From: "Barney B." Subject: (utah-astronomy) Renewal form Date: 02 Aug 2001 11:03:10 -0600 What is the address for the on-line SLAC membership renewal form? It's the one you print out and mail in? TIA Barney Bettilyon - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barney B." Subject: (utah-astronomy) Never Mind Date: 02 Aug 2001 13:59:43 -0600 Found it! BB - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Renewal form Date: 02 Aug 2001 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT) --- "Barney B." wrote: > What is the address for the on-line SLAC membership > renewal form? SLAC? Salt Lake Acting Company? (Sorry, I couldn't resist ;) C. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barney B." Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Renewal form Date: 02 Aug 2001 15:46:59 -0600 oops! I guess that the fact that you're such a character threw me off. :-) BB ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 3:08 PM > > --- "Barney B." wrote: > > What is the address for the on-line SLAC membership > > renewal form? > > SLAC? Salt Lake Acting Company? > > (Sorry, I couldn't resist ;) > > C. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) An Olympic proposal Date: 03 Aug 2001 10:05:39 -0700 (PDT) What do you think of an observational "marathon", to coincide with the winter olympics? My idea is a multi-club event, where teams compete by observing as many objects as possible during the games. Forget Messier, I propose the entire NGC and IC, as many as possible. Maybe even asteroids too, for those who don't get excited over the faint fuzzies. Might need a rule like confirmation by a second observer. Honor system, please. We could even the odds by establishing aperture categories, or assigning handicaps to the larger scopes. Challenges include the weather (February and March can be brutal around here). I'll look around and see what I have that would constitute a suitable prize; maybe a book signed by the author from my collection, or a piece of hardware of some kind. Maybe first, second, and third places, to parallel gold, silver, and bronze in the athletic games. We could elect judges from the members of this list, which includes people from all the local clubs, to avoid any charges of favoritism. Because the event would run for a couple of weeks, and teams would work independantly, there is no burden on any club or committee members to be present at any given time, except for the awards ceremony. I'd be willing to write it up for S & T; a chance for greater glory for the winning team if my editor decided to print it. Please, I'd like to know all your thoughts about this, and any related suggestions. Thanks! Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Tenney Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) An Olympic proposal Date: 03 Aug 2001 12:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Chuck, Sounds interesting, but what do you do about guys like me (and Deloy Pierce, etc.) who belong to more than one club? Rich --- Chuck Hards wrote: > What do you think of an observational "marathon", to > coincide with the winter olympics? My idea is a > multi-club event, where teams compete by observing > as > many objects as possible during the games. Forget > Messier, I propose the entire NGC and IC, as many as > possible. Maybe even asteroids too, for those who > don't get excited over the faint fuzzies. Might > need > a rule like confirmation by a second observer. > Honor > system, please. We could even the odds by > establishing aperture categories, or assigning > handicaps to the larger scopes. Challenges include > the weather (February and March can be brutal around > here). I'll look around and see what I have that > would constitute a suitable prize; maybe a book > signed > by the author from my collection, or a piece of > hardware of some kind. Maybe first, second, and > third > places, to parallel gold, silver, and bronze in the > athletic games. We could elect judges from the > members of this list, which includes people from all > the local clubs, to avoid any charges of favoritism. > > Because the event would run for a couple of weeks, > and > teams would work independantly, there is no burden > on > any club or committee members to be present at any > given time, except for the awards ceremony. > > I'd be willing to write it up for S & T; a chance > for > greater glory for the winning team if my editor > decided to print it. > > Please, I'd like to know all your thoughts about > this, > and any related suggestions. > > Thanks! > > Chuck > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. > > > ________________ > Email Forwarding Service Brought To You By: > http://www.bn3.com. > We can let you become anybody@anyplace.com. FREE, In > 5 minutes! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DunnDave@aol.com Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) An Olympic proposal Date: 05 Aug 2001 18:07:12 EDT It sounds like fun to me. - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) An Olympic proposal Date: 06 Aug 2001 07:27:02 -0700 (PDT) I see everyone entering as individuals, though perhaps club totals could be tallied. C. --- Richard Tenney wrote: > Chuck, > > Sounds interesting, but what do you do about guys > like > me (and Deloy Pierce, etc.) who belong to more than > one club? > > Rich > > --- Chuck Hards wrote: > > What do you think of an observational "marathon", > to > > coincide with the winter olympics? My idea is a > > multi-club event, where teams compete by observing > > as > > many objects as possible during the games. Forget > > Messier, I propose the entire NGC and IC, as many > as > > possible. Maybe even asteroids too, for those who > > don't get excited over the faint fuzzies. Might > > need > > a rule like confirmation by a second observer. > > Honor > > system, please. We could even the odds by > > establishing aperture categories, or assigning > > handicaps to the larger scopes. Challenges > include > > the weather (February and March can be brutal > around > > here). I'll look around and see what I have that > > would constitute a suitable prize; maybe a book > > signed > > by the author from my collection, or a piece of > > hardware of some kind. Maybe first, second, and > > third > > places, to parallel gold, silver, and bronze in > the > > athletic games. We could elect judges from the > > members of this list, which includes people from > all > > the local clubs, to avoid any charges of > favoritism. > > > > Because the event would run for a couple of weeks, > > and > > teams would work independantly, there is no burden > > on > > any club or committee members to be present at any > > given time, except for the awards ceremony. > > > > I'd be willing to write it up for S & T; a chance > > for > > greater glory for the winning team if my editor > > decided to print it. > > > > Please, I'd like to know all your thoughts about > > this, > > and any related suggestions. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Chuck > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > - > > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > > the message. > > > > > > ________________ > > Email Forwarding Service Brought To You By: > > http://www.bn3.com. > > We can let you become anybody@anyplace.com. FREE, > In > > 5 minutes! > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cynthia Blue Subject: (utah-astronomy) Help Wanted Date: 09 Aug 2001 15:16:56 -0600 Members of the list... I'll be going out of town a couple of times this summer, for a week in September and various other little trips. I was wondering if there would be any volunteers to help me out with list maintenance while I'm gone. Just in case there are any problems with multi spam messages and such which might bog down the list. Send me an email directly if you're interested. I'll be out of town Friday and Saturday tho so I wont be able to reply before then. Thanks! Cynthia -- http://www.xmission.com/~lucyblue http://www.ilsikhaucil.com http://www.utahdogs.com ICQ#10306498 - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DunnDave@aol.com Subject: (utah-astronomy) Fwd: [astro-officers] Good lunar occultations next mornings; Calif. grazes Date: 13 Aug 2001 09:49:50 EDT ------_Part_3b77dafe-0260-4009-010203040506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This email talks of a graze in Provo. ------_Part_3b77dafe-0260-4009-010203040506 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINZC44-0813021145; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 02:11:44 -0400 Received: from n23.groups.yahoo.com (n23.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.73]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (v79.20) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINZC52-0813021054; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 02:10:54 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-1472078-2449-997683048-DunnDave=aol.com@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.54] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Aug 2001 06:10:48 -0000 X-Sender: EFLASPO@aol.com X-Apparently-To: astro-officers@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 13 Aug 2001 06:10:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 88714 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 06:10:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2001 06:10:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d07.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.39) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 06:10:43 -0000 Received: from EFLASPO@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id r.a1.19a7d2d3 (4585); Mon, 13 Aug 2001 02:10:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: neral@yahoogroups.com, nationalpublicobservatory@yahoogroups.com, astro-officers@yahoogroups.com, acatw@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list astro-officers@yahoogroups.com; contact astro-officers-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list astro-officers@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: astro-officers@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subj: Good lunar occultations next mornings; Calif. grazes Wherever you are, the thin waning crescent Moon will be passing through the northern Milky Way in Taurus and Gemini the next few mornings, providing good opportunities to time and record many lunar occultation reappearances. Check your lunar occultation predictions and grazing occultation predictions for events that you might observe from home, or good grazes that might not be too far from home. Two good grazes of red giant stars in central California, Nevada, Utah, and s.e. Idaho are described briefly below and are shown on Riedel's and my map on p. 118 of the Jan. issue of Sky and Telescope (also at http://www.skypub.com ). In addition, a daylight occultation of Jupiter occurs across most of North America, with a northern-limit partial occultation path passing just n. of Winnipeg (an expedition is planned) and the Great Lakes region, where lower altitude in the daytime sky will make the event harder to see. 1. Grazes in the West the morning of August 15. A good dark-limb graze of 6.5-mag. BU Geminorum = ZC 942 = 6 Geminorum will occur at about 11:32 U.T. (4:32 am PDT) from the southern suburbs of San Jose, over Mt. Hamilton, and near or over Stockton, Calif.; the path then passes a short distance s. of Carson City, Nev., and over southeastern Idaho at 11:43 UT. The Moon will be only 19% sunlit and the graze will occur 13 deg. from the north cusp, making it easy to observe with most any small telescope. The ACLPPP profile should be rather accurate since the latitude libration is small; there will not be the problems that we had with the 85 Ceti graze last month. Since it's a northern-limit graze, observers south of the path, especially in southern California, will have a good total occultation reappearance of the star. An hour later, a bright-limb graze of 3.5-mag. eta Gem. = ZC 946 will occur farther south, passing 13 miles south of Atascadero and 8 miles north of Tulare, Calif. at about 12:20 UT = 5:20 am PDT, and near Provo, Utah at about 12:37 UT (these are central graze times; the graze itself could last a few minutes). The star is bright and red enough that the bright-limb graze should not be too difficult. Since it's a southern limit, observers in northern California and the Pacific Northwest (not too far from the coast) will have a spectacular dark side total occultation reappearance. If you plan an expedition for one of these good events, please let either me or the IOTA egroup list know so that others might be able to join you to give better coverage of the lunar profile. 2. Lunar occultation of Jupiter the afternoon of Aug. 15. Predictions for this daylight occultation for hundreds of North American cities are on the IOTA Web site at http://www.lunar-occultations.com/iota. A partial occultation will be visible near the northern limit that passes a little n. of Winnipeg at 20:50 UT, then passes over upper Michigan, northern lower Michigan, and just s.w. of Hamilton, Ont. The path also crosses westernmost N.Y., northeastern Pennsylvania, and northern New Jersey, but low altitude will make observation quite difficult there. 3. Check Steve Preston's Web site for occultations by asteroids (with links to it from the main IOTA site above); more about them will be distributed later. David Dunham, IOTA, 2001 Aug. 13 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: astro-officers@eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: astro-officers-unsubscribe@eGroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------_Part_3b77dafe-0260-4009-010203040506-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Tenney Subject: (utah-astronomy) Fwd: Utah trip Date: 19 Aug 2001 15:53:03 -0700 (PDT) --0-867882458-998261583=:93572 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Any of you telescope owners out there able to help this gentleman out on any of those dates? Rich Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-867882458-998261583=:93572 Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Apparently-To: retenney@yahoo.com via web12901.mail.yahoo.com; 19 Aug 2001 07:42:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Track: 1: 40 Received: from 209.10.227.228 (HELO s2.bn3.com) (209.10.227.228) by mta512.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 07:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 19360 invoked by uid 508); 19 Aug 2001 14:42:57 -0000 Delivered-To: m13840-rtenney@uvaa.org Received: (qmail 19343 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 14:42:57 -0000 Received: from smtp2.libero.it (193.70.192.52) by 209.10.227.228 with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 14:42:57 -0000 Received: from fafalchi (151.24.8.215) by smtp2.libero.it (5.5.031) id 3B3A1872009AAD96 for rtenney@uvaa.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:42:26 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c128bd$7489c340$d7081897@fafalchi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Length: 838 Hi, I'm an Italian amateur astronomer. I'm planning to see Utah national parks (Zion, Brice, Canyonlands, Arches and so on) from September 5 to sept 11. Do you think there is some amateur astronomer with a big dob around the parks to show me some deep sky objects from a dark sky? Thank you in advance, Fabio Falchi FABIO FALCHI Istituto di Scienza e Tecnologia dell'Inquinamento Luminoso - ISTIL Light Pollution Science and Technology Institute e-mail: falchi@lightpollution.it web: http://www.lightpollution.it/dmsp/ http://www.istil.it ________________ Email Forwarding Service Brought To You By: http://www.bn3.com. We can let you become anybody@anyplace.com. FREE, In 5 minutes! --0-867882458-998261583=:93572-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Big tube Date: 20 Aug 2001 12:37:14 -0700 (PDT) The main tube for the 37" SPOC-2 telescope is now in my shop for completion. I like to think that even John Dobson's heart would skip a beat to see a sonotube this big! 43" OD, and 12 feet long! Internal bracing (already fabricated)will be added to lend stiffness to spider and cell attachment areas. The entire tube interior will be fiberglassed, the exterior will be at least gelcoated and perhaps painted if needed. I may be calling for volunteers soon, most work will be done on weekends. Volunteers must be physically fit, have no respiratory or repetitive-motion injuries. Dust masks will be provided if and when needed. Sorry, but limitations on the project by my superiors do not allow for "interested non-participants". You'll have to wait and see the fotos on the website as they become available if you fall into this category. With the building going up soon, and the roof not far behind, we may be able to move this beast directly from my shop when done, to the observatory building itself, with no intermediate storage issues. Bruce can best answer schedule and milestone questions. Ad Astra! Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Tenney Subject: (utah-astronomy) Fwd: [obsessionusers] The Ultimate Observing Report! Date: 20 Aug 2001 17:11:34 -0700 (PDT) --0-599875434-998352694=:26709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Thought this was kinda fun to read (think we can all imagine what the thrill would be like)... Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-599875434-998352694=:26709 Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Apparently-To: retenney@yahoo.com via web12905.mail.yahoo.com; 20 Aug 2001 15:22:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Track: 1: 40 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (64.12.136.164) by mta437.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2001 15:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from UTAHDEB@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.131.50f06f (16487) for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <131.50f06f.28b2e795@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_131.50f06f.28b2e795_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 Content-Length: 15575 --part1_131.50f06f.28b2e795_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_131.50f06f.28b2e795_alt_boundary" --part1_131.50f06f.28b2e795_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rich, Here's the report from Vance. --part1_131.50f06f.28b2e795_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rich,
Here's the report from Vance. --part1_131.50f06f.28b2e795_alt_boundary-- --part1_131.50f06f.28b2e795_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (rly-ye03.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.200]) by air-ye04.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINYE49-0820180436; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:04:36 -0400 Received: from n14.groups.yahoo.com (n14.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.64]) by rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYE33-0820180357; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:03:57 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-1937295-4274-998344965-utahdeb=aol.com@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2001 22:02:45 -0000 X-Sender: vance.petriew@saskeds.com X-Apparently-To: obsessionusers@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 20 Aug 2001 22:02:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 34532 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2001 22:01:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2001 22:01:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Aug 2001 22:01:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: vance.petriew@saskeds.com Received: from [10.1.2.56] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2001 22:01:24 -0000 Message-ID: <9ls1bi+o5d4@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 142.165.18.226 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list obsessionusers@yahoogroups.com; contact obsessionusers-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list obsessionusers@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: obsessionusers@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Obsessed, I'm afraid my mind isn't on work today since this past weekend I did something that most amateur astronomer's only dream of. I discovered a new comet C/2001 Q2 at 4:00 AM Saturday morning while most people were sleeping. The comet will be named after me when the orbit is determined. In the astronomy community, it is like winning the lottery! Only one person in the whole world discovered a comet last year the same way I did. It's pretty cool to have a space rock named after me and I'm very excited! For more information on "Comet Petriew" (Pe-troo' (short 'e' as in 'pebble')) you can visit the following web sites: http://www.skypub.com/news/news.shtml#CometPetriew (I think the web site is still down but I did see the article this morning) Also, here is the comet hunter site which shows how rare these discoveries are with all the automated telescopes around: http://www.comethunter.de/ http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/Headlines.html I stumbled across the comet by accident and almost passed by it since I was looking for M1 (and started at the wrong star). When I found it, I went looking at my star charts to see if I could tell which galaxy I was possibly looking at. Luckily, Richard Huziak of the RASC - Saskatoon Centre, happened to walk over for the first time that night. I told him I was trying to find out what it was and he said that it's no galaxy. He knew there were none in that area of the sky and said it was a comet. That led us on a search for all the comet's we could find ephemeredes for and none matched. We suspected it could be Wild 4 but that was 4 degrees away. He also knew about the section in the RASC Observer's Handbook telling how to report a find so around 6:00 AM CST, we put the call into Dan Green. Without Richard's help, this may have been a LINEAR discovery. I'm actually amazed that no one has seen it yet, especially LINEAR and NEAT! I was also concerned that someone else could co-discover it since there are so many star parties going on this weekend in the northern hemisphere. But nevertheless, I'm ecstatic! Yahoo! Here's the telegram: Circular No. 7686 Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams INTERNATIONAL ASTRONOMICAL UNION Mailstop 18, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A. IAUSUBS@CFA.HARVARD.EDU or FAX 617-495-7231 (subscriptions) CBAT@CFA.HARVARD.EDU (science) URL http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/cbat.html ISSN 0081-0304 Phone 617-495-7440/7244/7444 (for emergency use only) COMET 2001 Q2 Vance Avery Petriew, Regina, SK, reports his visual discovery of a comet during a star party at Cypress Hills, Saskatchewan, as shown below. The object's presence was also confirmed visually by R. Huziak (0.25-m reflector) and P. Campbell (0.32-m reflector) at Cypress Hills. The observations by A. Hale were made following a request by the Central Bureau. 2001 UT R.A. (2000) Decl. m1 Observer Aug. 18.42 5 31.9 +28 08 11.0 Petriew 19.45502 5 37 59.10 +27 47 07.8 13.2 Hale 19.46173 5 38 01.45 +27 46 58.4 13.0 " 19.47459 5 38 05.77 +27 46 45.4 13.4 " 19.48078 5 38 07.88 +27 46 36.9 13.4 " V. A. Petriew (Cypress Hills, SK). Round coma of diameter 3' with condensed nucleus and no tail. 0.51-m f/5 reflector at 80x. Motion about 2' to the southeast over an hour. Magnitude approximate. A. Hale (Cloudcroft, NM). 0.20-m Schmidt-Cassegrain reflector + CCD. Visual observations with a 0.41-m reflector on Aug. 19.47 showed a coma diameter of 2'.5 and m_1 = 11.0. If anyone has a CCD camera on their Obsession, please send me a photo of this comet. Thanks! Here's a rough, linear ephemeris from Alin Tolea: > UT RA > day hour h m s deg ' > 18 0.0000000 5 29 33.014 28 15.69 > 18 1.0000000 5 29 47.432 28 14.88 > 18 2.0000001 5 30 18503 28 14.07 > 18 3.0000001 5 30 16.268 28 13.26 > 18 4.0000001 5 30 30.686 28 12.45 > 18 5.0000001 5 30 45.104 28 11.64 > 18 6.0000002 5 30 59.522 28 10.83 > 18 7.0000002 5 31 13.940 28 10.01 > 18 8.0000002 5 31 28.358 28 9.208 > 18 9.0000003 5 31 42.776 28 8.398 > 18 10.000000 5 31 57.194 28 7.587 > 18 11.000000 5 32 11.612 28 6.777 > 18 12.000000 5 32 26.030 28 5.966 > 18 13.000000 5 32 40.448 28 5.156 > 18 14.000000 5 32 54.866 28 4.345 > 18 15.000000 5 33 92845 28 3.535 > 18 16.000000 5 33 23.702 28 2.724 > 18 17.000001 5 33 38.120 28 1.914 > 18 18.000001 5 33 52.538 28 1.103 > 18 19.000001 5 34 69565 28 0.292 > 18 20.000001 5 34 21.374 27 59.48 > 18 21.000001 5 34 35.792 27 58.67 > 18 22.000001 5 34 50.210 27 57.86 > 18 23.000001 5 35 46286 27 57.05 > 19 0.0000001 5 35 19.046 27 56.24 > 19 1.0000007 5 35 33.464 27 55.42 > 19 2.0000008 5 35 47.882 27 54.61 > 19 3.0000008 5 36 23006 27 53.80 > 19 4.0000008 5 36 16.718 27 52.99 > 19 5.0000009 5 36 31.136 27 52.18 > 19 6.0000009 5 36 45.554 27 51.37 > 19 7.0000009 5 36 59.972 27 50.56 > 19 8.0000010 5 37 14.390 27 49.75 > 19 9.0000010 5 37 28.808 27 48.94 > 19 10.000001 5 37 43.226 27 48.13 > 19 11.000001 5 37 57.644 27 47.32 > 19 12.000001 5 38 12.062 27 46.51 > 19 13.000001 5 38 26.480 27 45.70 > 19 14.000001 5 38 40.898 27 44.89 > 19 15.000001 5 38 55.316 27 44.08 > 19 16.000001 5 39 97348 27 43.27 > 19 17.000001 5 39 24.152 27 42.46 > 19 18.000001 5 39 38.570 27 41.65 > 19 19.000001 5 39 52.988 27 40.83 > 19 20.000001 5 40 74068 27 40.02 > 19 21.000001 5 40 21.824 27 39.21 > 19 22.000001 5 40 36.242 27 38.40 > 19 23.000001 5 40 50.660 27 37.59 > 20 0.000001 5 41 50789 27 36.78 > 20 1.0000015 5 41 19.496 27 35.97 > 20 2.0000015 5 41 33.914 27 35.16 > 20 3.0000015 5 41 48.332 27 34.35 > 20 4.0000015 5 42 27509 27 33.54 > 20 5.0000016 5 42 17.168 27 32.73 > 20 6.0000016 5 42 31.586 27 31.92 > 20 7.0000016 5 42 46.004 27 31.11 > 20 8.0000017 5 43 02299 27 30.30 > 20 9.0000017 5 43 14.841 27 29.49 > 20 10.000002 5 43 29.259 27 28.68 > 20 11.000002 5 43 43.677 27 27.87 > 20 12.000002 5 43 58.095 27 27.06 > 20 13.000002 5 44 12.513 27 26.25 > 20 14.000002 5 44 26.931 27 25.43 > 20 15.000002 5 44 41.349 27 24.62 > 20 16.000002 5 44 55.767 27 23.81 > 20 17.000002 5 45 10.185 27 23.00 > 20 18.000002 5 45 24.603 27 22.19 > 20 19.000002 5 45 39.021 27 21.38 > 20 20.000002 5 45 53.439 27 20.57 > 20 21.000002 5 46 78571 27 19.76 > 20 22.000002 5 46 22.275 27 18.95 > 20 23.000002 5 46 36.693 27 18.14 > 21 0.000001 5 46 51.111 27 17.33 > 21 1.0000022 5 47 55291 27 16.52 > 21 2.0000022 5 47 19.947 27 15.71 > 21 3.0000022 5 47 34.365 27 14.90 > 21 4.0000023 5 47 48.783 27 14.09 > 21 5.0000023 5 48 32012 27 13.28 > 21 6.0000023 5 48 17.619 27 12.47 > 21 7.0000024 5 48 32.037 27 11.66 > 21 8.0000024 5 48 46.455 27 10.84 > 21 9.0000024 5 49 07327 27 10.03 > 21 10.000002 5 49 15.291 27 9.228 > 21 11.000002 5 49 29.709 27 8.418 > 21 12.000003 5 49 44.127 27 7.607 > 21 13.000003 5 49 58.545 27 6.797 > 21 14.000003 5 50 12.963 27 5.986 > 21 15.000003 5 50 27.381 27 5.175 > 21 16.000003 5 50 41.799 27 4.365 > 21 17.000003 5 50 56.217 27 3.554 > 21 18.000003 5 51 10.635 27 2.744 > 21 19.000003 5 51 25.053 27 1.933 > 21 20.000003 5 51 39.471 27 1.123 > 21 21.000003 5 51 53.889 27 0.312 > 21 22.000003 5 52 83074 26 59.50 > 21 23.000003 5 52 22.725 26 58.69 > 22 0.000001 5 52 37.143 26 57.88 > 22 1.0000029 5 52 51.561 26 57.07 > 22 2.0000029 5 53 59794 26 56.26 > 22 3.0000030 5 53 20.397 26 55.44 > 22 4.0000030 5 53 34.815 26 54.63 > 22 5.0000030 5 53 49.233 26 53.82 > 22 6.0000030 5 54 36515 26 53.01 > 22 7.0000031 5 54 18.069 26 52.20 > 22 8.0000031 5 54 32.487 26 51.39 > 22 9.0000031 5 54 46.905 26 50.58 > 22 10.000003 5 55 13235 26 49.77 > 22 11.000003 5 55 15.741 26 48.96 > 22 12.000003 5 55 30.159 26 48.15 > 22 13.000003 5 55 44.577 26 47.34 > 22 14.000003 5 55 58.995 26 46.53 > 22 15.000003 5 56 13.413 26 45.72 > 22 16.000003 5 56 27.831 26 44.91 > 22 17.000003 5 56 42.249 26 44.10 > 22 18.000003 5 56 56.667 26 43.29 > 22 19.000003 5 57 11.085 26 42.48 > 22 20.000003 5 57 25.503 26 41.67 > 22 21.000003 5 57 39.921 26 40.85 > 22 22.000004 5 57 54.339 26 40.04 > 22 23.000004 5 58 87576 26 39.23 > 23 0.000001 5 58 23.175 26 38.42 > 23 1.0000036 5 58 37.593 26 37.61 > 23 2.0000036 5 58 52.011 26 36.80 > 23 3.0000037 5 59 64297 26 35.99 > 23 4.0000037 5 59 20.847 26 35.18 > 23 5.0000037 5 59 35.265 26 34.37 > 23 6.0000038 5 59 49.683 26 33.56 > 23 7.0000038 6 0 41017 26 32.75 > 23 8.0000038 6 0 18.519 26 31.94 > 23 9.0000038 6 0 32.937 26 31.13 > 23 10.000004 6 0 47.355 26 30.32 > 23 11.000004 6 1 17738 26 29.51 > 23 12.000004 6 1 16.191 26 28.70 > 23 13.000004 6 1 30.609 26 27.89 > 23 14.000004 6 1 45.027 26 27.08 > 23 15.000004 6 1 59.445 26 26.26 > 23 16.000004 6 2 13.863 26 25.45 > 23 17.000004 6 2 28.281 26 24.64 > 23 18.000004 6 2 42.699 26 23.83 > 23 19.000004 6 2 57.117 26 23.02 > 23 20.000004 6 3 11.535 26 22.21 > 23 21.000004 6 3 25.953 26 21.40 > 23 22.000004 6 3 40.371 26 20.59 > 23 23.000004 6 3 54.789 26 19.78 Happy hunting! You can check out Dave's site later for some pictures of me and my telescope. Vance Petriew RASC - Regina Centre Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA Obsession #703 20" F5 C/2001 Q2 http://www.ras.sk.ca To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: obsessionusers-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --part1_131.50f06f.28b2e795_boundary-- --0-599875434-998352694=:26709-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Dunn Subject: (utah-astronomy) Powder Mountain Star Party Date: 21 Aug 2001 08:40:49 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12A57.A7186640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This should be a fun star party. Everyone is welcome to attend. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:53 AM News from the Ott Planetarium at Weber State University Department of Physics, 2508 University Circle, Ogden, UT 84408-2508 Visit us on the World Wide Web at: physics.weber.edu For Immediate Release August 21, 2001 WHAT: Powder Mountain Star Party and Slide Show WHERE: Powder Mountain Ski Area, Hidden Lake Lodge parking lot. WHEN: Saturday, August 25th at 8:45 p.m. WHO: The Ogden Astronomical Society and the Ott Planetarium at Weber State University. COST: Free Information: Call 626-6855 or visit us on the Internet at physics.weber.edu View the Stars from 9,000 Feet! EDEN, POWDER MOUNTAIN SKI AREA - Enjoy a night viewing great clusters of stars, a gas cloud left over from the explosive death of a star like our Sun, Mars, Mercury, the Moon, and Earth-orbiting satellites. All through our telescopes located at 9,000 feet. Join us as we thank Ogden Valley for passing a dark sky lighting ordinance, and get a view of what they are helping to preserve. Powder Mountain Ski Resort has graciously agreed to support this star party by supplying the site and facilities. Last year, the citizens of Ogden Valley passed a lighting ordinance to help preserve their view of the starry night sky. To celebrate their foresight, the Ott Planetarium and Ogden Astronomical Society are hosting a special star party for all Utahans and their visitors to enjoy at the top of Powder Mountain Ski Resort. The star party will start at approximately 8:45 p.m. with a slide show by Dr. John Sohl entitled "A Tour of the Universe." Sohl is the director of Weber State University's Ott Planetarium and is an professor of Physics. The Ott Planetarium will provide free star maps. Prior to sunset, at least one telescope will be specially equipped to safely observe our Sun; arrive early if you wish to observe the Sun. Both during and after the short slide show, as the sky gets darker, numerous telescopes will be put into action. The telescopes will be setup at the parking lot next to the Hidden Lake Lodge past the Powder Ridge Condominiums. We will keep the telescopes setup as long as there are people interested in using them. The Star Party will be canceled in the event of overcast sky. Call the planetarium phone and listen to the message at (801) 626-6855 if in doubt. Summer is one of the best times of the year to watch the sky, besides being warm, the variety of objects that can be seen is very diverse. On this night we should be able to see the planet Mercury for a short time right after sunset. Mars and the Moon will shine brightly in the southern sky. Overhead are two examples of the remains of dead stars - a view of our Sun's future. Also, many globular clusters of hundreds of thousands of stars will be well placed for viewing. There will also be a faint comet and numerous artificial satellites in view. Just after sunset the planet Mercury will look like a star to your eyes, in a telescope it will have a slightly out of round shape much like our moon a few days before full moon. This is not the best of the year to view Mercury, but you don't ever get too many good views of this planet that is closest to the Sun. On this particular night the first quarter Moon will dominate the southern sky. Through a telescope, the craters are so sharp that you will almost wonder if you can step into them. Also orbiting Earth, albeit much closer than the Moon, is a myriad of human made satellites. We will be able to see upwards of 28 satellites and old rocket parts (such as the Lacrosse 4 upper stage rocket shell) pass overhead during the course of the evening. Most of the satellites will take several minutes as they move past our view, however the Iridium 74 satellite will be the brightest and most interesting and will only be visible for a few seconds. Also part of our solar system is Comet Linear (known technically as C/2001 A2) which is faint but well placed at an altitude of about 50 degrees above the horizon between the constellations of Cygnus and Aquila. From a dark location on a summer evening, the Milky Way Galaxy stretches high across the sky from North to South. The Milky Way is a vast, pinwheel shaped star city of which our Sun is a member. In a pair of large binoculars you can scan the Milky Way and see myriads of stars forming a small fraction of the 100 billion stars of our galaxy. The constellation of Sagittarius will be high in the south, the stars forming that constellation are in the direction of the center of our home Galaxy. This is an especially interesting part of the sky containing the hot glowing gases of stellar nurseries. Two of the most breathtaking gas clouds that are busy creating new stars are M8, the Lagoon Nebula, and M20, the Trifid Nebula. Nearby there are also loose clusters of young stars that will soon be scattered among the rest of the stars of our galaxy. Many examples of these will be visible through the telescopes set up on Antelope Island. (The "M" numbers are the way these objects are listed in a particular catalog of nebula. This catalog, known as the Messier Catalog of Deep Sky Objects, is a listing of 104 of the finest objects visible to telescopes in the Northern Hemisphere.) High over head will be two famous nebulae that are the faint wispy clouds from the explosive deaths of large stars. The Ring Nebula (M57) and the Dumbbell Nebula (M27) are both examples of stars that exploded as a nova. This is what our own Sun will do in about five billion years. We might also get a chance to see the Veil Nebula which is a remnant of a supernova where a star completely blew itself into gas and dust. Most of the stars we can see are actually not a single star like our Sun but are in fact two or more stars closely orbiting each other. In the constellation of Cygnus the Swan, the star Albireo is actually a double star. One star of this double is distinctly blue and other is a pretty gold color. Our Milky Way Galaxy is surrounded by a halo of tightly packed star clusters. These old stars date from the earliest days of the formation of our galaxy. With a single glance into a well-aimed telescope you can see a million stars jammed into these globular clusters that hover around our galaxy. Again, one of the brightest and most spectacular of these, the Great Cluster in Hercules (M13), will be well placed for excellent viewing. But alas, our galaxy is but one huge star city among billions of star cities. Using a telescope, one can see dozens of other galaxies. Some are spiral shaped like ours, others look like fuzzy footballs and some are just irregular splotches of billions of stars. Many of these galaxies are so far away that the light has been traveling across the vastness of space for tens of millions of years before being captured by our telescopes and directed into our eyes. Among the many galaxies visible at this star party are M31, the Great Galaxy in Andromeda; M101 a pair of galaxies that recently collided with each other; M51, the Whirlpool Galaxy which is a giant pinwheel shaped galaxy similar to our own Milky Way. Unfortunately, the brightness of the Moon will likely interfere with our views of distant and faint galaxies, but we'll give it a try none-the-less. The members of the Ogden Astronomical Society, a club open to anyone with an interest in astronomy, will be available before and during the star party to help answer questions about telescopes and the heavens in general. Anyone who has a telescope is welcome to bring it with them. If you have had trouble using your telescope and need help setting it up and finding objects, then bring it with you, we will provide some assistance. One of the most challenging and confusing tasks a parent may face is buying a telescope for a child. Please! Before you waste any money, come ask for some advice and try out some of our instruments. The "Tour of the Universe" slide show will include some of the best images currently available. The slide show will be tailor made to match the objects that we will be able to see in the telescopes that night. Sohl will bring the audience on a visual trip from Earth to the most distant reaches of the Universe, then they can enjoy these great objects of the heavens themselves through our telescopes. Along the way we will also learn a few constellation stories. Sohl will also be available to answer astronomy questions during the course of the evening. The summer Star Parties are co-hosted by the Ogden Astronomical Society and the Ott Planetarium. The Ott Planetarium is sponsored by the Department of Physics and the College of Science at Weber State University. There will be additional star parties at Antelope Island this summer on the following Saturday nights: September 22, and October 20. There will also be a special star party on November 16-17 all night long at the Golden Spike National Monument in hopes of seeing the rare Leonids meteor storm. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12A57.A7186640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
This should be a fun star party. Everyone is welcome to attend.
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: John SOHL [mailto:JSOHL@weber.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:53 AM
Subject: Powder Mountain Star Party

News from the Ott Planetarium at Weber State University
Department of Physics, 2508 University Circle, Ogden, UT 84408-2508
Visit us on the World Wide Web at: physics.weber.edu
 
For Immediate Release August 21, 2001
 
WHAT: Powder Mountain Star Party and Slide Show
WHERE: Powder Mountain Ski Area, Hidden Lake Lodge parking lot.
WHEN: Saturday, August 25th  at 8:45 p.m.
WHO:  The Ogden Astronomical Society and the Ott Planetarium at Weber State University.
COST: Free
Information: Call 626-6855 or visit us on the Internet at physics.weber.edu
 

View the Stars from 9,000 Feet!
 
EDEN, POWDER MOUNTAIN SKI AREA - Enjoy a night viewing great clusters of stars, a gas cloud left over from the explosive death of a star like our Sun, Mars, Mercury, the Moon, and Earth-orbiting satellites. All through our telescopes located at 9,000 feet. Join us as we thank Ogden Valley for passing a dark sky lighting ordinance, and get a view of what they are helping to preserve. Powder Mountain Ski Resort has graciously agreed to support this star party by supplying the site and facilities.
 Last year, the citizens of Ogden Valley passed a lighting ordinance to help preserve their view of the starry night sky. To celebrate their foresight, the Ott Planetarium and Ogden Astronomical Society are hosting a special star party for all Utahans and their visitors to enjoy at the top of Powder Mountain Ski Resort. The star party will start at approximately 8:45 p.m. with a slide show by Dr. John Sohl entitled "A Tour of the Universe." Sohl is the director of Weber State University's Ott Planetarium and is an professor of Physics. The Ott Planetarium will provide free star maps. Prior to sunset, at least one telescope will be specially equipped to safely observe our Sun; arrive early if you wish to observe the Sun. Both during and after the short slide show, as the sky gets darker, numerous telescopes will be put into action. The telescopes will be setup at the parking lot next to the Hidden Lake Lodge past the Powder Ridge Condominiums. We will keep the telescopes setup as long as there are people interested in using them.
 The Star Party will be canceled in the event of overcast sky. Call the planetarium phone and listen to the message at  (801) 626-6855 if in doubt.
 Summer is one of the best times of the year to watch the sky, besides being warm, the variety of objects that can be seen is very diverse. On this night we should be able to see the planet Mercury for a short time right after sunset. Mars and the Moon will shine brightly in the southern sky. Overhead are two examples of the remains of dead stars - a view of our Sun's future. Also, many globular clusters of hundreds of thousands of stars will be well placed for viewing. There will also be a faint comet and numerous artificial satellites in view.
 Just after sunset the planet Mercury will look like a star to your eyes, in a telescope it will have a slightly out of round shape much like our moon a few days before full moon. This is not the best of the year to view Mercury, but you don't ever get too many good views of this planet that is closest to the Sun.
 On this particular night the first quarter Moon will dominate the southern sky. Through a telescope, the craters are so sharp that you will almost wonder if you can step into them. Also orbiting Earth, albeit much closer than the Moon, is a myriad of human made satellites. We will be able to see upwards of 28 satellites and old rocket parts (such as the Lacrosse 4 upper stage rocket shell) pass overhead during the course of the evening. Most of the satellites will take several minutes as they move past our view, however the Iridium 74 satellite will be the brightest and most interesting and will only be visible for a few seconds.
 Also part of our solar system is Comet Linear (known technically as C/2001 A2) which is faint but well placed at an altitude of about 50 degrees above the horizon between the constellations of Cygnus and Aquila.
 From a dark location on a summer evening, the Milky Way Galaxy stretches high across the sky from North to South. The Milky Way is a vast, pinwheel shaped star city of which our Sun is a member. In a pair of large binoculars you can scan the Milky Way and see myriads of stars forming a small fraction of the 100 billion stars of our galaxy.
 The constellation of Sagittarius will be high in the south, the stars forming that constellation are in the direction of the center of our home Galaxy. This is an especially interesting part of the sky containing the hot glowing gases of stellar nurseries. Two of the most breathtaking gas clouds that are busy creating new stars are M8, the Lagoon Nebula, and M20, the Trifid Nebula. Nearby there are also loose clusters of young stars that will soon be scattered among the rest of the stars of our galaxy. Many examples of these will be visible through the telescopes set up on Antelope Island. (The "M" numbers are the way these objects are listed in a particular catalog of nebula. This catalog, known as the Messier Catalog of Deep Sky Objects, is a listing of 104 of the finest objects visible to telescopes in the Northern Hemisphere.)
 High over head will be two famous nebulae that are the faint wispy clouds from the explosive deaths of large stars. The Ring Nebula (M57) and the Dumbbell Nebula (M27) are both examples of stars that exploded as a nova. This is what our own Sun will do in about five billion years. We might also get a chance to see the Veil Nebula which is a remnant of a supernova where a star completely blew itself into gas and dust.
 Most of the stars we can see are actually not a single star like our Sun but are in fact two or more stars closely orbiting each other. In the constellation of Cygnus the Swan, the star Albireo is actually a double star. One star of this double is distinctly blue and other is a pretty gold color.
 Our Milky Way Galaxy is surrounded by a halo of tightly packed star clusters. These old stars date from the earliest days of the formation of our galaxy. With a single glance into a well-aimed telescope you can see a million stars jammed into these globular clusters that hover around our galaxy. Again, one of the brightest and most spectacular of these, the Great Cluster in Hercules (M13), will be well placed for excellent viewing.
 But alas, our galaxy is but one huge star city among billions of star cities. Using a telescope, one can see dozens of other galaxies. Some are spiral shaped like ours, others look like fuzzy footballs and some are just irregular splotches of billions of stars. Many of these galaxies are so far away that the light has been traveling across the vastness of space for tens of millions of years before being captured by our telescopes and directed into our eyes. Among the many galaxies visible at this star party are M31, the Great Galaxy in Andromeda; M101 a pair of galaxies that recently collided with each other; M51, the Whirlpool Galaxy which is a giant pinwheel shaped galaxy similar to our own Milky Way. Unfortunately, the brightness of the Moon will likely interfere with our views of distant and faint galaxies, but we'll give it a try none-the-less.
 The members of the Ogden Astronomical Society, a club open to anyone with an interest in astronomy, will be available before and during the star party to help answer questions about telescopes and the heavens in general. Anyone who has a telescope is welcome to bring it with them. If you have had trouble using your telescope and need help setting it up and finding objects, then bring it with you, we will provide some assistance. One of the most challenging and confusing tasks a parent may face is buying a telescope for a child. Please! Before you waste any money, come ask for some advice and try out some of our instruments.
 The "Tour of the Universe" slide show will include some of the best images currently available. The slide show will be tailor made to match the objects that we will be able to see in the telescopes that night. Sohl will bring the audience on a visual trip from Earth to the most distant reaches of the Universe, then they can enjoy these great objects of the heavens themselves through our telescopes. Along the way we will also learn a few constellation stories. Sohl will also be available to answer astronomy questions during the course of the evening.
  The summer Star Parties are co-hosted by the Ogden Astronomical Society and the Ott Planetarium. The Ott Planetarium is sponsored by the Department of Physics and the College of Science at Weber State University.
 
There will be additional star parties at Antelope Island this summer on the following Saturday nights: September 22, and October 20.
There will also be a special star party on November 16-17 all night long at the Golden Spike National Monument in hopes of seeing the rare Leonids meteor storm.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C12A57.A7186640-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Tenney Subject: (utah-astronomy) Sir Fred Hoyle Date: 23 Aug 2001 07:32:05 -0700 (PDT) I was pretty sad to learn of the passing of Sir Fred Hoyle; his book "Frontiers of Astronomy" was a key part of my developing a love of the heavens many years ago. I can't say I enjoyed his attempt(s) at Science Fiction, but he was an outstanding Astronomer, and two of his books that I own on astronomy/cosmology are superb. My 2 cents, Rich __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Sir Fred Hoyle Date: 23 Aug 2001 10:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Wasn't Hoyle the originator of the "Dirty Snowball" comet model? Chuck --- Richard Tenney wrote: > I was pretty sad to learn of the passing of Sir Fred > Hoyle; his book "Frontiers of Astronomy" was a key > part of my developing a love of the heavens many > years > ago. I can't say I enjoyed his attempt(s) at > Science > Fiction, but he was an outstanding Astronomer, and > two > of his books that I own on astronomy/cosmology are > superb. > > My 2 cents, > Rich > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Tenney Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Sir Fred Hoyle Date: 23 Aug 2001 12:55:24 -0700 (PDT) --0-1542952646-998596524=:32254 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Chuck, You're thinking of Fred Whipple (close!). Rich --- Chuck Hards wrote: > Wasn't Hoyle the originator of the "Dirty Snowball" > comet model? > > Chuck > > > --- Richard Tenney wrote: > > I was pretty sad to learn of the passing of Sir > Fred > > Hoyle; his book "Frontiers of Astronomy" was a key > > part of my developing a love of the heavens many > > years > > ago. I can't say I enjoyed his attempt(s) at > > Science > > Fiction, but he was an outstanding Astronomer, and > > two > > of his books that I own on astronomy/cosmology are > > superb. > > > > My 2 cents, > > Rich > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > - > > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > > the message. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. > > > ________________ > Email Forwarding Service Brought To You By: > http://www.bn3.com. > We can let you become anybody@anyplace.com. FREE, In > 5 minutes! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-1542952646-998596524=:32254-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Yard Sales Date: 27 Aug 2001 10:11:06 -0700 (PDT) This weekend I picked up a Meade 60mm f/15 refractor on equatorial mount, for only $15 at a neighborhood yard sale! The whole thing was dusty and in need of adjustment, but there was no damage and it cleaned up nicely. The focuser is .965" plastic junk, but I just happened to have an aluminmum 1.25" model on-hand, that fit the tube perfectly. The lens shows almost no spurious color at f/15; as good as a doublet gets. Even the finder has an achromatic objective and metal barrel- I'd say this one is an early-to-mid eighties model. It has slow-motions on both axes. I have also found projection lenses, binoculars, and loose optics, all at Wasatch-front yard sales in recent years, for mere pennies on the dollar. I would encourage all atm's to not forget the resource that is sometimes right next door! Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Big Sunspot Date: 27 Aug 2001 13:12:01 -0700 (PDT) I was just checking out a new finder I have made (57x362 objective, home-made 24mm Plossl eyepiece) and noticed another big sunspot group, no doubt the region responsible for the aurora alert now in effect. Check it out! Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Tenney Subject: (utah-astronomy) Telescope for sale Date: 27 Aug 2001 14:45:26 -0700 (PDT) A colleague of mine wants to sell his telescope as he never seems to have or find the time to use it. Here's his description: For Sale: Meade Starfinder 10" f/4.5 Dobsonian Telescope. Excellent condition. Fully assembled. Has spotting scope and Telrad. Has been collimated. 1.25" focuser with a 25 mm eyepiece. Includes Instruction Manual. $575.00. Craig Moe 319-4466 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 07:19:13 -0600 Dear fellow amateurs astronomers, I am working on a story for the Deseret News about light pollution. Some of you know I started on it long ago, but then our competition picked up on the subject and it would have been unseemly to follow them right away, so I put it off. Now it's back on. Please contact me with e-mail descriptions of the light pollution scene in Utah, if you are interested. I will need this as soon as possible. Tell me anything you wish about the topic, whether ordinances should be changed, whether you've had any bad experiences, if things are OK as they are -- anything. And I would like it today if possible. It would be for a story that I'd hope to have in the paper on Monday. Thanks very much, Joe Bauman, science writer, Deseret News. PS: Someone in the group sent me some info on the subject by mail. In case I can't find it quickly, could you tell me again about it? - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steinicke, Brett" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:51:35 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FC8.8D56DF90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think it would be good to mention why tail lights are red and why headlights are shielded. Brett -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:19 AM Dear fellow amateurs astronomers, I am working on a story for the Deseret News about light pollution. Some of you know I started on it long ago, but then our competition picked up on the subject and it would have been unseemly to follow them right away, so I put it off. Now it's back on. Please contact me with e-mail descriptions of the light pollution scene in Utah, if you are interested. I will need this as soon as possible. Tell me anything you wish about the topic, whether ordinances should be changed, whether you've had any bad experiences, if things are OK as they are -- anything. And I would like it today if possible. It would be for a story that I'd hope to have in the paper on Monday. Thanks very much, Joe Bauman, science writer, Deseret News. PS: Someone in the group sent me some info on the subject by mail. In case I can't find it quickly, could you tell me again about it? - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FC8.8D56DF90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution

I think it would be good to mention why tail lights = are red and why headlights are shielded.

Brett

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bauman [mailto:bau@desnews.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:19 AM
To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com
Subject: (utah-astronomy) light pollution


Dear fellow amateurs astronomers, I am working on a = story for the Deseret
News about light pollution. Some of you know I = started on it long ago, but
then our competition picked up on the subject and it = would have been
unseemly to follow them right away, so I put it off. = Now it's back on.
Please contact me with e-mail descriptions of the = light pollution scene in
Utah, if you are interested. I will need this as = soon as possible. Tell me
anything you wish about the topic, whether = ordinances should be changed,
whether you've had any bad experiences, if things = are OK as they are --
anything. And I would like it today if possible. It = would be for a story
that I'd hope to have in the paper on Monday. Thanks = very much, Joe Bauman,
science writer, Deseret News.

PS: Someone in the group sent me some info on the = subject by mail. In case
I can't find it quickly, could you tell me again = about it?



-
 Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board:
 http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy
 To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an = email to "majordomo@xmission.com"
 with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in = the body of the message.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FC8.8D56DF90-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 07:53:32 -0600 Can you go into that more deeply for me? I'd like to quote you on that. jb - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steinicke, Brett" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:35:24 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FD7.0E561080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The point I was making with the cars is that there are reasons for shielded lighting besides light pollution. There are safety concerns. When you are driving you don't want lights shining right in your eyes. Even lighting around your house or business shielded is better because then you cast light on what you want people to see rather than casting light in their eyes or into space. Brett -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:54 AM Can you go into that more deeply for me? I'd like to quote you on that. jb - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FD7.0E561080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution

The point I was making with the cars is that there = are reasons for shielded lighting besides light pollution. There are = safety concerns. When you are driving you don't want lights shining = right in your eyes. Even lighting around your house or business = shielded is better because then you cast light on what you want people = to see rather than casting light in their eyes or into space. =

Brett

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bauman [mailto:bau@desnews.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:54 AM
To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution


Can you go into that more deeply for me? I'd like to = quote you on that. jb



-
 Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board:
 http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy
 To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an = email to "majordomo@xmission.com"
 with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in = the body of the message.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FD7.0E561080-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:25:37 -0600 Great, I'd like to use that in my story. Thanks, Joe - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) JOe, my big concern is that most people don't even think it's a problem. Even at the neighborhood level, people don't think twice about "light trespass", blasting a spotlight into a neighbor's yard. I have a neighbor with a halogen light on top of a flagpole, illuminating the area for a hundred yards in all directions, and they are completely uncaring that it causes problems for neighbors. People don't know the difference between "good lighting" and over-illumination. I've about written off the Salt Lake valley, I don't intend to retire here, and the average inhabitant is an ignoramous living in an ivory tower. You can't tell them anything that they don't want to hear. Chuck --- Joe Bauman wrote: > Dear fellow amateurs astronomers, I am working on a > story for the Deseret > News about light pollution. Some of you know I > started on it long ago, but > then our competition picked up on the subject and it > would have been > unseemly to follow them right away, so I put it off. > Now it's back on. > Please contact me with e-mail descriptions of the > light pollution scene in > Utah, if you are interested. I will need this as > soon as possible. Tell me > anything you wish about the topic, whether > ordinances should be changed, > whether you've had any bad experiences, if things > are OK as they are -- > anything. And I would like it today if possible. It > would be for a story > that I'd hope to have in the paper on Monday. Thanks > very much, Joe Bauman, > science writer, Deseret News. > > PS: Someone in the group sent me some info on the > subject by mail. In case > I can't find it quickly, could you tell me again > about it? > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Let me add that astronomers, club members, and members of this list are NOT to be grouped among the "average inhabitants"!! Chuck --- Chuck Hards wrote: > JOe, my big concern is that most people don't even > think it's a problem. Even at the neighborhood > level, > people don't think twice about "light trespass", > blasting a spotlight into a neighbor's yard. I have > a > neighbor with a halogen light on top of a flagpole, > illuminating the area for a hundred yards in all > directions, and they are completely uncaring that it > causes problems for neighbors. People don't know > the > difference between "good lighting" and > over-illumination. > > I've about written off the Salt Lake valley, I don't > intend to retire here, and the average inhabitant is > an ignoramous living in an ivory tower. You can't > tell them anything that they don't want to hear. > > Chuck > > --- Joe Bauman wrote: > > Dear fellow amateurs astronomers, I am working on > a > > story for the Deseret > > News about light pollution. Some of you know I > > started on it long ago, but > > then our competition picked up on the subject and > it > > would have been > > unseemly to follow them right away, so I put it > off. > > Now it's back on. > > Please contact me with e-mail descriptions of the > > light pollution scene in > > Utah, if you are interested. I will need this as > > soon as possible. Tell me > > anything you wish about the topic, whether > > ordinances should be changed, > > whether you've had any bad experiences, if things > > are OK as they are -- > > anything. And I would like it today if possible. > It > > would be for a story > > that I'd hope to have in the paper on Monday. > Thanks > > very much, Joe Bauman, > > science writer, Deseret News. > > > > PS: Someone in the group sent me some info on the > > subject by mail. In case > > I can't find it quickly, could you tell me again > > about it? > > > > > > > > - > > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > > the message. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steinicke, Brett" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:15:19 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FDC.A1EEB1D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That is too bad. Maybe you should help shield it for him some night, I'm sure you could find some teenagers willing to shield it completely with a wrist rocket. Then you could discuss overshielding and proper shielding. Brett -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:01 AM JOe, my big concern is that most people don't even think it's a problem. Even at the neighborhood level, people don't think twice about "light trespass", blasting a spotlight into a neighbor's yard. I have a neighbor with a halogen light on top of a flagpole, illuminating the area for a hundred yards in all directions, and they are completely uncaring that it causes problems for neighbors. People don't know the difference between "good lighting" and over-illumination. I've about written off the Salt Lake valley, I don't intend to retire here, and the average inhabitant is an ignoramous living in an ivory tower. You can't tell them anything that they don't want to hear. Chuck --- Joe Bauman wrote: > Dear fellow amateurs astronomers, I am working on a > story for the Deseret > News about light pollution. Some of you know I > started on it long ago, but > then our competition picked up on the subject and it > would have been > unseemly to follow them right away, so I put it off. > Now it's back on. > Please contact me with e-mail descriptions of the > light pollution scene in > Utah, if you are interested. I will need this as > soon as possible. Tell me > anything you wish about the topic, whether > ordinances should be changed, > whether you've had any bad experiences, if things > are OK as they are -- > anything. And I would like it today if possible. It > would be for a story > that I'd hope to have in the paper on Monday. Thanks > very much, Joe Bauman, > science writer, Deseret News. > > PS: Someone in the group sent me some info on the > subject by mail. In case > I can't find it quickly, could you tell me again > about it? > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FDC.A1EEB1D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution

That is too bad. Maybe you should help shield it for = him some night, I'm sure you could find some teenagers willing to = shield it completely with a wrist rocket. Then you could discuss = overshielding and proper shielding.

Brett

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Hards [mailto:chuckhards@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:01 AM
To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution


JOe, my big concern is that most people don't = even
think it's a problem.  Even at the neighborhood = level,
people don't think twice about "light = trespass",
blasting a spotlight into a neighbor's yard.  I = have a
neighbor with a halogen light on top of a = flagpole,
illuminating the area for a hundred yards in = all
directions, and they are completely uncaring that = it
causes problems for neighbors.  People don't = know the
difference between "good lighting" = and
over-illumination.

I've about written off the Salt Lake valley, I = don't
intend to retire here, and the average inhabitant = is
an ignoramous living in an ivory tower.  You = can't
tell them anything that they don't want to = hear.

Chuck

--- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
> Dear fellow amateurs astronomers, I am working = on a
> story for the Deseret
> News about light pollution. Some of you know = I
> started on it long ago, but
> then our competition picked up on the subject = and it
> would have been
> unseemly to follow them right away, so I put it = off.
> Now it's back on.
> Please contact me with e-mail descriptions of = the
> light pollution scene in
> Utah, if you are interested. I will need this = as
> soon as possible. Tell me
> anything you wish about the topic, = whether
> ordinances should be changed,
> whether you've had any bad experiences, if = things
> are OK as they are --
> anything. And I would like it today if = possible. It
> would be for a story
> that I'd hope to have in the paper on Monday. = Thanks
> very much, Joe Bauman,
> science writer, Deseret News.
>
> PS: Someone in the group sent me some info on = the
> subject by mail. In case
> I can't find it quickly, could you tell me = again
> about it?
>
>
>
> -
>  Visit the Utah Astronomy Message = Board:
>  http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy
>  To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send = an email
> to "majordomo@xmission.com"
>  with "unsubscribe = utah-astronomy" in the body of
> the message.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute = with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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 Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board:
 http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy
 To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an = email to "majordomo@xmission.com"
 with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in = the body of the message.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FDC.A1EEB1D0-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 10:04:43 -0600 Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steinicke, Brett" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:44:40 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FE0.BB5B30E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joe, Something else useful would be to show that Earth-at-night jpeg, if they let you have a picture for your article. A search on yahoo for "shielded lighting" returns 229 matches here are a few: http://www.wisconline.com/greenmap/milwaukee/darksky.html http://www.atmob.org/DarkSky/fcolightsnotforsale.html http://members.aol.com/ctstarwchr/ -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:05 AM Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FE0.BB5B30E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution

Joe,

Something else useful would be to show that = Earth-at-night jpeg, if they let you have a picture for your = article.
A search on yahoo for "shielded lighting" = returns 229 matches here are a few:

http://www.wisconline.com/greenmap/milwaukee/darksky.h= tml
http://www.atmob.org/DarkSky/fcolightsnotforsale.html<= /A>
http://members.aol.com/ctstarwchr/

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bauman [mailto:bau@desnews.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:05 AM
To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution


Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe



-
 Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board:
 http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy
 To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an = email to "majordomo@xmission.com"
 with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in = the body of the message.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C12FE0.BB5B30E0-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 10:35:47 -0600 Thanks, I asked our photographers to try and get a view of SLC at night with night glow blocking out all but a few stars. If they can't manage it I plan to get one of these jpgs. -- Joe - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 10:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Get a shot from the valley, then another from Grantsville, for comparison. Joe, you've lived here a long time, yes? I grew up next door to the U of U. In the sixties and seventies, the skies were far from pristine, but I used to observe from my backyard there, and saw every Messier and hundreds of NGC objects back then, with a 4-inch scope. Those same observations are now impossible even with three times the aperture and LPR filters. I believe that Colorado recently passed some lighting ordinances that are headed in the right direction, but Utah seems to be home to some of the most ignorant, uncaring, uninformed lawmakers IN THE WORLD. Either that, or they are beholdant to their cousins, brothers, etc., who are in the land development business in one aspect or another. I've been an independant member of IDA for years; I think northern Utah is about the least-fertile ground for making progress in reducing light pollution due to our relatively closed governmental society. I've written a few letters, always to be branded "weird fringe", and I'm sick of banging my head against the wall, trying to take on a pack of mindless muppets. YOU have the weapon, Joe. Go get 'em in the press. But be prepared for a return volley. Chuck --- Joe Bauman wrote: > Thanks, I asked our photographers to try and get a > view of SLC at night > with night glow blocking out all but a few stars. If > they can't manage it I > plan to get one of these jpgs. -- Joe > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:25:03 -0700 (PDT) This guy has three kids in high-school, and there is always a late-night basketball game in his driveway. Unfortunately, the entire neighborhood is populated with people who are confrontational. When I tell them about a lighting problem, they say "sue me". Obviously I can't afford to take even a small percentage of my neighbors to court over an issue like this. These people are good, hard-working people, for the most part, but there is little sense of community. Most are taking their own personal stand against anyone or anything that threatens their command of their own property. They just don't understand the issue, and don't really want to, or don't have the capacity to. "Light Trespass" is a concept utterly foreign and incomprehensible to them. And for the few who do understand, they feel that it's a trivial issue and not worth their time to remedy. I and people like me are "whackos without enough to do". My preferred solution is to move, if I could find work in a rural community with few outdoor lights, I'd be gone tomorrow. As I said before, this place is a lost cause. You can only reason with dolts so long before realizing that you're getting nowhere. Only two things will work: Forced legislation, or a methodical, constant media campaign. Chuck --- "Steinicke, Brett" wrote: > That is too bad. Maybe you should help shield it for > him some night, I'm > sure you could find some teenagers willing to shield > it completely with a > wrist rocket. Then you could discuss overshielding > and proper shielding. > > Brett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Witte Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:26:34 -0600 ------ =_NextPart_000_01C12FBC.AD5D1400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Orem City has started installing their new streetlights and apparently = I'm not the only one that isn't happy about it. =20 This ran on the front page of the herald today: http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=3D23142&mode=3Dthread&order=3D= 0 You may want to at least mention the complaints Orem is getting in your = article, the lighting is HORRIBLE! I have driven by these new lights at = night and the glare in your eyes makes it difficult to see the road. = I've also seen that some people who have the streetlights in their front = yard have hung blankets in their windows. The sad thing is there were = several people from UVAA (Rich Tenney & Mark Dakins among them) who took = the time to attend the city council meetings and specifically warned = them about this stuff. They outright disregarded everything they said. = I'm just glad I don't live in Orem anymore or I'd be investing in some = black paint and/or a shotgun. ---------- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:04 AM Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to = "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------ =_NextPart_000_01C12FBC.AD5D1400 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiMSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAYAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHV0YWgtYXN0cm9ub215 QGxpc3RzLnhtaXNzaW9uLmNvbQBTTVRQAHV0YWgtYXN0cm9ub215QGxpc3RzLnhtaXNzaW9uLmNv bQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIgAAAHV0YWgtYXN0cm9ub215QGxpc3Rz LnhtaXNzaW9uLmNvbQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACQAAAAndXRhaC1hc3Ryb25v bXlAbGlzdHMueG1pc3Npb24uY29tJwACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOlVUQUgtQVNUUk9OT01ZQExJ U1RTLlhNSVNTSU9OLkNPTQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAITTwEEgAEA JQAAAFJFOiAodXRhaC1hc3Ryb25vbXkpIGxpZ2h0IHBvbGx1dGlvbgBLDQEFgAMADgAAANEHCAAc AAwAGgAiAAIARgEBIIADAA4AAADRBwgAHAAMAAwADwACACUBAQmAAQAhAAAAQzk5NTk4MDA1NTdD QUE0MzlEMzkyQzk0NjlGRUNGN0YAUwcBA5AGAHAGAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAA AAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBAq0/37i/BAR4AcAABAAAAJQAAAFJFOiAodXRhaC1hc3Ry b25vbXkpIGxpZ2h0IHBvbGx1dGlvbgAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABwS/u90+KI77sY/hKF6Iem1PI pxv9AAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAAHF1ZXN0b3J0QGhvbWUuY29tAAAA AwAGEFr6oB4DAAcQPgQAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAE9SRU1DSVRZSEFTU1RBUlRFRElOU1RBTExJTkdU SEVJUk5FV1NUUkVFVExJR0hUU0FOREFQUEFSRU5UTFlJTU5PVFRIRU9OTFlPTkVUSEFUSVNOVEhB UFBZQUJPVVRJVFRISVMAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADVBAAA0QQAAA4IAABMWkZ1B5dQywMACgByY3BnMTI1 /jIA/wIGAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldP4yBgAGwwKDDlAD1QcTAoO6MxPNfQqACM8J2TsW v70OMDUCgAqBDnELYG4OELwwMxTgCwoU4gwBYwBABCBPFsBtIENpdOx5IBKABCBzAZAAIAmAJiAL gByBbGwLgGcg0HRoZWkFwG4H0RyAxQnRdB1gZ2h0BCAAcHkc4GFwCrEJ8B6gHCBJsicb0G5vBUAd sSACIG8f4QIgILAdsGEFQAQAbv4nBUASgB9wHCABoAhgIZEwdC4gIAqFCoVUaPkEACByA5ECICCD A1ECMOogCrBnILFmIIMdwCRQimwc4HQEcGF5OiMsgR7gdHA6Ly93KEBaLhKBax2xJiQuBaBtBi8c oQ3gbGUucGgEcD8AkGQ9MjMxaDQyJgRiPR2wFsBhbGQmBbAEgT0KdgqFWW0IYCAAwBwgdwBwIHFv fx8QBUAp8BxQBUAHgAIwaf8klSlhC1Me8RujJCElgAJAcx1yC4AgeQhhHxAptCwPIIMeszDTBCBI T1JSoElCTEUhIwBJHDG6diCwZAUQNBADoGIcIP8dsRKwHgMetgVAAwAe0R8TnSCSZwtgFsAxB2V5 B5G9AMBrB5EcADQwBpBmDeD8dWwtwxKwIUIgsANgK5DvIvEgEDQRB0BzOXMkoiGBZzrwB4AlUGVv C1AgsHf+aC3wM/Mgkh5bMREdtCUE5nkLETPkaHUdgQJgAHCPOFA9+gPwHzBvd3Mi8X8kAD0xK5Ad oTK1HbE3MXc/QvISsDQQJkE8BgNSIFVAVkFBIChSDeBobyPwCfAeEBwgJgXQKJEgPkQ4QB0BHxAE YB2EbSn7PHMmkG9GMCCSKcA74S3j+xzANpVjHAIFoD/ASYADIO8HgBLAHXEfBHM8EEmAOPH/HUEt cgSgHNFHIiJlQkEcYv51DpBBlCEBIqAFEDZCOMC6cxbAZwsRHNFDknlCRD8dsRwgQgAqcDpTG9Bq df8ucTcBHOAz0EFQIdIdYDQR/zERG6MAcAbABbAgsQXAIBD9HOBiN0I0EByAMNU7w0ABXmNGMAqw L8EfEi8FsWHTHHA8kHRnP8AuC0YTso8bNSMsCvQdYDE4MALR9GktKsA0DrAM0FpDC1lcMTYKoANg HMBjBUAtX1xnCodbGwwwW+ZGA2E6R11uW+YMgiBKbyCwQvxhdQOBXQ9eHQZgAjBfTzVgW1QKUHMm sTIAQXWzVvAucTI4MgAB0DAbgNEZ4DowNBQwTWHPXh0cVG9kD2BbIqBhaC3nLmElEQNweUAdYByA QYB8eG0EAS7hKVJn/2LedZxialwhah9gW1JlcHD+KGv8R2AesyVQBvAKQC7S81hvWXMzNlrnGvVp dxKA9UAwczIAQz+wVZAzoFxgf2FQVHEyAGEhIywjLFz2IO5WBAA4kSCSVWwBFDBsVu8F0AeQQgAl gUI6IAsgJuYFJ8ZwcBA2MS5levcG4AsRKVNia/JsR3sWafD/a+AAgHAQBPJUEURza/wyAH8SsB8y A6AbwAtwAyAt4SJNAMBqK8EDcG9AbUoiv3sWA/AdsISwgapr/CI+Fb80oARwIQElxAeBfVIudQ9f WudXtVvmCoUV4QCN0AAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAEAAABAAAcwgNyU9+wvwQFAAAgwgNyU9+wvwQEe AD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAA9O4= ------ =_NextPart_000_01C12FBC.AD5D1400-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RStmarie@aol.com Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 16:27:11 EDT --part1_111.496992d.28bd589f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett, everyone knows tail lights are red in Utah due to doppler shift! Have you noticed headlights are getting bluer? --part1_111.496992d.28bd589f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett, everyone knows tail lights are red in Utah due to doppler shift!   
Have you noticed headlights are getting bluer? --part1_111.496992d.28bd589f_boundary-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Tenney Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Any lawyers in our midst? Perhaps one of more of us could file a lawsuit over the pollution aspect of stray light, something like getting a noise ordinance going in a given community. I wonder what kind of wide-ranging precedent that might set for similar lawsuits that could turn the whole streetlighting thing on its ear...? Something to think about anyway... I can certainly empathize with Chuck and his frustration with the general mindset of this community. But if all the good people move away Chuck, all hope of any catalyst for good also vanishes... a sad thought! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RStmarie@aol.com Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 16:35:22 EDT --part1_134.c64b28.28bd5a8a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, I sent you a Farmington city lighting brochure which begged people to leave lights on all night. Bad, bad, bad. It encouraged waste. It encouraged the wrong type of lighting. You can get one at the Farmington City Office. If I get by there I'll pick one up and send it your way. Might be a bit as I am in Tulsa. --part1_134.c64b28.28bd5a8a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, I sent you a Farmington city lighting brochure which begged people to
leave lights on all night.  Bad, bad, bad.  It encouraged waste.  It
encouraged the wrong type of lighting.  You can get one at the Farmington
City Office.  If I get by there I'll pick one up and send it your way.  Might
be a bit as I am in Tulsa. --part1_134.c64b28.28bd5a8a_boundary-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Tenney Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:48:43 -0700 (PDT) A fine example of how stupid some people are over this issue, one woman stood up in the Orem City Council discussion over the streetlight issue and suggested that we actually needed spotlights shining on the upper stories of apartment buildings for safety sake, as some cat-burgular might want to scale up the side of a tall building and sneak in her balcony window. Heaven help us! "Paranoia runs deep" as the old song goes... I've found that it usually doesn't help to appeal to people's sense of aesthetics over the lost night sky, dim stars, lost milky way, etc. Most people unfortunately seem to give a rat's rear-end about aesthetics (just look at the kind of filth most of them are willing to call "home" and the kinds of crap they stuff down their throat that is laughably passed off as food to see how far removed they are from caring about anything as an example). But stress the economics of bad lighting and you might get their attention. --- Paul Witte wrote: > Orem City has started installing their new > streetlights and apparently I'm not the only one > that isn't happy about it. > > This ran on the front page of the herald today: > > http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=23142&mode=thread&order=0 > > You may want to at least mention the complaints Orem > is getting in your article, the lighting is > HORRIBLE! I have driven by these new lights at > night and the glare in your eyes makes it difficult > to see the road. I've also seen that some people > who have the streetlights in their front yard have > hung blankets in their windows. The sad thing is > there were several people from UVAA (Rich Tenney & > Mark Dakins among them) who took the time to attend > the city council meetings and specifically warned > them about this stuff. They outright disregarded > everything they said. I'm just glad I don't live in > Orem anymore or I'd be investing in some black paint > and/or a shotgun. > > ---------- > From: Joe Bauman > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:04 AM > To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution > > Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Rich has it right. This needs to be approached as a matter for environmental law, and ecconomics. Sorry if I seem to be throwing my hands up in the air and walking away, but I'm tired of beating my head against a brick wall. I can't seem to make any progress alone, even in my own little corner of the world. We truly need to band together to win this fight, and enlist the power of the press. We are very lucky to have Joe Bauman in our midst in this regard. Some of my frustration stems from the fact that when we bought our lot, it was in a rather dark "pocket" of West Valley, surrounded by fields and "horse property". Within two years, we had half a dozen new car dealerships and shopping centers within a mile of the house. "If you come, they will build it", to mangle the old expression. Not just lawyers, but lighting engineers who truly know the difference between good and bad lighting need to be co-opted. Ammunition for the courts. It would really be a shame (and a sign of the times) if astronomy clubs had to start apportioning some of their meager budgets for litigation. Perhaps when SPOC-2 is complete, we can turn Siegfried loose on raising funds for our environmental-defense fund! ;) Seriously, we need to talk to the birders and Sierra Clubbers; our interests are similar with respect to light pollution. Chuck --- Richard Tenney wrote: > Any lawyers in our midst? > > Perhaps one of more of us could file a lawsuit over > the pollution aspect of stray light, something like > getting a noise ordinance going in a given > community. > I wonder what kind of wide-ranging precedent that > might set for similar lawsuits that could turn the > whole streetlighting thing on its ear...? > > Something to think about anyway... > > I can certainly empathize with Chuck and his > frustration with the general mindset of this > community. But if all the good people move away > Chuck, all hope of any catalyst for good also > vanishes... a sad thought! > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steinicke, Brett" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 17:15:26 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13006.8E686D70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes I think it is because of the big wide I-15. It seems to make feet heavier as well. Brett -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:27 PM Brett, everyone knows tail lights are red in Utah due to doppler shift! Have you noticed headlights are getting bluer? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13006.8E686D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes I think it is because of the big wide I-15. It seems to make feet heavier as well.
 
Brett
-----Original Message-----
From: RStmarie@aol.com [mailto:RStmarie@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:27 PM
To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution

Brett, everyone knows tail lights are red in Utah due to doppler shift!   
Have you noticed headlights are getting bluer?
------_=_NextPart_001_01C13006.8E686D70-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brent Watson" Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:41:45 -0700 Perhaps we should celebrate some of the successes we have had in Utah. Last weekend the Ogden Astronomical Society sponsored a star party at a Weber County ski resort (sorry, I can't remember which one.) to help say thanks for the new lighting and anti light pollution laws passed in Weber County. There is some headway being made! Joe, Sandy City decided to install new lighting also. When I fly at night, it is VERY easy to see where the city boundary is. The city of Sandy is significantly brighter than the communities to the north. It should be very easy to get an arial photo that shows the difference. Brent - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William Kelley" Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 18:15:03 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:41 PM > Perhaps we should celebrate some of the successes we have had in Utah. Last > weekend the Ogden Astronomical Society sponsored a star party at a Weber > County ski resort (sorry, I can't remember which one.) to help say thanks > for the new lighting and anti light pollution laws passed in Weber County. > There is some headway being made! > > Joe, Sandy City decided to install new lighting also. When I fly at night, > it is VERY easy to see where the city boundary is. The city of Sandy is > significantly brighter than the communities to the north. It should be very > easy to get an arial photo that shows the difference. > > Brent > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William Kelley" Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 18:16:37 -0700 Sorry Brent- I didn't mean to hit the send button with your post on the screen. Regards- Bill Kelley ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:41 PM > Perhaps we should celebrate some of the successes we have had in Utah. Last > weekend the Ogden Astronomical Society sponsored a star party at a Weber > County ski resort (sorry, I can't remember which one.) to help say thanks > for the new lighting and anti light pollution laws passed in Weber County. > There is some headway being made! > > Joe, Sandy City decided to install new lighting also. When I fly at night, > it is VERY easy to see where the city boundary is. The city of Sandy is > significantly brighter than the communities to the north. It should be very > easy to get an arial photo that shows the difference. > > Brent > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Russell Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 28 Aug 2001 21:50:44 -0600 I second this opinion. I live not far from a street that has these new lights on it, and the lights are terrible! I do not look forward to having one these installed in my front yard. It's almost as if Orem has so much money it doesn't know what to do with it. I have a good idea that I'm sure never crossed their minds...take the costs of the lights, cut taxes by the same amount, and then let homeowners use what they save in taxes to light their own property if they want to (preferrably with motion sensor lights). Perhaps it's time to move out of Orem... On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:26:34 -0600 Paul Witte wrote: > Orem City has started installing their new streetlights and apparently I'm not the only one that isn't happy about it. > > This ran on the front page of the herald today: > > http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=23142&mode=thread&order=0 > > You may want to at least mention the complaints Orem is getting in your article, the lighting is HORRIBLE! I have driven by these new lights at night and the glare in your eyes makes it difficult to see the road. I've also seen that some people who have the streetlights in their front yard have hung blankets in their windows. The sad thing is there were several people from UVAA (Rich Tenney & Mark Dakins among them) who took the time to attend the city council meetings and specifically warned them about this stuff. They outright disregarded everything they said. I'm just glad I don't live in Orem anymore or I'd be investing in some black paint and/or a shotgun. > > ---------- > From: Joe Bauman > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:04 AM > To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution > > Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Dunn Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 29 Aug 2001 06:52:06 -0600 The star party at Powder Mountain is likely to become an annual event. Weber State has 2 acres of land at the top of Powder Mountain to build an observatory. When Weber County was debating a lighting ordinance for Ogden valley John Sohl attended the meeting and mentioned the observatory sight. The residents were interested in this and the lighting ordinance passed. He told them that we would hold a star party at the sight and invite them up to see it. The star party was real nice. Even with a first quarter moon, we were able to see the Milkyway. We were able to pick out the central star in the Cat's Eye and several other darksky wonders. We had 60 or 70 people come up and had at least 10 telescopes. It was real enjoyable. If anyone has a couple of million dollars that they need to part with, I am sure that John would love to build the observatory. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:42 PM Perhaps we should celebrate some of the successes we have had in Utah. Last weekend the Ogden Astronomical Society sponsored a star party at a Weber County ski resort (sorry, I can't remember which one.) to help say thanks for the new lighting and anti light pollution laws passed in Weber County. There is some headway being made! Joe, Sandy City decided to install new lighting also. When I fly at night, it is VERY easy to see where the city boundary is. The city of Sandy is significantly brighter than the communities to the north. It should be very easy to get an arial photo that shows the difference. Brent - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steinicke, Brett" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 29 Aug 2001 10:24:41 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13096.579C1900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You gotta mention the IDA: http://www.darksky.org/ida/index.html ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13096.579C1900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution
You gotta mention the IDA:
http://www.darksky.org/ida/index.html

------_=_NextPart_001_01C13096.579C1900-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 29 Aug 2001 08:32:59 -0600 Exactly! -- jb - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Witte Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:54:24 -0600 ------ =_NextPart_000_01C13081.5E655C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Did you read some of the comments people had entered about that article? = I think it certainly proves Chuck's view of the attitudes of Utahns. = Pretty pathetic. General attitude of, "So you don't like the new = lights, then move!". =20 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:50 PM I second this opinion. I live not far from a street that has these new = lights on it, and the lights are terrible! I do not look forward to = having one these installed in my front yard. It's almost as if Orem has = so much money it doesn't know what to do with it. I have a good idea = that I'm sure never crossed their minds...take the costs of the lights, = cut taxes by the same amount, and then let homeowners use what they save = in taxes to light their own property if they want to (preferrably with = motion sensor lights). Perhaps it's time to move out of Orem... On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:26:34 -0600 Paul Witte wrote: > Orem City has started installing their new streetlights and apparently = I'm not the only one that isn't happy about it. =20 >=20 > This ran on the front page of the herald today: >=20 > = http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=3D23142&mode=3Dthread&order=3D= 0 >=20 > You may want to at least mention the complaints Orem is getting in = your article, the lighting is HORRIBLE! I have driven by these new = lights at night and the glare in your eyes makes it difficult to see the = road. I've also seen that some people who have the streetlights in = their front yard have hung blankets in their windows. The sad thing is = there were several people from UVAA (Rich Tenney & Mark Dakins among = them) who took the time to attend the city council meetings and = specifically warned them about this stuff. They outright disregarded = everything they said. I'm just glad I don't live in Orem anymore or I'd = be investing in some black paint and/or a shotgun. >=20 > ---------- > From: Joe Bauman > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:04 AM > To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution >=20 > Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe >=20 >=20 >=20 > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to = "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. >=20 - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to = "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------ =_NextPart_000_01C13081.5E655C20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiERAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAYAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHV0YWgtYXN0cm9ub215 QGxpc3RzLnhtaXNzaW9uLmNvbQBTTVRQAHV0YWgtYXN0cm9ub215QGxpc3RzLnhtaXNzaW9uLmNv bQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIgAAAHV0YWgtYXN0cm9ub215QGxpc3Rz LnhtaXNzaW9uLmNvbQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACQAAAAndXRhaC1hc3Ryb25v bXlAbGlzdHMueG1pc3Npb24uY29tJwACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOlVUQUgtQVNUUk9OT01ZQExJ U1RTLlhNSVNTSU9OLkNPTQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAITTwEEgAEA JQAAAFJFOiAodXRhaC1hc3Ryb25vbXkpIGxpZ2h0IHBvbGx1dGlvbgBLDQEFgAMADgAAANEHCAAd AAsANgAYAAMAWQEBIIADAA4AAADRBwgAHQALADMANQADAHMBAQmAAQAhAAAANkY5NDgwOTkzQ0Qz QzI0N0EwN0ZDNjY3MTk0Q0M2Q0MARAcBA5AGAAQJAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAA AAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBA/2ajszDBAR4AcAABAAAAJQAAAFJFOiAodXRhaC1hc3Ry b25vbXkpIGxpZ2h0IHBvbGx1dGlvbgAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABwTCzo2a9HarmTPtNhqbJvb/n J+oZAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAAHF1ZXN0b3J0QGhvbWUuY29tAAAA AwAGEPO5bzkDAAcQKwgAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAERJRFlPVVJFQURTT01FT0ZUSEVDT01NRU5UU1BF T1BMRUhBREVOVEVSRURBQk9VVFRIQVRBUlRJQ0xFP0lUSElOS0lUQ0VSVEFJTkxZUFJPVkVTQ0hV Q0tTVklFV09GVEhFQVQAAAAAAgEJEAEAAABqBwAAZgcAAKwNAABMWkZ1jrNMdQMACgByY3BnMTI1 /jIA/wIGAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldP4yBgAGwwKDDlAD1QcTAoO6MxPNfQqACM8J2TsW v70OMDUCgAqBDnELYG4OELwwMxTgCwoTsgwBYwBAQCBEaWQgeQhgIBUWwGEbwHMDcGUgb7BmIHRo HKAFoG0HgOMCMAQgcGVvC1AcoBKA7xvAHXEEkAmAIAGgCGAFQG0c8GEFQArAdA3gHgA/GCAgSRzh C4BrIGmdBUBjBJABkAuAbHkdsAUDYHYHkUNodWNr+icEIHYIkAfgHMUfcB/AXHR1DnAEIBzBVQGQ aPUAgC4gIFAWwAJAIXEfcPcdAB/BJHFHCfAEkAdAIzdBHLEsICJTbxvTZMUCICcFQGxpaxygHPLn JeAH4CfwZ2gdkCbwHPHnA6AEYCHAISIkcQqFCosRJ/AxODAC0WktMTw0NA6wDNAsAwtZMTbXCqAD YB6QYwVALS4nCofXLNsMMC2mRgNhOi8uLaZPDIIh8QUQBCBSdQQQZfxsbC7PL90GYAIwMQ8yG0JU ClBzZGF5JvBBzHVnM1AFQDI4JvAB0EIwG4A5OjUwJJBN8zO/L91UbzX/MhsfICQwLC1hOKADYG4D cHlApyfwOKAkYHhtBAFpAiCOLh0xOd80znViai3hUzv/MhtSZUJQKD3cKf8otB2wBvAKQB/AAiAq Lysz/DM2LKcU4gwBLaYgQBKw3QWgbhvAIGEjwXALgD9ynyAiJ/AhwChwLcAgZgrB/wNSHuAcYD5A CeAfNRKABCD/HPESsCh5HLADoCDAJvAAcP9J4hygTfUKwCghBJAFEAJg3ynAICInkEtTFlBvIKAC EPxydwsRHOAnMBKAIoAZwP9OUSgjTYELgDigB0AeABvA/wuAKYAhcANRAjAb0AsRSsJ+dCJRB0AE YDihTSEGkCB+TxbATBBNEhxwKYAiIGh/KYEl4CFwIMEnkAeQJ7Jr+z5wB+B3H2JSEVDRA/Ac8M8g sUrDUkEjISBnUVBT0acOcEwwH1NJJ0wQcwhwfyhiIcAFwAUAVaASsE7zaf8FwD8wSdAkYF2gAZAo FQWglz7hHLYoxmMfImF4B5HmYiFwHPJzYRyRYNAIYP8CME63A6AeAEzxHIFYgCXh/wQgM1AcoFi0 HQAhcGDASzH/U/Ff9FIRRYRc9GKhIYIdwH8AIFeRHNMhcFHAVIFSESj/IZAOgFARAaAhYVljBGBG Mk9JgQCABbEoxCkuRnxQ+wSQEoBwVfFVMh/AHJFSEX8pkhywHyEcwVZCXaFGfE93A6A30TjxODhS OQQOIDqgMjY6MzQuEDBH4NEKdlBhdQMgVyDAHpC4IDxxN+FSEAAgQGJi7T+iPligLbI6RnxysFZD /kMgwCFwVpMBkAAgU8NTc/9Sclz0KIJMVE9WSdFrMAqx/x1xIWFbgktiHPICICFhUrTvH3EEACey ayFwIXAe9Fmz+3Onc6dUShImAAOgTmEc8vtUVAqwZxynHQAmAVHyOBEHcyZ8KSjwdHA6Ly/qd4FQ LhKBaxzxfvQ/ooIvH6UucGhwPwCQkGQ9MjMsADImBGK2PRzwHCImBbAEgT0Kdv18KVkb8QDAZvgf cR4APiH/KYAdcWjiHPULUx2RVkMzEf9+UCNRUoFT8RvhBcAfpSkjByi0iiMEIEhPUlJJ2EJMRVCD WiNkBRAhwH8DoGBUTYwfcQMARaJO1mf/C2BP0YpmV4AHkQDAKBBrUu8ngAaQK9BfsGxY4xKwKCTX A2AcQErCJ1pCbFbRkuH/fXIfcRxzHcVYsFIjKCR26/9kQl0DVFhaFCIQUoECYABw/ygQl0oD8EnQ WIAkYnzQYKLvSeOMFBzxT9F3nEISsFwxhyYRHcVL41VWQUFEYLZSDeBXMFQJ8FdyJgXQv4GhG5Bd 4FNRYQJ2FG1FYP+V0lIQUWEc8mvGI0EJ8E70/mN0kgWgYUCi0AMgB4AlUfsZwHeUcx3AotCSQVOR ZvK/BKBcxEwRHwUzETigdQ6Qv5rkeZEfIAUQRaKSEHMWwO5nCxEewVwieZuUY6UbsPuTo0wQajiS kFEbwFCyJ7T/ZBRWQwBwBsAFsByhBcBbgP0bwGJTMiHBihYcc5lRIjB3JQGJEU7CLwWxTDFiYHR/ OIA/kIVPLh90ATDFMqJK+VfwIEJw8AOBc6c1tTef0ziqGeA6MHAAQTnGfLH/O+I9nz6vP7i0kUH3 Q/9FD/9GG3wrmXEpESIDUICxoLOwf3HBJvCzgb5fwa+xgXOnIP5WBAAgwRzyJBIUMLj2BdD3B5Bg wH5RQpNwCyB/uIDWgnBB8DYxLmV6BuD7VMKCcmK4krjnw3g70LiA/wCAQfAE8q1hS+O4nCbwaSG/ HtEDoFZgC3ADIFIRIgDApmqE0QNwb0C56iLDeO1ZYyLKaricIpdlYEAEcP95kRzUB4HF0rB/CoUu tsQP/8UfxivHH8gvyTvKL8s/zE//zV/Ob8+f0K/Rv9LPR08ayBctpgqFFeEA57AAAAMAEBAAAAAA AwAREAEAAABAAAcwABuaSbMwwQFAAAgwABuaSbMwwQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9 NwAAMRk= ------ =_NextPart_000_01C13081.5E655C20-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Russell" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 29 Aug 2001 12:25:48 -0600 (MDT) On the other hand, there were many comments on the site that were encouraging. You know, I can't really blame those who are upset at those that don't like the lights. Sometimes in our society it seems that there is a group against anything anyone tries to do. Someone ought to just form a "Coalition Against Everything" group and merge all the various groups together. Right now, to them, those of us against these ghastly lights probably look like just another "Coalition Against Anything" group. One of our challenges is to convince them otherwise, that our views have merits beyond just a whim. I know there have been many that have tried. It seems, according to the comments posted on this list over the last day or so, that there have been some successes. Unfortunately for now, Orem has been an abysmal failure and an example of what should be prevented from happening elsewhere. > Did you read some of the comments people had entered about that > article? I think it certainly proves Chuck's view of the attitudes of > Utahns. Pretty pathetic. General attitude of, "So you don't like the > new lights, then move!". > > ---------- > From: Chris Russell > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:50 PM > To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution > > I second this opinion. I live not far from a street that has these new > lights on it, and the lights are terrible! I do not look forward to > having one these installed in my front yard. It's almost as if Orem > has so much money it doesn't know what to do with it. I have a good > idea that I'm sure never crossed their minds...take the costs of the > lights, cut taxes by the same amount, and then let homeowners use what > they save in taxes to light their own property if they want to > (preferrably with motion sensor lights). > > Perhaps it's time to move out of Orem... > > On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:26:34 -0600 > Paul Witte wrote: > >> Orem City has started installing their new streetlights and apparently >> I'm not the only one that isn't happy about it. >> >> This ran on the front page of the herald today: >> >> http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=23142&mode=thread&order=0 >> >> You may want to at least mention the complaints Orem is getting in >> your article, the lighting is HORRIBLE! I have driven by these new >> lights at night and the glare in your eyes makes it difficult to see >> the road. I've also seen that some people who have the streetlights >> in their front yard have hung blankets in their windows. The sad >> thing is there were several people from UVAA (Rich Tenney & Mark >> Dakins among them) who took the time to attend the city council >> meetings and specifically warned them about this stuff. They outright >> disregarded everything they said. I'm just glad I don't live in Orem >> anymore or I'd be investing in some black paint and/or a shotgun. >> >> ---------- >> From: Joe Bauman >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:04 AM >> To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution >> >> Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe >> >> >> >> - >> Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: >> http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy >> To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to >> "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the >> body of the message. >> > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to > "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body > of the message. - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steinicke, Brett" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 29 Aug 2001 15:18:36 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C130BF.66869F70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I tallied the results they are: 1-Move to a farm 3-For street lights 9-Against 2-Complaining about something else Brett > -----Original Message----- > From: questort@home.com [mailto:questort@home.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:54 AM > To: 'utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution > > Did you read some of the comments people had entered about that article? > I think it certainly proves Chuck's view of the attitudes of Utahns. > Pretty pathetic. General attitude of, "So you don't like the new lights, > then move!". > > ---------- > From: Chris Russell > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:50 PM > To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution > > I second this opinion. I live not far from a street that has these > new lights on it, and the lights are terrible! I do not look forward to > having one these installed in my front yard. It's almost as if Orem has > so much money it doesn't know what to do with it. I have a good idea that > I'm sure never crossed their minds...take the costs of the lights, cut > taxes by the same amount, and then let homeowners use what they save in > taxes to light their own property if they want to (preferrably with motion > sensor lights). > > Perhaps it's time to move out of Orem... > > On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:26:34 -0600 > Paul Witte wrote: > > > Orem City has started installing their new streetlights and > apparently I'm not the only one that isn't happy about it. > > > > This ran on the front page of the herald today: > > > > > http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=23142&mode=thread&order=0 > > > > You may want to at least mention the complaints Orem is getting in > your article, the lighting is HORRIBLE! I have driven by these new lights > at night and the glare in your eyes makes it difficult to see the road. > I've also seen that some people who have the streetlights in their front > yard have hung blankets in their windows. The sad thing is there were > several people from UVAA (Rich Tenney & Mark Dakins among them) who took > the time to attend the city council meetings and specifically warned them > about this stuff. They outright disregarded everything they said. I'm > just glad I don't live in Orem anymore or I'd be investing in some black > paint and/or a shotgun. > > > > ---------- > > From: Joe Bauman > > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:04 AM > > To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution > > > > Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, Joe > > > > > > > > - > > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to > "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C130BF.66869F70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution

I = tallied the results they are:

 1-Move to a farm
 3-For street lights
 9-Against   
 2-Complaining about something else

Brett

     -----Original Message-----
    From:   questort@home.com [mailto:questort@home.com]
    Sent:   = Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:54 = AM
    To:     'utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com'
    Subject:        RE: (utah-astronomy) light = pollution

    Did you read some of = the comments people had entered about that article?  I think it = certainly proves Chuck's view of the attitudes of Utahns.  Pretty = pathetic.  General attitude of, "So you don't like the new = lights, then move!". 

      ----------
      From:   = Chris Russell
      Sent:   = Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:50 = PM
      To: =     utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com
      Subject: =        Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution

      I second this opinion.  I live = not far from a street that has these new lights on it, and the lights = are terrible!  I do not look forward to having one these installed = in my front yard.  It's almost as if Orem has so much money it = doesn't know what to do with it.  I have a good idea that I'm sure = never crossed their minds...take the costs of the lights, cut taxes by = the same amount, and then let homeowners use what they save in taxes to = light their own property if they want to (preferrably with motion = sensor lights).

      Perhaps it's time to move out of = Orem...

      On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:26:34 = -0600
      Paul Witte <questort@home.com> = wrote:

      > Orem City has started installing = their new streetlights and apparently I'm not the only one that isn't = happy about it. 

      >
      > This ran on the front page of = the herald today:
      >
      > http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=3D23142&m= ode=3Dthread&order=3D0
      >
      > You may want to at least mention = the complaints Orem is getting in your article, the lighting is = HORRIBLE!  I have driven by these new lights at night and the = glare in your eyes makes it difficult to see the road.  I've also = seen that some people who have the streetlights in their front yard = have hung blankets in their windows.  The sad thing is there were = several people from UVAA (Rich Tenney & Mark Dakins among them) who = took the time to attend the city council meetings and specifically = warned them about this stuff.  They outright disregarded = everything they said.  I'm just glad I don't live in Orem anymore = or I'd be investing in some black paint and/or a shotgun.

      >
      > ----------
      > From: =         Joe Bauman
      > Sent: =         Tuesday, August 28, 2001 = 10:04 AM
      > To:   = utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com
      > Subject: =      Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution
      >
      > Thanks, Chuck! -- Best, = Joe
      >
      >
      >
      > -
      >  Visit the Utah Astronomy = Message Board:
      >  http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy
      >  To unsubscribe from = utah-astronomy, send an email to = "majordomo@xmission.com"
      >  with "unsubscribe = utah-astronomy" in the body of the message.
      >

      -
       Visit the Utah Astronomy = Message Board:
       http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy
       To unsubscribe from = utah-astronomy, send an email to = "majordomo@xmission.com"
       with "unsubscribe = utah-astronomy" in the body of the message.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C130BF.66869F70-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Karen Pierce Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution California Date: 29 Aug 2001 13:55:28 -0600 Here is a great article that speaks of energy saving. http://www.energy.ca.gov/efficiency/lighting/outdoor_reduction.html REDUCTION OF OUTDOOR LIGHTING On February 1, 2001, Governor Davis issued Executive Order D-19-01 stating, "substantial amounts of electricity are consumed through unnecessary outdoor lighting by retail establishments after business hours, including but not limited to, shopping centers, auto malls and dealerships." The Executive Order requires retail business to substantially reduce unnecessary outdoor lighting wattage during non-business hours. Reporting Possible Violations Possible violations of the Governor's Executive Order should be made to your local law enforcement agency such as local police or sheriff's department. Please do NOT use 9-1-1 for reporting violations. Instead, check the pages in the front of your phone book and use the non-emergency phone numbers of your local law enforcement agency. Strategies Developed by the Energy Commission These are provided as examples of measures that businesses may want to consider to maintain illumination necessary for the safety of the public, employees, and property, while reducing total electrical usage. There are four ways in which light (therefore energy) is wasted: 1. To have non-essential lighting energized especially after hours. Controls can greatly reduce the amount of energy consumed by exterior lighting. 2. Using energy inefficient equipment. 3. Sending light up into the atmosphere either by direct light or by reflected light. By using completely shielded (or IESNA full cutoff) area or wall-mounted luminaires, light goes down instead of up. 4. Over lighting. Not only does over lighting waste energy, it may create light adaptation hazards. Quality exterior lighting involves selecting the correct equipment for the project, not over lighting, providing uniform lighting for security reasons, and minimizing the glare (non-productive light). Examples of Measures The following examples are measures that businesses may consider to maintain illumination levels necessary for the safety of the public, employees, and property, while reducing total electrical usage. Evaluate existing exterior lighting systems and identify non-critical lighting. Clearly label all switching devices to save time and help employees identify which lights should be shut-off at specific times. Use only energy efficient lamp technologies wherever possible such as metal halide, induction lamps, high-pressure sodium, and linear and compact fluorescent sources. Avoid using fluorescent sources that are not suited for low temperature operation in cold climate zones. Avoid using mercury vapor lighting systems. Incandescent sources should be avoided unless they are integrated with a control mechanism that significantly limits the time that they operate. Use IESNA recommended light level ranges. Use the lower recommended values in order lower energy usage, yet stay within recommended values. Abnormally bright lights can create glare and deep shadows, which can make seeing extremely difficult. Illumination ratios between areas should be minimal (e.g., less than 10:1) Locate outdoor lighting where it is needed. For example, locate outdoor lighting below tree canopies, not above. In parking lots, use efficient and cutoff lighting fixtures that emit no light above the horizontal or into the sky, fixtures that emit no more than 2.5 percent of the lamp lumens upward. Use cutoff lighting fixtures for all lamps greater than 2800 lumens. This will minimize wasted light going up into the atmosphere. In signage and retail, use color contrast to attract attention, rather than high levels of illumination. Provide reflective surfaces for lettering or other elements that need to be illuminated at night and illuminate only the lettering, not the background. Lighting Controls There are a number of excellent automatic lighting controls that may be used to turn off exterior lights when appropriate: 1. Daylight controls, or photo sensors, used to turn off lights whenever adequate daylight is available. 2. Energy management systems and timeclocks, used to limit lighting to within certain operating hours. 3. Timer switches, used to turn on lights for only short duration. 4. Motion sensors, used to either turn on lights, or turn up lights that have been dimmed, whenever an occupant is present. Examples of possible uses of lighting controls Evaluate and set specific outdoor lighting, as appropriate, to automatically lower or turn off after the close of business to the public, and/or after all employees have left the premises. After business hours, lower light levels to minimal levels, just enough to detect movement and provide sufficient security. Use timers, motion sensors, or an energy management system to turn-off or reduce lighting. Some security lighting can be activated with motion sensors so that lights come on only when someone is in the immediate area (consult with local law enforcement). Energy efficient lamp sources ideal for motion sensors include fluorescent and induction lamps. When using "on-off" motion sensors for security lighting, avoid the use of sources that require a period of time to achieve full brightness (HID sources such as Metal Halide or High Pressure Sodium). Incandescent sources can also be an effective source for this type of application since it will only operate a limited time and is not sensitive to temperature effects. HID sources can work well in conjunction with motion sensors that offer two levels of lighting (also called stepped ballasts or hi-lo). In these applications, the low level light is provided when no motion is detected. When the motion sensor detects motion, it triggers the lighting to go to the high light level. The hi-lo lighting may be appropriate in parking lots, parking structures, and in areas where safety and security are important. Turn off display, advertising, and specialty lights after retail hours (for example after mid-night). Other Information The Lighting for Exterior Environments, PR-33-99 by the Illuminating Engineering Society of North America is one of the most helpful publications on exterior lighting. It can be ordered from their website www.iesna.org or by calling 212-248-5000, extenion 112. Please be sure to refer to publication number RP-33-99. Cost is around $45. You can also find a wealth of free information on California International Darksky Association website at www.skykeepers.org/index.html. Here you'll find suggested lighting ordinances, actual ordinances, and examples of good and bad outdoor lighting. A National Equipment Manufacturers Association (NEMA) white paper includes information about common practices on outdoor lighting and how to prevent outdoor lighting problems. The paper can be found at: http://www.nema.org/products/div2/white_papers.html. The Advanced Lighting Guidelines report from the California Energy Commission is still in draft stage and not ready for public release. When it is ready, it will be available from this page. For more information about reducing outdoor lighting, please contact: California Energy Commission Energy Efficiency and Demand Analysis Division Nonresidential Buildings Office 1516 Ninth Street, MS-26 Sacramento, CA 95814 Gary Flamm 916-654-2817 Maziar Shirakh 916-654-3839 - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Karen Pierce Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution - Alberta Date: 29 Aug 2001 13:55:38 -0600 CALGARY TO OVERHAUL LIGHTING Even the self-proclaimed "Energy Capital of Canada" is feeling the recent power crunch. On July 23rd the city council in Calgary, Alberta, approved funding to retrofit all 49,000 cobra-head residential streetlights from 200-watt, drop-dish fixtures to 100-watt, flat-lens fixtures. The current lights send some rays horizontally and even up toward the sky, but the new full-cutoff lights will redirect all light toward the ground, allowing the city to maintain acceptable illumination levels despite the reduced bulb wattage. "This is just the first step," says Alderman Bev Longstaff, who proposed the retrofit. She plans to pursue an anti-light-pollution law that will cover not only the city-owned lights but residential and commercial fixtures as well. Alberta, like California, recently deregulated its power industry. "Energy costs have gone up considerably," reports S&T contributing editor (and Calgary resident) Alan Dyer. Ironically, the Calgary economy is booming as a result -- most of Canada's leading oil and natural gas producers, as well as Canada's largest coal exporter, are headquartered in the city. But the growth has strained the existing power plants, and while there have been no blackouts or brownouts yet, Dyer fears they will soon occur. Calgary's decision is unique among recent light-pollution initiatives. It calls for the changing of all residential street lighting immediately; most cities replace their fixtures gradually, as the old ones malfunction. But what the city spends now it will recover later -- government officials project that each year Calgary can expect to save $2.1 million Canadian ($1.4 million US) in electricity. Even if energy prices drop to their previous levels, it will take only 6.5 years to recoup the project's $7.8 million ($5.2 million US) cost. Here is the article: =20 http://www.recorder.ca/cp/national/010805/n080510A.html = =20 Calgary to dim streetlights after astronomers complain night sky obscured=20 CAROL HARRINGTON CALGARY (CP) - Canada's energy capital is dimming its bulbs after complaints from star-gazers that the big city's bright lights make it impossible to=20 eyeball the Milky Way and other celestial wonders.=20 "Kids are growing up completely cut off from that part of the environment=20 and never see the stars that inspire wonder, awe, curiosity and amazement,"= =20 said Alan Dyer, a Calgary astronomer who has been after politicians for=20 years to turn down the city's lights. "As you drive toward Calgary, you=20 can see its dome of light illuminating from at least 100 miles away."=20 Last week, city council voted to dim 49,000 street light bulbs from 200=20 watts to 100 - a move that will cost $7.8 million but will conserve energy,= =20 save money and reduce carbon dioxide from the gas and coal burned to produce= =20 the volts.=20 It's a radical step for Calgary, a city that during the oil boom of the=20 1970s cranked up the wattage to make night as light as day in an effort to thwart crime.=20 "In those days, energy was not an issue," said city councillor Bev Longstaff, who has introduced a bylaw to reduce Calgary's glaring problem.= =20 At night in downtown Calgary, it's impossible to catch a glimpse of any=20 stars against the brightly lit office buildings. Photographs from space show= =20 the city as a bright, fluorescent blob surrounded by inky darkness.=20 There's even an urban myth circulating that pilots, shortly after taking off from Winnipeg, can see Calgary's glow.=20 What does seem to be true is the astronomers' claim that urbanites simply=20 like their nights light.=20 "It's primal fear of the dark and also this idea that light is good, dark=20 is bad," Dyer said.=20 "It's just this mentality where we have to pour more lights up there."=20 Sky watchers, peeved over urban light refracting in their telescopes, say=20 it's more than just an inconvenience, it's light pollution.=20 "It's like noise pollution, but instead of loud noise, there's too much=20 light that is extremely distracting, sometimes blinding," said Bob King, chairman of the local light pollution committee for the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada.=20 Dyer agreed.=20 "It's my sky as well, not just your sky," he said. "You're ruining my environment and there should be recourse to that."=20 Many municipal politicians across Canada are considering passing a bylaw=20 to limit the amount of light spilling into their night skies - and are=20 watching Calgary with interest.=20 "With electricity becoming much more expensive in Canada, there is now=20 financial incentive for politicians to try to reduce their lighting,"=20 King said.=20 "There's been a drive in the (United States) for years because electricity= =20 has been so expensive there."=20 King points out the International Dark-Sky Association estimated in the mid-1990s that about one-third of all man-made night light in North America shines directly into the night sky at a cost of more than $1 billion.=20 In Edmonton, traffic lights using 14 watts of power, instead of the usual=20 150 watts, are being installed.=20 "With the Kyoto agreement, municipalities are having to do their part in addressing greenhouse gas emissions," said Don MacDonald, general supervisor of signals and street lighting in Edmonton.=20 =A9 The Canadian Press, 2001 - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Observatory re: Dave Dunn's comment Date: 29 Aug 2001 13:13:38 -0700 (PDT) How come Dr. Sohl needs a million dollars to build an observatory, and SLAS can do it for less than 1/20 of that sum? Property acquisition? Or is he thinking of something considerably larger than a scope in the 1-meter class? Before any comments are made about "amateur vs. professional" quality, please see the completed mount in Bruce Grim's driveway. This telescope will be capable of serious research, and was designed by people with 4-year degrees, some are real, honest-to-god scientists and engineers, and plenty of experience. If the "million dollar" comment was hyperbole, then never mind ;) Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Dunn Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) Observatory re: Dave Dunn's comment Date: 29 Aug 2001 13:22:55 -0700 He must be thinking real big. Also, I don't think that he would have the time to get donated materials and labor. He has been tempted to try and raise enough to put an observatory, like the one he put on campus, on the site. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:14 PM How come Dr. Sohl needs a million dollars to build an observatory, and SLAS can do it for less than 1/20 of that sum? Property acquisition? Or is he thinking of something considerably larger than a scope in the 1-meter class? Before any comments are made about "amateur vs. professional" quality, please see the completed mount in Bruce Grim's driveway. This telescope will be capable of serious research, and was designed by people with 4-year degrees, some are real, honest-to-god scientists and engineers, and plenty of experience. If the "million dollar" comment was hyperbole, then never mind ;) Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Wiggins Subject: (utah-astronomy) Your opinion please Date: 30 Aug 2001 14:16:47 -0600 Orion is currently selling the 150 mm (6") Dob for $380 and their 200 mm (8") Dob for $475 (prices include shipping). Is the extra light gathering ability of the larger scope worth the extra $100 for the average observer? Your opinions, please. Patrick :-) - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Your opinion please Date: 30 Aug 2001 14:04:44 -0600 Yes, I'd say. jb - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Hards Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Your opinion please Date: 30 Aug 2001 13:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Both are overpriced for what you get. Cheap melamine base, tube is too short, spider is poorly designed. Plate-glass optics, plastic altitude bearings. And rather homely in appearance. Black scopes are hard to see in the dark, and tend to get bumped more often that lighter-colored instruments, and get a lot hotter in the sun or car. (Longer cool-down time) The spring-tensioning device is a marketing gimmick that a well-designed scope does not need. Even better advice is to do a little research and build your own. I've been disappointed in Orion's line for a few years now. I know the reviewers liked it, but only compared to the competition. Sadly, there just aren't many commercial closed-tube Dobs of high quality available these days. Especially in the low-end models. Save your money for something that will appreciate in value, not lose 1/2 as soon as you purchase it. BUT, that said, and all other things being equal, ALWAYS buy the most aperture you can afford, and can physically deal with safely. My opinion only. Chuck --- Patrick Wiggins wrote: > Orion is currently selling the 150 mm (6") Dob for > $380 and their 200 mm (8") > Dob for $475 (prices include shipping). > > Is the extra light gathering ability of the larger > scope worth the extra $100 > for the average observer? > > Your opinions, please. > > Patrick :-) > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Howard W. Jackman" Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Your opinion please Date: 30 Aug 2001 20:53:38 +0000 I think it's worth it! Of course I think it's worth the price to go one step further and buy the 10", I was able to do a side by side comparison at a star party last year of a 6", 8", and 10" all pointed at M-13, the differences were very telling, with the 10" giving a spectacular view, the 8" a very nice view, and the 6" left me wanting to look through the 8" and 10" again. :-) However for a beginner either one would be worth it, I started out with a measely 60mm!! That extra $100 could be spent getting one or two higher end plossls as well. JMHO Howard >From: Patrick Wiggins >Orion is currently selling the 150 mm (6") Dob for $380 and their 200 mm >(8") >Dob for $475 (prices include shipping). > >Is the extra light gathering ability of the larger scope worth the extra >$100 >for the average observer? > >Your opinions, please. > >Patrick :-) > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Dunn Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) Your opinion please Date: 30 Aug 2001 15:00:24 -0600 I think that it is worth the money. I like to look at the dim Galaxies and Nebulas. Also, according to Brent Watson's spread sheet, the light gathering power of the 6" is 497. The light gathering power of the 8" is 901. Dave -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:17 PM Orion is currently selling the 150 mm (6") Dob for $380 and their 200 mm (8") Dob for $475 (prices include shipping). Is the extra light gathering ability of the larger scope worth the extra $100 for the average observer? Your opinions, please. Patrick :-) - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brent Watson" Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Your opinion please Date: 30 Aug 2001 16:54:39 -0700 Absolutely! bw ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:16 PM > Orion is currently selling the 150 mm (6") Dob for $380 and their 200 mm (8") > Dob for $475 (prices include shipping). > > Is the extra light gathering ability of the larger scope worth the extra $100 > for the average observer? > > Your opinions, please. > > Patrick :-) > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 31 Aug 2001 10:54:50 -0600 Chris, just to make sure I have it right: You live in Orem, correct? thanks, Joe - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 31 Aug 2001 11:38:48 -0600 Dear friends: Please tell me towns to list for these folks who may be quoted in my story on Monday: Brent Watson, Chris Russell, Paul Witte (Orem?), Deloy and Karen Price (Farmington?), Chuck Hards (still West Valley City?), Brett Steinicke, Richard Tenney. PS: Also, I have no idea if space limitations wil get in thw way of my using as many quotes as I'd like. Thanks, Joe Bauman - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steinicke, Brett" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:20:08 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13249.906E3E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kaysville for me, Chuck it's darker up here than WVC. Brett -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:39 AM Dear friends: Please tell me towns to list for these folks who may be quoted in my story on Monday: Brent Watson, Chris Russell, Paul Witte (Orem?), Deloy and Karen Price (Farmington?), Chuck Hards (still West Valley City?), Brett Steinicke, Richard Tenney. PS: Also, I have no idea if space limitations wil get in thw way of my using as many quotes as I'd like. Thanks, Joe Bauman - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13249.906E3E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution

Kaysville for me, Chuck it's darker up here than = WVC.

Brett

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bauman [mailto:bau@desnews.com]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:39 AM
To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) light pollution


Dear friends: Please tell me towns to list for these = folks who may be
quoted in my story on Monday: Brent Watson, Chris = Russell, Paul Witte
(Orem?), Deloy and Karen Price (Farmington?), Chuck = Hards (still West
Valley City?), Brett Steinicke, Richard Tenney. PS: = Also, I have no idea if
space limitations wil get in thw way of my using as = many quotes as I'd
like. Thanks, Joe Bauman



-
 Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board:
 http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy
 To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an = email to "majordomo@xmission.com"
 with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in = the body of the message.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C13249.906E3E70-- - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Bauman Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:45:08 -0600 Can someone tell me where Brent Watson lives? I'd like to note his city in my article -- assuming it all gets in. Thanks, Joe B. - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brent Watson" Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) light pollution Date: 31 Aug 2001 17:15:04 -0700 Joe, Brent lives in Bountiful. Brent ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:45 PM > Can someone tell me where Brent Watson lives? I'd like to note his city in > my article -- assuming it all gets in. Thanks, Joe B. > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message.