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Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #137
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hist_text-digest      Sunday, September 13 1998      Volume 01 : Number 137




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:33:43 -0400
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

Lanney,
 You are just a sweetheart...Where were you when I started??<BG>
 I'll make myself available to help as well..For all the good I'll do.
Dennis

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:42:21 -0700
From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

Dennis,

You can keep these "seasoned" mountain men from yarnin' the greenhorns too
much!  WAGH!

Medicine Bear

Dennis Miles wrote:

>  I'll make myself available to help as well..For all the good I'll do.
> Dennis
>
>    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
> -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:44:38 -0400
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

Only way to do that is with a load of swan and a damn big stick....

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
- -----Original Message-----
From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit


>Dennis,
>
>You can keep these "seasoned" mountain men from yarnin' the greenhorns too
>much!  WAGH!
>
>Medicine Bear
>
>Dennis Miles wrote:
>
>>  I'll make myself available to help as well..For all the good I'll do.
>> Dennis
>>
>>    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>>           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>>   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>>     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
>> -
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:15:10 -0600
From: "Scott Singer - \"Spinner\"" <wwwrendezvous@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?

>I think I floated this notion before, but here goes again.  Would enough of
you
>folks be interested in some sort of registry where those of us willing to
coach
>newbies or to meet traveling list-mates could list enough info about our
location
>that we could be contacted online when somebody has a question?

Please check out my site, the WWW Rendezvous, listed below.  I have been
posting an ever-growing roster of online buckskinners (including email and
locations, and organized by state) for quite a while.  There are a few
hundred people listed already, and more every week.  Please feel free to add
yourself to that list.  Also look for the listing of local muzzleloading
clubs (also organized by states).

Thanks - hope it might be what you were thinking

- -------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Singer, aka "Spinner"
WWW Rendezvous Web Site:
     http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous
Territorial Dispatch/National Association of Buckskinners Web Site
     http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4833
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 03:01:27 EDT
From: Casapy123@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Francisco Laforet

Mr. Naples,

You'll also find some info on LaForet in "Taos Trappers", by David Weber,
published by University of Oklahoma Press in 1970.  Weber also wrote the
article in the Hafen series Dave Mullen recommends.  The Hafen piece is fairly
short but still a comprehensive report on LaForet.  The Hafen series is out of
print so check your local library.  

I understand there is a new collection of the Hafen articles pertaining to the
trappers of the southwest that is now in print and compiled by Matthew Despain
(a subscriber to this list)  I don't know if LaForet is included.  Perhaps if
Mr. Despain reads this, he can confirm the inclusion of this article.  At any
rate, that book is in print and will undoubtedly contain some reference to
LaForet as he hung around with men like William Wolfskill and George Yount, to
name a few.

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
(530)283-4566 (H)
(530)283-3330 (W)
(530)283-5171 FAX
Casapy123@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 06:32:51 -0700
From: Corey Tretteen <TretCo@wwc.edu>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit -Reply

My thanks to Lanny, and to all the other nice folks out there
who are writing back to help me.   Please keep the advice
coming.


Corey

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 06:37:31 -0700
From: Corey Tretteen <TretCo@wwc.edu>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mime-Version: 1.0

Roger Lahti, could you please send me your E-mail address?
  I would like to take you up on your offer to help, seeing as
how your the closest to me. 

Thanks.

Corey

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:41:23 -0400
From: "Sean" <sean@naplesnet.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?

DOH!!  I guess it would help if I said where I was... Southwest Florida...
local zips are 34101 to 34116.... That is just for Naples.  If anyone is
near here and needs anything, email me at sean@naplesnet.com and I will be
glad to help...

Addison Miller
- -----Original Message-----
From: RR1LA@aol.com <RR1LA@aol.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?


>Gary, Count me in. I'm in the West Los Angeles area, and would gladly give
any
>info needed. I think your idea is a great one. Feel free to contact me
direct
>at rr1la@aol.com.   PJ
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:38:47 -0400
From: "Sean" <sean@naplesnet.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?

Aye... I'd me more than willing after all the help I received when I was
greener than grass...  I think now I am a tenderfoot after about 8 years...
*chuckles*

Addison Miller
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gary Bell <micropt@gte.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?


>Washtahay,
>
>I think I floated this notion before, but here goes again.  Would enough of
you
>folks be interested in some sort of registry where those of us willing to
coach
>newbies or to meet traveling list-mates could list enough info about our
location
>that we could be contacted online when somebody has a question?
>
>I am no expert in such things, but I can imagine a list somewhere on the
'net
>where we could go to find out if one of our friends online lives near us,
or near
>somewhere we are travelling, or near some site of research interest.  Most
of us
>have revealed our town at some time or another online, and I expect that a
list
>with just names, email addresses, location, and whether we are interested
in
>coaching, research help or socializing would serve our needs without unduly
>intruding on list member's privacy.   My notion includes the idea that
members
>would volunteer to be listed, so the folks not interested would not be
imposed
>upon.
>
>I'll wager that most of us have online friends who live nearer than we ever
>suspected.  Also recall how much of our message traffic covers these
newbie,
>research or travelling topics already.
>
>Feel free to reply online or privately if you like, and I would be willing
to
>invest time and effort in making such a thing happen if the group wants it.
I
>also would like to solicit ideas on how such a thing would work, you folks
>probably have a bunch of good ideas about that as well.  Dean, I
particularly
>would like to learn your views on this!
>
>I would also like to see more correspondence with local events indicated,
but I
>think a separate message thread is appropriate for that, given the
different set
>of concerns involved.  I will presently launch such a discussion here,
perhaps
>after the flame war of this message thread dies down a little.
>
>Let me know (putting on my fireproof 'skins and topping off my powderhorn),
>
>Gary Bell,  aka Heron
>
>
>Roger Lahti wrote:
>
>> Corey:
>>
>> Lee gave you some sound advice. I live in Kennewick and would be willing
to
>> share my "wisdom" with you on how to get started and etc.whether you find
a
>> mentor in WW or not.
>
><snip>
>
>> Lee Newbill wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Corey Tretteen wrote:
>> > >      I am a total pilgrim in this area.
>
><snip>
>
>>   What I need to know is is there anyone in the
>> > > Walla Walla, WA area that I can get together with who can
>> > > help me get started?
>> >
>> > Corey
>> >
>> > On the weekend of Oct 3, all sorts of folks will descend on Old Fort
Walla
>> > Walla, that would be an excellent time to wander through, talk with
folks,
>> > and see whats up.
>
><snip>
>
>> > There will be both local folks and folks from distant parts, so you
>> > should be able to rub elbows with someone that can help.
>> >
>> > Additionally, what are you interested in... American Mountain Man,
>> > or Northwest Company?  The NWC was very active and was the actual
founder
>> > of the original Fort Nez Perce, now known as Fort Walla Walla.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Lee Newbill
>> > Viola, Idaho
>> > email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
>> > Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
>> > http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186
>
>  > On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Corey Tretteen wrote:
>> >      I am a total pilgrim in this area.  I have read a few books
>> > (real ones, not fiction) and talked to a few people, but that's
>> > about it.   What I need to know is is there anyone in the
>> > Walla Walla, WA area that I can get together with who can
>> > help me get started?
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:00:40 -0400
From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?

Up here in the Northern regions of Florida or Southeastern Georgia, you have
Linda Holley at the 32200s' zip code who can help find out or people to help
out the new comer and the old comer. Been doing it for over 30 years.

Linda Holley
"the Cheyenne Lady"

Sean wrote:

> DOH!!  I guess it would help if I said where I was... Southwest Florida...
> local zips are 34101 to 34116.... That is just for Naples.  If anyone is
> near here and needs anything, email me at sean@naplesnet.com and I will be
> glad to help...
>
> Addison Miller
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RR1LA@aol.com <RR1LA@aol.com>
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?
>
> >Gary, Count me in. I'm in the West Los Angeles area, and would gladly give
> any
> >info needed. I think your idea is a great one. Feel free to contact me
> direct
> >at rr1la@aol.com.   PJ
> >

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:58:14 -0600
From: "David Tippets" <dtippets@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Menard

The Wood and Thiessen book you mention does have a lot of information about
Menard.  I browsed through it last evening.

One of the tidbits that I picked out, in light of the PBS special on The
Corp. of Discovery that has been running a lot this year, is that Menard was
a resident fur trader at the Mandan and Hidatsu villages for a quarter of
century before The Corp of Discovery arrived there.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Menard


>In 1804, Joseph Menard of Montreal was listed as a North West Company
>"voyageur contremaitre" (voyageur supervisor?) in the Athabasca River
>department (Masson 1:396).
>
>There's a book by W. Raymond Wood and Thomas D. Thiessen called _Early Fur
>Trade on the Northern Plains_ (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) which
has
>a wealth of information on the trade to the Mandans in the late 1700's and
>early 1800's. It might have some information to help answer your question.
>Sorry, I haven't got my copy with me right now.
>
>Your humble & obedient servant,
>Angela Gottfred
>agottfre@telusplanet.net
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:45:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?

Gary

It would perhaps be better to assist one of the many Blackpowder
orientated webpages/sites out there than to start a new location list...

Scott Singer has such a listing at
http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous/

As does the "Mountain Man Cyber List" at 
http://home.earthlink.net/~jfluhman/index/main.html


Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:42:20 -0600
From: Wayne Mumford <ffw@in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Menard

David Tippets and Angela Gottfred thank you for the help in tracking
down Menard. I think you have found the one I am searching for. David's
description fits closely with that given by Truteau in Nastir's book.
Apparently Truteau got information from Menard about the upper
Yellowstone which the latter had travelled to several times in the
mid/late 1700's in the company of the Gros Ventre who were going to
visit the Crow. This fits as the Crow territory encompassed most of the
upper Yellowstone proper and the bigger tributaries to the south, the
Tongue, Powder, and the Bighorn.
Thank you- now to get my hands on that book!
- --
Frontier Filmworks
Still Photography by Wayne Mumford
Location Scouting-Prints-Stock Images
Historic Western Trails
http://gallery.in-tch.com/~ffw/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:56:35 EDT
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

In a message dated 98-09-12 00:21:07 EDT, you write:

<< Corey
 This is an open letter to newcomers that I have used for a while.  I hope
 some part of it helps you.
 YMOS
 Lanney Ratcliff >>

Excelent advice.  I might add a few ideas & observations for first time rondy
attendees.  As Lanney said right off the bat, don't bankrupt yourself untill
you get some ideas as to which way you want to go in history.  If you decide
you just HAVE to have a rifle & ignore his good advice, start off with an
inexpensive rifle until you learn how to shoot B/P -- you may find you hate it
& it'd be a shame to have $2000 wrapped up in a rifle you'll never shoot
again.  Look at Lyman's offerings -- excelent rifles for under $400 or
Traditions has a "Pennsylvania long rifle" that's less than that.  CVA also
makes fome good shooting inexpensive rifles, but look for the traditional side
locks & slow twist barrels.  T/C builds some excelent "starter" rifles &
there's a bunch out there already -- maybe you can pick up a used one in good
shape, then pass it on when you no longer need it -- I have a couple of my old
CVA's out on loan right now.  My arsonal now consists of a Lyman Great Plains
I use for hunting, a highly modified Dixie Tenn. Mountain "poor Boy" also for
hunting, a Trade gun from North Star West, a custom built "Ohio" & at present
I'm having a copy of Fredric Sell's "Pegasus" built by Lodding & McClenahan.
The last 3 are the ones I use for re-enactments -- or will use once "Pegasus"
gets finished.  These last 3 guns were all $800 & UP.  My persona is such I
could carry any of the rifles with a slight shift in my clothing -- only the
Great Plains is percussion -- the rest are flinters.  If I want to go with my
persona dressed for 1838 - 40, then the G/P would fit because I've found
doccumentation for Hawkin Rifles & percussion caps in a shipping
manefest/inventory that was headed for the 1838 rondy.

Starting clothing can be as simple as a droop sholder calico shirt worn over a
pair of WHITE jeans so the pockets don't show.  Denim IS a period cloth -- it
just wasn't blue.  Head wear -- go bare headed, wear a solid color bandana, or
once you're there look for a wool felt hat blank -- you can usualy pick one up
at most rondys for under $20.  Feet -- A whole bunch of us started out with
Tandy kit mocs, but that's something you'll need to up grade as soon as
possible -- besides, they'll wear out pretty quick & need replaced anyway.
Also be aware Tandy kit mocs offer very little protection for your feet as far
as sharp rocks, cactus thorns & the like -- they're just a good inexpensive
way to get started -- especialy is you fudge with some Dr Sholes insoles or
equivelent.  You'll probably want to up grade your clothing first once you
decide what your persona will be. 

Camping gear -- Again Lanney's advice is good, but most small local rondies
have what's called "Tin Camp" -- an area where modern camp gear is allowed.
Keep in mind most rondies that have "tin camps" require period dress in
"primative camp".  While you're there LOOK around & see how the various camps
are set up, & as Lanney said, ASK QUESTIONS!  You'll see just about everything
at the local rondies.  They're a whole lot of fun to go to & get ideas for
your own camp.  You'll also find a whole lot of stuff that probably isn't
doccumentable.  The local rondies are "growing areas" where you can usualy go
either completely modern or completely period -- or any stage in between.  Be
advised there are a few local rondies that ARE PERIOD & VERY prowd of that
fact -- they may even want to check your underwear!  Again Lanney's advice --
Call ahead & talk to the booshway (or other club member) to see if they're a
rather lax group or are in strict compliance with period requirements -- and
exactly what they are.  IF you can meet their requirements, then go.  

Once you start attending the local rondies, at this "starting level" make sure
you make an attempt to improve your gear.  I'm going to get yelled at for this
statement, BUT ---- You don't HAVE to go completely period or doccument
everything you do, but you'll more or less get stuck with the more lax local
rondies where that is acceptable.  IF that's what you want, then stay at that
level.  HOWEVER ---- From experience -- attending a National level rondy
requires you be more inline with period requirements.  The certain
organizations like AMM & ALRA have requirements much stricter.  Then too,
there's a certain satisfaction, even at the local level when you know your
gear IS period, what you eat IS period, how you derss IS period & all of it
doccumentable.  At that level, you can attend ANY function in your chosen time
frame.  Don't be surprised if your persona changes over the years.  When I
first started, I was only intrested in the Rocky Mountain Fur trade era, but
after attending a re-enactment at Old Fort Niagara when in that area hunting
Black Bear with primative gear last year, I've had to open up the earlier part
of my persona's life & put more effort in developing it.  

Hopefully, this, along with what Lanney said has given you some ideas as to
where to start.  With any luck, we'll see you down the trail some day!

NM

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:52:34 -0400
From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?

if you hace gun problems or a question about restoring a firearm give me
a call or send me a note my info is below.
as usual  YMHOSANT
        =+=
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-(813) 771-1815     E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:00:40 -0400 Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net>
writes:
>Up here in the Northern regions of Florida or Southeastern Georgia, 
>you have
>Linda Holley at the 32200s' zip code who can help find out or people 
>to help
>out the new comer and the old comer. Been doing it for over 30 years.
>
>Linda Holley
>"the Cheyenne Lady"
>
>Sean wrote:
>
>> DOH!!  I guess it would help if I said where I was... Southwest 
>Florida...
>> local zips are 34101 to 34116.... That is just for Naples.  If 
>anyone is
>> near here and needs anything, email me at sean@naplesnet.com and I 
>will be
>> glad to help...
>>
>> Addison Miller
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RR1LA@aol.com <RR1LA@aol.com>
>> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>> Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 3:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List?
>>
>> >Gary, Count me in. I'm in the West Los Angeles area, and would 
>gladly give
>> any
>> >info needed. I think your idea is a great one. Feel free to contact 
>me
>> direct
>> >at rr1la@aol.com.   PJ
>> >
>
>
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:12:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: Clay Landry <Landry@wtp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Christian missionaries to Rendezvous

At 06:26 PM 9/6/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I am trying to research the possible missionary outreaches to Rendezvous and
>the Mountain Men of the 1800-1840 era.  Would prefer published references or
>accessible repositories.
>
>Rev. Hawk
>
>
>--------------------------------------------

Just about all of the early missionaries to the Oregon country kept diaries
and journals. This was usually a requirement of the church that sponsored them.

The best books on the first missionaries to visit the Rendezvous  are;

"The First White Women over The Rockies" by Clifford Drury-three Volumes.
This is by far the best work on the Protestant missionaries-it contains most
of the Diary and journals of Narccisa Whitman, Elza Hart Spaulding,  Asa
Smith etc.
It is an out of print series so you will probably have to get it from the
library.

"Journal of an Exploring Tour Beyond the Rocky Mountains" by Rev Samuel Parker-
He was at the 1835 Rendezvous with Rev. Whitman, lots of interesting
comments on the alnd and the Mountaineers. This book was also out of print
for many years however I just today saw it at a book store in West
Yellowstone Montana in paper back. I am sure that most good book stores can
get it for you.

Have fun!

Clay

"
Clay Landry
P.O. Box 1033
Columbus MT 59019
- --------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:08:31 EDT
From: WSmith4100@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:newbee

From one "Grizz" to another,  howdy.  My  name is Wade Smith and I live in
Meridian, Idaho(8 miles west of Boise).  I know, Iknow,  it's not near
Seattle, but  I met some buckskinners from your area.     I will have to get
back to you with a name and address of the group that attended one of our
local rendezvous.  Talk to you soon.

ymhs(Your Most Humble Servant)
Wade

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:37:38 -0700
From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Charcloth..

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDDF02.873A1060
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good morning:

Question:  Can you make charcloth in a gas bar-b-que? What kind of cloth =
is best to use and do you suggest a certain size. Thanks for the help.

Gail Carbiener

- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDDF02.873A1060
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Good morning:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Question:&nbsp; Can you make =
charcloth in a gas=20
bar-b-que? What kind of cloth is best to use and do you suggest a =
certain size.=20
Thanks for the help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Gail =
Carbiener</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDDF02.873A1060--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:36:39 -0500
From: Bill Murphy <murf@itis.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..

At 10:37 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>    Good morning:     Can you make charcloth in a gas  bar-b-que? What kind
>of cloth is best to use and do you suggest a certain size.  Thanks for the
>help.   Gail Carbiener 

   Speaking of char-clothe, I have not seen much discussion of the use of a
"burning lens" to start fire. Is it used on a char clothe, or directly on
very small kindling. Was it used much as opposed to flint and steel? (yeah,
I know, hard to use a burning lense in moonlight)

                            Bill

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:28:57 +0000
From: randybublitz@juno.com (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..

Gail, I have made char in a BBQ, but it is a waste of heat and gas. It is
better to concentrate the heat.  Don't do it on the kitchen stove, it
will stink up the house something awful ( I Know!).  I use a backpacking
stove, butane, it concentrates the heat- and can be used outside.  I have
dug a small hole in an inconspiquous place in the back yard, made a small
fire and set the can in that.  I like to use cotton webbing for my char,
it is more substantial when done, not so crumbly.  I use the stuff that
would be used on back pack straps, etc.... This webbing can be had in
very wide pieces, too.  Any good cotton (pure) will work, probably other
natural fabrics as well.  I use cotton, as it works, and is readily
available.  Another neat use for the wide webbing is as a candle wick. 
Take a small can, say 3" across.  Use a 2 3/4" wide piece of webbing as a
wick, fill the can with wax.  This candle will warm up a small tent, and
cast a good light.  I hope this info. is of some use to you.  Hardtack  

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Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:02:49 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..

Bill, You got a good answer  from Randal and the only thing I can add is that I
use the punky wood fibers from inside very rotten birch logs to make excellent
char that is probably more likely what was used originally. There are other
forms of rotten wood that will char ok too. It is fun to experiment with
different material. Another material that works good is real course linen
fabric, as course as canvas. It just needs to be natural plant fibers.

To the question of burning glasses. They were used and are documented. They were
mounted in flattened wire frames with fancy little self hands. My friend
"Digger" John used one to light his pipe when ever the sun was out. ONe of the
things you need to look out for is that the lens will actually focus enough sun
heat to light the char. Not all lenses will work well. I have one in a Ted Cash
tobacco tin that just won't quit make the grade. But in any case, you get char
to smoldering and then blow the heat into you're tinder as you would if using
flint and steel. A really good lens will get unburned ( un charred material) to
smolder but it is an all day job to get enough heat to make fire.

Another chance to have fun experimenting, knowing that it can be done. Good
luck, I remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

Bill Murphy wrote:

> At 10:37 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >    Good morning:     Can you make charcloth in a gas  bar-b-que? What kind
> >of cloth is best to use and do you suggest a certain size.  Thanks for the
> >help.   Gail Carbiener
>
>    Speaking of char-clothe, I have not seen much discussion of the use of a
> "burning lens" to start fire. Is it used on a char clothe, or directly on
> very small kindling. Was it used much as opposed to flint and steel? (yeah,
> I know, hard to use a burning lense in moonlight)
>
>                             Bill



Bill Murphy wrote:

> At 10:37 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >    Good morning:     Can you make charcloth in a gas  bar-b-que? What kind
> >of cloth is best to use and do you suggest a certain size.  Thanks for the
> >help.   Gail Carbiener
>
>    Speaking of char-clothe, I have not seen much discussion of the use of a
> "burning lens" to start fire. Is it used on a char clothe, or directly on
> very small kindling. Was it used much as opposed to flint and steel? (yeah,
> I know, hard to use a burning lense in moonlight)
>
>                             Bill

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:02:19 EDT
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..

In a message dated 98-09-13 13:37:47 EDT, you write:

<< Question:  Can you make charcloth in a gas bar-b-que? What kind of cloth is
best to use and do you suggest a certain size. Thanks for the help. >>

Don't see why not.  Almost any heat source that's hot enough to cook on will
make charcloth -- even your electric kitchen range -- 'cept ya won't like all
the smoke in the house.  The heat source isn't the trick.  The trick is the
closed can with the limited air & the cloth or fibers you're charing.  Any can
with a close fitting lid will work -- like a shoe polish can.  Poke a small
hole in the can -- I usualy stab the lid with a knife & put in about a 1/8"
long cut.  Cram the can full of your fibre to be chared -- this is important
- -- realy pack it in to the point it's a little hard to get the lid back on,
but the lid will still STAY on.  Toss on the heat source & let it do it's
thing.  While it's "cooking", it'll smoke a LOT.  You may notice a flame start
off at the hole in the lid.  When the flame goes out on it's own, the char's
done -- but it doesn't hurt to cook longer -- until it quits smoking or even
longer.  I've seen good char come out of a can that was forgotten & left in
the campfire all night.  Now comes another critical part.  Allow the can to
fully cool down to where you can pick it up with your bare fingers.  This is
important!  Open the can while it's too hot, & the char will instantly flame
up & it's gone.  Also -- don't stick it under the water tap to cool it -- you
want this stuff DRY!

  As for char material -- almost any natural fiber.  Cotton cloth works good &
is probably most used, but don't forget tow (unprocessed linen fibers that
have many other uses in our time frame), shreaded tree bark (birch & cedar
seem to work well) even "punk wood" -- half rotted wood that's soft & crumbly.
Some moss works well.  At this point, "expiramental archeology" comes in -- go
out in the woods & find stuff to char & see if it works -- you'll be surprised
how much stuff WILL work as char once cooked (even non-synthetic lint from
your clothes dryer).  Size of char?  Well -- with cotton cloth, cut about 1" -
1 1/2" squares.  I failed to mention linen cloth will work too, but it's a bit
expensive unless you have unusable scraps.  The other materials I mentioned
are "sized" when you remove them from the can at the time you'll use them.
Once cooked, you'll want to put your chat into another can with a close
fitting lid (without the hole) to keep it dry & ready to use.  If your chat
gets damp, put it in your "cooking can" & set out in the sun.  The sun's heat
on the black can will dry it out nicely in about 1 hr or so.

Hope this helps, & happy fire starting!

NM  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:02:20 EDT
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Christian missionaries to Rendezvous

You can also check with Dean Ruddy -- he has some of the letters Narcissa
Whitman wrote on line for down loading.  Another book that mentions
missionaries & has some excerpts from their writings is "Rocky Mountain
Rendezvous" by Fred R. Gowans -- ISBN 0-87905-193-0.  You'll be intrested in
the entries for 1836, 37, 38, 39, & 40.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:10:24 EDT
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..

In a message dated 98-09-13 15:04:53 EDT, you write:

<< To the question of burning glasses. They were used and are documented. They
were
 mounted in flattened wire frames with fancy little self hands. My friend
 "Digger" John used one to light his pipe when ever the sun was out. >>

I've done that -- works good.  Whe I first tried it, I didn't use the char &
it wouldn't work, but with the char, works great -- even on partly clowdy days
if you have a good lense.
NM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:10:21 EDT
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth..

In a message dated 98-09-13 15:04:53 EDT, you write:

<< To the question of burning glasses. They were used and are documented. They
were
 mounted in flattened wire frames with fancy little self hands. My friend
 "Digger" John used one to light his pipe when ever the sun was out. >>

I've done that -- works good.  Whe I first tried it, I didn't use the char &
it wouldn't work, but with the char, works great -- even on partly clowdy days
if you have a good lense.
NM

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