with her mom. You know... I would have liked to see them working
out their problems. Is this making sense to anyone but me?
 
 Actually, I don't think that was really supposed to be hell.  (if it
 was, Dante is rolling in his grave)
 
 Your ''growing up too fast'' interpretation is a good one. I think it's true
about the factory seen... but many people, including me, took that scene as
Hell. And alot took the head demon as Satan. I think it could have been
explained a little better.

 <<Granted, it wasn't Joss' best work (and no where near last season's
 premiere) but I think that you're being harsh. >>
 
Yes, I am being harsh... but that's my opinion. I seriously thought this
episode wasn't even worth the time it took to watch it. I really felt that it
was that bad. Sure, it had it's good points, but I feel the bad points
OUTNUMBERED them. Like I said, that's my opinion... and sure, others are going
to differ, and that's alright. This is just the way I feel about this episode.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Buffy... I practically live for Buffy, like many of
you on here. This is just one (the ONLY) episode I don't like.

Nicole.... (still disappointed.... hoping for better next week)
 

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:49:15 PDT
From: "Elka Priest" <elka_knits@hotmail.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Buffy/Angel, Joyce, Xan Lie

hi all, well it seems that those who were disappointed in Anne were 
mainly upset that interpersonal issues from Becoming were not dealt 
with.  I did not care for ep too much but upon reflection I think it was 
good[not what I wanted but i don't know where Joss is going and it was 
good at what it did]   
  Buffy/Angel issue was dealt with.  OK she didn't look for him[if you 
really believe she was in Hell] but last we saw her Buffy was down in 
dumps, homeless, jobless, schoolless, loveless in other words one big 
Less.  She got a job, a place to stay[all hard to do in setting 
provided], and supposedly recurring dreams re Angel.  In fact she was so 
haunted by dreams that to hear others saying they loved each other 
"forever" caused her to bail.  Part of grief is learning to function[get 
your ass out of bed], and guilt over actions.  Would you prefer to have 
seen Buffy hip hopping around?  I think Joss showed her having learned 
to function, feeling guilty, and then in Anne moving beyond guilt to 
accept who she is.  She still has issues to face but at least she isn't 
running and hiding any more[didn't Xander tell the cops in Willows Hosp 
room that Buffy didn't do "this"]

  Joyce didn't really mean Buffy couldn't come home.  She did look in 
Buffy's room and [in adult restrained manner]collapse on bed when she 
realized Buffy wasn't coming back.  Maybe she shouldn't have said it but 
lets face it if somebody told you they had to put themselves in mortal 
danger would you say don't go or see ya at the funeral?  As for her 
feelings for Giles--they are totally justified.  No kid tells their 
parents what they do, in fact Buffy was running from fate at beginning 
of series so why should she have said to Giles I am not the slayer and 
then tell mom BTW I am a slayer.  Ted thought she was delusional, crazy 
kid when he read about slaying so who is to say mom would encourage and 
support her[death wish type of behavior].  I do not care that a vamp 
dusted in front of her eyes...apparently monsters roam the streets of 
Sunnydale every day and nobody really notices so.. you can't expect her 
to take everything in during a 5min convo w/Spike and Buffy.  How does 
this apply to Giles--well you have a sensible adult whom you like[Joyce 
has said how good he is for Buffy]and you find out he has been 
encouraging/supporting dangerous behavior.  Furthermore you realise that 
you are no longer your kids person to run to and that position has been 
taken by Giles [as a mom the day my daughter doesn't feel she can turn 
to me when she is at risk/needs help--I know she won't tell me about sex 
and drugs and other stuff I am too square to know about--will be a day I 
will mourn for a long, long time and yes I will resent the person who 
takes my place *even though I will be thankful she has somebody]

Xan Lie well Xander left w/Giles before Angel came back and if you 
recall he did say that maybe spell didn't work in time[to Willow].  He 
also has felt Angel should go from day one so why should he be feeling 
guilty?  For all he and the rest know Buffy left because she was 
expelled/Joyce said go/ and she has no chance of reuniting w/Angel... 
either because Angelus is serving time in hell[spell didn't come off 
before killed] or because Angel bringing back spell came off after 
portal was opened.  

sorry for long post elka who rambles on quite a bit

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- -

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