From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #1029 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Monday, October 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1029 Re: (klr650) over torque Re: (klr650) La KLR Re: (klr650) 6000 mi service horror Re: (klr650) Lights off/Lights on Re: (klr650) RE: 6000 mi horror RE: (klr650) 6000 mi service horror Re: (klr650) KLR wins over GS (klr650) RE: 6000 mi horror NKLR Re: (klr650) 6000 mi service horror ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:08:29 -0700 From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" Subject: Re: (klr650) over torque > I know it's really bad to over torque a bunch of things, but what about > the axle nut? The first time I loosened it it was on damn tight, so I > figured I'd just put it back on damn tight and not worry about it. > Should I just go out and spend the $75 on a ft-lb torque wrench? or can > I get away with damn tight when it comes to the axle nut? This is a situation that I like to call "German Torque" you know, guttentite! Actually, you don't need to spend a lot on a torque wrench for a job like this, a simple beam type, which costs about $20 for a really good model at Sears, will do the job very nicely. With the axle nut good and tight, and a new cotter pin installed, so long as you don't tighten too much and strip the threads, every thing is kosher. Jeff Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:32:30 -0700 From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" Subject: Re: (klr650) La KLR > I just ran across the France KLR650, and thought some of yall would be > interested in seeing it. > http://www.kawasaki-fr.com/ > You might have to dig a little to find the KLR. But they have 2 colors to > choose from, and different guages. It looks like their is no tach. But other > than that, it looks good. I like the red. Looks just like the other European KLR that I saw on the Internet. No cheesy plastic skid plate, there are frame tubes that protect the bottom of the case. It also looks like the front suspension only has 220 mm travel, and the rear has 200 mm of travel. The US model has 230 mm, front and rear. I didn't note the fuel capacity, but the tank looks smaller. I also wonder if the brakes are the same as the US model, or if they are better. Jeff Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:07:34 -0700 From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" Subject: Re: (klr650) 6000 mi service horror > Second question: Is there a good way to make this 2 left-handed, 10 thumbs > aerospace engineer/physicist into a decent mechanic? I want to know just > from hearing that I'm 'sucking air somewhere'. Are local college courses > reasonable? Suggestions? > You probably could take a course, community education or something, experience gained turning wrenches under supervision would be good. You call yourself an engineer??? As engineers, it is our job to know how things work, part of that is getting the hands on knowledge. (I'm going to be graduating with my B.S. in ME next year, and I'll have taken the Fundamentals of Engineering exam before then). Anyway, it is a simple and easy transition from the theoretical to the practical. Get the service manuals, Fred Hink at Arrowhead Motorsports has them, http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/index.html . Go over them cover to cover, and do a detailed systems analysis, going between bike, and book and back. From what I read, you did your own valves? Well all right then, you are doing just fine. As much as car and motorcycle dealers would like you believe, there is no magical sacred ritualistic mysticism in turning wrenches. It is simply a methodical, well thought out approach to solving a problem, and I'm sure that you are familiar with solving problems. As for coordination in actually handling the various wrenches, screwdrivers, and what not, that comes with experience. Just be careful and everything is cool. Don't mean to chastise you, but you need some confidence here. (I mean, I've run across some real dunces turning wrenches for dealers, it doesn't take a rocket scientist!) A few years, and you'll marvel at all the money you save by doing your own work and not paying someone else to do it, and will have the good vibes from knowing the job was done right, and not mucked up by some squid getting overpaid to mess up other peoples bikes/cars. Think about this; a dealer or other service shop only cares about getting you in and out, and getting your money. They don't actually care if the job was done correctly, its not their bike. Shoot, I've even seen places screw up simple things like oil changes (oil level was too high, oil drain plug was cross-threaded), and tire rotations (lug nuts that mount the spare tire were stripped by over zealous idiot with air wrench.). Anyway, I (almost always) do all my own work on my cars and bikes. That goes for around the house too, I never call a plumber or electrician, or any other contractor. I do all my re-modeling work and repairs myself. (This has been a huge learning process for me, lots of research on my part. I'm sure that a pro could do the job faster, but I need to learn, and I can't afford to pay one. As long as the necessary permits are purchased, and the work is inspected, then the State is happy, usually.) Jeff PS, a good quality set of tools is the best investment you can make. I almost exclusively get Sears Craftsman. If I ever get frustrated with a job, I sit down and clean and polish my wrenches and think about the problem. I'm soon happy and try again Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:32:39 -0600 From: "Skip Faulkner" Subject: Re: (klr650) Lights off/Lights on >Got a couple lighting questions for the list. > >I'd like to intsall a toggle or other switch to turn the headlight off >while riding at lower speeds, off and fireroads to conserve the battery >(while I keep warm with the vest :^) Does anyone know of a purpose made >switch for this? > >Has anyone installed the Motolights on the KLR650? Are they susceptible to >damage in a tip-over? > >Thanks in advance, > > > > >Pat Rileyville, VA Pat, I changed my fuse system to pullable aircraft circuit breakers and they are now mounted on the left side of my bike where I can reach them. When I want my lights off, I just pull the breaker. I have access to several styles of switches for the purpose you`re referring to. Let me know what style switch and I`ll tell you where you can get it and how to wire it. Skip Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:40:06 -0500 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Y._Gonz=E1lez?=" Subject: Re: (klr650) RE: 6000 mi horror > My problem is that I can follow directions well, but, due to not knowing > some basics, I'm missing the obvious. Let me give you an analogy in the > computer world....I was trying to explain to my Mother how to get to AOL > mail....not a difficult task normally. But, she does not have the basic > understanding of how windows work on the computer screen (like, how they > hide behind each other). So, what 'everyone' knows does not apply to her. > > I know that this sounds stupid to those with mechanical experience. > However, not all of us have it. > I doubt that there is a solution to this other than painful learning. I too > will use your method of openly asking for help at the next maintaince > period....my warrantee will be expired by then:) > Michael Allow me to humbly offer some advice to anyone beginning to wrench, based on my own learning experiences... I think you can avoid some of the painful learning in the early stages of wrenching by pretending that you are a surgeon before every major procedure you do on the bike. It may sound silly, but going into it with a professional attitude can save some major headaches, especially for those of us who are not proficient with the wrench (myself included). Take for example a valve adjust procedure... - --First I would suggest familiarizing yourself with what your going to be working with. If you have no idea what an overhead camshaft is, now would be a good time to learn what it is, what it does, and how it works. I just went to Barnes and Noble and sat down with a motorcycle maintance book for an hour or two to get a basic idea of how an engine mechanically works. Having an idea of how your type of engine (or valve train system) operates can help you avoid and spot any basic mistakes. - --Second, BUY THE SERVICE MANUALS and sit down with them until you understand exactly what you will be doing every step along the way. These manuals are a pain in the butt because they assume some mechanical knowledge, and because sometimes they are poorly written and translated. But hopefully some basic knowledge would have been picked up by now. I know I had to reread the instructions in the manual more than once. Reading the service manual is like reading a dictionary, sometime you have to refer to other procedures to fully understand everything that you will have to do. This is also the time to take your questions to the list, before you start. You'll probably have many at this point. - --Third, after you've received clarification on questions, rehearse in your head how you will perform the procedure, from beginning to end. This is kind of a check for understanding. If you can imagine doing the procedure without any big nagging doubts, your almost good to go. - --Fourth, read any tech articles on the KLR website. Now these articles should make more sense and will be better able to help you because they probably expose any snafus along the way you might not be expecting. It also serves as a good review. - --Fourth, when you begin working, be methodical. Have all your tools ready, and don't rush. Anything you strip out or break will likely be very expensive to replace. Aluminum is very unforgiving when it comes to using incorrect tools, so buy the right ones, including a torque wrench (spending money on tools is better than putting money it the bank, so don't ever hesitate to spend it on the right ones). Have a clean area available where you can lay out the parts you've removed, and try and keep them logically arranged so the bike goes back together easily. Make sure you have enough time to do what you want to do. Go back to the list if you hit any problems. If you hit any big problems, it may be time for a break so you dont end up damaging the bike in desperation, have a beer or something or just leave it till the next day when you have a clear head. It's also a good idea to make sure your having a certain degree of fun, or at least a sense of adventure when your wrenching. You could be paying someone else to be doing this, but your not... be it because you don't trust your local shop, or because you just want the satisfaction of taking care of your own bike. Wrenching is part of the motorcylcing experience, enjoy it like you would a nice ride in the boonies. This may all sound like overkill, but I can guarantee that if you put reasonable effort into preperation before wrenching it will pay off. Chances are that after you are done with any certain procedure there will be very little mystery left about it, and you will feel more confident about wrenching and attacking any future projects. Hope this helps, Carlos P.S. Also, its a good idea to have some rubbing alchohol or peroxide around. Sooner or later you will be shedding blood for the privelage of working on your own bike. In my case it was when I least expected it...I just finished adjusting the chain when I stood up and introduced the top of my head to the bottom of the helmet hook. The result was at least a cup of blood all over the garage floor. If this happens, just walk away from your bike a quickly as you can before you push it over and inflict more damage than you can afford to repair...emotions can run high when you take a stubbed toe and multiply it by ten ! :) Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:55:40 -0700 From: Richard Ohnstad Subject: RE: (klr650) 6000 mi service horror Michael, My suggestion would be to check with a local (if you have one) = vocational-technical high school or community college and see what they = offer evenings. Some even have courses specifically for motorcycle = repair. If no motorcycle courses, try to find an introductory course on = auto maintenance - anything to get started and build up your comfort = level. If no formal training is available in your area, then I would = look for a riding buddy. Most of us get pretty frustrated with work = done at the dealers and we try to do anything we possibly can. =20 As to the comment, "You call yourself an engineer???", that writer seems = to be making the assumption that you can't be a competent aerospace = engineer/physicist without being a decent mechanic. I don't think = that's a correct assumption!=20 Richard in Tucson '94 KLR650 '86 VFR750=20 > Second question: Is there a good way to make this 2 left-handed, 10 thumbs > aerospace engineer/physicist into a decent mechanic? I want to know = just > from hearing that I'm 'sucking air somewhere'. Are local college = courses > reasonable? Suggestions? > You probably could take a course, community education or something, experience gained turning wrenches under supervision would be good. You call yourself an engineer??? As engineers, it is our job to know = how things work, part of that is getting the hands on knowledge. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:10:32 +0000 From: Kahiau Subject: Re: (klr650) KLR wins over GS Which racks of Tim's do you have? I have his (mine now) Northwest Rack with the E36 Givi saddle bags. E14, kahiau Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 03:22:59 EDT From: NvlopXpndr@aol.com Subject: (klr650) RE: 6000 mi horror NKLR Michael.Wehner@trw wrote: My problem is that I can follow directions well, but, due to not knowing some basics, I'm missing the obvious. //snip// A recent situation was my valve check. Check valves, they're OK. So, away we go. I had no idea that the timing chain could cause a problem (maybe hit on cover removal). //snip// I know that this sounds stupid to those with mechanical experience. However, not all of us have it. I DO KNOW that I know how to reattach a hose or choke, something that my dealer apparently does not. I doubt that there is a solution to this other than painful learning. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think you're right, but painful doesn't necessarily mean expensive. At one point we all knew nothing, and what worked for me with both cars and motorcycles was finding something inexpensive to experiment/screw up/learn on. Since the state of the dual-purpose art moves slowly, even a twenty year old bike can provide useful experience. Things that helped reduce the pain were dedicated "clunker clothes," a gardener's cushion, and kitchen gloves for the *serious* grime. The right old bike, service manual, and some tools could easily cost less than hiring a pro to fix a mistake on the new & nice bike...And when something bad happens miles from civilization, at least you've got a chance. 'tis the season for deals on bikes, Jim in LA Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 02:46:56 -0700 From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" Subject: Re: (klr650) 6000 mi service horror >As to the comment, "You call yourself an engineer???", that writer seems to be making the >assumption that you can't be a competent aerospace engineer/physicist without being a decent >mechanic. I don't think that's a correct assumption! Look, maybe I sounded insulting, but it was ment to motivate, not degrade. Engineers are paid to solve problems, and the level of attention paid to detail is crucial, because peoples lives are usually at stake. Case in point: any engineering designs that have to do with commercial air travel. I'm not making any assumptions about the man's compentency in his profession, only that he is an engineer/physicist (a rocket scientist??). He should in no way feel that he isn't up to the task, because any monkey can turn a wrench. (Well, there are a few things to learn, like this mnemonic I always use "Righty tighty, Lefty Loosey", and learning the feel of operating the tools so as not to cause damage.) The skill involved in mechanics is in correctly diagnosing the problem, and then following a step by step procedure to pinpoint the cause and correct it. As an engineer, he should be well up to the task, better off than most, because he should know how to effeciently find and learn any information that he needs to accomplish the task. Unfortunately, the service manuals from Kawasaki pretty much suck for the beginner, but they are all that is available, so any other books on general motorcycle maintenance and repair would be called for. The best service manual I ever owned was for my VW Bug. It was titled "How to Keep Your VW Alive, A Step by Step Guide for the Complete Idiot." Absolutely grand. It was through this manual that I became proffecient at wrenching on VW's, and then I realized that with a good manual, I can maintain or repair ANYTHING! Jeff Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #1029 *****************************