From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #563 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, December 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 563 In this issue: - Re: James Tenney Ginger Baker's _No Material_ Re[2]: James Tenney/La Monte Young Re: James Tenney/La Monte Young Re: James Tenney/La Monte Young Re: Ginger Baker's _No Material_ Masada as for improv-art-saturation-and the loss of all thats fresh? Parachute Years my notable reissues of 1998 my notable records of 1998 Re: my notable records of 1998 Re: my notable records of 1998 Year's Best and then some (annotated) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:48:40 -0500 From: David Beardsley Subject: Re: James Tenney Herb Levy wrote very nice description of Tenney's work and then dropped this stunning bit of misinformation: In addition to Bridge & Flocking (both written for two pianos in just > intonation, but each instrument is out of tune from the by about a quarter > tone - all of the pitches are justly derived, so the "quarter"-tones are > not equal tempered) that Brian mentioned, Hat has a couple of forthcoming > discs listed on their sadly uninformative Web site & New Albion is > supposedly releasing something in 1999 as well. These are two different pieces. Bridging & Flocking is just the name of the CD. Bridge (1984) is tuned in 5 limit just intonation. See the tuning lattice on page 4 of the liner notes. What's neat about the tuning is that while the two pianos share some pitches, one piano has the over tones of five while the other piano has the under tones. Flocking (1993) was written 9 years later. While it too is a piece for two pianos, it is tuned for two pianos a quarter tone apart. This tuning is also known as 24 tone equal temperament, which has nothing to do with just intonation and the harmonic series. I don't know about Tenney's other work in tuning, but he isn't exactly being radical in his tunings. For example both the Deep Listening Band (7 limit?) and the Long String Instrument (13 limit) are more innovative in how they travel up the harmonic series. And they too - not as far as La Monte Young (who?), Glenn Branca, Ezra Simms, or maybe Ben Johnston, but I'm getting carried away... - -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * xouoxno@virtulink.com * * J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e * M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor * * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:47:14 -0600 (CST) From: Paul Audino Subject: Ginger Baker's _No Material_ Hello, Any opinions on this disc which features, among others, Brotzmann and Skopelitis? Happy holidays, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com GROOVE - ---------- One Nation - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 14:25:34 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: James Tenney/La Monte Young David Beardsley wrote: >And they too - not as far as La Monte Young (who?), Glenn Branca, Ezra Simms, >or maybe Ben Johnston, but I'm getting carried away... As a staunch Young advocate, perhaps you or someone else can help me over my stumbling block with him. I picked up 'The Well-Tuned Piano' back when it was first released on Gramavision (mid 80's?) and have since gotten the 'High Tension Wire..." (or whatever the complete title is) and "Just Stompin'" discs, have listened many a time and have yet to get what the hubbub is about. With WTP, I can enjoy the tunings (at least to a limited non-musician extent; I can't tell a 9-limit from a hole in the ground) but I don't hear a great deal of beautiful "music" otherwise. Obviously, one could listen to WTP the same way I can perform 4'33" on my way to work, but I imagine that's not what Mr. Young has in mind. Often, it sounds to me similar (allowing for tuning differences) to Jarrett's meanderings. A more appropriate comparison, though with different instruments, might be to David Hykes' Harmonic Choir: a fascinating technique applied to bland, newagey music. Now, I've never heard Young's music live, and can imagine that the physical sensations encountered sitting in the same space might have great effect similar to the buzzing-in-the-ears one gets at a Branca concert. But, to these buzzing ears, Branca has a lot more going on conceptually. In other words, what's there beyond the tuning? My love of, say, Partch, has much more to do with his musical conception than with a tuning system (though perhaps, one might argue that they're indistinguishable--I'm not so sure), a color in his palette. If the answer lies in mystic underpinnings that I'm not accepting, well, I'm not. But lack of agreement with an artist's philosophical/religious belief system doesn't prevent me from loving a Raphael Transfiguration, a Dostoevski novel or a Ghanaian funeral service. So, what am I missing? Ready to be pilloried, Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:19:52 -0500 From: David Beardsley Subject: Re: James Tenney/La Monte Young brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > David Beardsley wrote: > > >And they too - not as far as La Monte Young (who?), Glenn Branca, Ezra Simms, > >or maybe Ben Johnston, but I'm getting carried away... > > As a staunch Young advocate, perhaps you or someone else can help me > over my stumbling block with him. I picked up 'The Well-Tuned Piano' > back when it was first released on Gramavision (mid 80's?) and have > since gotten the 'High Tension Wire..." (or whatever the complete > title is) and "Just Stompin'" discs, have listened many a time and > have yet to get what the hubbub is about. With WTP, I can enjoy the > tunings (at least to a limited non-musician extent; I can't tell a > 9-limit from a hole in the ground) but I don't hear a great deal of > beautiful "music" otherwise. Obviously, one could listen to WTP the > same way I can perform 4'33" on my way to work, but I imagine that's > not what Mr. Young has in mind. Often, it sounds to me similar > (allowing for tuning differences) to Jarrett's meanderings. A more > appropriate comparison, though with different instruments, might be to > David Hykes' Harmonic Choir: a fascinating technique applied to bland, > newagey music. I can understand that but there is composition involved in the WTP.La Monte improvises his way through the piece going from theme to theme to variation. I think if one listened to the WTP as ambient background music - and I'm not saying you do - , they might miss some of the finer points. Try following the subtitles with a stop watch and you'll catch the themes and variations. I like the clouds. I also like the sound of the tuning. I'd say that one of his goals is exploiting the tuning to get those sum & difference tones that float above and below the notes that are actually played. It has a trance like effect on me. I have a friend and business associate named Bruce who has a term for all this: subtle. It should be noted that tuning isn't a style of music, and there are composers/musicans who have a different approach. A few nights ago, I caught a microtonal hard rock band - Birdhouse - at the Mercury Lounge. Very high energy. Hardly New Age. And then there's Joe & Mat Maneri's 72 equal temperament jazz, 72 being really close to just. I caught Mat with Joe Morris recently at the Knit and his violin playing just blew me away. Nothing mellow about his violin except the finish maybe. > Now, I've never heard Young's music live, All I've ever heard live is his singing with Pandit Pran Nath anda performance of his string quartet Chronos Kristalla at BAM in '95. I wish you could hear Poem for Chairs, Tables, Benches, etc. (chairs, tables, benches and unspecified sound sources) - noise from furniture being dragged. In a way, La Monte has a bit in common with Xenakis. If you're in town, stop by and check out the sound and light installation at the Dream House, that's a wildly dissonant chord. I say that in the 2 1/2 years that I've been watching the place, I seen a couple of people practically run out, although people generally stay. ;) It's right around the corner from the Knit. Thurs & Sat 2pm - 12 midnight. Check the web site for other details. > and can imagine that the > physical sensations encountered sitting in the same space might have > great effect similar to the buzzing-in-the-ears one gets at a Branca > concert. But, to these buzzing ears, Branca has a lot more going on > conceptually. Speaking just for me - Branca's non-tuning works do a lot less for me than his tuned works do. However I'm a big fan of his symphonies #3, 5 & 6. > In other words, what's there beyond the tuning? My love of, say, > Partch, has much more to do with his musical conception Yeah, but aren't the instruments cool? Even if they were in12 tone equal temperament they would sound pretty wacky. > than with a > tuning system (though perhaps, one might argue that they're > indistinguishable--I'm not so sure), a color in his palette. Is is infinitely many more colors. One of the advantages to this whole tuning bizis this: You've might have heard of music being described as major = happy and minor = sad. We're just touching on more colors. > If the > answer lies in mystic underpinnings that I'm not accepting, well, I'm > not. But lack of agreement with an artist's philosophical/religious > belief system doesn't prevent me from loving a Raphael > Transfiguration, a Dostoevski novel or a Ghanaian funeral service. > > So, what am I missing? If I didn't answer that question, hopefully I shed a bit of light on it.I hope people don't have a problem with the subject of this thread, La Monte was downtown long before the Knitting Factory even existed. > Ready to be pilloried, Naa... - -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * xouoxno@virtulink.com * * J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e * M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor * * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:40:31 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: James Tenney/La Monte Young In a message dated 12/23/98 6:31:12 PM, brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: << Now, I've never heard Young's music live>> I saw the Forever Blues Band play Lincoln Center just after that record was released. It was very similar to the record, not surprisingly. but I found it quite enjoyable, I must say, to see these four guys playing their heads off in a piece that progressed so slowly. other than that, what I remember most about this concert is that half the audience walked out well before it ended, while the other half gave it a thunderous ovation at the end, which I found immensely amusing. The Second Dream... is an amazing record to fall asleep to. guaranteed to give you cool dreams. and I've never actually heard The Well-Tuned Piano. if anyone's interested in selling it for a reasonable price or trading other discs for it, please e-mail me. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:05:18 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Ginger Baker's _No Material_ In a message dated 12/23/98 1:57:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, psaudino@interaccess.com writes: > Any opinions on this disc which features, among others, Brotzmann and > Skopelitis? I have this CD. Never really play it much as I was expecting a Last Exit sort of sound- which it delivered in places, but not with the same "energy" throughout as those previous CDs do. To be perfectly honest, I think Baker's rather blase' drumming here holds back a wonderful lead section in Sko' and Brotzmann. Okay, but plenty more out there i'd buy if given the chance again. =dgasque= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 01:48:56 +0100 From: Lavrans Schrøder Subject: Masada I am goig to write a paper on Zorns Masada project, and i was wondering if the songs on Masada and Bar Kokbah are his own compositions or are the original jewish folk songs? And if they are jewish folk songs: where can i get the origianls (sheet music)??? Gaute - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:59:00 PST From: "holly findlater" Subject: as for improv-art-saturation-and the loss of all thats fresh? maybe last nite you woke up with knots in your fingers and sand on your tongue but this morning you are loose and wet and somehow not defined- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Dec 98 13:32:36 +0100 From: gsliepen Subject: Parachute Years Hye Zornies, I wonder if I should invest in the box-set "The Parachute Years"(Lacrosse,Hockey, Pool,Archery).Does anyone own this material and is it worth purchasing? Olivier - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:25:16 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: my notable reissues of 1998 Anal Magic & Rev. Dwight Frizzell-Beyond The Black Crack (Paradigm) Art Ensemble Of Chicago-Baptizum, Fanfare For The Warriors (Atlantic UK) David Behrman-Wave Train (Alga Marghen) Marion Brown-Afternoon Of A Georgia Faun (ECM) Eugene Chadbourne-Solo Acoustic Guitar, Volume 2 (Rastascan) Dead C.-Harsh 70s Reality (Siltbreeze) Franco Evangelisti-Franco Evangelisti (double CD on Editions RZ) Terry Fox-Ataraxia (Plate Lunch) Mnemonists-Horde (ReR) Arne Nordheim-Electric (Rune Grammofon) Omit-Quad (triple CD on Corpus Hermeticum) Organum-Volume One (Robot) Pharoah Sanders-Summun Bukmun Umyun (Impulse) Sun Ra-Black Myth/Out In Space (double CD on MPS) Taj Mahal Travellers-August 1974 (double CD on P-Vine) Rafael Toral-Wave Field (Dexter's Cigar) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:25:08 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: my notable records of 1998 Derek Bailey-Takes Fakes & Dead She Dances (Incus) Kjetil D. Brandsdal-Freedom-Waaaohwaaoh (Corpus Hermeticum) Jonathan Coleclough-Cake (Robot) Maxime De La Rochefoucauld-Automates XI (Plastique) DJ Disk-Ancient Termites (Bomb Hip-Hop) Don't Dolby-Don't Dolby (Gefriem) Simon Fell-Composition No. 30: Compilation III (double CD on Bruce's Fingers) Hatohan-Hatohan (Hacca) K-Salvatore-Four Impossible Puns (double LP on Siwa) Martin Klapper & Roger Turner-Recent Croaks (Acta) George Lewis & Bertram Turetsky-Conversations (Incus) Denman Maroney-Hyperpiano (self-released CD) Massive Attack-Mezzanine (Virgin) Matmos-Quasi-Objects (Vague Terrain) Kouhei Matsunaga-Upside Down (Mille Plateaux) Loren Mazzacane-Evangeline (Road Cone), In Twilight (Alien8) Butch Morris-Tit For Tat (For 4 Ears) Gunter Muller & Jim O'Rourke-Weighting (For 4 Ears) 1/Tau-Hikuioto (1/Tau) Orchester 33 1/3-Orchester 33 1/3 (Plag Dich Nicht/Rhiz) Evan Parker-Live At Les Instants Chavires (Leo) Pomassl-Trail Error (Laton) Radian-Radian (Rhiz) RST-R136a (Ecstatic Peace) Starfuckers-Infrantumi (Drunken Fish) Taku Sugimoto-Opposite (Hat Noir) Cecil Taylor-The Tree Of Life (FMP) Martin Tetreault-La Nuit Ou J'Ai Dit Non (Audioview) TV Pow-Away Team (BOXMedia) Voice Crack-Below Beyond Above (Uhlang) Various Artists-Meme (Meme) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:01:27 -0800 (PST) From: "m. rizzi" Subject: Re: my notable records of 1998 >Derek Bailey-Takes Fakes & Dead She Dances (Incus) >Kjetil D. Brandsdal-Freedom-Waaaohwaaoh (Corpus Hermeticum) [clip] before the zorn-list gets a barrage of fave album lists, I would like to remind everyone that it is preferable to include a review/comment for each item of your list. By doing that, your list will have some actual content, and possibly form the seed for a discussion, rather than be a rote enumeration. mike rizzi the fist and power behind the zorn-list :) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:50:14 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: my notable records of 1998 In a message dated 12/27/98 11:04:56 AM, rizzi@netcom.com wrote: <> I'd be more than happy to answer any questions, private or public, about any of these records, how they sound or how to try to get them. I've mentioned a fair amount of these records on this list already this year, usually with some description, and it typically leads to zero discussion. I feel like I've contributed enough opinions and discussion to this list so that anyone paying attention has a pretty good idea as to my taste and how (or whether) it overlaps with theirs. therefore, I felt that a "rote enumeration" would prove useful to at least some people out there. I put a fair amount of time into putting this list together, and I apologize if anyone felt spammed by it. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 11:01:08 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Year's Best and then some (annotated) Top ten releases, more or less from 1998: Derek Bailey Takes Fakes and Dead She Dances Incus A fine collection of solo pieces (including some recitation) very much in line with Bailey's solo work from recent years and, imo, the equal of any of them, which makes it among the best music anywhere. Howard Skempton Well, Well, Cornelius Sony Short solo piano pieces (perfomed by AMM's John Tilbury). Think Satie, with dashes of Feldman, Cardew and Rzewski. Gorgeous stuff. Anthony Braxton Compositions 10 + 16 (+101) Hat [now] Hopefully just an early step towards the consideration of Braxton's great body of work as repertoire for all creative musicians. Striking, sensitive work from Jim O'Rourke, Guillermo Gregorio a.o. John Zorn The Circle Maker Tzadik What's to say that everyone here doesn't know? Lovely, mature work from our favorite son. Especially fine performances from Feldman and Ribot. Rabih Abou-Khalil Odd Times Enja Unusual ensemble (oud, harmonica, tuba and percussion) playing jazz-inflected Middle Eastern music with great spirit. Think of an earthier Simon Shaheen. John Zorn Masada Tet DIW Still going strong at this point. Fred Frith Pacifica Tzadik Serene, lovely piece incorporating Neruda texts and found sounds. Calm, contemplative and very beautiful. John Zorn Filmworks VIII Tzadik I know some found things herein a wee bit precious, but not me. Great work from Min Xiao-Fen, Ribot and Anthony Coleman on the first section and spirited fun from Baptista and Wolleson on 'Latin Boys Go to Hell'. Teodoro Anzelotti Erik Satie Winter & Winter A must for Satie and/or accordion fans. Kazutoki Umezu Ahiru Nani How can one resist a 20 piece Japanese Klezmer ensemble doing rousing versions of 'Tum Balalayke', 'Bay Mir Bistu Sheyn' and [English transalation of the Yiddish] 'I Wanna Go Where the Wild Goose Goes'? Honorable mention: Aaly Trio w/KvDM Stumble Wobbly Rail Derek Bailey/ Joelle Leandre No Waiting Potlatch Martin Bartlett Burning Water Periplum La Banda Banda and Jazz Enja Peter Brotzmann Chicago Octet/Tentet Okkadisk Brian Eno/BOAC Music for Airports Point Ellery Eskelin One Great Day... Hatology Morton Feldman Neither hat[now] Ground Zero Plays Standards Nani Barry Guy Three Pieces for Orchestra Intakt Min Xiao-Fen Spring, River, Flower, Moon, Night Asphodel Previte/Zorn... Downtown Lullaby Depth Taku Sugimoto Opposite Hat Noir David Shea Mort aux Vaches Staalplaat David Shea Classical Works Tzadik Ken Vandermark Target or Flag Atavistic John Wall Fractuur Utterpsalm John Zorn The Bribe Tzadik John Zorn Masada Yod DIW (Various)Burma White Elephants & Golden Ducks Shanachie (Various)Ghana Drums of Death Avant Most fondly remembered live shows: Steven Drury and Anthony de Mare performing Rzewski The Kitchen Bar Kokhba Chamber Ensemble Tonic Elliot Sharp's Terraplane Knit Guy Klucevsek solo Tonic Tambastics Knit Phew! Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #563 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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