From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #121 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Friday, March 12 1999 Volume 02 : Number 121 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:05:13 +0000 From: Sarah Barwig Subject: (klr650) NKLR Torque > > Vik, Chris et al, I did flunk Physics, so I can't figure out how a bigger > rotor can stop any quicker without an increase in braking area (pads), isn't > that why the really big boys use 6 piston calipers to increase pressure and > area of contact?I promise to drop this question after this. Frank OK. The spoke connects the rim of the wheel (next to the tire/tyre) to the hub of the wheel (next to the axle). Both ends of the spoke travel around the circle described by the wheel at the same speed (velocity). The diameter of the wheel at the hub is much smaller than the diameter of the wheel at the rim. So the absolute distance that the spoke travels at the hub is much smaller than the absolute distance at the rim. If I were to place a braking surface at the hub of the wheel whatever contact patch I had with it would only contact it as fast as it could move around the hub (very small). The same size contact patch further out towards the rim would contact it more as it moved around the circle. So for one rotation of the wheel, more patch on the rotor will be contacted by the brake pads as the rotor is moved further out towards the rim from the hub. Thus more braking power. Yes, if the brake pads were enlarged, then there would be more contact area. So that would also increase braking power. Either change will work, but the rotor is probably cheaper than the 6-piston caliper... Sarah - -- Beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, There is a field. I'll meet you there. -Rumi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:18:43 -0800 From: "Arne Larsen" Subject: Re: (klr650) Don't sweat it... - -----Original Message----- From: FTabor231@aol.com To: villarrealjuan@hotmail.com ; KLR650@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 2:51 PM Subject: Re: (klr650) Don't sweat it... >In a message dated 3/12/99 8:31:26 AM Central Standard Time, >villarrealjuan@hotmail.com writes: > ><< A person with a modicum of mechanical ability could easily forego the > extension and ride in full confidence >> >Arnie, having been a dealer, I feel that the "hooligan's" view is legit. Take >the cash you would have spent for the exteded warranty and invest it for the 3 >years, that way you have it for repairs and you have a bonus if nothing >happens, and if your bike gets stolen or destroyed (God forbid) then you >havent warranted a goner. Just an opinion about the KLR.Besides, if you use it >in competition or an (abusive) manner, the dealer may not warrant it anyway. >Frank Thanks guys I think you're on the money. I can pull a wrench for most stuff, and any manufacturers defects should rear their ugly heads within the first year anyways. I didn't think about the stolen bike scenario... that would bite big time. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:25:10 -0700 From: Bogdan Swider Subject: (klr650) FW: nklr I'll stick up for Tortuga & his H.D. comment. (For the record, Arne, I've enjoyed your posts.) He was just kidding!! Anyway, you guys can't imagine the pressure on a lone Ukrainian surrounded by Frenchman. I've done my time in Canada; I know. Also his quip kept our "Friday Night Fights" tradition alive. Party on, Bogdan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:32:01 -0800 From: "Arne Larsen" Subject: Re: (klr650) KLR fairing >MN Ron (Aren, stay with us and ignore the little guys. The only dumb question >is the one that isn't asked...) Thanks Ron, I'm not going anywhere. Too much good information here. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:31:07 -0500 From: Michael Kovaliv Subject: (klr650) March/April DSN [NKLR] Gino, just a quick note from Windsor, Canada that I got the DSN today. Thanks. I assume that's your DR on the front? Very nice! Mike Kovaliv (A????) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:34:52 +0000 From: Jeffrey Doyle Subject: Re: (klr650) Fw: KLR breakdowns > just kill the motor, and roll and kick the bike back down into first and use > the starter to get moving again. Thankfully I haven't had to do this on my > bike, but I did use this method to get my Bug home once, so its > theoretically possible on the KLR. > > Jeff Yup, I've ridden bikes with broken clutch cables home and it is tricky. Not only that but the first thing you start looking for over the next few weeks is burning oil from worn rings or leaking oil around the front sprocket. Anyways....once you get used to it you just get bold and command the bike like it's a horse. The Japanese transmissions are generally pretty good and will take some temporary abuse. Some people drag race without using the clutch. I found that if you kick it in first on a roll it's not so abrupt and if you play with the throttle on the upshifts it's not so bad either. The tricky part is feeling your way back down through the gears until you can get that neutral about 100 yds before you need to stop. If your on a hill on a street then you have to get off and walk it to a point where you can get the rolling start again. Bottom line is never get into a situation where you can't anticipate the flow. Forget bumper to bumper traffic. But come to think of it......would it be possible to to take the cable off, pull the broken end through the insulation, reattach the good end to the right engine case hookup, run the cable up through the routing, tie it off on something like a stick or something and hand pull the cable direct? (without sawing a groove in the frame) Of course this would require a little forward lean. Jeff A2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:40:57 +0000 From: Jeffrey Doyle Subject: Re: (klr650) - Driving MR. Michael NUTS Then we could discuss "a united Canada". > > Arne - viva le Quebec! Arne I'm glad for this list and I've had my KLR for over 10 years. I get about 60 messages a day and read them all because of the valued info. Jeff A2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:44:03 -0500 From: Rob Heywood Subject: (klr650) KLR Fork Brace??? Does anyone remember the u-shaped aluminum fork braces you could buy for Kaw moto forks? Supposedly they increased rigidity. Does the new KLR fork need or could it accommodate such a brace? Or this brace an old tech device?? Thanks, Rob Heywood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:43:25 -0500 From: Tim Bootle Subject: Re: (klr650) Questions, Questions, Questions - KLR FTabor231@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/12/99 11:44:17 AM Central Standard Time, > marbach@nucleus.com writes: > > << Most laws of physics become unreliable as you approach infinity so I'd not > even hazard a guess about an infinite rotor >> > Vik, Chris et al, I did flunk Physics, so I can't figure out how a bigger > rotor can stop any quicker without an increase in braking area (pads), isn't > that why the really big boys use 6 piston calipers to increase pressure and > area of contact?I promise to drop this question after this. Frank Ah my friends we just so happen to have an engineer on the list. Caution: Heavy physics follows! (for those other physics freaks out there, yes I know am am making some simplifications.) The type of physics involved here is called dynamics. Let me set up the problem for you. You want to slow down the bike and you've decided to do this by squeezing the front brake lever. The following is what happens and why a bigger rotor lets you stop faster. (and its not just because of the torque arm!) When you squeeze the brake lever pressure is exerted on the brake pads via the caliper. This pressure increases the friction between the pads and the rotor. This frictional force is tangential to the edge of the rotor and in the direction opposite of wheel spin. This force is NOT the same on the larger rotor as it is on the stock rotor! Why? Because the frictional force is a function of the molecular structures of the two materials (brake pad and rotor) AND of the speed at which the two are passing. Outside edge of the bigger rotor goes further than the outside edge of the smaller rotor in the same amount of time (for a given bike speed) and therefore is moving faster to accomplish this feat. (If you're not convinced of this e-mail me) So, we have determined that the frictional force applied by the pads to the bigger rotor are greater than for the stock rotor. Also, as others have mentioned, the "torque arm" is lengthened. What this means is that the distance from the center of the wheel to the center of the frictional force (not the center of the pads for the above reason) has increased. The braking power is a function of the torque produced by this torque arm and frictional force. Torque is the integral of the frictional force over the area of the brake pad, (from outside to inside or inside to outside but not side to side) times the torque arm length. This torque in the angular direction opposite of wheel spin and counters two other main forces. One is the inertia of the wheel assembly (which may or may not be greater than with the stock rotor due to the fact that the new rotor may have less angular inertia than the stock one. (lighter steel, different placement of holes, etc.)) and the other is the tangential force on the wheel at the tire/ground interface. (There are also small frictional forces from bearings, air resistance etc.) This braking torque acts by overcoming the force at the tire/ground interface and changing the direction of the force vector. This new force vector is facing in front of the bike. The inertia of the wheel is simply resistance to change its angular momentum, but the force applied by the tire to the ground overcomes the inertia as well. So, the braking force has overcome the other forces and the bike begins to slow down. How is this really related to braking power? Read on. The integral of this braking force over some distance is the braking energy. And finally, the braking power is the integral of the braking energy over some time during which braking is taking place. So, I hope this cleared it all up for everyone as to how a bigger rotor can provide more braking power . :-) - -Tim Bootle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:50:33 -0800 From: "Arne Larsen" Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: KLR list ettiquette, etc. - -----Original Message----- From: brbo@uniserve.com To: Arne Larsen Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 3:52 PM Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: KLR list ettiquette, etc. > I take it you broke down and bought one !!! >When do we ride ? My buddy from Abby and I are itch'n to get out on Cheam again >this year,,, tons of trails and fun... > >Chow >Brian Soon.... very soon. I've ordered some progressives, and a steel braided (covered) line for the front. I want to throw on a bash plate too before I hit the trails. Let me know when you go and I'll let you know if I'm ready. By the way - the front forks... Are they supposed to be flush with the triple clamp where the top of the fork meets the top of the clamp? Mine are sticking up a good two inches - but the guy who had the bike was around 5'6",and dealership probably set it up for him accordingly (I'm 6'3"). He seemed to think that this was the way it was supposed to be. There are also two wires (with connectors on them) in behind the headlight that are not hooked up to anything. I haven't checked them to see if they're hot or not, but the lights and signals work, so I'm wondering what these wires are for. The answer may be in the owners manual (he didn't have it with him today so I'm waiting on it). Thanks, Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:05:36 -0800 From: "Arne Larsen" Subject: Re: (klr650) FW: nklr - -----Original Message----- From: Bogdan Swider To: 'klr650@lists.xmission.com' Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 4:32 PM Subject: (klr650) FW: nklr >I'll stick up for Tortuga & his H.D. comment. (For the record, Arne, I've >enjoyed your posts.) He was just kidding!! Hey it's always good to have someone in your corner - and while I didn't take what he said as an attempt at humor, if he was just kidding - great, I read him wrong. >Anyway, you guys can't imagine the pressure on a lone Ukrainian surrounded by Frenchman. Oh ya, my Sereant is from Quebec!!! >I've done my time in Canada; I know. Me too - lived here all my life. Arne Beautiful British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:25:54 -0800 (PST) From: KLR650@webtv.net (Conall O'Brien) Subject: (klr650) NKLR Saeng/TA dealer Sport Touring Accessories http://www,dnet.net/~pemble carries the Saeng/Ta product line (stealth edging. nightcutters) , Clearview and other cool brands. I bought some Lexan plastic armour for my headlight glass from them awhile back and was happy. Conall http://www.angelfire.com/co/klr650/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:24:52 EST From: AGSholar@aol.com Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: KLR list ettiquette, etc. << By the way - the front forks... Are they supposed to be flush with the triple clamp where the top of the fork meets the top of the clamp? Mine are sticking up a good two inches - but the guy who had the bike was around 5'6",and dealership probably set it up for him accordingly (I'm 6'3"). He seemed to think that this was the way it was supposed to be.>> Arne, set them flush for your height. <> These wires are used on the European models (for extra driving lights?) but are available for your use if you need them for an accessory. I used one for my headlight modulator. Greg, A2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:30:20 From: Guy Cheney Subject: (klr650) Fork Oil Level Hey All, When I put my Progressives fork springs in I filled the fork oil up to 170mm below the top of the fork (Kawi recommended level). This was after asking around the list and having some tell me that had put that much in and others telling me they had filled them to 140mm below the top of the fork (Progressive Suspension recommended level). I ride exclusively on the street, and still wanted less dive, so I injected 27cc of fork oil into each fork (with a syringe through the Schrader valve hole). By my calculation this was the amount needed to raise the oil level by the desired 30mm. This amount of additional oil did the trick, I won't be "experimenting" with different lengths of preload spacers. The front end is firmer but not harsh and dive has decreased noticeably under moderate and heavy braking. Thanks to Eric Dietiker for putting me on the right track. Guy Cheney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:39:52 -0700 From: "Bruce Hedquist" Subject: Re: (klr650) 12volt compressor? >I mounted a small 12 volt compressor under a side cover with a detachable hose for tire air. This sounds like a great idea. What brand, where did you get it and where did you mount it? Also loved the idea about carrying extra chain, etc, tie wrapped to the skid plate! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:42:51 EST From: FTabor231@aol.com Subject: Re: (klr650) Questions, Questions, Questions - KLR In a message dated 3/12/99 6:48:38 PM Central Standard Time, timbootle@ij.net writes: << So, I hope this cleared it all up for everyone as to how a bigger rotor can provide more braking power . :-) >> Thanks Tim, I forgot about integrals, tangents and vectors, I understand now..........NOT ............but it sounds right. I think just going to slow down. Frank ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #121 ****************************