From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #1829 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Monday, November 19 2001 Volume 02 : Number 1829 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers [CANSLIM] RYL Revisited [CANSLIM] How to Make Money or 24 Essential Lessons? [CANSLIM] NVDA Re: [CANSLIM] kkd Re: [CANSLIM] How to Make Money or 24 Essential Lessons? Re: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers Re: [CANSLIM] kkd Re: [CANSLIM] kkd Re: [CANSLIM] kkd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:55:36 +0800 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers Gene, I'll guess a couple of items: (1) The beta for DGO is not yet guaranteeing the accuracy of the data. I've noted this a few times when viewing info between existing DGO and the beta. They're still focusing on features rather than raw data, so that could explain it. (2) Each stock's A/D is an absolute score calculated independently based on A/D action for that particular stock against its own recent action. It is not a relative score as is EPS, GPS, RS. With respect to the percentage A/D's you see in any one list, it will depend on which universe of stocks you're looking at at that time. The A/D listed in the IBD under the DJIA graph is derived from WONDA's IBD6000 index. That's the same one that you can graph under "markets" in DGO and which they track on the Big Picture each day. They look at this "index" as a selected 'total market' view. If you're looking at the DGO beta, you're looking at the entire WONDA database, warts and all, so your percentage A/D will of course be different if you are pulling down all stocks and doing a percent calculation. If you are looking at the existing DGO and exporting data to Excel from the printed DG list, you are only looking at a selection of 2500=2600 stocks. Another universe again. Katherine - -----Original Message----- From: Gene Ricci Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:02:22 -0600 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers > Katherine, your thoughts on why the newspaper doesn't tie to the online (beta) data? > > Gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katherine Malm > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 7:59 AM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers > > > DougC > > At the bottom left of the Big Picture IBD DJIA graphs each day they list a cumulative A/D distribution for the market. That, along with the general A/D ranking for each market, each day at the top left of each graph, gives a nice "feel" for the tone of the market. For example, Monday's paper lists NASDAQ = B, S&P = B, DJIA = C+. That shows a marketed accumluation in overall large caps (S&P) and tech (NASDAQ) vs. the Dow's more "broad based" representation. > > Also today, the distribution is A 658 -19, B 2295 -1, C 1182 -13, D 913 +34, and E 359 + 10. When the market is really moving, you'll see the delta and get a sense whether overall prices are showing accumulation or distribution. Very helpful. > > Katherine > > -----Original Message----- > From: DougC > Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:54:14 -0700 > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers > > > > I don't understand what you mean by 'the data is inconsistent'. Are you > > expecting an even 20% distribution from a to e? The numbers you list > > suggest to me a bias towards buying, or accumulation, in the markets. This > > is the first time I've really looked at the a/d numbers listed this way and > > suddenly find them very interesting. Maybe around Sept. 11 they showed a > > bias towards selling with e and d weighted at 52% or more??? > > > > 6 PM 11/18/01 -0600, you wrote: > > >IBD/DGO numbers are a constant puzzle to me. The following was just taken > > >from the DGO beta. > > >Anyone know why the data is inconsistent? > > > > > >e = 670 > > >d =1299 > > >c = 1595 > > >b = 2957 > > >a = 916 > > > > > >total = 7437 > > > > > >a + b = 3873 > > > > > >% a+b / total = 3873/7437 = 52% > > > > > >Gene > > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: Robert > > >>To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' > > >>Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 7:04 PM > > >>Subject: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers > > >> > > >>Here are the latest Acc/Dis Numbers > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>spread sheet version > > >> > > >>Date,A,B,C,D,E,% of AB/A:E,%E,Market Posture > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>11/8/01,610,2168,1179,992,425,52%,8%,Market in correction > > >>11/9/01,598,2180,1174,1013,405,52%,8%,Market in correction > > >>11/12/01,580,2208,1209,994,387,52%,7%,Market in correction > > >>11/13/01,576,2193,1218,996,383,52%,7%,Market in correction > > >>11/14/01,588,2172,1230,1002,380,51%,7%,Market in correction > > >>11/15/01,659,2250,1205,912,360,54%,7%,Market in correction > > >>11/16/01,677,2296,1195,879,349,55%,6%,Market in correction > > >>11/19/01,658,2295,1182,913,359,55%,7%,Market in correction > > >> > > >>Robert > > > > -- > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > - -- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:21:20 +0800 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: [CANSLIM] RYL Revisited I am not at my own computer today, so do not have access to the original RYL thread, but thought I'd add some info based on today's construction numbers that will provide additional insight to the discussion. Until 11/28, access to the Dismal Scientist (Economy.com) site is free and you will find a very comprehensive overview of today's report and its implications at: http://www.dismal.com/dismal/dsp/release.asp?r=usa_res_constr For those of you who consider yourself econophobes, not to worry, as the info is written without getting bogged down in "econotalk." Katherine - -- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:11:34 -0600 From: "Williams, Bob" Subject: [CANSLIM] How to Make Money or 24 Essential Lessons? I just received copies of "How to Make Money in Stocks" and "24 Essential Lessons for Investment Success," both by Wm. J. O'Neil. Which should I read first? Bob Williams The World's Most Modest Man Nominal Leader of The Wooden Nickel Jass Band http://wnjb.com - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:21:32 -0800 From: Neal Frankle Subject: [CANSLIM] NVDA Does anyone remember a few days ago IBD talking about NVDA and mentioning = something about INTEL entering into competition w/NVDA? Neal - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:25:03 -0800 From: "Nicholas Barone" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] kkd Hi All: Krispy Kreme has been around since 1937 - It's like a Starbucks or a MacDonalds concept etc. - I guess you didn't like those ideas either. They are now just starting to expand. They sell doughnuts and great coffee (really great) - expanding the coffee aspect too!!! The Big factory story makes the doughnuts and sells them - The small compact store would get doughnuts that are not fully baked from the big store and with a smaller machine - glaze them etc. These stories have been around forever in the south and have an installed base of people who are hooked. They are now hooking others - it's entertainment - they are not in big cities but in smaller places near big cities where people live for some kind of destination and entertainment You are missing the big picture - they are making "crazy" money - they have a long established model - it works - the stock goes up - what is your problem - you want to tell the market what to do - ok - but you can lose doing that. This thing has a great chart. Really - what is your problem ?? My 3cents - I upped you a penny. I am sorry Tom but your analogy is not the same As that the big stores are in small places outside of the big cities the prices for labor and location are less and also the big ace in the hole - BRANDING. This is a REAL BIG BRAND. NVB >From: "John Adair" >Reply-To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: [CANSLIM] kkd; Tom is correct imop. >Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:53:35 -0600 > >There are 100 fulltime employees per store. o labor costs are exorbitant >and >will remain so but the long lines will not always remain when the new >wears >off. >Those ministores are simply special containers locates mostly in love >stations so far ( when they start). They will be serviced from certain >stores ( some stores have a larger capacity) The recipient stores will >make >as much as the home store does from each donut. I cant see how it can last >but for now it looks good. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dan Forant >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:41 AM >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > >Tom, > >As usual you bring substance to a the conversation. Howerver, the economy >is >showing signs at this point because it is pre Holiday Season. The busiest >time of the year is just ahead. What happens after that. We need the >President's financial incentive passed and soon to really get started. It >is >reported that because of October's reports the Fed will not lower again. > >DanF >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tom Worley >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:29 PM >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > >I helped bring a company public many years ago, made cinnamon buns and >stuff >like that. Smelled great, tasted great. Tried exactly the same concept. >Went >bankrupt several years later. Labor costs alone were killing them. Capital >equipment costs, rental space, supervision of many little stores, etc. >destroyed any chance at cost efficiency. Much as I love KKD's glazed hot >air >right off the rack, I won't buy their stock. > >Tom Worley >stkguru@netside.net >AIM: TexWorley >----- Original Message ----- >From: Warren Keuffel >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > >My take on the article was that KKD was going to start opening >mini-stores within gas stations, etc. such as the Burger Kings, Taco >Bells and KFCs you find at freeway gas stations. That's a co-location >model that has worked well for the fast food industry and I think it >will work for KKD because it will promote brand identity (which you >don't get at Target) and allow higher margins. I assume that KKD will >still build the bigger stores in high-traffic locations. > >My (uninformed) $0.02. But I bot a small position in KKD recently, >so... >Warren > >Kent Norman wrote: > > > If smaller stores were the answer, then why do > > executives tout the "economies of scale"? > > > > Why build stores at all when you can get the product > > at Target and many other places? I got some at a > > store/gas station. > > > > Someone is trying to bluff us and I don't buy it! > > > > Kent Norman > > > > --- Spencer48@aol.com wrote: > > > Bill: > > > > > > Did you read that? The article says that > > > Krispy Kreme is hoping to > > > expand their sales by using smaller stores. They > > > believe the smaller store > > > will add value to the larger (regional) factory > > > store in that the smaller > > > stores will be able to make the dougnuts more > > > efficiently. > > > > > > Doesn't that seem wrongheaded? The reason > > > customers buy "fresh-baked" > > > dougnuts is because they are freshly baked. How's > > > Krispy going to advertise: > > > "We "fresh-bake". Not once, but TWICE." > > > > > > jans > > > > > > In a message dated 11/15/2001 12:38:28 PM Eastern > > > Standard Time, > > > btriffet@earthlink.net writes: > > > > > > << I forgot to add: in today's New America they > > > mentioned Krispy Kreme > > > Donuts...(rip). > > > >> _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:39:24 -0700 From: "Patrick Wahl" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] How to Make Money or 24 Essential Lessons? How to Make Money in Stocks. On 19 Nov 01, at 13:11, Williams, Bob wrote: > I just received copies of "How to Make Money in Stocks" and "24 Essential > Lessons for Investment Success," both by Wm. J. O'Neil. > > Which should I read first? > > Bob Williams > The World's Most Modest Man > Nominal Leader of The Wooden Nickel Jass Band > http://wnjb.com > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:53:12 -0800 From: Harvey Brion Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers Gene, Monday's IBD numbers give A+B/A:E=54.6%. This is pretty close to the 52% that you got from DGO. Clearly, the data bases are different since A:E is 5407 in IBD and 7437 in DGO. It may make some difference that Monday's paper goes to press Friday afternoon and the DGO is updated some time later. However, I suspect that most of it comes from the difference in data bases. I guess this suggests that the A/D on the broader DGO data base is lower (52% vs. 54.6%) than on the narrower IBD data base. Where did you get your numbers on DGO beta site? I couldn't find them. - -Harvey Gene Ricci wrote: IBD/DGO numbers are a constant puzzle to me. The following was just taken from the DGO beta. Anyone know why the data is inconsistent? e = 670 d =1299 c = 1595 b = 2957 a = 916 total = 7437 a + b = 3873 % a+b / total = 3873/7437 = 52% Gene Gene Ricci wrote: > IBD/DGO numbers are a constant puzzle to me. The following was just > taken from the DGO beta.Anyone know why the data is inconsistent? e = > 670d =1299c = 1595b = 2957a = 916 total = 7437 a + b = 3873 % a+b / > total = 3873/7437 = 52% Gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert > To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 7:04 PM > Subject: [CANSLIM] Acc/Dis Numbers > Here are the latest Acc/Dis Numbers > > > > > spread sheet version > > Date,A,B,C,D,E,% of AB/A:E,%E,Market Posture > > > 11/8/01,610,2168,1179,992,425,52%,8%,Market in correction > 11/9/01,598,2180,1174,1013,405,52%,8%,Market in correction > 11/12/01,580,2208,1209,994,387,52%,7%,Market in correction > 11/13/01,576,2193,1218,996,383,52%,7%,Market in correction > 11/14/01,588,2172,1230,1002,380,51%,7%,Market in correction > 11/15/01,659,2250,1205,912,360,54%,7%,Market in correction > 11/16/01,677,2296,1195,879,349,55%,6%,Market in correction > 11/19/01,658,2295,1182,913,359,55%,7%,Market in correction > > Robert > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:08:57 +0800 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] kkd Hi Nicholas, I don't look at what people are discussing here as "missing the point," rather a healthy skeptism in looking at the expansion and concept strategy itself. Examples such as the freight train that is Starbucks speak to successful concept and execution, but there are also plenty of examples of company owned/franchise food operations that are in the trash heap of public company history. Einstein Bagels and Boston Chicken come immediately to mind. Katherine - -----Original Message----- From: "Nicholas Barone" Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:25:03 -0800 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] kkd > Hi All: > > Krispy Kreme has been around since 1937 - It's like a Starbucks or a > MacDonalds concept etc. - I guess you didn't like those ideas either. > > They are now just starting to expand. > > They sell doughnuts and great coffee (really great) - expanding the coffee > aspect too!!! > > The Big factory story makes the doughnuts and sells them - > The small compact store would get doughnuts that are not fully baked from > the big store and with a smaller machine - glaze them etc. > > These stories have been around forever in the south and have an installed > base of people who are hooked. > > They are now hooking others - it's entertainment - they are not in big > cities but in smaller places near big cities where people live for some kind > of destination and entertainment > > You are missing the big picture - they are making "crazy" money - they have > a long established model - it works - the stock goes up - what is your > problem - you want to tell the market what to do - ok - but you can lose > doing that. > > This thing has a great chart. Really - what is your problem ?? > > My 3cents - I upped you a penny. > > I am sorry Tom but your analogy is not the same > As that the big stores are in small places outside of the big cities the > prices for labor and location are less and also the big ace in the hole - > BRANDING. This is a REAL BIG BRAND. > > NVB > > > > > > >From: "John Adair" > >Reply-To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > >To: > >Subject: [CANSLIM] kkd; Tom is correct imop. > >Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:53:35 -0600 > > > >There are 100 fulltime employees per store. o labor costs are exorbitant > >and > >will remain so but the long lines will not always remain when the new > >wears > >off. > >Those ministores are simply special containers locates mostly in love > >stations so far ( when they start). They will be serviced from certain > >stores ( some stores have a larger capacity) The recipient stores will > >make > >as much as the home store does from each donut. I cant see how it can last > >but for now it looks good. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > >[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dan Forant > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:41 AM > >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > > > >Tom, > > > >As usual you bring substance to a the conversation. Howerver, the economy > >is > >showing signs at this point because it is pre Holiday Season. The busiest > >time of the year is just ahead. What happens after that. We need the > >President's financial incentive passed and soon to really get started. It > >is > >reported that because of October's reports the Fed will not lower again. > > > >DanF > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Tom Worley > >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:29 PM > >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > > > >I helped bring a company public many years ago, made cinnamon buns and > >stuff > >like that. Smelled great, tasted great. Tried exactly the same concept. > >Went > >bankrupt several years later. Labor costs alone were killing them. Capital > >equipment costs, rental space, supervision of many little stores, etc. > >destroyed any chance at cost efficiency. Much as I love KKD's glazed hot > >air > >right off the rack, I won't buy their stock. > > > >Tom Worley > >stkguru@netside.net > >AIM: TexWorley > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Warren Keuffel > >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:38 PM > >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > > > >My take on the article was that KKD was going to start opening > >mini-stores within gas stations, etc. such as the Burger Kings, Taco > >Bells and KFCs you find at freeway gas stations. That's a co-location > >model that has worked well for the fast food industry and I think it > >will work for KKD because it will promote brand identity (which you > >don't get at Target) and allow higher margins. I assume that KKD will > >still build the bigger stores in high-traffic locations. > > > >My (uninformed) $0.02. But I bot a small position in KKD recently, > >so... > >Warren > > > >Kent Norman wrote: > > > > > If smaller stores were the answer, then why do > > > executives tout the "economies of scale"? > > > > > > Why build stores at all when you can get the product > > > at Target and many other places? I got some at a > > > store/gas station. > > > > > > Someone is trying to bluff us and I don't buy it! > > > > > > Kent Norman > > > > > > --- Spencer48@aol.com wrote: > > > > Bill: > > > > > > > > Did you read that? The article says that > > > > Krispy Kreme is hoping to > > > > expand their sales by using smaller stores. They > > > > believe the smaller store > > > > will add value to the larger (regional) factory > > > > store in that the smaller > > > > stores will be able to make the dougnuts more > > > > efficiently. > > > > > > > > Doesn't that seem wrongheaded? The reason > > > > customers buy "fresh-baked" > > > > dougnuts is because they are freshly baked. How's > > > > Krispy going to advertise: > > > > "We "fresh-bake". Not once, but TWICE." > > > > > > > > jans > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/15/2001 12:38:28 PM Eastern > > > > Standard Time, > > > > btriffet@earthlink.net writes: > > > > > > > > << I forgot to add: in today's New America they > > > > mentioned Krispy Kreme > > > > Donuts...(rip). > > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > - -- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:41:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert Gammon" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] kkd Krispy Kreme vs Boston Chicken and Einstein Bagels. In part, what goes on here is expansion of a food concept outside of the region in which it was developed. Regional tastes and preferences have helped refine the original concept, yet when translated to other regions, the concept falls flat once the initial excitement dies down. KKD developed the concept over a VERY long time in comparison to these other companies. Robert On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:08:57 +0800, Katherine Malm wrote: >Hi Nicholas, > >I don't look at what people are discussing here as "missing the point," rather a healthy skeptism in looking at the expansion and concept strategy itself. Examples such as the freight train that is Starbucks speak to successful concept and execution, but there are also plenty of examples of company owned/franchise food operations that are in the trash heap of public company history. Einstein Bagels and Boston Chicken come immediately to mind. > >Katherine >-----Original Message----- >From: "Nicholas Barone" >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:25:03 -0800 >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] kkd > > >> Hi All: >> >> Krispy Kreme has been around since 1937 - It's like a Starbucks or a >> MacDonalds concept etc. - I guess you didn't like those ideas either. >> >> They are now just starting to expand. >> >> They sell doughnuts and great coffee (really great) - expanding the coffee >> aspect too!!! >> >> The Big factory story makes the doughnuts and sells them - >> The small compact store would get doughnuts that are not fully baked from >> the big store and with a smaller machine - glaze them etc. >> >> These stories have been around forever in the south and have an installed >> base of people who are hooked. >> >> They are now hooking others - it's entertainment - they are not in big >> cities but in smaller places near big cities where people live for some kind >> of destination and entertainment >> >> You are missing the big picture - they are making "crazy" money - they have >> a long established model - it works - the stock goes up - what is your >> problem - you want to tell the market what to do - ok - but you can lose >> doing that. >> >> This thing has a great chart. Really - what is your problem ?? >> >> My 3cents - I upped you a penny. >> >> I am sorry Tom but your analogy is not the same >> As that the big stores are in small places outside of the big cities the >> prices for labor and location are less and also the big ace in the hole - >> BRANDING. This is a REAL BIG BRAND. >> >> NVB >> >> >> >> >> >> >From: "John Adair" >> >Reply-To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >> >To: >> >Subject: [CANSLIM] kkd; Tom is correct imop. >> >Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:53:35 -0600 >> > >> >There are 100 fulltime employees per store. o labor costs are exorbitant >> >and >> >will remain so but the long lines will not always remain when the new >> >wears >> >off. >> >Those ministores are simply special containers locates mostly in love >> >stations so far ( when they start). They will be serviced from certain >> >stores ( some stores have a larger capacity) The recipient stores will >> >make >> >as much as the home store does from each donut. I cant see how it can last >> >but for now it looks good. >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com >> >[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dan Forant >> >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:41 AM >> >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >> >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. >> > >> >Tom, >> > >> >As usual you bring substance to a the conversation. Howerver, the economy >> >is >> >showing signs at this point because it is pre Holiday Season. The busiest >> >time of the year is just ahead. What happens after that. We need the >> >President's financial incentive passed and soon to really get started. It >> >is >> >reported that because of October's reports the Fed will not lower again. >> > >> >DanF >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: Tom Worley >> >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >> >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:29 PM >> >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. >> > >> >I helped bring a company public many years ago, made cinnamon buns and >> >stuff >> >like that. Smelled great, tasted great. Tried exactly the same concept. >> >Went >> >bankrupt several years later. Labor costs alone were killing them. Capital >> >equipment costs, rental space, supervision of many little stores, etc. >> >destroyed any chance at cost efficiency. Much as I love KKD's glazed hot >> >air >> >right off the rack, I won't buy their stock. >> > >> >Tom Worley >> >stkguru@netside.net >> >AIM: TexWorley >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: Warren Keuffel >> >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >> >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:38 PM >> >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. >> > >> >My take on the article was that KKD was going to start opening >> >mini-stores within gas stations, etc. such as the Burger Kings, Taco >> >Bells and KFCs you find at freeway gas stations. That's a co-location >> >model that has worked well for the fast food industry and I think it >> >will work for KKD because it will promote brand identity (which you >> >don't get at Target) and allow higher margins. I assume that KKD will >> >still build the bigger stores in high-traffic locations. >> > >> >My (uninformed) $0.02. But I bot a small position in KKD recently, >> >so... >> >Warren >> > >> >Kent Norman wrote: >> > >> > > If smaller stores were the answer, then why do >> > > executives tout the "economies of scale"? >> > > >> > > Why build stores at all when you can get the product >> > > at Target and many other places? I got some at a >> > > store/gas station. >> > > >> > > Someone is trying to bluff us and I don't buy it! >> > > >> > > Kent Norman >> > > >> > > --- Spencer48@aol.com wrote: >> > > > Bill: >> > > > >> > > > Did you read that? The article says that >> > > > Krispy Kreme is hoping to >> > > > expand their sales by using smaller stores. They >> > > > believe the smaller store >> > > > will add value to the larger (regional) factory >> > > > store in that the smaller >> > > > stores will be able to make the dougnuts more >> > > > efficiently. >> > > > >> > > > Doesn't that seem wrongheaded? The reason >> > > > customers buy "fresh-baked" >> > > > dougnuts is because they are freshly baked. How's >> > > > Krispy going to advertise: >> > > > "We "fresh-bake". Not once, but TWICE." >> > > > >> > > > jans >> > > > >> > > > In a message dated 11/15/2001 12:38:28 PM Eastern >> > > > Standard Time, >> > > > btriffet@earthlink.net writes: >> > > > >> > > > << I forgot to add: in today's New America they >> > > > mentioned Krispy Kreme >> > > > Donuts...(rip). >> > > > >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >> >> >> - >> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >> -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >> -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. >> > >-- > > > >- >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:54:33 +0800 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] kkd Robert, Understand what you are saying, but that wasn't my point. In fact Boston Market and Einstein Bagels were good concepts and they developed a loyal customer following that continues today under new ownership since the bankruptcies. These were disasters for other reasons and as public companies left shareholders empty handed. My points were twofold: (1) Good food/concept + poorly executed strategy = recipe for disaster (2) Understanding and appreciating the reverential devotion to the KKD donut + debating its expansion strategy do not equal "missing the point." Respectfully, Katherine - -----Original Message----- From: "Robert Gammon" Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:41:50 -0600 (CST) To: "canslim@lists.xmission.com" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] kkd > Krispy Kreme vs Boston Chicken and Einstein Bagels. > > In part, what goes on here is expansion of a food concept outside > of the region in which it was developed. Regional tastes and > preferences have helped refine the original concept, yet when > translated to other regions, the concept falls flat once the > initial excitement dies down. KKD developed the concept over a > VERY long time in comparison to these other companies. > > Robert > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:08:57 +0800, Katherine Malm wrote: > > >Hi Nicholas, > > > >I don't look at what people are discussing here as "missing the > point," rather a healthy skeptism in looking at the expansion and > concept strategy itself. Examples such as the freight train that > is Starbucks speak to successful concept and execution, but there > are also plenty of examples of company owned/franchise food > operations that are in the trash heap of public company history. > Einstein Bagels and Boston Chicken come immediately to mind. > > > >Katherine > >-----Original Message----- > >From: "Nicholas Barone" > >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:25:03 -0800 > >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] kkd > > > > > >> Hi All: > >> > >> Krispy Kreme has been around since 1937 - It's like a > Starbucks or a > >> MacDonalds concept etc. - I guess you didn't like those ideas > either. > >> > >> They are now just starting to expand. > >> > >> They sell doughnuts and great coffee (really great) - > expanding the coffee > >> aspect too!!! > >> > >> The Big factory story makes the doughnuts and sells them - > >> The small compact store would get doughnuts that are not fully > baked from > >> the big store and with a smaller machine - glaze them etc. > >> > >> These stories have been around forever in the south and have > an installed > >> base of people who are hooked. > >> > >> They are now hooking others - it's entertainment - they are > not in big > >> cities but in smaller places near big cities where people live > for some kind > >> of destination and entertainment > >> > >> You are missing the big picture - they are making "crazy" > money - they have > >> a long established model - it works - the stock goes up - what > is your > >> problem - you want to tell the market what to do - ok - but > you can lose > >> doing that. > >> > >> This thing has a great chart. Really - what is your problem > ?? > >> > >> My 3cents - I upped you a penny. > >> > >> I am sorry Tom but your analogy is not the same > >> As that the big stores are in small places outside of the big > cities the > >> prices for labor and location are less and also the big ace in > the hole - > >> BRANDING. This is a REAL BIG BRAND. > >> > >> NVB > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >From: "John Adair" > >> >Reply-To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > >> >To: > >> >Subject: [CANSLIM] kkd; Tom is correct imop. > >> >Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:53:35 -0600 > >> > > >> >There are 100 fulltime employees per store. o labor costs are > exorbitant > >> >and > >> >will remain so but the long lines will not always remain when > the new > >> >wears > >> >off. > >> >Those ministores are simply special containers locates mostly > in love > >> >stations so far ( when they start). They will be serviced > from certain > >> >stores ( some stores have a larger capacity) The recipient > stores will > >> >make > >> >as much as the home store does from each donut. I cant see > how it can last > >> >but for now it looks good. > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > >> >[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dan > Forant > >> >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:41 AM > >> >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > >> >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > >> > > >> >Tom, > >> > > >> >As usual you bring substance to a the conversation. Howerver, > the economy > >> >is > >> >showing signs at this point because it is pre Holiday Season. > The busiest > >> >time of the year is just ahead. What happens after that. We > need the > >> >President's financial incentive passed and soon to really get > started. It > >> >is > >> >reported that because of October's reports the Fed will not > lower again. > >> > > >> >DanF > >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >From: Tom Worley > >> >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > > >> >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:29 PM > >> >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > >> > > >> >I helped bring a company public many years ago, made cinnamon > buns and > >> >stuff > >> >like that. Smelled great, tasted great. Tried exactly the > same concept. > >> >Went > >> >bankrupt several years later. Labor costs alone were killing > them. Capital > >> >equipment costs, rental space, supervision of many little > stores, etc. > >> >destroyed any chance at cost efficiency. Much as I love KKD's > glazed hot > >> >air > >> >right off the rack, I won't buy their stock. > >> > > >> >Tom Worley > >> >stkguru@netside.net > >> >AIM: TexWorley > >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >From: Warren Keuffel > >> >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > > >> >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:38 PM > >> >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Investors Corner EPS ratings. > >> > > >> >My take on the article was that KKD was going to start > opening > >> >mini-stores within gas stations, etc. such as the Burger > Kings, Taco > >> >Bells and KFCs you find at freeway gas stations. That's a > co-location > >> >model that has worked well for the fast food industry and I > think it > >> >will work for KKD because it will promote brand identity > (which you > >> >don't get at Target) and allow higher margins. I assume that > KKD will > >> >still build the bigger stores in high-traffic locations. > >> > > >> >My (uninformed) $0.02. But I bot a small position in KKD > recently, > >> >so... > >> >Warren > >> > > >> >Kent Norman wrote: > >> > > >> > > If smaller stores were the answer, then why do > >> > > executives tout the "economies of scale"? > >> > > > >> > > Why build stores at all when you can get the product > >> > > at Target and many other places? I got some at a > >> > > store/gas station. > >> > > > >> > > Someone is trying to bluff us and I don't buy it! > >> > > > >> > > Kent Norman > >> > > > >> > > --- Spencer48@aol.com wrote: > >> > > > Bill: > >> > > > > >> > > > Did you read that? The article says that > >> > > > Krispy Kreme is hoping to > >> > > > expand their sales by using smaller stores. They > >> > > > believe the smaller store > >> > > > will add value to the larger (regional) factory > >> > > > store in that the smaller > >> > > > stores will be able to make the dougnuts more > >> > > > efficiently. > >> > > > > >> > > > Doesn't that seem wrongheaded? The reason > >> > > > customers buy "fresh-baked" > >> > > > dougnuts is because they are freshly baked. How's > >> > > > Krispy going to advertise: > >> > > > "We "fresh-bake". Not once, but TWICE." > >> > > > > >> > > > jans > >> > > > > >> > > > In a message dated 11/15/2001 12:38:28 PM Eastern > >> > > > Standard Time, > >> > > > btriffet@earthlink.net > writes: > >> > > > > >> > > > << I forgot to add: in today's New America they > >> > > > mentioned Krispy Kreme > >> > > > Donuts...(rip). > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >> > >> > >> - > >> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > >> -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > >> -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > >> > > > >-- > > > > > > > >- > >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > - -- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #1829 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.