From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #1139 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Saturday, November 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1139 Re: (klr650) NKLR- Soggy in Seattle RE: (klr650) NKLR- Soggy in Seattle Re: (klr650) NKLR Oil article Re: (klr650) NKLR- Soggy in Seattle (klr650) Re: ..balancer adjust Re: (klr650) Re: ..balancer adjust (klr650) nklr Soggy in Seattle (klr650) Pushpulls (klr650) NKLR--Oil Types (klr650) Re: klr650-digest V2 #1138 (klr650) Bike Breakdown Mystery (klr650) Bike Breakdown Mystery-- forgot something Re: (klr650) NKLR- Soggy in Seattle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:01:18 -0800 From: Rob Gendreau Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR- Soggy in Seattle I once thought Seattle was wet. Then I spent some time on northern Vancouver Island and in the Charlottes. Now I know what a rainforest is. It's so wet up there the locals totally ignore it. They just walk around soaking wet all the time; no big deal. Couple years ago, it rained over sixty inches in a month in Zeballos. That's Feb, the short month. My hat's off to 'em up there. - -- Rob Gendreau Oakland, California rob-g@pacbell.net Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:24:37 -0800 From: "Dreas Nielsen" Subject: RE: (klr650) NKLR- Soggy in Seattle No, Juan, you're right on. On the other hand, I've never had a latte in my life, so I know you're not talking about me... Dreas Juan Villarreal wrote: > I don't understand the big hubbub about this > place... > Now before anyone gets REALLY ANGRY at me Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 20:42:38 -0700 From: " Skip Faulkner" Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR Oil article >Mobil Uno 15-50 Auto for that young floozy Mobil 1 motorcycle. The listers >that went to Diesel oil also didn't fare well in this account but at least >they didn't spend a lot of $. > >I noticed that, FWIW, I hedged my bet and mixed 50% Premium Blue and 50% >Mobil 1 non-SJ...but I'm going back to straight Mobil 1... > >Kurt Although I agree with most of this article, I think he needs to re-test the diesel oils. Although the brands I tested were different, the content for the zinc and phosphorus was higher and the numbers I got from three different refineries were also higher. Results from two different oil analysis companies ( that I use regularly for aircraft oil) gave averages of .15%ppm and .13%ppm for zinc and phosphorus, respectively, on the Shell and Chevron diesel oils. What the author refers to as " rumor" that diesel oils provide better protection and corrosion resistance, is substantiated by the fact that the compression ratio of the average diesel is three times higher than that of a gasoline engine, although the rpm`s are considerably lower. The higher and different requirements of the diesel engine are also the reason for a different rating system. Therefore, my findings and those of the oil companies themselves differ from the author`s. Especially if you are comparing mineral oils. The oil company reps I deal with even recommend diesel oil over car and most motorcycle specific oil. Even in the article, while only two diesel oils were used, the zinc and phosphorus levels were considerably higher than the other mineral oils except for the BMW. So if you don`t want to use synthetic oil, or want to keep costs down, you`re still better off with the diesel oil, even the lower level ones the author tested. Also, he didn`t mention that most of the BMW (factory trained) mechanics are recommending ( off the record) Kawasaki brand oil, which is actually made by Citco and still being produced without the SJ rating. Keep in mind that you will find some oils that don`t have the API donut on them, but say " API SJ Compliant", or "Meets API SJ standards", which means that the oil meets the API lubricating and protection standards for SJ, but has used different additives to obtain the same standards,i.e. keeping the higher levels of zinc and phosphorous instead of using friction modifiers. In other words, an oil cannot receive the API "donut" unless it meets the criteria for SJ oil using the same additives, although the performance is the same. To answer another question the article brought up, " What about oils that have multiple ratings?" i.e.. SG,SH,SJ. Most oils have multiple ratings and the main one that counts is the most recent. The reason this is done is because of engines manufactured before the current API rating. There are a lot of motors ( car, motorcycle, etc..) whose manuals state to use an oil whose rating is now obsolete, so as to prevent confusion, most oils show the new rating plus the rating that was superseded. For example, my bike manual says to use only API SF or SG oil. SF and SG had been superseded by SH. If the oil bottles only listed the current rating,(SH) I wouldn`t have known what to use. Since SH was equal to or exceeded the requirements of the older oils, the older ratings are also listed. This worked fine until SJ came along and used friction modifiers ( clutch slippage) to replace the higher levels of zinc and phosphorus, which works ok in a car but not in a motorcycle engine. Therefore, SJ meets or exceeds SG and SH specifications, but by using different additives to do it. For this reason, diesel oils use a different rating, which should also be developed for motorcycles. Not mentioned was that the " worst oils" for the motorcycle with a wet clutch is the oils showing the API "starburst". This is the round seal with the multiple point border, and usually says " Energy Conserving". Oil weights with this label have the higher levels of friction modifiers, which have been blamed for slippage in wet clutch bikes. I am still trying to finish an in-depth post with information such as what the oil companies are doing about the SJ problem, what the motorcycle companies are doing, and the alternatives to some of the desired oil to use but cost too much, such as buying the generic version of the BMW oil from the actual manufacturer of the BMW oil. For example, the Citco 20W50 SH oil ( still being made according to my company informant) is half the price of the same oil with Kawasaki`s name on it. As soon as my life slows down a little, I`ll have it finished. I`d also like warn that the practice of using STP additives in oil to raise the zinc and phosphorus levels is OK for mineral oils, but a big no-no for synthetics. I`ve talked to Mobil, Shell and Castrol tech reps who have all screamed that there is strong evidence that additives and synthetic oil are not compatible. What has been demonstrated to occur is that it sometimes screws with the synthetic matrix and prevents the polymers from behaving properly in the area of viscosity change in the presence of higher temps. In other words, additives have been shown to reduce the protection qualities of the synthetic oils. I personally have not received the report studies on this, put have been assured that I will by two of the three companies contacted. As a footnote, both Baja Designs and I have had analysis done on the Mobil 1 before and after their SJ compliance and show a slight reduction .13%ppm to .11%ppm) in zinc and phosphorus levels. In my opinion ( and Baja Design`s) this reduction is not as much a factor as it would be in a mineral oil, due to the other superior qualities of Mobil`s synthetics. In other words, the reduction is not sufficient to justify changing to a different oil if one is currently using Mobil 1, or to prevent someone from trying Mobil 1. Keep in mind that there have been numerous complaints of clutch slippage due to the use of synthetic oil, but if this happens, just quit using it. Many owners of wet clutch bikes swear by it, with no problems. I personally experienced clutch slippage while using AMSOIL, but not with the Mobil 1. Skip ( enough for now) Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:55:44 -0800 From: "Robert Morgan" Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR- Soggy in Seattle Juan, dude, make the best of it. Puget Sound is cosmic. You just have to get out of town a little ways. How long are you there for? If you are there for a while get on the ferry boats. They will take you right across to Bainbridge Island and then over to the Olympic Peninsula. Then take the ferry out of Port Townsend over to Whidbey Island. The Navy does foul weather training ops there so its gray this time of year. On the north end of the island is a tall bridge that spans "Deception Pass". This narrow gap was believed to be the eastern entrance to the "northwest passage" by Juan de Fuca, the guy that discovered the sound (Puget Sound...not grunge rock). Go stand on this bridge and watch the tide change. Many things will be revealed to you. No really. Morgan Left coast, lower left hand corner p.s. The Interplanetary Headquarters of the renowned R.E.I. coop www.rei.com is right in Seattle. It is the ultimate outdoor equipment outfitters. It is acres in size....indoor mountain bike area, largest indoor climbing structure in the world. Check it out, it's cool. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 00:19:33 -0500 From: "Danodemotoman" Subject: (klr650) Re: ..balancer adjust Thanks for the resonses for the balancer adjust. This list and partricipants is a great resource. But I gota buy two ? manuals for the KLR650..the KLR600 and what..a supplement? - Dan P, COG 2877, AMA 549865, CMA, UMCI '93 KLX650R Baja d/s kit 'Dirt Boss' '00 KLR650 'Urban Assault Bike' '98 Kaw Concours ZG1000 'Grrr' 51K miles '70 Suzuki T500 Titan 'Dayjavoo' Yo Ho, Yo Ho, it's a bikers life for me! Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 22:25:23 -0700 From: "Fred Hink" Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: ..balancer adjust The Base Manual is for the KLR600 and the Supplement is for the KLR650. I have them both in stock, if you want them let me know. Fred Hink ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Arrowhead Motorsports http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com 435-259-7356 Fax 419-818-3173 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - ----- Original Message ----- From: Danodemotoman To: Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 10:19 PM Subject: (klr650) Re: ..balancer adjust > Thanks for the resonses for the balancer adjust. This list and partricipants is a great resource. > But I gota buy two ? manuals for the KLR650..the KLR600 and what..a supplement? > > - > Dan P, COG 2877, AMA 549865, CMA, UMCI > '93 KLX650R Baja d/s kit 'Dirt Boss' > '00 KLR650 'Urban Assault Bike' > '98 Kaw Concours ZG1000 'Grrr' 51K miles > '70 Suzuki T500 Titan 'Dayjavoo' > Yo Ho, Yo Ho, it's a bikers life for me! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net > for info. > Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 07:07:12 GMT From: "Di or Eddie C" Subject: (klr650) nklr Soggy in Seattle My wife begged me to get a dog. She sent me an e-mail at work - here is her quote: "If you let me get Velvet I'll let you get a YZF 1000. (seems a fair exchange if you ask me.)" I keep that e-mail in a safe place. Now, I'm all for people picking up after their dogs. This dog is especially big - over 100 lbs. It really can leave a big mess. When we walk it, I remind my wife that I haven't got my YZF yet. She carries the bag. Eddie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 05:42:45 -0600 From: aches@deltech.net (Chesley, Andrus) Subject: (klr650) Pushpulls Well a couple reasons for push pulls. Light return springs to easy the job of holding the throttle open for long periods of time. Bad wear on the slides where it would actually hang up on older non CV's. . And added insurance incase the return spring breaks on the butterfly on CV's. My guesses. - -- Cheers and Best Regards Andy Chesley @ 56 and ticking Jennings, La. R11RA,DR350SET,A14 "So Many Roads, So Little Time" http://www.deltech.net/members/aches Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 05:51:49 PST From: "CrazyDave" Subject: (klr650) NKLR--Oil Types Skip, Do you have any thoughts about using Aeroshell 15-50 or any other aeroshell oils in the KLR? A friend of mine swears by it, he is an old m/c mech that is now an aircraft mech. I dont remember the specs of the oils from my old days as a wrench bender. crazydave ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:20:08 EST From: GVBettes@aol.com Subject: (klr650) Re: klr650-digest V2 #1138 In a message dated 11/12/99 6:50:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: > I've sworn off full synth and gone back to my old > staple, Castrol GTX. Sure is nice to have others test things for you. Seems that some who try synth oils wind up going back to good old Castrol. So far every mod I have done has been in accordance with information from this list. Everything worked the first time and provided the benefits outlined in the discussions. Going out today to install a jet kit ot go with my new Trapp. Hope this works out as well. Gary B. - still running Castrol 20-50 wt. at the toop of the sight glass A10 Boat Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 16:31:25 EST From: joshvr6@aol.com Subject: (klr650) Bike Breakdown Mystery Hi, I've had a problem twice w/ my KLR. Basically the bike just dies. It happens when i ride the bike at Interstate speeds for say around 30min+ at above 80mph. Then when i get off the freeway, it just dies. It acts like it's not getting any fuel. but when i check the lines everything is all good. Anybody have any ideas? Cause i'm stumped. josh Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 16:41:35 EST From: joshvr6@aol.com Subject: (klr650) Bike Breakdown Mystery-- forgot something Now, i had a buddy pick me up and take the bike back to my house. It's been 2 days, and i finally had a chance to look at it, and this morning it started right up. So i dunno what's going on. I didn't even touch it and it starts now. I'm thinking maybe vapor-loc or something? i dunno. Thanks josh Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 15:54:53 -0800 From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR- Soggy in Seattle > Welp, here I sit, in the "Great NW," currently in > the grips of yet another cold downpour. Same as > it was yesterday, much like it will probably be > tomorrow. Oh, to be a weatherman here- I > couldn't think of an easier gig... > It doesn't rain in Seattle as much as everyone thinks it does, it just so happens that it rains pretty regularly from late fall through spring, and some in the summer too. You get used to it. What is nice about it is that you don't have to water your lawn, it keeps the air clean, and you don't have to worry about temperature extremes. Winters rarely get below freezing, and summers rarely get above 90. If you want real rain, catch a ferry across to the Olympic Pennisula and go to the rain forrest. I'm still in the NW, in Eastern Washington. It was in the mid 70's here yesterday, which really made for a crappy duck hunt, so we gave up on the ducks and limited out on pheasants instead. Its in the 70's and clear today also. I wish it would get cold! > I don't understand the big hubbub about this > place... The weather sucks, they don't know what > it is to have a good meal (no soybean burgers for > me, thank you), and the people actually follow > their dogs around with plastic baggies. We have more dogs here in the NW than we know what to do with, and the homeless guys get a little uptight when the dogs shit where they are going to be sleeping! There are at least two parks in Seattle where you can let your dogs off the leash. You'll notice how crowded the streets are, and how nobody has a yard of their own for their dog to shit in, so the pooper scooper law is a great thing. You should have seen how bad things were before..... As for good food, I suggest you try Rositas, on Woodlawn Ave N. for some of the best Mexican I've ever had. Its a few doors down from the BMW motorcycle shop. If you want a good, cheap hamburger, you can't beat Dick's Drive In, on 45th Ave, west of I-5. If you want to eat a good steak, go to Cave Man Kitchen, in Kent, where they cook with firewood. If you want some good, cheap terriaki, go to Yashukos, also on Woodlawn Ave N, a block past the Albertsons Grocery. If you like a fancier burger joint, the very first Red Robin is located on Roosevelt Avenue, on the south side of the Ship Canal. > I've managed to make my own fun, though... Was > almost arrested the other day for having the > audacity to barge into a Starbuck's Coffeehouse > (Pretentiousness Central) and ask for a cup of > Folger's. Jaws dropped, women fainted, kids ran > for cover... The yuppies were pretty horrified, > all right, but I thought it was well worth it... > Yeah, I hate Starbucks. Seattle's Best Coffee is better, and if you go into the University District, there are a million coffee shops all over the place. > If $3 for a cup of coffee- or $1.60 for a gallon > of gas- The price of gas really went up after the refinery in Anacordus, north of Seattle, blew up, and then recently, a gas pipeline in Bellingham blew up. Anyway, the huge tankers are having to ship refined gasoline further down the Sound than they ever had to before. It even affected us here in the Tri-cities, where previously we hadn't paid over $1 per gallon for years. So are you there at McCord AFB then? I used to live practically right at the end of their runway while I was stationed at Ft. Lewis. Sometimes I miss the rain.....especially this time of year. Remember, only sissies use umbrellas! Jeff Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #1139 *****************************