From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #226 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 226 In this issue: [CANSLIM] its been a longtime and maybe the last time [CANSLIM] Re: Some of my recent decisions Re: [CANSLIM] Small caps on the rise? [CANSLIM] Response from DailyGraphs Online on a Group Rate (was Fw: Your request) [CANSLIM] Re: Tim [CANSLIM] News you didn't want to hear if you have oil stocks Re: [CANSLIM] Chat [CANSLIM] WON Re: [CANSLIM] WON Fw: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance [CANSLIM] charts Re: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance Re: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance [CANSLIM] Japan Re: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance Re: [CANSLIM] Japan [CANSLIM] WON's chat Re: [CANSLIM] Japan Re: [CANSLIM] Adds to my watch list Re: [CANSLIM] RCII at 52wk hi on light vol Re: [CANSLIM] Japan RE: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" Re: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:39:14 -0700 From: Harlan Subject: [CANSLIM] its been a longtime and maybe the last time To those that know me know its been a longtime since I posted here (theres a reason for that) but that usually what I post has some merits to it and usually it all comes from a good understanding of The Model Book study of the biggest winners in the last 45 yrs. and counting. For the sake of sparing a "this is a canslim list and what does this have to do with canslim" flame. This was the original study done by Bill which is where CANSLIM came from in the 1st place. So here we go. Recent movers and shakers that've broken uptrends/ in process of breaking uptrends and Reversals Ladies and Gentleman, on the following issues it seems as though ELVIS has punched out. Take a look at these issues with a 1yr chart and a 50day moving average applied to them. MEDI- Meddimune 53.125 you'll notice for the 1st time (on a closing basis) that this issue has broken its 50day moving ave going back at least to Oct. 1997 . if your considering shorting this issue you need to use a trailing stop of X% or any close above the 50day ave. (54.625) and then let it ride, allow it time to do what it wants to do. With this one we'll monitor it and let you know if it approaches the trailing stop. WFMI- Whole Foods Markets 58.25 If you look closly you'll notice that this issue is in the process of forming a head and shoulders top (THERES THAT WORD!) any break below 55.50 and its on its way (thats your neckline) although currently short term resistance is at the 50day moving ave. (63.50ish) should you take a position anywhere around here you need to use that as your trailing stop. BBY- Best Buy Whoa! I cant believe I said that! This issue has been used by me numerous times as an example of the power of what a MECHANICAL hands off system can do for you when you dont meddle with it by thinking you know more than the mkt does. Had you bought it and used the 50day as a trailing stop you took this issue from 15ish to 68ish WITHOUT IT EVER VIOLATING THE 50DAY ON A CLOSING BASIS!!! WOW!! Well guess what ( here comes that word again) this issue is in the process of forming a head and shoulders top with the neck line being completed at 64.00 Any break below 64 and it could spell bomb's away! until then this issue is flirting with a close below the 50day moving ave. at 67.5625 currently its at 68. interday it did go below it only to close back up above it by a smidge. Also this issue since it hit its peak on 4-15-98 has had a habit of a shortterm downtrend much like IMRS before it got smashed (lower lows and lower highs) So if your gonna lay out a short right here use a trailing stop of 72.00 as your guide. Any close above that number spells a reversal of the short term downtrend in place since 4-15-98. VWRX-VWR scientific 33.50 It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that this one has broken its uptrend thats been intact since Sept. 1997 In last weeks selloff in the market this one broke and broke hard, (the 50day ave that is) and when the Mkt had the recent snap back rally all this one could muster was to rally back up to the 50day and curl back over. If short this one use the 50day or X% as a trailing stop. the 50day is currently at 33.75 or a straght 5% stop from here is at 35.25 I like the 35.25 stop better because it allows for more fluctuation. PSFT- Peoplesoft 45.5 use the 50day ave as a guide this issue could easily rally back to the average at 50 dollars so thats a quick 4.5 points that this issue could rally. Me? I'll step aside for awhile and watch to see if it can run up there. HBOC- HBO co. more and more that I look at it says its tired and just has to fall out of bed once for me to want to get extremly serious about shorting this one. Stay tuned for further developments on this one. As for the S&P 500? well it looks as though it recently sold off (and an undercut) to the 50day ave and bounced then in the course of three days rallied right back up to the 1130 level which is right around the alltime highs that have been put in on 4-23 and 4-6 of 1998. So that to me is resistance. and the selloff low of 4-27-98 THUS FAR looks to be nwe support, so IF the S&P 500 did just hit its resistance at 1130.52 this last run, and was turned back well then that means we COULD come back down to the 1076 level on the S&P 500. ALSO How many of you remember the reversal 1234's of up and downtrend? those that remember? isnt that what just happened in the S&P over the last few days? 4-22 opened at 1126.67 closed at 1130.54 and up for the day 4-23 finished at the lows for the day (thats the reversal day/day one) 4-24 you guessed it closed at the low for the day (day 2) 4-27 here too closed at the low for the day,but more importantly hit the 50day and stalled its decent. It was on this day that if you read in between the lines the leaders were starting to stabilize and and actually go up. 4-28 this was what i think we'd call an inside day, with most of you leaders on the move. That was your signal that we were done going down 4-29 Day one/reversal of the shortterm downtrend and we closed at the high for the day. 4-30 Day 2 closed at the high for the day 5-1 Day 3 here too closed at the high for the day 5-2 Reversal day ! at the open we followed thru to the upside only to finish at or near the lows for the day. So if you follow the track what COULD that spell for tommorow? down? its possible, to where? how bout those prior lows of last week for a retest. just remember 1234 reversal 1234 reversal. Usually the way it works is on the 3rd to 4th day of a reversal (extremly shorterm uptrend or downtrend) thats about the time you start to see some stabilization or deterioration of the leaders make sense? Use you own judgement just calling it as I see it, this is by no means a recomendation of any sort, simply a use it if you can type of post. Should you want a more in depth on any of this email me personally. Sincerly, Harlan - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:39:35 -0400 From: olafur.josefsson@analog.com (Oli Josefsson) Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: Some of my recent decisions Dave Cameron, I had a similar experience with TMBS and USNA as you except that I was shaken out of both with losses (stop rule). I bough TMBS twice as a matter a fact only to be shaken out both times. I could have made good money had I kept them. I sold my second purchase of TMBS the day before the IBD article. How is that for timing... I sold partly because the way the stocks were behaving (kept gapping down) as well as because of other factors I have forgotten (there has been insider selling of TMBS , for example). I have actually had two other similar bad luck occurences recently where I purhcased a stock one day (LHSPF) and only to see it drop 10% a day later because of some analysts comments (forcing me out) only to recoup in a few days and post great gains since.... The other one dropped over 10% a few days after I bought it when Intel announced it would start competing with the company I bought (TXDF)... I sold in a hurry after that, but boy did that hurt. Neither of these stocks were bought based on CANSLIM. However, I want to point at one of my holdings to the list: KELL I have mentioned this one to the list before. I do not have the camslim stats here at work - I will have to study them again tonight. KELL just reported great earnings and at the end of today somebody started accumulating KELL in small chunks at a time. Stock was up about 7% today on 2x avg volume. Base looks good. The two negatives that I see with the company is limited insider ownership and sizeable debt. Comments on Kell ? Oli. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:33:09 -0800 From: "Patrick Wahl" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Small caps on the rise? > Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 06:58:03 -0700 > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > From: Tim Fisher > Other stock-pickers said network storage software maker Legato Systems Inc > (LGTO - news) and applications software outsource company Information > Management Resources Inc. (IMRS - news) are potential standouts. > > Legato closed at 31-6/16, while Information Management closed at 29. Legato made a nice move from 23-33 or so (46-66 before it split, somehow that seems bigger), so I think it needs a rest for a while. Earnings and revenues increasing at a good clip, roughly up 60% per quarter year over year. They would seem to be in a good business, from the little I know of it - "develops, markets, and supports an integrated set of enterprise storage managment software products for heterogeneouis client/server computing environments." - -from the annual report. In English, what I think they are doing is providing a way to back up the data on servers, such as database information, and generally managing the data you have on disk, archiving unneeded stuff while keeping it readily accessible. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:14:53 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] Response from DailyGraphs Online on a Group Rate (was Fw: Your request) Well, at least they didn't say "no". But looks like we could be without service for at least a short time till we know something. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Daily Graphs To: stkguru@netside.net Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 3:32 PM Subject: Your request >Tom Worley, >We just want to let you know that your e-mail has been received, and has >been passed on to Sr. Management. Because we are in the midst of our launch, >we are not going to make any immediate decisions; I'm sure you understand >this is a very hectic time for us. Your request will be given serious >consideration by the Board of Directors, and you should be hearing from us >in about 2-3 weeks if we will or will not able to work something out. Thank >you very much for all of your support and input, and for testing our service >from the beginning. All of your comments have been greatly appreciated! > >Daily Graphs Online > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:36:30 -0700 (PDT) From: dbphoenix Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: Tim <> You're not losing your mind, Tim. The information you're looking for is in Chapter 4, not Chapter 6. And O'N does look for a large percentage of ownership by top management. - --Db _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:40:01 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] News you didn't want to hear if you have oil stocks Iran just shook up the OPEC agreement to cut production. Its April production (3.875 million barrels/day) was about 8% (302,000 barrels) higher than it should have been under the agreement to cut back. Tom W - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:56:59 -0400 From: "Tony Austin" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Chat Don't forget the William O'Neil chat..... - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:03:44 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] WON For those they may have forgotten, Wm O'Neill is on live at the Schwab forum. Tom W - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:10:52 -0500 From: "Joe Scott" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] WON This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BD7861.E768AE40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom, do you have the addy please? don't know a thing joe joe@2fords.net http://www.2fords.net/joe/ - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BD7861.E768AE40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tom, do you have the addy = please?
 
don't know a thing
joe
 
joe@2fords.net
http://www.2fords.net/joe/<= /DIV> - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BD7861.E768AE40-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:33:11 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Fw: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance Joe, probably too late, but here's the info. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Worley To: CANSLIM Date: Saturday, May 02, 1998 2:31 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance >For those that may not subscribe to IBD, or missed the ad, Wm O'Neill >will host an online discussion "Investment Research and Decision >Making" courtesy of Schwab on Tuesday, May 5, at 9PM EST. All >investors are welcome at no cost. However, you need to visit these web >locations beforehand to download the software. > >www.excite.com/schwabforums >www.armchairmillionaire.com/ibd > >I tried the first, and was not able to access it. I then went to >armchairmillionaire.com and registered, but could not then download >the software (you need to do both). I will keep trying. > >Tom W > > > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:35:31 -0800 From: "Patrick Wahl" Subject: [CANSLIM] charts I've been trying to get the hang of this internet stuff, so I put an internet page up. Decided I might as well try to be useful, so from time to time I will put a stock chart there that seems interesting. Don't know how long I will maintain this thing, but its there for now anyway. Tonight put a chart of Kellstrom out there. Address is http://home.att.net/~pwahl - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:41:38 -0400 From: "K Strauss" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance Probably not too late if your browser supports Java (IE4 for example). I forgot and just signed on to www.excite.com/schwabforums about ten minutes ago with no preregistration. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem much useful content... - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Worley To: CANSLIM Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:39 PM Subject: Fw: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance >Joe, probably too late, but here's the info. > >Tom W > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tom Worley >To: CANSLIM >Date: Saturday, May 02, 1998 2:31 PM >Subject: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance > > >>For those that may not subscribe to IBD, or missed the ad, Wm O'Neill >>will host an online discussion "Investment Research and Decision >>Making" courtesy of Schwab on Tuesday, May 5, at 9PM EST. All >>investors are welcome at no cost. However, you need to visit these >web >>locations beforehand to download the software. >> >>www.excite.com/schwabforums >>www.armchairmillionaire.com/ibd >> >>I tried the first, and was not able to access it. I then went to >>armchairmillionaire.com and registered, but could not then download >>the software (you need to do both). I will keep trying. >> >>Tom W >> >> >> >> >>- >> > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:01:28 -0400 From: "Tony Austin" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance Sort of oriented around basic can slim issues so far, nothing new. - ---------- > From: K Strauss > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance > Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:41 PM > > Probably not too late if your browser supports Java (IE4 for example). I > forgot and just signed on to www.excite.com/schwabforums about ten minutes > ago with no preregistration. > > Unfortunately, there doesn't seem much useful content... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Worley > To: CANSLIM > Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:39 PM > Subject: Fw: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance > > > >Joe, probably too late, but here's the info. > > > >Tom W > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Tom Worley > >To: CANSLIM > >Date: Saturday, May 02, 1998 2:31 PM > >Subject: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance > > > > > >>For those that may not subscribe to IBD, or missed the ad, Wm O'Neill > >>will host an online discussion "Investment Research and Decision > >>Making" courtesy of Schwab on Tuesday, May 5, at 9PM EST. All > >>investors are welcome at no cost. However, you need to visit these > >web > >>locations beforehand to download the software. > >> > >>www.excite.com/schwabforums > >>www.armchairmillionaire.com/ibd > >> > >>I tried the first, and was not able to access it. I then went to > >>armchairmillionaire.com and registered, but could not then download > >>the software (you need to do both). I will keep trying. > >> > >>Tom W > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>- > >> > > > > > >- > > > > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:28:07 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] Japan Well, so much for a two day holiday in Japan, now down 470 pts (3%) and appears to be helping drag the rest of Asia with it. Hope the mkts, and the futures, look better in the morning. Tom W - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:39:00 -0500 From: "Joe Scott" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] WON guest appearance This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BD7876.98C58F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Tom,=20 caught some of the end,=20 was moving to slow to keep my interest. don't know a thing joe joe@2fords.net http://www.2fords.net/joe/ - ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BD7876.98C58F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Tom,
caught some of the end,
was moving to slow to keep my = interest.
 
don't know a thing
joe
 
joe@2fords.net
http://www.2fords.net/joe/<= /DIV>
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BD7876.98C58F00-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:45:18 -0500 From: "Joe Scott" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Japan This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BD7877.7A2C3200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Me to, about "on the market looking better in the morning". I came back from vacation to one position that had moved up nicely while = I was away, EMC, sold it.=20 Should have stayed flat, but couldn't help myself, and violated the big = "M" and put on two positions today, both non-canslim. You would think I would learn, (maybe an electric collar)? don't know a thing joe joe@2fords.net http://www.2fords.net/joe/ - ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BD7877.7A2C3200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Me to, about "on the market looking = better in the=20 morning".
I came back from vacation to one position = that had=20 moved up nicely while I was away, EMC, sold it.
Should have stayed flat, but couldn't help = myself, and=20 violated the big "M" and put on two positions today, both=20 non-canslim.
You would think I would learn, (maybe an = electric=20 collar)?
 
don't know a thing
joe
 
joe@2fords.net
http://www.2fords.net/joe/<= /DIV> - ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BD7877.7A2C3200-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:43:35 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] WON's chat Of what I was able to catch (the site kept locking up on me and had to power off and reboot my PC!!!), there was not a lot of new info. These were the notes I was able to take: Asked about the best software to use for scanning for stocks, WON indicated that 3-4 providers do advertise in IBD, but he doesn't use them, then led into a commercial break for DGO going commercial next week. I asked about management ownership, his response was that there should be at least 4% ownership, and you want more. He considers mngmt ownership an important part of "I". I didn't read him as setting any upper limit. He says you should always have an RS of 80 or better, and sell based on price and overall conditions. That if RS continues to deteriorates it may indicate a selling environment. He mentioned that the average RS of "leaders" was 87 before they doubled. Came into the middle of a comment, which ended with "economic numbers do not predict the stock market, follow the Dow, S&P, Nasdaq, Fed Reserve Board movements, and individual stock selections and group selections". (urrggg!!, guess I will try to stifle some of my economic forecasting!!) He talked about the second confirmation of a reversal (mostly from a downtrend) being between the 4th and 7th day AND MUST SHOW POWER ON THE WAY UP which he defined as up 1% and with volume increasing from the prior day. Notable quote from WON: "hope when we fear, and fear when we hope" in talking about mkt "sentiment". Commented on a cup and handle, that the buy point is the peak in the handle which could be 5-10% below the old high. Asked about a new edition of HTMMIS, mentioned that his publishers want him to write a new book, and may bring out a "workbook" in several years. I likely missed a lot of the good stuff, certainly missed a major part of the "chat" with my computer problems, but this was what I was able to watch. Tom W - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:50:59 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Japan Better approach is the "electronic fences" they have for dogs, if we could just put a collar on each "dog" stock!!. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Joe Scott To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Japan Me to, about "on the market looking better in the morning". I came back from vacation to one position that had moved up nicely while I was away, EMC, sold it. Should have stayed flat, but couldn't help myself, and violated the big "M" and put on two positions today, both non-canslim. You would think I would learn, (maybe an electric collar)? don't know a thing joe joe@2fords.net http://www.2fords.net/joe/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:02:11 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Adds to my watch list Sorry, Tim, but I am still not scared of a stock with strong management ownership, and intend to continue to use DGO data instead of Zack's. May not be perfect, but works better and more consistently for me, and when I see an obvious problem in their data feed, at least they will investigate and fix it, as well as respond on it. And despite a down day, all four of my new "picks" (KTIE, NEWH, RENG, SNHY) closed up 1.29%, 1.73%, 4.17%, and 0.42% respectively, so guess I am not going to change my "style" of picking just yet (and SNHY was the lowest of the four in its gains). Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Tim Fisher To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Adds to my watch list >Here's what I get from March data (Zacks still had March when I looked on >Sunday. Who would pay for that kind of service?). NEWH looks to be >controlled by mgmt., and ignoring all the N/A's (Zacks data is nothing if >not sketchy!) I don't see much here, except maybe SNHY. > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:38:40 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RCII at 52wk hi on light vol Tim, hopefully you didn't jump in. Looks like (per DGO) that ADV is 128,800 and did only 106,300. Today's "M" didn't help. DGO shows management at 39%, funds at 27% and banks at 9% on an issue of 28.1 mil shares and a float of 15.1 million. Still, looks like it wants to break higher, just stalled out thanks to the profit taking/mini correction today. Did break a new high before stalling. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Tim Fisher To: canslim@mail.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:59 AM Subject: [CANSLIM] RCII at 52wk hi on light vol >March data follows, it's at 25% of ADV at 10AM market time, might jump the >gun and get it if it holds up till I get to work. > >RETAIL-MISC/DIV Renters Choice >TICKER RCII >EXCHANGE NSDQ >X SECTOR 3 >X INDUSTRY 165 >24WK PCHG% 26.67 >TREND EPGR 58.82 >QEPS 0/-4 38.10 >QEPS -1/-5 42.11 >QEPS -2/-6 47.06 >TREND SALE 63.98 >P/E 12M 25.36 >ROI 14.97 >D/Equity 17.79 >PEG F1 0.90 >% INSIDERS 44.77 >% INSTITUT 46.21 > >Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists >Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site >PFB Information >mailto:tim@orerockon.com >WWW http://OreRockOn.com > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 04:41:14 GMT From: musicant@autobahn.org (Dan Musicant) Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Japan On Tue, 5 May 1998 23:28:07 -0400, you wrote: :Well, so much for a two day holiday in Japan, now down 470 pts (3%) :and appears to be helping drag the rest of Asia with it. Hope the :mkts, and the futures, look better in the morning. : :Tom W : Well, if the economy tanks in Japan, your $ will probably go a lot farther in Japan, am I wrong? I heard on Sunday about the 7.7 quake off Okinawa and wondered if it would send the markets into a tailspin. I've been feeling that the markets don't need too much of an excuse to correct...witness the reaction to the WSJ article a week ago yesterday. Futures don't look very good right now, 8 hours before market open. Dan - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:00:01 -0400 From: Larry Horn Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD78C4.FC3CAD40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This discussion has been helpful. I have been using criteria for %Mgmt = and %Instit that I got from a tape that came with my IBD subscription, = "Investing to Win" an interview with David Ryan, which explains CANSLIM. = On the tape, he says that %Mgmt is important because it shows that the = company believes in what they are doing. He recommended that %Mgmt not = be over 50% because then the co can act more like it's private. On the = low end, he said that %Mgmt should be at least 15%. This is pretty = restrictive and has been knocking out about a third to half of the cos = in my first pass screen. I think I'll find better charts if I don't use = this as an absolute criteria.=20 Similarly with %Instit, he recommends "some institutional ownership, at = least 1-2%" but it should usually be sold by the time it hits 30% when = everyone knows about it. He said that when it's too high, it can make = the stock riskier. Using this as an absolute criteria is very = restrictive and knocks out the majority of cos in my screen. Again, I = think I need to look at the charts before looking at both of these = numbers. Isn't %mgmt just (shares outstanding-float)/shares outstanding??? The = times I've checked different sources with different numbers they had = different floats (if they were listed anyway). The data from I mentioned from the tape is from notes I took while = listening to it. I hope it is accurate. Larry Horn - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Worley [SMTP:stkguru@netside.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 6:09 AM To: CANSLIM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" Dan, go back and look at the original post. The "3%" is the ownership by management, the 18% is the funds percentage of the float and the 7% is the bank's percentage of the float. All per DGO. If you wanted to calculate the institutional holdings on MLHR, it would be .18 plus .07 times the float. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Dan Musicant To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" :>DVI 27% ? ? not in the books :>MLHR 18% 3% 7% DGO shows MLHR at 18% owned by funds, 7% by banks. 18+7=3D3? Not last time I checked. 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AEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAA AAADAA00/TcAAI1D - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD78C4.FC3CAD40-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:20:54 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" It is frustrating to me that all sites don't have at least similar, if not identical, data on mgnmt and inst holdings. Considering the time lag between ownership, and the reporting of it (which can be easily a month or more), I would never throw out a chart just because it doesn't show any funds holdings, esp if it has been under accumulation for more than a day or so. If you can find a website that provides data on large block trading, you might check that for any trades that are several times the ADV (if it's real low) or say, over 100,000 if there is good liquidity. This might help you spot an institutional buying or selling. You can also check the SEC site for 144 filings, showing insiders (but not necessarily present management) preparing to sell (or having already done so). One problem with the data lies in how "management" is defined vs "insiders". If the company did an acquisition for stock, the sellors of the acquired company become "insiders", but may or may not become part of the management team. Usually this stock is locked up for at least 90 days if they don't join mngmt, and for up to two years if they do join. I probably don't put as much weight on "I" as I should. Basically, mngmt ownership is more important to me as I am focused on small cap stocks, which tend to be relatively young cos, where mngmt typically will still own a large share. I agree with WON/Ryan's theory on not wanting a company where mngmt owns over 50%, but I looks at results first, then at whether there is a risk of them treating the co as if it were "private". If they are producing the results in terms of earnings and revenue growth, I don't care if they are taking huge salaries or giving themselves great perks. What counts is what they still bring to the bottom line. To me, there is little difference between a company with 0% funds ownership and one with 3 or 4%. In many cases, that only represents the difference between no funds ownership and one small cap fund making its first tenative purchase. And that can happen with no warning. If everything else looks great, sooner or later the funds will find it, and by then I want to already own it. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Larry Horn To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 7:58 AM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" This discussion has been helpful. I have been using criteria for %Mgmt and %Instit that I got from a tape that came with my IBD subscription, "Investing to Win" an interview with David Ryan, which explains CANSLIM. On the tape, he says that %Mgmt is important because it shows that the company believes in what they are doing. He recommended that %Mgmt not be over 50% because then the co can act more like it's private. On the low end, he said that %Mgmt should be at least 15%. This is pretty restrictive and has been knocking out about a third to half of the cos in my first pass screen. I think I'll find better charts if I don't use this as an absolute criteria. Similarly with %Instit, he recommends "some institutional ownership, at least 1-2%" but it should usually be sold by the time it hits 30% when everyone knows about it. He said that when it's too high, it can make the stock riskier. Using this as an absolute criteria is very restrictive and knocks out the majority of cos in my screen. Again, I think I need to look at the charts before looking at both of these numbers. Isn't %mgmt just (shares outstanding-float)/shares outstanding??? The times I've checked different sources with different numbers they had different floats (if they were listed anyway). The data from I mentioned from the tape is from notes I took while listening to it. I hope it is accurate. Larry Horn - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Worley [SMTP:stkguru@netside.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 6:09 AM To: CANSLIM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" Dan, go back and look at the original post. The "3%" is the ownership by management, the 18% is the funds percentage of the float and the 7% is the bank's percentage of the float. All per DGO. If you wanted to calculate the institutional holdings on MLHR, it would be .18 plus .07 times the float. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Dan Musicant To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: "I" :>DVI 27% ? ? not in the books :>MLHR 18% 3% 7% DGO shows MLHR at 18% owned by funds, 7% by banks. 18+7=3? Not last time I checked. Dan - - - - - - ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #226 ***************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.