From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #494 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, October 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 494 In this issue: - Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Jewish? Re: new label: nuscope Kim Sinh Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Kim So-Hee, Cecil Re: JZ and royalties Re: Jewish? Re: Kim Sinh Re: guitar albums and things Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Re: Jewish? Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Recent Goddies + female voices ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:36:11 +0300 From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Hello Dave, четверг, 8 Октябрь 1998, you wrote to me: DE> For those of you who haven't been to the Knitting Factory website in the DE> last couple of weeks, Knitting Factory Records has a sale on. It appears DE> that everything in the catalog is on sale at 3 for $25, including shipping. DE> There are also some promo CDs available with an order. I made an order and DE> received fast service, poor packing (although nothing was damaged) and DE> inexplicably, a bill for $26. I'm not inclined to argue though, because I DE> got three regular CDs and two promos in the deal. DE> Now a question. I got Zony Mash's _Brand Spankin' New_, _300_ from Briggan DE> Krause and from Prima Materia, _Albert Ayler's Bells_. Would anyone care to DE> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order? Any must-haves in the DE> catalog? Thanks. Check these great CDs. Pay maximum attention to Kazutoki Umezu and Third Person: Lucky Water with him. Braxton/Pavone: Seven Standards Thomas Chapin: Third Force, Menagerie Dreams, Plus Strings, Sky Piece Matt Darriau Paradox Trio Pachora Mario Pavone: Dancer's Tales Peep: Joy Of Being Kazutoki Umezu: Eclecticism, First Deserter Blue Dog: What Is Anything Third Person: Lucky Water Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@jazz.ru URL: http://www.jazz.ru/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:58:28 PDT From: "Dominique Leone" Subject: Jewish? Are all of the people who play in Masada groups Jewish? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:05:49 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: new label: nuscope In a message dated 10/8/98 3:53:26 PM, c123018@hotmail.com wrote: <> Marcio Mattos is a member of the unsung trio Bardo State Orchestra, in addition to being a member of Chris Burn's Ensemble, which I had the pleasure of seeing at last year's Victoriaville festival. I can't say Mattos' playing was especially memorable, but he held his own with the likes of John Butcher, John Russell, Phil Durrant, and Burn. The disc that this group released recently, _Navigations_ (Acta), is very good, although maybe lacking a bit in the fire department. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 98 15:15:24 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Kim Sinh Coupla non-zorn related questions: 1) I've been completely enjoying, for some time now, a disc called "The Art of Kim Sinh" (World Music Library, 1991). Sinh is a contemporary Vietnamese singer and guitarist, now about 68 years old, who's apparently rather popular in Vietnam. He works out of a folk tradition (Gai Luong), though I'm guessing that, to a Vietnamese, his work would sound somewhat "modern" (maybe the way Fahey's does to us Westerners). Very beautiful stuff. Does anyone know of other recordings by this guy? I've been unable to locate any. 2) The several releases I've heard from this label, World Music Library, are of exceptional quality. This, despite the fact that they often come packaged as a kind of generic sampler (ie, 'Instrumental Music of Vietnam', 'Music of Khazakstan', etc). Does this level of quality hold true for the rest of the catalogue? Any specific recommendations? Thanks, Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:29:44 -0800 From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Part of what Zorn splits with participating musicians (when the track is functionally improvised, including the game pieces) is the composer royalties, which are paid (at least in the States, but I think the formula is similar in many other countries) based on the time length of a track x number of units sold. The payment of composer's royalties is separate from any other deals about fees for sales for players, etc.; it's part of the copyright law in every country that's part of the international copyright agreement & it does get paid out of the gross, not the net. Considering that some of his discs sell pretty well, players, at least in small group recordings players, would get substantially more than session pay, which they also receive when they record. Bests, Herb "Cappy D'Angelo" wrote: >> >> >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is >> >named as the composer, he would get everything. >> >> I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember >> where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat >> years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties. This >> may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is >> really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear >> that out. Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry. > >Exactly - the musicians would certainly get a cut of "net" not "gross", >which, in the context of an independent label release, is usually >precisely $0. If the album happened to net $10,000, an artist who played >on two tracks of a 10 cut release would usually get 2% (1% per track) >at the most - $200. This is about two hours worth of a union gig. If >Zorn's musicians were getting more, I'd be very impressed.... > > >- - Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:04:25 -0400 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Kim So-Hee, Cecil I recently picked up a disc of of P'ansori music on Nonesuch that features a vocalist named Kim So-Hee and was really impressed. I'm wondering what other recordings of hers are in existence. I know Zorn's a big fan... I highly recommend any traditional Korean music!! Does anyone know if the Cecil Taylor double-LP on BYG ever got reissued onto CD? Thanks. -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:53:57 -0500 From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: JZ and royalties Cappy D'Angelo wrote: > > > > > >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is > > >named as the composer, he would get everything. > > > > I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember > > where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat > > years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties. This > > may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is > > really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear > > that out. Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry. > > Exactly - the musicians would certainly get a cut of "net" not "gross", > which, in the context of an independent label release, is usually > precisely $0. If the album happened to net $10,000, an artist who played > on two tracks of a 10 cut release would usually get 2% (1% per track) > at the most - $200. This is about two hours worth of a union gig. If > Zorn's musicians were getting more, I'd be very impressed.... I've often wondered about this in the case of JZ, since so much of his music is improvised by the players, and Ive heard from one somewhat irate JZ collaborator who thought that his(and the other bandmembers) contributions amounted to composition, and credit due, which was not forthcoming. Cultural imperialism, I believe was the term this person used. Other than that, I have no specific knowledge of what or how JZ pays people, but I can speak to the general situation with indie releases. In the case of a record that is issued under the artists name, with the artist listed as composer of record, The musicians have no stake in the recording, or in the publishing rights, unless the artist specificly assigns them some portion. Not a likely scenario. I cant help but think that this could be a logistical nightmare for an artist. Its Hard to imagine JZ doing the work of a dozen Harry Fox agency accountants just to pay out dozens(hundreds?) of $3.58 checks every six months. What would happen if all his past collaborators requested an audit? When would he have time to write 200+Masada compositions? Of course, none of this precludes less formal arrangements. Perhaps someone here has the definitive answer...... - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:34:52 EDT From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: Re: Jewish? i would have no idea about the denomination of his players, but i am genuinly curious about the implication and reason for your question, and actually think it's one of the better ones i've come across here. care to elaborate? clint - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:57:06 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Kim Sinh brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > 1) I've been completely enjoying, for some time now, a disc called > "The Art of Kim Sinh" (World Music Library, 1991). Sinh is a > contemporary Vietnamese singer and guitarist, now about 68 years old, > who's apparently rather popular in Vietnam. He works out of a folk > tradition (Gai Luong), though I'm guessing that, to a Vietnamese, his > work would sound somewhat "modern" (maybe the way Fahey's does to us > Westerners). Ironically, it was Jim O'Rourke, one of those most responsible for the Fahey resurgence, who urged me to check out that Kim Sinh disc. I don't know if Sinh has anything else readily available in the U.S., but at least this one disc should be readily available to the curious. > 2) The several releases I've heard from this label, World Music > Library, are of exceptional quality. This, despite the fact that they > often come packaged as a kind of generic sampler (ie, 'Instrumental > Music of Vietnam', 'Music of Khazakstan', etc). Does this level of > quality hold true for the rest of the catalogue? Any specific > recommendations? The quality across the board is excellent, and because I worked at Koch (World Music Library's distributor) for several years, I've actually heard nearly all of the first 175 releases (I think there are now over 200). Each of them has something to recommend it, and many of them have curiously translated notes that lead to some exceptionally screwy phraseology (even on the front cover blurbs). The one WML that is truly a steady part of my life is 5192, "Chitti Babu, The Art of Vina II," an incredibly beautiful album of South Indian karnatic music by a composer named Tyagaraja, who is considered the "Beethoven of South India" according to the notes. Chitti Babu is a virtuosic player on the vina, which sounds to me to be a baritone sitar-like instrument, and the music is simply divine. I'm no expert in Indian music in general but this is one of my favorite albums of any style... of course, I most frequently use it for background, but it can be listened to attentively as well, natrually. Interestingly enough, the cover blurb states that Chitti Babu's phenomenal technique "has given birth to new styles such as octave and harmonic playing" which leads me to believe that Babu, like Fahey and Sinh, is someone who is subverting and expanding traditional music from the inside out, rather than vice versa. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:41:50 +0000 From: "Charles Gillett" Subject: Re: guitar albums and things On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:05:13 -0500, "Landon Thorpe" wrote: > Here are a few good ones: [...] > Jim O'Rourke/K.K. Null--New Kind of Water (np, btw; should be called New > Kind of Noisy) Can you tell me more about this album? I haven't been able to find a track list or any information on it; is there any indication why it's named after a This Heat song? > On other recent subjects: > Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the > Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc? I've seen it around, but haven't gotten it. What is the point of this series, anyway? The split-LP format isn't very appealing. This week's purchases have all been Albert Ayler CDs, except for the Alan Silva ESP disc. I doubt anyone here who already listens to Ayler hasn't gotten the Greenwich Village set, so I won't bother recommending it. - -- Charles - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:59:42 -0700 From: cd Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) I was referring to royalties in respect of performance. The mandatory fees in respect of composition are often called the "performance right" (not to be confused with performer's rights). For example, when something is played on the radio, the composer gets a royalty. When a composer's work is recorded, the maker of the recording pays a flat fee per track per copy (unless the track is very short or part of a medley) which was about seven cents (on units-not sale price) the last time I paid it (this is often split between composer(s) and publisher 50/50). It's interesting that he gives everyone composition credit on the improvised works. Copyright law would traditionally say there is no copyright in improvised works themselves as they don't meet the fixation requirement... On just about every Zorn album I own, Zorn claims "all music composed and arranged by John Zorn" or "all music by John Zorn". A curious exception is Angelus Novus which seems to be silent on the issue (I couldn't find anything) though the score for "Carny" reads (c) 1992 TOMO (BMI). The Masada disks and first Naked City disk are also TOMO (BMI). Thus, it appears that in all these cases the royalties are payable to Tzadik (Zorn), TOMO (Zorn), or BMI for TOMO (Zorn) and any monies payable to the musicians are not by copyright law but by contract between Zorn and those individuals. I'll try to ask BMI who they send the royalties to. Better yet I'll try to ask Zorn when he comes to Seattle next month. What does the Filmworks in question (#1?) say - is the guitarist given composer credit? Considering how well and how often the musicians play for Zorn, and how highly they speak of him, he must be paying them well. Either that or they are all hipnotized with Cobra flashcards (except Trey S.) after which time Zorn communicates telepathically. That is the only way to explain how tight Naked City was... - -cd Herb Levy wrote: > > Part of what Zorn splits with participating musicians (when the track is > functionally improvised, including the game pieces) is the composer > royalties, which are paid (at least in the States, but I think the formula > is similar in many other countries) based on the time length of a track x > number of units sold. The payment of composer's royalties is separate from > any other deals about fees for sales for players, etc.; it's part of the > copyright law in every country that's part of the international copyright > agreement & it does get paid out of the gross, not the net. > > Considering that some of his discs sell pretty well, players, at least in > small group recordings players, would get substantially more than session > pay, which they also receive when they record. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:31:56 -0700 From: cd Subject: Re: Jewish? I've wondered also. For several years I played in a few "Reggae" bands. Although some of the members were Rastafarians, most weren't. Those who weren't black Rasatarians (ie those who were not black, those who were not black and claimed to be Rastafarians, and those who were black but weren't Rastafarians) were often openly criticized by Rastafarians who profess that if you are not a Rastafarian you should not play Reggae. This is because Reggae is the music of the Rastafarians, and to be Rasta you must, by definition, be Black. They were most critical of the "white Rastas" as they have no reason or right to claim to be Rasta, and of the "baldheads" who were against the Rasta cause by not being with it (or so they claim). They almost had me convinced that if I insisted on skanking, I should at least not mention Jah or Babylon or Zion etc. Similarly, I felt odd singing Handel's Messiah in first year music school being an Atheist - I can't sing "Hallelujah" with the same passion as the Christians... Although I don't think any culture (whether religious, ethnic, geographic etc.) should be able to restrict the use of a series of notes or a rythmic motif, I can't help but feel that there MAY be a reasonable argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or if you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same passion (for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you define "Rasta" or "Jewish"). I should be clear that of course this could apply to any music or art which is associated with a certain culture. (Please excuse any Political Incorrectness of my post - or at least address such comments to me personally as to not waste bandwidth). Comments? What do Zorn's musicians have to say? - -cd Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com wrote: > > i would have no idea about the denomination of his players, but i am genuinly > curious about the implication and reason for your question, and actually think > it's one of the better ones i've come across here. care to elaborate? > clint > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:38:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: FJG_Lamerikx Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) > Considering how well and how often the musicians play for Zorn, and how > highly they speak of him, he must be paying them well. Either that or > they are all hipnotized with Cobra flashcards (except Trey S.) after > which time Zorn communicates telepathically. That is the only way to > explain how tight Naked City was... Why does it say "except Trey S." (S for Spruance, I presume) here? Frankco. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:20:31 +0100 From: "Felix" Subject: Recent Goddies + female voices Hello there. Just got Zorn's "The Big Gundown" really cheap (I honestly think that the people at the store made a mistake when labelling the price tag on the CD...) It's really good, kinda hard to get used to, though. It took me some hours of listening to start really appreciating the individual tracks. For those that don't have it (impossible, I know, I must have been the last guy on the list buying it), get it. It's a must have for Zorn OR Morricone fans. It presents a big bundle of musicians, like Fred Firth, Wayne Horvitz, Bill Frisell, Bobby Previte, Robert Quine, Anton Fier, Arto Lindsay, and many, many other well-know artists of the downtown scene (they're just too much to number.) My other recent goodie, on the other hand, I completely fell in love with at first listen. Following the recommendations of some people on this list, I got Charles Mingus' "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady" and must say that I am thankful we can post the off-topic post from now and then. It's a sad album, but it's also the best Mingus I have heard. And now for my question. I'm looking for some female vocalists, and am particularly interested in Shelley Hirsh and Diamanda Galas (of which i don't know anything except 'Metamorfosi' from The Big Gundown). Any reccomendations would be really appreciated. Now playing: Morricone/Zorn - "Poverty (Once upon a time in America)" Thanks Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #494 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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