From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1019 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, April 13 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1019 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? -       Re: MtMan-List: another pot-stirrer on horns -       Re: MtMan-List: Too Quiet -       Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? -       MtMan-List: Bobcat & Camo -       Re: MtMan-List: Bobcat & Camo -       Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? -       Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? -       Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? -       MtMan-List: AMM Land Fund Auction -       MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:30:46 -0700 From: "rtlahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? Linda, I have to agree with your basic perceptions. I also see either seam lines or more likely the "pressure" of poles pushing against the canvas. I don't think it is a bell on the back of a tent or square. Rather round from what is shown. Capt. Lahti' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Holley" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 6:01 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? > I would have trouble with the 4 corner effect because the painting reflects a > curve in the lighting and not so much a flat surface, if shading looks right. As > an artist, curves are many times pictured as Miller has painted. This is why I > would like to see the field sketches. You really cannot tell much from the > painting details....they are so vague. If anything, it does look like a Bell of > Arms or the end of a bell wedge tent. But these are all opinions. Just haven't > seen any good documentation of one pole tents during this early time period. > > Linda Holley > > Hawkengun@aol.com wrote: > > > I think it looks like a four cornered pyramid tent to me--the type that > > wasn't "supposed" to have been out west until Francis Parkman brought one out > > in the late 1840s. And the one from the A.J. Miller painting looks pretty > > tall and wide, too, maybe 10x10 or bigger. We may have a new period tent to > > add to the 1830s list of camp equipage. > > > > John R. Sweet > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:41:11 -0700 From: "rtlahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: another pot-stirrer on horns This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C1E0E9.32627680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, Can't help but agree with what you say about how Mt. Sheep and Goat = horns were used. All horn that forms around a core is for all intents = and purposes hair. Otherwise it is antler and is basically bone. Some = types work better for some purposes than others. Buffalo horn as a = powder horn material is new to me, I'm finishing up my first as we speak = and I agree that it is much more "grainy" than cow. I'll take your = admonishment to heart when I go to finish it. I have already noticed that there are spaces/cracks in the outer and = oldest part of the material that need to be scraped down past. Most cow = horn seems to be more homogenous and "plastic" like, as you say. But = it's all hair same as finger nails and toe nails. Just in a different = form as I understand it. Luckily only my hair seems to want to fall out. = YMOS Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Powell=20 To: History List=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:06 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: another pot-stirrer on horns Capt., (Don't mean to be a pot stirrer but FYI) You know, come to think of it, the big horn sheep horns and mountain = goat horns were actually used more for bow limbs than for containers. = I've seen some real pretty bows made from horn, both authentic and = repos. I've also seen some nice containers made out of antelope horn. = The thing to remember is that cow horn is more like fingernail/plastic = and is more easily boiled and molded to a shape where buffalo and = antelope is hardened hair and needs more polishing to get the hair grain = from rising. And then you need to keep it lightly oiled. I carry a = buff powder horn patterned after the Miller sketches and love it. Mike Powell=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: rtlahti Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 7:22 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: another pot-stirrer on horns Yup there you go again Frank. What was said was that a buff horn = would more likely be used out west than back east. But that is only speculation considering the pictures and sketches that depict such. Nothing was = said about cow horns not being appropriate. The basic premise being that = if one were portraying back east, then a cow horn would be more common, not = that buffalo didn't exist back east. I personally think it is not any big = deal as far as anything but a very persnickety back east juried event would = be concerned. I'm sure Mt men carried both. I haven't seen many wild goat or mountain sheep horns. Have you? = Don't look like they would make very good horns. But I guess if someone wanted = to make one it would be a good conversation piece. Capt. Lahti ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : = http://explorer.msn.com - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C1E0E9.32627680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike,
 
Can't help but agree with what you say about how = Mt. Sheep=20 and Goat horns were used. All horn that forms around a core is for all = intents=20 and purposes hair. Otherwise it is antler and is basically bone. Some = types work=20 better for some purposes than others. Buffalo horn as a powder horn = material is=20 new to me, I'm finishing up my first as we speak and I agree that it is = much=20 more "grainy" than cow. I'll take your admonishment to heart when = I go to=20 finish it.
 
 I have already noticed that there are = spaces/cracks=20 in the outer and oldest part of the material that need to be scraped = down past.=20 Most cow horn seems to be more homogenous and "plastic" like, as  = you say.=20 But it's all hair same as finger nails and toe nails. Just in a = different form=20 as I understand it. Luckily only my hair seems to want to fall out.=20 <G>
 
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Michael=20 Powell
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 = 9:06=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = another=20 pot-stirrer on horns

Capt.,
(Don't mean to be a pot stirrer but FYI)
You know, come to think of it, the big horn sheep horns and = mountain=20 goat horns were actually used more for bow limbs than for = containers. =20 I've seen some real pretty bows made from horn, both authentic = and=20 repos.  I've also seen some nice containers made out of=20 antelope horn.  The thing to remember is that cow horn is = more like=20 fingernail/plastic and is more easily boiled and molded to a shape = where=20 buffalo and antelope is hardened hair and needs more polishing to = get the=20 hair grain from rising.  And then you need to keep it lightly=20 oiled.  I carry a buff powder horn patterned after the = Miller=20 sketches and love it.
Mike Powell 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 rtlahti
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 = 7:22=20 PM
To: = hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = another=20 pot-stirrer on horns
 
Yup there you go again Frank. What was said was = that a buff=20 horn would more
likely be used out west than back east. But that = is only=20 speculation
considering the pictures and sketches that depict = such.=20 Nothing was said
about cow horns not being appropriate. The basic = premise=20 being that if one
were portraying back east, then a cow horn = would be=20 more common, not that
buffalo didn't exist back east. I = personally think=20 it is not any big deal as
far as anything but a very persnickety = back=20 east juried event would be
concerned. I'm sure Mt men carried=20 both.

I haven't seen many wild goat or mountain sheep horns. = Have=20 you? Don't look
like they would make very good horns. But I guess = if=20 someone wanted to make
one it would be a good conversation=20 piece.

Capt. Lahti

----------------------
hist_text = list=20 info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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- ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C1E0E9.32627680-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:49:31 -0600 From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Too Quiet on 4/10/02 5:11 PM, jdearing at jdearing@brick.net wrote: > >> One pole tents were common in Rev War.. >> it makes sense that alot of gear was carried west > > > Hmmmm, what type of one pole tent was available during the Rev War? > > The only one pole I am aware of was a belle of arms. A small tent just big > enough to > stack arms, but not nearly big enough to sleep in, nor even big enough to > turn around in. > Just barely enough room for a stack of muskets standing upright. > > I would like to see any documentation you have for one pole tents, other > than the > belle of arms, in the Rev War period. > > J.D. > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html J.D. The french and english both had a conical one pole tent that would sleep up to 8 men. Ole - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:24:36 -0400 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? - --------------C8C2250CF905D6B6A87E9F9D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A bell of Arms was much smaller it was made to store Guns in and that is all. This tent is much to large for that. What's that black round spot on the back of that bell of the wedge tent for? Looks like a door to me. This is on the tent from Camp on the Prairie; there is enough details if one wants to see them. What hole, all I see is what is something that looks like a person sitting on a log or rolling up something. Aren't holes round??? There were round types of tents held up by one stick, but they were not 4 sided pyramid tents. I still say that the picture is too fuzzy for a "detail" proof of anything. Would need to see more pictures or writings. Linda Holley - --------------C8C2250CF905D6B6A87E9F9D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

A bell of Arms was much smaller it was made to store Guns in and that is all. This tent is much to large for that. What's that black round spot on the back of that bell of the wedge tent for? Looks like a door to me. This is on the tent from Camp on the Prairie; there is enough details if one wants to see them.

What hole, all I see is what is something that looks like a person sitting on a log or rolling up something. Aren't holes round??? There were round types of tents held up by one stick, but they were not 4 sided pyramid tents.   I still say that the picture is too fuzzy for a "detail" proof of anything.  Would need to see more pictures or writings.

Linda Holley - --------------C8C2250CF905D6B6A87E9F9D-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:47:40 -0400 (EDT) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: Bobcat & Camo South Carolina: Nesmith - A bobcat attack on a hunter in Williamsburg County was the state's first in at least five years, officials say. The animal pounced on Leon Casselman and clawed his eyes. Bobcats rarely attack humans, a Natural Resouces Department biologist said, but Casselman's camoflage outfit and turkey calls could have confused it. [USA Today, Thurs. 04-11-2002, p.9A] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:21:19 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bobcat & Camo - --part1_aa.9cebb9f.29e7e4ef_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just goes to show if your going to act like a turkey your going to get treated like one. Just an observation from Crazy Cyot - --part1_aa.9cebb9f.29e7e4ef_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just goes to show if your going to act like a turkey your going to get treated like one.
Just an observation from
Crazy Cyot - --part1_aa.9cebb9f.29e7e4ef_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:00:10 -0600 From: "Gretchen H. Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? Linda Holley wrote: > This is why I would like to see the field sketches. You really cannot tell much > from the > painting details....they are so vague. If you think the paintings are disappointingly vague you will not like the original sketches any better. Of those I have seen Miller tried to capture the action not the details. Your lucky to tell that a man has fringe on his arm lst alone what the tent in the background loks like. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 7:15:9 -0700 From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? I received my copy of”The west of AJ Miller” yesterday. Wow, lots of pics. There are several pics of wedge tents. In my opinion, those “One Pole Tents” are end views of wedge tents. Just my opinion. hardtcack > [Original Message] > From: Gretchen H. Ormond > To: > Date: 4/12/02 7:00:10 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? > > > > Linda Holley wrote: > > > This is why I would like to see the field sketches. You really cannot tell much > > from the > > painting details....they are so vague. > > If you think the paintings are disappointingly vague you will not like the original > sketches any better. Of those I have seen Miller tried to capture the action not the > details. Your lucky to tell that a man has fringe on his arm lst alone what the tent > in the background loks like. > > Wynn Ormond > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --- Randal Bublitz - --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers, we - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:44:48 EDT From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: One-pole Tent? - --part1_6a.1e44e038.29e85af0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone live near Cody? "Our Camp" in Miller on the Oregon Trail is in the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody Wy. and is 26 1/2 X 36 in. Roadkill - --part1_6a.1e44e038.29e85af0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone live near Cody? "Our Camp" in Miller on the Oregon Trail is in the Buffalo Bill Historical Center  in Cody Wy. and is 26 1/2 X 36 in.
Roadkill - --part1_6a.1e44e038.29e85af0_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:44:46 -0700 From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: MtMan-List: AMM Land Fund Auction

Friends, this is a cross posting from the AMM list.  The T & LR is the Tomahawk & Long Rifle, the association magazine which is available by subscription to anyone interested.  See  http://www.mtmen.org     For those who don't know - The AMM has purchased a choice little valley (aprox. 160 acres) within the Umcompahgre National Forest in W. Central Colorado.  The AMM intends to preserve this land in its natural state.  We are ensuring that , at least, this piece of land will be preserved for ever.  Please help us achieve our goal.  Any donations are tax deductable, receipt will be sent. 
 
Brothers,     As has been posted, there will be an Auction, to benefit the Land Fund, at the National Rdvs..  The auction will be advertised in the T & LR.  The issue should arrive before the National Rdvs..  There are some nice items donated already.  Anyone can bid, not just AMM members.  Some of the items will be pictured in the T & LR.  If anyone wants to send a bid by e-mail, or snail mail, they may.  The highest bid received before the National Rdvs. will be the starting bid at the National Rdvs. auction.  Send the bids to me, Randy Bublitz 5447 Princeton Dr. Santa Maria, CA 93455, or via e-mail. (or any inquieries) .  Bids must be received by these means before May 20- as I'll be on my way to Rdvs. after that.  If anyone has an item to donate to the Land Fund Auction, please get it to the National before Wed., May 29- as this is the day of the auction.  If you have no other way to get an item to Rdvs., send it to me and I'll bring it along.  The items pledged so far are :
 
1/2 buff. robe-
porcupine hair brush-
decorated awl case-
David Wright Print ' Friend or Foe'-
Walt McCurdy prints-
Buffalo Powder Horn-
90% off airline tickets-
2 brain tanned deer hides-
 
As you can see there is a wide variety of quality donations.  Any thing that you can contribute will be much appreciated.  We can set minimum bids, so if bid isn't met we can save for another time, or donor can have item back to sell themselves, we're flexible. 
    I will be working on getting these items pics. available on line.  Until then, I have photo files I can send e-mail upon request.  I don't have pic of David Wright pic, but do have pics of all else.  Please participate in the auction, as a donor or a bidder. 
PLEASE spread this word among your party, brigade, etc....  
   I'll see you on Our Land.   YFAB,  Randy 
 
 
 
--- Randal Bublitz
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
we are Borrowing it from our Children
 

- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:47:11 -0600 From: "Gretchen H. Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Half Round Shelter All the talk about one pole tents reminds me of the problem of the half round shelters. Has anyone come up with a way to use one? If I understand it correctly a person would have to cut down or butcher a large number of saplings. In the modern times that could get you in some trouble with the forrest service but it would seem inconvenient even in in the 1800's. Saplings are not always available to a camp site. Why would they have used these instead of a lean-to (sp)? Is there any records of lean-tos? Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1019 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.