RE: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high"

From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #1379 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Thursday, May 17 2001 Volume 02 : Number 1379 In this issue: RE: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? big cap stock du jour (was Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?) RE: [CANSLIM] COCO pullback RE: [CANSLIM] What did I do wrong? Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:13:21 -0700 From: "DiFabio, Nancy" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0DF2E.FDEC0BEE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GOLLY-GEE, Tom, is there anything you don't know? - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Worley [mailto:stkguru@netside.net] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:07 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" "does it ever not have a minus sign" - yes, when it closes at a new 12 month high. Then it's zero percentage. It simply measures the distance in percentage from the 12 month high. That high is ground zero, everything else is a minus. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Hollingworth To: CANSLIM Listserv Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 6:09 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" On the investors.com charts, it says above the chart, for example, "-7% off 52-week high". To me, an English major, putting a negative sign before the percentage off the high implies that it is actually above the high. Do you all agree? (It's like a double negative.) If it is 7% below the high, it should say "7% off 52-week high". Does it ever NOT have a minus sign? Ann - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. "WorldSecure " made the following annotations on 05/17/01 17:12:04 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE NOTE: This message, including any attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information. Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Thank you. ============================================================================== - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0DF2E.FDEC0BEE Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RE: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high"

GOLLY-GEE, Tom, is there anything you don't know?

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Worley [mailto:stkguru@netside.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:07 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high"

"does it ever not have a minus sign" - yes, when it
closes at a new 12 month high. Then it's zero percentage.

It simply measures the distance in percentage from the 12 month
high. That high is ground zero, everything else is a minus.

Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Hollingworth <annholly@mediaone.net>
To: CANSLIM Listserv <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 6:09 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high"

On the investors.com charts, it says above the chart, for
example, "-7% off
52-week high".

To me, an English major, putting a negative sign before the
percentage off
the high implies that it is actually above the high. Do you all
agree? (It's
like a double negative.)

If it is 7% below the high, it should say "7% off 52-week high".

Does it ever NOT have a minus sign?

Ann

-
-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.

"WorldSecure <irell.com>" made the following
annotations on 05/17/01 17:12:04
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: This message, including any attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information. Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Thank you.

==============================================================================

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0DF2E.FDEC0BEE-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:12:40 -0400 From: "Ann Hollingworth" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" Duh!! I really space out sometimes. Thanks for being so tactful. Ann - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Worley" To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" > "does it ever not have a minus sign" - yes, when it > closes at a new 12 month high. Then it's zero percentage. > > It simply measures the distance in percentage from the 12 month > high. That high is ground zero, everything else is a minus. > > Tom Worley > stkguru@netside.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ann Hollingworth > To: CANSLIM Listserv > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 6:09 PM > Subject: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" > > > On the investors.com charts, it says above the chart, for > example, "-7% off > 52-week high". > > To me, an English major, putting a negative sign before the > percentage off > the high implies that it is actually above the high. Do you all > agree? (It's > like a double negative.) > > If it is 7% below the high, it should say "7% off 52-week high". > > Does it ever NOT have a minus sign? > > Ann > > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:30:32 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? The math is off a little, Ann, but I get the idea (when the stock is 10% over your entry, 15% of its then current price will place your stop slightly more than 5% below your entry price). The reason for the rule to start first with an 8% stop loss from your entry point (and that assumes correct entry, otherwise all bets are off), then raise your stop to your entry point only once the stock has gained 15%, then "chase" the stock's further gains with a continuing trailing stop loss of 15%, is that Wm O'Neil found that to be the best balanced "formula" from trial and error and back testing. I just went quickly thru HTMMIS to find exactly what WON said on this 10 years ago, and it differs somewhat. He does talk of "7% to 8%" losses, rather than only 8%, and he also reiterates selling once you are up 20% "except on the strongest stocks" which he defines as those that gained 20% in less than 8 weeks. Those should be held for at least 8 weeks, (presumably unless they violate the stop loss, altho he doesn't say that). I do know that the pattern I describe above is not only what I was trained on by his staffers, but also what he said in an interview for Registered Rep, a magazine for stock brokers. He also says that once a stock has gained 15%, it should be given more room than 7% to 8% "to roam". Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Hollingworth To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? I have a similar question. WON says to wait until 20% gain (or 15%) to change your stop loss up to the price you paid for the stock. Then, as the price moves up, (maybe this is people on this list, rather than WON) keep a trailing limit at 15% below the current price. My question: Why wait until the price is up 20% to put the trailing limit at 15% below. I start with a stop loss at 8% below price. As the stock moves up 10% above purchase price, why not move my stop up to 5% below purchase price? (15% below current price) Is it because the stock is more likely to drop as it breaks out? (of course considering volume, as well) Thanks, Ann - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? > > I have another note/question on this topic. > It dawned upon me today that maybe my (our?) expectations are too high. > For instance, if a stock went up 15% it does not even occur to me to take > profits. 20% is only a reason to tighten my stop loss. > Another example: COCO goes up from 45 to 52 in two days. I got in at 47+ > and at 51 did not think that maybe I should sell. Now it is down to 47 and > I am surprised. But should I be surprised? It went up over 15% in a > couple of days and there are enough people out there who will take profit > under these circumstances. Should I not have sold at 51 EXPECTING a > pullback? The times when a stock moved up 15% in two days without giving > anything back are gone. Maybe, if I am lucky to catch a move like that, I > should sell and get back in when the expected weakness/pullback develops. > > I am tired of getting 12-15% gains to come back down to the point where I > sell to break even or to loose commisions. > > Any thoughts? > > Anna > > > > "Rick Parsons" @lists.xmission.com on > 05/17/2001 12:17:41 PM > > Please respond to canslim@lists.xmission.com > > Sent by: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > > > To: > cc: > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? > > > Have most of your losses taken place since the bear market started in March > of 2000? > How did you folks do prior to the beginning of the bear market? > > Rick > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Cefaloni, John L > Jr. [AMSTA-AR-WEA] > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:04 AM > To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? > > > Steve, > > I'm sure someone will find something technically wrong with the stock, but > in the meantime, don't beat yourself up. If I dug through my records, > which > I won't do because it will be too heartbreaking, I could show you lots of > examples where I got burned the same way. I bought many CANSLIM breakouts > that shook me out with an 8% loss and then would invariably go on to make > new highs. This has happened to me more time than I care to admit. To > make > matter worse, a close friend, who often buys the same stocks, will sit out > the pullback and then reap the profits of the gains that follow. That is > really painful. > > Anyway, you're not alone. > > John C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve F [mailto:stevepdv@yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 9:34 AM > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? > > > My reasons for buying ROIL were, the current CANSLIM > fundamentals are very good - growing sales, earnings, > industry group, acc/dist, timeliness. The technical > reasons were the breakout of a trendline that I have > been following. I set my trend line at from the highs > noted on DOG from 15.94 to 16.38 to 17. There was a > clear breakout above the 17. To me this looked like > an opportunity to see ROIL go quickly to 21 or > thereabout for a 20% gain in what I was hoping would > be a releatively short time frame. > I am still learning and will certainly take your > advice of watching and obeying the 8% sell rule. > Steve > > --- Tom Worley wrote: > > Steve, > > > > The first comment I would offer is why were you so > > determined to > > buy an oil related stock with a consensus forecast > > of a decline > > in earnings this year of 3%, and an additional > > decline next year > > of 24%. That violates CANSLIM right there. The > > further comment I > > would offer is the lack of a decent chart pattern. > > Honestly, this > > stock has been so volatile that I cannot see a base > > pattern of > > any kind, thus would have no clue what to use as a > > pivot or buy > > point. > > > > And today's market was exceptionally volatile, > > compared to recent > > weeks, which necessitated some closer attention to > > open orders > > close to execution. > > > > Because of the high volume today, the lack of a good > > chart > > pattern suggesting an imminent b/o, and the > > volatility since > > early Feb without significant price appreciation, I > > would suspect > > that large holders have been using every rally as an > > exit > > opportunity. > > > > I would stick to an 8% stop loss max, and hope that > > tomorrow or > > some future day will present you with a rally where > > you can > > consider exiting without damage. But I would not let > > this one > > fall too much further before exiting. > > > > Tom Worley > > stkguru@netside.net > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve F > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 10:10 PM > > Subject: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? > > > > > > I have had ROIL on my watch list, liked the way it > > was > > breaking out yesterday, so I put in a limit order at > > 18 today but too late. It ran up so I left my order > > in thinking I just might be lucky to get it on a dip > > during the day. Checking back later in the day, > > ROIL passed through my 18, which triggered my buy > > and > > ended up at 17.21, a 4.3% loss. > > > > How should I have handled this? > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > > prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email > > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your > > email. > > > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email > > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your > email. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:32:56 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: big cap stock du jour (was Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?) John, I see this frequently in my small and micro caps. They do their best work on days when the Naz is flat or slightly down. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Cefaloni, John L Jr. [AMSTA-AR-WEA] To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? In fact, there are times I swear people are selling my small or mid-sized stock to catch the latest big cap wave du jour. Ever get that feeling? - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:40:00 -0400 From: "Hugh Fader" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] COCO pullback Groupmate also APOL fell dropped quite a bit today. I wonder if one is moving in sympathy with the other. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dave Rubin Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:08 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] COCO pullback COCO fell on somewhat lower volume today. It did not violate the pivot. IBD ratings are perfect for this stock (99 99 AAA). Perhaps it is just taking a break before it bolts higher, giving us another chance to get it. I'm in. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:40:43 -0400 From: "Hugh Fader" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] What did I do wrong? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0DF11.A50FFB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RE: [CANSLIM] What did I do wrong?Margin? -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dempsey, Chris Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 4:15 PM To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] What did I do wrong? How can you be down 117%? -----Original Message----- From: Bill Serry [mailto:ichiban454@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 3:00 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? I was up 102% from May 5, 1999 through mid-February 00.' Down 117% from mid-February 00' through end of March 01' I was not following CANSLIM principles exclusively. - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0DF11.A50FFB60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [CANSLIM] What did I do wrong?

Margin?

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dempsey,=20 Chris
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 4:15 PM
To:=20 'canslim@lists.xmission.com'
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] What did = I do=20 wrong?

How can you be down 117%?

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill=20 Serry [mailto:ichiban454@earthlink.net<= /A>]=20
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 3:00 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re:=20 [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?

I was up 102% from May 5, 1999 through mid-February = 00.' =20 Down 117% from
mid-February 00' through end = of March=20 01' I was not following CANSLIM
principles=20 exclusively.

- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0DF11.A50FFB60-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:44:54 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0DF12.3A7AB6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high"more than I care to admit! Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DiFabio, Nancy=20 To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:13 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" GOLLY-GEE, Tom, is there anything you don't know?=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Tom Worley [mailto:stkguru@netside.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:07 PM=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high"=20 "does it ever not have a minus sign" - yes, when it=20 closes at a new 12 month high. Then it's zero percentage.=20 It simply measures the distance in percentage from the 12 month=20 high. That high is ground zero, everything else is a minus.=20 Tom Worley=20 stkguru@netside.net=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ann Hollingworth =20 To: CANSLIM Listserv =20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 6:09 PM=20 Subject: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high"=20 On the investors.com charts, it says above the chart, for=20 example, "-7% off=20 52-week high".=20 To me, an English major, putting a negative sign before the=20 percentage off=20 the high implies that it is actually above the high. Do you all=20 agree? (It's=20 like a double negative.)=20 If it is 7% below the high, it should say "7% off 52-week high".=20 Does it ever NOT have a minus sign?=20 Ann=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0DF12.3A7AB6E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high"

more than I care to admit!

Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 DiFabio,=20 Nancy

To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' =

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 = 8:13=20 PM

Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] "off = 52-week=20 high"

GOLLY-GEE, Tom, is there anything you don't = know?

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom=20 Worley [mailto:stkguru@netside.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:07 PM =
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] "off 52-week high" =

"does it ever not have a minus = sign" =20 - yes, when it
closes at=20 a new 12 month high. Then it's zero percentage.

It simply measures the distance in percentage from = the 12=20 month
high. That high is ground zero, = everything else=20 is a minus.

Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net=20

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann=20 Hollingworth <annholly@mediaone.net>
To: CANSLIM=20 Listserv <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent:=20 Thursday, May 17, 2001 6:09 PM
Subject: = [CANSLIM] "off=20 52-week high"

On the investors.com charts, it says above the = chart,=20 for
example, "-7% off
52-week=20 high".

To me, an English major, putting a negative sign = before=20 the
percentage off
the high=20 implies that it is actually above the high. Do you all =
agree? (It's
like a double = negative.)=20

If it is 7% below the high, it should say "7% off = 52-week=20 high".

Does it ever NOT have a minus sign?

Ann

- ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0DF12.3A7AB6E0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:43:44 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C0DF12.11188980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?No, the 50 DMA might well be a = support level, but a base is a base, it's where other investors were = willing to buy or sell, not just a numerical average on a scale. When multiple institutionals select a base as their buy point, the price = can become unbreakable as they accumulate shares, regardless of whatever = "M" may decide to do at the time. And most institutionals are chart = readers (read about Jack Dreyfus and the Dreyfus Fund, Ch. 10, HTMMIS). Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DiFabio, Nancy=20 To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? Tom,=20 Would "the support level of a well established base" be its 50 day = M.A.?=20 Nancy=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Tom Worley [mailto:stkguru@netside.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:02 PM=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?=20 Anna,=20 WON's rules of not moving your original stop loss point up (entry=20 minus 8%) until you are up at least 15%, then using a trailing=20 stop loss of 15% thereafter, and of holding a stock that moves up=20 20% for at least 8 weeks, are designed to hold us in a stock long=20 enough to enjoy the benefits of that rare big winner.=20 While I violated a lot of rules in holding EPIQ for well over a=20 year, I will give you three recent examples that argue against=20 what you write:=20 2/28/01 - gained 17% for the day, had you sold at the high of the=20 day, you would have missed an additional 84% gain to today (and,=20 of course, whoever bot your shares potentially made that gain)=20 4/4/01-4/5/01 - gained 17% in two days, from the high to today is=20 an add'l 35% gain=20 5/3/01 - gained 15% that day, now it is another 11.6% higher from=20 the high of that day=20 I have had many occasions and stocks over the past decade plus of=20 trying to apply CANSLIM and WON rules where I violated the=20 selling guidelines. In some cases I held after a moderate profit,=20 and later accepted a loss. In other cases, tho, I sold too soon=20 and missed a big advance, thinking taking the fast 20 or 30 or=20 even 50% profit made sense. And it always did at the time I did=20 it. The first time I bot EPIQ, I sold after only 7 weeks, for a=20 70% net gain. It was the right decision for me at the time, and=20 made sense.=20 If I feel I am premature in buying a stock, and it surprises me=20 by "moving too fast", then I am more likely to say thank you and=20 sell. If I was lucky enough to buy it just right, as it broke out=20 of a quality CANSLIM type formation, then I try to hang on to it.=20 For me, what CANSLIM does is to improve (provide??)=20 predictability. So long as the stock is moving in what I deem to=20 be a predictable fashion, then I stay with it. This includes a=20 premature b/o that falls back and holds at the support level of a=20 well established base.=20 Tom Worley=20 stkguru@netside.net=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: =20 To: =20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 12:32 PM=20 Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?=20 I have another note/question on this topic.=20 It dawned upon me today that maybe my (our?) expectations are too=20 high.=20 For instance, if a stock went up 15% it does not even occur to me=20 to take=20 profits. 20% is only a reason to tighten my stop loss.=20 Another example: COCO goes up from 45 to 52 in two days. I got=20 in at 47+=20 and at 51 did not think that maybe I should sell. Now it is down=20 to 47 and=20 I am surprised. But should I be surprised? It went up over 15%=20 in a=20 couple of days and there are enough people out there who will=20 take profit=20 under these circumstances. Should I not have sold at 51=20 EXPECTING a=20 pullback? The times when a stock moved up 15% in two days=20 without giving=20 anything back are gone. Maybe, if I am lucky to catch a move=20 like that, I=20 should sell and get back in when the expected weakness/pullback=20 develops.=20 I am tired of getting 12-15% gains to come back down to the point=20 where I=20 sell to break even or to loose commisions.=20 Any thoughts?=20 Anna=20 "Rick Parsons" @lists.xmission.com=20 on=20 05/17/2001 12:17:41 PM=20 Please respond to canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent by: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 To: =20 cc:=20 Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?=20 Have most of your losses taken place since the bear market=20 started in March=20 of 2000?=20 How did you folks do prior to the beginning of the bear market?=20 Rick=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Cefaloni,=20 John L=20 Jr. [AMSTA-AR-WEA]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:04 AM=20 To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com'=20 Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?=20 Steve,=20 I'm sure someone will find something technically wrong with the=20 stock, but=20 in the meantime, don't beat yourself up. If I dug through my=20 records,=20 which=20 I won't do because it will be too heartbreaking, I could show you=20 lots of=20 examples where I got burned the same way. I bought many CANSLIM=20 breakouts=20 that shook me out with an 8% loss and then would invariably go on=20 to make=20 new highs. This has happened to me more time than I care to=20 admit. To=20 make=20 matter worse, a close friend, who often buys the same stocks,=20 will sit out=20 the pullback and then reap the profits of the gains that follow.=20 That is=20 really painful.=20 Anyway, you're not alone.=20 John C.=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Steve F [mailto:stevepdv@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 9:34 AM=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?=20 My reasons for buying ROIL were, the current CANSLIM=20 fundamentals are very good - growing sales, earnings,=20 industry group, acc/dist, timeliness. The technical=20 reasons were the breakout of a trendline that I have=20 been following. I set my trend line at from the highs=20 noted on DOG from 15.94 to 16.38 to 17. There was a=20 clear breakout above the 17. To me this looked like=20 an opportunity to see ROIL go quickly to 21 or=20 thereabout for a 20% gain in what I was hoping would=20 be a releatively short time frame.=20 I am still learning and will certainly take your=20 advice of watching and obeying the 8% sell rule.=20 Steve=20 --- Tom Worley wrote:=20 > Steve,=20 >=20 > The first comment I would offer is why were you so=20 > determined to=20 > buy an oil related stock with a consensus forecast=20 > of a decline=20 > in earnings this year of 3%, and an additional=20 > decline next year=20 > of 24%. That violates CANSLIM right there. The=20 > further comment I=20 > would offer is the lack of a decent chart pattern.=20 > Honestly, this=20 > stock has been so volatile that I cannot see a base=20 > pattern of=20 > any kind, thus would have no clue what to use as a=20 > pivot or buy=20 > point.=20 >=20 > And today's market was exceptionally volatile,=20 > compared to recent=20 > weeks, which necessitated some closer attention to=20 > open orders=20 > close to execution.=20 >=20 > Because of the high volume today, the lack of a good=20 > chart=20 > pattern suggesting an imminent b/o, and the=20 > volatility since=20 > early Feb without significant price appreciation, I=20 > would suspect=20 > that large holders have been using every rally as an=20 > exit=20 > opportunity.=20 >=20 > I would stick to an 8% stop loss max, and hope that=20 > tomorrow or=20 > some future day will present you with a rally where=20 > you can=20 > consider exiting without damage. But I would not let=20 > this one=20 > fall too much further before exiting.=20 >=20 > Tom Worley=20 > stkguru@netside.net=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Steve F =20 > To: =20 > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 10:10 PM=20 > Subject: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?=20 >=20 >=20 > I have had ROIL on my watch list, liked the way it=20 > was=20 > breaking out yesterday, so I put in a limit order at=20 > 18 today but too late. It ran up so I left my order=20 > in thinking I just might be lucky to get it on a dip=20 > during the day. Checking back later in the day,=20 > ROIL passed through my 18, which triggered my buy=20 > and=20 > ended up at 17.21, a 4.3% loss.=20 >=20 > How should I have handled this?=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________=20 > Do You Yahoo!?=20 > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great=20 > prices=20 > http://auctions.yahoo.com/=20 >=20 > -=20 > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 > "majordomo@xmission.com"=20 > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or=20 > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your=20 > email.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -=20 > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 > "majordomo@xmission.com"=20 > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or=20 > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your=20 email.=20 __________________________________________________=20 Do You Yahoo!?=20 Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices=20 http://auctions.yahoo.com/=20 -=20 -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or=20 -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.=20 -=20 -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or=20 -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.=20 -=20 -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or=20 -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.=20 -=20 -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or=20 -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.=20 -=20 -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or=20 -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.=20 "WorldSecure " made the following annotations on 05/17/01 17:10:43 = - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- PLEASE NOTE: This message, including any attachments, may include = privileged, confidential and/or inside information. Any distribution or = use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) = is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then = delete it from your system. Thank you. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D - ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C0DF12.11188980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?

No, the 50 DMA might well be a support level, but a = base is a=20 base, it's where other investors were willing to buy or sell, not just a = numerical average on a scale.

When multiple institutionals select a base as their = buy point,=20 the price can become unbreakable as they accumulate shares, regardless = of=20 whatever "M" may decide to do at the time. And most institutionals are = chart=20 readers (read about Jack Dreyfus and the Dreyfus Fund, Ch. 10,=20 HTMMIS).

Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 DiFabio,=20 Nancy

To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' =

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 = 8:11=20 PM

Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL = What did I do=20 wrong?

Tom,

Would "the support level of a well established base" = be its 50=20 day M.A.?

Nancy

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom=20 Worley [mailto:stkguru@netside.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:02 PM =
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do = wrong?=20

Anna,

WON's rules of not moving your original stop loss = point up=20 (entry
minus 8%) until you are up at least = 15%, then=20 using a trailing
stop loss of 15% = thereafter, and of=20 holding a stock that moves up
20% for at = least 8=20 weeks, are designed to hold us in a stock long
enough=20 to enjoy the benefits of that rare big winner.

While I violated a lot of rules in holding EPIQ for = well over=20 a
year, I will give you three recent = examples that=20 argue against
what you write:

2/28/01 - gained 17% for the day, had you sold at = the high of=20 the
day, you would have missed an additional = 84% gain=20 to today (and,
of course, whoever bot your = shares=20 potentially made that gain)
4/4/01-4/5/01 - = gained 17%=20 in two days, from the high to today is
an = add'l 35%=20 gain
5/3/01 - gained 15% that day, now it is = another=20 11.6% higher from
the high of that = day

I have had many occasions and stocks over the past = decade plus=20 of
trying to apply CANSLIM and WON rules = where I=20 violated the
selling guidelines. In some = cases I held=20 after a moderate profit,
and later accepted = a loss. In=20 other cases, tho, I sold too soon
and missed = a big=20 advance, thinking taking the fast 20 or 30 or
even 50%=20 profit made sense. And it always did at the time I did =
it. The first time I bot EPIQ, I sold after only 7 weeks, for = a=20
70% net gain. It was the right decision for me at = the time,=20 and
made sense.

If I feel I am premature in buying a stock, and it = surprises=20 me
by "moving too fast", then I am more = likely to say=20 thank you and
sell. If I was lucky enough to = buy it=20 just right, as it broke out
of a quality = CANSLIM type=20 formation, then I try to hang on to it.
For = me, what=20 CANSLIM does is to improve (provide??)
predictability.=20 So long as the stock is moving in what I deem to
be a=20 predictable fashion, then I stay with it. This includes a =
premature b/o that falls back and holds at the support level = of=20 a
well established base.

Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net=20

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 <asosis@ca.ibm.com>
To:=20 <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: = Thursday, May=20 17, 2001 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = ROIL What did=20 I do wrong?

I have another note/question on this topic. =
It dawned upon me today that maybe my (our?) expectations are = too
high.
For = instance, if a=20 stock went up 15% it does not even occur to me
to=20 take
profits. 20% is only a reason to = tighten my=20 stop loss.
Another example: COCO goes up = from 45 to 52=20 in two days. I got
in at 47+ =
and at 51 did not think that maybe I should sell. Now = it is=20 down
to 47 and
I = am=20 surprised. But should I be surprised? It went up over = 15%=20
in a
couple of days and = there are=20 enough people out there who will
take = profit=20
under these circumstances. Should I not have = sold at=20 51
EXPECTING a
pullback? =20 The times when a stock moved up 15% in two days
without giving
anything back are = gone. =20 Maybe, if I am lucky to catch a move
like = that,=20 I
should sell and get back in when the = expected=20 weakness/pullback
develops.

I am tired of getting 12-15% gains to come back down = to the=20 point
where I
sell = to break=20 even or to loose commisions.

Any thoughts?

Anna

"Rick Parsons"=20 <RickParsons@Columbus.rr.com>@lists.xmission.com =
on
05/17/2001 12:17:41 PM =

Please respond to canslim@lists.xmission.com =

Sent by: = owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20

To: = <canslim@lists.xmission.com>=20
cc:
Subject: RE: = [CANSLIM] ROIL=20 What did I do wrong?

Have most of your losses taken place since the bear=20 market
started in March
of=20 2000?
How did you folks do prior to the = beginning of=20 the bear market?

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lis= ts.xmission.com]On=20 Behalf Of Cefaloni,
John L
Jr.=20 [AMSTA-AR-WEA]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 = 10:04=20 AM
To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' =
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? =

Steve,

I'm sure someone will find something technically = wrong with=20 the
stock, but
in = the=20 meantime, don't beat yourself up. If I dug through my =
records,
which
I won't=20 do because it will be too heartbreaking, I could show you =
lots of
examples where I got burned = the same=20 way. I bought many CANSLIM
breakouts=20
that shook me out with an 8% loss and then would = invariably=20 go on
to make
new = highs. =20 This has happened to me more time than I care to
admit. To
make =
matter worse, a close friend, who often buys the same = stocks,=20
will sit out
the pullback = and then=20 reap the profits of the gains that follow.
That=20 is
really painful.

Anyway, you're not alone.

John C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve=20 F [mailto:stevepdv@yahoo.com] =
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 9:34 AM =
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re:=20 [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong?

My reasons for buying ROIL were, the current = CANSLIM=20
fundamentals are very good - growing sales, = earnings,=20
industry group, acc/dist, timeliness. = The=20 technical
reasons were the breakout of a = trendline=20 that I have
been following. I set my = trend line=20 at from the highs
noted on DOG from 15.94 to = 16.38 to=20 17. There was a
clear breakout above = the=20 17. To me this looked like
an = opportunity to see=20 ROIL go quickly to 21 or
thereabout for a = 20% gain in=20 what I was hoping would
be a releatively = short time=20 frame.
I am still learning and will = certainly take=20 your
advice of watching and obeying the 8% = sell=20 rule.
Steve

--- Tom Worley <stkguru@netside.net> = wrote:=20
> Steve,
> =
> The first comment I would offer is why were you = so=20
> determined to
> = buy an oil=20 related stock with a consensus forecast
> = of a=20 decline
> in earnings this year of 3%, = and an=20 additional
> decline next year =
> of 24%. That violates CANSLIM right there. The =
> further comment I
> would = offer is the=20 lack of a decent chart pattern.
> = Honestly,=20 this
> stock has been so volatile that I = cannot see=20 a base
> pattern of
>=20 any kind, thus would have no clue what to use as a
> pivot or buy
> = point.
>
> And today's market was = exceptionally=20 volatile,
> compared to recent =
> weeks, which necessitated some closer attention = to=20
> open orders
> = close to=20 execution.
>
> Because=20 of the high volume today, the lack of a good
>=20 chart
> pattern suggesting an imminent = b/o, and=20 the
> volatility since
>=20 early Feb without significant price appreciation, I
> would suspect
> that large = holders have=20 been using every rally as an
> = exit=20
> opportunity.
>=20
> I would stick to an 8% stop loss max, and hope = that
> tomorrow or
>=20 some future day will present you with a rally where
> you can
> consider exiting = without=20 damage. But I would not let
> this = one=20
> fall too much further before exiting. =
>
> Tom Worley =
> stkguru@netside.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message = - -----=20
> From: Steve F = <stevepdv@yahoo.com>=20
> To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> =
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 10:10 PM
> Subject: [CANSLIM] ROIL What did I do wrong? =
>
>
> I have=20 had ROIL on my watch list, liked the way it
>=20 was
> breaking out yesterday, so I put in = a limit=20 order at
> 18 today but too late. = It ran up=20 so I left my order
> in thinking I just = might be=20 lucky to get it on a dip
> during the=20 day. Checking back later in the day, =
> ROIL passed through my 18, which triggered my buy =
> and
> ended up at 17.21, a = 4.3%=20 loss.
>
> = How should I=20 have handled this?
>
>=20 __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! = Auctions - buy=20 the things you want at great
> = prices=20
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
> -
> -To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email
>=20 "majordomo@xmission.com"
> -In the email = body,=20 write "subscribe canslim" or
> = - -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your
>=20 email.
>
>=20
>
> - =
> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email
>=20 "majordomo@xmission.com"
> -In the email = body,=20 write "subscribe canslim" or
> = - -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your
email.

__________________________________________________=20
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! = Auctions - buy=20 the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

-
-To = subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In the email body, = write=20 "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim". =20 Do not use quotes in your email.

"WorldSecure <irell.com>" made the following
annotations = on=20 05/17/01=20 = 17:10:43
-------------------------------------------------------------= - -----------------
PLEASE=20 NOTE: This message, including any attachments, may include privileged, = confidential and/or inside information. Any distribution or use of = this=20 communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is = strictly=20 prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, = please=20 notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from = your=20 system. Thank=20 = you.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

- ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C0DF12.11188980-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #1379 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.