From: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com (kraftwerk Digest) To: kraftwerk-digest@xmission.com Subject: kraftwerk Digest V3 #119 Reply-To: kraftwerk@xmission.com Sender: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com Precedence: kraftwerk Digest Friday, August 8 1997 Volume 03 : Number 119 In this issue: (kw) "Lebendige Menschen" CD (kw) Awful thought about the new CD Re: (kw) "Lebendige Menschen" CD Re:(kw) Klaftwelk (and a good news) Re[2]: (kw) My memories (was : 1973 Paris concert + old TV Re: (kw) My memories : post-scriptum Re: (kw) Poll Re: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD (kw) Mellotron doubts (kw) Canadian list member. (kw) Re : Mellotron doubts Re: (kw) 1997 - Album Re: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD Re: (kw) 1997 - Album Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Re: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD (kw) New KW album in September according to Aftonbladet Re: (kw) New KW album in September according to Aftonbladet (kw) Meeting in Karlsruhe Re: (kw) New KW album in September according to Aftonbladet (kw) Missing Person! Re: (kw) Robots Video Now Avalible Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Re: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts (kw) Poll Re[2]: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD (kw) Faulty address alert!! Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts (kw) Delayed "End of Violence" Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts (kw) Kraftwerk & Cybotron Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts (kw) (sp?). See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the kraftwerk or kraftwerk-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:30:53 +0000 From: "Klaus Zaepke" Subject: (kw) "Lebendige Menschen" CD > The tracks have correct speed! No, the first two tracks are in fact too slow. They were obviously mastered from the BBC broadcast. Also, there are the usual little bootlegger inaccuracies in the credits. "Computerlove" is in fact "Computer World", for example. But it's a nice item nonetheless. Klaus Zaepke # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:01:36 +0100 From: Mike Morgan Subject: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD Hey guys I was just reading an old issue of Future Music with an interview with Ralph in at the time the Mix came out. In it when asked why they left out so many obvious tracks he replied that maybe the would like to do another Mix 2 in the future . So my nightmare thought is... what after waiting 15 yrs for new material ... all we get is another rehash of oldies ( but goodies ) ....!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 16:08:37 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: Re: (kw) "Lebendige Menschen" CD Klaus Zaepke wrote: >No, the first two tracks are in fact too slow. They were obviously=20 >mastered from the BBC broadcast. >Also, there are the usual little bootlegger inaccuracies in the=20 >credits. "Computerlove" is in fact "Computer World", for=20 >example. >But it's a nice item nonetheless. I thought as much! NOBODY seems to have the correct speed (except me and few select others of course!) ciao, - -------------------------------------------- Jules Seifert 'The Voice of Energy' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:16:00 +0900 From: "\"Kaoru CHIDA\" Subject: Re:(kw) Klaftwelk (and a good news) Hi! All, On Thu, 07 Aug 1997, jbv wrote: >Hiroshi wrote : >>I envy you all in Europa. We don't have any KW gigs here... 8-) > >You should move... I wish if I could move...! *sigh* But,I have a happy news to Japanese werkers. In October, Wolfgang Fluer will come to Tokyo for promotion. A Japanese record company "Pop Biz" will bring out "Time Pie"album in October. (I hear it from a Managing Director of this company.) We can probably meet Wolfgang! :) With Love, KaoRu *** Kaoru CHIDA-Fujishima *** *** Greetings from the Far East xxx *** # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 10:02:10 From: "POOLTON, Richard" Subject: Re[2]: (kw) My memories (was : 1973 Paris concert + old TV Do you (or anybody else) remember any details about the 1981 video accompaniment? These videos are not very well documented, and I've never found a detailed description of them... >> I remember the TEE video was very diffent to the current one, black and white footage of the guys on a train, and I'm sure the Neon Lights video was a really arty piece showing the four of them looking up to neon lights in a night sky<< # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 10:03:58 From: "POOLTON, Richard" Subject: Re: (kw) My memories : post-scriptum I also remember that Bartos (or was it Flur ?) still used the electric drum sticks. One of these 2 guys also used another machine which looked like a "table" with sliders on its top side. Moving the sliders seemed to trigger / stop sequences. >> Wolfgang definately did most of the drumming and Karl used the above machine at the Lyceum gig in '81<< # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 10:04:53 From: "POOLTON, Richard" Subject: Re: (kw) Poll Yeah the above was my thinking, let's make it easy, just mail me with: a) your favourite other group b) your favourite single artist Should be interesting. Regards Rich (Fir Orchard) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:45:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Mike Morgan wrote: > Hey guys I was just reading an old issue of Future Music with an interview with Ralph in at the time the Mix came out. > In it when asked why they left out so many obvious tracks he replied that maybe the would like to do another Mix 2 in the future . > So my nightmare thought is... what after waiting 15 yrs for new material ... all we get is another rehash of oldies ( but goodies ) > ....!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I'd love it. Not only would it be better than nothing, but it would be more great examples of KW remixing KW. :) Though new, original stuff would be even better. /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 15:29:31 -0500 From: altrnote@sprynet.com Subject: (kw) Mellotron doubts On Wed, 06 Aug 1997, jbv wrote: >Well, I'm not sure about how a mellotron works, but as for the >sustained [Radioactivity] choir, I always thought it could be some synth >strings through a vocoder using the "sound freeze" function, the carrier >signal being a natural choir, or simply the formants of a simple >"AAAH" vocal sound. I have always thought this too. If they had their "singing typewriter" system, could they not have set the formants to the "ah" shape and then played any melody or chords through that? If it were a Mellotron or the previously mentioned Orchestron optical disk keyboard rather than some proprietary Kraftwerk device wouldn't that choir sound be on more records (rather than through sampling KW)? Just some thoughts. _____ __ ___ ____ _____ | Joe Schepis / \| |/ \/ \/ ___| | Alternote Music Systems / /\ | /\ /\ |\__ \ | altrnote@sprynet.com | \/ | | | | | |___\ | | home.sprynet.com/sprynet/altrnote \__/|__|__| |__| |__|_____/ | "you call that NOISE? that's MUSIC!" # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:38:49 -0400 From: Regor@webtv.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Roger_D=E9ziel?=) Subject: (kw) Canadian list member. On Aug 6 1997, Soleil "Ra" Lapierre wrote: > Being one of few, if not the only > remaining Canadian list member... I am Canadian too, from the province of Quebec. "Ra", which province are you from ? Any other Canadian on the list ? - -- Roger Regor@webtv.net Using WebTV since 01/09/97. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 23:07:25 +0100 From: jbv Subject: (kw) Re : Mellotron doubts I listened to RA this afternoon and I'm 99.99% sure the choir sound is a vocoded synth string. That sound lacks the vocal accuracy of a mellotron choir (because analog vocoding looses the phase information of the modulating signal), and furthermore I think that kind of sound manipulation seems perfectly in sync with what they used to do at the time of RA & TEE. jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:19:19 +0200 (MEST) From: Subject: Re: (kw) 1997 - Album Hi! On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Georg Jajus wrote: > alpezi@zilli.priv.at,Internet writes: > > A friend of mine told me that fact...could be right. Maybe there's also > a 2nd Album, like 'The Mix 2' or so... > BTW: Where did you buy your Tickets for Linz? At OE-3 it ist't > available yet... The Tickets are not available yet. The Posthof Ticket sale will start on 28th of August 14.00 MEST. I dont think that you will get the Tickets at OE-3 even after the 28th... Tschue! > Rendez-vous auf den Champs Elysees > Verlass' Paris am Morgen mit dem TEE > ------------------------------------------- ...whats the TEE Station before Vienna? ... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:55:23 +0200 From: jss@onestone.de Subject: Re: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD > Not only would it be better than nothing That's quite true, but.. > it would be more great examples of KW remixing KW. :) ...what has been great with The Mix ? Actually, they've added a HiHat, removed the noise we know now for more than 20 years, finally managed to save their work into the present (in '91). It's nice to see that they made music for the 90s in the 70s (that's *the* thing on Kraftwerk), but now they should start over and produce music which becomes popular in 2010 ! regards, Joerg-Stefan # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 03:57:01 -0700 From: discofembot@juno.com (Bill C Talley) Subject: Re: (kw) 1997 - Album >>God! What the hell.. >>Where did you hear this? > >Hat mir ein Freund erz=E4hlt...quasi ein Kraftwerk-Spezialist. Aah, >ich >mua=DF jo auf Englisch schreiben! ;-) > >A friend of mine told me that fact...could be right. Maybe there's >also >a 2nd Album, like 'The Mix 2' or so... Perhaps it will be 'Technopop', the first title of the 'Electric Cafe' disc. Or maybe 'Mix II' as is alluded to in 'Man Machine And Music'. Each disc has a very definite theme. Since I STILL have not heard the entire 'new song' yet (ie WHY is every version of the TG concert clipped just short of the 'new song'?!?!?) I can only guess that it might have something to do with a 'world culture' concept. I can hear songs about bio-mechanics and such... Perhaps even human biology. Any ideas? Bill # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 04:06:32 -0700 From: discofembot@juno.com (Bill C Talley) Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts >On Wed, 06 Aug 1997, jbv wrote: >>Well, I'm not sure about how a mellotron works, but as for the >>sustained [Radioactivity] choir, I always thought it could be some >synth >>strings through a vocoder using the "sound freeze" function, the >carrier >>signal being a natural choir, or simply the formants of a simple >>"AAAH" vocal sound. > >I have always thought this too. If they had their "singing >typewriter" system, >could they not have set the formants to the "ah" shape and then played >any >melody or chords through that? > >If it were a Mellotron or the previously mentioned Orchestron optical >disk >keyboard rather than some proprietary Kraftwerk device wouldn't that >choir sound >be on more records (rather than through sampling KW)? Exactly. They sculpted their own choir sound. It doesn't sound too human any more if it were originally from an operetic choral finale. It's waaaay too effected to get it pure enough. Jarre also has sounds quite similar, I'm assuming original, such as the choral pads on 'Ethnicolor', just less effected. Again, Elektric Music had another very similar choral sound for 'T.V.' Perhaps they are all using the same source board? What piece of analog equipment do they all have in common? Bill # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:22:47 +0000 From: "Craig Land" Subject: Re: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD Now what would be really cool is for 'The Mix 2' to be remixes of pre-Autobahn material, but that's never going to happen is it?! I for one would love to hear my favourite KW track of all time, 'Tanzmusic' remixed and re-modelled for 1997. Hey, Rich are you there? All my e:mails to you are bouncing back as undeliverable, even replies directly from your personal mails to me! Here's a bit of useful or useless info for you all, HMV here in the UK is where I purchased my Remake 12 inch's from, here is the bar code number for these 12's which you will able to use to get hold of a copy from HMV; 50000079694420007999. I have heard that HMV will be going into partnership with Virgin on one web site to sell their music catalogue's on-line, I wasn't given any dates though. In fact I will do a search now and see what comes up. Best Regards, Craig. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 13:20:57 +0200 From: Conny Fornbäck Subject: (kw) New KW album in September according to Aftonbladet Yesterdays issue of the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet contains a list of CD's that will be released during the autumn. Under "Releases in September" you can find Kraftwerk. No title provided. Doesn't prove anything really... /Conny Fornbäck # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:52:57 +0200 From: jss@onestone.de Subject: Re: (kw) New KW album in September according to Aftonbladet Fine, so we only have to stay tuned for only another month... Regards, Joerg-Stefan # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:24:52 +0200 From: jss@onestone.de Subject: (kw) Meeting in Karlsruhe Will anyone be at the meeting in Karlsruhe who can trade any of the following items ? * any concert before 1981 * any concert past 1981 * bootlegs of any studio works that arn't available anymore regards, Joerg-Stefan # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 13:00:29 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: Re: (kw) New KW album in September according to Aftonbladet jss@onestone.de wrote: >Fine, so we only have to stay tuned for only another month... Hmmmmm....... I heard that one before........ ciao, - -------------------------------------------- Jules Seifert 'The Voice of Energy' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 13:09:40 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: (kw) Missing Person! Hi werkians! Has anyone heard from Statik - aka Johann Weterings, in the past month?=20 I've been trying to locate him, but he's not replying to my mail. The mail isn't bouncing so I only assume that he is away, or is not answering them.=20 He has something very special of mine, and I want it back! Please, anyone who has heard from him, let me know.... ciao, - -------------------------------------------- Jules Seifert 'The Voice of Energy' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:16:35 +0200 From: jss@onestone.de Subject: Re: (kw) Robots Video Now Avalible > The address should be: http://www.dragonfire.net/~petenet Is it anywhere available via ftp ? regards, jss # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:32:40 -0400 (EDT) From: ManMachn2@aol.com Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts I am 99.9% sure that a vocoder was *not* used to make that choir sound. Vocoders simply do not sound like that.....if that were a vocoder and a string synth - you would hear the sawtooth (or whatever) waveform - like in a lot of John Foxx's vocoded choral sounds and Wendy Carols.....they sound vocoded. The RA choir sound is in fact very similar to a mellotron choir (very clear almost as if it came from tape with no hint of any waveform being vocoded...) and could very easily be mistaken for mellotron...although I am now 99% sure that is was an Orchestron which sounded very similar to the mellotron. KW says they used an "optical disc organ" at this time period....i don't think we would have heard the same sound on other records a) because they probably modified the sound with eq's and filters b) because only 1000 were made. PS - the "talking typewriter" thing was used in the 80's..... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 23:58:55 +1000 From: Adam Read Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts ManMachn2@aol.com wrote: > The RA choir sound is in fact very similar to a mellotron choir > (very clear almost as if it came from tape with no hint of any > waveform being > vocoded...) and could very easily be mistaken for mellotron...although > I am > now 99% sure that is was an Orchestron which sounded very similar to > the > mellotron. http://www.mellotron.com/mellolis.htm lists a couple of Kraftwerk titles ~ Adam # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:20:40 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD Hey you crazy fans ! Yesterday evening, as I was doing some cleaning in the house (I do that once a year), I came across an interview of Ralf made by David Korn for the french edition of Keyboards mag. in jan 92. Here are some excerpts (which seem to answer a few questions posted on this list during the past few months): Q: this new album THE MIX is a "training" for the new studio ? A: (...) Yes, Everything is now in sync with the pictures, including the robots. It's a global concept. Q: Is everything mixed live ? A: Yes, there is no multitrack tape anymore. Everything is MIDI with various computers : Mac, PCs with SEquencer Plus, Atari ST with Cubase... I also do lots of things live, for the organic / random acpect of the thing. Q: Some people complain about the lack of inspiration of cover albums... A: It's a document. Like a concert, it's a live record. An exemple of our work from the past few years. We put together this sytem of "computer music live", it works, we are touring with it, and the album comes along with it. Next year, we'll release an album of new songs. (!!!!!!) jbv P.S. David, are you on this list ? Sorry for the crude translation... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:20:58 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Bill C Talley wrote: > > > Exactly. They sculpted their own choir sound. It doesn't sound too > human any more if it were originally from an operetic choral finale. > It's waaaay too effected to get it pure enough. Jarre also has sounds > quite similar, I'm assuming original, such as the choral pads on > 'Ethnicolor', just less effected. Again, Elektric Music had another very > similar choral sound for 'T.V.' Perhaps they are all using the same > source board? What piece of analog equipment do they all have in common? > > Bill > I just listened to the song once again, and if you pay attention (especially at the end, when all the rythmic stuff fades away), you'll notice that it's not a single choir sound, but actually the addition of two (or even three) different vocal sounds : 1) a bass sound that goes "Aaaaaaah" in a very static way and which is definetly a vocoded sound 2) some eerie female vocals, little bit melodic at times, for which it's hard to tell cause it sounds a bit like some samples we could hear in the 80s. However, it's not difficult to sculpt such female choir voices with analog gear (see Tomita) cause it's closed to pure sinewave 3) something in between the two above mentioned sounds, that sounds like a men choir, and which I'm almost sure it's vocoded synth strings (by vocoded I mean : through a bank of fixed formant filters). >What piece of analog equipment do they all have in common? Actually, when Bartos left KW to start EM, he was too broke to afford new gear, so he bought most of the stuff that had been sleeping in the KK cellar for years, and R&F paid the mix sessions of THE MIX with that money. ;-) jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 09:32:21 From: "POOLTON, Richard" Subject: (kw) Poll Two replies so far, come on you lot you can do better than that! Let me know your favourite group, other than KW, and your favourite solo artist. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 12:58:06 From: "POOLTON, Richard" Subject: Re[2]: (kw) Awful thought about the new CD Sealand Wrote: I for one would love to hear my favourite KW track of all time, 'Tanzmusic' remixed and re-modelled for 1997. >> Would they keep in the whooping and clapping though! Or better still Airwaves, I just love that track!!<< # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 12:58:33 From: "POOLTON, Richard" Subject: (kw) Faulty address alert!! Those wishing to mail me re the favourite group poll should reply to: richard.poolton@dmgexhib.co.uk Cheers all Rich # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:00:46 -0400 (EDT) From: ManMachn2@aol.com Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts In a message dated 97-08-08 10:30:39 EDT, you write: << 1) a bass sound that goes "Aaaaaaah" in a very static way and which is definetly a vocoded sound 2) some eerie female vocals, little bit melodic at times, for which it's hard to tell cause it sounds a bit like some samples we could hear in the 80s. However, it's not difficult to sculpt such female choir voices with analog gear (see Tomita) cause it's closed to pure sinewave 3) something in between the two above mentioned sounds, that sounds like a men choir, and which I'm almost sure it's vocoded synth strings (by vocoded I mean : through a bank of fixed formant filters). >> sorry..i completely disagree with this.....I am almost certain that it is an orchestron. Tomita used a mellotron for his voices on albums such as "Snowflakes are Dancing" etc....pure sine waves sound nothing like voices - vocal sounds are very very complex and sine waves are obviously not.....I will stick by my orchestron belief because I also think it was used for the strings on "Radioland" and TEE....which don't sound like a string synth OR a mellotron at all. I'm still almost certain that no vocoder was used for these sounds....listen to Wendy Carlos's beethoven choral stuff - THAT sounds like a vocoder. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 19:59:27 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts >pure sine waves sound nothing like voices - vocal sounds are >very very complex and sine waves are obviously not I know how complex vocal sounds are. I only wrote that eerie female vocals are closed to sinewaves (look at the waveshapes of some samples) and therefore could be easily reproduced by analog synthesis. I think that many of this list secretly hope that choir sound is a sculpted sound, and not a preset from a Mellotron or anything like that. But according to another recent posting, the Mellotron Web page lists RA & TEE as albums where a mellotron is used (the vocal harmonies in Showroom dummies for TEE I guess). If it were true, it would be quite disapointing... jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:20:42 +0000 From: "Klaus Zaepke" Subject: (kw) Delayed "End of Violence" The premiere of Wim Wenders' new movie "The End of Violence", which apparently features a new piece of Kraftwerk music in the soundtrack, has been put back until November 27th, in Germany at least. Klaus Zaepke # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:40:23 -0400 (EDT) From: ManMachn2@aol.com Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Why would you be dissapointed to know that KW used presets? They did it on Electric Cafe with a DX-7... also - listen to TEE and ManMachine....the sounds they came up with are not exactly "weird.." c'mon - most of the stuff is extremely simplistic pulsewidth modulated sounds and/or simple sync tones.....and i think it's deliberate. The Vako Orchestron sounds very similar to a mellotron and if it has the sound they want - I think they'd use it...not being too worried about "did we make it ourselves??" - --especially in 1975 when virtually no one was making pop music that sounded like them at all - the Orchestron and Mellotron were innovative instruments back then....I think it is totally up KW's alley to use an instrument that utilized glass discs to read photoelectric information to create sounds.....exceedingly innovative - years before laserdiscs and CDs came out.......................... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 22:53:17 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts ManMachn2@aol.com wrote: > > Why would you be dissapointed to know that KW used presets? They did it on > Electric Cafe with a DX-7... > also - listen to TEE and ManMachine....the sounds they came up with are not > exactly "weird.." c'mon - most of the stuff is extremely simplistic > pulsewidth modulated sounds and/or simple sync tones.....and i think it's > deliberate. > The Vako Orchestron sounds very similar to a mellotron and if it has the > sound they want - I think they'd use it...not being too worried about "did we > make it ourselves??" > --especially in 1975 when virtually no one was making pop music that sounded > like them at all - the Orchestron and Mellotron were innovative instruments > back then....I think it is totally up KW's alley to use an instrument that > utilized glass discs to read photoelectric information to create > sounds.....exceedingly innovative - years before laserdiscs and CDs came > out.......................... > Yes, that makes sense. But I think my point of view makes sense too. Actually, the problem is always the same : each single topic finally covers every possible topic about them. I mean : this discussion started as the instrument used to play one melodic part in one song, and soon after we are discussing their attitude towards presets, technology, etc. You know, I'm not disapointed because they used a mellotron instead of spending 200 hours in the studio sculpting a single choir sound. But I don't really understand why people who certainly spent much time and efforts in designing synthetic singing solo voices, didn't use that knowledge on choir sounds as well. May be the word "preset" doesn't exactly fit for the mellotron. And I don't think they should always have their own unique equipment which must be 20 years ahead of everything. I'm not that kind of crazy fan. Simply, in the same interview I mentioned in another recent posting, Ralf says that in the 70s they had a special vocoder build for them by Sennheiser, and another one by Siemens. What for ? To answer the phone ? Bussy says in his book that there was no phone in the studio... And at that time (late 70s & early 80s) I remember having a lot of fun "sculpting" choir sounds with a home-made vocoder, and also digitizing waveforms of single wovel sounds into a ROM driven by a VCO. That was, IMHO, technology much simpler than a mellotron or a Vako Orchestron, but also much more exciting, because one could have more control on the spectrum of the sounds... For God sake, why didn't they call me as a consultant back then ! Well, we could keep on discussing like that for weeks. After all, as long as the music is good, who cares ? jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:42:42 -0400 From: muziknut2@juno.com (Adam Schefflan) Subject: (kw) Kraftwerk & Cybotron I have the track "Clear," and I must tell you that in those days they didn't sample anything because they didn't have the equipment and the technology wasn't that readily available yet. Instead, they replayed the lifted stuff on their own gear as close to the original as possible. Peace. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:57:05 -0400 (EDT) From: ManMachn2@aol.com Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts Vocoders - why did they have them? ummm - R & F, Autobahn, Radioactivity, TEE, ManMachine, Computer World, etc etc etc spring to mind. Didn't they used a vocoder on "The Robots" unless Ralf really does sound like that..... As for the synthetic voices....that came 10 years after RA - they used a device that was made for blind people to read books to them....I'm sure they modified it a bit so it would be more useful musically - or they could've just dumped it into the Synclavier. Well - yes you can certainly sculpt choir sounds on a vocoder - nice synthetic ones that can sound very majestic. i do it too many times....and just listen to early Wendy Carlos...that still sounds nothing like the voices on RA, which are very similar to a mellotron (ie orchestron). # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: 08 Aug 97 19:47:58 +0000 From: Brendan Heading Subject: Re: (kw) Mellotron doubts ManMachn2 was saying: > 3) something in between the two above mentioned sounds, that > sounds like a men choir, and which I'm almost sure it's vocoded > synth strings (by vocoded I mean : through a bank of fixed formant > filters). >> >sorry..i completely disagree with this.....I am almost certain that it is an >orchestron. >Tomita used a mellotron for his voices on albums such as "Snowflakes are >Dancing" etc.... Correct. That's what I thought Kraftwerk used as well, for their choir sounds. I explained once a few months back how Kraftwerk might get a sustained choir sounds - by layering the Mellotron choir sound on two tracks. Record the first 8 seconds on track 1. Then wind the tape back and play a second Mellotron choir sound on track two, a little further along the tape but before the end of the first sound. Go back to track one and play a third sound. If the two tracks are then played simultaneously, the effect is of a continous sound - clever use of the faders ensures that the listener cannot detect the changeover point. If anyone out there has concert videos, can a Mellotron be seen ? >pure sine waves sound nothing like voices A sine wave with vibrato on it sounds like a soprano (sp?). Kraftwerk used such a sound on "Airwaves" on Radioactivity. > - vocal sounds are >very very complex and sine waves are obviously not..... Speech vocal sounds are very complex. A sine wave using vibrato and played with plenty of portamento sounds similar to a soprano - although not exactly the same. >I will stick by my >orchestron belief because I also think it was used for the strings on >"Radioland" and TEE.... I'll agree to disagree there. I'll stake my wig it's a Mellotron. >which don't sound like a string synth OR a mellotron at all. TEE, especially, has that crackly, compressed Mellotron sound that I have come to know VERY well. Check out Jarre's Oxygene Part 7, in the middle. > I'm still almost certain that no vocoder was used for these >sounds.... Kraftwerk's vocoder work was very obvious - the speech parts that are well known. I don't think they experimented with it any further. eg - the lyrics on "The Robots". >listen to Wendy Carlos's beethoven choral stuff - THAT sounds like >a vocoder. Yes, that is the first use ever of vocoders in electronic music. That was a 10-band vocoder assembled out of standard Moog modules. - -- /=======================================================================\ |Brendan Heading (brendan@heading.demon.co.uk) - Webpage online soon | | Influence and inspiration from : | | Jarre Vangelis Tomita Carlos Erasure Pinhas TangerineDream | |Alliance Party of Northern Ireland (www.unite.co.uk/customers/Alliance)| \=======================================================================/ Don't worry about temptation--as you grow older, it starts avoiding you. - -- Old Farmer's Almanac # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:20:40 -0400 From: Regor@webtv.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Roger_D=E9ziel?=) Subject: (kw) (sp?). On Aug 8 1997 an e-mail on the list said: > A sine wave with vibrato on it > sounds like a soprano (sp?). KW > used such a sound on "Airwaves"... I have seen that "(sp?)" in several messages on the list, but I still don't know what it means. Would somebody please tell me what "(sp?)" stands for and when it is appropriate to use it. PLEASE, I will sleep better if I know what it means ! Thanks. - -- Roger Regor@webtv.net Using WebTV since 01/09/97. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk Digest V3 #119 ******************************* To subscribe to kraftwerk Digest, send the command: subscribe kraftwerk-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". 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