From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #326 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Wednesday, July 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 326 In this issue: [CANSLIM] More B/o's: SYMX, CDWC, THQI [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings [CANSLIM] HCFP & SHOO - What to make of it? Re: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings Re: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings Re: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings Re: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings Re: [CANSLIM] SYMX EPS [CANSLIM] Noise - Markets - Don Hayes Commentary [CANSLIM] SYMX RE: [CANSLIM] SYMX EPS [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. [CANSLIM] SYMX Redux [CANSLIM] "M" [CANSLIM] Re. BOSA Re: [CANSLIM] SYMX RE: [CANSLIM] SYMX EPS Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Re: [CANSLIM] SYMX Redux Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. RE: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:39:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Fisher Subject: [CANSLIM] More B/o's: SYMX, CDWC, THQI All appear legitimate, all on 1.5+ ADV, the best base is SYMX, CDWC coming off a long slow slide, THQI hasn't had time to base out quite yet. All make my Killer CASLI scan... Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:59:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Fisher Subject: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings A little late, but here's the rankings for the scan results I gave last week. COMPANY Tick Exch EPS GR %0Q % -1Q % 24wk % GRS RS Total Score Thq Inc THQI NSDQ 98% 99% 96% 89% 93% 95% Timberline Soft TMBS NSDQ 84% 95% 87% 91% 94% 90% Ciber Inc CBR NYSE 86% 74% 79% 80% 85% 81% Symix Systems SYMX NSDQ 93% 88% 58% 79% 84% 80% Fastenal FAST NSDQ 87% 75% 62% 61% 75% 72% Harbinger Corp HRBC NSDQ 97% 74% 78% 57% 54% 72% Imperial Bcp IMP NYSE 100% 91% 93% 32% 40% 71% Jack Henry Assc JKHY NSDQ 60% 57% 57% 72% 75% 64% Theragenics Cp THRX NSDQ 95% 93% 94% 17% 8% 61% Mrv Comms Inc MRVC NSDQ 94% 70% 68% 36% 25% 58% Cdw Comptr Ctrs CDWC NSDQ 95% 66% 64% 26% 40% 58% Comp Task TSK NYSE 84% 67% 70% 38% 27% 57% Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:03:52 -0400 From: "Frank V. Wolynski" Subject: [CANSLIM] HCFP & SHOO - What to make of it? SHOO, ADV is picking up slowly, while it is basing. Coming up on a daily oversold Stochastic. This should put it once again just beneath the 50day MOV and above the 200day MOV. Does the volume picking up bother anyone? I read it as accumulation, your mileage may vary. Weekly chart in a nice trend, growing strength. HCFP, daily stochastic just went through a buy, but the daily MACD histogram is a bit more negative. The weekly MACD histogram is growing more negative. The volume seems to be flattening out. It's losing some RS against the S&P. Seems to want to base or go lower at this juncture. SPLS has been a nice treat huh? Still looking very strong! Well behaved! Frank Wolynski - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:08:42 -0400 From: "Frank V. Wolynski" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings Really like the TMBS chart. SYMX is looking very nice also, any idea who they are and what they do? Frank Wolynski At 19:59 7/14/98 -0700, Tim Fisher wrote: >A little late, but here's the rankings for the scan results I gave last week. > >COMPANY Tick Exch EPS GR %0Q % -1Q % 24wk % GRS RS Total Score > Thq Inc THQI NSDQ 98% 99% 96% 89% 93% 95% > Timberline Soft TMBS NSDQ 84% 95% 87% 91% 94% 90% > Ciber Inc CBR NYSE 86% 74% 79% 80% 85% 81% > Symix Systems SYMX NSDQ 93% 88% 58% 79% 84% 80% > Fastenal FAST NSDQ 87% 75% 62% 61% 75% 72% > Harbinger Corp HRBC NSDQ 97% 74% 78% 57% 54% 72% > Imperial Bcp IMP NYSE 100% 91% 93% 32% 40% 71% > Jack Henry Assc JKHY NSDQ 60% 57% 57% 72% 75% 64% > Theragenics Cp THRX NSDQ 95% 93% 94% 17% 8% 61% > Mrv Comms Inc MRVC NSDQ 94% 70% 68% 36% 25% 58% > Cdw Comptr Ctrs CDWC NSDQ 95% 66% 64% 26% 40% 58% > Comp Task TSK NYSE 84% 67% 70% 38% 27% 57% > >Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists >Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site >PFB Information >mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com >WWW http://OreRockOn.com > > >- > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:08:42 -0400 From: "Frank V. Wolynski" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings Really like the TMBS chart. SYMX is looking very nice also, any idea who they are and what they do? Frank Wolynski At 19:59 7/14/98 -0700, Tim Fisher wrote: >A little late, but here's the rankings for the scan results I gave last week. > >COMPANY Tick Exch EPS GR %0Q % -1Q % 24wk % GRS RS Total Score > Thq Inc THQI NSDQ 98% 99% 96% 89% 93% 95% > Timberline Soft TMBS NSDQ 84% 95% 87% 91% 94% 90% > Ciber Inc CBR NYSE 86% 74% 79% 80% 85% 81% > Symix Systems SYMX NSDQ 93% 88% 58% 79% 84% 80% > Fastenal FAST NSDQ 87% 75% 62% 61% 75% 72% > Harbinger Corp HRBC NSDQ 97% 74% 78% 57% 54% 72% > Imperial Bcp IMP NYSE 100% 91% 93% 32% 40% 71% > Jack Henry Assc JKHY NSDQ 60% 57% 57% 72% 75% 64% > Theragenics Cp THRX NSDQ 95% 93% 94% 17% 8% 61% > Mrv Comms Inc MRVC NSDQ 94% 70% 68% 36% 25% 58% > Cdw Comptr Ctrs CDWC NSDQ 95% 66% 64% 26% 40% 58% > Comp Task TSK NYSE 84% 67% 70% 38% 27% 57% > >Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists >Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site >PFB Information >mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com >WWW http://OreRockOn.com > > >- > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:17:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings At 11:08 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Really like the TMBS chart. SYMX is looking very nice also, any idea who >they are and what they do? > >Frank Wolynski > Symix Systems, Inc. designs, develops, markets and supports a fully integrated manufacturing, planning and financial software system. For the nine months ended 3/31/98, revenues rose 48% to $65.9 million. Net loss totalled $3.7 million vs. income of $1.7 million. Revenues reflect software license fee growth from the North American and European markets, the Pritsker acquisition and increased customer base. Loss reflects a $6.5 million charge for the 11/97 Pritsker acquisition. Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:23:52 -0700 (PDT) From: rolatzi Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CASLI Killer Rankings The chart fro SYMX is beautiful and it is breaking out but the financials are somewhat mixed. Does anyone know the source of the large loss previous quarter. is it a result of the acquisition and non-recurring? If so, what do people think about it's financials. Here's a short description of their business: Symix Systems, Inc. NASD: SYMX Industry: Sector: Software & Programming Technology Symix Systems, Inc. designs, develops, markets and supports a fully integrated manufacturing, planning and financial software system. For the 9 months ended 3/31/98, revenues rose 48% to $65.9M. Net loss totalled $3.7M vs. income of $1.7M. Revenues reflect software license fee growth from the North American and European markets, the Pritsker acquisition and increased customer base. Loss reflects a $6.5M charge for the 11/97 Pritsker acquisition. - ---"Frank V. Wolynski" wrote: > > Really like the TMBS chart. SYMX is looking very nice also, any idea who > they are and what they do? > > Frank Wolynski > > At 19:59 7/14/98 -0700, Tim Fisher wrote: > >A little late, but here's the rankings for the scan results I gave last week. > > > >COMPANY Tick Exch EPS GR %0Q % -1Q % 24wk % GRS RS Total Score > > Thq Inc THQI NSDQ 98% 99% 96% 89% 93% 95% > > Timberline Soft TMBS NSDQ 84% 95% 87% 91% 94% 90% > > Ciber Inc CBR NYSE 86% 74% 79% 80% 85% 81% > > Symix Systems SYMX NSDQ 93% 88% 58% 79% 84% 80% > > Fastenal FAST NSDQ 87% 75% 62% 61% 75% 72% > > Harbinger Corp HRBC NSDQ 97% 74% 78% 57% 54% 72% > > Imperial Bcp IMP NYSE 100% 91% 93% 32% 40% 71% > > Jack Henry Assc JKHY NSDQ 60% 57% 57% 72% 75% 64% > > Theragenics Cp THRX NSDQ 95% 93% 94% 17% 8% 61% > > Mrv Comms Inc MRVC NSDQ 94% 70% 68% 36% 25% 58% > > Cdw Comptr Ctrs CDWC NSDQ 95% 66% 64% 26% 40% 58% > > Comp Task TSK NYSE 84% 67% 70% 38% 27% 57% > > > >Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists > >Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site > >PFB Information > >mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com > >WWW http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > >- > > > > > > - > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:35:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SYMX EPS My data removes the one-time charge, like DGO does. Therefore, there is no loss; there is a $0.09/share profit (125% over the SQLY). At 08:23 PM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote: > >The chart fro SYMX is beautiful and it is breaking out but the >financials are somewhat mixed. Does anyone know the source of the >large loss previous quarter. is it a result of the acquisition and >non-recurring? If so, what do people think about it's financials. Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:02:49 -0400 From: "Frank V. Wolynski" Subject: [CANSLIM] Noise - Markets - Don Hayes Commentary It's free and he is well respected. http://www.wheatfirst.com/mktcom/mktcomh.html Frank Wolynski - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) From: dbphoenix Subject: [CANSLIM] SYMX Congratulations on SYMX, Tim. Let's hope it lasts for more than a few hours. - --Db _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:06:32 -0700 From: "Rich Mau" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] SYMX EPS > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Tim Fisher > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 8:35 PM > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SYMX EPS > > > My data removes the one-time charge, like DGO does. Therefore, there is no > loss; there is a $0.09/share profit (125% over the SQLY). > > At 08:23 PM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote: > > > >The chart for SYMX is beautiful and it is breaking out but the > >financials are somewhat mixed. Does anyone know the source of the > >large loss previous quarter. is it a result of the acquisition and > >non-recurring? If so, what do people think about it's financials. From SYMX's May 14, 1998 10-Q ( http://sec.yahoo.com/e/980514/symx.html ) "As a result of the acquisition of Pritsker Corporation, which was completed during the second quarter ended December 31, 1997, the Company realized a non-recurring charge of $6.5 million relating to the write-off of acquired in-process technology. Excluding the one time charge for the nine months ended March 31, 1998, net income increased 63% to $2.8 million with earnings per share increasing to $0.41 compared to $0.29 a year ago. " - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:17:20 -0400 From: Paul Gilberti Subject: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. My online broker has the following in its FAQ: Whenever a stock is purchased and sold without paying for it (the credit from the sale does not apply), the account where the trades were executed will be restricted for 90 days under Federal Reserve Regulation T. A restricted account will not be allowed to establish or create a debit balance. I'm trying to understand what this means. I have a cash account. 1) If I am long in XYZ and decide to sell it, can I immediately turn around and use the proceeds to purchase ABC ? And then an hour later, can I sell ABC and buy DEF ? Or does this rule imply a waiting period ? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:26:45 -0700 (PDT) From: dbphoenix Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. <> As I understand it (and I may not), if you have a cash account then the cost of the stock is deducted from your cash balance. If you then sell it and want to buy something else, you cannot do so until the trade settles, unless you have enough cash in your account to cover the new purchase. Therefore, if you trade frequently, you wind up leap-frogging yourself. Cash accounts cannot carry a debit balance. All this can be solved by changing your account to a margin account. Even if you never go on margin per se, you'll be able to buy and sell without regard for the settlement period. It's sort of like using a credit card for overdraft protection against your checking account. - --Db _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:50:45 -0400 From: Sam Funchess Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. You may want to sent this to Tom W. at stkguru@netside.com He Would be able to answer most broker questions you may have. Sam Paul Gilberti wrote: > My online broker has the following in its FAQ: > > Whenever a stock is purchased and sold without paying for it > (the credit from the sale > does not apply), the account where the trades were executed will > be restricted for 90 > days under Federal Reserve Regulation T. A restricted account > will not be allowed to > establish or create a debit balance. > > I'm trying to understand what this means. I have a cash account. > > 1) If I am long in XYZ and decide to sell it, can I immediately turn > around and use the proceeds to > purchase ABC ? And then an hour later, can I sell ABC and buy DEF > ? > Or does this rule imply a waiting period ? > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:21:05 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Paul, "Reg T" simply put requires that a trade be paid for by settlement, and you cannot use the cash from a sale of that security to pay for its prior buy (e.g. if you buy $1000 worth of ABC and sell it later that day or over the next several, the proceeds from that sale cannot be used to apply against the amount due on settlement day). db is partially correct in that if you do this on margin, many firms because of the way their computers analyze the accts won't catch this and penalize you. Violating this rule is commonly referred to as "free riding", in other words, you bot the stock and took mkt risk without actually risking your own money. If this was the only item in the acct, potentially you might not pay for it and if the stock had gone down, the firm and the broker would have to cover the loss. This is why the rule was created. When you free ride, the firm has the right to cancel the original buy unless the trade is paid for by settlement, even if the stock went up. Thus you are risking losing the profit if you are correct, should the firm wish to do this. When you sell a new purchase prior to or on settlement day for the buy, it is a Reg T violation and the acct will be restricted for 90 days unless there is sufficient cash available within the acct (without using the sale proceeds) to settle the trade. However, if you make full payment by settlement (not a day later) then the restriction should be lifted within one business day after payment. Technically, if you buy a stock and plan to pay for it by selling another one, you should do the sale the same day or prior to the day you do the buy. Otherwise, the proceeds from the sale will not be "settled funds" by the settlement day of the new buy. On the other hand, if you are paying for the buy by selling options (which have a 1 day settlement period vice a stock's 3 day settlement) then you could sell the options the day prior to settlement and be ok. Back to lurking. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Sam Funchess To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. >You may want to sent this to Tom W. at stkguru@netside.com He Would be able >to answer most broker questions you may have. > >Sam > >Paul Gilberti wrote: > >> My online broker has the following in its FAQ: >> >> Whenever a stock is purchased and sold without paying for it >> (the credit from the sale >> does not apply), the account where the trades were executed will >> be restricted for 90 >> days under Federal Reserve Regulation T. A restricted account >> will not be allowed to >> establish or create a debit balance. >> >> I'm trying to understand what this means. I have a cash account. >> >> 1) If I am long in XYZ and decide to sell it, can I immediately turn >> around and use the proceeds to >> purchase ABC ? And then an hour later, can I sell ABC and buy DEF >> ? >> Or does this rule imply a waiting period ? >> >> - > > > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:01:53 -0700 (PDT) From: dbphoenix Subject: [CANSLIM] SYMX Redux OK, Tim. A couple of points is nice. But 4+ points is showing off :) - --Db _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:20:42 -0400 From: Jeffry White <"postwhit@sover.net"@sover.net> Subject: [CANSLIM] "M" > Don't we have to have distribution days on the way up? Or do we just > go straight up? > > What are the clues we should look for? Distribution days are not unusual as we move up, in fact, as Ari suggests, they are quite normal. We don't "go straight up." WON cautions, however, that distribution is difficult to spot because it takes place "as the market advances". True, but sometimes distribution days are nothing more than an "altitude adjustment" for the index. A rest in the advance, if you will. Key is to reckon where and under what circumstances the distribution days become indicitave of a short to intermediate term correction/consolidation? What are the "clues"? That's a bit involved with the time I have to post this evening. But taking today as an example, we saw higher volume in the Nasdaq Composite than yesterday, the range was significantly narrower than we've seen of late, and we closed in the lower half of the day's range. Doesn't need to be a negative close, like the Nas 100, which is a clearer type price bar for a reversal type distribution day (don't know if you can get volume on it). Just need a narrow range, and insignificant price improvement in light of the increased volume. I would typically consider a distribution day at this place in the chart a probable non-event (I wouldn't get off margin, etc.), but I'd start watching to see if the index chart starts going sideways, and then watch for more distribution. I'd also be watching the sentiment numbers which have snapped back to bullish pretty quickly from the late April extremes. Finally, I'd monitor the "leaders", which could be a bit difficult this time around because there really hasn't been clear leadership in this move (other than those pesky net stocks), as far as I've been able to determine. Could use some help here from Frank or Db or Johann who've been watching the groups more ably than I. By default, DELL is a good one to watch. MSFT, too. This particular "distribution day" is far more subjective than I care to admit, but I'll stick with my call. At least until I can get a chart tomorrow morning. These non-reversal type distribution days are always a hard call, for me. Hope I'm not being influenced by my head here, but I've got this unsettled feeling with the RUT refusing to participate (my smaller issues are churning around), the DOW finally up near all time highs (if not there) after a month long rally in the NAS and SP, and the breadth is and has been pitiful. Objectively, however, none of the indicators I watch would suggest a major change in market direction in the immediate future. Best of luck JW - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:25:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Nachewn Wu Subject: [CANSLIM] Re. BOSA Peter, First, thank you for the watch list! I get the digest version so the earliest I could get to your list was last night. >From just looking at the charts, I liked bosa, clys, dhi and kbh the most. Bosa seemed the most promising. I then went to yahoo for recent news, Bosa has declared a 3 for 2 split during the day, 7/13. I was worried that I may be buying the news. I would like very much your input on how one weight this kind of last minute info, thanks! BTW, kbh traded huge vol yesterday and above your pivot pt. But I ended up getting a small positions in dhi today at 24 3/16. Rita _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:58:45 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SYMX Hey how did you know I bot it? Do you have my Schwab password? I actually= came this close --><-- to buying CDWC (although it is unchanged at the moment). Sometimes I _can_ resist the urge to but the beaten-down! At 07:48 AM 7/15/98 , you wrote: > >Congratulations on SYMX, Tim.=A0 Let's hope it lasts for more than a few >hours. > >--Db > Tim Fisher Ore-Rock-On and Pacific Fishery Biologists WWW Sites mailto:Tim@OreRockOn.com WWW: http://OreRockOn.com See naked fish and rocks! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:44:16 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] SYMX EPS You are comparing 9-month (fiscal YTD) EPS to quarterly (3-month) EPS.= Apples and oranges... At 09:06 AM 7/15/98 , you wrote: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xm ission.com]On Behalf Of Tim Fisher >> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 8:35 PM >> To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SYMX EPS >> >> >> My data removes the one-time charge, like DGO does. Therefore, there is= no >> loss; there is a $0.09/share profit (125% over the SQLY). >> >> At 08:23 PM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >> > >> >The chart for SYMX is beautiful and it is breaking out but the >> >financials are somewhat mixed.=A0 Does anyone know the source of the >> >large loss previous quarter. is it a result of the acquisition and >> >non-recurring?=A0 If so, what do people think about it's financials. > >>>From SYMX's May 14, 1998 10-Q ( http://sec.yahoo.com/e/980514/symx. html ) > >"As a result of the acquisition of Pritsker Corporation, which was= completed >during the second quarter ended December 31, 1997, the Company realized a >non-recurring charge of $6.5 million relating to the write-off of acquired >in-process technology. Excluding the one time charge for the nine months >ended March 31, 1998, net income increased 63% to $2.8 million with= earnings >per share increasing to $0.41 compared to $0.29 a year ago. " > Tim Fisher Ore-Rock-On and Pacific Fishery Biologists WWW Sites mailto:Tim@OreRockOn.com WWW: http://OreRockOn.com See naked fish and rocks! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:49:09 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Or get a broker who ignores all that. I.e. both my brokers, Schwab and Bidwell, do not require that a trade settles before you make a new trade with the credit. In fact, does any broker refuse to sell you a stock because a trade hasn't "settled" yet? That would really kill their business, wouldn't it? At 09:26 AM 7/15/98 , you wrote: >< >1)=A0 If I am long in XYZ and decide to sell it, can I immediately turn >around and use the proceeds to >=A0=A0=A0=A0 purchase ABC ?=A0 And then an hour later, can I sell ABC and= buy DEF >?=A0=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0 Or does this rule imply a waiting period ?>> > >As I understand it (and I may not), if you have a cash account then >the cost of the stock is deducted from your cash balance.=A0 If you then >sell it and want to buy something else, you cannot do so until the >trade settles, unless you have enough cash in your account to cover >the new purchase.=A0 Therefore, if you trade frequently, you wind up >leap-frogging yourself.=A0 Cash accounts cannot carry a debit balance. > >All this can be solved by changing your account to a margin account.=20 >Even if you never go on margin per se, you'll be able to buy and sell >without regard for the settlement period.=A0 It's sort of like using a >credit card for overdraft protection against your checking account. > >--Db Tim Fisher Ore-Rock-On and Pacific Fishery Biologists WWW Sites mailto:Tim@OreRockOn.com WWW: http://OreRockOn.com See naked fish and rocks! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:16:22 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SYMX Redux Hey, thank Frank for his "like the chart" comment!=20 At 01:01 PM 7/15/98 , you wrote: > > >OK, Tim.=A0 A couple of points is nice.=A0 But 4+ points is showing off :) > >--Db > Tim Fisher Ore-Rock-On and Pacific Fishery Biologists WWW Sites mailto:Tim@OreRockOn.com WWW: http://OreRockOn.com See naked fish and rocks! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 98 16:35:27 -0500 From: "Robert Gammon" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:26:45 -0700 (PDT), dbphoenix wrote: >< >1) If I am long in XYZ and decide to sell it, can I immediately turn >around and use the proceeds to > purchase ABC ? And then an hour later, can I sell ABC and buy DEF >? > Or does this rule imply a waiting period ?>> > >As I understand it (and I may not), if you have a cash account then >the cost of the stock is deducted from your cash balance. If you then >sell it and want to buy something else, you cannot do so until the >trade settles, unless you have enough cash in your account to cover >the new purchase. Therefore, if you trade frequently, you wind up >leap-frogging yourself. Cash accounts cannot carry a debit balance. > >All this can be solved by changing your account to a margin account. >Even if you never go on margin per se, you'll be able to buy and sell >without regard for the settlement period. It's sort of like using a >credit card for overdraft protection against your checking account. I won't quarrel with db or Tom or Tim or anyone else on this list about this. I specifically sent a list of proposed trades to be executed ont he same day, showing the times of each trade to Datek, asking them if this would result in a Reg T extension. Their clear and emphatic answer was NO. Now, they may be at fault, however, I have since traded in my Cash account (an IRA) at Datek, using the proceeds from each sale several times in the day without triggering a Reg T notice. Each trade involved using 50%-90% of the value of the account (i.e. start the day with $20,000, buy $18,000, sell $18,250, buy $17,000, sell $16,980 etc.) This implies to me that Datek does immediate settlement in a Cash account. *----------------------------------------------------* Robert Gammon My opinions are my own. rgammon@micro.ti.com In no way am I representing 281-274-3299 voice the views of my employer. 281-274-2279 fax *----------------------------------------------------* - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:58:23 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Robert, Datek is not doing same day settlement, any more than any other firm will do, unless you specially arrange that and pay a little extra. They are doing what all firms do, T+3 settlement (settlement three business days later). In the example you used, each successive buy was using less cash than the preceding sale. Thus come settlement day three days hence, each of those buys, upon settlement, are covered. In truth, you could do several buys in the morning totalling $35,000, then later in the same day do several sells totaling at least as much (so long as they don't involve any of the buys from that day or prior days that were not already paid for) and still be ok with Reg T. The time sequence is not important to Reg T as all trades settle at close of business on settlement day. And I won't argue with anyone on it, just stating the facts from someone who has read the reg, and dealt with it professionally for a decade. Along the way I have received numerous compliments for understanding a relatively complex rule when applied to both cash and margin accts. BTW, cash accts can carry debit balances, they just must be paid for by settlement. Most online firms won't permit this, but that's a company policy, not a rule or regulation. Most full service brokers will extend credit, even on a cash acct. I used to do it all the time, and was only burned on a few occasions. Granted, one of those times took almost my entire month's paycheck, but it happens. Tom W - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gammon To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. >On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:26:45 -0700 (PDT), dbphoenix wrote: > >><> >>1) If I am long in XYZ and decide to sell it, can I immediately turn >>around and use the proceeds to >> purchase ABC ? And then an hour later, can I sell ABC and buy DEF >>? >> Or does this rule imply a waiting period ?>> >> >>As I understand it (and I may not), if you have a cash account then >>the cost of the stock is deducted from your cash balance. If you then >>sell it and want to buy something else, you cannot do so until the >>trade settles, unless you have enough cash in your account to cover >>the new purchase. Therefore, if you trade frequently, you wind up >>leap-frogging yourself. Cash accounts cannot carry a debit balance. >> >>All this can be solved by changing your account to a margin account. >>Even if you never go on margin per se, you'll be able to buy and sell >>without regard for the settlement period. It's sort of like using a >>credit card for overdraft protection against your checking account. > >I won't quarrel with db or Tom or Tim or anyone else on this list >about this. I specifically sent a list of proposed trades to be >executed ont he same day, showing the times of each trade to Datek, >asking them if this would result in a Reg T extension. Their >clear and emphatic answer was NO. Now, they may be at fault, >however, I have since traded in my Cash account (an IRA) at Datek, >using the proceeds from each sale several times in the day without >triggering a Reg T notice. Each trade involved using 50%-90% of >the value of the account (i.e. start the day with $20,000, buy >$18,000, sell $18,250, buy $17,000, sell $16,980 etc.) This implies >to me that Datek does immediate settlement in a Cash account. > > >*----------------------------------------------------* >Robert Gammon My opinions are my own. >rgammon@micro.ti.com In no way am I representing >281-274-3299 voice the views of my employer. >281-274-2279 fax >*----------------------------------------------------* > > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:49:12 -0400 From: Bill Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Suretrade may be the exception - I opened an account with them to test their $7.95 trades. The commissions are low and so is their service and not recommended until they add some staff and phones to handle the work load. Bill-->> - ---------- At 12:49 PM -0400 7/15/98, Tim Fisher wrote: >Or get a broker who ignores all that. I.e. both my brokers, Schwab and >Bidwell, >do not require that a trade settles before you make a new trade with the >credit. In fact, does any broker refuse to sell you a stock because a trade >hasn't "settled" yet? That would really kill their business, wouldn't it? > >At 09:26 AM 7/15/98 , you wrote: >><> >>1)  If I am long in XYZ and decide to sell it, can I immediately turn >>around and use the proceeds to >>     purchase ABC ?  And then an hour later, can I sell ABC and buy DEF >>?  >>     Or does this rule imply a waiting period ?>> >> >>As I understand it (and I may not), if you have a cash account then >>the cost of the stock is deducted from your cash balance.  If you then >>sell it and want to buy something else, you cannot do so until the >>trade settles, unless you have enough cash in your account to cover >>the new purchase.  Therefore, if you trade frequently, you wind up >>leap-frogging yourself.  Cash accounts cannot carry a debit balance. >> >>All this can be solved by changing your account to a margin account. >>Even if you never go on margin per se, you'll be able to buy and sell >>without regard for the settlement period.  It's sort of like using a >>credit card for overdraft protection against your checking account. >> >>--Db > > >Tim Fisher >Ore-Rock-On and Pacific Fishery Biologists WWW Sites > >mailto:Tim@OreRockOn.com >WWW: http://OreRockOn.com >See naked fish and rocks! > > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:48:59 -0400 From: Paul Gilberti Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Sorry if I seem slow but I'm getting more confused. Let's try an example. Let's say that seven days ago I opened a cash account with $2000 I purchase 100 shares @ 20 = $2000 One hour later I sell 100 shares @ 22 = $2200, a profit of $200. Can I now (same day); Q1) Purchase $2000 of another security ? Q2) Purchase $2200 of another security ? Or do I have to wait until settlement(3days?) until I can use the $2000 or $2200 ? Thanks, ---------- From: Tom Worley[SMTP:stkguru@netside.net] Reply To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 5:58 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. Robert, Datek is not doing same day settlement, any more than any other firm will do, unless you specially arrange that and pay a little extra. They are doing what all firms do, T+3 settlement (settlement three business days later). In the example you used, each successive buy was using less cash than the preceding sale. Thus come settlement day three days hence, each of those buys, upon settlement, are covered. In truth, you could do several buys in the morning totalling $35,000, then later in the same day do several sells totaling at least as much (so long as they don't involve any of the buys from that day or prior days that were not already paid for) and still be ok with Reg T. The time sequence is not important to Reg T as all trades settle at close of business on settlement day. And I won't argue with anyone on it, just stating the facts from someone who has read the reg, and dealt with it professionally for a decade. Along the way I have received numerous compliments for understanding a relatively complex rule when applied to both cash and margin accts. BTW, cash accts can carry debit balances, they just must be paid for by settlement. Most online firms won't permit this, but that's a company policy, not a rule or regulation. Most full service brokers will extend credit, even on a cash acct. I used to do it all the time, and was only burned on a few occasions. Granted, one of those times took almost my entire month's paycheck, but it happens. Tom W -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gammon To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Question on Regulation T. >On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:26:45 -0700 (PDT), dbphoenix wrote: > >><> >>1) If I am long in XYZ and decide to sell it, can I immediately turn >>around and use the proceeds to >> purchase ABC ? And then an hour later, can I sell ABC and buy DEF >>? >> Or does this rule imply a waiting period ?>> >> >>As I understand it (and I may not), if you have a cash account then >>the cost of the stock is deducted from your cash balance. If you then >>sell it and want to buy something else, you cannot do so until the >>trade settles, unless you have enough cash in your account to cover >>the new purchase. Therefore, if you trade frequently, you wind up >>leap-frogging yourself. Cash accounts cannot carry a debit balance. >> >>All this can be solved by changing your account to a margin account. >>Even if you never go on margin per se, you'll be able to buy and sell >>without regard for the settlement period. It's sort of like using a >>credit card for overdraft protection against your checking account. > >I won't quarrel with db or Tom or Tim or anyone else on this list >about this. I specifically sent a list of proposed trades to be >executed ont he same day, showing the times of each trade to Datek, >asking them if this would result in a Reg T extension. Their >clear and emphatic answer was NO. Now, they may be at fault, >however, I have since traded in my Cash account (an IRA) at Datek, >using the proceeds from each sale several times in the day without >triggering a Reg T notice. Each trade involved using 50%-90% of >the value of the account (i.e. start the day with $20,000, buy >$18,000, sell $18,250, buy $17,000, sell $16,980 etc.) This implies >to me that Datek does immediate settlement in a Cash account. > > >*----------------------------------------------------* >Robert Gammon My opinions are my own. >rgammon@micro.ti.com In no way am I representing >281-274-3299 voice the views of my employer. >281-274-2279 fax >*----------------------------------------------------* > > > >- > - - - ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #326 ***************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.