From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #144 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Wednesday, March 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 144 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:07:21 -0700 From: "Kurt Simpson" Subject: (klr650) Reprint of article MCN - Motorcycle Mailing Lists...Part III Motorcycle Mailing Lists: FAQ's & Answers by LT Snyder March, 1999 (Reprinted with permission from Motorcycle Consumer News, www.mcnews.com for subscription info) Part III of IV Without technical experts and active majordomos the listserv wanders and gains no knowledge. Technical experts also encourage "threads" to be maximized. A thread is a discussion topic in a given issue. After opinions and constructive input are exhausted on the topic, the technical experts make a mental note of the outcome and file it away for future use. These experts also steer discussions away from trivial topics and try to ensure that the list matures. This is a difficult feat because of the second type of mailing list participant-the "newbie." A newbie is a new person either new to a particular mailing or to e-mail in general. He or she usually does not read the FAQ beforehand and barges into a list asking the same old questions. The newbies are most destructive to any list because they have no discipline. Questions that shouldn't be asked are asked and messages that should only go to one individual are sent to the entire list. One-half of all newbies are gone in the first month following subscription. Once they realize that their in-box is getting flooded by messages that they can't fathom, they frantically try to sign off or change to digest mode. While newbies constantly frustrate mainstay members of the mailing list community, they are a necessity, for every experienced member of any mailing list was once a newbie. Lists that are mature value newbies and try to convert them into experienced participants. All it takes is one nasty comment to a newbie to turn him or her away from a list. In doing so, a potential asset to the list may have been scared off. The frustrations caused by newbies can be somewhat alleviated by the third group of subscribers-the "entertainers." The entertainers on any list are those that make quips to amuse the other members. At their worst they are boring. At their best, they can stimulate the list to new heights by putting some jocularity to technical discussions. They also build a sense of community on any list by referring to past messages or by scheduling get-togethers for the mailing list, so that members can meet face to face. There is a subset of entertainers that are a bit egotistical. They enjoy seeing their post plastered over the listserv and enjoy the power that familiarity brings. Like most things, with listservs you have to take the bad with the good. Some people you will like and some you will not. The last type of mailing list member makes up what I call the "lurkers." The lurkers are made up of two types of subscribers The first are those that try to milk the listserv for pertinent information without giving any help to others. These people sign on merely to get information on a bike that they desire or have just purchased. The second type of subscriber in this category is one that is looking only to sell or buy things on-line. Some have products that they manufacture and others just want to unload some stock parts laying around in the garage. Both kinds of members offer little to the list, and benefit from the work of the few that share a dedication to the list community. It is sad but true that most mailing list members only read their mail and perhaps send one or two messages to the list during their tenure on the listserv. They are content to read the discussions to get ideas for their bikes or scour messages looking for deals on parts. These types of members add little to the list discussions, and deny the list their rich experiences. Some are shy and others are just afraid to voice what they have to say for fear of being criticized. Whatever the reason, they are an untapped asset on any mailing list. Buying and Selling On-line There is also one huge side-benefit of being part of a mailing list community- parts and accessories for sale. During the course of any given day, most listservs present subscribers with a veritable swapmeet of activity. Exhausts, clip-ons, tires, brake lines, windscreens, seats and helmets change hands in a dizzying array of on-line trading. To enter the fray you need only respond to somebody's ad on the listserv or post your own. There are a few guidelines in doing so. Because most active listserv members check their e-mail once a day, you need to close deals quickly. If you have questions about an advertised part or accessory, ask them of the person who offered it for sale. If you are unsure whether the price is fair, check with a dealer or discount house for the retail and wholesale price of the part. Some supposed deals on listservs are not deals at all. If you are going to haggle on-line, trying to get the part for a cheaper price, be advised that in doing so you may be counting yourself out. Parts and accessories go quickly on-line. Those who are on digest-mode methods of subscription probably will miss out on deals, because they only get digests daily. Once you have agreed upon a price, the standard way of closing the deal is to send a check or money order to the selling party. If you send a check, most people will wait until it clears before sending you the part. Therefore, if you are in a hurry, send a money order or a cashier's check. A word of caution is necessary here if you are concerned about the condition of the part, confirm in your closing e-mail what your perception is of the seller's part. The words "perfect condition" mean different things to different people. If you are selling on-line, be clear and concise with your ad. For instance, if you are selling a seat on the list, don't simply advertise it as "seat for sale- $100." If you do, you get flooded with requests for information such as seat type, condition, year, color, why you are selling it, and preferred method of payment. A better message would have been "Stock seat, red, excellent condition, 1995, bought after-market seat, $100, contact off list." The last part of the message is particularly useful, because it asks you to spare the listserv with inquiries about the seat and instead e-mail the sender directly. If you sell the part, notify the list so that you won't receive any more inquiries. Over the years, I have bought and sold hundreds of parts from listserv contacts, and have never been burned by any unscrupulous people. While luck may be on my side, there is also an unwritten code in buying and selling through a mailing list: Treat each other fairly. A seller or buyer announces his or her wishes with regards to the part and the list springs to action. Nothing wakes people up faster than the opportunity to make a deal. And deals proliferate on mailing lists. You have only to request it, and you will find it. The code in buying and selling on-line is vital in the process because you typically send a check or money order to a person you have never met, hoping that he or she will in turn send you the part as promised. This process is based on integrity. The mailing list disciplines members who abuse the system with ostracism, and offenders are kicked off the list. Tarnishing your reputation on-line will typically follow you around as well, because most riders subscribe to multiple lists. End Part III ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:08:15 -0700 From: "Kurt Simpson" Subject: (klr650) Reprint of article MCN - Motorcycle Mailing Lists...Part IV of IV Motorcycle Mailing Lists: FAQ's & Answers by LT Snyder March, 1999 (Reprinted with permission from Motorcycle Consumer News, www.mcnews.com for subscription info) Concluding Part IV of IV Surviving on Mailing Lists There are some things you can do to maximize your enjoyment on mail lists. First, find out if the mailing list that you want to join has a web site. If it does, peruse the information and read all that it holds. Pay particular attention to any FAQ online and any listing of bike modifications. In general, look for any information that will save you from asking unnecessary questions should you decide to join the mailing list. Also, use internet search engines, such as Infoseek, Hotbot, Yahoo or Metacrawler for information on the bike or type of riding that you want information on. The mailing list should not be a crutch for lazy people seeking information. You will be a more valued subscriber if you are well-informed. If you can't find any web site housing information about the mailing list, ask the list for information once you join. The odds are that even if the list doesn't have a formal web site, someone on the list has a site with the information that you need. Second, once you join the list use your words wisely. Avoid being overly wordy (like my articles) or overly vague. The best messages make it clear what the sender intended or implied. Having to send and resend parts of messages for clarification wastes people's time and effort. If you have a question, it is best to send the question to the specific person, rather than to the whole list. The listserv is not for person-to-person conversations. Always ask the question, "Would most people be interested in what I want to write?" The only exceptions are if you are selling something, asking for help, or have a specific need whereby you are soliciting information from a limited subset of the listserv population. Third, do not send attachments to the list. If you have pictures that you want others to view, find a way to put them on a web site or volunteer to send individuals the attachments directly if they are interested. Some listservs will forward attachments to everyone. Some members do not care to have these attachments show up on their computers. Fourth, if you are unsure if your message would be appropriate, send it to the majordomo of the list and ask him or her whether it is appropriate. Most lists do not accept unsolicited junk mail, such as from vendors. Advertisements or "spam" is considered tacky on mailing lists. There are exceptions if vendors are valued members themselves. Also, do not attack or "flame" a person in the list. Wars of words are usually best discussed between combatants and should not be the forum of the list. If you have a complaint against a particular company, it is acceptable to ask if others have had similar experiences, but you should not attack the company with wars of words. Remember, the e-mail world is a small place and the biker community an even smaller microcosm of it. Your words will be remembered. Finally, foster friendship on any list that you join. Your e-mail personality will follow you through life. In my four years of subscribing, I have been on five different lists. The resulting friendships that I have formed have resulted in a web of contacts. Any question that I have, part that I need or reference I desire is seldom more than an emessage away. I also try to serve as a resource for these same friends. Assisting a fellow rider on-line is very satisfying for the soul. Saving someone time and money is a large part of what motorcycle mailing lists are all about. As bikers, we are a minority on the roads. Just as we should show courtesy on the roads, so too should you show courtesy on-line. ~ RESOURCES Mailing List Roundup http//www.micapeak.com/mailinglistroundup! MSN/Hotmall 408) 222-7000 support@hotmail.com Netscape 800) 411-0707 support@netscape.com Juno 800) JUNO-889 support@juno.com LISTSERV ETIQUETTE DO Determine if you can handle the amount of e-mails that a motorcycle mailing list generates. Look for information on the mailing list (type of bike or type of riding) before you subscribe. Be concise and informative in your e-mails to the listserv. Ask yourself whether your e-mail will interest most people on the list or only a select few. Be courteous and fair with those you interact with on any list. Try to add to the collective experience of any listserv that you join. DON'T Waste people's time with irrelevant e-mails. Use profanity or abusive language on any list. Be unethical in your buying/selling experiences on-line. Merely use mailing lists as a way to get information without giving anything in return. Be vague in what you are trying to say. End of Article ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:10:17 -0500 From: Stuart Heaslet Subject: Re: (klr650) Reno 200...NKLR At 05:38 AM 3/17/99 -0700, Kurt Simpson wrote: >>The Reno 200 is looking very intriguing to me. I'm thinking of >>delaying my Alaska departure to ride it. >I'll do it with you...Vik and I are also signed up for the Kamloops thing, but I know >that you and Stuart will be laughing at us with that one... When is the Kamloops thing? I'm not laughing yet - I haven't met anyone from the list yet and am wondering if all of you really exist. The only hard evidence I've received costs me money - Fred's shipments and Gino's newsletter. Everything else is pure ether and electrons. Northbound I'll be passing through the upper plains between May 15 and 18, then on to Dawson Creek. Should make it to Prudhoe by June 2. Southbound will pass throught the U.S. Northwest by mid August. Will see Helge Pedersen, then go on to Eureka in N. California, then east through Susanville, Reno and Hwy 50. If I feel up to any deep thought, I'll stop by Jakeman's in Milford before going to Fred's in Moab in late August. Fred, I'm a comin', one way or another. Stuart KLR A12 Juno Beach, Florida "Land of the newly wed and nearly dead." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:13:30 -0500 From: Stuart Heaslet Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR Mission Failed At 08:08 AM 3/17/99 -0700, Skip Faulkner wrote: >Well List, I appreciate the help many of you gave me in trying to find my >wife a KLR, but the fates and my wife have conspired against me. This means the title is in her name too? Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:20:40 -0500 From: "Mr. KTM" Subject: (klr650) KTM Owners Web Sites The KTM Owners Website has a new address: http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Cliffs/5604 Please Bookmark for future reference, or if you've never been there, check it out! Mr. KTM '96 RXC620 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:23:06 -0700 From: "Fred Hink" Subject: Re: (klr650) Reno 200...NKLR - -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Heaslet To: Kurt Simpson ; Alex Jomarron ; klr650@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 6:15 AM Subject: Re: (klr650) Reno 200...NKLR >I'm not laughing yet - I haven't met anyone from the list yet and am >wondering if all of you really exist. The only hard evidence I've received >costs me money - Fred's shipments and Gino's newsletter. Everything else >is pure ether and electrons.< > If I feel up to any deep thought, I'll stop >by Jakeman's in Milford before going to Fred's in Moab in late August. >Fred, I'm a comin', one way or another. > >Stuart You are welcome here anytime. Bring lots of money. We are all figments of your imagination. Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:43:02 -0800 From: "Robert Morgan" Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR Mission Failed My wife has not even learned to ride here first bike, the CT90 she bought last week and she has already told me she wants an F650 next. BMW must have some real mojo marketing folks is all I can figure. Morgan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 99 12:47:21 PST From: "Marick Payton" Subject: (klr650) Reno 200 Alex, Kurt, Hope to see you at the Reno 200. Any of you other Bay Area KL? riders going? Marick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:51:53 From: "R. Kaub" Subject: (klr650) OIL When I change the oil (and always the filter) on my '98, I put in 2.5 quarts. Then I start the motor for a minute or so and then turn it off and let it drain down. This brings the oil level about 3/4ths up the sight glass. I then put in a couple more glugs until the oil reaches the top of the glass. This works out to 2.5 liters. In my bike at least, the factory capacity of 2.5 liters coincides with the top of the sight glass. This makes my life easy as I choose to believe the factory knows how much oil the motor should hold. BTW, I use Pennzoil 10w40 or 20w50 car oil, chunks and all. It costs 82 cents a quart at (god forbid) WalMart. I am not a bad person. :-) Thanks Bob Kaub State University of New York PO Box 6000 Binghamton, NY 13902 607-777-2715 ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #144 ****************************