From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #139 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, September 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 139 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:50:33 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE0EA.7BBE9AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To all: Has anyone read or know about the book: "Conibear Beaver Trapping in = Open Water: Master Beaver Trapping Techniques" by Wesley Murphy? I'm sure it is not of the period, but wonder if it gives good = descriptions, etc. Gail Carbiener - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE0EA.7BBE9AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

To all:

Has anyone read = or know about=20 the book: "Conibear Beaver Trapping in Open Water: Master Beaver = Trapping=20 Techniques" by Wesley Murphy?

I'm sure it is = not of the=20 period, but wonder if it gives good descriptions, = etc.

Gail = Carbiener

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE0EA.7BBE9AA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:14:07 -0600 From: Dean Rudy Subject: MtMan-List: Web Site Addition The latest addition to the "Mountain Men and the Fur Trade" web site is the complete text of Brackenridge's "Journal of a Voyage up the Missouri River in 1811", from his book "Views of Lousiana...", published in 1814. It may be found at: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/Brackenridge/index.html Henry Marie Brackenridge ascended the Missouri River in 1811 with a party of the Missouri Fur Company, led by Manuel Lisa. That same year, a party of the Pacific Fur Company bound for Astoria and led by Wilson Price Hunt was also ascending the river. Brackenridge's Journal is an important historical source for both these expeditions. This electronic transcription and annotation of the journal was contributed by James Kyle, Missouri Coalition of Historical Trekkers. Coming soon - Bradbury's "Travels..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:02:18 -0600 From: Glenda Ryan Subject: MtMan-List: Brain Tanning My hubby and I are tanning hides in our usual fasion. However, since I've been cruising the information superhighway, I discovered a method that requires pre-smoking the hides. In otherwords, after fleshing, dehairing, braining, stretching and drying the hide, it is smoked, brained again, worked again, and smoked again. Has anyone else tried this twice-smoked method? How did it work? This method by Joseph and Virginia Dinsmore is found on the NativeTech.com web site. Thanks! rednest@gilanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:28:20 -0600 From: "David Tippets" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BDE143.945811A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gail,=20 Conibear and similar body-grip traps are of very modern design, so even = though that book isn't in my library I'm confident that it doesn't focus = on period methods of trapping beaver. You might try Beaver Trapping Miller Style by Dirk Miller. It contains = lots of contemporary beaver trapping techniques, but is the only bood = I've found that also describes methods that could have been effectively = used by mountain men in the 1820 to 1840 period. =20 Unlike most people writing books about beaver trapping, Miller traps his = beaver in the high mountain streams of the Rocky Mountains and so his = techniques are better adapted to the same environment where the mountain = men trapped. Particularly applicable are the techniques that Miller = describes for anchoring traps and drowning beaver. The same concepts = were esposed by professional tapper Calvin Cobb at the AMM Western = Nationals this year. Most of the books you'll find have trapping techniques that evolved for = efficiency for tappers wearing waders, carrying lots of wire, and = trapping in bottomlands where it is easy to drive stakes into deep = soils. Miller teaches a method that a primative trapper could use in = freezing temperature with wading up to his butt in freezing water, and = could successfully drown beaver with no wire or other materials not = available in 1830. =20 You can buy Miller's book from Montgomery Fur in Ogden, UT. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Gail Carbiener To: Hist_text@xmission.com Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 10:16 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... =20 =20 To all: =20 Has anyone read or know about the book: "Conibear Beaver = Trapping in Open Water: Master Beaver Trapping Techniques" by Wesley = Murphy? =20 I'm sure it is not of the period, but wonder if it gives good = descriptions, etc. =20 Gail Carbiener - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BDE143.945811A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gail,

Conibear and similar body-grip traps are of very = modern=20 design, so even though that book isn't in my library I'm confident that = it=20 doesn't focus on period methods of trapping beaver.

You might try Beaver Trapping Miller Style by Dirk=20 Miller. It contains lots of contemporary beaver trapping = techniques, but=20 is the only bood I've found that also describes methods that could have = been=20 effectively used by mountain men in the 1820 to 1840 period. =

Unlike most people writing books about beaver = trapping, Miller=20 traps his beaver in the high mountain streams of the Rocky Mountains and = so his=20 techniques are better adapted to the same environment where the mountain = men=20 trapped. Particularly applicable are the techniques that Miller = describes=20 for anchoring traps and drowning beaver. The same concepts were = esposed by=20 professional tapper Calvin Cobb at the AMM Western Nationals this=20 year.

Most of the books you'll find have trapping = techniques that=20 evolved for efficiency for tappers wearing waders, carrying lots of = wire, and=20 trapping in bottomlands where it is easy to drive stakes into deep = soils. =20 Miller teaches a method that a primative trapper could use in freezing=20 temperature with wading up to his butt in freezing water, and could = successfully=20 drown beaver with no wire or other materials not available in = 1830. =20

You can buy Miller's book from Montgomery Fur in = Ogden,=20 UT.

Dave

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Gail Carbiener <carbg@cmc.net>
To: Hist_text@xmission.com = <Hist_text@xmission.com>
= Date:=20 Tuesday, September 15, 1998 10:16 PM
Subject: = MtMan-List:=20 Beaver Book...

To all:

Has anyone = read or know=20 about the book: "Conibear Beaver Trapping in Open Water: Master = Beaver=20 Trapping Techniques" by Wesley Murphy?

I'm sure it = is not of the=20 period, but wonder if it gives good descriptions, = etc.

Gail=20 Carbiener

- ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BDE143.945811A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:28:42 EDT From: MIA3WOLVES@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Locacation List? We would be pleased to help any puritans into our 'vous ways. My fiancee does Mt. Man and I do the Native American woodland female. Located in Cincinnati, Ohio 45220. Red Hawk and Two Wolves MIA3WOLVES@aol.com (I am the proud owner of 3 hybred Timber Wolves) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:31:09 EDT From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Location List? Dave "Longshot" Hunt St. Louis, Mo. 63126 Lodgepole@aol.com http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:05:37 -0600 From: Wayne Mumford Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Web Site Addition Henry Marie Brackenridge also gives one of the accounts of "Colter's run" in this journal. Bradbury also has some Colter stuff in it. Great reading- a good look at life on the river in the early going. Is there anything yet on Thomas Nuttall(sp?) ? - -- Frontier Filmworks Still Photography by Wayne Mumford Locations-Prints-Stock Images The Lewis & Clark Trail http://gallery.in-tch.com/~ffw/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:10:10 +0000 From: "Tommy Edge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... > From: "David Tippets" > To: > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:28:20 -0600 > Reply-to: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > You can buy Miller's book from Montgomery Fur in Ogden, UT. Do they have a web page or a catalog. How do I get yo them? Thank You Tommy Edge I make Knives. http://www.nex.net/tedge/ A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:20:18 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... Sterling Fur Co. has a large suerlection of trapping books.. Most all are a good sorce of knowledge. Sterling Fur Co. @ Box 125G4, Frick Rd. Sterling, OH 44276 or Phone @ 330-939-3763. I'm from Okla. and have done quit a bit of Beaver trapping, and plan to do more this winter. If your close or I can help let me know. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:22:02 -0700 From: Chris Sega Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men - --------------24E5DE026B0DDF75C3413539 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Naples wrote: > I am interested in getting information a mountain man by the name of > Francisco Laforet. > a place called San Antonio del Rio Colorado when it was part of Mexican > Territory. > Today it is called Questa. Questa Is today in New Mexico, North of Taos. I would Suggest looking at books such as Wah To Yah & The Taos Trail And other books dealing with Taos. Hope this Helps some. - --------------24E5DE026B0DDF75C3413539 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael Naples wrote:

I am interested in getting information a mountain man by the name of
Francisco Laforet.
a place called San Antonio del Rio Colorado when it was part of Mexican
Territory.
Today it is called Questa.

Questa Is today in New Mexico, North of Taos. I would Suggest looking at books such as Wah To Yah & The Taos Trail And other books dealing with Taos. Hope this Helps some. - --------------24E5DE026B0DDF75C3413539-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:33:07 -0700 From: Chris Sega Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. Just a note, I got some scraps of pure linen, fustian etc at the western primitive in Nevada this summer, and it is the best damn char I have ever used. All of you sutlers and makers of fine linen, fustian etc.clothing would be great friends to us all if you brought that scrap to ronnyvoo, and let us have it for char. You could even charge for it. But the Christian thing to do would be to offer it free, which is how I got mine. Keep yur hair, Sega ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:33:27 -0500 From: "Ken" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... Trapper Joe wrote, > Sterling Fur Co. has a large suerlection of trapping books.. Most all are a > good sorce of knowledge. Sterling Fur Co. @ Box 125G4, Frick Rd. Sterling, OH > 44276 or Phone @ 330-939-3763. I'm from Okla. and have done quit a bit of > Beaver trapping, and plan to do more this winter. If your close or I can help > let me know. Thanks! Planning on moving back to VA this winter and this information will come in handy. YellowFeather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:37:55 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... KEN: didnt realize you were also a beaver trapper---I thought that you and I were the last of the professional "NOGGIE" trappers around---but as they say a trapper is a trapper and a mountain man is always looking for shineing times---say about 17 oct---have a few traps in st louis---do you need any---dont have any konibears---BD Young has a bunch---can check with him--that is what everyone has gone too. You will see a lot of beaver sign at EOLA and you might get a chance to pop one"trapping season starts "1 oct" i think--- and I will show you how to cook beaver tail right----"it don't tast like chicken" more like bear and with a little bit of "texas peat" of "texas lava", "it will make a child strike his daddy" ---the key is in the cooking. BTW: One tail will serve easily 2 and we might put a few fresh rainbow trout with it to add to the meal: if not will surely add the trout after the hunt. I aintr got no castorium---"so tink 69 will have to do" and probably all the beaver we see will have big horns or be three pointers---"lets hope" "going to be shineing times"--- deer hooter and raddeling horns are in the box--remember if you need it "its in the box" "and if you have it you might use it---Iron toung says to have me get your mind off the pain and back to the mountains and communication with the big maker.---gave iron toung the formula for "the over the log drink". waiting for a jag and will ship his new ramrod--may have to make it in st louis if it dont come in by the 8th YMHOSAPNT =+= "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:33:27 -0500 "Ken" writes: >Trapper Joe wrote, >> Sterling Fur Co. has a large suerlection of trapping books.. Most >all are >a >> good sorce of knowledge. Sterling Fur Co. @ Box 125G4, Frick Rd. >Sterling, OH >> 44276 or Phone @ 330-939-3763. I'm from Okla. and have done quit a >bit >of >> Beaver trapping, and plan to do more this winter. If your close or >I can >help >> let me know. > >Thanks! Planning on moving back to VA this winter and this information >will >come in handy. >YellowFeather > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:47:15 -0600 From: "David Tippets" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... Montgomery Fur Company 1539 West 3375 South Ogden, UT 84401 Phone: 801-731-7259 Their new catalog is out and available for the asking. You can also find their full page adds in all of the national trapping periodicals. Montgomery Fur is the manufacturer of the Bridger No.5 double longspring trap, the only currently manufactured trap that is close in size, weight, and design to the traps used during the latter part of the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade. - -----Original Message----- From: Tommy Edge To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 11:44 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... > From: "David Tippets" > To: > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:28:20 -0600 > Reply-to: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > You can buy Miller's book from Montgomery Fur in Ogden, UT. Do they have a web page or a catalog. How do I get yo them? Thank You Tommy Edge I make Knives. http://www.nex.net/tedge/ A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:05:32 -0700 From: Dale Nelson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... David Tippets wrote: > > Gail, > > Conibear and similar body-grip traps are of very modern design, so > even though that book isn't in my library I'm confident that it > doesn't focus on period methods of trapping beaver. > Caught myself once. Guess that don't count, 'cause it aint period. Ever try and get one of them conibear's off your arm all by yourself about 8 miles from home? Finally got it off and set in a runway just out of the water, and the next morning I had the biggest porkypine I've ever seen. Give up on beaver trappin' and went tried coyote. That critter dug up and sprung all my traps but one, and he took a dump on that one. If I need a hide I've found it's easier and probably cheaper to buy it already tanned. Aint near so embarassing either. DN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:02:43 -0500 From: "Sam Keller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. Any kind of natural fiber cloth will work as char. But I have a major = objection to using cloth as char. Can you imagine the amount of cloth you = would have to carry for a winters fire starting. 4 square inches (2" x 2") = of cloth makes a piece of char large enough to start a fire. 3 fires a = day, 7 days a week, requires 84 square inches of cloth. A year spent in = the wilderness will require 3 =BD square yards of cloth, an extravegent = (sic) expense. There are natural materials that can be foraged from the = field that will work, albeit not as easialy as cloth. YMOS Sleeping Bear >>> Chris Sega 09/16/98 09:33PM >>> Just a note, I got some scraps of pure linen, fustian etc at the western primitive in Nevada this summer, and it is the best damn char I have ever = used. All of you sutlers and makers of fine linen, fustian etc.clothing would be = great friends to us all if you brought that scrap to ronnyvoo, and let us have = it for char. You could even charge for it. But the Christian thing to do would = be to offer it free, which is how I got mine. Keep yur hair, Sega ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:21:38 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... Just in case anyone is interested Arkansas is having it State trapping association rendezvous this weekend at petie jean state park. I'll be there Also I make and sell what I believe is the best buck lure around. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:19:56 -0400 From: "Mill, Kirk" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. Although I agree with you that using fabric to make char would have = been wasteful, I have to take exception to your formula. I normally use a = piece about the size of my thumbnail to make fire, maybe =BD inch square. I = just stick this inside my nest of tinder and it seems to be plenty. Just my = 2 cents =20 Kirk Mill =20 -----Original Message----- From: Sam Keller [SMTP:skeller@transitiontec.com] Sent: Thursday, September 17, 1998 8:03 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com; chrissega1@powernet.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. Any kind of natural fiber cloth will work as char. But I have a major objection to using cloth as char. Can you imagine the amount of = cloth you would have to carry for a winters fire starting. 4 square inches = (2" x 2") of cloth makes a piece of char large enough to start a fire. 3 = fires a day, 7 days a week, requires 84 square inches of cloth.=20 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:25:54 -0500 From: "Ken" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Book... Hawk wrote, > KEN: > didnt realize you were also a beaver trapper---I thought that you and I > were the last of the professional "NOGGIE" trappers around---but as they > say a trapper is a trapper and a mountain man is always looking for > shineing times Yeah, I trapped possum, coon, beaver, and a few fox. Traded a fox pelt and a 45-100 Sharps bullet for my bow that I'll be bringing with me. - ---say about 17 oct--- Sounds good to me, I'm planning on two weeks worth! have a few traps in st louis---do you > need any-- Yeah, and I hate those new fangled traps! I read where that other feller had a coyote take a dump on one. He should have given that thing a decent burial! He ain't the only feller trapper to have a coyote laugh at him! Add yours truly to that list. it don't tast like chicken" more like bear and with a little > bit of "texas peat" of "texas lava", "it will make a child strike his > daddy" ---the key is in the cooking. I think I'd rather eat grubs! You can always swaller them whole. They aren't too bad if you have some real butter to cook them in. Heat the pan, dump in some butter, wait til it smokes a little and then throw in the grubs. Just scorch them a little and eat. > BTW: One tail will serve easily 2 and we might put a few fresh rainbow > trout with it to add to the meal: if not will surely add the trout after > the hunt. Hope we catch some trout! - -Iron toung says to have me get your mind off the pain and > back to the mountains and communication with the big maker. Sounds like a winner to me! - ---gave iron > toung the formula for "the over the log drink". waiting for a jag and > will ship his new ramrod--may have to make it in st louis if it dont come > in by the 8th I'll see you the 17th or maybe a little sooner. The data Butch sent was great. Printed out a map of ES and plotted a course through OK to the corner of Arkansas. Should be a real pretty drive. I'll be in the Taz Tracker so I'll bring some 5 gallon water containers for that dry camp. We will be the only ones there with a modern fully equipped weather station on wheels! YMDS, YellowFeather > YMHOSAPNT > =+= > "Hawk" > Michael Pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor, florida 34684 > 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com > > On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:33:27 -0500 "Ken" > writes: > >Trapper Joe wrote, > >> Sterling Fur Co. has a large suerlection of trapping books.. Most > >all are > >a > >> good sorce of knowledge. Sterling Fur Co. @ Box 125G4, Frick Rd. > >Sterling, OH > >> 44276 or Phone @ 330-939-3763. I'm from Okla. and have done quit a > >bit > >of > >> Beaver trapping, and plan to do more this winter. If your close or > >I can > >help > >> let me know. > > > >Thanks! Planning on moving back to VA this winter and this information > >will > >come in handy. > >YellowFeather > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:01:02 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. Sam Good to finally see you on this list. Charred cottonwood and pine (and probably many other species of wood) will catch a spark pretty easily if = it is not kept forever--thus picking up moisture from the air-- and can hard= ly be extingished. "Punky" wood serves best but is not strictly necessary. Charred wood can be made in your trusty char can but you can make serviceable charred wood for fire making purposes by digging a small hole near the fire, raking a few likely looking hot coals into it and burying them with dirt. The charcoal is then excavated in a few hours and stashe= d with your fire makin's. The hole serves the same purpose as a char can an= d one can be found near just about any fire (just pick up a little dirt and= lo and behold, there it is!!) and can be left behind when you are through.. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff - -----Original Message----- From: Sam Keller To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com ; chrissega1@powernet.net Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 8:59 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. Any kind of natural fiber cloth will work as char. But I have a major objection to using cloth as char. Can you imagine the amount of cloth you would have to carry for a winters fire starting. 4 square inches (2" x 2"= ) of cloth makes a piece of char large enough to start a fire. 3 fires a da= y, 7 days a week, requires 84 square inches of cloth. A year spent in the wilderness will require 3 =BD square yards of cloth, an extravegent (sic) expense. There are natural materials that can be foraged from the field t= hat will work, albeit not as easialy as cloth. YMOS Sleeping Bear >>> Chris Sega 09/16/98 09:33PM >>> Just a note, I got some scraps of pure linen, fustian etc at the western primitive in Nevada this summer, and it is the best damn char I have ever used. All of you sutlers and makers of fine linen, fustian etc.clothing would b= e great friends to us all if you brought that scrap to ronnyvoo, and let us have = it for char. You could even charge for it. But the Christian thing to do would= be to offer it free, which is how I got mine. Keep yur hair, Sega ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:48:26 -0500 From: "Sam Keller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. I totally agree, and this goes with what I am trying to get across. Who = would have wanted to "burn" cloth better suited for clothing? S.B. >>> "Lanney Ratcliff" 09/17/98 04:01PM >>> Sam Good to finally see you on this list. Charred cottonwood and pine (and probably many other species of wood) will catch a spark pretty easily if = it is not kept forever--thus picking up moisture from the air-- and can = hardly be extingished. "Punky" wood serves best but is not strictly necessary. Charred wood can be made in your trusty char can but you can make serviceable charred wood for fire making purposes by digging a small hole near the fire, raking a few likely looking hot coals into it and burying them with dirt. The charcoal is then excavated in a few hours and stashed with your fire makin's. The hole serves the same purpose as a char can and one can be found near just about any fire (just pick up a little dirt and = lo and behold, there it is!!) and can be left behind when you are through.. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff - -----Original Message----- From: Sam Keller To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com ; chrissega1@powernet.net Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 8:59 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. Any kind of natural fiber cloth will work as char. But I have a major objection to using cloth as char. Can you imagine the amount of cloth you would have to carry for a winters fire starting. 4 square inches (2" x 2") of cloth makes a piece of char large enough to start a fire. 3 fires a = day, 7 days a week, requires 84 square inches of cloth. A year spent in the wilderness will require 3 =BD square yards of cloth, an extravegent (sic) expense. There are natural materials that can be foraged from the field = that will work, albeit not as easialy as cloth. YMOS Sleeping Bear >>> Chris Sega 09/16/98 09:33PM >>> Just a note, I got some scraps of pure linen, fustian etc at the western primitive in Nevada this summer, and it is the best damn char I have ever used. All of you sutlers and makers of fine linen, fustian etc.clothing would be great friends to us all if you brought that scrap to ronnyvoo, and let us have = it for char. You could even charge for it. But the Christian thing to do would = be to offer it free, which is how I got mine. Keep yur hair, Sega ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:13:38 -0600 From: Dean Rudy Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. At 04:48 PM 9/17/98 -0500, Sam wrote: >I totally agree, and this goes with what I am trying to get across. Who would have wanted to "burn" cloth better suited for clothing? > Probably no one - but a cotton shirt doesn't last all that long in the wilderness. They can get shredded/threadbare pretty quick with full-time use. Consider that one worn-out cotton shirt probably has 3 sq yards of material. As Sam observed, that would be enough to make fires for almost a year. And it's reasonable to assume that small groups of men shared a single fire. Records indicate that cotton shirts were common purchases at rendezvous. So one worn-out shirt per party per year doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me. They could also use the scrap cloth for gun patches. But it's all speculation, unless somebody knows of a source that describes first-hand what they used for char (or gun patches for that matter). - -Dean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:36:14 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. Birch bark burns like tissue even without charing. I haven't tried it but I bet it would really work good chared. Birch bark even burns like paper wet. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:02:23 EDT From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charcloth.. In a message dated 98-09-17 10:00:36 EDT, you write: << Can you imagine the amount of cloth you would have to carry for a winters fire starting. 4 square inches (2" x 2") of cloth makes a piece of char large enough to start a fire. 3 fires a day, 7 days a week, requires 84 square inches of cloth. >> No it doesn't! Ever hear of "banking a fire"? It's an art for which we have kinda lost the skill. Read almost any "settlement story" & at bed time, they'll usualy refer at least once to "banking the fire". This was a method used before matches of holding live coals over night so in the morning all that was needed was a little tender, twigs, a few blows on the coals either by lung power or a bellows & POOF! -- you had fire agin. Try burrying a bunch of hot coals in the ashes & see if you don't have at least one good hot live one the next morning. With this common method, the only time char cloth was needed was for a new location or in case the coals were put out by rain if the fire wasn't protected properly. If a trapper was on the moove, he'd build a fire in the evening with flint & steel, bank it, then light the morning fire off the previous evening's coals. At noon, he might build a fire, but more than likely not. In Winter camp, he may have needed to "start fresh" once or twice a month if he was careful or moved to another location. Then too, there was the practice of carrying coals with them. That practice dates back to cave man days & certain Indian tribes did it too for ceremonial fires. Wish I could remember where I read it, but one medicine man bragged his fire was over 50 years old because he carried the coals & relit the new fires from the previous ones with this method. Then too, as others have pointed out, worn out shirts, punk wood, moss, & several other materials were used for char when needed. NM ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #139 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.