From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #1239 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Saturday, December 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1239 Re: (klr650) Electrifieng Electrex Update Re: (klr650) Gas mileage Re: (klr650) Gas mileage (carburetor tuning and plug readings) Re: (klr650) Electrifieng Electrex Update Re: (klr650) Gas mileage (carburetor tuning and plug readings) (klr650) Virus alert on the list! (klr650) Re: Electrex (klr650) Re: Gas mileage Re: (klr650) Re: Gas mileage (nklr) (klr650) fork spring replacement ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:38:39 -0500 From: "Eric Jasniewicz" Subject: Re: (klr650) Electrifieng Electrex Update I think Vik has already performed this test in a different manner. He has the IMO computer with voltmeter. He has many electrical devices, and when running them the voltage doesn't drop. This tells me the electrical system can handle the loads of an IMO computer, GPS, vest, grips, dual headlights, maybe some other stuff(?). If someone wants to test if their system can handle the loads they want to put on it, Radio Shack sells voltmeters for around $10 you can quickly wire up to your bike. Turn on all your electrical crap, and go through the rev range watching the voltmeter to see if your bike can handle it. Rizzo offered to have me test the stator on my bike, but I told him my stator works fine, I wasn't about to tear my bike apart to put in a new stator that may or may not be any better than the one I already have! ;) A few months ago someone emailed me, he had installed the Electrex regulator and stator. Thanks to MS Update, my Outlook email files were wiped out, so I don't know who it was. Anyone on list? How about this for a solution... Get the Elextrex regulator, and take your stock stator to a shop and have them rewrap the stator. The stories I hear are that those guys will give you an estimate of the change in capacity. Eric "no problem" J www.angelfire.com/ga/ericjazz KLR page '98 KLR 650 24,000 miles Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:06:59 -0800 From: "billmonahan" Subject: Re: (klr650) Gas mileage Hear Hear Verle. Thank you for simutaniouslyu setting the record straight, and also for thouroughly comfusing me. My early motoryclying carburetor experience is limited to R60's Bings and their associated simplicity. But if it gets me there and back, I am a happy camper. > > Those of us who have lived most of our lives above 5,000 feet > altitude know only too well that before computer controlled > electronic fuel injection, less air at higher altitude meant > over-rich mixture. And those of us old enough to have spent > considerable time taking plug readings so we could fine-tune main > jets, needle positions, and slide cut-always on Amal carburetors > have a special appreciation for the realities of over-rich > mixtures. My KLR650, being a California model, must indeed have > been lean at its intended altitude because it works perfectly > well at my normal riding altitudes of 5,000 feet to 13,000 feet. > I'm glad. I don't relish the act of blasting down some > appropriate road at 80% full honk, simultaneously closing the > throttle, pulling the clutch and hitting the kill-button, > removing the tank so I can take a plug reading, re-installing the > tank for the return trip to my garage, then removing the > carburetor for re-jetting or needle position or whatever, > removing the tank to install a fresh plug for yet another > plug-reading run for verification (I know, I would rig a > temporary fuel bottle before I would actually do this), then > repeating a similar process for midrange adjustments. Thankfully, > the idle mixture plug reading could be taken in the garage but > really wasn't necessary since any shade-tree mechanic with a good > ear could adjust the idle mixture screw. Modern Japanese > carburetors certainly are more versatile and less demanding than > Amals and constant velocity carburetors may work better at > varying altitudes than cable operated slides although cable > operated slides worked quite well when one actually took the time > to do the steps I've outlined above. Of course, none of this > really explains why carburetor equipped motorcycle engines might > get better fuel mileage at higher altitudes; I understand why my > car does. > > Verle Nelson (whimsy@gj.net) > '97 R1100R > KLR650 A13 > Cedaredge, CO USA > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net > To subscribe/unsubscribe send message > to majordomo@lists.xmission.com > leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: > subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe > klr650-digest). > > Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:46:37 -0700 From: "Verle Nelson" Subject: Re: (klr650) Gas mileage (carburetor tuning and plug readings) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "billmonahan" > Hear Hear Verle. Thank you for simutaniously setting the record straight, > and also for thouroughly comfusing me. My early motoryclying carburetor > experience is limited to R60's Bings and their associated simplicity. But > if it gets me there and back, I am a happy camper. > > Sorry! I guess I had a hidden agenda. Since I've been on the list, there has been a lot of jetting talk -- understandable because the KLR probably is too lean at lower altitudes and many KLR650 owners modify their air intake system or their exhaust, all reasons for rejetting. Most of this jetting is done by word-of-mouth recommendations and I-think-it-has-a-flat-spot, seat-of-the-pants analysis. Occasionally, someone mentions a plug reading, but it's usually an after-the-fact, back-in-the-garage kind of reading. No one has mentioned that real plug readings must be taken with fresh plugs used for a period under actual operating conditions then examined after a clean kill -- a tedious, tiresome task. I mentioned Amal carburetors because that's what the British bikes had and that's what I mostly rode. You probably had less trouble with Bings (Did I have one of those on my Zundapp ISDT replica?) I wanted to subtly suggest that plug reading is more than examining the plug in the garage. Actually, this list represents a new way to do carburetor tuning: jetting by consensus. It seems to work rather well which is why I've never mentioned plug readings before. And also, I've personally avoided the whole issue by keeping my exhaust and air intake stock. I realize, though, that I might not do that at sea-level. I do sometimes wish my KLR sounded less like a riding mower, but power? I often ride with a fellow lister whose KLR has a Supertrap, drilled air box, K&N filter, and jetting kit. His KLR runs very good and has no flat spots that I'm aware of. On the other hand, when we do a roll-on at, say, 65MPH to pass a line of traffic, increasing our speed to 85MPH or so, our bikes stay right together. When we trade rides on mountain 4WD trails, I think his KLR might have more low end torque, but I'm not sure. It may just sound better. When I remember the tedious, tiresome task of plug readings, I'm inspired to keep my KLR stock. I guess that makes my current attitude consistent with your last sentence above. When I was younger, though, I always thought I could improve on reality. Verle Nelson (whimsy@gj.net) '97 R1100R KLR650 A13 Cedaredge, CO USA Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 02:21:03 +1100 From: Ted Palmer Subject: Re: (klr650) Electrifieng Electrex Update Eric Jasniewicz wrote: [...] > How about this for a solution... Get the Elextrex regulator, and take your > stock stator to a shop and have them rewrap the stator. If Electrex can supply a match set of stator and regulator then good on them. It's good to see the aftermarket supporting the KLR. > The stories I hear > are that those guys will give you an estimate of the change in capacity. Quite so. The shop that rewound my chewed 600 stator could have wound my stator for more output but I kept mine stock as the charge system has always worked perfectly for my uses. When you look at the exciter coil on the stock stator, it's pretty fat, so there is plenty of room for more coils on the charge system. Rectifying/regulating the increased alternator output would be the trickiest part. Our regulators don't have finned alloy heatsinks for nothing. My KLR650C3 shop manual specs its alternator at 17amp output, so there is a minimum 3A increase you can get just using genuine bits. Mister_T Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 02:48:08 +1100 From: Ted Palmer Subject: Re: (klr650) Gas mileage (carburetor tuning and plug readings) Verle Nelson wrote: [plug chops] A way of life until not very long ago, thankfully rendered a bit redundant with the spread of brake dynos and various gas analysers. > Actually, this list represents a new way to do carburetor tuning: > jetting by consensus. It seems to work rather well which is why > I've never mentioned plug readings before. Heh, not so new but a hell of a lot easier with this internet thing. [...] > I often ride with a fellow lister whose KLR has > a Supertrap, drilled air box, K&N filter, and jetting kit. His > KLR runs very good and has no flat spots that I'm aware of. On > the other hand, when we do a roll-on at, say, 65MPH to pass a > line of traffic, increasing our speed to 85MPH or so, our bikes > stay right together. It does make you wonder where the money goes. Paraphrasing "Jerry Maguire", "SHOW ME THE DYNO GRAPH!!". Mister_T Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 12:00:41 -0600 From: Alan L Henderson Subject: (klr650) Virus alert on the list! Hi, Folks. This is not a hoax! At least one of our members computers have been infected with the W32/NewApt.worm. Once your computer is infected it will send it self to people on your list at random. I recieved a copy from Robert Morgan but did not run the attachment and my virus scanner caught it after I updated the dat files. The virus dat files are just being upgraded for this virus so be sure to log on and update your dat files. This is not a hoax! Check the web site of your virus scanner for information. Alan Henderson Iowa Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:23:22 -0800 From: "Steven van Twuyver" Subject: (klr650) Re: Electrex >Hi Robert, >I don't have a clue on how to test a bike alternator. The traditional way >of course is to test it statically on a bench setup. If they claim twice >the output of the stock unit and they are off by 50%, I would still be >interested. That's still 300watts instead of stock of 200watts. How much >do they sell their replacement unit for the KLR for? And how much work is >it to install a this new stator?? I presume you also would need their >higher output diode/regulator board. >Regards, >Steven van Twuyver > Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:51:10 -0800 From: "Steven van Twuyver" Subject: (klr650) Re: Gas mileage >From: "Verle Nelson" >Subject: Re: (klr650) Gas mileage > >> Well, the bmw does indeed have an air density sensor, which >adjusts for >> altitude, but the KLR doesn't. First, the R1100 BMW series do not have an air density (mass) sensor. They use input from a barometer to make adjustments to the base fuel map. They also have an air temperature sensor in the air filter box and this is used to make further adjustments to the base map. One of the reasons why the R1100 BMWs often surge is that these are coarse adjustments can't be fully compensated with the closed loop O2 sensor whose inputs are not fast enough at lower RPMs. K bikes do use the more expensive air mass sensor and these models typically don't have the surging problems. The CV carb as used on the KLR tends to work across a wide altitude range. If set correctly at sea level, these carbs run reasonably well up to about 5000' without needing rejetting. They may not be spot on but will run acceptable. The reason is that the slide is what actually meters the fuel, not the throttle/butterfly. In fact, the diaphram is a crude form of an air density detector, since lower air density as found at higher altitude the generate less vacuum and this meters out less fuel at altitude. Regards, Steven van Twuyver 98 KLR > Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:33:03 -0700 From: "Verle Nelson" Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: Gas mileage (nklr) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven van Twuyver" To: Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 12:51 PM Subject: (klr650) Re: Gas mileage > > >From: "Verle Nelson" > >Subject: Re: (klr650) Gas mileage > > > >> Well, the bmw does indeed have an air density sensor, which > >adjusts for > >> altitude, but the KLR doesn't. > When you "snip" a reply, please be sure you keep the names and messages straight. You have me listed as the sender followed by someone elses message. Thank you. Verle Nelson (whimsy@gj.net) '97 R1100R KLR650 A13 Cedaredge, CO USA Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 16:39:40 -0600 From: joseph hart Subject: (klr650) fork spring replacement Hello out there, I'm in the process of upgrading to progressive fork springs. I've read the article in the archieves, but still a bit confused!! While I understand it isn't necessary to remove the front wheel, if your only replacing springs, it seems like it would be a good idea if you're changing fork oil, and is this really necessary for me. (a13 2500 miles) Would appreciate any input!! Thanks, Joe Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@softhome.net To subscribe/unsubscribe send message to majordomo@lists.xmission.com leave subject blank. In the body of the message type: subscribe/unsubscribe klr650 (or subscribe/unsubscribe klr650-digest). ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #1239 *****************************