From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #1609 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Wednesday, August 15 2001 Volume 02 : Number 1609 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL Re: [CANSLIM] DSL Re: [CANSLIM] DSL Re: [CANSLIM] DSL Re: [CANSLIM] DSL-cash flow Re: [CANSLIM] cprt Re: [CANSLIM] Gaps was: DSL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:36:50 -0600 From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL Um, can I ask when you guys got into DSL? I'm guessing you bot the "handle" at 56.38 or so. Is this correct? FWIW, today's volume exceeded the strong day in July, and is the strongest volume since January. That was also a bad day. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:45:54 -0600 From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL I don't believe WON talked about "filling gaps" in either of his books or in the paper. Other discussions here have shown a difference of opinion on the importance of this. I also don't know of any WON examples of cup within a cup, or base within a base. This is new to me also. Tom? Yes, I believe WON says longer cups are preferable, and he also says deeper cups can be more failure prone. Overall, I would suspect "M" right now. At 09:02 PM 8/14/01 -0400, you wrote: > To Tom and others, I have a couple of questions about this. First of >all, can someone explain to me about filling the gap? How can you tell >when the gap has been filled? Do you look at both price and volume? >Also, does the cup formation apply to both the larger cup (using the >all-time high as the left rim) and the smaller cups within that larger >cup?? I had been considering the long cup, starting in December. I >thought WON said that the longer the cup, the better. Thanks everyone, >Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Worley To: >canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:37 PM >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > Hi Perry, Ann, et al, with my 2 cents, and perfect 20-20 >hindsight. First, I have a personal aversion to cup and handle >formations that take too long, in this case about 7.5 months if you use the >60 and change high from late last Dec. If you do use that, then you must >also note the gap down that occurred in late Jan of nearly 20%. To me, >that puts a serious "crack" in the cup. And more than likely that gap >down will have to be filled in first. Second, with the gap down >having taken all bets off the table, I see a shallower cup with the left >rim at 50 in early Feb, and the right rim at 49.50 in mid-June. That >means the flat base that formed after that becomes a 3 week handle, >mostly on light volume. That didn't fill in the gap down, but the heavy >volume on 7/16, followed by the nearly as heavy volume with a big price >gain on 7/17 did fill in the gap, and provided an entry point. If >you bot into the heavy volume on 7/16, then the worst you did was a >price of 51.50, and by the time it broke 60 on 8/1, could be already >using a 15% trailing stop. That would put your stop somewhere around 51, >which after today's close is still not threatened, but does risk >stopping you out for a break even if the decline continues. If you >waited for the gap to fill on 7/17, then more likely you would be still >using an 8% trailing stop, which would be even lower. Viewed this >way, the drop from 50 to 38.82 is about a 25% drop to the bottom of the >cup when measured as a percent of the rim price. But as I recall my >training, WON measures it as a percentage of the give back of the prior >leg leading up to the left rim. I see that leg up going from about 32.50 >to just over 60, or about 28 points. But measuring that way, you really >should be measuring from the original "left rim" of just over 60. But >that's difficult to do because the gap down messes it all up. If you try >to combine these two methods, then the nearly 12 point drop from 50 >approaches 50% of the leg up, but WON did indicate that is acceptable in >a bear market. For me, had I been watching it, the gap down would >likely have taken it off my radar until a cleaner, and clearer, pattern >was developed. Just another reason I tend to only look at the past six >months when studying the chart alone. Tom Worley >stkguru@netside.net >AIM: TexWorley > > > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:46:11 -0400 From: "Ann Hollingworth" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL I got in around 57, unfortunately. Ann Have to decide whether to bail out tomorrow a.m. I'm down about 2% (at the close today). - ----- Original Message ----- From: "esetser" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > Um, can I ask when you guys got into DSL? I'm guessing you bot the > "handle" at 56.38 or so. Is this correct? > > FWIW, today's volume exceeded the strong day in July, and is the strongest > volume since January. That was also a bad day. > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:48:50 -0400 From: "Ann Hollingworth" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL I knew M was bad. Because I'm a teacher, I only have another week when I can actively trade. Just couldn't help myself! I thought all that volume on the r-side of cup was positive. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "esetser" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > I don't believe WON talked about "filling gaps" in either of his books or > in the paper. Other discussions here have shown a difference of opinion on > the importance of this. > > I also don't know of any WON examples of cup within a cup, or base within a > base. This is new to me also. Tom? > > Yes, I believe WON says longer cups are preferable, and he also says deeper > cups can be more failure prone. > > Overall, I would suspect "M" right now. > > At 09:02 PM 8/14/01 -0400, you wrote: > > To Tom and others, I have a couple of questions about this. First of > >all, can someone explain to me about filling the gap? How can you tell > >when the gap has been filled? Do you look at both price and volume? > >Also, does the cup formation apply to both the larger cup (using the > >all-time high as the left rim) and the smaller cups within that larger > >cup?? I had been considering the long cup, starting in December. I > >thought WON said that the longer the cup, the better. Thanks everyone, > >Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Worley To: > >canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:37 PM > >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > Hi Perry, Ann, et al, with my 2 cents, and perfect 20-20 > >hindsight. First, I have a personal aversion to cup and handle > >formations that take too long, in this case about 7.5 months if you use the > >60 and change high from late last Dec. If you do use that, then you must > >also note the gap down that occurred in late Jan of nearly 20%. To me, > >that puts a serious "crack" in the cup. And more than likely that gap > >down will have to be filled in first. Second, with the gap down > >having taken all bets off the table, I see a shallower cup with the left > >rim at 50 in early Feb, and the right rim at 49.50 in mid-June. That > >means the flat base that formed after that becomes a 3 week handle, > >mostly on light volume. That didn't fill in the gap down, but the heavy > >volume on 7/16, followed by the nearly as heavy volume with a big price > >gain on 7/17 did fill in the gap, and provided an entry point. If > >you bot into the heavy volume on 7/16, then the worst you did was a > >price of 51.50, and by the time it broke 60 on 8/1, could be already > >using a 15% trailing stop. That would put your stop somewhere around 51, > >which after today's close is still not threatened, but does risk > >stopping you out for a break even if the decline continues. If you > >waited for the gap to fill on 7/17, then more likely you would be still > >using an 8% trailing stop, which would be even lower. Viewed this > >way, the drop from 50 to 38.82 is about a 25% drop to the bottom of the > >cup when measured as a percent of the rim price. But as I recall my > >training, WON measures it as a percentage of the give back of the prior > >leg leading up to the left rim. I see that leg up going from about 32.50 > >to just over 60, or about 28 points. But measuring that way, you really > >should be measuring from the original "left rim" of just over 60. But > >that's difficult to do because the gap down messes it all up. If you try > >to combine these two methods, then the nearly 12 point drop from 50 > >approaches 50% of the leg up, but WON did indicate that is acceptable in > >a bear market. For me, had I been watching it, the gap down would > >likely have taken it off my radar until a cleaner, and clearer, pattern > >was developed. Just another reason I tend to only look at the past six > >months when studying the chart alone. Tom Worley > >stkguru@netside.net > >AIM: TexWorley > > > > > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:57:06 EDT From: BIKEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL-cash flow - --part1_119.3318a5e.28abbd92_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit with DSL having a cash flow of $4.49 and a 0 Debt...I have found very few stock with that large of a cash flow...explain someone..thanks - --part1_119.3318a5e.28abbd92_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit with DSL having a cash flow of $4.49 and a 0 Debt...I have found very few
stock with that large of a cash flow...explain someone..thanks - --part1_119.3318a5e.28abbd92_boundary-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:21:56 EDT From: BIKEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] cprt - --part1_11a.32679e4.28abc364_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is the p.p. $23.85...I think that this stock has good fundamentals...hope to hear - --part1_11a.32679e4.28abc364_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is the p.p. $23.85...I think that this stock has good fundamentals...hope to
hear - --part1_11a.32679e4.28abc364_boundary-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:25:23 -0400 From: "Drewcorp" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Gaps was: DSL This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C12574.97C097E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0022_01C12574.97C097E0" - ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01C12574.97C097E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since we are on the topic of filling a gap, I thought this may be = of interest. I realize that in this situation WON is talking about gaps up, = where in DSL's case it was a gap down in the base.=20 =20 Andy Johnson raj@drewcorp.com Ask Bill O'Neil Archives Friday, June 22, 2001=20 =20 William J. O'Neil Chairman & Founder Investor's Business Daily=20 "I hesitate to buy stocks that have gapped up because I've heard = gaps eventually are "closed." Should this keep me from an otherwise good = breakout? "=20 - Submitted from New Orleans, La. =20 =20 A stock does not have to fill its gap. Some of the strongest = stocks will gap up in price and never fill their gap. (By gap, we mean a = situation in which a stock's low for the day is a distance above the = prior day's high. If you look at the stock's chart, that leaves a gap = between the price bars.) If the stock is in a strong industry group with = top fundamentals and technicals then breaks out on sound volume, it = should be bought regardless of whether it filled its gap. =20 =20 Ask Bill O'Neil a Question!=20 =20 View the Ask Bill O'Neil Archives=20 =20 View Bill O'Neil's Most Frequently Asked Qustions=20 =20 Learn Bill O'Neil's successful market strategy in his best selling = book, How to Make Money in Stocks and in his latest book, 24 Essential = Lessons for Investment Success. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Worley=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL Hi Ann, Guess no one is still awake and on the net, so will respond. Filling the gap (be it a gap up or down) is a fairly predictable = pattern for chartists. It simply means that a chart with a measurable = gap will, over time, be more likely to see trading within that gap, thus = filling it in. On DSL, I consider it a positive that a gap down was = filled with decisive volume. If I owned a stock that gapped up on = volume, and put me into a nice profit, then I would be inclined to sell = it on the first sign of weakness, expecting it to trade lower and fill = in the gap. Of course, a lot would depend on my interpretation of just = why it gapped up in the first place. On a gap down, shame on me for still owning it, I should have exited = immediately and not waited around for months, or even a year or more, = for that gap down to get filled on the way back up. As to whether volume = is needed to properly fill a gap, I think you do want heavy volume when = filling a prior gap down. A gap up is better filled by extremely light = volume. And, of course, a gap up created by a buyout announcement is = best never filled. On whether or not to look at the longer or shorter time period for = charts, I miss the Maroon Books I used to get from O'Neil and Company (2 = charts per page on an 11X14 inch sheet, weekly charts on a log scale). I = always felt that I got a better picture of the chart formation then (one = reason I am anxious for the new beta version of DGO). However, it has = been nearly a decade since I looked regularly at them, and the times = have changed. With the greatly increased volatility these days, I am not = sure I would be willing to watch a stock for a year or two to see = confirmation of a particular pattern. I think a lot of this is much like = CANSLIM, or investing in general. Just a matter of personal = interpretation and what is most comfortable to you (and makes the most = sense). Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ann Hollingworth=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL To Tom and others, I have a couple of questions about this. First of all, can someone explain to me about filling the gap? How = can you tell when the gap has been filled? Do you look at both price and = volume? Also, does the cup formation apply to both the larger cup (using the = all-time high as the left rim) and the smaller cups within that larger = cup??=20 I had been considering the long cup, starting in December. I thought = WON said that the longer the cup, the better. Thanks everyone, Ann ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Worley=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL Hi Perry, Ann, et al, Thought I'd wade in with my 2 cents, and perfect 20-20 hindsight. First, I have a personal aversion to cup and handle formations = that take too long, in this case about 7.5 months if you use the 60 and = change high from late last Dec. If you do use that, then you must also = note the gap down that occurred in late Jan of nearly 20%. To me, that = puts a serious "crack" in the cup. And more than likely that gap down = will have to be filled in first. Second, with the gap down having taken all bets off the table, I = see a shallower cup with the left rim at 50 in early Feb, and the right = rim at 49.50 in mid-June. That means the flat base that formed after = that becomes a 3 week handle, mostly on light volume. That didn't fill = in the gap down, but the heavy volume on 7/16, followed by the nearly as = heavy volume with a big price gain on 7/17 did fill in the gap, and = provided an entry point. If you bot into the heavy volume on 7/16, then the worst you did = was a price of 51.50, and by the time it broke 60 on 8/1, could be = already using a 15% trailing stop. That would put your stop somewhere = around 51, which after today's close is still not threatened, but does = risk stopping you out for a break even if the decline continues. If you = waited for the gap to fill on 7/17, then more likely you would be still = using an 8% trailing stop, which would be even lower. Viewed this way, the drop from 50 to 38.82 is about a 25% drop to = the bottom of the cup when measured as a percent of the rim price. But = as I recall my training, WON measures it as a percentage of the give = back of the prior leg leading up to the left rim. I see that leg up = going from about 32.50 to just over 60, or about 28 points. But = measuring that way, you really should be measuring from the original = "left rim" of just over 60. But that's difficult to do because the gap = down messes it all up. If you try to combine these two methods, then the = nearly 12 point drop from 50 approaches 50% of the leg up, but WON did = indicate that is acceptable in a bear market. For me, had I been watching it, the gap down would likely have = taken it off my radar until a cleaner, and clearer, pattern was = developed. Just another reason I tend to only look at the past six = months when studying the chart alone. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley - ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01C12574.97C097E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Since we are on the topic of filling a = gap, I=20 thought this may be of interest.
 
I realize that in this situation WON is = talking about=20 gaps up, where in DSL's case it was a gap down in the=20 base.
 
Andy Johnson
raj@drewcorp.com
 
 
 
Ask Bill O'Neil Archives
Friday,=20 June  22, 2001
 		 3D"William
William J. = O'Neil
Chairman &=20 Founder
Investor's Business Daily
"I hesitate to buy stocks that have gapped up because = I've heard=20 gaps eventually are "closed." Should this keep me from an = otherwise good=20 breakout? "
-=20 Submitted from
New Orleans, La.
 
A stock does not have to fill its gap. Some of the = strongest=20 stocks will gap up in price and never fill their gap. (By gap, we = mean a=20 situation in which a stock's low for the day is a distance above = the prior=20 day's high. If you look at the stock's chart, that leaves a gap = between=20 the price bars.) If the stock is in a strong industry group with = top=20 fundamentals and technicals then breaks out on sound volume, it = should be=20 bought regardless of whether it filled its gap.
Ask Bill O'Neil a=20 Question!
 
View the Ask = Bill=20 O'Neil Archives
 
View Bill O'Neil's Most = Frequently=20 Asked Qustions
 

Learn Bill O'Neil's successful market strategy in his best = selling=20 book, How to Make Money in Stocks and in his latest book, 24 = Essential=20 Lessons for Investment = Success.

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom = Worley=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 = 10:03=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = DSL

Hi Ann,
 
Guess no one is still awake and on the net, so = will=20 respond.
 
Filling the gap (be it a gap up or down) is a = fairly=20 predictable pattern for chartists. It simply means that a chart with a = measurable gap will, over time, be more likely to see trading within = that gap,=20 thus filling it in. On DSL, I consider it a positive that a gap down = was=20 filled with decisive volume. If I owned a stock that gapped up on = volume, and=20 put me into a nice profit, then I would be inclined to sell it on the = first=20 sign of weakness, expecting it to trade lower and fill in the gap. Of = course,=20 a lot would depend on my interpretation of just why it gapped up in = the first=20 place.
 
On a gap down, shame on me for still owning it, I = should=20 have exited immediately and not waited around for months, or even a = year or=20 more, for that gap down to get filled on the way back up. As to = whether volume=20 is needed to properly fill a gap, I think you do want heavy volume = when=20 filling a prior gap down. A gap up is better filled by extremely light = volume.=20 And, of course, a gap up created by a buyout announcement is best = never=20 filled.
 
On whether or not to look at the longer or shorter = time=20 period for charts, I miss the Maroon Books I used to get from O'Neil = and=20 Company (2 charts per page on an 11X14 inch sheet, weekly charts on a = log=20 scale). I always felt that I got a better picture of the chart = formation then=20 (one reason I am anxious for the new beta version of DGO). However, it = has=20 been nearly a decade since I looked regularly at them, and the times = have=20 changed. With the greatly increased volatility these days, I am not = sure I=20 would be willing to watch a stock for a year or two to see = confirmation of a=20 particular pattern. I think a lot of this is much like CANSLIM, or = investing=20 in general. Just a matter of personal interpretation and what is most=20 comfortable to you (and makes the most sense).
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ann=20 Hollingworth
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, = 2001 9:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = DSL

To Tom and others,
 
I have a couple of questions about = this.
 
First of all, can someone explain to me about = filling the=20 gap? How can you tell when the gap has been filled? Do you look at = both=20 price and volume?
 
Also, does the cup formation apply to both the = larger cup=20 (using the all-time high as the left rim) and the smaller cups = within that=20 larger cup??
 
I had been considering the long cup, starting in = December.=20 I thought WON said that the longer the cup, the better.
 
Thanks everyone,
 
Ann
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Tom=20 Worley
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, = 2001 8:37=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = DSL

Hi Perry, Ann, et al,
 
Thought I'd wade in with my 2 cents, and = perfect=20 20-20 hindsight.
 
First, I have a personal aversion to cup and = handle=20 formations that take too long, in this case about 7.5 months if = you use=20 the 60 and change high from late last Dec. If you do use that, = then you=20 must also note the gap down that occurred in late Jan of nearly = 20%. To=20 me, that puts a serious "crack" in the cup. And more than likely = that gap=20 down will have to be filled in first.
 
Second, with the gap down having taken all = bets off the=20 table, I see a shallower cup with the left rim at 50 in early Feb, = and the=20 right rim at 49.50 in mid-June. That means the flat base that = formed after=20 that becomes a 3 week handle, mostly on light volume. That didn't = fill in=20 the gap down, but the heavy volume on 7/16, followed by the nearly = as=20 heavy volume with a big price gain on 7/17 did fill in the gap, = and=20 provided an entry point.
 
If you bot into the heavy volume on 7/16, then = the worst=20 you did was a price of 51.50, and by the time it broke 60 on 8/1, = could be=20 already using a 15% trailing stop. That would put your stop = somewhere=20 around 51, which after today's close is still not threatened, but = does=20 risk stopping you out for a break even if the decline continues. = If you=20 waited for the gap to fill on 7/17, then more likely you would be = still=20 using an 8% trailing stop, which would be even lower.
 
Viewed this way, the drop from 50 to 38.82 is = about a=20 25% drop to the bottom of the cup when measured as a percent of = the rim=20 price. But as I recall my training, WON measures it as a = percentage of the=20 give back of the prior leg leading up to the left rim. I see that = leg up=20 going from about 32.50 to just over 60, or about 28 points. But = measuring=20 that way, you really should be measuring from the original "left = rim" of=20 just over 60. But that's difficult to do because the gap down = messes it=20 all up. If you try to combine these two methods, then the nearly = 12 point=20 drop from 50 approaches 50% of the leg up, but WON did indicate = that is=20 acceptable in a bear market.
 
For me, had I been watching it, the gap down = would=20 likely have taken it off my radar until a cleaner, and clearer, = pattern=20 was developed. Just another reason I tend to only look at the past = six=20 months when studying the chart alone.
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
 
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