From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #216 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Tuesday, April 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 216 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] Getting Stopped Out [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch [CANSLIM] Selling stocks with a profit. Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch Re: [CANSLIM] Re.Short Selling Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch [CANSLIM] Question: stop orders for small caps Re: [CANSLIM] Selling stocks with a profit. Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch [CANSLIM] OBV/MF Re: [CANSLIM] Selling stocks with a profit. Re: [CANSLIM] Question: stop orders for small caps Re: [CANSLIM] Re.Short Selling [CANSLIM] World Markets [CANSLIM] YHOO, XCIT Re: [CANSLIM] YHOO, XCIT Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch Re: [CANSLIM] Question: stop orders for small caps RE: [CANSLIM] YHOO, XCIT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:57:31 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Getting Stopped Out Let your stops work for you. I am out of six today, 4 at a loss. My scans have been picking up weaker and weaker stocks, like Connie I have seen little worth buying for the past several weeks, so have been buying back stocks that were subject to the see-if-we-can-stop-em-out worms. Not a good idea, in retrospect. Those are the ones I was dumped out of today. Plus a few good ones which for no apparent reason got down 15-20% intraday (i.e. SDII). If tomorrow is another 1% down day, be glad you are out. I have been nervous about this market for this entire run-up, it was not behaving like it did last summer. Too many breakouts have been failing, too many super strong CANSLIM stocks have been treading water. I am not getting back in until I see the bottom signal... At 10:52 AM 4/27/98 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for the feedback; looks like an interesting site. > >Boy, today sure was rough for me. I've been stopped out of 4 stocks (3 >today, 1 Friday). 2 of these were in stocks i entered recently, and I took >my 5-8% loss. Frankly, that doesn't bother me. What really gets under my >skin is what happened to my other 2 stocks; namely, being up over 30%, and >then being taken out by stops for gains of under 10%. My selling strategy >has not worked out for me. I definitely know how to take my losses quickly, >but I do not know how to let my winners run. Whenever I have a stock that >has appreciated more than 20% in less than 8 weeks, I have tried to follow >the selling strategy in HTMMIS of holding for at least 8 weeks. Invariably, >I get stopped out for profits that are less than 20%, and often less than >10% becuase i want to five these winners room for the inevitable correction >that WON describes in his chapter on selling. And this has happened to me >both when M is good and rising, as well as on days like today were M is and >looks to be terrible for the short term. While I'm ahead in my CANSLIM >picks for the quarter, and for the past year, my performance has not matched >the returns on the major indexes because my selling discipline seems to >leave too many profits on the table. I guess I'd like to develop a less >passive selling strategy to being taken out by stop orders, but I do not >have the experience, confidence or expertise to actively sell a stock when >things are going well (i.e. when I'm up over 20%). > >I believe the passive selling strategy I employ (relying on stop orders >below support lines) is designed to get you out of stinkers fast and keep >you in winners for the long haul. That is why CANSLIM is refferred to as >"investing" and not trading. Ironically, the way it works for me in practice >is to take me out of my best performing stocks at less than optimal times. >And I find it hard to imagine ever holding on to a CANSLIM stock for those >100%, 200% or those 1000% gainers WON outlines in his book. When is the >last time anyone on this list held a CANSLIM pick for more than 3-6 months? >More than a year? > >Don't get me wrong, I still am committed to CANSLIM investing. I obviously >need to further modify and develop my selling strategy to make it work >better for me. > > > > Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@orerockon.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:10:17 -0400 From: Jeffry White <"postwhit@sover.net"@sover.net> Subject: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch Evening, friends and family of Dave Cameron: (Dave, how'm I gonna stop this nonsense?;)) We banged hard into the 50 day moving average in most of the key indices (except the DOW), much like we saw around the middle of October last. Be ever watchful of the possibility of a 3-5 day rally followed by an abrupt failure. Suggest reading that part of Chapter 7 again. I'm about to do the same, for the billionth time. Notice that volume on the Nasdaq was remarkably low, for such a huge move down (just as odd as a billion share day on Wednesday with less than a 1% move). In fact, I think volume today was actually lower than Friday. NYSE and SP volume may have actually expanded, but I haven't looked closely, yet. The rally will likely not have much volume behind it either, but I suspect we should move up for the bulk of the week from here. Although it was a huge move down with a bounce off the 50 day, we'd be far better off to have seen a more gradual decline to that point, a gap down open led by the futures, and a reversal to close either unchanged to positive on higher daily volume than Friday. That is the type of "bottoming action" from which to count for "follow through", as I understand it. It is usually the type of flush that occurs to eliminate the last of the weak hands on the open, with the strong buyers coming in to rally the indices. Yet, such action is most comforting when sentiment is bearish, in the ranges we saw in late January. With sentiment at precisely the opposite extreme, it seems little more than an assurance of a short term rally, possibly to new highs for a time. But, that's not what we saw today. We closed lower, significantly, the rally was weak, and so, too, was the volume. However, with volume so light, it appears the less disciplined, and smaller "Dipsters" are not yet flushed. Today was probably not enough to scare folks and the bounce off the 50 day seems testament to that. The "Dipsters" are still there, bullish as hell, seeing no danger, just an opportunity to grab some of what they feel they missed over the past quarter. I'll use the rally if it comes, and I'll assume it will fail, to squeeze the last of the juice from my only long position, a quarter of my NBTY June Call position started back in December, and hope the net stocks or the likes of LGTO, IMRS, BFT, BLDPF, TWMC rally from their tumbles on unimpressive volume, as well. If the rally fails, I'll short as many as I can with in the money Puts, 3-6 months out. If it survives, I'll be in cash. Need that clear a signal to short heavily, and at this point, and even clear signal to be long. Otherwise, I'll sit on the sidelines and wait, earning interest instead of feeling like I'm guessing. Regards, Jeffry P.S. Re-reading this before hitting the send button, it sounds so ominous, even to me. Not that I know whether the analysis will prove right or wrong (although I believe it to be a fair read), it just struck me as silly, seemingly disciplined and blindly matter of fact. Rather than erasing it, I should probably just say: "I'm cautious". ;) And, good luck to those braver than I. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:05:49 -0500 From: Dave Cameron Subject: [CANSLIM] Selling stocks with a profit. Robert Venchiarutti wrote: > > What really gets under my > skin is what happened to my other 2 stocks; namely, being up over 30%, and > then being taken out by stops for gains of under 10%. My selling strategy > has not worked out for me. I definitely know how to take my losses quickly, > but I do not know how to let my winners run. Whenever I have a stock that > has appreciated more than 20% in less than 8 weeks, I have tried to follow > the selling strategy in HTMMIS of holding for at least 8 weeks. Invariably, > I get stopped out for profits that are less than 20%, and often less than > 10% becuase i want to five these winners room for the inevitable correction > that WON describes in his chapter on selling. And this has happened to me > both when M is good and rising, as well as on days like today were M is and > looks to be terrible for the short term. FWIW, this was my experience today.... Of course, so many people have been saying "caution, caution, I'm in cash" - so today was a market-driven drop, but you indicate that this happens to you when "M" is rising. I'm not sure how much help I will be, since I am subject to the same problem, but... what I've found is to watch the basing action. In many cases, a stock will rise 25% - then drop 15% and base for a while. I've found that if you either take the 25% profit (something I never do) or set the stop right below the new base, you'll be OK. The tough part is waiting for the new base. I can say this because I've been stopped out on occasion at the low end of the new base before I knew it was a new base. This was in an attempt to preserve some profit. Lo and behold, looking at the chart 2 months later, I realize that the stock was forming a new base about 15% off its high. This base usually lasts 4-8 weeks, then the stock starts up again. Regardless, this is easy to say, but tough to do. I've got plenty of stocks in my spreadsheet that I held for 4 months for a $500 gain... Dave Cameron - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:14:08 -0500 From: Dave Cameron Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch Jeffry White wrote: > > Evening, friends and family of Dave Cameron: (Dave, how'm I gonna stop > this nonsense?;)) Do I have friends out there? So far, it looks as if all the nay-sayers on the market have been incredibly perceptive, and I've looked myopic. That's OK - I've often claimed I'm terrible at reading "M". The only oddity about all this is that it seems driven by the article in the WSJ. I'm still letting the stops do the work though. I remember a similar down day on Greenspan's "Irrational Exuberance" comment. I sold out of EVERYTHING that day - ending up with several losses. The market had a one-day drop, I sold at the lows, and my stocks never looked back. There is a slight difference to the recent exuberance in that there has been faltering of late. When Greenspan railed about "Irrational Exuberance" we seemed to be still charging up the hill. Bottom line: If today had been down like it was with no news (no WSJ article), I'd be selling several under-performers. Since there was this confounding factor, I'm sticking to my stops. Dave Cameron - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:39:11 GMT From: musicant@autobahn.org (Dan Musicant) Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re.Short Selling On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:00:26 -0400, you wrote: : When you do a short sale, you must indicate it as a :short sale both so that the shares can first be borrowed, then so that :the uptick rule can be honored. But when you buy back the shares, it :is no different that a normal long purchase. : :Tom W At Datek, you simply sell a stock you don't own, and you have shorted it. You don't have to stipulate that it is a short position. This is what their online help explains. I presume, that if they don't have shares for you to borrow, the sale won't go through. Don't know about that. Then when you want to cover it is as Tom said: you just buy the same number of shares you shorted in the account you were short the shares. Dan - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:20:14 PDT From: "Charles Morgan" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch Hi everybody, I guess you could call me a "dipster" since I watched the market tumbled and didn't sell. I did come close to a couple of stops early in the day, but the stocks recovered some of the losses. I will definitely keep a close eye tomorrow, especially with Asia not looking to good right now (midnight EST). In my early stock picking days I would get spooked out of my stocks on almost any downtrend. I have since grown wiser or a maybe a glutton for punishment ;) >Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:10:17 -0400 >From: Jeffry White <"postwhit@sover.net"@sover.net> >To: canslim@mail.xmission.com >Subject: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch >Reply-To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > >Evening, friends and family of Dave Cameron: (Dave, how'm I gonna stop >this nonsense?;)) > >We banged hard into the 50 day moving average in most of the key indices >(except the DOW), much like we saw around the middle of October last. >Be ever watchful of the possibility of a 3-5 day rally followed by an >abrupt failure. Suggest reading that part of Chapter 7 again. I'm about >to do the same, for the billionth time. > >Notice that volume on the Nasdaq was remarkably low, for such a huge >move down (just as odd as a billion share day on Wednesday with less >than a 1% move). In fact, I think volume today was actually lower than >Friday. NYSE and SP volume may have actually expanded, but I haven't >looked closely, yet. The rally will likely not have much volume behind >it either, but I suspect we should move up for the bulk of the week from >here. > >Although it was a huge move down with a bounce off the 50 day, we'd be >far better off to have seen a more gradual decline to that point, a gap >down open led by the futures, and a reversal to close either unchanged >to positive on higher daily volume than Friday. That is the type of >"bottoming action" from which to count for "follow through", as I >understand it. It is usually the type of flush that occurs to eliminate >the last of the weak hands on the open, with the strong buyers coming in >to rally the indices. Yet, such action is most comforting when >sentiment is bearish, in the ranges we saw in late January. With >sentiment at precisely the opposite extreme, it seems little more than >an assurance of a short term rally, possibly to new highs for a time. >But, that's not what we saw today. We closed lower, significantly, the >rally was weak, and so, too, was the volume. > >However, with volume so light, it appears the less disciplined, and >smaller "Dipsters" are not yet flushed. Today was probably not enough >to scare folks and the bounce off the 50 day seems testament to that. >The "Dipsters" are still there, bullish as hell, seeing no danger, just >an opportunity to grab some of what they feel they missed over the past >quarter. > >I'll use the rally if it comes, and I'll assume it will fail, to squeeze >the last of the juice from my only long position, a quarter of my NBTY >June Call position started back in December, and hope the net stocks or >the likes of LGTO, IMRS, BFT, BLDPF, TWMC rally from their tumbles on >unimpressive volume, as well. If the rally fails, I'll short as many as >I can with in the money Puts, 3-6 months out. If it survives, I'll be >in cash. Need that clear a signal to short heavily, and at this point, >and even clear signal to be long. Otherwise, I'll sit on the sidelines >and wait, earning interest instead of feeling like I'm guessing. > >Regards, > >Jeffry > >P.S. Re-reading this before hitting the send button, it sounds so >ominous, even to me. Not that I know whether the analysis will prove >right or wrong (although I believe it to be a fair read), it just struck >me as silly, seemingly disciplined and blindly matter of fact. Rather >than erasing it, I should probably just say: "I'm cautious". ;) And, >good luck to those braver than I. > >- > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:59:50 +0300 From: "David S. Pinhasik" Subject: [CANSLIM] Question: stop orders for small caps Upon purchasing TTILF, I set my 8% stop loss order. I use Suretrade, and the system accepted my stop order. Then, after the market came a tumblin down, I expected my stop to have been executed. To my surprise, the execution status was listed as "Rejected". Suretrade quickly responded to my letter, writing that I cannot set a stop order for small caps. Pardon my ignorance, but could someone explain what the connection is? Do all O/L brokers have the same policy? Why didn't I receive an error message * AS * I entered the stop order? (That is a question probably better suited for Suretrade, but perhaps you know) David - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:51:40 EDT From: DCSquires Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Selling stocks with a profit. In a message dated 98-04-27 23:09:19 EDT, you write: << What really gets under my > skin is what happened to my other 2 stocks; namely, being up over 30%, and > then being taken out by stops for gains of under 10%. >> Selling partial postions is a great alternative to this. If you sell a third or half of your postion at a 20-25% gain it will keep your mind off the size of your profit and let you focus on the price action for the balance of your position. If you are watching price action and interpreting it right you will usaully be on the right side of the trade. DSquires - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:50:23 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch Dave, What amazes me is that the mkt reacted as if the concept of further tightening by the Feds was (or should have been) a surprise! There have been numerous articles on this, and I am on record as well, pointing out the chances of a Fed rate reduction as somewhat worse than the proverbial snowball in Hades. Likewise, the "economic slowing" expected from the Asian crises has clearly not developed as domestic consumption has continued to grow. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the bias of the Fed Reserve must be towards tightening, not lowering, the rate. Yet, all of a sudden, one article in WSJ creates reality and credibility!! The real question for me is whether this is an example of a WSJ "Deep Throat" within the Fed Reserve system or, as some analysts already speculated, a deliberate leak by the Feds to slow down the bond and stock mkt since they cannot actually raise rates in light of the lack of any inflationary data (and the political heat that would otherwise result) along with continued and growing economic weakness in Asia. I remain on record: no change at the May FOMC meeting. Earliest action cannot occur until the July meeting, and then only if sig inflationary evidence has been reported by then. A continuation of high employment won't suffice, nor will minor growth in the cost of labor. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Dave Cameron To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch >That's OK - I've often claimed I'm terrible at reading "M". The only >oddity about all this is that it seems driven by the article in the WSJ. >I'm still letting the stops do the work though. I remember a similar >down day on Greenspan's "Irrational Exuberance" comment. I sold out >of EVERYTHING that day - ending up with several losses. The market >had a one-day drop, I sold at the lows, and my stocks never looked back. > >There is a slight difference to the recent exuberance in that there has >been faltering of late. When Greenspan railed about "Irrational Exuberance" >we seemed to be still charging up the hill. > >Bottom line: If today had been down like it was with no news (no WSJ article), > I'd be selling several under-performers. Since there was this > confounding factor, I'm sticking to my stops. > >Dave Cameron > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:55:09 -0400 From: Connie Mack Rea Subject: [CANSLIM] OBV/MF - --------------415A80550C56C1EBF6CD2A83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Members-- There is a saying that you should not buy at drop offs like yesterday. Some would call it an axiom, but an axiom, as you will recall from geometry, approaches a law. Market laws are few. This is not to say that the market will not test this low, or go lower, but what happens to investors is that they wait for the test and then are afraid to get back in for fear of a further drop. Consequently, they do not get in until much later. I posted yesterday a plan to get in slowly at this stage. I suggested a stock that appears to have a small downside, so that if the market does fall further, you would holding something that should resist a decline. There are arguments for doing nothing and doing a little. Though I have the fewest stocks to screen for this morning, I have more candidates than I've had in months. There is some logic to this seeming non-logic. When the market is rising, it is more difficult for a stock to show a positive divergence. The OBV/MF line is inclined as would be several market indicator lines. However, when the market falls, it is easier for a stock's OBV/MF to show positive because the market line is in decline. Strong stocks show up even stronger on their OBV/MF. These stocks are OBV/MF stocks. That does not mean that they are buys--only the EMA will show this--but that they show positive divergence. Because the OBV does depend on volume--really a percentage of positive volume increase--some stocks that are OBV positive don't get on my screens until they reach a price base [$12 in BC] and have a set percent rise in volume. A couple of these stocks have appeared on my screen before [SCOR and MDLK], but they were already marked with an EMA buy or were not yet a buy at that time. These are the stocks: SCOR, MDLK, CXI, POWL, and BRCP. Look at these on a BigChart 3-mos, 1-mos, and at least one intraday chart. MDLK is not ready with an EMA buy. The others are in various levels of EMA buys. Decide first which you think has the strongest divergence. To do that, you must use the five checks that I posted a day or so ago. Then check the condition of the EMA [not a buy, an approaching buy, a buy yesterday, or already a buy]. BRCP has been an EMA buy for about four days, but still looks okay. SCOR has a 1-2 EMA buy. CXI has a three day buy. POWL was a buy over two weeks ago. There is nothing wrong with buying a stock which has already an EMA buy, but the best odds are with buying a 1-2 day EMA or one about to give a first level buy [3-line through the 7-line]. Buying and selling--it's all about odds, proclivities, propensities, trends, and any kind of discernible non-randomness. One of the patterns I like to see is one that has a 2-week or longer positive divergence that passes into pattern where the stock only tracks price. This is followed by another 3-5 days of positive divergence in which the 3-5 days are the last trading days. It's even more powerful if the market has an upward bias for the last 3-5 days also. You may consider sector strength or whatever else suits your strategy. The first pattern--2-weeks or more of positive divergence--followed by a bunching up of the OBV/MF for a week or more is a powerful indicator of an upturn in price. I am keeping a diary of various patterns and will post them from time to time. Connie Mack - --------------415A80550C56C1EBF6CD2A83 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Members--

There is a saying that you should not buy at drop offs like yesterday.  Some would call it an axiom, but an axiom, as you will recall from geometry, approaches a law.  Market laws are few.

This is not to say that the market will not test this low, or go lower, but what happens to investors is that they wait for the test and then are afraid to get back in for fear of a further drop.  Consequently, they do not get in until much later.

I posted yesterday a plan to get in slowly at this stage.  I suggested a stock that appears to have a small downside, so that if the market does fall further, you would holding something that should resist a decline.  There are arguments for doing nothing and doing a little.

Though I have the fewest stocks to screen for this morning, I have more candidates than I've had in months.  There is some logic to this seeming non-logic.  When the market is rising, it is more difficult for a stock to show a positive divergence.  The OBV/MF line is inclined as would be several market indicator lines.

However, when the market falls, it is easier for a stock's OBV/MF to show positive because the market line is in decline.  Strong stocks show up even stronger on their OBV/MF.

These stocks are OBV/MF stocks.  That does not mean that they are buys--only the EMA will show this--but that they show positive divergence.  Because the OBV does depend on volume--really a percentage of positive volume increase--some stocks that are OBV positive don't get on my screens until they reach a price base [$12 in BC] and have a set percent rise in volume.

A couple of these stocks have appeared on my screen before [SCOR and MDLK], but they were already marked with an EMA buy or were not yet a buy at that time.

These are the stocks: SCOR, MDLK, CXI, POWL, and BRCP.

Look at these on a BigChart 3-mos, 1-mos, and at least one intraday chart.

MDLK is not ready with an EMA buy.  The others are in various levels of EMA buys.  Decide first which you think has the strongest divergence.  To do that, you must use the five checks that I posted a day or so ago.  Then check the condition of the EMA [not a buy, an approaching buy, a buy yesterday, or already a buy].  BRCP  has been an EMA buy for about four days, but still looks okay.  SCOR has a 1-2 EMA buy.  CXI has a three day buy.  POWL was a buy over two weeks ago.

There is nothing wrong with buying a stock which has already an EMA buy, but the best odds are with buying  a 1-2 day EMA or one about to give  a first level buy [3-line through the 7-line].

Buying and selling--it's all about odds, proclivities, propensities, trends, and any kind of discernible non-randomness.

One of the patterns I like to see is one that has a 2-week or longer positive divergence that passes into pattern where the stock only tracks price.  This is followed by another 3-5 days of positive divergence in which the 3-5 days are the last trading days.  It's even more powerful if the market has an upward bias for the last 3-5 days also.  You may consider sector strength or whatever else suits your strategy.

The first pattern--2-weeks or more of positive divergence--followed by a bunching up of the OBV/MF for a week or more is a powerful indicator of an upturn in price.

I am keeping a diary of various patterns and will post them from time to time.

Connie Mack - --------------415A80550C56C1EBF6CD2A83-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:02:47 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Selling stocks with a profit. I have a firm personal rule, and one of the few that I follow fanatically, that I MUST sell at least half of a position at the FIRST sign of weakness once I am up at least 100%. You could use something similar for any other percentage gain in which you can be happy about the profit and not later beat yourself up if the stock continues higher. WON has been fairly clear on selling when you are up 20% both to build up portfolio profits as well as personal confidence. The tough part of it is not getting upset when you see the stock go even higher and start mentally calculating all the profits you left on the table. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: DCSquires To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Selling stocks with a profit. >In a message dated 98-04-27 23:09:19 EDT, you write: > ><< What really gets under my > > skin is what happened to my other 2 stocks; namely, being up over 30%, and > > then being taken out by stops for gains of under 10%. >> > >Selling partial postions is a great alternative to this. If you sell a third >or half of your postion at a 20-25% gain it will keep your mind off the size >of your profit and let you focus on the price action for the balance of your >position. If you are watching price action and interpreting it right you will >usaully be on the right side of the trade. > >DSquires > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:57:24 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question: stop orders for small caps Not that many firms, whether online or not, will accept stop loss or stop limit orders on NASDAQ stocks. You are correct, the system should have prevented the entry entirely with an error message at the time, at least then you would have known. Obviously a weakness in their order entry software. There are some online firms (I think Datek is one) that will accept stop orders on OTC stocks. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: David S. Pinhasik To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 6:00 AM Subject: [CANSLIM] Question: stop orders for small caps >Upon purchasing TTILF, I set my 8% stop loss order. I use Suretrade, and the >system accepted my stop order. Then, after the market came a tumblin down, I >expected my stop to have been executed. To my surprise, the execution status >was listed as "Rejected". Suretrade quickly responded to my letter, writing >that I cannot set a stop order for small caps. >Pardon my ignorance, but could someone explain what the connection is? Do >all O/L brokers have the same policy? Why didn't I receive an error message >* AS * I entered the stop order? (That is a question probably better suited >for Suretrade, but perhaps you know) > >David > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:54:27 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re.Short Selling Well, that gives me another reason to not use Datek. That's a bad procedure. Say you have two accts there, and you mean to sell a long position in one acct and instead select the other acct. The "system" should spot this as an error, not interpret it as a short sale automatically, and so notify you. Thus, you could correct the error and do a proper long sale without being inhibited by the short sale rules. Every firm where I have worked required a formal notification that it was a short sale, and a formal borrowing of the shares before entering the order. Datek procedures strike me as, at best, sloppy. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Dan Musicant To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re.Short Selling On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:00:26 -0400, you wrote: : When you do a short sale, you must indicate it as a :short sale both so that the shares can first be borrowed, then so that :the uptick rule can be honored. But when you buy back the shares, it :is no different that a normal long purchase. : :Tom W At Datek, you simply sell a stock you don't own, and you have shorted it. You don't have to stipulate that it is a short position. This is what their online help explains. I presume, that if they don't have shares for you to borrow, the sale won't go through. Don't know about that. Then when you want to cover it is as Tom said: you just buy the same number of shares you shorted in the account you were short the shares. Dan - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:10:55 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] World Markets Looking like a nice positive recovery on the open. Futures have accelerated in the past several hours, now up nearly a percent on S&P500 and now well over a percent on the NASDAQ 100. Asia and Europe appear stable to positive. The dollar appears stronger, esp against the yen. The latest Japanese economic stimulus plan is not getting anyone excited. Fundamental change is still needed. The fear of intervention by BOJ is diminishing. Tom W - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:28:20 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] YHOO, XCIT YHOO up 5 before the opening, XCIT up 4.5. Looks like yesterday was a good day for the bottom fishers and "dipsters". Tom W - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:48:20 +0200 From: Johan Van Houtven Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] YHOO, XCIT At 09:28 AM 28/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >YHOO up 5 before the opening, XCIT up 4.5. Looks like yesterday was a >good day for the bottom fishers and "dipsters". > >Tom W Sure is. Traded DELL twice yesterday. Then loaded up about 5 mins before the close when it started to ascend and had momentum to break the intraday resistance. I could not believe what I saw this morning when ip open more than 3 points higher. Things like this shouldn't be allowed... ;^) I was so off balance that I sold it all and cashed in. Will reevalute and get a feeling again for were we are now. NOT that I want to say that anything has changed in the BIG picture! Only daytrading wise. - --- Johan Van Houtven - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:47:02 -0700 From: "Ken Davidson" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch Pschology is interesting is'nt it Tom. One of the reasons the market is = so strong this morning is that the Washington Post reported that yesterdays article from the WSJ is inacuarate as their sources say that no action wi= ll be taken at the next meeting! The article read: "New data may have eased the concerns that prompted Federal Reserve policymakers to drop their neutral stance on interest rates last month, the Washington Post reported Tuesday, quoting unnamed Fed sources. The newspaper quoted the sources as saying that the central bank=92s decision to =93lean=94 toward higher sho= rt-term rates at its March 31 meeting didn=92t necessarily mean that higher rates= were on the way soon." This still sounds like higher rates are coming like everyone already know= s but it has a nice twist to it to make people happy! Ken The information contained in this commentary is based upon data that is believed to be accurate, but is not guaranteed, and subject to change without notice. All projections, forecasts, opinions, and track records cannot be guaranteed to equal our past performance. Persons reading thi= s are responsible for their actions. Officers and employees of this publication may at times have a position in the securities mentioned, or related services. >Dave, >What amazes me is that the mkt reacted as if the concept of further >tightening by the Feds was (or should have been) a surprise! There >have been numerous articles on this, and I am on record as well, >pointing out the chances of a Fed rate reduction as somewhat worse >than the proverbial snowball in Hades. Likewise, the "economic >slowing" expected from the Asian crises has clearly not developed as >domestic consumption has continued to grow. It doesn't take rocket >science to figure out that the bias of the Fed Reserve must be towards >tightening, not lowering, the rate. > >Yet, all of a sudden, one article in WSJ creates reality and >credibility!! > >The real question for me is whether this is an example of a WSJ "Deep >Throat" within the Fed Reserve system or, as some analysts already >speculated, a deliberate leak by the Feds to slow down the bond and >stock mkt since they cannot actually raise rates in light of the lack >of any inflationary data (and the political heat that would otherwise >result) along with continued and growing economic weakness in Asia. > >I remain on record: no change at the May FOMC meeting. Earliest action >cannot occur until the July meeting, and then only if sig inflationary >evidence has been reported by then. A continuation of high employment >won't suffice, nor will minor growth in the cost of labor. > >Tom W > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dave Cameron >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 11:13 PM >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Failed rally watch > > >>That's OK - I've often claimed I'm terrible at reading "M". The >only >>oddity about all this is that it seems driven by the article in the >WSJ. >>I'm still letting the stops do the work though. I remember a >similar >>down day on Greenspan's "Irrational Exuberance" comment. I sold out >>of EVERYTHING that day - ending up with several losses. The market >>had a one-day drop, I sold at the lows, and my stocks never looked >back. >> >>There is a slight difference to the recent exuberance in that there >has >>been faltering of late. When Greenspan railed about "Irrational >Exuberance" >>we seemed to be still charging up the hill. >> >>Bottom line: If today had been down like it was with no news (no >WSJ article), >> I'd be selling several under-performers. Since >there was this >> confounding factor, I'm sticking to my stops. >> >>Dave Cameron >> > > > >- > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:54:24 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question: stop orders for small caps Just my $0.02, not that it will help you any. You get what you pay for. I had 6 stops execute exactly as I specified yesterday on ESchwab. They have only ever rejected on estop order, it wouldn't even let me enter it, and the reason was that the NASD doesn't accept stop orders for some securities, probably the problem you ran into. You won't get anywhere with them, I mailed their site and got nothing back. I see no rhyme or reason for their not accepting stops on just a few isuses, i.e. GART, which in this instance is not nearly as small as many I have put stops on, i.e. MCRI. At 12:59 PM 4/28/98 +0300, you wrote: >Upon purchasing TTILF, I set my 8% stop loss order. I use Suretrade, and the >system accepted my stop order. Then, after the market came a tumblin down, I >expected my stop to have been executed. To my surprise, the execution status >was listed as "Rejected". Suretrade quickly responded to my letter, writing >that I cannot set a stop order for small caps. >Pardon my ignorance, but could someone explain what the connection is? Do >all O/L brokers have the same policy? Why didn't I receive an error message >* AS * I entered the stop order? (That is a question probably better suited >for Suretrade, but perhaps you know) > >David > Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@orerockon.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:00:54 -0700 From: Brian Nash Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] YHOO, XCIT >>> I could not believe what I saw this morning when ip open more than 3 points higher. <<< Just an observation: if you look back to1994, when rates were last hiked significantly, cyclicals such as IP and Alcoa both performed well. > -----Original Message----- > From: Johan Van Houtven [SMTP:Johan.VanHoutven@ping.be] > Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 9:48 AM > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] YHOO, XCIT > > At 09:28 AM 28/04/98 -0400, you wrote: > >YHOO up 5 before the opening, XCIT up 4.5. Looks like yesterday was a > >good day for the bottom fishers and "dipsters". > > > >Tom W > > Sure is. > > Traded DELL twice yesterday. > > Then loaded up about 5 mins before the close when it started to ascend and > had momentum to break the intraday resistance. > > I could not believe what I saw this morning when ip open more than 3 > points > higher. > > Things like this shouldn't be allowed... ;^) > > I was so off balance that I sold it all and cashed in. Will reevalute and > get a feeling again for were we are now. NOT that I want to say that > anything has changed in the BIG picture! > Only daytrading wise. > > > > --- Johan Van Houtven > > > > - - - ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #216 ***************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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