From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1109 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, November 13 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1109 In this issue: - MtMan-List: Nov.11 - MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas - Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas - Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas - Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas - Re: MtMan-List: gun waiting - Re: MtMan-List: gun waiting - Re: MtMan-List: Nov.11 - MtMan-List: Saddles for sale - Re: MtMan-List: Tip's for Priming the Pan - MtMan-List: Fort Bridger Print on Ebay - MtMan-List: Re: vent liners - Re: MtMan-List: Re: vent liners - MtMan-List: Flash hole coning web page? - Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 06:57:56 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Nov.11 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0190_01C2894F.A9D38AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As we go through the day today, going where we wish, doing what we wish, = in total freedom, seek out a veteran and offer your thanks for that = person's service to our country. A peacetime vet who worked in a base = laundry in Kansas is as important to our freedom as are the Audie = Murphy's from the headlines. Freedom is not free, it is continuously = being bought for all of us by the efforts of thousands of soldiers, = sailors, marines and coast guard at their posts all around the world, = both now and in the past. Thanks gents and ladies. Thanks from the bottom of my heart. I'll = visit the cemetery today and thank my father personally. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays - ------=_NextPart_000_0190_01C2894F.A9D38AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As we go through the day = today, going=20 where we wish, doing what we wish, in total freedom, seek out a veteran = and=20 offer your thanks for that person's service to our country. A = peacetime=20 vet who worked in a base laundry in Kansas is as important to our = freedom=20 as are the Audie Murphy's from the headlines. Freedom is not = free, it=20 is continuously being bought for all of us by the efforts of thousands = of=20 soldiers, sailors, marines and coast guard at their posts all around the = world,=20 both now and in the past.

Thanks gents and = ladies. Thanks=20 from the bottom of my heart. I'll visit the cemetery today and = thank my=20 father personally.

Lanney Ratcliff
lanneyratcliff@charter.net=
______________________________________________________________
Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays

- ------=_NextPart_000_0190_01C2894F.A9D38AB0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:44:04 -0800 From: "Thomas Petersen" Subject: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28977.A2A9DD70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it will be a cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a “signature” which would be unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am mixing old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialness to it. Thanks. Thomas R Petersen - ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28977.A2A9DD70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it = will be a cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a = “signature” which would be unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am = mixing old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialness to = it.

Thanks.

Thomas R Petersen

- ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28977.A2A9DD70-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:56:18 -0600 From: windwalker Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas On Monday 11 November 2002 01:44 pm, Thomas Petersen wrote: > I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it will be= a > cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a =93signature=94 which w= ould be > unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am mix= ing > old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialne= ss > to it. > > Thanks. > > Thomas R Petersen If your going to use it much think Mclellan - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:24:58 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas Thomas R. Petersen Unless it has slick forks, a high cantle, and NO padding it will never look much of anything like a period saddle. Of course if you get all this it won't look much like a cutting saddle. It would be best to buy the saddle you need and if you need both get two. John... At 01:44 PM 11/11/02, you wrote: >I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it will be a >cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a signature which would be >unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am mixing >old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialness >to it. > >Thanks. > >Thomas R Petersen If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. john AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:15:24 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas Thomas Petersen wrote: > I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it will be a > cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a "signature" which would be > unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am mixing > old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialness > to it. Windwalker wrote: If your going to use it much think Mclellan I rode a Mclellan for about six months they are serviceable but man did I miss the horn. I personally believe that the RMFT did not put that buff robe or blanket on there for fun, I believe that without it they would be sitting on rawhide bars. If you want to put a mountaineer signiture on it leave of the seat. You can look at the saddles in Kurtz drawings on Deans site for some ideas of your own. They are just late from period but they show details that Miller did not. Also a crupper is very authentic and a breast coller not near so common. Indians saddles were not extremely close to a cutting saddle in any way I now of. Maybe you could take someones scalp and hang it off the horn, that would be authentic and a good conversation piece. :) Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:26:13 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: gun waiting > >> There were very few originals made with vent > liners. Vent liners were only used on the very finest quality guns, > Mantons, Nocks, Becks, and so forth. But most of the touch holes in guns > without vent liners were huge by > todays standards. Our guns usually have touch holes that measure roughly > 1/16" > to 5/64" where most of theirs were 3/32" to nearly 1/8". It takes a hole > that big to get consistent ignition with only a hole drilled in the side of > the > barrel. > > Pendleton Is there a reason why we do not want a hole that big? Wynn Ormnond > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:12:00 -0600 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: gun waiting Is there a reason why we do not want a hole that big? Wynn Ormnond >> Wynn, Most folks today expect match quality accuracy from their guns. The bigger touch hole tends to decrease breech pressures thus decreasing velocity which can hinder accuracy especially in guns with slow twist barrels. ( one in 56" to one in 66" or 72" ) Another bucket of worms is just how many of the originals had slow twist barrels ? A couple of Oldtimers who began playing with muzzleloaders in the post WWII days said that nearly all of the originals they had seen had barrels with a one in 48" twist. Given that these two guys worked for a leading antique gun dealer restoring guns, and handled virtually every type of gun you could name, it makes one wonder. Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:15:19 EST From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nov.11 - --part1_83.236ebbc0.2b01a217_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all vets for the freedom we now enjoy. My father was from the small island of Guam. He lived there during the Japanese occupation. Soon after the liberation from Japanese control one way his family said thanks was for all the sons to join the U.S. military. Unfortunately he had to return to the island only to escort all of his brothers bodies back home. He instilled in my brother and I the love he had for the great country of ours and what they have fought for. I will soon go back home and visit his grave and say thanks again. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas - --part1_83.236ebbc0.2b01a217_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all vets for the freedom we now enjoy. My father was from the small island of Guam. He lived there during the Japanese occupation. Soon after the liberation from Japanese control one way his family said thanks was for all the sons to join the U.S. military. Unfortunately he had to return to the island only to escort all of his brothers bodies back home. He instilled in my brother and I the love he had for the great country of ours and what they have fought for. I will soon go back home and visit his grave and say thanks again.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas - --part1_83.236ebbc0.2b01a217_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:11:23 -0800 From: "kc16" Subject: MtMan-List: Saddles for sale Klohowya to the list, I haven't been on this list for a couple years now. This is not an advertisement for me...but another brother up in Idaho who has a couple Sante Fe saddles that he wants to sell. Here are the particulars and how to get ahold of him if you want. 2 New Sante Fe (Mexican) parade type saddles. Full rigged with spur straps, chest collar, bingle car bridal strap, thick pad, belly strap. $500 + shipping Contact: Tom Cornwall PO Box 851 Mogie Srpings, ID 83845 (208) 267-9418 Give him a call if any of you are interested. Curtis "Blood" Krouse #1651 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:32:26 EST From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tip's for Priming the Pan - --part1_a7.29d9f10c.2b01c23a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 5:34:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes: > The jist of the tip was to prim the > pan fuller on one side but I can't now remember was it fuller toward the > touch hole or away? Away. If you get prime banked against the vent, it acts like a fuse & slows things down. Priming the outer end of the pan heavier seems to throw the flame into the vent -- goes "bang!" quicker. Nauga Mok - --part1_a7.29d9f10c.2b01c23a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 5:34:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes:

The jist of the tip was to prim the
pan fuller on one side but I can't now remember was it fuller toward the
touch hole or away?

Away. If you get prime banked against the vent, it acts like a fuse & slows things down. Priming the outer end of the pan heavier seems to throw the flame into the vent -- goes "bang!" quicker.

Nauga Mok - --part1_a7.29d9f10c.2b01c23a_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:27:52 -0500 From: manbear Subject: MtMan-List: Fort Bridger Print on Ebay - --------------9754D503A951FF172ADFE26A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I just came across this auction on Ebay for an old newspaper with a great print of Fort Bridger and thought someone here might be interested. Manbear http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=732446496 - --------------9754D503A951FF172ADFE26A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All,
I just came across this auction on Ebay for an old newspaper with a great print of Fort Bridger and thought someone here might be interested.
Manbear

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=732446496 - --------------9754D503A951FF172ADFE26A-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:37:08 -0500 (EST) From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: vent liners Was reading the "Complete Book of Firearms"by Sergio Masini and Rodolfo Rotasso ,they have a picture of an 18th cen. Italian hunting rifle on page 39 with the caption "Hunting rifle with Roman-style lock..Walnut stock,engraved silver furniture...Lock with gold touch hole..." Clearly a high end weapon and not the kind of thing generally carried by your average Frontier type still theres a vent liner dating back to the 18th cen. if anyones interested! Your servant as ever, M.A.Smith Esq. http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:32:53 -0700 (MST) From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: vent liners Dear List Dueling pistols, dbl flintlock shotguns, now fancy Italian rifles. This is what I said all along. The king and queen might have had one but Joe Schmoe didn't. I imagine Richard Harris (God rest his soul) had one in his rifle in "A Man Called Horse", he played a rich guy. If anyone has seen a regular gun in a museum with a vent liner I'd like to know. I might go and see it. I'm also beginning to doubt this "burned out flash hole" theory. I've had my fusee for 5 years now and shoot it a lot and the flash hole is as big and ugly as it's always been. I guess I'll find out in another 10 years if it burns out. I think the film "Gunsmiths of Willamsburg" has Wallace coning out the inside of the flash hole, doesn't it? I also think the film says it took him two months to make that rifle from scratch (hand forged barrel, hand rifled, hand forged lock etc..). Two months without power tools. He even makes his own drill bits! I suppose they got their guns back then in less than 12 months because they only lived to 35 years. If they made the customer wait too long he'd die of old age! They also didn't have ESPN to distract them! ha This is a must see film for ALL gun buffs modern or old. Oh, and I did put my fusee together as I'm too cheap to pay someone else to do it. BB > Was reading the "Complete Book of Firearms"by Sergio Masini and Rodolfo > Rotasso ,they have a picture of an 18th cen. Italian hunting rifle on > page 39 with the caption "Hunting rifle with Roman-style lock..Walnut > stock,engraved silver furniture...Lock with gold touch hole..." Clearly > a high end weapon and not the kind of thing generally carried by your > average Frontier type still theres a vent liner dating back to the 18th > cen. if anyones interested! > Your servant as ever, > M.A.Smith Esq. > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:36:52 -0700 (MST) From: Subject: MtMan-List: Flash hole coning web page? I was wrong about Wallace Gusler coning his flash hole. I must have saw it somewhere else. It also took him 300 hours to handmake that flintlock and it was a REAL fancy one. I'm not sure if those hours included his helpers hours too. Someone posted a web page showing how they coned flash holes. I deleted it by mistake. Could you please re-post it. BB - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:05:49 +0000 From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas Mr. Peterson, I guess the real question is, are you planning to use your saddle for period scouts and such? If so why bother with a modern style... use a period style and you don't have anything to worry about! All of my saddles are built on traditional "Spanish" and St. Louis type trees and while I don't do any roping I don't see any problems with them holding up to the task. Once you start riding period tack you won't want to go back to the modern stuff, just isn't the same! Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1109 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.