From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: drummers Date: 30 Sep 2000 23:00:27 -0700 Peter Marsh wrote: >=20 > harald weiss - trommelgefluster Yes! I was wondering if I was the only person here who'd bring this up. W= eiss has another fine album on Wergo Spectrum titled _Winterges=E4nge_ which i= s not strictly percussion -- he sings, there's some piano -- and has the advant= age of being a collection of shorter pieces; I think I've used every track on a = mix tape at least once over the last decade. Sadly, kinda hard to find these = days. I'm stunned nobody's mentioned Eddie Prevost yet ... aside from all those= AMM records, see his solo disc _Loci of Change_ from 1996, a catalog of all t= he sounds and techniques that *don't* come to mind when you think "jazz/rock drumming" (the line between this and the more abstract branches of "indus= trial" being fairly permeable, cf his collaboration with Organum). Even further to the "open space" extreme than Prevost is a fine solo disc= out this year (rec. 1998) by Massachusetts drummer Matt Weston, _Vacuums_ (on Sachimay); some parts feature extended bouts of nothing, with only a crin= kle or a tap suspended in 20 seconds at a time of waiting -- forcing, if you're = paying attention, an extraordinary focus on the fine texture of the sounds. Othe= r bits mix in electronics, tho it's often difficult to tell where the cymbals et= c. leave off and the oscillators start; after all that silence there's also = some hellacious loudness. Fans of Prevost or Robair (also see, jeez) are urged= to check out. And speaking of the drum/electronics mix, let us all briefly bow in the direction of the godhead that is John Surman/Stu Martin _Live at Woodstoc= k Town Hall_, shall we? Oh yes, and I dare anybody who wants to cap on Ginger Baker to listen blindfolded to _No Material_, his 1989 (rec. 1987) album with Sharrock, Br=F6tzmann, Scopelitis and Kazda & tell me it ain't the shit. G'wan. --=20 Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) Subject: drummers, sax and bass, etc. Date: 01 Oct 2000 03:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Hello, ...who is a really awful drummer? I don't know names, but the perpetrators of the drum solos on Iron Butterfly's "Ina Gadda Da Vita" and Edgar Winter Group's "Frankenstien" come to mind. Both were/are bad songs (not the word, really) before the drum solos, but these examples are both cringe inducing to me. The solo is usually where drummers show their shortcomings. Over the last decade or so, I can remember some occasions when listening to jazz (usually post-bop) where the music was moving along nicely, only to be deflated by a bland drum turn. But bland doesn't equal awful, does it? ...outstanding drummers in jazz: the already mentioned Sunny Murray. His approach to the instrument raised the abstraction of the music to a whole new level. From what all the reliable sources claim, he was the first to completely leave the notion of time-keeping in the dust. I haven't heard a single recording where he disappointed me. Favorites include Ayler's ESP disks and Murray's own "Sonny's Time Now" on DIW. I also dig Milford Graves, Ed Blackwell, Elvin Jones with Coltrane (haven't heard any post 'Trane stuff. Recommendations?), Rashied Ali, and others, of course. Always thought Beaver Harris was under-appreciated. ...rock: Mitch Mitchell from the Hendrix Experience. I've listened to certain JHE recordings over 75 times (easy), and they still drop my jaw. George Hurley of the Minutemen. The jazziest punk drummer I've ever heard. Steve Shelly from Sonic Youth. Never tardy. His playing on "Silver Rocket" from "Night Music" will stay with me forever. ...Joey Baron's playing on the first Naked City is always a treat. His ability to play with utter authority through the Stalling-like barrage of styles is very impressive. He was also quite fine the one time I saw Masada. ...to respond to Jerzy's call of R. Starr as a awful drummer, I'll disagree. In my opinion, he's better than C. Watts (who I don't dislike), if only because I can name three Beatles tunes where the drums are my favorite part ("Rain", "Tomorrow Never Knows", and "Taxman"). I can't do that with any Stones songs. Of course, all of his post Beatles work (except for some playing I dig on a Yoko solo date) is total feckin' shite. ...wild card drum pick: Ted Brewer's way gone attack on the self titled Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers debut on Alligator. Like Mitch Mitchell playing with a slightly dusted Elmore James. ...on the sax/bass thread, I'll second the praise for Coleman/Haden "Soapsuds". Playing it as I type, in fact. Some of the most confident interplay between just two individuals that I've ever heard. It's no great revelation that so few musicians like to play solo or in duo (or even trio) configurations because there is no place to hide. That's why Coltrane's "Interstellar Space" is such a monster (yeah, it's sax/drums, but it's one of the most nude, everything on the line records to ever reach my ears). Has Zorn ever recorded any duos with just a bass player? His duo with guitarist Eugene Chadbourne, "In Memory of Nikki Arane" is still rather new to me, but I find it superb. I recall reading that Zorn did a solo sax rec., but the title escapes me. ...I'm curious about list member opinions regarding electric jazz guitar from all eras, including Zorn accompanists. Thoughts on Sharrock? What are the best collecions of Django and Christian? List member faves? Bill Frisell? Ray Russell? ...that'll be enough of my rambling.... I remain.... Joseph "There's no boundary line to art" Charlie Parker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Drummers Date: 01 Oct 2000 10:23:03 +0200 On Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 07:35:18AM -0400, Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > > > Among rockers, I've always liked Bill Bruford, whose work with King Crimson > > over the last 20 years (geez, has it really been that long?) is always > > superlative. Of course, the best Crimson album for percussion is Larks > > Tongues in Aspic, where Jamie Muir joins the group. Surprised our local > > Crimson worshipper, Steve Smith, didn't mention them, but he probably > > hasn't gotten a new collectors club recording in a week or so ;-) And I must say that Crimson new drummer, Pat Mastelotto, is really excellent... Especially live. I liked the recent double duo shows much more then the double trio few years ago. The intensity of the smaller ensemble is incredible, and Gunn (BTW the guy is a monster bassplayer)/Mastelotto rhythm section was one of the reasons. Hard to compare to BB, as i know BB much more - I've got most of the things he's recorded - but he's really great. Maybe the best 'rock' drummer (BTW i'm not sure whether we should count Bruford as a 'rock' drummer. Cambers - jazz, Bruford - rock? I'm not convinced) ever...really good, heavy rumming Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: drummers Date: 01 Oct 2000 09:06:02 GMT >From: Jim Flannery > >Oh yes, and I dare anybody who wants to cap on Ginger Baker to listen >blindfolded to _No Material_, his 1989 (rec. 1987) album with Sharrock, >Brötzmann, Scopelitis and Kazda & tell me it ain't the shit. G'wan. Thanks for reminding me about this one. I haven't listened to it for awhile. Some of the better work of Skopelitis as well, who with Baker carries the show for the most part. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: drummers, sax and bass, etc. Date: 01 Oct 2000 09:31:14 GMT >From: josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) > ...I'm curious about list member opinions regarding electric jazz >guitar from all eras, including Zorn accompanists. Thoughts on Sharrock? >What are the best collecions of Django and Christian? List member faves? >Bill Frisell? Ray Russell? I have "The Genius of Charlie Christian" LP version from Columbia and have found it a nice representative sampling of his work. I also own the two volumes of Django's hits. As for Sharrock, "Ask the Ages" with Pharoah remains my favorite and the new rerelease "Black Woman" is also quite intense. Some of his most powerful work was with Last Exit--the first release and Headfirst into the Flames (now OOP) are perhaps the most representative. On the whole, though, I would tend to avoid some of Sharrock's solo work. "Seize the Rainbow," "Guitar," and the duet with Skopelitis "Faith Moves" are pretty good, but I can't stand most of "Live in NY," a recording basically ruined by the vocals of Ron Cartel and keyboardist Dave Snyder, at least according to my senses anyway. He has a strong version of "Upper Egypt" on another studio recording that, but for that composition, I don't like. "L'eng Tsche" is my favorite Frisell work with Zorn. My favorite clarinet/soprano sax player in the older tradition is Sidney Bechet, but sadly, after blowing an old tape of the Smithsonian collection a few years back, I know longer own any Bechet. Which is the best Bechet recording currently available according to your best educated senses? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vigill Subject: Caspar Brotzmann question Date: 01 Oct 2000 11:45:10 +0200 Hello Zornlisters, in recent discussion on drummers somebody mentioned the name of Caspar Brotzmann. Beyond the fact, that he's a son of Peter I know nothing about him. I know only one recording with Caspar - Peter Brotzmann Tentet - Marz Combo (he's mentioned as Casper there). So, please, provide me with some more info on this gentleman (discography, recommendtions, etc.). Thanx Vigill - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: Re: drums Date: 01 Oct 2000 12:32:07 +0200 (CEST) My turn now :-) And what about, Tony Oxley: he is both classic and innovative. Amazing in the sound (with Braxton, Cecil Taylor). I agree with Jon Abbey : Le Quan Ninh is a very great musician; he is more a percussionist than a drummer. I've seen him many times these last years, what he does is fantastic. He has created a kind of new language with percussions/objects. Jacques Oger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Risser Family" Subject: Re: drummers Date: 01 Oct 2000 08:55:37 -0400 > > yeah yeah yeah...but who's a really awful drummer? > > > > from, > > matt > > > > Ringo Starr Ringo Starr was/is a genius. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Vandelaar" Subject: Drummers & electric guitarists Date: 01 Oct 2000 22:44:26 +0930 Joseph Neff wrote : " ...wild card drum pick: Ted Brewer's way gone attack on the self titled Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers debut on Alligator. Like Mitch Mitchell playing with a slightly dusted Elmore James." Superb recommendation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How about a Derek Bailey / Ted Brewer duet? As for electric 'jazz' guitarists, my favourite would have to be James Blood Ulmer, especially the bluesy 'Odyssey' album and everything that came before that chronologically. I have plenty of time for Hans Reichel. Marc Ribot plays some stunning stuff when he guests with Medeski, Martin & Wood. My fave is 'Hey Joe' from 1/17/99 at the Bowery Ballroom. Davey Williams is wildly imaginitive ... but I don't like his stuff with Curlew. Wild card guitar pick: Jerry Garcia on some of those strung out jams from the early 70s, especially several versions of "Playin in the Band" from '72 or the superb 'Dark Star' from 4/8/72 to name but one. 2nd wild card pick: Earl Hooker, see his playing on 'Improvisations on Frosty' & 'Improvisations on Dust My Broom' found on the Arhoolie set called 'First & Last Recordings' (I think). Cheers, Michael - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: drummers Ringo Date: 01 Oct 2000 09:13:48 -0400 >Ringo Starr was/is a genius. I agree. The things he did within a pop context back in the early 60s was just out of this world. OH, and let's not forget about Keith Moon, when the Who released My Generation in (I think ) 1966, that was just so ahead of their time, it was really really wild. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. Nick Drake - Five Leaves Left - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Ladew Subject: re: drummers (worst) Date: 01 Oct 2000 09:32:42 -0400 Perhaps Denardo Coleman (Empty Foxhole -Blue Note) though, I really like that album anyway...... NP: Kid A -- Rich Ladew: ladewtangclan@earthlink.net www.home.earthlink.net/~ladewtangclan PCP House Of Coffee: The best in modern, experimental and creative music WUNH 91.3fm Monday evenings 8-9 p.m.(EST) Real Audio at www.wunh.unh.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Caspar Brotzmann question Date: 01 Oct 2000 09:40:15 -0400 At 11:45 AM 10/1/00 +0200, Vigill wrote: > >in recent discussion on drummers somebody mentioned the name of Caspar >Brotzmann. Beyond the fact, that he's a son of Peter I know nothing >about him. I know only one recording with Caspar - Peter Brotzmann >Tentet - Marz Combo (he's mentioned as Casper there). So, please, >provide me with some more info on this gentleman (discography, >recommendtions, etc.). Casper's actually a rather heavy guitarist. His primary group has been the Casper Brotzmann Massaker, and the drummer for this group was mentioned earlier in this thread. He also has an album Zulutime with Page Hamilton, a heavy guitar duet, loaded with feedback and noise, as well as an album Merry Christmas with F. M. Einheit (percussionist with Neubaten). I'm not an especially big fan of Massaker because the garbled vocals and what I've always considered a simple beat (but now I'll have to relisten because of the afore-mentioned recommendation), but if you like noisy, loud guitar, his work is worth checking out. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Drummers Date: 01 Oct 2000 12:03:14 +0200 Ooops, In my recent comment on Pat Mastelotto, i frogot to mention that he plays electronic drumset in Crimson (although all intersted probably knopw that) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reaboi@aol.com Subject: Django & Bechet Date: 01 Oct 2000 11:00:46 EDT as you know both Django's and Sidney Bechet's recordings fall before the LP era. thus, every CD or LP will be a collection or greatest hits of some kind, if it's not a massive & complete chronological set. As an introduction to these guys, you can buy 1-by-1 of each on the CHRONOLOGICAL series. it's a foreign label you can get easily at Tower. the sound quality is good. Both Bechet and Reinhardt have several discs. I've got some of the 30s and early 40s Bechet sides. there's a *sick* 6 disc set called COMPLETE RCA RECORDINGS OF DJANGO REINHARDT & THE HOT CLUB OF FRANCE. It's on Mosaic; one of the most essential things ever for any music. I hope it's still in print. well, the most important thing is to buy a Bechet set with a version of "Blues for You, Johnny" with Earl Hines on piano; a Django set with "Improvisation 1" on it (or anything else). Any more questions should be directed to Phil Schaap at WKCR, Saturdays 6-10pm Cheers, Dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: drums Date: 01 Oct 2000 12:50:44 EDT In a message dated 10/1/00 6:33:28 AM, oger@worldnet.fr writes: << Le Quan Ninh is a very great musician; he is more a percussionist than a drummer. I've seen him many times these last years, what he does is fantastic. He has created a kind of new language with percussions/objects. >> US fans will get a rare chance to see Ninh next month. he's on a coast to coast solo tour, confirmed dates below, thanks largely to the efforts of our own Matt Wirzbicki. in NYC, I think he's playing Columbia University somewhere, but last I heard, it wasn't confirmed yet. go see him if at all possible. 10-13 nov : NYC 14 nov : Annandale NY (Bard College) 15 nov : Easthampton MA (Flywheel) 16 nov : Boston MA (Twisted Village) 18 nov : Pittsburgh PA (Millvale Industrial Theater) 21 nov : Detroit MI (Community College) 22 nov : Toronto (Canada) 24 nov : Chicago IL (Lampo) 25 nov : Madison WI (Erie Art Museum) 26 nov : Minneapolis, MI 29 nov : Denver CO 30-31 nov : Colorado Springs CO (Colorado College) 2 dec : Albuquerque NM( The Outpost) 9 dec : San Diego CA (Spruce Street Forum) Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 19:09:25 +0200 Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin. Violinists that I appreciate are: Zbigniew Seifert /was/ Didier Lockwood SugarCane Harris Leroy Jenkins Charles Burnham David LaFlamme Any others? JM - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 13:20:27 +0000 on 10/1/00 5:09 PM, Jerzy Matysiakiewicz at jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl wrote: > Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin. > Violinists that I appreciate are: > ... > Any others? I've got Mat Maneri in my head all the time lately. I don't understand how he gets where it is he goes, and it fascinates and trills me to no end. His voice is like a perfectly controlled fall down a long flight of flowing stairs. Doing his discography now, you bet. (see sig below) okay ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html , RL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 10:25:36 -0700 Jerzy Matysiakiewicz wrote: > > Charles Burnham I was just listening to Blood Ulmer's _Live at the Caravan of Dreams_ lp for the first time maybe since it came out last week -- I was really disappointed in it at the time because Ulmer was laying so far back guitar-wise, but this time thru I realized it just gave Burnham that much more space. Great playing. > Any others? Obvious omission would be Billy Bang. Try the solo lp on hatHut, _Distinction without a Difference_, if you can find it. Ornette. On the more rockist end, Blaine Reininger of Tuxedomoon was a major component in their sound, with a gorgeous capital-R Romantic melodic sense. Walter Steding of the downtown NYC scene in the late 70s/early 80s: first album great, second not-so-great at all. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Re: Drummers and Dennis Chambers? Date: 01 Oct 2000 13:48:43 EDT I'll leave off my favorites that have been named but I was a little shocked not the see Stevie Wonder. He has one of the most unique grooves in terms of feel. Also Steve Gadd is should be mentioned. He's played sessions for so many and still managed to keep his own sound. Listen to his playing with Chick Corea, Paul Simon, then Van MaCoy (though I don't like his big band playing very much). He always plays like he means it and has influenced many of the drummers already mentioned. I would like to mention Mark Zonder from the progressive rock band Fates Warning. Many may not like the music because it sounds like eighties metal but this is one of the most melodic drummers. He has a very linear style (which I prefer to "beats") and makes wonderful use of electronics within the idiom he plays in. And finally Gene Hoglan from Death and Strapping Young Lad is one of the best heavy drummers I've ever heard. He comes up with creative almost fusion like beats in a metal band (I don't consider them death metal but who cares for labels anyway). Also, I was wondering why so many love Dennis Chambers so much. He often comes of as being a good in the pocket groove drummer with poor musicianship. He still uses the same "show off" tricks he used in the 1980s. He's definitely not a bad drummer but I would never think of him as one of the best. Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re:violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 17:56:44 -0000 On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:09:25 +0200 Jerzy Matysiakiewicz wrote: >Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin. >Any others? Michael White! He played with John Handy, Pharoah Sanders, the Fourth Way... Michael Urbaniak, Polish fusion player from the '70s... David Cross (King Crimson), Darryl Way (Curved Air), Stuff Smith, Jerry Goodman (Mahavishnu), even Jean-Luc Ponty sometimes (like King Kong, Zappa, Mahavishnu) or and let's not forget...Tony Conrad! _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Drummers (Phil Haynes) Date: 01 Oct 2000 11:02:16 -0700 Phil Haynes is playing with Vinny Golia this evening in Eagle Rock CA. What's the list feeling about Haynes? Good foil for Golia? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:02:39 -0400 > On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:09:25 +0200 Jerzy Matysiakiewicz > wrote: > >Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin. If someone doesn't mention Leroy Jenkins pretty soon, I'm gonna be pissed. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius" Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Please Let's not confuse technique and musical nostalgia for "genius". If Starr and Moon were/are "geniuses", what do you call Philly Joe Jones, Elvin Jones, Tony Oxley, Roy Haynes, Andrew Cyrille etc. "supergeniuses"? Hierarchies don't have to be constructed. But if you mustdo so, realize that everyone can't be #1. Ken Waxman --- "Neil H. Enet" wrote: > >Ringo Starr was/is a genius. > > I agree. The things he did within a pop context > back in the early 60s was just out of this world. > > OH, and let's not forget about Keith Moon, when the > Who released My Generation in (I think ) 1966, that was just so ahead of their time. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:16:57 +0000 on 10/1/00 6:02 PM, Brian Olewnick at olewnik@idt.net wrote: >> On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:09:25 +0200 Jerzy Matysiakiewicz >> wrote: >>> Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin. > > If someone doesn't mention Leroy Jenkins pretty soon, I'm gonna be > pissed. Hey!!! What about LEROY JENKINS??? I saw him for the first time playing a Quartet gig in someone's living-room on the LowerEastSide, maybe mid 80's. Seating was mostly on old couches and they had the fridge up front near the door-- filled with bottled beer instead of food. Folding tables w/ poetry pamphlets and small press books, very relaxed scene. I wish I could remember who he was with. So yes, Leroy Jenkins. okay, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:27:33 +0000 on 10/1/00 2:16 PM, Rick Lopez at bb10k@velocity.net wrote: > Hey!!! What about LEROY JENKINS??? I saw him for the first time playing a > Quartet gig in someone's living-room on the LowerEastSide, maybe mid 80's. Ummm.... wait, maybe late 70's? old, getting older, r ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: record review: Shoji Hano + Keiji Haino: The Strange Face Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:32:03 -0400 Just thought I would post a review of the new record by Shoji Hano & Keiji Haino, entitled "The Strange Face". It was released this month as the first release of the new independent label, Ultra Hard Gel Records, out of Santa Cruz. This is Haino's second collaboration with Hano, the first being a 1991 release on Package Records, "Tayhei Nipon". On "The Strange Face", Haino and Hano participate in 7 improvisational duets, five of which are guitar/percussion duets and two of which are vocal/percussion. However, the improvisation has some pre-established rhythms and directions, (i.e. improvisation as Fushitsusha improvises, where the music while spontaneous on an instantaneous level is following a generally previously agreed upon path, as opposed to improvisation along the lines of the Haino/Bailey or Haino/Brotzmann duets, where it seems (to me) that the shape of the end product was entirely unknown prior to the recording session. All the tracks vary greatly in style, some with Haino heavy on the guitar, some that most recall the sometimes melodic Haino/Baron/Cohen cd on Tzadik. The vocal tracks feature Haino shrieking and chanting. This is really a surprisingly listenable album, and not just appealing to fans of free improvisation. For my money, "The Strange Face" and the second Aihiyo record, released this summer on PSF, are the two best Haino-related recordings released in the past couple of years. David K. p.s. (So far I have only seen this cd available through Forced Exposure.) p.p.s. On a related note, also released this September is a Haino/Hano/Brotzmann live show on DIW, "Shadow - Live in Welz, Austria". This album is much noisier and less "pre-conceived" than the Haino/Hano duet album. p.p.p.s. The dates for Fushitsusha playing in Denmark, Netherlands, and Belgium in November are posted at: http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: and more drummerz minus one Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:32:11 EDT mingusaum@yahoo.ca writes: > However I must protest: Ginger Baker? I really like his newest album with the DJQ2O (Denver Jazz Quintet-to-Octet) 'Coward of the County' (1999, Atlantic). Trumpeter Ron Miles wrote the majority of the material and James Carter appears on 4 of the 8 tracks. Ginger has such a distinct and full sound. I too also dig the Trio album 'Going Back Home' with Frisell and Haden. Speaking of Baker, one of the my favorite rock albums is the under-heard Masters of Reality album 'Sunrise on the Sufferbus' (1992, Chrysalis), where Baker is a nice balance to Chris Goss' voice. Unfortunately, this was Ginger's only album with the band. jeff caltabiano n.p. dylan: new morning - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Jon Rose violin: NYC/Boston String festival Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:35:30 EDT concert alert to NYC folks tio thereabouts one of my favorite violinists, Jon Rose, is curating a string festival (that= =20 includes piano, y'all) at Tonic [see www.tonic107.com for the schedule], an= d=20 also this coming weekend in Boston with violinist Jonathan LaMaster. rose has a million bizarre discs out, and many are radio dramas. in his own= =20 way, he's as wonderfully insane as eugene chadbourne, and though he rarely=20 does free improv in disc, when i saw him live at downtown music gallery, be=20 proved himself to be at the top. if i may give more info: "FIRST ANNUAL STRING IMPROVISORS FESTIVAL"=20 SUNDAY, OCTOBER 22, FROM 7PM TO 10PM=20 AT THE FIRST PARISH OF CAMBRIDGE (UNITARIAN CHURCH) 3 CHURCH STREET (CORNER OF MASS. AVE.) HARVARD SQUARE, CAMBRIDGE, MA. _______________________________________________ Featured performers will include Jon Rose (interactive violinist from=20 Amsterdam who is curratinga month-long string festival at Tonic in New York=20 City in October), LaDonna Smith, TheHarald Kimmig/Carl Ludwig H=FCbsch Duo (a violin/tuba duo from=20 Germany), andBoston's own Saturnalia String Trio +1(an improvising=20 violin/cello/bass ensemble with Jane Wang on bass). For more information, contact Jonathan=20 LaMaster at Sublingual Records, (781)388-9855, Info@sublingual.com,=20 www.sublingual.com. At 7pm, Saturnalia String Trio (+1), comprised of Jonathan LaMaster on=20 violin, Vic Rawlings on cello, Mike Bullock on bass, and the additional bass= =20 playing of Jane Wang. At 7:45pm, Jon Rose will make his first appearance in front of a Boston audience. Possessing the rare blend of both technical virtuosity and a penchant for humor and Zappa-esque satire in performance, Rose is athoroughl= y=20 entertaining improvisor. The New York Times described a pastperformance as=20 such: "From one moment to the next, his violin might sound like a subway car= =20 screeching to a halt, the wailing of jimi hendrix's guitar, or a gently=20 gurgling mechanical toy. From the cacophony arose memorable jazz riffs and=20 paganini style virtuosity." .... his on-going project of some 20 years The= =20 Relative Violin... newi nstrument design (over 25 deconstructed violins),=20 environmental performance (eg. playing fences in the Australian outback usin= g=20 the violin as a bow), new instrumental techniques, the use of analogue=20 (internal to the violin) and inter-active electronics (2 bowing to Midi=20 systems) . . . radio, TV and film. Jon Rose has appeared on over 50 records=20 and CDs and has worked .... Derek Bailey, Butch Morris, Fred Frith, Alvin=20 Curran, Chris Cutler, Otomo Yoshihide, Barre Phillips, & Miya Masaoka. =20 http://www.euronet.nl/users/jrviolin/index.html At 8:30pm, The Harald Kimmig/Carl Ludwig H=FCbsch Duo; worked with Peter=20 Kowald, Cecil Taylor, Steve Lacy,John Tchicai, Lee Konitz, and Lester Bowie.= =20 H=FCbsch's website: http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-huebsccah At 8:45pm, LaDonna Smith=20 Smith's website can be found at=20 http://www.the-improvisor.com/transmuseq/ladonna/ yrs...steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Re: Re:violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 20:33:57 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 7:56 PM ... > Michael Urbaniak, Polish fusion player from the '70s... Urbaniak of course. I prefer Seifert and I doesn't to overload my list with the guys from my homelnad. But--> also fantastic player is Maciej Strzelczyk > David Cross (King Crimson), Darryl Way (Curved Air), Stuff Smith, Jerry Goodman > (Mahavishnu), even Jean-Luc Ponty sometimes (like King Kong, Zappa, Mahavishnu) > or and let's not forget...Tony Conrad! And Papa John Creach, Alan Silva, Ramsey Ameen, Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: drummers: Edward Blackwell Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:46:21 EDT dont recall if edward (he preferred his full name) blackwell was mentioned. a must-have: "MU"- duets with don cherry on 2 LPs on byg actuel, later 2LPs then one CD on charley/affinity. a must-have oh yeah, and warren smith, warren smith, warren smith yeahhhh :) steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: Caspar Brotzmann question Date: 01 Oct 2000 14:46:51 -0400 (EDT) At 09:40 01/10/00 -0400, Caleb T. Deupree wrote: >Casper's actually a rather heavy guitarist. His primary group has been the >Casper Brotzmann Massaker, and the drummer for this group was mentioned >earlier in this thread. He also has an album Zulutime with Page Hamilton, >a heavy guitar duet, loaded with feedback and noise, as well as an album >Merry Christmas with F. M. Einheit (percussionist with Neubaten). I'm not >an especially big fan of Massaker because the garbled vocals and what I've >always considered a simple beat (but now I'll have to relisten because of >the afore-mentioned recommendation), but if you like noisy, loud guitar, >his work is worth checking out. I have meant to ask on this list if anyone knows what makes his actuality these days. (What's up with Caspar?) On basis of the recordings with his band Caspar Br=F6tzmann Massaker, he appears to me a rather intense guitarist. His playing always fascinated me for playing with the nerves of the listener: very long quiet introductions, development with or without climax, spasmodic riffs, false resolutions, moments of intense jubilation. The pieces seem to evolve erratically from a plateau to another plateau, on the verge of messing up and losing control (indeterminacy), but his technique allows him to regain control and push to the next plateau, while the rest of the band simply accompanies.=20 Anyway, I'm surprised to see Caspar Br=F6tzmann come up in the thread about drummers... Massaker has had more than one drummer, and I kind of lost interest in Massaker because of some collaborations that tended to be less and less than satisfactory with time. I would nevertheless still recommend The Tribe (1988), Black Axis (1989), Home (1994), Koksofen (1993), Der Abend Der Schwarzen Folklore (1991), with more emphasis perhaps on the earlier recordings. I haven't heard Mute Massaker (1999).=20 On the recording Zulutime with Page Hamilton (guitarist of the band Helmet, I think) it's Hamilton who is a bit disappointing.=20 The recording with his father Peter Br=F6tzmann (Last Home, 1990) has been mentioned here some time ago and is a very fine one. (If you can get your hands on it, get it, and if you don't like it, contact me.) Benjamin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Zorn,Ornette,Kagel,Stockhausen[NYC] etc Date: 01 Oct 2000 15:06:39 EDT In a message dated 10/1/00 12:51:51 PM, you wrote: <> Hi Jon & Zorn-listers Crew, I didnt see him mentioned in Columbia Miller Theater's 2000/2001 program= =20 book, but thought you'd want to be alerted to peformances there of works by=20 berio, reich, stockhausen, ornette coleman ["trinity" 1986'; "in honor of=20 NASA" 1987"]; jean barraqu=E9, zorn "Le M=F4mo" , daniel schnyder, (this tue= sday:=20 crumb's vox balenae, rzewski's coming together, lang, tower]; boulez, ligeti= ,=20 kurtag, szymanowski. ives, finnbisey, messiaen, anhtiel and a buncha other=20 weirdo.... :::::: www.millertheater.com ::::: yrs steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Zorn "Amour Fou" & "Le Momo"- Oct5&7 NYC, not cheap + Free one: HERBERT BRUN electronic Date: 01 Oct 2000 15:19:03 EDT fyi: BARGEMUSIC October 5 & 7, 7:30 pm program: John Zorn - Amour Fou; Le Momo Stephen Drury, piano; Jennie Choi, violin; Erik Friedlander and Fred Sherry, cello Milton Babbitt - Composition for Four Instruments Margaret Lancaster, flute; Joanna Maurer, violin; Meighan Stoops, clarinet; Raman Ramakrishnan, cello Milton Babbitt - String Quartet No. 6 Harumi Rhodes and Aaron Boyd, violin; James Hogg, viola; Katherine Cherbas, cello Performances take place at the Fulton Ferry Landing in Brooklyn Heights. Information: 718/624-2083; www.bargemusic.org Free Admission: HERBERT BRUN ThreeTwo Festival of New Music. celebrates the chamber music and electronic works of provocative German-American composer Herbert Brun (b.1918). Complimenting the program will be compositions by Brun's colleagues including Susan Parenti Stefan Wolpe, Chris Mann, Drew Krause, Michael Kowalski, Bethany Cooper, Giussepe Englert, Michael Hamman, and Insook Choi. Details and featured flute pieces follow. THREETWO FESTIVAL OF NEW MUSIC Sunday, October 8, 2000, 1pm Sulzberger Parlor Barnard College (Broadway at 117th Street) Information: 212/942-2497; www.echonyc.com/~sulli/threetwo.html Herbert Brun - Gesto (ml, piccolo; Drew Krause, piano) Michael Kowalski - Bringing in the Sheaves for solo flute Bethany Cooper - See-Through (ml, flute; Lisa Wolfe, violin; Tomas Baechli,piano) Herbert Brun - U-Turn-To (tape and dancer, ml) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: leroy jenkins Date: 01 Oct 2000 15:29:13 EDT <> thanks, RL. yes, yes, yes: jenkins continues to blow me away, perhaps even more now than with the revolutionary ensemble (which i never heard live). his mix of improv and bluesroots is so integrated, so deep... blows me away every time. check out the 'equal interest' disc on omnitone. even moreso, his solo disc on CRI is a gem; brilliant (as in shining brightly). steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 12:52:10 -0700 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > If someone doesn't mention Leroy Jenkins pretty soon, I'm gonna be > pissed. er, he was on the original list in the post which asked the question "any others?" -- other to himself? -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #83 Date: 01 Oct 2000 13:00:58 -0700 > Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:32:07 +0200 (CEST) > From: Oger > Subject: Re: drums > > My turn now :-) > > And what about, > Tony Oxley: he is both classic and innovative. Amazing in the sound (with > Braxton, Cecil Taylor). > > I agree with Jon Abbey : Le Quan Ninh is a very great musician; he is more > a percussionist than a drummer. I've seen him many times these last years, > what he does is fantastic. He has created a kind of new language with > percussions/objects. > > Jacques Oger > The more I read this thread, the more I realize I have very little interest in 'drummers' and much more interest in 'percussionists'. People such as many mentioned here -- can't remember all them, but the Bozzio, Chambers, etc kind -- bore me to death. It is the ones who are willing to step out from behind their kit and work with non-traditional instruments that I like. Or people who aren't really there to play as a rhythm player. Even someone like Joey Baron, who is a great 'drummer', I begin to get bored with quite quickly. That said, I wholeheartedly agree with Jacques and Jon in their recommendation of Le Quan Ninh. And I am really surpriosed to see so little mention of Oxley, Eddie Prevost, and Paul Lovens. These guys are the ones doing something really interesting with percussion. And Gino Robair. And i'd also recommend a recent disc on Ambiances Magnetiques by Italian percussionist Mirko Sabatini, where he uses a variety of electric motors, and other things, to manuipluate his drums. Good stuff. And, for a completely untrained, yet interesting player, John Heward. If it can be found, his record with bassist Yves Boulliane (on a little label out of Montreal called CIAC) is great. And personal message for Jacques -- i got the discs, thank you. Yes, I am still doing the radio show, just far too busy to keep up with my playlists. Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeStijls@aol.com Subject: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 16:55:07 EDT violin fans, check out the playing of becky friend, if you can find it. i only know of 2 recordings alan silva's "skillfullness" erica pomerance's esp disk, what is it called? i think it is "you used to think" the first side of that silva disk is really great. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #83 Date: 01 Oct 2000 17:03:05 EDT In a message dated 10/1/00 2:33:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << Let's not confuse technique and musical nostalgia for "genius". If Starr and Moon were/are "geniuses", what do you call Philly Joe Jones, Elvin Jones, Tony Oxley, Roy Haynes, Andrew Cyrille etc. "supergeniuses"? Hierarchies don't have to be constructed. But if you mustdo so, realize that everyone can't be #1. >> there is a big difference between jazz drumming and rock drumming...ringo star drew from many influences and advanced the way rock music could be played...this isn't nostalgia...its realistic. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 17:40:17 -0400 DeStijls@aol.com wrote: > > violin fans, > check out the playing of becky friend, if you can find it. > i only know of 2 recordings > alan silva's "skillfullness" > erica pomerance's esp disk, what is it called? i think it is "you used to > think" She's also on Jenkin's JCOA commission/release, "For Players Only", no? Brian Olewnick NP: Derek Bailey - Playbacks - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 17:54:30 -0400 Becky Friend also played on: Sunny Murray - Big Chief Paul Motian - Conception Vessel John Kaizan Neptune - West of Somewhere George Scala - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: Re: Caspar Brotzmann question Date: 01 Oct 2000 18:15:51 EDT I'm not particularly crazy about Caspar's singing either,. HOwever the record HOME is wroth hearing despite the vocals--the guitar comes from a bastard punk-Hendrix tradition, and is in my opinion, quite brilliant. (I was born and raised in Detroit though so I have inherent what's probably an unhealthy affinity for loud distorted guitars whoever's playing them.) Caspar's last record is my favorite. It's called MUTE MASSAKER--because he doesn't sing at all on it. Despite the title, he plays with a different band. It's not Massaker. It's CAspar at his most mellow, tho even at his most mellow there's something of an jagged amphetimine rush. The guitar playing sounds closest to Neil Young's electric playing. I like both these recrods a lot. I just picked up an earlier work KOKSOFEN last week. It's a little too Teutonic for my tastes. Jerry B. > >in recent discussion on drummers somebody mentioned the name of Caspar > >Brotzmann. Beyond the fact, that he's a son of Peter I know nothing > >about him. I know only one recording with Caspar - Peter Brotzmann > >Tentet - Marz Combo (he's mentioned as Casper there). So, please, > >provide me with some more info on this gentleman (discography, > >recommendtions, etc.). <<>in recent discussion on drummers somebody mentioned the name of Caspar >Brotzmann. Beyond the fact, that he's a son of Peter I know nothing >about him. I know only one recording with Caspar - Peter Brotzmann >Tentet - Marz Combo (he's mentioned as Casper there). So, please, >provide me with some more info on this gentleman (discography, >recommendtions, etc.). Casper's actually a rather heavy guitarist. His primary group has been the Casper Brotzmann Massaker, and the drummer for this group was mentioned earlier in this thread. He also has an album Zulutime with Page Hamilton, a heavy guitar duet, loaded with feedback and noise, as well as an album Merry Christmas with F. M. Einheit (percussionist with Neubaten). I'm not an especially big fan of Massaker because the garbled vocals and what I've always considered a simple beat (but now I'll have to relisten because of the afore-mentioned recommendation), but if you like noisy, loud guitar, his work is worth checking out.>> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eisenbeil@aol.com Subject: Borah Bergman in concert with Mat Maneri Date: 01 Oct 2000 18:52:15 EDT FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: On Wednesday, October 4th at 10 p.m., pianist Borah Bergman and violinist Mat Maneri will perform at TONIC which is located at 107 Norfolk St., New York City, telephone: 212-358-7503. Tickets are $10. Convenient public transportation is available via the F train to Delancy Street; J, M, Z trains to Essex Street. Bergman is a New York City legend whose spinning vortex of sound, excitement and restless energy annihilates any distinction between left and right hand functions in piano playing. "Bergman has the hands of an eccentric genius." - Downbeat His signature invention is the phenomena of his left hand. On some of the most cutting edge labels in the world - Black Saint/Soul Note, Knitting Factory Records, Konnex - he has released over 20 recordings in the last 10 years and has appeared on many more recordings as a sideman. "Phenomenal" - The NY Times Bergman has performed and recorded with Evan Parker, Andrew Cyrille, Thomas Chapin, Roscoe Mitchell, Hamid Drake, Peter Brotzman, Anthony Braxton, Oliver Lake, Joe McPhee, Rashied Ali and others. Mat Maneri is an important new voice on violin. He has recorded and performed with Joe Maneri, Joe Morris, Cecil Taylor, Matthew Shipp, Bruce Eisenbeil, William Parker, Roy Campbell, Pandelis Karayorgis and others. Also performing that evening is the Soldier Quartet at 8pm. WHO: Borah Bergman - piano Mat Maneri - violin WHEN: Wednesday, October 4 One show at 10pm WHERE: TONIC 107 Norfolk St. (between Delancy and Rivington) tel: 212-358-7503 cover: $10 TRANSPORTATION: F train to Delancy St. J, M, Z to Essex St. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #83 Date: 01 Oct 2000 20:02:03 -0400 I agree with Dan whole heartedly on the matter of percussionists vs. just drummers. Percussionists aren't limited to merely cymbals and drums, they can experiment with bizarre objects or find new uses for everyday household objects. Percussionists who branch out to mallet instruments are particularly spectacular. Xylophones, Vibes, Marimbas, etc. are difficult to play well even if they are one's only instrument. I have the utmost respect for some one who can play drums, percussion, and mallets equally well. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: Borah Bergman in concert with Mat Maneri Date: 01 Oct 2000 20:24:40 -0400 (EDT) We'll all be there. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Caspar Brotzmann question Date: 01 Oct 2000 17:46:41 -0700 (PDT) >Brennansf@aol.com >Subject: Re: Caspar Brotzmann question Hi, I'm not so wild about the drumming on Mute Massaker either, but this could be due to the recording. The drums are panned just left of center and the bass goes the same to right. I don't know Hendrix very well, but I think this style of panning showed up on some of his records too? Also, they just aren't very big sounding. In previous releases, the drummer of course wasn't mixed as loud as Caspar's guitar, but it still sounded big. I hope he's not thinking that shrinking his rhythm section's sound will make the guitar sound bigger because to me it does the opposite. Or I guess it does, but the band as a whole suffers for it. I think I like Koksofen the best. I can do without the vocals on most of his stuff too, but this one wouldn't be as scary without them. It's all good stuff though, and the comments about the shapes the songs take, and the intensity that builds is right on the money. But I have to say that the story about Caspar agreeing to quit playing in the middle of a song because of complaints about noise kind of disappoints me. I'd have thought he'd play that guitar straight to jail (or at least finish the song). :~) ---Ryan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 21:09:15 -0700 >Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin. >Violinists that I appreciate are: >Zbigniew Seifert /was/ >Didier Lockwood >SugarCane Harris >Leroy Jenkins >Charles Burnham >David LaFlamme > >Any others? Billy Bang(who as I write this, is leading a quintet w/Frank Lowe on Knit TV) is well worth investigating . The earlier String Trio of NY discs, and his recordings for Soul Note are all good places to start. Another good one is Outline #12 one of the earliest large group conductions by Butch Morris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: violin Date: 01 Oct 2000 18:22:38 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > >Violinists that I appreciate are: > >Zbigniew Seifert /was/ > >Didier Lockwood > >SugarCane Harris > >Leroy Jenkins > >Charles Burnham > >David LaFlamme > > > >Any others? Michel Sampson, anyone? Later, Ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Risser Family" Subject: Re: drummers Ringo & "genius" Date: 01 Oct 2000 23:43:58 -0400 I'm thinking that there is more than one way to be a genius. The people you list are certainly genius's in the realm you are thinking of. But I'm betting that none of them have the capability to rock like John Bonham. His genius at rock was unparallelled. So. More than one type of genius, that's all I'm saying. Peter > Let's not confuse technique and musical nostalgia for > "genius". > > If Starr and Moon were/are "geniuses", what do you > call Philly Joe Jones, Elvin Jones, Tony Oxley, Roy > Haynes, Andrew Cyrille etc. "supergeniuses"? > > Hierarchies don't have to be constructed. But if you > mustdo so, realize that everyone can't be #1. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius" Date: 02 Oct 2000 00:04:16 EDT In a message dated 10/1/0 11:09:41 AM, you wrote: <> No -- other kinds of geniuses. One's ability to discern and propel polyrhythms etal would probably not have done the Beatles much good. Just as being able to swing eighth notes a certain way wouldn't have benefitted the Coltrane Quartet. Should you need to talk to a technically adept Ringo-worshipping drummer, who could probably better explain Ringo's contribution to the literature of drumming, Joey Baron has a lot of praise to heap in that area. skip heller NP: The Best Of Thee Midnighters - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Drivymovie@aol.com Subject: Re: violin Date: 02 Oct 2000 00:47:26 EDT Has anyone mentioned Mark Feldman yet? I think this guy is just incredible! He possesses an extraordinary technical command over his instrument (his floutando playing would be enough to sell me), like none other in jazz or improvised music. And, more importantly, he is quite possibly the most consistently creative and musical performers I have ever heard, regardless of what context he is playing in. A truly singular and versatile voice, I would say that him and Maneri do it for me the most. I especially dig his work with Dave Douglas (String group, Charms..., New & Used) and the Masada and, now defunct, Arcado string trios. Anyone have any opinions about any of his other work? I'm intrigued by his solo recording on Tzadik and his recent duo recording with Sylvie Courvoisier on Avant (who, by the way, led a very impressive ensemble, the other night at Tonic). Word, -Evan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: Re: violin Date: 02 Oct 2000 07:28:28 +0200 (CEST) << Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin. Violinists that I appreciate are: Zbigniew Seifert /was/ Didier Lockwood SugarCane Harris Leroy Jenkins Charles Burnham David LaFlamme Any others? >> In a different kind of music, I suggest : Carlos Zingaro Malcolm Goldstein And in a creative jazz feeling kind of music : Mat Maneri Jacques Oger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: Drums again Date: 02 Oct 2000 07:28:34 +0200 (CEST) About Le Quan Ninh : He has a website with information : [http://www.musique.net/ninh/] / [http://ninh.fr.st] BTW, about drummers, I forgot to mention Gino Robair (but maybe somebody else dit it ?). Jacques Oger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: aaron chua Subject: fennesz Date: 01 Oct 2000 22:58:05 -0700 (PDT) for those interested... just thought i'd give a quick plug to a Fennesz 3" that is coming out soon on the Synathaesia label. (it might already be out in the US)Recorded when the Mego crew were in Australia. circa the _live at revolver_ out on Touch. (i'm not a stake holder in the Label though i frequent Synathaesia the store...) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Einstein played drums... Date: 02 Oct 2000 06:23:53 -0000 How about Betty Wiggins from the Shaggs? Pure genius of a different sort.. _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Golia/Hayes & sax/drum duos Date: 02 Oct 2000 04:02:22 EDT Got to see Vinny Golia and Phil Haynes play as a duo tonight at a community center here in Los Angeles. They put on a remarkable and very "free" show, despite the tiny crowd. Golia, who normally brings an arsenal of horns to his shows cut down tonight to only soprano, tenor, and clarinet. His intensity was high and his playing focused. Drummer Haynes was a marvel to watch--his eyes closed practically the whole hour, he seemed in utter bliss and used a number of various drumsticks, hands, and other body parts in his playing. This was actually his first-ever show on the West Coast, altough him and Golia have performed together in New York. Great performance. Well, since we've discussed sax/bass duos and (separately) drummers, it seems only right to now discuss sax/drum duos...unless, of course, folks are tired of all this. (Before I forget, let me mention for the previous thread: Vinny Golia recorded 2 sax/bass duo albums in 1996: 'The Art of Negotiation' with Ken Filiano on CIMP and '11 Reasons to Begin' with Bertram Turetzky on Music & Arts). Anyway, Coltrane and Ali's 'Interstellar Space' may be the most famous of all the sax/drums duos (some may know that guitarist Nels Cline and drummer Gregg Bendian payed tribute with their own interpretation on last year's 'Interstellar Space Revisited', which I've had the good fortune of seeing live twice), but can others tell me other sax/drums albums of note? I haven't heard Zorn's 'Euclid's Nightmare' yet with drumer Bobby Previte, but would others suggest it? I think David Murray's probably done a sax/drum duo album (hell, he must've with 80+ albums under his belt), but I'm not sure about my other 2 favorite sax players: Ken Vandermark and James Carter. Maybe they've got a few more group albums to make first, since they're both still kinda young. Since I much prefer sax/drums to sax/bass, what can anyone add? jeff caltabiano n.p. sam rivers' rivbea all-star orchestra: inspiration - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #83 Date: 02 Oct 2000 10:05:17 +0200 "&c." wrote: > I agree with Dan whole heartedly on the matter of percussionists vs. ju= st > drummers. Percussionists aren't limited to merely cymbals and drums, t= hey > can experiment with bizarre objects or find new uses for everyday house= hold > objects. must first say that i haven't read dan's statement. i wonder who ever said that drummers were limited to merely cymbals and drums??? sounds a bit weird to me... (apart from the fact that one can do= an AWFUL lot "just" with cymbals and drums!!!) the limitation can only take place in the drummers' mind; otherwise he's = free to do what he wants to do, i'd say. i'm a drummer myself and do experimen= t with bizzare objects and household objects! plus some other things, too! patRice np: var=E8se, complete works nr: schmitt, tokyo tango - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Sax-bass duos Date: 02 Oct 2000 04:07:11 EDT How could I forget? Dolphy/Mingus--a great combo that never recorded as a duo. ...Actually, I don't believe Mingus ever recorded a duo album. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: MASADA in Brussels Date: 02 Oct 2000 10:38:10 +0200 (DST) hi does any of our Belgian members have some information on the November concert? location? tickets? thanks manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: MASADA in Brussels Date: 02 Oct 2000 12:38:49 +0200 > does any of our Belgian members have some information > on the November concert? location? tickets? Is there some kind of european tour planned? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius" Date: 02 Oct 2000 07:50:49 -0400 ------------------- Let's not confuse technique and musical nostalgia for "genius". ------------------- I repeat, "within a pop context". Ringo Starr is obviously not better than Elvin Jones, I think we all know that. But rock/pop music would be totally different if it wasn't for Ringo Starr. It's just like the Beatles in general, Any Jazz bassist can play better than McCartney, and Bill Frisell can play much better than Lennon or Harrison, so what are we saying ... that the Beatles are not genious?????? Please, NO :-) Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: Odp: MASADA in Brussels Date: 02 Oct 2000 13:51:07 +0200 Marcin Gokieli wrote: > > Is there some kind of european tour planned? > Marcin Gokieli > marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl > Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you > are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor marcin! in november, masada are playing three shows over here in europe. more details on the saudades webpage. patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ari" Subject: Re: MASADA in Brussels Date: 02 Oct 2000 13:47:32 +0200 Masada plays at the Audi Jazzfestival, 13/10 - 26/11 (www.audijazz.be). -) Masada: Koninklijk Circus, Brussels; 26/11, 20:00 h. -) Dave Douglas 'charms of the night sky': 22/10, 20:30 h, Ancienne Belgique, Brussels -) Arto Lindsay: 27/10, 20:30 h, Th=E9=E2tre 140, Brussels -) ... Don't know if Masada planned a Europe-tour. Ari. > does any of our Belgian members have some information > on the November concert? location? tickets? > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: MASADA in Brussels Date: 02 Oct 2000 14:33:57 +0200 Ari wrote: > Masada plays at the Audi Jazzfestival, 13/10 - 26/11 (www.audijazz.be). > > -) Masada: Koninklijk Circus, Brussels; 26/11, 20:00 h. > -) Dave Douglas 'charms of the night sky': 22/10, 20:30 h, Ancienne > Belgique, Brussels > -) Arto Lindsay: 27/10, 20:30 h, Th=E9=E2tre 140, Brussels > -) ... > > Don't know if Masada planned a Europe-tour. > > Ari. well, like i said, check the saudades webpage. i know for sure that they are playing three shows in november over here in europe. i remember one being in italy, one in belgium, can't remember the 3rd one though. patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Einstein played drums... Date: 02 Oct 2000 08:59:27 -0400 At 6:23 AM +0000 10/2/00, Tim Keenliside wrote: >How about Betty Wiggins from the Shaggs? Pure genius of a >different sort.. In the same league as "John," who drums on several Jandek tracks (and perhaps Jandek himself), which brings us back to...Denardo Coleman. I really do like the drumming on the Jandek albums, Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Re: Einstein played drums... Date: 02 Oct 2000 14:51:53 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:23 AM > How about Betty Wiggins from the Shaggs? Pure genius of a > different sort.. > I second this vote. Shaggs was the most genial band ever !!!! Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: violin Date: 02 Oct 2000 07:09:11 -0700 Oger wrote: > > Malcolm Goldstein Yes! How could I forget? Would be especially nice if some fine label would issue his collaboration (for large ensemble) with Archie Shepp, "Free at Last, Free at Last", which AFAIK existed *only* as an MLK-day broadcast on NPR back in 86 or so ... surely the tapes exist somewhere ... -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: Einstein played drums... Date: 02 Oct 2000 16:27:05 +0200 ---- Van: Tim Keenliside Aan: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Datum: maandag 2 oktober 2000 8:26 Onderwerp: Einstein played drums... >How about Betty Wiggins from the Shaggs? Pure genius of a >different sort.. > > According to Claire Golls autobiography 'Everything is vanity' (or something like that) Einstein wasn't too bad on the violin. He might even have been a great player, says Goll, if he hadn't chosen a wrong direction. So... Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: Le Quan Ninh tour dates Date: 02 Oct 2000 09:38:38 -0500 (CDT) jon abbey tells us: > US fans will get a rare chance to see Ninh next month. he's on a coast to > coast solo tour, confirmed dates below, thanks largely to the efforts of our > own Matt Wirzbicki. in NYC, I think he's playing Columbia University > somewhere, but last I heard, it wasn't confirmed yet. go see him if at all > possible. > 25 nov : Madison WI (Erie Art Museum) While he could be playing in Madison, and there is a State Street in madison, the Erie Art Museum is in Erie Pensylvania, (411 State Street), unless there is another Erie Art Museum also on a State Street except in Madison. There is an art center on state street (madsion), and it does have performance space...so maybe that's the place. > 26 nov : Minneapolis, MI I'm going to guess this should be MN (Minnesota) not MI (Michigan) whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: sorry, jerzy, but listen again, fool Date: 02 Oct 2000 11:23:22 -0500 > yeah yeah yeah...but who's a really awful drummer? > > from, > matt > Ringo Starr - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: again i disagree (perpetual drummer thread) Date: 02 Oct 2000 11:45:09 -0500 who was it that said Perhaps Denardo Coleman (Empty Foxhole -Blue Note) though, I really like that album anyway...... (?) empty foxhole is one of my fave ornette albums, if only because it stands out so much from the oovre. there's a genius naivete, a sorta savant quality to it, wide-eyed discovery feeling due to 12-year-old or so denardo's playing as well as ornette's first session on violin (trumpet as well? somebody help me.). but i don't mean to say it's a novelty record. it's a strong record, propelled by a competent and innovative drummer. so there. not sure how far beyond this prodigy status denardo propelled, however. i'll acccept that apparently he's a genius engineer or something, but he continues to be a good-only, not that provocative drummer today. i guess. kg np: ma/meyer/o'connor - appalachian journey - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Vandermark Five in Atlanta Date: 02 Oct 2000 12:18:35 EDT --part1_9.b4c1c59.270a0f5b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all- Passing on some info about upcoming shows in Atlanta from a periodic emailer I receive... << Euphonic Productions presents VANDERMARK FIVE featuring Ken Vandermark - reeds Dave Rempis - reeds Jeb Bishop - trombone, guitar Kent Kessler - bass Tim Mulvenna - drums 8:30pm, Tuesday, Oct. 3rd $10 at the door First Existentialist Congregation 470 Candler Park Drive, NE 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com Special thanks to: Earthshaking Music, The Highland Inn, Old Gold, Pure Productions, Savage Pizza, WREK 91.1FM UPCOMING EUPHONIC PRODUCTIONS EUGENE CHADBOURNE - guitar, banjo, vocals, etc. PAUL LOVENS - selected drums & cynbals, Stradivarius singing saw 9pm, Thursday, Oct. 12th $8 at the door Earthshaking Music 543 Stokeswood Ave 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com THE DON'T LOOK BACK IN ANGER ENSEMBLE featuring Jeremy Wilms - guitar Andrew Barker - drums Andrew Burnes - bass 9pm, Friday, Oct. 13th $5 at the door Earthshaking Music 543 Stokeswood Ave 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com EYEDRUM MUSIC FESTIVAL featuring Shaking Ray Levis Harald Kimmig & Carl Ludwig Huebsch Gezoleen Konx Rob Mallard Pam Howe Stetson Fitz Alison Kendra Hunt Marshall Avett Rizzudo Saturday, Oct. 14th doors open at 5 pm, show starts at 6pm $10 at the door includes refreshments Eyedrum 253 Trinity Avenue, NW sponsored by WREK, Old Gold & Euphonic Productions 404-522-0655 or www.eyedrum.org SAMAHDA ENSEMBLE featuring Chris Case - piano, alto sax Peter Hickey - bass, clarinet Keith Leslie - drums 8:30pm, Thursday, Oct. 19th $7 at the door First Existentialist Congregation 470 Candler Park Drive, NE 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com FRANK GRATKOWSKI - reeds plus special guests TBA 9pm, Saturday, December 2nd $7 at the door EYEDRUM 253 Trinity Avenue, NW 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com >> --part1_9.b4c1c59.270a0f5b_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-st03.mail.aol.com (rly-st03.mail.aol.com [172.31.34.2]) by air-yd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 09:07:49 -0400 Received: from rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (rly-yg04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.4]) by rly-st03.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA28610; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 09:02:49 -0400 Received: from [38.30.92.43] (ip43.jacksonville3.fl.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.92.43]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA26716; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 06:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200010021302.GAA26716@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> x-sender: murphyjones@mail.earthlink.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Euphonic Productions presents VANDERMARK FIVE featuring Ken Vandermark - reeds Dave Rempis - reeds Jeb Bishop - trombone, guitar Kent Kessler - bass Tim Mulvenna - drums 8:30pm, Tuesday, Oct. 3rd $10 at the door First Existentialist Congregation 470 Candler Park Drive, NE 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com "I love this music. V5 is Vandermark's most active band and the primary vehicle for his compositional perspective." John Corbett - Downbeat "His melodies twist and angle, recalling some of the best Jazz writing in recent years. He negotiates lines, rhythms, and harmonies, often at full speed with unmitigated power. He seems most comfortable with his quintet, which although it substitutes members now and then, keeps the faith with unmistakable clarity." Steven A. Loewy - Cadence "The Vandermark 5's respect for the tradition manifest itself in their sure-footed playing rather than by self-conscious and facile allusion, and that is the hallmark of the V5's current dynamism." Julian Crowley - The Wire "Each player dug into the music with a fire and enthusiasm that belied its intricacy. The 5 is where Vandermark sews it all together; swinging hard bop, blazing guitar rock, steaming free jazz, and remorsely tight JBs-style funk. He may solo with confidence and abandon, but most of all he plays the band. Vandermark's compositions give each soloist ample opportunity to do his thing, showcasing Jeb Bishop's burbling trombone language and serrated-edge electric guitar, Dave Rempis' well-oiled alto sax, and Kent Kessler's lower-than-you-know bass bowing. But equally impressive is the way the band stops and starts, pumps and pulses its way through Vandermark's sharp-angled musical mazes with nary a false step. Drummer Tim Mulvenna's split-second temporal adjustment glued it all together." Bill Meyer - Signal to Noise "Vandermark's band tends to move over and through their horn charts like a land rover working the fields. Granted, this is not swing music, and not a big band, but the impact and spirit is strangely reminiscent of days gone by." John Ephland - Downbeat V5 discography: Burn The Incline (Atavistic 212) 2000 Simpatico (Atavistic 107) 1999 Target Or Flag (Atavistic 106) 1998 Single Piece Flow (Atavistic 47) 1997 Atavistic Records, Chicago's broadest musical shoulders deliver the goods just for you at: www.atavistic.com Special thanks to: Earthshaking Music, The Highland Inn, Old Gold, Pure Productions, Savage Pizza, WREK 91.1FM UPCOMING EUPHONIC PRODUCTIONS EUGENE CHADBOURNE - guitar, banjo, vocals, etc. PAUL LOVENS - selected drums & cynbals, Stradivarius singing saw 9pm, Thursday, Oct. 12th $8 at the door Earthshaking Music 543 Stokeswood Ave 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com THE DON'T LOOK BACK IN ANGER ENSEMBLE featuring Jeremy Wilms - guitar Andrew Barker - drums Andrew Burnes - bass 9pm, Friday, Oct. 13th $5 at the door Earthshaking Music 543 Stokeswood Ave 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com EYEDRUM MUSIC FESTIVAL featuring Shaking Ray Levis Harald Kimmig & Carl Ludwig Huebsch Gezoleen Konx Rob Mallard Pam Howe Stetson Fitz Alison Kendra Hunt Marshall Avett Rizzudo Saturday, Oct. 14th doors open at 5 pm, show starts at 6pm $10 at the door includes refreshments Eyedrum 253 Trinity Avenue, NW sponsored by WREK, Old Gold & Euphonic Productions 404-522-0655 or www.eyedrum.org SAMAHDA ENSEMBLE featuring Chris Case - piano, alto sax Peter Hickey - bass, clarinet Keith Leslie - drums 8:30pm, Thursday, Oct. 19th $7 at the door First Existentialist Congregation 470 Candler Park Drive, NE 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com FRANK GRATKOWSKI - reeds plus special guests TBA 9pm, Saturday, December 2nd $7 at the door EYEDRUM 253 Trinity Avenue, NW 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com tmj/ep ______________________________________________________ |euphonic productions is a not-for-profit organization |dedicated to presenting diverse perspectives in music. * --part1_9.b4c1c59.270a0f5b_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: murray'n'drums Date: 02 Oct 2000 12:25:42 -0500 jeffcalt hypothesized: I think David Murray's probably done a sax/drum duo album (hell, he must've with 80+ albums under his belt) well, his duo with milford graves, 'the real deal' i believe it's called, on diw is fantastic, and probably of interest to this list. he also did a great record with jack dejohnette called 'in our style', but of course when dealing with dejohnette you're hardly talking about simply a drummer. 'golden sea' with kahil el'zabar, on sound aspects, with el'zabar qualifying as both drummer and percussionist by the slightly arbitrary perimeters established here, on sound aspects and i think out of print, is a beautiful disc. i think murray's output probably triples the 80+ estimate above. i've heard him say his discography is around 300, many small releases on european labels. i also heard him say one time that if he could do whatever he wanted, he'd just play in the park with a drummer all day every day. . (that little speck you see is a grain of cybersalt). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: certainly I'll do it [was]: sorry, jerzy, but listen again, fool Date: 02 Oct 2000 18:38:25 +0200 Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 6:23 PM > > > yeah yeah yeah...but who's a really awful drummer? > > > > from, > > matt > > > > Ringo Starr OK Kurt, I'm ready to change my opinion, but gimme, bitte, some tips for searching Ringo's genius. FWIW - I'm the fan of "The Beatles" from 1965.. It is /was/ greatest band ever /not The Shaggs :))/ but IMHO Ringo was the soft underbelly of group. regards Jerzy NP - Jimmy Page & The Black Crowes "Live at the Geek" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: murray'n'drums Date: 02 Oct 2000 12:59:52 EDT kurt_gottschalk@scni.com writes: > i think murray's output probably triples the 80+ estimate above. i've heard him > say his discography is around 300, many small releases on european labels. Yeah, i meant albums as leader--which, at last count, was 87. According to this disco, he's done another 65 with groups and others: http://members.tripod.com/go54321/dm/davidmurray.html#disco But, there are probably more on small European labels and such, as Kurt said. Pretty good for a guy who debuted in 1976. So, who's more prolific: Murray or Zorn? Thanks for the album suggestions. jeff caltabiano n.p. richard davis: forest flowers - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re[2]: murray'n'drums Date: 02 Oct 2000 13:06:26 -0500 >So, who's more prolific: Murray or Zorn? i'd say zorn's taken the title in the last few years. kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jacob melville" Subject: Re: violin Date: 02 Oct 2000 11:24:11 MDT RE: VIOLIN PLAYERS Last year, I was visiting my sister in Ottawa, Canada, and she took me to a show at the National Gallery. There was a trio playing called Seppuku. The main guy in the band played violin and cello. Does anyone know his work? Mark Molnar (maybe I spelled it wrong?). It was improv within compositions, and he was out of this world. Both on violin and cello. I'd put him up there with everyone we've been talking about. It was unbelievable. During the middle of a long violin piece, he wove the strangest melody in and out of a HUGE vocalulary of sounds, and there were people around me CRYING. I've never seen anything like it. I talked to him after the show and bought a CD. He was really humble and really intelligent. He plays all the instruments on the CD, and it is very quiet and personal, but the live performance was damn powerful. Does anyone know where he's from? Has anyone seen him perform? My sister said he was performing in Montreal at the same place that the Vandermark 5 just played at, sometime in October... is anyone going? I'm in New York and won't be able to make it. So, check him out if you can. Jacob > >From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" ><< Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is >violin. >Violinists that I appreciate are: >Zbigniew Seifert /was/ >Didier Lockwood >SugarCane Harris >Leroy Jenkins >Charles Burnham >David LaFlamme > >Any others? >> > >In a different kind of music, I suggest : >Carlos Zingaro >Malcolm Goldstein > >And in a creative jazz feeling kind of music : Mat Maneri > >Jacques Oger > > > > >- > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: selfcriticism and organs Date: 02 Oct 2000 19:25:57 +0200 Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:02 PM > > ringo, im(not so)ho, is something like mccoy in the coltrane quartet, altho i > like ringo far more. the coltrane quartet was such a perfect ensemble that i > wouldn't want to alter it, even if there were better players around. > > > listen to your fave beatle songs and try and think who you'd rather have behind > the kit. watts? bonham? moon? nope. he was great because he was a considerable > part of making some really great records, dig? > > kg Ok, Ok. Kurt. Let's meet halfways. My post in which I've annihilated Ringo was really stupid and crude /shooting without thinking, It's oh so easy, alas/. I was /am/ real asshole. He wasn't /isn't/ genius but wasn't also "most awful drummer". Once again - Beatles was my first rock love and I'll faithful til I'll die to them. Tell me please, who in your opinion was the best organ player in the rock realm between 67-72. Alan Price? Billy Preston? Gary Brooker? John Lord? Bo Hansson? With highest respect Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: selfcriticism and organs Date: 02 Oct 2000 18:54:34 +0100 > Tell me please, who in your opinion was the best organ player in the rock > realm between 67-72. > Alan Price? > Billy Preston? > Gary Brooker? > John Lord? > Bo Hansson? Aren't we getting a bit far away from the point of this list? Besides, there's no contest - Hugh Banton from Van Der Graaf Generator ;-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: selfcriticism and organs Date: 02 Oct 2000 13:16:48 -0400 Depending how far you stretch "rock": Miles Davis. As on trumpet, not a lot of notes, but the right ones at the right time. On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 06:54:34PM +0100, Alastair Wilson wrote: > From: Jerzy Matysiakiewicz recently: > > > Tell me please, who in your opinion was the best organ player in the rock > > realm between 67-72. > > Alan Price? > > Billy Preston? > > Gary Brooker? > > John Lord? > > Bo Hansson? > > Aren't we getting a bit far away from the point of this list? Besides, > there's no contest - Hugh Banton from Van Der Graaf Generator ;-) > > - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Re: selfcriticism and organs Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:15:07 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 9:06 PM . >fave organs? dag, you catch me off guard. my fave organ track might be the > velvet's 'murder mystery,' although that hardly counts as an organ player. > (cale, i'd guess?) given the multiple choices, i'd have to give it to billy p. > > kg VU - oh, you surprised me. Yes, that was John Cale, indeed. I'm thinking rather about "groovy" players, just like Billy P. Oh, I've nearly forgot Graham Bond and Dave Greenslade /Colosseum/ {next thread should "The Sax Players who plays two saxes simultaneusly like Dick Heckstall-Smith & Roland Kirk" -:))} Pozdrawiam Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: classic guide to strategy Date: 02 Oct 2000 11:28:58 -0700 (PDT) josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) wrote: >I recall reading that Zorn did a solo sax rec., but >the title escapes me. it's The Classic Guide to Strategy, and if you don't own it then you don't have it. But you should go buy it, because it's one of those albums that won't let you close your mouth. Also, another Zorn duo album--since we're on the subject of duos and all--is the great Ganryu Island, with Sato Michihiro on shamisen and Zorn on reeds ala The Classic Guide to Strategy and Locus Solus. Ganryu Island, when I first heard it, kept me awake all night (with my mouth open). Incidentally, did anyone on this list see Locus Solus live? I know it's a long shot, but... SNA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy Subject: Marisa Monte Date: 02 Oct 2000 11:45:05 -0700 Brazillian singer/guitarist Marisa Monte has employed the talents of a few of our buddies on her three previous albums. Her brand new one (her fourth), is called "Memories, Chronicles and Declarations of Love" and is out on Metro Blue records. Produced my Arto Lindsey, there are a few names of note in the credits: Melvin Gibbs, Marc Ribot, Greg Cohen and Joey Baron. Thought you might like to know. == todd == Comfort the disturbed, disturb the comfortable - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: re: Einstein was a drummer/Ringo Starr Date: 02 Oct 2000 11:54:22 -0700 (PDT) While we're on the Einstein/music thing, you know that he wrote a lot about music, right? But a composer friend of his said that he didn't have an ear to play music...I think, but I don't remember, exactly... speaking of percussionists, what about Cyro Baptista? oh yeah, and THE BEATLES WERE BORING (ARE EVEN MORE BORING NOW) THE BEATLES WERE OVERRATED (ARE OVERRATED) THE BEATLES DIDN'T INVENT THE GODDAMN SITAR NO ONE FRIGGIN CARES WHO THE WALRUS WAS (hopefully) THE BEATLES WROTE GOOD POP SONGS GOOD *POP* SONGS and I don't want to impose a high/low-brow hierarchy here, but pop(ular) music is designed, performed, and packaged to appeal to the largest amount of people and sell the largest number of units...while that does take a certain amount of skill (not that much), it's more about advertising, trend-mongering, and the cult of personality than musicianship. so, maybe when we talk about pop drummers as geniuses, we should really be talking about their agents or their label's advertising executives--those are the real geniuses of the radio-friendly commodity game Sigmund respect-pop-music-for-what-it-is Nonanima (who had the Merzbow quote about noise and pop?) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: Re: Caspar Brotzmann question Date: 02 Oct 2000 15:00:29 EDT Ryan wrote: <> I have some problems with the bass playing on Mute Massaker too--although a good friend of mine in Berlin did it. I find it to be pretty near invisible in the mix. I've come tot he conclusion that playing bass behind Brotzmann must be one of the most thankless--and maybe pointless--roles in music. I mean, whad're'ya supposed to do there except thump along. Especially on a record like Mute Massaker which was near completely improvised in the studio. You need to be a remarkable bass player to add your two cents, and unfortunately Otto's actually a guitarist. I'm waiting for the day CAspar records a record that's ENTIRELY solo. As for Koksofen: Like I mentioned, I just got that CD. I'll be listening to it more in the coming weeks. Part of the thing with it was, it didn't seem to be nearly as in your face as some of CAspar's other records. More moody, even ambient in places. There was one place, near the end I think, where he was coaxing fairly quiet (for him) sounds out of his instrument that sounded like the crashing of electric waves on a metal beach. Jerry B. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linares Hugo Subject: RE: Marisa Monte Date: 02 Oct 2000 16:02:38 -0300 As far as I'm concerned, the recording is great and well worth listening to. Just my 2 pesos from "Mercosur" Hugo Linares > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Todd Bramy [SMTP:tbramy@oz.net] > Enviado el: Lunes 2 de Octubre de 2000 3:45 PM > Para: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Asunto: Marisa Monte > > Brazillian singer/guitarist Marisa Monte has employed the talents of a few > of our buddies on her three previous albums. Her brand new one (her > fourth), is called "Memories, Chronicles and Declarations of Love" and is > out on Metro Blue records. Produced my Arto Lindsey, there are a few names > of note in the credits: Melvin Gibbs, Marc Ribot, Greg Cohen and Joey > Baron. Thought you might like to know. > > > > > == todd == > > Comfort the disturbed, disturb the comfortable > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: sax/drum duos Date: 02 Oct 2000 15:06:56 EDT When I was living in Germany, I heard a fairly longish duel, maybe ten, fifteen minutes long, between Coltrane and Elvin, just the two of 'em, on the radio. I believe it was recorded live somewhere. It was really incredible, but I've never been able to figure out when it was recorded or if it's ever been released. Any one out there have any ideas? jb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: in defense of ringo (getting long) Date: 02 Oct 2000 15:20:10 -0500 i've just realized that while i've been writing jerzy about 60s pop one-on-one, his responses have been going out to the list. now i doubt that any of you are really keeping score at home, but here's my msg back to ol' jerz about giving ringo a chance. (damn, i'm gonna get roasted for the tyner comment tho) >>> >Ringo was the soft underbelly of group. (j said) well, yes, but y'gotta realize that all you're saying is that he was a talent among geniuses. i would give john, paul and george that honorific, and it's no discredit to ringo to say that he's not quite. ringo, im(not so)ho, is something like mccoy in the coltrane quartet, altho i like ringo far more. the coltrane quartet was such a perfect ensemble that i wouldn't want to alter it, even if there were better players around. the beatles for much of their quite short career propelled each other and worked as a unit. ringo was obviously a big part of that sensibility. i don't think it was just a gift to let ringo sing 'that boy.' i imagine he inspired it, if not through actual events then through his personality. same with 'yellow submarine.' but for drumming, it's more the solid foundation laid under whatever the other three wanted to throw that is to be appreciated. 'tomorrow never knows' is probably the obvious example, but the regulated flurry on earlier songs, i dunno, like 'i wanna hold your hand,' define the sound. it's not the way another drummer woulda done it. and on the solo yoko stuff, like yoko ono/plastic ono band, his chops are surprising. like the other three, he was stretching out as the 60s wore on. also, it's worth noting that ringo holds the record for most consecutive years with a top 10 single (group or solo). in 1970-72, while the other three released pointedly backbiting records (to varying degrees) without charting singles, ringo was the success. granted those aren't great records, but he's the one that rose above and carried on the popularity that i'm sure fans wanted (tho i was not yet 5). prince, i believe, is #2. listen to your fave beatle songs and try and think who you'd rather have behind the kit. watts? bonham? moon? nope. he was great because he was a considerable part of making some really great records, dig? >>> oh yeah, and, sigmund, who said: but pop(ular) music is designed, performed, and packaged to appeal to the largest amount of people and sell the largest number of units...while that does take a certain amount of skill (not that much), it's more about advertising, trend-mongering, and the cult of personality than musicianship. so, maybe when we talk about pop drummers as geniuses, we should really be talking about their agents or their label's advertising executives--those are the real geniuses of the radio-friendly commodity game well, i was like 3 when they broke up (although i do remember john chancellor announcing it), so i'm not speaking firsthand, but my impression is that they truly were breaking ground, in a way perhaps not possible today. i think they were pretty much calling the shots and, i don't think, pandering to any thoughts of marketability (unless it's the marketing to expanded, acid-drenched minds). what you say is surely true today, but i think that's a byproduct of the huge phenomena the beatles created, rather than the other way around. anyway, mess tho it was, the beatles were (more or less) their own label and ad execs, at least at the end. correct me if i'm wrong. kg np: kalaparusha maurice mcintyre - forces and feelings - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Five Thesis Against Beatles according to Sigmund Date: 02 Oct 2000 21:20:21 +0200 | oh yeah, and | THE BEATLES WERE BORING (ARE EVEN MORE BORING NOW) | THE BEATLES WERE OVERRATED (ARE OVERRATED) | THE BEATLES DIDN'T INVENT THE GODDAMN SITAR | NO ONE FRIGGIN CARES WHO THE WALRUS WAS (hopefully) | THE BEATLES WROTE GOOD POP SONGS | GOOD *POP* SONGS | and I don't want to impose a high/low-brow hierarchy | here, High/low-brow hierarchy is now dead and gone . The time and the people's memory is the highest judge. Who knows what kinda music and records will be appreciate by the offsprings of our offsprings. Kagel or rather the Beatles /or Monkees maybe/. Berio or perhaps Sinatra. Lutoslawski or Presley Which movies - boring-high-brow Antonioni, or rather long-time-denied-low-brow Leone. I really dunno :(( but I deeply disagree with your "Five Thesis' against Beatles". Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: sax/drum duos Date: 02 Oct 2000 21:30:52 +0200 Brennansf@aol.com wrote: > > When I was living in Germany, I heard a fairly longish duel, maybe ten, > fifteen minutes long, between Coltrane and Elvin, just the two of 'em, on the > radio. I believe it was recorded live somewhere. It was really incredible, > but I've never been able to figure out when it was recorded or if it's ever > been released. Any one out there have any ideas? > hi there! if memory serves right, there is a coltrane/jones duo piece entitled "vigil" on the grp cd "transition"; it's 9'41" long, recorded in 1965 (June 16). patRice nr: samuel; interviews with messiaen np: the best of bbc tv themes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Adam Taylor Tierney Subject: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius" Date: 02 Oct 2000 14:41:20 -0500 (EST) The way we're using the word "genius" here strikes me as being a tad bizarre. If you look outside of the art world, "genius" is usually used to denote someone who is able to perform complex mental tasks with unusual skill and speed. Ringo may be an "innovator", but according to this definition I would argue that he's not a "genius". In fact, I would limit "genius" to one or two people per decade, but that's me. I'm curious; using my definition, who would you guys call a modern musical "genius"? --Adam Tierney (Sorry about all the parentheses, I find that annoying myself) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linares Hugo Subject: RE: Five Thesis Against Beatles according to Sigmund Date: 02 Oct 2000 16:41:53 -0300 I do agree that The Beatles were/are/will be overrated. They wrote good pop songs, but that doesn't make things clear. I do prefer their songs played/destroyed by other artists, but it's just an opinion. Probably the Five Thesis is not wrong at all, but it's a good point to be discussed. Hugo Linares. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Jerzy Matysiakiewicz [SMTP:jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl] > Enviado el: Lunes 2 de Octubre de 2000 4:20 PM > Para: zorn lista > Asunto: Five Thesis Against Beatles according to Sigmund > > > | oh yeah, and > | THE BEATLES WERE BORING (ARE EVEN MORE BORING NOW) > | THE BEATLES WERE OVERRATED (ARE OVERRATED) > | THE BEATLES DIDN'T INVENT THE GODDAMN SITAR > | NO ONE FRIGGIN CARES WHO THE WALRUS WAS (hopefully) > | THE BEATLES WROTE GOOD POP SONGS > | GOOD *POP* SONGS > | and I don't want to impose a high/low-brow hierarchy > | here, > > High/low-brow hierarchy is now dead and gone . > The time and the people's memory is the highest judge. > Who knows what kinda music and records will be appreciate by the > offsprings > of our offsprings. > Kagel or rather the Beatles /or Monkees maybe/. > Berio or perhaps Sinatra. > Lutoslawski or Presley > Which movies - boring-high-brow Antonioni, or rather > long-time-denied-low-brow Leone. > I really dunno :(( > but I deeply disagree with your "Five Thesis' against Beatles". > > Jerzy > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Re: Five Thesis Against Beatles according to Sigmund Date: 02 Oct 2000 21:58:56 +0200 >. I do prefer | their songs played/destroyed by other artists, but it's just an opinion. | Long live de/con/struction made by Laibach on "Let it Be" but down with Westbrook's manipulations on "Off Abbey Road". ole-low-brow-Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Le Quan Ninh tour dates Date: 02 Oct 2000 16:16:15 +0000 on 10/2/00 2:38 PM, Whit Schonbein at whit@twinearth.wustl.edu wrote: > jon abbey tells us: > >> 25 nov : Madison WI (Erie Art Museum) > > While he could be playing in Madison, and there is a State Street in > madison, the Erie Art Museum is in Erie Pensylvania, (411 State Street), > unless there is another Erie Art Museum also on a State Street except in > Madison. Not that the Erie Art Museum knows of... Rick Lopez, in Erie PA, who is attached to it at the wrists and elbows. ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re:...and organs Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:24:10 -0000 >Tell me please, who in your opinion was the best organ player in the rock >realm between 67-72. Keith Emerson (only with the Nice!) Mike Ratledge (Soft Machine) Dave Stewart (Egg) Brian Auger Graham Bond Irmin Schmidt!(Can) _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Re: Re:...and organs Date: 02 Oct 2000 22:30:12 +0200 | Dave Stewart (Egg) Oh, yeah, but don't foget 'bout great "Arzachel" LP with Steve Hillage Jerzy np - Amen Corner - "If Paradise Is Half As Nice" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: beatles....no zorn content. sorry for the unrelated post. Date: 02 Oct 2000 17:06:41 EDT >>It's just like the Beatles in general, Any Jazz bassist can play better than >>McCartney, and Bill Frisell can play much better than Lennon or Harrison, so >>what are we saying ... that the Beatles are not genious?????? Please, NO :-) uh....WRONG! ANY jazz bassist can play better than McCartney? That's a ridiculously broad and unfounded statement...not to mention the fact that in no way is your definition of "better" defined. Same with Frisell, though i do think his compositions draw from a wider range of influences, and display a greater virtuosity...however, that does not necessarily make him more necessary or important. >>THE BEATLES WERE OVERRATED (ARE OVERRATED) In what what way? Outstanding melodies? New musical territory..perhaps without which many modern bands would have never existed? >>THE BEATLES DIDN'T INVENT THE GODDAMN SITAR Who said they did? They simply assimilated it into their music tactfully and usefully. >>THE BEATLES WROTE GOOD POP SONGS >>GOOD *POP* SONGS >>and I don't want to impose a high/low-brow hierarchy >>here, but pop(ular) music is designed, performed, and >>packaged to appeal to the largest amount of people and >>sell the largest number of units...while that does >>take a certain amount of skill (not that much), it's >>more about advertising, trend-mongering, and the cult >>of personality than musicianship. The Beatles were a pop act in the sense that were popular...however, they took chances musically that other bands at the time were not taking. This says that they had integrity although they made money...look at all of the bands they influenced? why, because they had lots of money? Their music far surpassed most rock music at the time in the realms of harmony, melody, production, orchestration, diversity/eclecticism, and creative output. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: muslimgauze Date: 02 Oct 2000 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT) I cruised to the "official" Muslimgauze site last night and was shocked to learn that Bryn Jones (aka Muslimgauze) died abruptly almost two years ago. I'd read some about his staggeringly huge catalog and hoped someone could direct me to some good recording to start with; stuff _you_ like. Descriptions would be appreciated, and if you're not comfortable OT-ing the Zorn-list, e.mail me off-list. Thanks in advance, as always, -----s NP: Arvo Part, "Te Deum" (ECM) NR: Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW (mmmmmm, big) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Spaans Subject: Re: MASADA in Brussels Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:08:23 +0200 (CEST) Hi, You can order the tickets for the Brussels concert at "Het Paleis van de Schone Kunsten" (Palais des Beaux Arts) at: +32-2-5078200 (I'm doing this by heart, (i've lost the little note I scribbled it on) but I'm pretty sure that was the number .... if it isn't please mail me ... I'm sure I can find out again what the number is). You can pay the tickets when you have a creditcard and they'll be send to you (also in the Netherlands). If you don't have a creditcard you can pre-order them and pick them up in Brussels (and pay them there in cash). Bye, Leon Spaans On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Emmanouil Papagiannakis wrote: > hi > does any of our Belgian members have some information > on the November concert? location? tickets? > > thanks > > manolis > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Ringo/Beatles Date: 02 Oct 2000 17:15:48 -0400 Just can't think of the Beatles as boring!!!!!!!!!! NEVER!!!!!! Greatest Band on Earth - call it *POP*, call it whatever you want. It's not nostalgia (i'm 21). I won't say anything more about it. OASIS on the other hand ... :-) Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. RECOIL - liquid - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Larry Young was: Re:...and organs Date: 02 Oct 2000 14:31:11 -0700 At 1:24 PM 10/2/00, Tim Keenliside wrote: >>Tell me please, who in your opinion was the best organ >player in the rock >>realm between 67-72. > >Keith Emerson (only with the Nice!) >Mike Ratledge (Soft Machine) >Dave Stewart (Egg) >Brian Auger >Graham Bond >Irmin Schmidt!(Can) > Of this list, probably Ratledge, but... Larry Young is my all-time favorite organist, rock or jazz (and I'd argue that Young's best work was definitely a combination of the two). I was recently given a Hammond Organ, through a bit of amazing luck, and I've been on a mission to transcribe a bunch of Young's material. I've been searching for a few of his records, and was wondering if anyone here might have copies they'd sell, trade or copy: Larry Young: Of Love and Peace, Blue Note, 1966 Larry Young: Contrasts, Blue Note, 1967 Larry Young: Heaven on Earth, Blue Note, 1968 Larry Young: Lawrence of Newark, Perception, 1973 -This made the Wire's list of the 100 best records you never heard a couple of years ago. Features Sonny Sharrock. Larry Young: Spaceball, Arista, 1975 Larry Young: Fuel, Arista, 1975 -These last 2 are generally considered awful attempts at crossover fusion, but I'd still at least like to hear them. Young's presence has made a few otherwise pretty bad records listenable (Mclaughlin/Santana's Love Devotion & Surrender, Tony Williams Ego). ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: zorn uptown manhattan show? Date: 02 Oct 2000 17:41:34 -0400 I got a flyer for a zorn chamber music concert uptown around lincoln center and now I have lost it and forgotten the name of the venue. Anyone know of the event here in manhattan in the next few months or early next year at a jewish focussed institution of somesort? THANKS! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: beatles....no zorn content. sorry for the unrelated post. Date: 02 Oct 2000 17:48:52 -0400 I will preface this with saying that I am a Beatles fan and have been for some time... I agree with the definition of Pop Music, but the Beatles transcended merely pop music. In some ways they transcended rock. They "took risks," that weren't really such. No one without millions of fans could make something like The White Album popular. It sold solely by the grace of them being the Beatles. Where The White Album is interesting, it isn't worthy of the attention it received. It sounds like the went into the studio and screwed around. In their defense, their screwing around sounds a lot better than most of us "people of average intellect" would sound. Experimentation is allowed more freely when a person or group establishes a reputation for genius. Not all Zorn albums are brilliant, but "they are" because he's Zorn (No slander against Mr. Zorn, I love the guy as much as any). If experimentation can be seen as such not as genius, then I'm fine with it. &c. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: violin Date: 02 Oct 2000 18:04:23 -0400 Hello, >Last year, I was visiting my sister in Ottawa, Canada, and she took me to a >show at the National Gallery. >There was a trio playing called Seppuku. >The main guy in the band played violin and cello. >Does anyone know his work? >Mark Molnar (maybe I spelled it wrong?). >(...) >My sister said he was performing in Montreal at the same place that the >Vandermark 5 just played at, sometime in October... is anyone going? >I'm in New York and won't be able to make it. That would be Casa del Popolo. It is not listed on the calender they have on the constellation web site (http://www.cstrecords.com/html casadelpopolo.html): 10.04 Parts Unknown (T.O.), Detroit Metal 10.06 Sackville 10.07 Alien8 night 10.13 Great Balancing Act (Moncton) 10.15 monthly spoken word night 10.19 1-Speed Bike (record release), The Radio Orchestra, Technot 10.21 Umetik Umetum 10.24 Tarantel (USA) 10.28 American Devices On the other hand, their board list much more thing than this list... Maybe somebody with a better memory visited the Casa recently? I would probably go, your description sounds interesting. Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 02 Oct 2000 18:11:45 -0400 Hello list, I've been enjoying a lot Bill Laswell's reocnstructions albums. I have Miles Davis Panthalassa's, Bob Marley's Dreams of Freedom, Imaginary Cuba, Emerald Aether (the Irish one). What else reconstructions are out there? Thanks in advance Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. CIBO MATTO: viva! la woman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Seppuku Date: 02 Oct 2000 15:33:32 -0700 (PDT) >From: "jacob melville" Subject: Re: violin >RE: VIOLIN PLAYERS >Last year, I was visiting my sister in Ottawa, >Canada, >and she took me to a show at the National Gallery. >There was a trio playing called Seppuku. >The main guy in the band played violin and cello.Does >anyone know his work? >Mark Molnar (maybe I spelled it wrong?). >It was improv within compositions, and he was out of >this world. Both on >violin and cello. I'd put him up there with everyone >we've been talking >about. It was unbelievable. Hey, I actually met Mark Molnar at the Victo Festival last year. He wasn't performing, but he and a friend did see me trying to figure out how to work a parking slip machine- "I'm American, how do you work this machine?". Though that was never forgotten, I ended up watching a lot of the shows with him and his friends. Nice guy, as well as his friends. >During the middle of a long violin piece, he wove the >strangest melody in >and out of a HUGE vocalulary of sounds, and there >were people around me >CRYING. I've never seen anything like it. I'm very interested to hear that, since I never saw him play live. I like the recording a lot, but that sounds really impressive. >quiet and personal, but the live performance was damn >powerful. >Does anyone know where he's from? He's from Ottawa as far as I know. I think there was an email contact on his disc where you might find out about performance dates too, if you haven't already tried. And I bought his CD at the Black Tomato in Ottawa on my journey home, a place his friend ran where you can eat, drink and listen to CDs before you buy. They had lots of avant-garde/cool stuff there too. Very nice to give a listen to things first, not many places do that. Wish something like that was nearer me. Anyway, Ryan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philippe Dupuis Subject: Mark Molnar & Seppuku Date: 02 Oct 2000 19:58:07 +0000 -RE: VIOLIN PLAYERS -Mark Molnar (maybe I spelled it wrong?). mark is a good friend of mine and i would say that humble & intelligent are two very good words to describe him. in fact, i've JUST finished a 16mm short film called Hopeful Losers - which he did the soundtrack for. it got played in Moncton's (New Brunswick) FICFA film festival a couple of weeks ago. the music is divided in two themes/ characters and consists of i) string work (violin, cello, viola) ii) percussive work (cymbals, wood blocks and guitar) -Has anyone seen him perform? i haven't had the chance to see him perform, but i have his Seppuku album called The Awesome Houses of Earth's Innocents. it's on the Spectra Sonic label ... http://www.spectrasonic.com/newsite/ he also plays with two other bands (that i know of) called Rake and Brandon Walsh. martin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "graham connah" Subject: p. haynes Date: 02 Oct 2000 16:04:14 -0700 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3053347454_1581096_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit jeff C. said: This was actually {Haynes'} first-ever show on the West Coast, altough him and Golia have performed together in New York. Great performance. not so. at yoshi's in oakland in 94 with ben goldberg, and again there earlier this year with golberg again. jeff also said: How could I forget? Dolphy/Mingus--a great combo that never recorded as a duo. .. perhaps not intentionally. but their duet on "i can't get started" from wuppertal, 4-26-1964, is on an Enja release called Mingus In Europe. their duet on These Foolish Things from Stuttgart 4-28-64 was bootlegged on the fantastic Mingus In Stuttgart (unique jazz label). sorry bout the MIME, can't seem to get it to go aw==4)=-+?:x'"""ay. graham - - --MS_Mac_OE_3053347454_1581096_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable p. haynes jeff C. said:
 This was actually {Haynes'} first-ever show on the West Coast, altoug= h
him and Golia have performed together in New York.  Great performance.=  

not so. at yoshi's in oakland in 94 with ben goldberg, and again there earl= ier this year with golberg again.




jeff also said:

How could I forget?  Dolphy/Mingus--a great combo that never recorded = as a
duo. ..

perhaps not intentionally. but their duet on "i can't get started"= ; from wuppertal, 4-26-1964, is on an Enja release called Mingus In Europe. = their duet on  These Foolish Things from Stuttgart 4-28-64 was bootlegg= ed on the fantastic Mingus In Stuttgart (unique jazz label).


sorry bout the MIME, can't seem to get it to go aw=3D=3D4)=3D-+?:x'""&q= uot;ay.


graham
- - --MS_Mac_OE_3053347454_1581096_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jacob melville" Subject: re: SEPPUKU Date: 02 Oct 2000 17:04:08 MDT I just talked to my sister. She phoned Casa del Popolo to get tickets for SEPPUKU. They will be playing there on October 17th. No idea who is opening for them, and she had no idea what his band will be. I found an interview with Mark Molnar from SEPPUKU at www.iam.bubblegumcage.com Matthieu, you said you'd check it out? Let me know how it goes. I'm not in Canada right now and I can't go. Ryan, What is the Black Tomato? A Restaurant that sells CD's???? Is that what you said???? (weird). Another violinist to add to the list is Iva Bittova, who was at the Victoriaville festival too (if i remember correctly). Has anyone ever seen her perform? I saw her in Munich with Tom Cora and it was great. She's quite an artist!!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: p. haynes Date: 02 Oct 2000 19:30:01 EDT connah@earthlink.net writes: > not so. at yoshi's in oakland in 94 with ben goldberg, and again there > earlier this year with golberg again. well, maybe someone should remind him. or perhaps i heard 'em wrong...maybe it was just the first time he'd played LA. I thought I heard emcee Alex Cline announce something like "first time on the West Coast, right Phil?" ah, minutiae. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:33:51 GMT >From: "Neil H. Enet" > I've been enjoying a lot Bill Laswell's reocnstructions albums. I have >Miles Davis Panthalassa's, Bob Marley's Dreams of Freedom, Imaginary Cuba, >Emerald Aether (the Irish one). > >What else reconstructions are out there? Sapho, "Digital Sheika" Aisha Kandisha's Jarring Effects, "Shabeestation" Boris Feoktistov, "Russian Chants" Somma I, "Hooked on Light Rays" Pharoah Sanders, "Message From Home" If you like rap, Material, "Intonarumori" _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: beatles white album Date: 02 Oct 2000 19:51:32 -0400 At 05:48 PM 10/2/00 -0400, &c. wrote: >No one without millions of fans could make something >like The White Album popular. It sold solely by the grace of them being= the >Beatles. Where The White Album is interesting, it isn't worthy of the >attention it received. It sounds like the went into the studio and screwed >around. In their defense, their screwing around sounds a lot better than >most of us "people of average intellect" would sound. You're correct about screwing around. George Martin always said he wished he could have edited it down to one excellent disc. But more importantly, I use the White Album, specifically Revolution #9, as a reference point for my current tastes, because it's the only musique concr=E8te that many people are likely to have ever heard. Zappa was doing it in the 60s too, but no one remembers Only Money the way they do the White Album. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re: Beatles...and organs Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:57:04 -0000 On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:30:12 +0200 Jerzy Matysiakiewicz wrote: > Dave Stewart (Egg) >Oh, yeah, but don't forget 'bout the great "Arzachel" LP with Steve Hillage > ...or their later collaboration on 'Space Shanties' by Khan, Hillage's band with the drummer and bassist from 'Crazy World of Arthur Brown', which leads us to Vincent Crane, and some pretty amazing rock organisms with Atomic Rooster! As for the Beatles, they were certainly more than a pop group, they were a social and cultural phenomenon, and as it goes, I would not have gotten into all this great musick, if not for them! They opened up everyone's ears to new sounds, their use of the sitar (predated by the Yardbirds for what that's worth) meant everyone 'discovered' and listened to Indian classical music. When McCartney namechecked Stockhausen, we all went looking for his records, a Capt. Beefheart poster in a photo of Lennon led us to 'Safe As Milk'. Their instrumental abilities mean nothing in the context, they were merely a conduit for a veritable flood of new concepts that burst into public consciousness from the 'beat' underground. If anything, they were 'divinely' inspired, and certainly props should go to George Martin, the studio 'genius' who translated their ideas into reality. There is no musician who followed them, who remains untouched by their influence! Please, do yourself a favour, go and listen to 'Tomorrow Never Knows', 'I Am The Walrus', 'Strawberry Fields Forever', 'Revolution #9', 'Inner Light', 'A Day In The Life', and then try to convince us that they were an overrated mediocre pop band.. _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: muslimgauze Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:59:33 GMT >From: Scott Handley >I cruised to the "official" Muslimgauze site last >night and was shocked to learn that Bryn Jones (aka >Muslimgauze) died abruptly almost two years ago. I'd >read some about his staggeringly huge catalog and >hoped someone could direct me to some good recording >to start with; stuff _you_ like. Descriptions would >be appreciated, and if you're not comfortable OT-ing >the Zorn-list, e.mail me off-list. The Muslimgauze I like best is the pre-distortion stuff, circa 1993: "Veiled Sisters," "Salaam Aleikum Bastard," "Vote Hezbollah," and "Zulm." Unfortunately, only Veiled and Zulm are in print. The heavier, dubbier stuff would include "Arab Quarter," "Narcotic," "Observe with Sadiq Bey," "Hussein Mahmood Jeeb Tehar Gass." My favorite is probably "Narcotic." The distorted stuff includes "Farouk Engineer" and "Mazar-I-Sharif." Some of it gets pretty repetitive, especially the late era stuff. But he's still one of the more fascinating innovators of electronica going, using rhythms, voice samples etc. There's a free CD download on the aforementioned site called "Jebel Tariq" which is pretty representative. Since he was so prolific, most of the work is released in very limited editions and goes out of print all the time. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: p. haynes Date: 02 Oct 2000 17:15:43 -0700 >>>not so. at yoshi's in oakland in 94 with ben goldberg, and again there earlier this year with golberg again.<<< First ever Los Angeles performance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: p. haynes Date: 02 Oct 2000 17:22:52 -0700 >>>not so. at yoshi's in oakland in 94 with ben goldberg, and again there earlier this year with golberg again.<<< First ever Los Angeles performance. It is hard for us to admit the West Coast keeps going north of us. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Vandelaar" Subject: Violinists & geniuses Date: 03 Oct 2000 09:56:56 +0930 Sherlock Holmes Cheers, Michael - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: graewe et. al. Date: 02 Oct 2000 21:50:46 -0500 Whit Schonbein wrote: > the dissapointment lies in the fact that graewe's duo album with frank > kutowski (sp) (who plays tenor sax) is great, as is his work with the > graewe / risinjer/ hemingway trio. these works are, in my opinion, > essential As is, for my money, one of the greatest free improv CDs I've heard yet, 'Spellings' by Frisque Concordance, released in 1995 on the Random Acoustics label. The rest of the group: John Butcher, Hans Schneider and Martin Blume. Breathtaking. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - bad new TV show with Oliver Platt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Rautavaara Date: 02 Oct 2000 21:58:53 EDT For all of you who were kind enough to share your wealth of knowledge and time with me concerning my classical music question last week, I've just received the first three of five Rautavaara CDs I ordered. (I actually ORDERED six CDs, but only five of them were in stock.) Disc one -- The Flute Concerto -- is not as good as the Violin Concerto I heard on the radio last week, but it is still a beautiful and challenging piece. Highly recommended. I hope the Violin Concerto will arrive tomorrow. And again, thanks for all your help. Cheers, Tom ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: orrick@earthlink.net Subject: Vinny Golia Date: 02 Oct 2000 21:25:57 -0500 With a recent mention of Vinny Golia, I'd like to mention an upcoming performance. He will be in St. Louis, Missouri on Saturday October 14 at the Steinberg Auditorium on the campus of Washington University. His quintet will include guitarist Nels Cline, percussionist Alex Cline, bassist Scott Walton and John Fumo on trumpet. This concert is part of the New Music Circle subscription series and more information can be found at New Music Circle (http://members.nbci.com/nmcstl/index.html). thanks for this brief promotion Orrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: the real McCoy Date: 02 Oct 2000 19:42:32 -0700 (PDT) kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: >ringo, im(not so)ho, is something like mccoy in the >coltrane quartet >(damn, i'm gonna get roasted for the tyner comment >tho) damn right, but I think, perhaps, that any shame you may be experiencing due to your slight anti-Tyner comment might hurt more than the verbal/signifier lashing you should recieve. the mean bastard __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: drummers, sax and bass, etc. Date: 02 Oct 2000 22:44:29 -0500 Joseph Neff wrote: > George Hurley of the Minutemen. The jazziest punk drummer I've ever > heard. Yeah, I always thought it would be mighty sassy to hear George and Mike Watt behind Ornette... Anyone know what he's up to, post Red Krayola? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Albert Ayler, "Spirits," 'Spiritual Unity' (ESP) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: L'Avventura Date: 02 Oct 2000 19:51:38 -0700 (PDT) perhaps my misspellings and such will attest to my...whatever, anyway, I think L'Aventura is an amazing fuckin film--it may be boring in the conventional sense (but Mozart is boring in the conventional sense), but it takes titanic amounts of courage, insight, and subtlety to make a film like that, regardles off where its brow is and, btw, I think Leone movies are great--but, in a point made by...I forgot and already deleted the mail...but in a point made by a fellow lister, pop standards, if you will, are different today than they were in the sixties+/-, and Leone films surpass nearly any western made recently, pop or fop I know I'm offending people, but that's what it's all about, to keep us on our toes and ready to defend or reevaluate (usually defend, I guess) our thinkings in the face of beligerent pricks like me! :) love, Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: weird restaurants Date: 02 Oct 2000 19:55:46 -0700 (PDT) >Ryan, What is the Black Tomato? A Restaurant that >sells CD's???? Is that >what you said???? (weird). Yeah that's it. I had some sort of bruschetta thing I think, and listened to a Jomes Blood Ulmer CD and also some King Tubby dub thing, neither of which I bought but only because I didn't have much cash then- like now. Now that I think about it, I really should have bought the King Tubby CD despite- that was pretty cool. Anybody know this guy? Blind Idiot God's dub stuff seems highly informed by him. I do know that he's dead unfortunately. Anyway, yeah, it does indeed exist as I described it- at least it did a year ago. Hopefully it still does. Or was it a dream? :~) ---Ryan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Mark Molnar Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:04:53 -0700 > - -RE: VIOLIN PLAYERS > - -Mark Molnar (maybe I spelled it wrong?). > > he also plays with two other bands (that i know of) called Rake and > Brandon Walsh. > Hmmm, interesting. I'm a friend of Jamie, the drummer from Rake, and he had mentioned that they play with a cellist recently (we live about 3000 miles apart, so I haven't seen them play). Did you happen to see the "Rakestar Arkestra" gig (Rake's CD release party), where a bunch of Ottawa musicians did Sun Ra material? Was Molnar part of it? It sounded like quite a show. Supposedly it was videotaped, and there will be a copy on the way to me as soon as someone finds the original!! Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Metal Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:07:34 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C02CC5.8CA6E060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can any one recommend good metal bands with female lead singers? ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C02CC5.8CA6E060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can any one recommend good = metal bands with=20 female lead singers?
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C02CC5.8CA6E060-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jacob melville" Subject: RE: Mark Molnar/Rakestar Orchestra Date: 02 Oct 2000 21:29:59 MDT I didn't see the Rakestar thing, but my sister did. She said that Mark Molnar did in fact play cello as part of the band. She sent me a review of the show a few months back. I can't find it (i think i deleted it), but she said that he was added unearthly sounds to the horns, except for two solos that he took which were (in her words) "overwhelming". If there's a video tape, I'd love to see it. I screwed up the webpage that I listed in the last e-mail. The SEPPUKU interview with Mark Molnar is at: http://www.webspotter.com/bubblegumcage/ Mathieu, I hope the Seppuku show goes well. I am envious. I'd give alot to see him perform again. I hope he comes to New York soon. Is the soundtrack he did going to be released? Jacob _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:32:58 -0700 (PDT) ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: >>THE BEATLES WERE OVERRATED (ARE OVERRATED) >In what what way? Outstanding melodies? New musical >territory..perhaps without which many modern bands >would have never existed? New musical territory...? >>THE BEATLES DIDN'T INVENT THE GODDAMN SITAR >Who said they did? They simply assimilated it into >their music tactfully and usefully. okay, I didn't mean that LITERALLY, but to hear people --not necessarily on the list--rant about how the Beatles introduced middle-Eastern music to the west et cetera ad nauseum... "Tactfully and usefully"? So, it was expedient...but I would hope that's not a criterion for great music (although it sometimes works out) >Their music far surpassed most rock music at the time >in the realms of harmony, melody, production, >orchestration, diversity/eclecticism, and creative >output. THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION. Sigmund Nonanima sez that he know this may all seem personal, but it's not, it's truly something that bugs him, and he's often seen weeping in frustration when in the presence of Beatle idolators. Sigmund's gonna get kicked off the list, isn't he? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius" Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:31:13 EDT In a message dated 10/2/0 12:42:29 PM, you wrote: <> Uri Caine, Don Byron, Joe Henderson, Terry Adams skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: your mail Date: 02 Oct 2000 22:57:13 -0400 On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 08:32:58PM -0700, Sigmund Nonanima wrote: > >>THE BEATLES DIDN'T INVENT THE GODDAMN SITAR > >Who said they did? They simply assimilated it into > >their music tactfully and usefully. > > okay, I didn't mean that LITERALLY, but to hear people > --not necessarily on the list--rant about how the > Beatles introduced middle-Eastern music to the west et > cetera ad nauseum... The musical (or geographical) acuity of the poster may be gauged by his identification of the sitar as "middle-Eastern". *sheesh* -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: Zappa/Beatles Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:40:20 -0700 (PDT) "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: >I use the White Album, specifically Revolution #9, as >a reference point for my current tastes, because it's >the only musique concrete that many people are likely >to have ever heard. Zappa was doing it in the 60s >too, but no one remembers Only Money the way they do >the White Album. I think one of the reasons no one (re: popular mind) remembers Zappa/Mothers albums like Beatles albums, is because people don't like to have their hypocrisies shoved in their face, as Zappa was wont to do. Sigmund edging-closer-to-being-kicked-off-the-list Nonanima __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius" Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:00:25 -0400 On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 11:31:13PM -0400, Velaires@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/2/0 12:42:29 PM, you wrote: > > < "genius"?>> > > Uri Caine, Don Byron, Joe Henderson, Terry Adams Brian Eno, Ornette Coleman, Robert Ashley, Alvin Lucier, John Lewis... -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: the real McCoy Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:41:43 EDT I must say that I, jazz pianist, tend to agree here. I'm definitely not the only one I know. I feel absolutely no shame either. McCoy pre-Trane, however, is quite nice. Yet, while acknowledging the analogy and applying it to McCoy/Trane, I think Ringo was fine in the Beatles. -Matt Mitchell In a message dated 10/2/00 10:43:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, absurdbastard@yahoo.com writes: << kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: >ringo, im(not so)ho, is something like mccoy in the >coltrane quartet >(damn, i'm gonna get roasted for the tyner comment >tho) damn right, but I think, perhaps, that any shame you may be experiencing due to your slight anti-Tyner comment might hurt more than the verbal/signifier lashing you should recieve. the mean bastard >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: concession stand Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:45:57 -0700 (PDT) "Tim Keenliside" wrote: >As for the Beatles, they were certainly more than a >pop group, they were a social and cultural >phenomenon, and as it goes, I would not have gotten >into all this great musick, if not for them! They >opened up everyone's ears to new sounds, their use of >the sitar (predated by the Yardbirds for what that's >worth) meant everyone 'discovered' and listened to >Indian classical music. When McCartney namechecked >Stockhausen, we all went looking for his records, a >Capt. Beefheart poster in a photo of Lennon led us >to 'Safe As Milk'. Their instrumental abilities mean >nothing in the context, they were merely a conduit >for a veritable flood of new concepts that burst into >public consciousness from the 'beat' underground. If >anything, they were 'divinely' inspired, and >certainly props should go to George Martin, the >studio 'genius' who translated their ideas into >reality. There is no musician who followed them, who >remains untouched by their influence! Please, do >yourself a favour, go and listen to 'Tomorrow Never >Knows', 'I Am The Walrus', 'Strawberry Fields >Forever', 'Revolution #9', 'Inner Light', 'A Day In >The Life', and then try to convince us that they were >an overrated mediocre pop band.. okay, I'm only 22, but I know what you're saying about them being a conduit and such (I'm trying to think of who my conduit is...) I'll grant you this stuff, and I change my GOOD POP SONGS to GREAT POP SONGS, but I never said they were mediocre... Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: bits from the guy offending the musical cultists Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Joseph Zitt wrote: >The musical (or geographical) acuity of the poster >may be gauged by his identification of the sitar >as "middle-Eastern". >*sheesh* um...what the hell are you talking about? Indian? what am I to say? Persian? Asian? Is this a culture-sensitivity thing? because, I honestly don't want to offend anyone in that way--just every other way. the irate ignoramus __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: Einstein was a drummer/Ringo Starr Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT) oh yeah, and THE BEATLES WERE BORING (ARE EVEN MORE BORING NOW) THE BEATLES WERE OVERRATED (ARE OVERRATED) THE BEATLES DIDN'T INVENT THE GODDAMN SITAR NO ONE FRIGGIN CARES WHO THE WALRUS WAS (hopefully) THE BEATLES WROTE GOOD POP SONGS GOOD *POP* SONGS and I don't want to impose a high/low-brow hierarchy here, but pop(ular) music is designed, performed, and packaged to appeal to the largest amount of people and sell the largest number of units...while that does take a certain amount of skill (not that much), it's more about advertising, trend-mongering, and the cult of personality than musicianship. so, maybe when we talk about pop drummers as geniuses, we should really be talking about their agents or their label's advertising executives--those are the real geniuses of the radio-friendly commodity game ---------------------- I agree in the sense that I find the Beatles overrated... they could have used editing, yes, but still, I think some of their works are just downright genius. I repeat. SOME. Like "Tomorrow Never Knows", which was probably the first techno song since it was constructed over a tape loop, sound fx, blah. Still, any Zappa from the 60s probably destroys them. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: apology Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:57:44 -0700 (PDT) well, okay, I feel like a jerk-ass-punk for that middle-Eastern thing...I gotta offer my butt for kickin on that one. Sorry. But I still think the Beatles are overrated. kind regards, Sigmund the Silly Bitch __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Prepared piano suggestion Date: 02 Oct 2000 20:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Hi I saw a Bravo Profile on John Cage yesterday (I taped it as well), and I was astonished by the few portions of prepared piano compositions they showed... any suggestions on such recordings??? np: Impaled/Trocar __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: bits from the guy offending the musical cultists Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:18:25 -0400 On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 08:52:59PM -0700, Sigmund Nonanima wrote: > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > >The musical (or geographical) acuity of the poster > >may be gauged by his identification of the sitar >as > "middle-Eastern". > >*sheesh* > > um...what the hell are you talking about? Indian? what > am I to say? Persian? Asian? > Is this a culture-sensitivity thing? because, I > honestly don't want to offend anyone in that way--just > every other way. "Middle-Eastern" is generally used to refer to stuff well west of the Indian subcontinent where the sitar is mostly found. (You really didn't know that? Amazing what information people can evade getting in grade school these days.) Not that I see why you find offending people something that you'd want to do anyway, unless there are still people out there trying out the extremely tired "shaking up the supposed boorzhwazee" meme, which one would hope had gone the way of the "Loser sneeze". -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Prepared piano suggestion Date: 02 Oct 2000 23:22:49 -0400 On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 08:59:36PM -0700, A wrote: > Hi > > I saw a Bravo Profile on John Cage yesterday (I taped it as well), > and I was astonished by the few portions of prepared piano > compositions they showed... any suggestions on such recordings??? Waitaminnit -- a Bravo Profile of John Cage? And I missed it? The schedule at http://www.bravotv.com/ doesn't mention one, though there was a profile of Yoko Ono scheduled... Could you have meant a mention of Cage on the Yoko show, or did i really miss something? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re:concussion stand Date: 03 Oct 2000 04:03:38 -0000 On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Sigmund Nonanima wrote: > >okay, I'm only 22, but I know what you're saying about >them being a conduit and such (I'm trying to think of >who my conduit is...) >I'll grant you this stuff, and I change my GOOD POP >SONGS to GREAT POP SONGS, >but I never said they were mediocre... > >Sigmund > As a postscript to my other post, and a much needed link to this list, I would just like to take this opportunity to say that I now see younger listeners who have come into Zorn's music from Mr. Bungle, Faith No More, Boredoms, Naked City etc. exploring diverse musics from all genres & cultures, in pretty much the same way the Beatles led their listeners into the garden of aural delights way back when...so perhaps he's your conduit too...that's a _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: weird restaurants Date: 03 Oct 2000 00:24:45 -0400 Ryan Novak wrote: > Now that I think about it, I really should have > bought the King Tubby CD despite- that was pretty > cool. Anybody know this guy? Blind Idiot God's dub > stuff seems highly informed by him. I do know that > he's dead unfortunately. Ahh, King Tubby. He produced tons and tons of what I consider to be great roots reggae and dub. Especially dub. I would've once said that his importance to modern music can not be overstated, but sometimes it is. That isn't to say that his work isn't great and spiritual and mind-expanding, it's just that the recent (last 3 years..) hyperbole that surrounds dub's place in "electronica's" history seems really out of whack to its actual public exposure. But the King Tubby that I love and recommend to anyone interested in dub technique and MOST IMPORTANTLY the successful transforming of a singles artform to one of collections are the cds King Tubby Meets Roots Radics: Dangerous Dub & Yah Congo meets King Tubby & Professor at dub table I'm also enamored of Burning Spear's "Garvey's Ghost" and Ras Michael and the Sons of Negus "Rastafari Dub" Really, anything that the label Blood and Fire have put out is essential, in my book. and I have nothing to say about the Beatles except that I was disappointed that there wasn't more footage of early Yoko stuff on that Bravo thing. Not enough discussion of those GREAT first four albums: Plastic Ono Band, Life with the Lions, Wedding Album, and Two Virgins. In my book, AND ONLY AN OPINION, better than anything the Beatles ever did (except MAYBE "Act Naturally" and "Within You Without You." Which is not to say that I didn't listen to the white album over and over when I was in high school...lord knows I don't want to set off another onslaught of emails) And speaking of sitars: Is anyone else on this list obsessed with Sitar/Pop crossovers besides the beatles? I did a radio show of all-sitar crossover stuff a couple of months ago that was well recieved. And delerium out of england is selling a six disc anthology of Sitarized 60's pop and psychedelia....I drool... matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: zorn uptown manhattan show? Date: 03 Oct 2000 00:49:33 -0500 Ian Farrell wrote: > I got a flyer for a zorn chamber music concert uptown around lincoln center > and now I have lost it and forgotten the name of the venue. Anyone know of > the event here in manhattan in the next few months or early next year at a > jewish focussed institution of somesort? Monday, October 16, 8 p.m., Merkin Concert Hall, 129 West 67th St., a few blocks north of Lincoln Center (or, for the discographically-minded, one block north of the Lincoln Center Tower Records), as I recall... Masada Quartet, Chamber Ensemble, and String Trio. Zorn's the new "Composer-in-Residence" at Merkin, or so I've heard, and, as such, has the ability to book "last-minute" shows into any previously-unfilled spaces in the schedule (same privilege he had at the Knitting Factory)... Check out (frequently) http://www.ekcc.org/merkin.html for more details. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Sir Michael Tippett, 'Ritual Dances from "The Midsummer Marriage,"' BBC Scottish Sym / Hurst (Naxos) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: L'Avventura Date: 03 Oct 2000 06:49:44 +0200 Sigmund wrote| | | I know I'm offending people, but that's what it's all | about, to keep us on our toes and ready to defend or | reevaluate (usually defend, I guess) our thinkings in | the face of beligerent pricks like me! :) | KEEP OFFENDING SIGMUND !! forgotten fellow lister low-brow-Jerzy np - Klaus Doldinger's Passport "Move" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: Prepared piano suggestion Date: 03 Oct 2000 06:50:48 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: "A" Do: Wyslano: 3 pazdziernika 2000 05:59 Temat: Prepared piano suggestion | Hi | | I saw a Bravo Profile on John Cage yesterday (I taped it as well), | and I was astonished by the few portions of prepared piano | compositions they showed... any suggestions on such recordings??? | | np: Impaled/Trocar | Ferrante & Teicher "Blast OFF" Jerzy np - The Zombies - "Odessey and Oracle" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: preachers of resignation? Date: 02 Oct 2000 22:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Joseph Zitt wrote (in reference to my admittedly ignorant & poor use of the term Middle-Eastern): >Not that I see why you find offending people >something that you'd want to do anyway, unless there >are still people out there trying out the extremely >tired "shaking up the supposed boorzhwazee" meme, >which one would hope had gone the way of the "Loser >sneeze". what's this? do I detect a hint of bitter resignation? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: preachers of resignation? Date: 03 Oct 2000 00:29:20 -0400 On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 10:03:13PM -0700, Sigmund Nonanima wrote: > Joseph Zitt wrote (in > reference to my admittedly ignorant & poor use of the > term Middle-Eastern): > > >Not that I see why you find offending people > >something that you'd want to do anyway, unless there > >are still people out there trying out the extremely > >tired "shaking up the supposed boorzhwazee" meme, > >which one would hope had gone the way of the "Loser > >sneeze". > > what's this? do I detect a hint of bitter resignation? If so, it means the detector is broken. Which is not a surprise. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: absurd bastard Date: 03 Oct 2000 06:00:59 GMT I'll jump to the defense of the absurd bastard and say that I too find the Beatles tiring and overrated, though I must agree that as a cultural phenom they are without parallel. The issue about whether Ringo was a good or bad drummer is moot though. "Bad" musicians can still make "good" music since musicianship is only one aspect of music. Musical sense is another, though for many that might in itself qualify one as a good musician despite "technical limitations." The word genius gets thrown around a bit too much as well, though we need not become jazz snobs in rejecting its use. If too many people are geniuses, then as a description the word loses value. But I'll disagree with the absurd bastard and say that L'Avventura stinks as a film. I find Antonioni to be the worst of the Italian auteurs. Fellini and Rossellini were much better in my opinion. (But if you like Antonioni, more power to your misrecognizing cathecting senses). Let's keep the absurd bastard on the list with his delightful "nonanima" title--So Aristotelian. Besides, he makes me laugh. NP: Don Cherry, Live Ankara, The Sonet Recordings (now that mutherfucka had a real musical sense--rest in peace, sweet cherry) NR: Philip Gourevitch, "We Wish to Inform You...Stories from Rwanda" JF: Frantz Fanon, "Black Skin, White Masks" (must reading--best explanation of colonial thinking and the psychology of racism around) B. Ashline "Intellectual alienation is a creation of middle class society. What I call middle-class society is any society that becomes rigidified in predetermined forms, forbidding all evolution, all gains, all progress, all discovery. I call middle class a closed society in which life has no taste, in which the air is tainted, in which ideas and men are corrupt....I am not a prisoner of history. I should not seek there for the meaning of my destiny. I should constantly remind myself that the real "leap" consists of introducing invention into existence. In the world through which I travel, I am endlessly creating myself."--Frantz Fanon _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 03 Oct 2000 09:23:09 +0200 (DST) >>>What else reconstructions are out there? HAVANA MOODS, double CD, one with "treated" pieces, one with originals, if you liked IMAGINARY CUBA you will probably like this (I do). I also once listened to another ne with Algerian (I think) music, and that was real haunting. Sorry, the title escapes me. manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: graewe et. al. Date: 03 Oct 2000 03:59:33 EDT In a message dated 10/2/00 9:53:56 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << As is, for my money, one of the greatest free improv CDs I've heard yet, 'Spellings' by Frisque Concordance, released in 1995 on the Random Acoustics label. The rest of the group: John Butcher, Hans Schneider and Martin Blume. Breathtaking. >> two somewhat related pieces of info here: first, Random Acoustics (co-run by Grawe), after a long, long dry spell, has just released four new CDs, including a Thomas Lehn solo disc. Georg told me the other three, but they're not coming to mind right now. it's good to see that one of the most interesting improv labels is back in business, though. secondly, Meniscus, a Minneapolis based label run by Jon Morgan, has also just released a Grawe trio CD, with Frank Gratkowski and Paul Lovens. I haven't heard this one yet, but the other Meniscus release just out is a solo Greg Kelley trumpet CD, which is one of my favorite releases of the year. if you don't know Kelley, he's half of the Boston-based nmperign (along with soprano sax Bhob Rainey), but this solo CD is by far the best thing I've heard from either of them, alone or together. I'm looking forward to seeing both Greg and Bhob live for the first time next weekend at the Autumn Uprising festival, along with the rest of the burgeoning Boston scene. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Re:violin Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:45:12 +0200 > Urbaniak of course. I prefer Seifert and I doesn't to overload my list with > the guys from my homelnad. Hi (Jerzy, milo spotkac rodaka), I've heard that Seifert has recorded an album with Scofield, deJohnette, and some famous bassist (maybe Eddie Gomez). Has anybody heard it? Is it avialable? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Masada In Prague Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:02:01 +0200 AH! They play in Prague the 27.11.2000! Is there anybody who could help me with the tickets for the show? Please... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 03 Oct 2000 09:20:38 GMT >From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis > >>>What else reconstructions are out there? > >I also once listened to another ne with Algerian >(I think) music, and that was real haunting. Sorry, >the title escapes me. Forgot to mention that one too. Lili Boniche, Alger Alger and the remix Boniche Dub--both on APC. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Re:...and organs Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:07:47 +0200 > | Dave Stewart (Egg) > Oh, yeah, but don't foget 'bout great "Arzachel" LP with Steve Hillage The same Dave Stewart that played in the first Bruford's band along with Jeff Berlin And Allan Holdsworth? I did not like the kbds sound on those albums Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor ----- Original Message ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius" Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:16:42 +0200 > > < > "genius"?>> > > Uri Caine, Don Byron, Joe Henderson, Terry Adams > Brian Eno, Ornette Coleman, Robert Ashley, Alvin Lucier, John Lewis... And there' s a guy from NYC who's really quite cool. His name is John Zorn ...;-) Happy to see someone else mention Eno among geniuses. I don't have to do it myself Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: classic guide to strategy Date: 02 Oct 2000 19:40:40 -0700 > >Incidentally, did anyone on this list see Locus Solus >live? I know it's a long shot, but... Which Locus Solus? I saw the Zorn/Horvitz/Mori version twice, and the Zorn/Lindsay/Fier version at least a dozen times, but I never caught the one with Blegvad and the DJ though. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Risser Family" Subject: Re: Einstein was a drummer/Ringo Starr Date: 03 Oct 2000 07:07:38 -0400 > THE BEATLES WERE OVERRATED (ARE OVERRATED) I used to think this too, when I was a child. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury Subject: Re: prepared piano Date: 03 Oct 2000 07:09:35 -0400 At 09:59 PM 10/2/00 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:59:36 -0700 (PDT) >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= >Subject: Prepared piano suggestion > >I saw a Bravo Profile on John Cage yesterday (I taped it as well), >and I was astonished by the few portions of prepared piano >compositions they showed... any suggestions on such recordings??? > Louis Goldstein's performance of Cage's "Sonatas and Interludes" --steve check out the cool new stuff on http://www.stephendrury.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Risser Family" Subject: Re: certainly I'll do it [was]: sorry, jerzy, but listen again, fool Date: 03 Oct 2000 07:22:11 -0400 > OK Kurt, I'm ready to change my opinion, but gimme, bitte, some tips for > searching Ringo's genius. > FWIW - I'm the fan of "The Beatles" from 1965.. It is /was/ greatest band > ever /not The Shaggs :))/ but IMHO Ringo was the soft underbelly of group. Okay, in the shortest sense possible: On the later stuff, listen to what he doesn't play, in a Davis-silence kind of way. No tom rolls, no cymbal crashes, no polyrhythms or chinese water gongs; nothing that isn't absolutely necessary. On some of the songs of the white album, he plays maybe two hits every measure, the picture of minimalism. It may be that he was just lazy, but as a drummer, I respect more the folks who convey the maximum amount of beat with the minimum amount of effort, and he did that. That's what I think anyway. I really did think that the Beatles were overrated for a long time. Shakespeare too. Then I got wise. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Risser Family" Subject: Re: Date: 03 Oct 2000 07:32:35 -0400 > Sigmund Nonanima sez that he know this may all seem > personal, but it's not, it's truly something that bugs > him, and he's often seen weeping in frustration when > in the presence of Beatle idolators. > > Sigmund's gonna get kicked off the list, isn't he? Nobody's gonna get anyone kicked off the list buddy, but remember that you aren't talking to a bunch of sixty year olds who collect every goddamn sneeze the Beatles ever recorded and call it "genius". These are true long-range, musical people who have a wide variety of tastes, experiences and opinions. So, these are the people who AREN"T falling for the hype. Nobody here is gonna back, say, Britney Spears or Celine Dion, the way they back the Beatles, just because it's the popular thing to do. If they say the Beatles have strengths and things worth listening to, next to Zorn and Merzbow and the Vandemark Five, it's probably because they do. That's all. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: Re:...and organs Date: 03 Oct 2000 13:52:18 +0200 | | The same Dave Stewart that played in the first Bruford's band along with | Jeff Berlin And Allan Holdsworth? I did not like the kbds sound on those | albums | Marcin Gokieli Then listen "Arzachel" and change your opinion. Kupisz u Lesniewskiego w Megadiscu Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Seifert and Polish Jazz Date: 03 Oct 2000 13:50:31 +0200 ----- Wiadomo=B6=E6 oryginalna ----- Od: "Marcin Gokieli" Do: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" ; Wys=B3ano: 3 pa=BCdziernika 2000 10:45 Temat: Odp: Re:violin | | Hi (Jerzy, milo spotkac rodaka), | I've heard that Seifert has recorded an album with Scofield, deJohnette= , and | some famous bassist (maybe Eddie Gomez). Has anybody heard it? Is it | avialable? | Marcin Gokieli Yez Marcin /czesc ziomku/ Seifert has recorded an album "Passion" with Scofield, Gomez and de Johnette. It's stil inavailable on CD. Only available material that I know is "Solo Violin" , two pieces on "Pol= ish All Stars - Jazz Jamboree '69" /cover disc to Jazzi Magazine tego lobuza Sobuli/ - Seifert plays only saxophone and "We'll Remember Komeda" with Stanko, Urbaniak, Dudziak, Attila Zoller, Roman Dylag, Peter Giger and Ar= men Halburian. Also one piece on the Oregon's compilation on Vanguard records. Many masterpieces of Polish Jazz from 6TS and 7TS, even 8TS, are still no= t available on CD's, what really pissed me of. Pamietasz pewnie serie "Poli= sh Jazz", czemu jej w calosci nie ma na cedesach ?? Cholera czlowieka bierze. Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Marsh Subject: ilhan mimaroglu Date: 03 Oct 2000 14:10:54 +0100 thought this might be the best place to ask... anyone know anything about ilhan mimaroglu and more specifically a tape piece by him called (i think) 'le tombeau d'edgar poe'? i heard it at an impressionable age (a few years ago) after buying an album called 'electronic music' in a junk shop. as it had a vaguely psychedelic cover i naturally assumed it would contain music along the lines of tangerine dream or klaus schulze. Instead, it was full of early musique concrete and electronics by the likes of walter carlos and it scared me shitless, but this one track (which i used to play to distraction - made a change from yes) still remains lodged in the back of my head, despite the disappearance of the record from my collection some years ago. i think mimaroglu went on to be a jazz producer and did some stuff for mingus in the 70's and maybe wrote some proper music for people with stringed instruments and suits, but this piece was a wonder - made in the early 60s and constructed entirely from a recording of mallarme's poem. i'm sure future sound of london sampled it a while back too. any help in tracking it down gratefully appreciated.... cheers peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu Date: 03 Oct 2000 08:43:08 -0400 This reminds me: I've also been looking out for some Mimaroghlu -- I remember an album of his named "Wings of the Delirious Demon" that blew me away ages ago. I vaguely recall that he ran the Finnadar album (on which there were also two albums I'd love to find again: Karen Phillips's "Spillihpnerak" and "Sleepers", a collection of lullabies by the likes of Pauline Oliveros, Daniel Goode, Annea Lockwood, TOm Johnson, etc.). Clues? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert van Heumen" Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu Date: 03 Oct 2000 15:32:52 +0200 peter, mimaroglu is great! i only heard one cd with a collection of electronic (tape) and acoustic stuff called 'criminal record', and it is amazing... got it at the new york city library. never heard about 'le tombeau d'edgar poe' though. do you know about any other cd's that are available? robert ..r.o.b.e.r.t.v.a.n.h.e.u.m.e.n. ..h.t.t.p.:././.h.a.r.d.h.a.t.a.r.e.a...c.o.m. http://hardhatarea.com ..r.e.c.o.m.m.e.n.d.e.d.m.u.s.i.c.a.n.d.n.o.n.m.u.s.i.c. .....f.o.e.h.n..h.i.d.d.e.n.c.i.n.e.m.a.s.o.u.n.d.t.r.a.c.k......c.i.n.e.m. a.t.i.c..m.u.s.i.c..s.o.u.n.d..n.o.i.r. .....v./.a..b.e.a.t.a.t.c.i.n.e.c.i.t.t.a.v.o.l.u.m.e.1......r.a.u.n.c.h.y. e.r.o.t.i.c..i.t.a.l.i.a.n..f.i.l.m.m.u.s.i.c. .....s.u.p.e.r._.c.o.l.l.i.d.e.r..h.e.a.d.o.n......t.e.c.h.n.o.f.u.n.k. .....e.l.e.c.t.r.o.n.i.c.e.y.e..n.e.u.r.o.m.e.t.r.i.k......s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e. c.h.n.o. .....r.i.c.h.a.r.d.h.k.i.r.k..a.g.e.n.t.s.w.i.t.h.f.a.l.s.e.m.e.m.o.r.i.e.s .....s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e.c.h.n.o. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert van Heumen" Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu Date: 03 Oct 2000 15:34:50 +0200 > This reminds me: I've also been looking out for some Mimaroghlu -- I > remember an album of his named "Wings of the Delirious Demon" that that one's on the cd i named (criminal record)... ..r.o.b.e.r.t.v.a.n.h.e.u.m.e.n. ..h.t.t.p.:././.h.a.r.d.h.a.t.a.r.e.a...c.o.m. http://hardhatarea.com ..r.e.c.o.m.m.e.n.d.e.d.m.u.s.i.c.a.n.d.n.o.n.m.u.s.i.c. .....f.o.e.h.n..h.i.d.d.e.n.c.i.n.e.m.a.s.o.u.n.d.t.r.a.c.k......c.i.n.e.m. a.t.i.c..m.u.s.i.c..s.o.u.n.d..n.o.i.r. .....v./.a..b.e.a.t.a.t.c.i.n.e.c.i.t.t.a.v.o.l.u.m.e.1......r.a.u.n.c.h.y. e.r.o.t.i.c..i.t.a.l.i.a.n..f.i.l.m.m.u.s.i.c. .....s.u.p.e.r._.c.o.l.l.i.d.e.r..h.e.a.d.o.n......t.e.c.h.n.o.f.u.n.k. .....e.l.e.c.t.r.o.n.i.c.e.y.e..n.e.u.r.o.m.e.t.r.i.k......s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e. c.h.n.o. .....r.i.c.h.a.r.d.h.k.i.r.k..a.g.e.n.t.s.w.i.t.h.f.a.l.s.e.m.e.m.o.r.i.e.s .....s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e.c.h.n.o. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: Metal Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:23:56 -0400 The first two are what one would call "Metal" but the rest also satisfy the necessary quotient of "heavy" in varying degrees/qualities to fall into the realm of "Heavy Noise That Would Satisfy Most Metal Heads"... Metal: Crisis, Kittie Digital Hardcore: Lolita Storm, Atari Teenage Riot, Ec8or Early 90s heavy alternative: Painteens, L7, Lunachicks, Hole, Babes in Toyland, Sonic Youth (especially the two albums Dirty and Goo), Free Kitten (Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth and Yoshimi from Boredoms making wacked out heavy noise), Boss Hogg, Silverfish, My Bloody Valentine Late 90s: Butter 08 (members of Spencer Davis Group and Cibo Mato), Donnas Japanese: Melt Banana, Sekiri, Shonen Knife Late 70s Los Angeles Hardcore Punk: X Late 70s London Punk: X-ray Spex Avant: Diamanda Galas Other: Runaways, Joan Jett, Pretenders, Janis Joplin Can any one recommend good metal bands with female lead singers? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: pop sitars Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:27:41 -0400 >And delerium out of england is selling a six disc anthology >of Sitarized 60's pop and psychedelia....I drool... Any more info? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Your Imaginary Friend) Subject: Re: Metal Date: 03 Oct 2000 09:39:30 -0600 Ian Farrell wrote: >Late 90s: >Butter 08 (members of Spencer Davis Group and Cibo Mato) Now *that* could've been an interesting record! However, it was a member of the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion... Jon M. _________________________ Radio Free Norman 96.7 FM http://radiofreenorman.20m.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: Metal Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:48:18 -0400 woops... typing a little too fast there... I also forgot Patti Smith and The Breeders! > From: fate@telepath.com (Your Imaginary Friend) > Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:39:30 -0600 > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Metal > > Ian Farrell wrote: > >> Late 90s: >> Butter 08 (members of Spencer Davis Group and Cibo Mato) > > Now *that* could've been an interesting record! However, it was a member of > the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion... > > Jon M. > > _________________________ > Radio Free Norman > 96.7 FM > http://radiofreenorman.20m.com > > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: quick logic lesson for our pal siggy Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:58:15 -0500 >>Their music far surpassed most rock music at the time >>in the realms of harmony, melody, production, >>orchestration, diversity/eclecticism, and creative >>output. >THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION. 'most' does not imply 'all' kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: zorn uptown, no zorn content Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:53:47 -0500 SSmithSaid: Monday, October 16, 8 p.m., Merkin Concert Hall, 129 West 67th St.... as I recall... Masada Quartet, Chamber Ensemble, and String Trio. steve, i hope you're right, but i think you're not. i don't think the "classic quartet" are on the bill, just bar khoba and the trio. advance tix are available for $20. kg np: anthony braxton - 3 compositions of new jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re:Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 03 Oct 2000 15:08:44 -0000 On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:23:09 +0200 (DST) Emmanouil Papagiannakis wrote: >>>>What else reconstructions are out there? > I just don't get it! Why not listen to the real thing? Or do you prefer to hear Wynton Marsalis play Louis Armstrong, Randy Hansen play Jimi Hendrix, etc. Why stop at the monkey when you can go straight to the organ grin _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: Metal Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:12:49 +0200 (MET DST) [dejeopardizing] >>>>> "Ian" == Ian Farrell writes: Ian> ---------------------------------------- From: "&c." Ian> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:07:34 -0400 Ian> To: Subject: Metal Ian>> Can any one recommend good metal bands with female lead Ian>> singers? Ian> Late 70s Los Angeles Hardcore Punk: X X was, at least until their first album was released, certainly more hardcore than, say, the Go-Go's, but I guess not as hardcore (at least in terms of attitude), as the Bags (aka Alice Bag Band) or Nervous Gender (but maybe they didn't have a female singer, I don't remember). The really hardcore bands, though, were the Germs, Black Flag, Circle Jerks (at least the Germs had a (nonsinging) female bass player). Though at the time, I don't think any of this was called metal... --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: brief history lesson (sorry, siggy) Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:14:25 -0500 The Absurd Bastard said: I think one of the reasons no one (re: popular mind) remembers Zappa/Mothers albums like Beatles albums, is because people don't like to have their hypocrisies shoved in their face, as Zappa was wont to do. *no one* remembers the mothers? hmmmm. some people even remember the fugs. fretting about what you consider "the popular mind" will give you wrinkles, my young friend. i don't think that people choose not to know music which, if they did know it, would shove their hypocrisies in their face. another logical failing, but i used to teach logic to 22-year-old punks like you and i'm in a forgiving mood this morning. the real reasons is as follows: zappa 1) didn't start off with a wide base of popularity on which to build his experimentation, b) was a damn lot weirder'n'fringier than the liverpool lads, and iii) was a freakin' smartass, a quality which usually doesn't have much of a shelf life. any shelley berman fans out there? nevertheless, cricket, keep chomping at the bit. we like the occasional upstart around here, or at least we should, or at least i do. but then, i still think the loser sneeze is funny. kg np: kahil el'zabar's ritual trio - africa n'dea blues - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Sax-bass duos Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:13:45 -0400 Yes, but there is (at least) one sax/bass track on one of the live records of the great, great Mingus 5tet. I can't remember the name of the tune they play but it's beautiful. Dan Hewins At 4:07 AM -0400 10/2/00, Jeffcalt@aol.com wrote: >How could I forget? Dolphy/Mingus--a great combo that never recorded as a >duo. ...Actually, I don't believe Mingus ever recorded a duo album. > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: brief history lesson (sorry, siggy) Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:40:57 -0400 On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 11:14:25AM -0500, kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > any shelley berman fans > out there? Yes! "Inside Shelley Berman" and "Outside Shelley Berman" were two of my favorite albums when I was a kid. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu Date: 03 Oct 2000 15:09:35 -0000 On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:43:08 -0400 Joseph Zitt wrote: >This reminds me: I've also been looking out for some Mimaroghlu -- Le Tombeau d'Edgar Allen Poe is on a Finnadar LP entitled Face The Windmills, Turn Left, no CD issue that I've seen yet, he also did an interested jazz/electronic mix with Freddie Hubbard called 'Sing Me A Song of Song My', that came out on Atlantic, that one might have had a short CD existence...he was the jazz A&R person for Atlantic Records, produced a number of straight jazz dates...Le Tombeau is one of the great tape electronic works! _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: zorn uptown, no zorn content Date: 03 Oct 2000 12:13:06 -0500 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > SSmithSaid: > Monday, October 16, 8 p.m., Merkin Concert Hall, 129 West 67th St.... as I > recall... Masada Quartet, Chamber Ensemble, and String Trio. > > steve, i hope you're right, but i think you're not. i don't think the "classic > quartet" are on the bill, just bar khoba and the trio. Kurt is correct. The quartet is not on the bill, just the trio and Bar Kokhba. Sorry for getting hopes up... :-P Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - cars on the road outside the window... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re[2]: zorn uptown, no zorn content Date: 03 Oct 2000 12:28:14 -0500 >Steve Smith >NP - cars on the road outside the window... I once saw on interview with Cage where he said that was his favorite thing to listen to... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Beatles issues (culture) Date: 03 Oct 2000 09:44:40 -0700 I just want to put my 2=A2 with respect to the Beatles. And this might have been said already on this list. As for someone in their mid-forties, The Beatles were a major cultural change. I remember the effect it had on me (as well as on American culture= ) when The Beatles went on Ed Sullivan tv show. I imagine it being as simila= r as watching the first man land on the moon, or the Berlin wall being torn down. =20 Whatever it was great timing or genius (probably both), it for sure changed my generation. A big sweeping statement, but it is the truth. As for thei= r music, I don't listen to them anymore. Basically for the reasons I listene= d to them zillion of times -and that's enough. But they were brilliant in that the whole culture looked up to them and rarely let (then) culture down= . It was remarkable to buy Beatle albums during that period. Each album brought a new aspect to adventure - it really opened up worlds. Again, I think they were in a sense sort of like living radio or transmitters just picking up what was happening on the street, in the media, and all of the isms of that decade. But they were there, and they reflect that culture quite well. They were fab! ciao, - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: zorn uptown, no zorn content Date: 03 Oct 2000 12:49:35 -0500 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > >Steve Smith > >NP - cars on the road outside the window... > > I once saw on interview with Cage where he said that was his favorite thing to > listen to... Ha! My sole credit as "record producer" is along those lines. It appears at the end of the second disc of the Koch International Classics John Cage tribute 'A Chance Operation.' My contribution was to stand on the corner of 18th Street and Sixth Avenue with a DAT recorder and tape the sounds of the street outside Cage's last apartment building. I felt pretty self-conscious doing it, which is why it delighted me to listen on headphones later. Towards the very end you can hear a woman walking past saying something like "... it was the stupidest thing I ever did..." A chance operation? I think not. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - wind rustling through the trees... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re[2]: zorn uptown, no zorn content Date: 03 Oct 2000 13:02:23 -0500 Steve Smith Says he Stood: on the corner of 18th Street and Sixth Avenue with a DAT recorder and tape the sounds of the street outside Cage's last apartment building. I felt pretty self-conscious doing it, which is why it delighted me to listen on headphones later. sounds like the same apartment he was in during the video interview i saw. but you listened to it on dat later? man, i wanna dub of that. i wanna walk up 6th ave. listening to it on my walkman! now THAT'S art! kg np: espn, police scanner, yelling librarian, hum of flourescent lights, my keyboard clicking and an editor on the phone. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re: Re: Date: 03 Oct 2000 13:08:47 -0500 The Risser Family shouted: Nobody here is gonna back, say, Britney Spears... ..i might. kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:37:40 -0700 (PDT) speaking of covers of Beatles tunes: PETER SELLERS! (his versions are, in my uninformed opinion, infinitely more entertaining than the originals) surprised-that-he's-still-on-the-list Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: New Derek Bailey Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:39:04 GMT Hello, I nearly had a hard attack when I saw in the new issue of The Wire that there is a new CD called "The String Theory" which is "composed by Derek Bailey" Composed!? Really!? But it seems very interesting anyhow. The add also mentiones that the CD is only made of feedback sounds. I "always" thought that Bailey was the best feedback guitarplayer, even it's very rare you get to hear it. Evan Parker mentioned somewhere that one of the reasons he started playing with the circular breething technique, was so he could play with Baileys extended feedback. Sounds very interesting! Any recordings of that? Actually, any recommendations on Bailey CDs with heavy feedback playing would be interesting. Has anybody heard the "String Theory" CD yet? And what about the review in The Wire of the new Alex Ward/Derek Bailey duo CD? I take the reviewer is joking most of the time... I NEVER heard about any Bailey CD called anything with "Plays The Music OF.." and what's that about religious cults?! Any comments? ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: New Derek Bailey Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:48:50 GMT I wrote: >I nearly had a hard attack when I saw in the new issue of The Wire Uh, hehe, that would be "heart attack"! ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: when I was a child Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Risser Family" wrote: >> THE BEATLES WERE OVERRATED (ARE OVERRATED) >I used to think this too, when I was a child. when I was a child, and an adolescent, I owned all but one or two of the Beatles albums available on CD. I loved them--although I never understood why everyone thought Sgt. Peppers was the best one... anyway, you can see that I have listened long and hard. In high school, I used to sit with Beatles songbooks and try to memorize all the chords (I already knew all the lyrics). but then I got bored. I hung on to the albums for a couple of years, if only to hear the countoff on Taxman or the production on a couple of the albums, but when I was 19 I finally got rid of all of them, gave them to my girlfriend (I probably should've traded them at a used music store, though). I still enjoy Revolution, and the end of Hey Jude makes me laugh like no other pop song. I could still sing the lyrics to most of the songs, if I heard them come on an oldies station. So, it's not like I've always disliked the Beatles and held these other controversial (for some damn reason) views. I used to dig with the crowd, too. Sinnin' Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: sitar/rap Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Matt Laferty wrote: >And speaking of sitars: Is anyone else on this list >obsessed with Sitar/Pop crossovers besides the >beatles? I did a radio show of all-sitar crossover >stuff a couple of months ago that was well recieved. how about sitar/rap? the NY rap group Company Flow has an amazing DJ, DJ Mr. Len (Space Ghost), who uses a great slinky sitar sample on "The Fire in Which You Burn." If anyone on the list is into rap--and I hope this might be so--check out Company Flow if you haven't already. "Funcrusher Plus" is the only album I've heard, but it's mindblowing. These guys are furious poets with impressive vocabularies--esp. for rap, which now seems to mostly consist of money, women, and clothing accessory terms. Sigmund Nonanima __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu Date: 03 Oct 2000 14:05:15 -0400 Someone must have mentioned it before but just in case, there's also a piece of his on "Columbia-Princeton Electronic Music Center 1961-1973" (New World, still in print): "Prelude No. 8 (To the memory of Edgard Varese)." Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: Peripatetic constructions and wop movies Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:16:34 -0700 (PDT) "Bill Ashline" wrote: >But I'll disagree with the absurd bastard and say >that L'Avventura stinks as a film. I find Antonioni >to be the worst of the Italian auteurs. Fellini and >Rossellini were much better in my opinion. (But if >you like Antonioni, more power to your misrecognizing >cathecting senses). I would rather watch Fellini, too, unless I'm feeling suicidal...then I'll pop in L'Avventura, which is a big mood. >Let's keep the absurd bastard on the list with his >delightful "nonanima" title--So Aristotelian. >Besides, he makes me laugh. that's my name, bro. There's a story about how my family got it, but I think it's only a story, and I won't relate it here. kindest regards, Sigmund, The Peripatetic Pugilist __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: locus solus Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Rich Williams wrote: >>Incidentally, did anyone on this list see Locus Solus >>live? I know it's a long shot, but... >Which Locus Solus? I saw the Zorn/Horvitz/Mori >version twice, and the Zorn/Lindsay/Fier version at >least a dozen times, but I never caught the one with >Blegvad and the DJ though. actually, I meant any of them... so, how were the shows? was the audience similar to the one on the Tzadik disc? did Zorn seem more pissed or pleased? sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Don Cherry Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:31:58 -0700 NP: Don Cherry, Live Ankara, The Sonet Recordings (now that mutherfucka had a real musical sense--rest in peace, sweet cherry) Indeed. Seeing him live in many settings from solo to Codona to Old & New Dreams, etc. remain among my most satisfying music experiences. [miss him miss him miss him] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: the biggest fool in the school Date: 03 Oct 2000 11:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Joseph Zitt wrote: >To the best of my knowledge, the organizer of the >list has never thrown anyone off the list, and >endeavours never to do so. You are far from the >biggest fool that he has encountered here, thank you, that means a lot to me. >so I feel safe in saying that he will continue to >ignore you until you give up. wait! do you think I'm TRYING to get kicked off the list? so then I could say: I'm so cool I got kicked off the ZORN LIST, man! I pissed off the list that celebrates the rebellious and the original! I'm not really trying to do that, because--despite all the crap I type and mistype and misunderstand--I love this list, and it's been a great source of knowledge and interplay for me. I just have problems keeping my "mouth shut". >You may now cease to be surprised. No, YOU may cease to be surprised. Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah, nyah! the childish churl, Sigmund P.S. this is the first place I've encountered more than one person to talk with about Zorn-related topics (although there's been some straying...), so naturally it has a place in my little black heart! :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: when I was a child Date: 03 Oct 2000 19:54:53 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: "Sigmund Nonanima" Do: Wyslano: 3 pazdziernika 2000 19:48 Temat: when I was a child | | when I was a child, and an adolescent, Gee, but YOU ARE still an adolescent , boy . Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Merzbow quote Date: 03 Oct 2000 20:08:33 +0100 Sigmund said: > (who had the Merzbow quote about noise and pop?) > Twas me, and it went "If noise means uncomfortable sound, then pop music is noise to me." - Masami Akita from the Wire interview a couple of months ago. For me it sums up UK top 40 music of the last five years or so. Production line boyz'n'bimbos for whom the music is purely secondary to becoming famous. Al "You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence." Joseph Conrad, "Heart of Darkness". - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: fluxus anthology Date: 03 Oct 2000 15:07:26 -0400 Does anybody know details about this CD? I found a few participants mentioned but can't tell if they're recordings from the 60s or more recent. Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Forward Motion State 51 Date: 03 Oct 2000 20:14:41 +0100 I'd just like to say a public thank you to Simon Hopkins for drawing my attention (via this list) to the Forward Motion event in beautiful downtown Shoreditch last Saturday. The whole vibe was great, and the Schutze/Bell/Hopkins trio excellent. Nice piece on the CD too. My only gripe was that too many people seemed to be there to talk, which made concentration difficult during even the medium-loud bits. Have a word, Simon! Any London based Z-listers shoud look out for any further events at http://motion.state51.co.uk/forward/, and look forward to buying beers with bears! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) Subject: Beatles Medley etc. Date: 03 Oct 2000 15:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Hello, ....must say that Eugene Chadbourne's "Beatles Medley" (1st side of "LSD C&W") is my favorite bit of Beatles deconstruction, probably because it doesn't just try to destroy the originals out of contempt, but simply alters (often radically so) the songs to fit Chad.'s style/vision. The medley features Zorn, Toshinori Kondo, Tom Cora, Kramer, David Licht, Scott Manning, and EC himself. My personal highlights are the Spike Jones in hell treatment of "Birthday" and the jazz lounge surrealism of "Octopus' Garden". Don't know if the 2LP has made the transition to CD, but if it has, I highly recommend it (for much more than just the Beatles med., natch). ...any opinions on the "Downtown Does the Beatles" comp. on Knitting Factory from a few years back? This whole Beatles thread has rekindled my interest in picking up that disc, if it's not OOP. The thing that tempted me in the first place was Chadbourne's "A Day In the Life". I remain.... Joseph "There's no boundary line to art" Charlie Parker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sen" Subject: Re: fluxus anthology Date: 03 Oct 2000 21:22:28 +0200 -----Message d'origine----- De : wlt4@mindspring.com =C0 : zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Date : mardi 3 octobre 2000 21:12 Objet : fluxus anthology >Does anybody know details about this CD? I found a few participants mentioned but can't tell if they're recordings from the 60s or more recen= t. > >Lang > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Conn Date: 03 Oct 2000 16:00:38 -0400 This is a long shot, but here goes... Does any one out there know what good mouthpiece would be for a big bore Conn bari sax (it's late nineteen-teens, I think 1918)? I'm looking for something that will boost projection with out making it squeaky (i.e. Duckoff) Just ignore this if you don't know or don't care. Thanks Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: New Derek Bailey Date: 03 Oct 2000 16:02:08 EDT In a message dated 10/3/00 1:40:24 PM, a_gadney@hotmail.com writes: << I nearly had a heart attack when I saw in the new issue of The Wire that there is a new CD called "The String Theory" which is "composed by Derek Bailey" Composed!? Really!? >> the caption on the Wire ad actually says "Unique project composed entirely of feedback". my guess is that composed was just an unfortunate choice of words by someone writing the Harmonia Mundi ad copy in a hurry. anyway, Trevor Manwaring, who runs Paratactile, told me that this won't be out for a few more weeks. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: boy Date: 03 Oct 2000 13:15:46 -0700 (PDT) "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" wrote: >>when I was a child, and an adolescent, >Gee, but YOU ARE still an adolescent , boy . boy? Gee, I don't know about your socio-cultural environment, but that's a racist slur where I come from. also, incidentally, I'm not an adolescent... biologically. and another thing: what does any of that have to do with the text surrounding the cut-and-pasted phrase? If you want to attack me for my views, you should address THOSE issues, not your own ag(e)ist prejudice. Uno-Brow Sigmund "The moment of signature is always affirmative, but it cannot ever quite affirm as triumphantly as it might wish: I may write in order to monumentalise or even immortalise my signature, but my signature also haunts everything I write as the weight of a past I would like to escape." --Geoffrey Bennington __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: re Date: 03 Oct 2000 16:41:56 EDT In a message dated 10/3/00 12:53:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << So, these are the people who AREN"T falling for the hype. Nobody here is gonna back, say, Britney Spears or Celine Dion, the way they back the Beatles, just because it's the popular thing to do. If they say the Beatles have strengths and things worth listening to, next to Zorn and Merzbow and the Vandemark Five, it's probably because they do. That's all. Peter >> God I love this list! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: the upstart starts up, and hits a logic wall because his cricket eyes were looking the other way Date: 03 Oct 2000 13:47:41 -0700 (PDT) kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote (in his quick logic and history lessons for our sorry pal siggy): >>>Their music far surpassed most rock music at the >>>time in the realms of harmony, melody, production, >>>orchestration, diversity/eclecticism, and creative >>>output. >>THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION. >'most' does not imply 'all' well, hell, I thought it did. but seriously folks, I think the Mothers were better than the Beatles--I recommend Ben Watson's The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play for more information. >i used to teach logic to 22-year-old punks like you god, that must have been a thankless job--although I can honestly say it can only be a good thing that someone does it. (and, seriously, do you still teach?) >zappa 1) didn't start off with a wide base of >popularity on which to build his experimentation, exactly >b) was a damn lot weirder'n'fringier than the >liverpool lads, exactly, again >and iii) was a freakin' smartass, a quality which >usually doesn't have much of a shelf life. but smartasses are usually--but not always--more entertaining than self-important cultural phenomena. and, personally, I can say that I've learned and continue to learn a lot more from Zappa and his bands than from the Beatles--both musically and socially (but mostly musically). >nevertheless, cricket, keep chomping at the bit. we >like the occasional upstart around here, or at least >we should, or at least i do. but then, i still think >the loser sneeze is funny. like them because it moves your ass, or because it settles it deeper in the groove? it doesn't seem to me that people like upstarts around here, unless they're published in some form, although I appreciate the sentiment. :) oh yeah, what was the loser sneeze again? love, Siggy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: PD: boy Date: 03 Oct 2000 22:49:15 +0200 | | boy? Gee, I don't know about your socio-cultural | | environment, but that's a racist slur where I come | | from. In my homeland, boy is just a boy, without ANY undertones. | | | also, incidentally, I'm not an adolescent... | | biologically. but mentally. regards Jerzy /48/ np - The Hope Blister "...smile's OK" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: sorry, no Beatles content Date: 03 Oct 2000 13:55:56 -0700 (PDT) does anyone know where Aube got his name? I think this may have been discussed recently, but I don't remember. Anyway, was it from the surrealist artist Aube? (kinda like Merzbau/ow?) okay sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:01:35 -0400 This issue with our absurd bastard as led me to question the average age of the posters on this list. I was under the impression that most of the group fell into the mid-20s age group. It sounds like the group is a lot older now. On a somewhat related note...are there many female members of this list? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: The life and times of my Boyish Mentality Date: 03 Oct 2000 14:00:24 -0700 (PDT) "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" wrote: | also, incidentally, I'm not an adolescent... | biologically. >but mentally. funny, I thought that was implied by its absence. but I do appreciate the typed completion of obvious dichotomies. with the goodest of will, surly Siggy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:14:04 -0400 I'm willing to bet that the average age on the list is higher than mid 20s...but I'm just going on a hunch. I am also going on the perceived maturity of posts and responses. On various indie rock lists I'm on, the posts and banter is often adolescent at best. There aren't any "we toos" to speak of on this list, which I really like. The people I personally know that are on this list are all over 26. I'm not female either. Dan Hewins At 5:01 PM -0400 10/3/00, &c. wrote: >I was under the impression that most of the group >fell into the mid-20s age group. It sounds like the group is a lot older >now. On a somewhat related note...are there many female members of this >list? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 14:19:23 -0700 I am 47 and look great in women's clothing. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Mills Subject: Sitar Date: 03 Oct 2000 14:20:43 -0700 >Is anyone else on this list > >obsessed with Sitar/Pop crossovers besides the > >beatles? > There is an Indian guy that lives in Santa Cruz, CA, Ashwin Bastish, that cranked a couple of sitar rock fusion albums. The Batish family counts a number of accomplished musicians as members. (At least that what it says on the website.) The family churns out their recordings through their tape dupliciation business. The fusion albums (Sitar Power #1, Sitar Power #2) are by no means startling. In fact they are downright goofy. Featured tracks include: New Delhi Vice, Bombay Boogie and Raga Rock! You can check 'em out at: http://www.batish.com/ashwin/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:32:09 +0000 on 10/3/00 9:19 PM, s~Z at keith@pfmentum.com wrote: > I am 47 and look great in women's clothing. I am 47 and look great in no clothing at all. RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: the upstart starts up, and hits a logic wall because his cricket eyes were looking the other way Date: 03 Oct 2000 16:58:13 -0400 On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 01:47:41PM -0700, Sigmund Nonanima wrote: > but smartasses are usually--but not always--more > entertaining than self-important cultural phenomena. Smartasses would like you to believe that that is the case. Those who do not fall into the category themselves tend not to enjoy them nearly as much. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: mimaroglu/hubbard Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:40:03 EDT you wrote: <> yes, a side label of atlantic. a great unreissued-in-usa disc of mimaroghlu with freddie hubbard: an anti vietnem protest piece "sing me a song of song my" on atlantic LP. i just sent a plea to koch to reissue it remastered and HDCDed. steve koenig laFolia.com NP: Denman Maroney/Hans Tammen (Potlatch Records) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 16:59:34 -0400 On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 05:32:09PM +0000, Rick Lopez wrote: > on 10/3/00 9:19 PM, s~Z at keith@pfmentum.com wrote: > > > I am 47 and look great in women's clothing. > > I am 47 and look great in no clothing at all. I am 42. Clothing looks great when I'm not in it. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: through the thick fog of a head cold, kurt transmits Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:40:42 -0500 sig filed: speaking of covers of Beatles tunes: PETER SELLERS! (his versions are, in my uninformed opinion, infinitely more entertaining than the originals) >>>tell more! but: In high school, I used to sit with Beatles songbooks and try to memorize all the chords (I already knew all the lyrics). but then I got bored. >>>as well you should have. that's not a statement about the quality of the music, however. (and, seriously, do you still teach?) >>>hell, no! oh yeah, what was the loser sneeze again? >>>don't (cough, cough) scuse me, but don't (coughcoughgeekcough) worry about it (cough) and josephneff axed: ...any opinions on the "Downtown Does the Beatles" comp. on Knitting Factory from a few years back? This whole Beatles thread has rekindled my interest in picking up that disc, if it's not OOP. The thing that tempted me in the first place was Chadbourne's "A Day In the Life". >>>yeah, day in the life is really nice. it's a medley, mostly beatles but he does work in 'on the road again.' defunkt's 'come together' and lydia lunch's 'why don't we do it in the road' also stand out. overall really great, i hope they haven't dropped it. first kf release i bought, too. and now, as your reward for having read this far: Merkin Hall Tuesday, November 21, 2000, 8 PM John Zorn, curator Erik Friedlander, cellist Single Tickets: $15 The first in a series of Last Minute Concerts to be announced by Zorn, this particular evening features the prominent New York cellist with his ensemble. For more information on this and other upcoming Last Minute Concerts, call the hotline at (212) 501-3333. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 17:46:48 -0400 Thanks for confirming that you are not a female, Dan. I'm glad for the lack of adolescent banter that is characteristic of other lists. The tone is serious, but when it does get silly it is witty and intelligent. There has been some age conflicts, so I'm really shocked that I haven't been flamed, yet. Being that I'm a spring chicken of 18 and naïve to boot. Thank you all for your kindness and patience with me thus far. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: shmart eiss Date: 03 Oct 2000 15:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Joseph Zitt wrote: >> but smartasses are usually--but not always--more >> entertaining than self-important cultural phenomena. >Smartasses would like you to believe that that is the >case. Those who >do not fall into the category themselves tend not to >enjoy them nearly >as much. Touche... (to answer an implication: I'm not the only smartass on this list...smartass) Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: shmart eiss Date: 03 Oct 2000 18:49:03 EDT In a message dated 10/3/00 6:11:24 PM, absurdbastard@yahoo.com writes: << >> but smartasses are usually--but not always--more >> entertaining than self-important cultural phenomena. >Smartasses would like you to believe that that is the >case. Those who >do not fall into the category themselves tend not to >enjoy them nearly >as much. Touche... (to answer an implication: I'm not the only smartass on this list...smartass) >> yet over the last few days, you've managed to become the most annoying person on the zorn-list in recent memory. you don't like the Beatles? great, fine, more power to you (not that I agree), but tell us once, not fifty times. personally, I don't find you entertaining, just a waste of my time and bandwidth. please stop sending cutesy, smarmy oneliners into hundreds of other people's e-mail boxes. I'm going to a concert now, and it'd really be nice to not have ten more essentially content-free messages from you waiting when I get home. as always, just my opinion. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 19:15:50 -0400 I'm 21. I hope I'm not considered a kid now!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Neil H. Enet ------------ PS. I'm going to be 22 in January :-) NP. BEN NEILL: goldbug - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: locus solus Date: 03 Oct 2000 20:54:51 -0700 >Rich Williams wrote: > >>>Incidentally, did anyone on this list see Locus >Solus >>>live? I know it's a long shot, but... > >>Which Locus Solus? I saw the Zorn/Horvitz/Mori >>version twice, and the Zorn/Lindsay/Fier version at >>least a dozen times, but I never caught the one with >>Blegvad and the DJ though. > >actually, I meant any of them... >so, how were the shows? >was the audience similar to the one on the Tzadik >disc? >did Zorn seem more pissed or pleased? I don't yet have the CD, but audience reaction had more to do with the venue than anything else. There used to be a lot of trendy/hipster rock clubs back then, and when they played in those places parts of the audience would usually be hostile. I distinctly remember yells of fraud! and Garbage! at a few shows. but they were always well recieved when they played to their audience. Zorn's demeanor on stage has definitely changed over the years. I remember him as being somewhat reserved, an intellectual type with a silly streak, during the early game-piece era. The first time I saw him MotherF!@#$ck someone from the stage I was quite shocked . Musically, the Zorn/Horvitz/Mori group sounded like a improvised muiscque-concrete, and were capable of being quite subtle at times. The Zorn/Lindsay/Fier group was a cathartic deconstruction of rock and roll, the perfect band for the time, IMHO. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: marco Subject: cage SEASONS Date: 03 Oct 2000 23:15:29 +1000 by chance does anyone have an opinion re the ecm 2000 release seasons (cage) thanks in advance marco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: numbats@iinet.net.au Subject: Re: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 09:13:04 +0800 Hi, I am 56, really glad I am not 21, and only once dressed up as a girl. Billy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 18:06:51 -0700 Joseph Zitt wrote: > > I am 42. Clothing looks great when I'm not in it. I'm 43 and I look like a pile of clothing. Most of the lists I've been on in the last few years have had ranges from 16-52 or so (not that you could necessarily tell by the behavior -- Jerzy, is the listowner of avant-garde@egroups also a "boy"?) & I'd expect this one to be about the same (given the familiarity of many of the names). -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Age Date: 03 Oct 2000 21:10:36 -0400 >the average age of >the posters on this list. 34, look great in cheap thrift-store sport coats. (Latest find: blue/green sharkskin, narrow lapels.) Not that any of that is particularly important. NP: Robert Quine/Fred Maher, _Basic_ -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Sitars and gitars Date: 03 Oct 2000 21:53:43 -0400 wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: > Any more info? from: https://secure.freakemporium.com/acatalog/index.html Electric Psychedelic Sitar Headswirlers - Vol. 1. CD(Reference #ELCD022) Pretty much as the title suggests, this features bands such as The Frederic, July, West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band, Pretty Things and Blonde on Blonde amongst others all playing psychedelic music featuring acoustic and electric sitars. The first volume of this highly regarded series and highly recommended for lovers of Eastern tinged psych.... Price: =A316.50 And there are five more(!). I haven't heard these discs, since I've yet to find anyone selling it in the states (or just cheaper). I'm in the market, though. I've heard some tracks (i think...) I just picked up S.F. Sorrow from the Pretty things, which is INSANE. Sitars feature heavily on the second track: Bracelets of Fingers. I'm spinning it with The Collins Kids, some Fairport Conv. semi-legal BBC sessions, the Blue Things story, and Ground Zero's first...which I just got and it is great and is the roundabout Zorn connection since he plays on it. matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: $.03 of tounge and cheek ranting Date: 03 Oct 2000 20:26:04 -0600 >the irate ignoramus it's funny how often these go hand in hand especially in areas of aesthetic opinion... ...i often feel like a fucking idiot while I'm railing on something that drives me crazy. I think "I can't stand people who rant on other people: it's like thumper says in disney's Bambi 'If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all'" -- ...but I GOTTA say something....DON'T I?? penny machine wisdom: civil behavior is hard to come by when you're angry. So I guess what I'm saying is: Sigmund, no one wants you around here anymore. No one here gets frustrated about differences of opinion. We're all thornless roses around here you prick. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: tips, bitte, for Ringo Date: 03 Oct 2000 20:55:05 -0600 > OK Kurt, I'm ready to change my opinion, but gimme, bitte, some tips for > searching Ringo's genius. > FWIW - I'm the fan of "The Beatles" from 1965.. It is /was/ greatest band > ever /not The Shaggs :))/ but IMHO Ringo was the soft underbelly of group. Watch Zappa's 200 Motels. granted he may not be much of an actor but the fact that Ringo plays Zappa in the movie certainly made me see him in a different light. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith36@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Re: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 00:50:57 -0400 >the average age of >the posters on this list. 34, look great in Italian sportcoats purchased tax-free as remainders at the Burlington Coat Factory in Paramus, NJ, and worn over t-shirts, never ever mananged to hear Quine and Maher's 'Basic' despite years of trying to order a copy. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - The Daily Show - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 06:51:26 +0200 Jim Flannery asked >Jerzy, is the listowner of avant-garde@egroups also a | "boy"?) No. "Boy" in this context is state of mind, no state of age :)) Jerzy /48 - male, no crossdressing ever/ np - Don Cherry - Penderecki "Actions for free jazz orchestra" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Lehn, nmperign, Palestine, Red Krayola Date: 04 Oct 2000 01:05:38 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > first, Random Acoustics (co-run by Grawe), after a long, long dry spell, has > just released four new CDs, including a Thomas Lehn solo disc. When is this out? Is it his first solo CD? > secondly, Meniscus, a Minneapolis based label run by Jon Morgan, has also > just released a Grawe trio CD, with Frank Gratkowski and Paul Lovens. I > haven't heard this one yet, but the other Meniscus release just out is a solo > Greg Kelley trumpet CD, which is one of my favorite releases of the year. if > you don't know Kelley, he's half of the Boston-based nmperign (along with > soprano sax Bhob Rainey), but this solo CD is by far the best thing I've > heard from either of them, alone or together. I'm looking forward to seeing Coincidentally, I just got the first nmperign CD in the mail today (which also includes Tatsuya Nakatani on percussion). I haven't listened to it yet, but I was reminded of their existence after seeing Kelley live with Kevin Drumm in Boston a few weeks ago and reading the semi-recent Wire feature on him. The record's been out for a while, but I only just thought to pick it up, making me wonder why nmperign has seemingly been overlooked in all the recent attention on the whole microvising/lowercase/blah improv scene. Is it because they're from Boston? Or because their records are on a label which otherwise releases mostly psych/rock? Any one from Boston on the list? It seems like there's some exciting improv going on there now. Greg Kelley was great when I saw him; likewise James Coleman and Nakatani when I saw them at Autumn Uprising a few years ago. Is there a lot more of this bubbling under the surface? In other news, this week's Village Voice has a review of the recent Charlemagne Palestine show in NYC at http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0040/gann.shtml Makes me really wish I'd been there, especially when Kyle Gann remarks that Palestine may not be back for another 20 years. Doh. Also: Does anybody want to offer opinions on Red Krayola records? I've been aware of them for a while, but only recently got my first record (Fingerpainting) after hearing a really good MP3 from their upcoming EP at the drag city site. How much variation is there among records? Which ones come recommended? Please, don't start with the most accessible or "best for beginners," just highest quality or most interesting. Thanks in advance. Oh, and finally, I'm 21 (and a half, as of last week, actually). -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Lehn, nmperign, Palestine, Red Krayola Date: 04 Oct 2000 02:16:41 EDT In a message dated 10/4/00 1:12:34 AM, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << > first, Random Acoustics (co-run by Grawe), after a long, long dry spell, has just released four new CDs, including a Thomas Lehn solo disc. When is this out? Is it his first solo CD? >> it's out now. when it will be available in the US is a different question. Lehn is supposed to send me some, so I'll post again when I get them. <> I'm not sure whether their records are really representative of how good they've become recently. hopefully their next release, out soon on Selektion, will remedy that situation. the other upcoming Selektion CD is a superb collaboration from Kevin Drumm and Ralf Wehowsky. <> yeah, Palestine said at the second of these two gigs that he would never play NYC again. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: beetles Date: 03 Oct 2000 23:33:40 -0700 i don't folo pop music or insectology much, but i dig those beatles a lot. i bought their complete works -- on vinyl, the english version, lacking only magic mystery tour -- a few years ago and would hate it if you were going to shoot me in the head if i didn't give it up. let me keep that and the complete riverside monk and i would happily retreat to desert island. well, for a couple of weeks anyway. martin np. jimi hendrix -- gypsy eyes from new 4cd set, mostly unreleased stuff including two versions of little wing. can i take this too? and a case of bombay sapphire? and the medalists in the women's pole vault? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: new releases Date: 03 Oct 2000 23:43:55 -0700 Bill Ashline wrote: > > Of the two, though, I think Majoun is the strongest; in > fact I'm sure it will be one of my favorites of the year, though as usual > I'm arriving three years late. Try to track down the Deihim/Horowitz disc from the late 80s, _Desert Equations: Azax Attra_ (Crepescule/Made to Measure), which is stronger than _Majoun_ IMHO, if only because the production is much more immediate. Horowitz had a nice solo LP in the early 80s, _Eros in Arabia_, which I don't think has ever been laserized. It should be. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: ooh, jimi w/ larry young Date: 03 Oct 2000 23:45:56 -0700 "it's too bad" it's called, and sweet lord it's baad. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: dolphy/mingus duet Date: 04 Oct 2000 00:05:03 -0700 thank god someone on this list listens to the classics and it is dan hewins: >Yes, but there is (at least) one sax/bass track on one of the live >records of the great, great Mingus 5tet. I can't remember the name >of the tune they play but it's beautiful. i mean, how can you talk of sax/bass duet without mentioning "what love"?! they get it on one-a-mano-a-manoonone for what, 10 minutes of this 15 minute cut, throwing away equal temperment, just having this very verbal dialogue. October 1960. I believe this is currently available on Candid CCD 79005 "Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus." run, don't crawl begging and drooling please give it to me, i have money money money. martin np: mingus/dolphy all the things you could be by now if sigmund freud's wife was your mother. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: beetles Date: 04 Oct 2000 03:09:26 -0400 At 11:33 PM -0700 10/3/00, Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com wrote: >let me >keep that and the complete riverside monk and i would happily retreat ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Truly one of the great cultural treasures of all time. I wish it hadn't been ripped off from the local library... No real point to my message here, other than my sheer enthusiasm for the Monk box set. Carry on, -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: siggy don leave bring it on mof Date: 04 Oct 2000 00:45:16 -0700 43 i look good without a shirt i don lose my compsure in high-speed chase my friends think i'm ugly i gotta masculine face i got some dragstrip courage i can really drive a bed i'm gonna change my name to hannibal maybe just rex i remain richard o'toole - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 08:12:57 GMT Hey, Might be interesting to know who is the youngest member on the list. I seem to remember an "introduction" message written by someone who was 14. ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: drumming Date: 04 Oct 2000 08:40:29 GMT Hey, Drums are the only instrument for me where speed and power ALONE is enough to make it interesting. I don't care for fast guitar playing and if I hear another Brotzmann squeek on the saxophone, I might fall asleep. But drums is something different. Don't know why, but that loud rush of pounding noise always get me. The single hardest/fastest drumming I have ever heard is Mick Harris in the Napalm Death "Peel Sessions" CD. Amazing and totally exiting! I love heavy metal drumming, but the thing is, all the other stuff is terrible. Come on, metal guitar? It's horrible! Any recommendations for drums heavy, guitar soft metal bands? ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shlomo Weintraub Subject: Re: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 10:46:34 +0200 here comes the next kid. I'm 22! And I look great wearing old mans clothing, so i look at least like 43. 8-() "Neil H. Enet" schrieb: > I'm 21. I hope I'm not considered a kid now!!!!!!!!!!! :-) > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > > PS. I'm going to be 22 in January :-) > > NP. BEN NEILL: goldbug > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Risser Family" Subject: Re: Einstein was a drummer/Ringo Starr Date: 04 Oct 2000 05:50:10 -0400 > I agree in the sense that I find the Beatles overrated... they could > have used editing, yes, but still, I think some of their works are > just downright genius. I repeat. SOME. Like "Tomorrow Never Knows", > which was probably the first techno song since it was constructed > over a tape loop, sound fx, blah. > > Still, any Zappa from the 60s probably destroys them. I think Zappa is alright, but there's a guy who could have really used some editing. I know I'm on thin ice here on this list, but... Yeah, I think he could have. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: Re:Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 04 Oct 2000 12:56:29 +0200 (DST) Tim Keenliside: >>Why not listen to the real thing? Or >>do you prefer to hear Wynton Marsalis play Louis >>Armstrong, Randy Hansen play Jimi Hendrix, etc. Why stop >>at the monkey when you can go straight to the organ >>grin I respect your view, but does it extend to the point that I should throw my copy of THE BIG GUNDOWN away? Or Caine's PRIMAL LIGHT? But my real answer is, I listen to them because I really enjoy them and like them. And I listen to them together with originals.And BTW what is the definition of THE REAL THING? respect, manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "abulafia" Subject: age Date: 04 Oct 2000 03:26:03 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C02DB2.D30AC1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I likly represent the demograficaly most average and banal of all = possibel worlds. 28 male caucasian middel-middel class i live in MO (as middle america as it comes) my parents even had the fosight to name me John the up shot to all this is, I could rob a bank and nobody would ever be = able to distigquish me from anyone else. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C02DB2.D30AC1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I likly represent the demograficaly = most average=20 and banal of all possibel worlds.
28
male
caucasian
middel-middel class
i live in MO (as middle america as it=20 comes)
my parents even had the fosight to name = me=20 John
the up shot to all this is, I could rob = a bank and=20 nobody would ever be able to distigquish me from anyone=20 else.
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C02DB2.D30AC1A0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joslyn Layne" Subject: RE: age, etc. Date: 04 Oct 2000 08:38:29 -0400 It's not necessarily the age of the list population that makes it more mature.. there are jazz lists that i read where the average age is much higher than, say one of the indie lists you speak of, and the posts there are just as inane. or lists of almost entirely 'adults' that are mostly attacks & hyperbole. real helpful. In fact, this is the only discussion list i've yet encountered that features substance instead of an overwhelming amount of personal exchange and 'oooh, i just love musicians!' fluff. As for our demographic poll, i am both female and under 26 -- 25. joslyn p.s. i recently began a 'landmark avant-garde jazz album' feature on my weekly radio show (( www.wcbn.org )) so far, i have played Ayler's "Bells," Roscoe Mitchell's "Sound" and Ornette Coleman's "Shape of Jazz to Come." Obviously, this is in no particular order. Today it'll either be Coltrane's "Ascension" or Jimmy Giuffre's "Free Fall." i will have a time deciding on which AEC and which Sun Ra, i know that much. Anyway, i bring this up, because i would appreciate and enjoy suggestions from you folk. respond directly if you don't want to fill the list up with suggestions.... jml I'm willing to bet that the average age on the list is higher than mid 20s...but I'm just going on a hunch. I am also going on the perceived maturity of posts and responses. On various indie rock lists I'm on, the posts and banter is often adolescent at best. There aren't any "we toos" to speak of on this list, which I really like. The people I personally know that are on this list are all over 26. I'm not female either. Dan Hewins At 5:01 PM -0400 10/3/00, &c. wrote: >I was under the impression that most of the group >fell into the mid-20s age group. It sounds like the group is a lot older >now. On a somewhat related note...are there many female members of this >list? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Age/Pluramon Date: 04 Oct 2000 09:31:08 EDT In a message dated 10/4/00 4:13:57 AM, a_gadney@hotmail.com writes: << Might be interesting to know who is the youngest member on the list. I=20 seem=20 to remember an "introduction" message written by someone who was 14. >> when Tom Pratt joined the list a few years ago, he was 15, and sent a=20 introductory message containing that info, so maybe that's who you mean. he'= s=20 off-list now, though, getting more than enough music discussion at his job a= t=20 Other Music. both NYC Pluramon shows were very good. Schmickler strummed a guitar=20 repetitively and the drummer, J=F6chen Ruckert, played restrained riffs to a= =20 click track. the third member of the band is Marcus' laptop, adding bassline= s=20 and the occasional burst of noisy electronics. they mostly focus on setting=20 up loping grooves, but the second half of both sets was more energetic, whic= h=20 was refreshing after so much restraint (standing on the verge of getting it=20 on, to quote one of my favorite P-Funk songs). they reminded me a bit of=20 Radian, the Austrian trio who have two superb releases out on Rhiz and=20 Mego/Rhiz, both of which are recommended to anyone interested in the=20 intersection between rock and electronics. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Subject: Re: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 09:45:06 -0400 today is my 30th birthday. please feel free to send me zorn discs and exotic japanese merzbow recordings. and, uh, yes, i am male. n - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: MASADA in Brussels Date: 04 Oct 2000 16:12:50 +0200 (MET DST) For those interested I have collected the following information: 26/11 Jon Zorn MASADA will play at Koninklijk Circus = Onderrichtstraat/Rue de l'Enseignement, 1000 Brussels. It's near (+/- 10 min. walking) to the trainstation 'Brussel Centraal/Bruxelles Centrale'. Tickets are BF 800/1000/1200, credit card holders can call +32-2-5078200, no reservations. manolis E. Papagiannakis Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam tel: +31 20 4447934 Biophysics fax: +31 20 4447999 De Boelelaan 1081 1081 HV, Amsterdam The Netherlands - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean BonJovi Subject: Re:Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 04 Oct 2000 08:03:15 -0700 (PDT) There's surely a difference between Laswell's dub(ious) splice jobs from existing material and, say, Zorn's interpretation and subsequent re-recording of a Morricone composition. "Panthalssa" was for yuppies and fits nicely in the collection right between "Legend" and "Hotel California". love, sean n.p. Wayne Shorter "The All Seeing Eye". > Tim Keenliside: > >>Why not listen to the real thing? Or > >>do you prefer to hear Wynton Marsalis play Louis > >>Armstrong, Randy Hansen play Jimi Hendrix, etc. > Why stop > >>at the monkey when you can go straight to the > organ > >>grin > > > I respect your view, but does it extend to the point > that I should throw my copy of THE BIG GUNDOWN away? > Or > Caine's PRIMAL LIGHT? > But my real answer is, I listen to them because I > really > enjoy them and like them. And I listen to them > together > with originals.And BTW what is the definition of > THE REAL THING? > > respect, > manolis > > > - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: perdida Subject: list demographics Date: 04 Oct 2000 11:13:29 -0500 Zach pondered... I was under the impression that most of the group fell into the mid-20s age group. It sounds like the group is a lot older now. On a somewhat related note...are there many female members of this list? I am 48 and female, biologically, in any case. My musical interests might cast doubt on where my psyche places in both the gender and age continuums (continua??). Best marianne - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: selfcriticism and organs Date: 04 Oct 2000 08:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Jerzy inquired: > > > Tell me please, who in your opinion was the best > organ player in the rock > > > realm between 67-72. Joseph Zitt proposed: > Depending how far you stretch "rock": Miles Davis. > As on trumpet, > not a lot of notes, but the right ones at the right > time. Scott Handley muses: Agreed---Miles did pretty sick things with the electric organ. "Rated X" from GET UP WITH IT is at once mind-numbing, chilling, posthuman, and a fucking _groove_. And not a shard of trumpet on it. Catch the, er, extended pun? (The track, I mean; poetically, a conceit. Or is that obvious?) -----s NP: Noel Akchote, RIEN (Winter & Winter) (unnerving, and bleak; certainly best digested, if not appreciated, when semiconscious; I'm at work so there's no problem there) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 04 Oct 2000 10:44:27 -0400 On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 08:03:15AM -0700, Sean BonJovi wrote: > There's surely a difference between Laswell's > dub(ious) splice jobs from existing material and, say, > Zorn's interpretation and subsequent re-recording of a > Morricone composition. "Panthalssa" was for yuppies > and fits nicely in the collection right between > "Legend" and "Hotel California". Hmm... if Panthalassa was a "splice" job, then so were the original Teo Macero-edited versions of the same material. Same result, slightly newer technologies. Maybe you have room next to "Hotel California" for "In a Silent Way", "Big Fun", and "Get Up with It" too? Or are they in some sense better only for having been there first? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: selfcriticism and organs Date: 04 Oct 2000 08:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Jerzy inquired: > > > Tell me please, who in your opinion was the best > organ player in the rock > > > realm between 67-72. Joseph Zitt proposed: > Depending how far you stretch "rock": Miles Davis. > As on trumpet, > not a lot of notes, but the right ones at the right > time. Scott Handley muses: Agreed---Miles did pretty sick things with the electric organ. "Rated X" from GET UP WITH IT is at once mind-numbing, chilling, posthuman, and a fucking _groove_. And not a shard of trumpet on it. Catch the, er, extended pun? (The track, I mean; poetically, a conceit. Or is that obvious?) -----s NP: Noel Akchote, RIEN (Winter & Winter) (unnerving, and bleak; certainly best digested, if not appreciated, when semiconscious; I'm at work so there's no problem there) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re:Bill Laswell's Reconstructions Date: 04 Oct 2000 15:32:50 GMT >From: Sean BonJovi >There's surely a difference between Laswell's >dub(ious) splice jobs from existing material and, say, >Zorn's interpretation and subsequent re-recording of a >Morricone composition. "Panthalssa" was for yuppies >and fits nicely in the collection right between >"Legend" and "Hotel California". > >love, sean >n.p. Wayne Shorter "The All Seeing Eye". "There's surely a difference between Laswell's dub(ious) splice jobs from existing material and, say, `Hotel California'" B. Ashline (who was just waiting for the first pitch of the new Laswell-bashing season) BTW, 38, going on 39, and I hate my clothes.... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: list demographics Date: 04 Oct 2000 11:36:01 EDT In a message dated 10/4/00 11:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mbraendl@yorku.ca writes: << I was under the impression that most of the group fell into the mid-20s age group. It sounds like the group is a lot older now. On a somewhat related note...are there many female members of this list? >> Tom 31 Male Teacher/tutor New York np: Miles David Chronicles, Disc two nr: J.D. Salinger's "Franny and Zooey" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Adam Taylor Tierney Subject: Re: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 10:59:53 -0500 (EST) I'm 18, which appears to be younger than most people on this list. Any grade-schoolers? On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Arthur Gadney wrote: > Hey, > > Might be interesting to know who is the youngest member on the list. I seem > to remember an "introduction" message written by someone who was 14. > > ARTHUR_G > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: corny copia Date: 04 Oct 2000 11:13:36 -0700 (PDT) kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: K: sig filed: S: (man, I hope that's not meant to imply what it sounds like it implies...) speaking of covers of Beatles tunes: PETER SELLERS! (his versions are, in my uninformed opinion, infinitely more entertaining than the originals) K: tell more! S: You haven't heard Sellers' versions of She Loves You and Hard Day's Night? They're wonderful--the former features Dr. Strangelove in some kind of Nazi dungeon TALKING (no singing) to a mental patient (pure genius), the latter is a a combination speech/poetry recital over intermittent and pompous tv-orchestral music. (this stuff is SO highly recommended--and especially for Beatles fans, as I think they'd really enjoy them. from what I hear, Sellers was a big fan himself.) K: but: (S:) In high school, I used to sit with Beatles songbooks and try to memorize all the chords (I already knew all the lyrics). but then I got bored. K: as well you should have. that's not a statement about the quality of the music, however. granted, drowning oneself in technical aspects of an emotional meduim can be tedium (hey, that rhymes.), and the perception of the quality of the music is subjective, anyway--something I should've typed long ago to avoid all the negative moods and words I've inspired. (S:) (and, seriously, do you still teach?) K: hell, no! S: why not? is it because of punks like me? (I don't feel particularly antagonistic today, so none of this is sarcastic...a little drained from being the mean bastard...) Did you teach philosophy in general? I'm honestly interested, because a dear friend of mine is in the process of getting his masters in the history of philosophy in San Francisco, and he wants to teach--he's also into logic and mathematics (Wittgenstein)... anyway, I know it's off-any-topic, but I'm curious. (S:) oh yeah, what was the loser sneeze again? K: don't (cough, cough) scuse me, but don't (coughcoughgeekcough) worry about it (cough) S: geek? man, I'm just too tired to get pissed at that. You know, I've never heard it, that loser sneeze thing. Is this a generation gap? (and I am a geek, in the traditional so-says-Joe-the-no-neck-star-highschool-quarterback kind of way; I read) Okay, I'm done (with this email--awwww!) hoping the hate is reversible, Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: content-free-mail Date: 04 Oct 2000 11:20:34 -0700 (PDT) JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: >yet over the last few days, you've managed to become >the most annoying person on the zorn-list in recent >memory. you don't like the Beatles? great, fine, >more power to you (not that I agree), but tell us >once, not fifty times. I don't recall it even nearing 50... >personally, I don't find you entertaining, just a >waste of my time and bandwidth. please stop sending >cutesy, smarmy oneliners into hundreds of other >people's e-mail boxes. I'm going to a concert now, >and it'd really be nice to not have ten more >essentially content-free messages from you waiting >when I get home. okay, this is my favorite part, the e-mail war about useless e-mail. in order to rant against useless postings, someone has to post a...useless...posting. I've been through this at the work place (although, for some reason I didn't care there). Okay, in all seriousness, I promise to try not to send useless, smarmy...uh, cutesy oneliners into millions--sorry, hundreds of people's mailboxes. >as always, just my opinion. which is, of course, more valid and more electronic-space-worthy than mine... doing his best to stay pertinent, Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bas Terhorst" Subject: RE: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 20:20:21 +0200 Im 17 :) I doubt it if there's anyone younger than me. then again... Cheers, Bas - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: content-free-mail Date: 04 Oct 2000 13:48:32 -0400 On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 11:20:34AM -0700, Sigmund Nonanima wrote: > JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > >as always, just my opinion. > > which is, of course, more valid and more > electronic-space-worthy than mine... One thing worth understanding is that Jon has earned a certain amount of respect within this online community through the combination of his longevity here, the continuing clarity of his observations, and his sterling efforts in furthering the music (remember music?) through his running of the Erstwhile label. Jon has made his reputation the old- fashioned way: he's earned it. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: I'm ready to talk about Zorn again... Date: 04 Oct 2000 11:30:29 -0700 (PDT) "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " wrote: >So I guess what I'm saying is: >Sigmund, no one wants you around here anymore. ouch, highschool flashbacks. really, though. I didn't think--despite my antagonism--that this list would come down to such threatening fear-of-the-Other tactics (or is it just ye, Wirzbicki?) >No one here gets frustrated about differences of >opinion. what's THIS, then? and, honestly, I don't remember who got frustrated about my so-called Five Theses against The Beatles first, but it wasn't me. >We're all thornless roses around here you prick. you get points for that one(?), maybe a goddamn Oscar. So, does that make me just the prick, or a rose with a prick, or is the point (ha!) that everyone else here is beautiful and inoffensive while I'm the opposite? You'll have to elucidate that one, you thornless rose. I don't want it to seem like I have to get the last word in, so I'm stopping. Only music-related text from now on (from me). Unless anyone attacks me personally again--and I know I didn't start THAT, either. da prick, Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: content-free-mail Date: 04 Oct 2000 20:38:32 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: "Joseph Zitt" Do: "Sigmund Nonanima" DW: Wyslano: 4 pazdziernika 2000 19:48 Temat: Re: content-free-mail | On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 11:20:34AM -0700, Sigmund Nonanima wrote: Holy shit. Let's ignore this guy. At the beginning it was somehow entertaining now it's dusgustingly boring like flogging dead horse. Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Lehn, nmperign, Palestine, Red Krayola Date: 04 Oct 2000 12:14:21 -0700 At 2:16 AM 10/4/00, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > >< >to pick it up, making me wonder why nmperign has seemingly been overlooked > >in all the recent attention on the whole microvising/lowercase/blah improv > >scene. Is it because they're from Boston? Or because their records are on > >a label which otherwise releases mostly psych/rock?>> > >I'm not sure whether their records are really representative of how good >they've become recently. hopefully their next release, out soon on Selektion, >will remedy that situation. the other upcoming Selektion CD is a superb >collaboration from Kevin Drumm and Ralf Wehowsky. > I saw nmperign a while ago, they stayed at my house as well while they were in town. I was really impressed with Greg's playing, I think he has one of the most original appraoches to trumpet that I've heard in years, maybe since Butch Morris gave up playing to comprovise. I need to seek out his solo disc now that I know it exists. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: violin,Feldman and Vandermark Date: 04 Oct 2000 15:28:33 EDT Drivymovie wrote 3 days and 3,000 messages ago: << Has anyone mentioned Mark Feldman yet? I think this guy is just incredible! He possesses an extraordinary technical command over his instrument (his floutando playing would be enough to sell me), like none other in jazz or improvised music. And, more importantly, he is quite possibly the most consistently creative and musical performers I have ever heard, regardless of what context he is playing in. A truly singular and versatile voice, I would say that him and Maneri do it for me the most. I especially dig his work with Dave Douglas (String group, Charms..., New & Used) and the Masada and, now defunct, Arcado string trios. Anyone have any opinions about any of his other work? I'm intrigued by his solo recording on Tzadik and his recent duo recording with Sylvie Courvoisier on Avant (who, by the way, led a very impressive ensemble, the other night at Tonic). Word, -Evan >> I would recommend The Mosaic Sextet's "Today, This Moment" on Konnex. This band is fronted By Michael Jefry Stevens(p) and Dave Douglas who both contribute all the compositions. Lots of good Feldman to be heard here, plenty of solos amid some very memorable tunes. Also, I would highly praise " Extended Animation"(Enja) by Michael Formanek, which besides Feldman has Tim Berne, Wayne Krantz and Jeff Hirshfield. This is Formanek's 2nd solo and 1 of his best, which is really saying something. Really beautiful compositions with improv seemlessly integrated into it. Its one of those releases which you memorize every note its so flawless. I had the opportunity to see this band many years ago and was amazed. Plenty to like for a Feldman fan. Another cd Feldman is on with Tim Berne is Berne's "Fractured Fairy Tales". Another masterpiece. I'm a huge Tim Berne fan and this release along with "Sanctified Dreams" really turned Berne's playing(and composing) up several notches. Another posting that I can't seem to relocate mentioned that they would like to hear Vandermark with just percussion. He has 2 that I'm aware of. His Sound in Action trio with drummers Robert Barry and Tim Mulvenna playing originals as well as many classic covers. Its called "Design In Time" on Delmark. Also, a very free 2 cd release with Paul Lytton "English Suites" on Wobbly Rail. Hard to listen to all in one sitting but has many fine moments. Cheers, John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: violin,Feldman and Vandermark Date: 04 Oct 2000 21:32:31 +0200 Oh, I almost forget about Jason Hwang. Jerzy np - Wallenstein "Cosmic century" nr - Javier Marias "Serce tak biale" = "Corazon tan blanco" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sen" Subject: Re: fluxus anthology Date: 04 Oct 2000 21:41:28 +0200 Sorry, the actual content of my previous post vanished I don't know where. Here's the info: go to http://www.ubu.com/ click on the "new resources" menu. Just after "Sound", choose "Fluxus anthology". There are audio excerpts of most of t= he tracks of this great CD. The recordings are from various dates, but quite a lot are from the 60's. > >-----Message d'origine----- >De : wlt4@mindspring.com >=C0 : zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Date : mardi 3 octobre 2000 21:12 >Objet : fluxus anthology > > >>Does anybody know details about this CD? I found a few participants >mentioned but can't tell if they're recordings from the 60s or more rece= nt. >> >>Lang >> >>- >> >> > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus Subject: RE: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 17:08:08 -0400 27, female, owns large collection of vintage dresses Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: list demographics Date: 04 Oct 2000 17:37:59 -0700 26 yo guy, neat, cut, slim build, wheat complexion, seeks 18-28 yo females for sexual pleasures, threesomes welcome, must be discreet. 30yr old deaf man like horses, dogs, walking and swimming, own car, working, very affectionate. WLTM sincere lady, 25-45 for friendship, hopefully more. My name is Julia. I would like to meet kind, sociable, comfortable blokes who are free to explore friendships for growth, over time and depth. Half Dutch male graduate (50 going on 40). I'm England born/educated. WLTM female equivalent (you don't have to be Dutch!) Super fertile male, 37, looking for lesbian couples who want to have children, no ties, absolutely clean and discrete, willing to travel, s/s, s/d, gsoh, ala. At 11:36 AM 10/4/00 -0400, Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/4/00 11:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >mbraendl@yorku.ca writes: > ><< I was under the impression that most of the group > fell into the mid-20s age group. It sounds like the group is a lot older > now. On a somewhat related note...are there many female members of this > list? >> > > >Tom >31 >Male >Teacher/tutor >New York >np: Miles David Chronicles, Disc two >nr: J.D. Salinger's "Franny and Zooey" > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 14:50:02 -0700 27, female, owns large collection of vintage dresses Jeni Willing to let me borrow one? (Sorry, I'll stop.) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re:violin Date: 04 Oct 2000 18:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Well, if we're going to name every good violinist in the world, how 'bout India Cook, for our West Coast fans? She played in a late edition of the Sun Ra Arkestra, despite his purported sexism, and has an excellent CD out on Music & Arts called Redhanded with George Lewis (trombone); Larry Ochs (sopranino and tenor saxophones); Lisle Ellis (bass); Donald Robinson (drums)and Lee (percussion). And Jerzy are there any Polish jazz violinists who weren't saxophonists first? Ken Waxman --- Jerzy Matysiakiewicz wrote: > > Oh, I almost forget about Jason Hwang. > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Bolling Subject: Re: drumming Date: 04 Oct 2000 18:18:58 -0400 Arthur Gadney wrote: Any recommendations for drums heavy, guitar soft metal bands? Though this isn't metal in the classic sense (neither is Napalm Death, for that matter) the latest CD from Discordance Axis, "The Inalienable Dreamless", features some insane drum work, courtesy of Dave Witte. Dave used to play in the seminal death-grind outfit Human Remains. The guitar work on "Dreamless" is rather atypical for metal, very trebly, with riffs being fed through flangers and other effects (usually for the length of the song, though the songs are fairly short in duration to begin with). The vocalist sounds like a maniac, of course, but if you can hang with Lee Dorian and Barney, I don't think you'll mind. Also, the band has no bass player, just guitar, drums, and screams. The CD comes in a DVD case with wonderful artwork and packaging. As far as speed goes, Flo Mournier of Cryptopsy is my fave drummer; his blasts make Mick Harris' sound like a funeral march. This is the first time I've ever shot something out on this list, I've been a voyeur for quite some time. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the recommendations over the last 6 months, as I've had my eyes (or should I say ears) opened to some incredible musical vistas. Thanks! Peace, Rob P.S.: Good luck Arthur! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcizon@800.com Subject: Prelapse Date: 04 Oct 2000 15:30:10 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02E52.A91854F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" First of all, allow me to say it's good to be back on the list after a three-year sabbatical. Anyway, I apologize in advance if this has been covered recently, but I was wondering what self-titled Prelapse Avant CD is like. I hear things like it features never-before-released Naked City compositions. That Zorn guests on a handful of tracks. That it's excellent. Please confirm/deny this hearsay. Much obliged, Murray Age: 24 NP: Don Cherry "Complete Communion" NR: Lone Star Swing (D. McLean) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02E52.A91854F2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Prelapse

First of all, allow me to say it's good to be back on = the list after a three-year sabbatical.

Anyway, I apologize in advance if this has been = covered recently, but I was wondering what self-titled Prelapse Avant = CD is like. I hear things like it features never-before-released Naked = City compositions. That Zorn guests on a handful of tracks. That it's = excellent. Please confirm/deny this hearsay.

Much obliged,
Murray
Age: 24
NP: Don Cherry "Complete Communion"
NR: Lone Star Swing (D. McLean)

------_=_NextPart_001_01C02E52.A91854F2-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: RE: list demographics Date: 04 Oct 2000 18:30:53 EDT In a message dated Wed, 4 Oct 2000 5:41:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) writes: << 26 yo guy, neat, cut, slim build, wheat complexion, seeks 18-28 yo females for sexual pleasures, threesomes welcome, must be discreet. (remainder snipped- to some people's relief, I'm sure!) >> Getting a bit beyond the Zorn scope, aren't we? ;-) -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee, Edgar" Subject: Age Date: 05 Oct 2000 10:30:12 +1100 I'm 39 and live in Melbourne, Australia. I work at Missing Link record shop that has a Tzadik/Downtown/free jazz and beyond section, as well as lots of punk. I run a record label, Dr Jims that has put out quite a few artists that have Zorn connections such as Peril, Phlegm, David Watson. I appreciate this list for putting me on to loads of stuff that I would've missed out on especially if their recommended by Brian, Waxman, or Steve Smith. The record that introduced me to the avant garde was the Beatles Revolution number 9. Edgar NP Swell Maps A Trip to Marineville - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: Prelapse, violin, age Date: 04 Oct 2000 19:50:50 EDT In a message dated Wed, 4 Oct 2000 6:31:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mcizon@800.com writes: << I was wondering what self-titled Prelapse Avant CD is like. I hear things like it features never-before-released Naked City compositions. That Zorn guests on a handful of tracks. That it's excellent. Please confirm/deny this hearsay.>> I became interested in Prelapse from the tracks on the Zorn Taboo & Exile (or is it Music for Children?)CD, so I bought the Prelapse disc, hoping for more of the same. My huge disappointment came as soon as I heard an Eye-style vocal in the Prelapse stuff. I despise Eye's contributions to Naked City (if I could excise his 'contributions' from NC, I'd spend a lot more time listening to their discs), and the Prelapse "Eye-lite" takes a lot away from their music for me. As for violinists, I missed some of the posts, but I didn't see Mark O'Connor mentioned, which surprises me (unless the original post asked about strictly avant-style players). Yes, he's doing classical crossover these days, and he's never done anything remotely avantish, but he is one monster if an improvising instrumentalist. Certainly technically, there's never been anybody even remotely on his level in the non-classical world, and very few in the classical field either. But it is what he does with it that can be mind-boggling. His best stuff is still found in the progressive bluegrass/newgrass/new acoustic bins, usually as a sideman (especially from the 1980s, early '90s), but he's also done some a few great albums himself. Try "New Nashville Cats," or "Heroes," for starters. And having mainly lurked around here for about a year, I was surprised at how many folks are in my age bracket (41). Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Re: Age Date: 05 Oct 2000 00:55:32 +0100 wrote: > 34, look great in Italian sportcoats purchased tax-free as remainders at the Burlington Coat >Factory in Paramus, NJ, and worn over t-shirts, never ever mananged to hear Quine and >Maher's 'Basic' despite years of trying to order a copy. Don't bother - it's one of the more disappointing records I've heard in my 31 years of male existence. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Re: Age Date: 04 Oct 2000 20:15:52 -0400 At 12:55 AM +0100 10/5/00, Alastair Wilson wrote: > wrote: >>Quine and >Maher's 'Basic' > >Don't bother - it's one of the more disappointing records I've heard in my >31 years of male existence. > What's not to like about it? Sure, it's not bursting out all over the place with Quine solos (okay, that could be a source of your disappointment), and it's got that 80s up-front Linn drum thing (possibly another), but there's a great interplay between guitars (yup, Fred plays, too) and there _are_ some hot Quine solos ("Bluffer," f'r'instance). Standouts for me are "Pickup," the aforementioned seriously-rocking "Bluffer," the lighthearted "Fala," and the evocative "Summer Storm." (Okay, most of Side 1.) "'65" is great, too, although I will admit that side two does slow down a bit. The guy who sold me my copy cautioned me that it wasn't what I expected, and said he remembered Quine telling him with delight that it didn't have any solos on it and that people would hate it. (Significant paraphrasing there; don't quote me.) I failed to be disappointed, though. Yours in relativism/pluralism/etc., Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: new Random Acoustics releases Date: 04 Oct 2000 20:37:45 EDT here are descriptions for the four new Random Acoustics releases I mentioned= =20 a few days ago. Verge (www.vergemusic.com) has them in now, and I should get= =20 a bunch of the solo Lehn in next week sometime. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com RANDOM ACOUSTICS Germany Gustafsson, Mats, John Corbett, Terri Kapsalis & Fred Lonberg-Holm Battuto RG-RA023-CD Jazz 786497261529 ($20.00 CD) John Corbett, guitar; Mats Gustafsson, tenor sax, fluteophone, flute, flageolet; Terri Kapsalis, violin; Fred Lonberg-Holm, cello. Recorded 1996 in Chicago. =ECI remember hearing this recording for the first time during a car ride thru Chicago in 1996. I was immediately fascinated by the tightness of the musical text. Apart from the obvious James Brown-like quality of =EBgetting down=ED, these 18 cuts have all the density, clarity and logic of some of the best scores from the heroic days of the =EBnew music=ED of the 1950s. There are moods too and fantasy and lots of improvisation ...=EE =F3Georg Graewe, Berkeley, CA, February 2000. Lehn, Thomas Feldstarken RG-RA027-CD Jazz 786497261925 ($20.00 CD) Thomas Lehn, analogue synthesizer. All compositions by Thomas Lehn. Recorded between July and October 1998 and May and October 1999. All the music was created in real time with an EMS Snthi =EBA=ED synthesizer. Schiaffini, Giancarlo Tuba Libre RG-RA025-CD Jazz 786497261727 ($20.00 CD) Giancarlo Schiaffini, tuba. Although Schiaffini=EDs place in modern jazz history is well ensconced as a trombonist, he has also built a reputation on the tuba. Solo albums are difficult vehicles in which to sustain the listener=EDs interest; but Schiaffini gets around this somewhat by adding electronics to his acoustic tuba - not by merely distorting its solitary sound, but by using the electronics as a separate, additional instrument. What he accomplished is nothing short of remarkable - not only for its virtuosity, but more importantly for its emotional depths. Stelen Four In One RG-RA026-CD Jazz 786497261826 ($20.00 CD) Johannes Bauer, trombone; Luc Houtkamp, alto & tenor sax; Dieter Manderscheid, double bass; Martin Blume, drums. Recorded in 1999 in Koln. The exquisite music on this CD symbolizes the tension between freedom and order, appealing to the listener to discard predetermined notions and immerse himself in a new world of splendours. Every piece on this recording is completely improvised. There are no melodies in the conventional sense, but there is tremendous variety, ranging from intense interaction to contemplative moments of simmering beauty. There are magnificent solos and extraordinary virtuosity. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: age Date: 04 Oct 2000 18:27:18 -0700 (PDT) I'm 20, male, even though I'm very girly looking. A np: Lawnmower Deth - Weebles Wobble But They Don't Fall Down __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: violin Date: 05 Oct 2000 12:38:13 +1000 In the dying moments of the violin thread, I figured I should throw in a mention for one of my favourites, Eyvind Kang... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re:Uncle Bill's Minute Reconstructions Date: 05 Oct 2000 03:06:33 -0000 >"There's surely a difference between Laswell's >dub(ious) splice jobs from existing material and, say, `Hotel California'" In all honesty, I feel more creativity was invested in the making of Hotel California...in fact, you too can make your very own patented reconstituted destructions of your favourite musicks, just get yerself 2 turntables and a microphone, er...2 CD decks and a mixer, and I guarantee you will be splicin' and mixin', choppin', dicin' and reconstructin' in no time, and unlike Teo and Miles, you don't even need the artist's own creative input! But hey, you can listen to whatever you want, personally I don't like tributes or reconstitutions (kinda like orange juice don't ya think?), I would rather listen to musicians performing their own compositions, or as in the case of the much exampled Big Gundown, giving a unique new twist to the material...just play yer gitar there, Bill _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Mozart/ modern music (no zorn content) Date: 04 Oct 2000 23:43:02 EDT > (but Mozart is boring in the conventional sense), In a recent letter about L'Avventura, Sigmund popped in the line above. I believe it was not supposed to imply that Mozart is always boring but I happen to find Mozart one of the most amazing composers ever. He is possibly the least innovative (with a few exceptions) popular composer ever and his music is some of the easiest to analyze in terms of form, harmonic relationships, and melodic development. Yet no one ever has been or will ever be able to come close to coping his style. He has the most easily identifiable style I've ever heard and it's because is a true master. He is also able to take the most juvenile melodic material (many of his melodies are arpeggios or scales) and make the some of the most amazing music ever. He is one of the reasons I have some problems with modern music. Today composers have to bring something new to music in order to be excepted. Handy wrote 104 symphonies and Mozart wrote 41 but today most composers can't write the same kind of piece over and over again. Can some write something with a tape loop going out of sync with itself and not be compared to Reich? Total serials today will be compared to Boulez and Babbit. If you write difficult overlapping rhythms for piano your trying to be like Nancarrow. And if a composer works with silence they will be perceived in the image of Cage. Think of how many major work there were in the twentieth century that didn't bring a new "trick" to the music world. Don't get me wrong now. I love modern music and I'm a big fan of progress. But I don't feel something has to be new to be exciting. If that were true I would have to write off the blues and most other traditional music for that matter. I mean you guys know that blues tune about women ... you know, the one that's twelve bars ... come on with the I, IV, V progression? Just some food for thought. Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re:Uncle Bill's Minute Reconstructions Date: 05 Oct 2000 03:43:34 GMT >From: "Tim Keenliside" > >"There's surely a difference between Laswell's > >dub(ious) splice jobs from existing material and, say, >`Hotel California'" >In all honesty, I feel more creativity was invested in the >making of Hotel California...But hey, >you can listen to whatever you want, personally I don't >like tributes or reconstitutions (kinda like orange juice >don't ya think?), I would rather listen to musicians >performing their own compositions, or as in the case of >the much exampled Big Gundown, giving a unique new twist >to the material...just play yer gitar there, Bill Well, there's no accounting for taste, as we see time and again. Choose your poison. Whatever you like you like and for whatever reason. I don't know why I like Laswell's reconstructions any more than why I like and don't enjoy some of Zorn's productions. And actually, I didn't enjoy Uncle Bill's recent reconstruction of Irish music, while I did like the Cuban project (interpretation two over interpretation one). But what was interesting about Iara Lee's film "Modulations: Cinema for the Ear" was when Teo talks about the studio being like a musical instrument that he "plays" all the time. A point Laswell has made as well. I see these reconstructions as invoking a new paradigm of listening over production which is just as valid musically as any other production, whether you cathect with it or not. You can, as you say "rather listen" to whatever you like, but if you are going to say that a musical interpretation done in the studio is empirically of less aesthetic worth than live set of live musicians, I'm going to say it's because of how you are conditioned rather than your particular access to some aesthetic priority. If you don't like what Laswell does, that's fine by me. I suspect he gets a lot of flack because he's not avant-garde anymore, but he found that to be a dead category, which it really is not matter how much I enjoy certain avant players. In any case, if it's considered "dubious," with all the related puns, then this implies a notion of "authenticity" which is even more dubious. I think someone used the phrase "faux reggae" before which is simply conceptually and intellectually silly. The point is after all to be "false" in order to be "true." Intelligent criticism requires a bit more homework. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: PD: Re:violin Date: 05 Oct 2000 05:52:45 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Do: "Ken Waxman" DW: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Wyslano: 5 pazdziernika 2000 05:51 Temat: Odp: Re:violin | | | | | And Jerzy are there any Polish jazz violinists who | | weren't saxophonists first? | | | | | | Ken Waxman | | | | | Good question :)) | Yeah, two most famous /Urbaniak & Seifert/ started with saxes. | Violinist without pipes: | Krzesimir Debski - String Connection, now switched to the film & | contemporary concert music, alas.. | Maciej Strzelczyk with great CD's "Grappelling" and "Jobim" | Henryk Gembalski | Jan Bledowski - more bluesy, in SugarCabe Harris style | Ireneusz Dudek - same case like Bledowski | | Jerzy | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Mozart/ modern music (no zorn content) Date: 04 Oct 2000 23:22:29 -0400 On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 11:43:02PM -0400, User384726@aol.com wrote: > Handy wrote 104 symphonies and Mozart wrote 41 but today most composers can't Symphonies by W C Handy? Those would be worth hearing! :-) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Dauner Date: 05 Oct 2000 06:09:45 +0200 NP - Wolfgang Dauber amazing "The Oimels" Somebody knows about the possible CD reedition of the notorious "Output" recorded in 1970 for ECM or "Free Action" from 1967 /Saba/ with JL Ponty, Dudek, Weber. ?? Jerzy Matysiakiewicz jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 00:21:24 EDT i don't know much of the story behind any unreleased naked city compositions, however i do know they were a local band in boston, which covered naked city songs. zorn heard them and signed them to play their own original music. to my understanding they were first and foremost a hardcore band and you can hear it on the album...it is very crushing. and there are moments when it could very well BE naked city playing and i wouldn't be able to tell the difference. i definitely recommend Prelapse to fans of naked city and such. i'd give a better review, but i am still stuck on my new Mike Keneally cd. any fan of frank zappa should definitely check it out. try: www.keneally.com it will give you a link on the page to a place where you can download "Live in Japan" i promise you will be hooked. anywho. definitely check out Prelapse. dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: XMudhoneyX@aol.com Subject: Re: list demographics Date: 05 Oct 2000 00:25:43 EDT I'm 18 and I dressed like a woman once and much to my disapointment, I tore my pantyhose. . .but it made me feel sexy in a strung-out 5 dollar whore kinda way. Not that you'd care. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: list demographics Date: 05 Oct 2000 00:37:05 EDT In a message dated 10/5/00 12:26:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, XMudhoneyX@aol.com writes: << I'm 18 and I dressed like a woman once and much to my disapointment, I tore my pantyhose. . .but it made me feel sexy in a strung-out 5 dollar whore kinda way. >> ALL JOKING ASIDE, THIS IS WHAT MUSIC IS ALL ABOUT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 16:08:00 +1000 To the person asking about the Prelapse CD, yes, about half of the tunes are written by Zorn and are unreleased Naked City compositions. And Zorn also plays on these tunes. Their other tunes are less Naked City-ish, but still very strange (actually they're probably stranger generally)... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: new random acoustics releases Date: 05 Oct 2000 00:52:31 -0500 (CDT) just wanted to make sure this painful (in a good way) pun didn't get missed by anyone: "Schiaffini, Giancarlo Tuba Libre" ouch! ;) i think its a tuba full of rum and coke... 29 and counting, whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: schiaffini Date: 05 Oct 2000 08:43:30 +0200 Whit Schonbein wrote > > just wanted to make sure this painful (in a good way) pun didn't get > missed by anyone: > > "Schiaffini, Giancarlo > Tuba Libre" > > ouch! ;) i think its a tuba full of rum and coke... > For years Giancarlo devoted a lot of time and money going in the summer to Cuba to teach in music schools, collecting and bringing there used instruments, and such. What could one expect from someone who was the soloist of choice of that other Commie, Luigi Nono, for his Prometheus? (to be performed Nov. 9 in Milan, by the way). promo on His latest composition for the Italian Instabile orchestra, called Litania Sibilante (anagram of the band's name), is the title-track for the Cd just published by Enja, and it's a fantastic piece where snippets of big band jazz clash with violin and accordeon vaguely klezmer-sounding. Special guest Antonello Salis on accordeon. Mail me off list for more info... promo off Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Goryl?= Subject: Re: Age Date: 05 Oct 2000 00:17:30 -0700 (PDT) > Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:59:53 -0500 (EST) > From: Adam Taylor Tierney > Subject: Re: Age > > I'm 18, which appears to be younger than most people > on this list. Any > grade-schoolers? Oh, and here's me thinking that I'm the youngest on the list. I turn 20 in November. And I too am male. I'm a first year Uni student, so I probably do about as much work as a grade-schooler. Does that count? ~Nick. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: percussion + electronics (cf. Lytton) (sorry, long) Date: 05 Oct 2000 00:52:48 -0700 (PDT) On listening recently to Paul Lytton's (percussion/ live electronics) and Ken Vandermark's (reeds) duo ENGLISH SUITES (Wobbly Rail) and Lytton's and Wachsmann's brilliant SOME OTHER SEASON (ECM), I become interested in how the percussion/live electronics apparatus is set up. Photos of Lytton's kit (incl. electronics) from the early-mid Seventies (the EMANEM duos with Evan Parker) show a huge battery, a bit like Tony Oxley's kit from same era; but this reveals little. Lytton himself downplays the complexity of his electronics from a theoretical standpoint. (He modestly mentioned a few contact mics and a ring modulator to me after a performance once, and in the liners to SEASON he says: "It's a slight misnomer to apply the term "electronics" to my equipment, because apart from a very prehistoric ring modulator and a wah-wah pedal, my instrument is basically just wires and pieces of metal that are amplified. It functions on the principles of electric guitars --- just very quiet sounds that are amplified, sounds one normally wouldn't hear otherwise.") My questions: could anyone who's seen him use electronics and percussion --- tabletop or otherwise --- give me an idea of what the set-up looks like, and how he performs in it? What sounds does it elicit? The visual experience must be so much different, since on record the subtleties of the man's incredible extended technique and the organic use of already-physical electronics make his process so blurred. I end up refusing to imagine the physical, performative aspect of what's happening, because I become distracted and confused. Not as much "who's doing what, and with what?" as "what the hell's he doing?" In this regard, I can empathize with jazz-drummer friends who are knocked out and rendered helpless by, say, Gerry Hemingway or Ed Thigpen. Plus: how have other percussionists you've seen handled this kind of process-material integration, in a live setting? This is not the kind of thing I get to see much. Vicarious, I am. Almost done: can anyone describe and/or recommend Lovens older (preferably in-print) catalog, including the duos with Paul Lovens on Po Torch vinyl? Electronics there, methinks. Finally: Speaking of Paul "Snappy Dresser" Lovens, has anyone yet seen him on tour with Eugene Chadbourne, or heard their new double-album on Leo? I'm going to New Orleans to see two nights next week, but you can spoil the surprise if you want. Thanks for reading/responding, regards, -----s NP: Maryanne Amacher, SOUND CHARACTERS (Tzadik) (Yah! My ears are on fire! Oh my god it hurts ;> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 10:11:13 +0200 SOUPBEARD@aol.com wrote: > and there are moments when it > could very well BE naked city playing and i wouldn't be able to tell the > difference. i definitely recommend Prelapse to fans of naked city and such. > hi there. let me first say that i only know the prelapse tracks from zorn's "music for children" cd. and if those do in any way compare to their avant release, i personally would NOT EVEN TOUCH IT! i can only speak for myself, obviously, but i would quite surely ALWAYS be able to tell the difference between naked city and prelapse. the sound of prelapse just misses something (when playing zorn's compositions, at least). i can't put my finger on what exactly it is; but it simply misses something very big-time... patRice np: webern, complete works nr: schmitt, tokyo tango - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 19:44:06 +1000 > to tell the difference between naked city and prelapse. the sound of prelapse > just misses something (when playing zorn's compositions, at least). i can't put > my finger on what exactly it is; but it simply misses something very big-time... Well it's pretty hard to top those Naked City guys, particularly Baron and Frisell. And remember, Zorn wrote the tunes especially for them. To me, Naked City was always about the mixing of very different players to form an interesting whole (Frisell-country/surf/jazz, Horvitz-funk, etc.) while it seems that the members of Prelapse are thinking more on the same wavelength as each other. Oh, and another thing, the fact that Zorn never released the tunes with Naked City, it probably says something about them being at least a little bit less important to him than ones that were released... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: naked city line-up (was: Re: Prelapse) Date: 05 Oct 2000 11:03:14 +0200 Julian wrote: > Well it's pretty hard to top those Naked City guys, particularly Baron and > Frisell. hi julian, personally i would not point out those two guys. i think what made naked city so absolutely fan-fucking-tastic was the complete line-up. i think each and every one had his place in the band, and could not have been replaced. i feel they were a line-up made in heaven - including baron and frisell, but also the others, who i think were just as important. patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: RE: list demographics/ violin Date: 05 Oct 2000 11:19:38 +0200 Hi all, Well... for your stats, here is a 29 y. o. shortish french boy, living on the (usually) sunny mediterranean coast, and trying to finish his %#=A7.~=A4 PhD on tectonics....=20 .....and currently playing "My Funny Valentine", from the Mat Maneri Quintet "Acceptance" on HatOlogy.... The track is actually a Maneri (vioIa)/Randy Peterson (dms) duo, and I just love it... =20 Anyone's got comments/recommendations for duo or trio albums with Maneri and/or Randy Peterson/Ed Schuller ? I've only recently learned that such albums had been released (including some on Leo, I think) and I'm willing to know more... Thanks. Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: RE: Metal (groups with female vocalists) Date: 05 Oct 2000 06:40:17 -0400 Oh, man! How could I forget THE PLASMATICS!!!! The lead singer also had solo albums under the title of WOW (her initials: Wendy O. Williams) http://www.plasmatics.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: new Random Acoustics releases Date: 05 Oct 2000 07:28:59 -0400 At 08:37 PM 10/4/00 EDT, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: >here are descriptions for the four new Random Acoustics releases I mentioned >a few days ago. Verge (www.vergemusic.com) has them in now, and I should get >a bunch of the solo Lehn in next week sometime. Not that we don't like buying cds from you, but Cadence distributed RA before. Are they not on the distribution list for the label this time around? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Spaans Subject: Re: list demographics Date: 05 Oct 2000 12:49:12 +0200 (CEST) Okay, okay, Name: Leon Age: 25 Sex: Male Profession: Programmer City: The Hague (The Netherlands) Fav.Album: John Zorn - Bar Kokhba, Tom Waits - Bone Machine, Miles Davis - l'Ascencoeur pour l'Echafaud, Sonic Youth - Sister Mmmm, that felt good ;-) Bye, Leon > > Tom > 31 > Male > Teacher/tutor > New York > np: Miles David Chronicles, Disc two > nr: J.D. Salinger's "Franny and Zooey" > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re:Uncle Bill's the Minute Maid Date: 05 Oct 2000 13:52:47 GMT >From: "Tim Keenliside" >Laswell >was never particularly "avant-garde" in my books and he's >not really a technically adept bass player either, but I >still love the Material, Last Exit, and Massacre stuff. >But no matter which way you slice or dice it, his >reconstructions are just some lameass knockoff shit, okay >if you need some easy background cocktail muzak intro to >the music of Miles, Marley or Ireland, but why the hell >don't you just listen to the real thing? If you're >interested in dubwise stuff, you should be checkin' out >Scratch, King Tubby, Jack Ruby, Joe Gibbs*, Mad Scientist, >or Adrian Sherwood On-U Sound productions. What Teo Macero >did with Miles (and Mingus) was a lot more inspired, >unique and involved than these 'reconstructions', quite >seriously, you could knock one of those off in an >afternoon with an EQ and an effects rack, and that to me >is precisely what they sound like! Stop wasting your >valuable listening time! But, of course, all that is just >my opinion... Oh brother can you spare me a lecture. One nice 20-year old kid from Argentina writes to ask where he can get some more "reconstructions" because he's enjoyed a batch of four or so, so I supply him with some other options. And for that, we get a crusade in aesthetics from someone so hung up in his authenticity rhetoric that he can't see straight. I love this presumptuous education I always get when I mention Laswell in a dub context and they speak as if it so self-evident that he's blaspheming a tradition I presumably have no clue about. Give me a break. What makes you think I haven't heard this stuff? I knew better than to get involved in yet another one of these kinds of useless discussions. But I did anyway. Every few months or so, we always get a second rate iconoclast with an axe to grind who decides to make Laswell his toilet of the week with all the resounding flatulence vociferously bounding off the porcelain. And I'm left shaking my head, perplexed, wondering why such misdirected attentions aren't more productively placed. It's all really, really boring actually. Been trotted out a million times usually with little evidence of any kind. Just crappy impressions. Go play your Hotel California and leave us alone. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: list demographics Date: 05 Oct 2000 10:29:01 -0400 (EDT) I'm all for all forms of self-expression (sexual and otherwise) and believe in the right of anyone to express his or her opinions in any forum. BUT aren't these imitation personal ads and cross dressing experiences getting a little far away from the *musical* purpose of this list? Ken Waxman (Who thought endless lists of rock instrumentalists were bad enough) --- XMudhoneyX@aol.com wrote: > I'm 18 and I dressed like a woman once and much to > my disapointment, I tore my pantyhose. . .but it made me feel sexy in a strung-out 5 dollar whore kinda way. > Not that you'd care. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Berman" Subject: Re: percussion + electronics (cf. Lytton) (sorry, long) Date: 05 Oct 2000 10:52:55 -0400 : can anyone describe and/or recommend > Lovens older (preferably in-print) catalog, including > the duos with Paul Lovens on Po Torch vinyl?=20 I have two:=20 The Inclined Stick. (PoTorch4) solo. but produced, edited and engineered = by lovens. 1979. all improvised. sez: misc. percussion and = live-electronics. =20 and The Fetch w/ Lovens. (PoTorch8) 1984. also free improv. also listed = as percussion and live-electronics. this one complete unedited = performances recorded at the Improv. Symposium in Pisa and the (evans) = Parker Project in London, '80 and '81. Both I recall being great fascinating albums with all sorts of textures = and nuances, but I must admit I haven't pulled them out in a long while, = so I now must do my homework. I believe I picked them both up from = Cadence, don't know if they're still in print. mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Laswell/ pop/ Sigmund Date: 05 Oct 2000 17:24:41 +0100 Wow, there's been a lot of traffic here in the last few days ... >> don't ya think?), I would rather listen to musicians >> performing their own compositions, or as in the case of >> the much exampled Big Gundown, giving a unique new twist >> to the material...just play yer gitar there, Bill I don't mean to be rude, but this shows how much effort you put into understanding Laswell's work: none. Laswell's a bass player. Regardless of that, Laswell *is* giving a unique new twist to the material he reconstructs ... and in the case of the Miles Davis remixes, the point is obviously that there is no original version. Macero's version is just as valid as Laswell's one, as the original recordings feature endless studio jamming by the band which was then comprised by Macero into song-like structures. On IN A SILENT WAY, the first track has the first 5 minutes or so repeated at the end of the track ... so please don't tell us that Laswell spent five minutes doing his remixes and Macero worked months on them. If you're so sure that these remixes can be done with two turntables within such a short amount of time, then why don't you try it yourself? It's the same as people saying that anyone could play like all these avant-garde players because they can't hit a right note ... if these people are so sure about that, why don't they do it themselves? They'd see that it's not as easy as they think it is. OK, I'm also a bit shocked that no one really started discussing this high-brow-low-brow-hierarchy ... who says that pop stuff is intrinsically inferior to jazz or avantgarde music? OK, you said you don't want to impose such a hierarchy here but you did anyway. Different kinds of music require different skills ... I'm pretty sure that many avantgarde drummers couldn't play a "straight" rock song because they'd play way too much or way too complex or whatever. That doesn't make them bad drummers, but it doesn't make "straight" drummers superior or inferior drummers as well. Personally, as much as I enjoy noisy and avantgarde stuff, I sometimes think that it's a dead end musically. Every kind of music is valid and none is better or worse than all the others. (I don't mean to attack anyone here, it's just pleading for understanding, or so.) Well, and there's this Sigmund guy. I don't really sympathize with him, but then I don't really get upset about him either. I think some of you are probably a bit overreacting, don't you think so? I mean, in all my years on this list I've rarely seen such hostile personal remarks aimed towards a person on the list (as far as I remember, I've *never* seen something like this). He's expressing his opinion as everyone else does, and I can't see why his one-liners are so much worse than the ongoing jokes about age and clothes etc ... Kind regards, - Chris (22). NP: Godsmack, GODSMACK (1998). ___________________________________________________________________ ** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de ** ** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil ** Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn The Herbie Hancock Mailing List ___________________________________________________________________ "When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: cool your jets, fogies Date: 04 Oct 2000 11:05:33 -0500 jon: personally, I don't find you entertaining, just a waste of my time and bandwidth. please stop sending cutesy, smarmy oneliners into hundreds of other people's e-mail boxes. matt: Sigmund, no one wants you around here anymore. No one here gets frustrated about differences of opinion. We're all thornless roses around here you prick. Kurt: y'all, this ain' necessary. i imagine at other times you've noticed that silly threads end and frequent posters tend to level off. i'm not sure if we have etiquette rules here. i would say that genuinely offensive remarks (gender race religion sexuality stuff) and spam are impolite, but i would hope that loudmouthed goofiness could at least be tolerated. cripes, it don' really hurt you, do it? and even if it does, could i ask you, matt, not to speak for everyone. jon might have just ignored the absurd bastard, but at least he made it clear that he was only stating his opinion. i personally enjoyed the seamonster's banter and liked playing along a little, and i assumed by today it would taper. and i imagine some of the hundreds of us saw messages from me and said 'sheesh, shut the fuck up, what's shelley berman got to do with anything.' personally, i don't care who old everyone on this list is, for example, and i've never even thought about it before. but so what? those are just the posts that i scan past. IT'S OK. meanwhile, i'm now reading celine and spent last night and this morning listening intently to morton feldman's 4cd 'for philip guston.' both of those are pretty directly from things i've picked up here, and i'm enjoying both immensely. goofy loudmouths will not ruin this list, nor will they destroy your hard drive. i hope people new to the music and ideas we discuss here will continue to feel free to post their questions and ideas, and if they gots attitude, i hope they feel free to show it. kg np: return of the repressed: the john fahey anthology - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Mingus Presents Mingus Date: 04 Oct 2000 11:51:45 -0500 MartinMentioned: I believe this is currently available on Candid CCD 79005 "Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus." that plus information obtained from this useful website maintained, i believe, by some zlister here: http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/upcomingcds.html that mingus presents mingus will be reissued by candid on 10/24, makes me wonder if anyone knows anything about the reissue. this has been my favorite mingus album for 15 years and will be till i breathe my last breath. the quartet is kill! were it to come out with added material, i think surely i would die. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: new Random Acoustics releases Date: 05 Oct 2000 11:52:48 EDT In a message dated 10/5/00 7:25:34 AM, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: << Not that we don't like buying cds from you, but Cadence distributed RA before. Are they not on the distribution list for the label this time around? >> I'm sure you're right, North Country will probably stock all four titles., but Lehn owed me a bunch of CDs from our last trade. I'll be selling mine for $10 plus $1 shipping in the US. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: a night of brecht, oct. 14 Date: 04 Oct 2000 15:44:09 -0500 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: a cage so easily rattled requires rattling Date: 05 Oct 2000 12:15:29 -0500 in response to the suggestion made that jon abbey's opinions and use of bandwidth are more valid because he's smart and started a label (and with no offense meant toward jon, who is indeed smart and did start a label), bullshit! innocuous (if abundunt) comments made by one sigmund have made this place start to look ugly. no, there is absolutely no merit system of posting. sheezus! no, we don't kick folks like s. off because we don't like their jokes or whatever. often times there's things here that i find boring, ridiculous or even above my head. i ignore them. it's pretty freakin easy. those that choose to evaluate the worth of other list members (especially, might i add, someone who i'm pretty sure is younger than his naysayers and seems genuinely interested in flexing some opinions and seeing what happens) should keep their evaluations to their own g-d selves. who was it that quoted thumper earlier? here here. kg np: dominic duval/jason kao hwang - the experiment - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: next batch of Unheard Music Series releases Date: 05 Oct 2000 12:19:18 EDT wow, these guys are really cranking them out. this bunch is due in early 2001: HAL RUSSELL'S CHEMICAL FEAST: ELIXIR COLLECTION (Unheard Music 203CD) PETER BROTZMANN: FUCK DE BOERE (Unheard Music 211CD) JOE McPHEE: TRINITY REISSUE (Unheard Music 214CD) LUTHER THOMAS: FUNKY DONKEY REISSUE (Unheard Music 215CD) ROVA SAXOPHONE QUARTET: AS WAS REISSUE (Unheard Music 216CD) Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: a cage so easily rattled requires rattling Date: 05 Oct 2000 09:22:58 -0700 >>>no, there is absolutely no merit system of posting.<<< If there is no merit system for posting why are you giving people who express opinions different from yours such a hard time? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eisenbeil@aol.com Subject: Bruce Eisenbeil Trio at the Old Office TONIGHT Date: 05 Oct 2000 12:23:33 EDT Hello Friends, Just a brief note to remind you of tonights concert. The details are below. I hope to see you. Peace and best wishes, Bruce www.eisenbeil.com "Leading a trio, the young guitarist has an infectiously complicated style of trampling chords and wiggy lines that dart like bats with an attitude. This gig is made intriguing by his Ellington adaptation and the support of the great drummer Andrew Cyrille and bassist Jaribu Shahid." --- Gary Giddins, Village Voice October 10, 2000 Jaribu Shahid was called last week to begin a 3 week tour in Europe with David Murray. Nice work if you can get it. The multi-talented Leon Dorsey is with us tomorrow. On Thursday, October 5th at 8:00 & 9:30 p.m., Bruce Eisenbeil's ON POINT jazz trio will perform at the Knitting Factory in the Old Office which is located at 74 Leonard St, New York City, telephone: 212-219-3006. The group includes leader Bruce Eisenbeil on guitar, Leon Dorsey on bass and special guest Andrew Cyrille on drums. Tickets are $8 plus a one drink minimum. Convenient public transportation is available via C, E trains to Canal Street; 1, 9 trains to Franklin Street; 4,5,6 trains to City Hall. Ferocity, originality and subtlety describe this trio's music. Cutting edge guitarist, Bruce Eisenbeil will feature his original compositions along with unique renditions of tunes by Duke Ellington and Bud Powell. Eisenbeil has released 2 critically acclaimed CD's and he has been called one of the most unique jazz guitarists to emerge in decades. With a clear dark tone his playing is a force of direct action. He has performed and recorded with David Murray, William Parker, Bob Moses, Edgar Bateman, Mat Maneri and many others. Leon Dorsey has performed and recorded with Art Blakey, Lional Hampton, Muhal Richard Abrams, Dizzy Gillespie, John Lewis, Cassandra Wilson, Wynton Marsalis and others. He is a powerful bassist who can lay down a bouyant groove one minute and then fly into virtuosic kinetics the next. His latest CD as a leader is "Song of Songs". From very early on drummer Andrew Cyrille contributed to some of the most controversial, influential and ultimately important music of the second half of the 20th century. His 11-year tenure with Cecil Taylor has proven to be one of the most original collaborations in jazz. He has released over 25 recordings as a leader and has appeared on several dozen recordings as a sideman. HOPE TO SEE YOU ! ! ! For more info visit: www.eisenbeil.com WHO: Bruce Eisenbeil's ON POINT TRIO Bruce Eisenbeil - guitar Leon Dorsey - bass special guest Andrew Cyrille - drums WHEN: Thursday, October 5 2 sets: 8 & 9:30 pm WHERE: Knitting Factory - Old Office - 74 Leonard Street, NYC tel: 212-219-3006 cover: $8 TRANSPORTATION: C, E trains to Canal Street 1, 9 trains to Franklin Street 4,5,6 trains to City Hall - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: percussion + electronics (cf. Lytton) (sorry, long) Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:33:55 +0200 The Fetch w/ Lovens. (PoTorch8) 1984. also free improv. also listed as percussion and live-electronics. this one complete unedited performances recorded at the Improv. Symposium in Pisa Concert promoted by your truly, so you can guess age and dress style. Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: next batch of Unheard Music Series releases Date: 05 Oct 2000 12:39:02 -0400 >PETER BROTZMANN: FUCK DE BOERE (Unheard Music 211CD) I'm sure we'll know before long but who is/was De Boere and why would anybody want to copulate with him/her/it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: personal opinion Date: 05 Oct 2000 13:11:52 EDT Well said. > He's expressing > his opinion as everyone else does, and I can't see why his > one-liners are so much worse than the ongoing jokes about age and > clothes etc ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: a cage so easily rattled requires rattling Date: 05 Oct 2000 10:48:58 -0700 (PDT) --- kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: >no, there is absolutely no merit > system of posting. sheezus! no, > we don't kick folks like s. off because we don't > like their jokes or whatever. > often times there's things here that i find boring, > ridiculous or even above my > head. i ignore them. This might be a worthwhile discussion to have once in a while; getting "meta-list" might be a good way to evaluate our priorities and hammer out things that might otherwise flame up unproductively, and to palatably test old parameters and negotiate some new ones. Until the iron fist of Rizzi descends and reduces us all to rubble and then we start again post-apocalypse. (Kidding!) That said: lots of people seem to subscribe to a peculiar brand of politesse that comes to mind when I hear hear Thumper talking about being "nice". What does "nice" mean? Rather, "nice" isn't "mean" at all, but can't that quote mean "go with the flow, eschew controversy," etc etc ad anauseum? I'm sure that's not what Kurt means, or the original quoter, but I'm a little uncertain why anyone responded to Sigmund's inanities at all. When I say something stupid on-list, usually I'm treated to polite silence. The point is taken. I can't even remember how this started, except that Sigmund had the wrong idea and was sying some dumb things, and instead of being treated to disregard, some of the brightest and most insightful people on the list became flamey and incite-ful. How much better would have been a personal e.mail---at most---to the person in question, saying, "I think your content belongs elsewhere. Please stick to relevant topics." SOmeone too bull-headed to _get it_ after a few such e.mails will eventually be asked to leave by the authorities (who are, in this case, probably healthfully anarchic---who needs efficiency anyway? let the fascists have it!). Anyway, I can't believe I'm writing this in such painful goddamned detail. Ya'll are SHARP FOLKS! Why on earth is such a swell bunch of adventurers spending so much energy on a fluke? Hasn't anyone seen percussions using live electronics? I love you -----s, as in scott, not as in sigmund , sometimes a cigar really is a....well... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Quine/Maher/Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:55:10 +0100 Maurice Rickard said, re: Quine/Maher's "Basic" > What's not to like about it? Sure, it's not bursting out all over > the place with Quine solos (okay, that could be a source of your > disappointment), and it's got that 80s up-front Linn drum thing > (possibly another), but there's a great interplay between guitars > (yup, Fred plays, too) and there _are_ some hot Quine solos The drum sound really gets my goat - what was it with the early/mid eighties and electronic drums? It was also the first time I'd heard Quine away from Zorn (or Zorn-related stuff, "Painted Deserts" with Mori/Ribot I liked) and I suppose I would have liked a bit more rock'n'roll soloing. It's all a matter of opinion, and I was just saying it disappointed me. Still, I should have known...name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! To come in on the Prelapse thread: I picked the CD up second hand and like it a lot. But it raises a question in my mind - why was it released on Avant? They're from Boston, as far as I know they're not especially big in Japan, and if Zorn likes them so much why can't he give them a release on Tzadik? Would the CD have cost more than $5000 to record? I can't see why. Releasing a CD on Avant surely limits the amount of buyers outside Japan. You have to be really certain you're gonna like it (or be a Zorn completist) to pay the import price. Even second hand it was $16. I seem to remember Alex from the band posting occasionally in the past - if you're still here, can you shed any light on all this? Alastair NP: Richard Hell & The Voidoids - Destiny Street (with some kickass Quine solos) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Adam Taylor Tierney Subject: Philip Johnston's Transparent Quartet Date: 05 Oct 2000 13:02:23 -0500 (EST) Hey, I'm looking for information on Philip Johnston and the web has failed me, so I thought I'd draw on the scarily inclusive reservoir of music information that is this list. His quartet is playing near me in Indiana and I hear that he's played at the Knitting Factory; I've never heard of him, but I thought you guys might have some information since he appears to come from the New York scene. Apparently his quartet is accompanying seven short films by Georges Melies, which sounds intriguing. Anyway, any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Adam Tierney - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:04:58 GMT I said, about ten minutes ago: >..name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! Well, apart from Husker Du's "Zen Arcade", obviously... Alastair (feeling a bit sheepish) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 13:24:53 -0400 On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:55:10PM +0100, Alastair Wilson wrote: > The drum sound really gets my goat - what was it with the early/mid eighties > and electronic drums? It was also the first time I'd heard Quine away from > Zorn (or Zorn-related stuff, "Painted Deserts" with Mori/Ribot I liked) and > I suppose I would have liked a bit more rock'n'roll soloing. It's all a > matter of opinion, and I was just saying it disappointed me. Still, I should > have known...name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! King Crimson: Three of a Perfect Pair -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 14:09:03 -0400 At 6:55 PM +0100 10/5/00, Alastair Wilson wrote, re: Quine/Maher's "Basic" > >The drum sound really gets my goat - what was it with the early/mid eightie= s >and electronic drums? Gotcha. Completely understandable, but I've managed to listen past it. I really do wish they would have mixed them lower, but I'll take what's there to dig. >It was also the first time I'd heard Quine away from >Zorn (or Zorn-related stuff, "Painted Deserts" with Mori/Ribot I liked) and >I suppose I would have liked a bit more rock'n'roll soloing. _Very_ good record. Have you heard the Corin Curschellas _Valdun: Voices of Rumantsch_ record? Quine, Ribot, Greg Cohen, Ikue Mori, Christian Marclay... I would have liked to have heard Quine on every track, but there are some fine ones on there, notably "Violenza," "Al Mar," "Da Not," "Crisa," and "Sainza S=F6n" (not all of which have Quine on them). >It's all a >matter of opinion, and I was just saying it disappointed me. Still, I shoul= d >have known...name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! No flames here. Good rock record in 1984... uh, I'm sure there is one, but I'm having a hard time thinking of it. FWIW, Tom Verlaine's 1984 album has a lot of drum machine on it as well, and I have to listen past that one, too. >NP: Richard Hell & The Voidoids - Destiny Street (with some kickass Quine >solos) That one's on my list, too. Haven't heard it yet, tho. Regards, Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re: Philip Johnston's Transparent Quartet Date: 05 Oct 2000 14:13:02 -0400 Hello Adam, His web page is http://home.earthlink.net/~philjohnston/. I heard him twice: first time with Transparent Quartet and second time with reunited The Microscopic Septet. Both gigs were great and very joyful. Though I cannot say that it was really creative music. It sounds and feels good but don't expect something exciting in compositions and arrangements. Just lots of fun stuff. Transparent Quartet is less energetic and theatrical I think but the music is still good although it sounds like a music for a movie even if it was not composed to it. Still interesting and relaxing. Thursday, October 05, 2000, you wrote to me: ATT> Hey, I'm looking for information on Philip Johnston and the web ATT> has failed me, so I thought I'd draw on the scarily inclusive reservoir of ATT> music information that is this list. His quartet is playing near me in ATT> Indiana and I hear that he's played at the Knitting Factory; I've never ATT> heard of him, but I thought you guys might have some information since he ATT> appears to come from the New York scene. Apparently his quartet is ATT> accompanying seven short films by Georges Melies, which sounds intriguing. ATT> Anyway, any information would be greatly appreciated. -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 14:13:04 -0400 Well, there you go. I had thought 1985 on _ZA_; I was wrong, obviously. How about _Let It Be_ (Replacements)? And the Minutemen.... But no drum machines to be found on those. Saw Mike Watt last night, btw--fantastic show, tight band, great choice of tunes. Highly recommended--the band rocks, swings, and goes "out"--what more could you want? Faves: covers of Wire's "the 15th," TV's "Little Johnny Jewel" and "Friction." Cheers, Maurice At 6:04 PM +0000 10/5/00, Alastair Wilson wrote: >I said, about ten minutes ago: > >>..name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! > >Well, apart from Husker Du's "Zen Arcade", obviously... > >Alastair (feeling a bit sheepish) > -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 14:15:31 -0400 At 1:24 PM -0400 10/5/00, Joseph Zitt wrote: >On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:55:10PM +0100, Alastair Wilson wrote: > >> name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! > >King Crimson: Three of a Perfect Pair Okay, now it's my turn--I remember being disappointed by this one. Glad you dug it, though. -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Mingus Slays Marxist Date: 05 Oct 2000 11:21:23 -0700 (PDT) --- kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > MartinMentioned: >>I believe this is currently available on Candid CCD >>79005 "Charles Mingus >>Presents Charles Mingus." > > that plus information obtained from this useful > website maintained, i believe, > by some zlister here: > > http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/upcomingcds.html > > that mingus presents mingus will be reissued by > candid on 10/24, makes me wonder > if anyone knows anything about the reissue. this has > been my favorite mingus > album for 15 years and will be till i breathe my > last breath. the quartet is > kill! were it to come out with added material, i > think surely i would die. Don't die Kurt! If you wait till 2002 to die, you can hear Miles Davis Juan Le Pins Sessions (Columbia) 2 CDs – 2002 — July 1969 concerts with Shorter, Corea, Holland, and DeJohnette. The second concert is unissued. Miles Davis The Complete Live at the Blackhawk 4 CDs (Columbia) - 2002 — with Mobley, Kelly, Cobb, Chambers. Miles Davis Tribute To Jack Johnson Sessions (Columbia) box set - 200x Yeah! Give it up for acquisition-lust! Give it up for the sublime! ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: request Date: 05 Oct 2000 13:19:25 -0500 (CDT) could everyone interested in the ongoing who's a jerk and who's not thread please take it off-list? and *please* don't respond to this message unless it's off-list. thanks. whit (who thinks the ghost of amos from rec.music.bluenote has possesed the zorn list, and promises he won't waste any more bandwidth with such requests). np - robyn hitchcock - invisible hitchcock - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Philip Johnston's Transparent Quartet Date: 05 Oct 2000 11:28:06 -0700 (PDT) --- Adam Taylor Tierney wrote: > Hey, I'm looking for information on Philip Johnston > and the web > has failed me, so I thought I'd draw on the scarily > inclusive reservoir of > music information that is this list. The Zorn connection is right-on (Johnston has an album of film music on Tzadik, one score of which is for THE MUSIC OF CHANCE, which I believe is based on a novel by Paul Auster, who is a friend of Zorn's----yeah!), and he was briefly discussed before on-list as the composer of NPR music, I think. His Web Site of Madness (replete with crazed circus music) is at: http://home.earthlink.net/~philjohnston/ Go now, and sin no more. (Use Google.com) ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcizon@800.com Subject: Good Rock Records Of '84 Date: 05 Oct 2000 11:28:55 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02EFA.238DE1FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Husker Du - Zen Arcade Minutemen - Double Nickels On The Dime Los Lobos - How Will The Wolf Survive? R.E.M. - Reckoning Meat Puppets - Meat Puppets II The Fall - The Wonderful And Frightening World The Replacements - Let It Be Pogues - Red Roses For Me That's all I could come up with off the top of my head. Not a bad year for SST (or Minneapolis, for that matter). Thanks to all for the Prelapse posts. I'll see if I can find a copy at a local store that allows "previews." Murray ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02EFA.238DE1FB Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good Rock Records Of '84

Husker Du - Zen Arcade
Minutemen - Double Nickels On The Dime
Los Lobos - How Will The Wolf Survive?
R.E.M. - Reckoning
Meat Puppets - Meat Puppets II
The Fall - The Wonderful And Frightening = World
The Replacements - Let It Be
Pogues - Red Roses For Me

That's all I could come up with off the top of my = head. Not a bad year for SST (or Minneapolis, for that matter).

Thanks to all for the Prelapse posts. I'll see if I = can find a copy at a local store that allows = "previews."

Murray

------_=_NextPart_001_01C02EFA.238DE1FB-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Good Rock Records Of '84 Date: 05 Oct 2000 14:48:39 EDT In a message dated 10/5/00 2:30:11 PM, mcizon@800.com writes: << Minutemen - Double Nickels On The Dime >> an incredible record, highly recommended for anyone who hasn't heard it, although my most played Minutemen CD is Post-Mersh, volume 2 (SST), which contains all of the superb Project Mersh, along with another pretty good EP, Buzz Or Howl Under The Influence Of Heat. D. Boon's (guitar/vocals) death in a car crash in 1985 was a huge loss. one of the great rock bands of all time, and still less appreciated than they should be. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Good Rock Records Of '84 Date: 05 Oct 2000 15:02:36 -0400 Then I'll make an annoyance of myself and reiterate that y'all should see Mike Watt on his current tour. http://www.hootpage.com/hoot_pissbagtour.html He'll be in your own 'hood tomorrow; Philadelphia tonight. Cheers, Maurice At 2:48 PM -0400 10/5/00, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote, re Minutemen: > >one of the great rock bands of all time, >and still less appreciated than they should be. > >Jon >www.erstwhilerecords.com > >- -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: re: a cage so easily rattled needs rattling Date: 05 Oct 2000 15:09:03 -0500 me: >>>no, there is absolutely no merit system of posting.<<< sZ: >>If there is no merit system for posting why are you giving people who >>express opinions different from yours such a hard time? my only objections have been to people taking it upon themselves to tell another member not to post and even to get off the list (and to presume to speak for everyone on the list), all for comments so banal and inoffensive that i'm surprised this discussion carries on. and i'm sorry to prolong it, except that i actually do care about this place. as gets pointed out every so often by different list members, we have something of value here, and i chose to defend it when i saw some (in my opinion) very negative traits developing. it's something like if you're favorite music venue - - not just a place where you saw great sets, but where you'd come to know people in the audience -- suddenly instituted a drink minimum. mightn't you say 'what about people who don't drink? what about people who are underage? i don't want to see them excluded.' true it wasn't done with any authority or enforcement, but i would like to say (as someone who has probably earned a little merit for having some moments of insight and doing some work to support the music by creating a new venue in nyc, since these things seem now to matter) that i support anyone's right to talk, opine, spout off, ask questions and make mistakes in this forum. christ, i once posted here 'john coltrane invented jazz and albert ayler perfected it, everyone else is just filling in the blanks' because i thought it was funny (while making a ridiculously exagerrated point about my own likes). as stoopid as that is to say, i only got two responses trying to gauge if i was serious. what was the big deal with what sigmund said? i'm a-flabbergasted and rather put off. on the other hand, it was only a handful of people that found sigmund's comments so distasteful that they had to post to everyone about it. hundreds of people never post at all. i guess i should try and keep that in mind as i try to put forth my own opinions in order to try to preserve what i really value about the zornlist. my apologies to the lurkers. kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: a night of brecht, oct. 14 Date: 05 Oct 2000 15:14:19 -0500 Please include in listings or announce Contact: 212-567-0780 Neues Kabarett presents Interpreting Brecht - an Evening of Poetry and Song Celebrating The Brecht Forum's 25th Anniversary On Saturday, October 14 at 9 pm, a special performance will celebrate the 25th Anniversary of The Brecht Forum. The event is $8 at 122 West 27th Street, 10th Floor, between 6th and 7th Avenues in Manhattan. 9 pm "How to Screw an Angel" - a three person performance that reimagines Brecht's erotic poems in the shape of a contemporary narrative: a boxer, two women, a single night in Hamburg or New Orleans. Directed by James Graham, with the assistance of Gudrun Arndt (text) and Sam Lipman (music). 10:30 pm - Electronica Brecht - performed by: Gisburg (vocals), Karen Mantler (piano and synthesizer), Phil Painson (sampler, percussion) and Kato Hideki (bass) and featuring electronic, improvised interpretations of music by Brecht, Weill, Eissler and Dessau with text by Brecht. Background: At the time of his death in 1956, Bertolt Brecht left behind an unedited trove of erotic poems, reflections on the passionate life of the body. The poems, written throughout Brecht's life, are the secret journal entries of his emotional existence, recording his desire to know himself and others. They neither reduce humanity to a set of physical reflexes nor do they intellectualize passion. They are brutal, direct, funny, enraging. Those who think they know everything about Brecht are in for a surprise with "How to Screw an Angel." "Electronica Brecht" was organized by Gisburg, a singer/composer from Berlin who has toured around the world as a concert singer for new music. Settling down in NYC in 1992, she has been working with musicians such as Cassatt String quartet; Gary Lucas; Roy Nathanson; Anthony Coleman; Myra Melford; William Hooker; and John Zorn, whose label Tzadik has released three CDs of Gisburg's compositions. She founded the experimental electronica band Douce with Phil Painson. "Lotte Lenya once said that nobody can sing Weill's Music like Teresa Stratas. So I listened to Stratas' singing and with all the artistic respect to her I basically thought it was horrible. Which gave us the freedom to do whatever we wanna do with this wonderful music. An Electronica Improvisation with the original texts and translations true to the Brecht's political sexiness." - Gisburg The Brecht Forum is a place for people who are working for fundamental social change and a new culture that puts human needs first. Offerings range from classes, forums and panel discussions to art exhibits, poetry readings and participatory theater workshops. The Forum's work is organized through projects that include The New York Marxist School, The Institute for Popular Education, The Organizers Program and Arts at the Brecht. Of the many non-sectarian, left political schools that emerged in the 1970s, The Brecht Forum has the distinction of thriving in the year 2000. The Forum continues to believe that we are transformed through our acts of study as well as through our acts of struggle. Upcoming 25th anniversary celebrations this fall and winter range from a dramatic reading of Tony Kushner's play "Slavs! Thinking About the Longstanding Problems of Virtue and Happiness" to roundtable discussions under the banner "Learning & Transforming Consciousness: Education & Movement Building." The 25th anniversary celebrations will culminate with a really fun party in December. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Mingus Presents Mingus Date: 05 Oct 2000 15:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Kurt: Check Brian Priestly's Mingus book. I don't think there's any extra Mingus material that hasn't been used on other Candid discs. Don't know about "alternate takes", though. Ken Waxman --- kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > that mingus presents mingus will be reissued by > candid on 10/24, makes me wonder > if anyone knows anything about the reissue. this has > been my favorite mingus > album for 15 years and will be till i breathe my > last breath. the quartet is > kill! were it to come out with added material, i > think surely i would die. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re[2]: violin,Feldman and Vandermark, Age Date: 05 Oct 2000 21:55:34 +0200 Mark Feldman is the greatest violin player I ever heared. Check out his duo SPACES with Wolfgang Puschnig. And he plays great soli on Uri Caine's Mahler recordings (Live and Studio). But his best stuff is on Dave Douglas' Charms Of The night sky. Does anyone know OPEN LAND by John Abercrombie? I just know one track from a promo cd. For your poll: 18, male (8-) PEACE Tim PS: Mark Feldman will play with Dave Douglas' Charms Of The Night Sky in Nürnberg, Germany, in november. Maybe someone is interested? I saw them two years ago. The gig was much better than the CD. The people were crying! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dirlack@t-online.de (Bjoern Dirlack) Subject: Re: Lytton Date: 05 Oct 2000 22:06:27 +0200 Scott Handley schrieb: > Paul Lytton > My questions: could anyone who's seen him use > electronics and percussion --- tabletop or otherwise > --- give me an idea of what the set-up looks like, and > how he performs in it? What sounds does it elicit? It´s an reduced "regular" drum kit (bass drum, snare, cymbals). Besides is a standing metal frame with different amplified wires. He bows or plucks the wires and uses volume pedals. The drum kit is mostly treated by the bow(s). He also uses microphones for amplifying some voice-effects. It sounds howling and croaking and rattling - lo-fi. But mostly not loud. He uses this set-up in concert with the "insect" players, seperately from his works as a more energetic drummer (Evan Parker Trio). > Plus: how have other percussionists you've seen > handled this kind of process-material integration, in > a live setting? Swiss-based Guenter Mueller - amplified drum kit plus minidisc-player. He has his own label: For4ears. www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ > Almost done: can anyone describe and/or recommend > Lovens older (preferably in-print) catalog, including > the duos with Paul Lovens on Po Torch vinyl? > Electronics there, methinks. Yes, percussion and live-electronics. They are probably interesting for you, but not my favourites. Bur really great is the Lytton solo "The inclined stick" - an early "noise" record. My favourite Po Torch-records: Paul Lovens / Toshinori Kondo "The Last Supper": rough and lovely Paul Lovens / Urs Voerkel "Goldberg": sensitive and lovely Paul Lovens / Guenter Christmann / Maarten Altena "Weavers": warm and lovely They are all available I think - ask Paul. > Finally: Speaking of Paul "Snappy Dresser" Lovens, has > anyone yet seen him on tour with Eugene Chadbourne, or > heard their new double-album on Leo? I'm going to New > Orleans to see two nights next week, but you can spoil > the surprise if you want. You MUST go. I remember three Berlin concerts two/three years ago. One of them probably one of THE concerts in the 90s. Rough impro and country songs and Paul as a really SWINGING drummer. Unfortunately I never heard the Victo and Leo discs. Bjoern NP: Fennesz "Hotel Paral.lel" Mego Iskra 1903 "Chapter One 1970-1972" Emanem Talk Talk "Spirit of Eden" EMI - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: good rock albums from 1984 Date: 05 Oct 2000 16:25:07 -0400 >>..name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! >Well, apart from Husker Du's "Zen Arcade", obviously... Zen Arcade is indeed a good one but here are 4 more that come to mind: Big Black - Racer X ep for crediting their drum machine, Roland, as an equal in the band Killdozer - Intellectuals are the Shoeshine Boys of the Ruling Elite for continually championing the proletariat cause in their music SWANS - COP for the lyrics: Cut off the head. Cut off the arms. Cut off the legs. Get rid of the body. Heartache to heartache. Job to Job. Van Halen - 1984 This last one because is not "Jump" the rock anthem of the 1980's? David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: 1984 rock Date: 05 Oct 2000 22:16:52 +0100 > name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! NP: Iron Maiden, POWERSLAVE (1984) ... Kind regards, - Chris. ___________________________________________________________________ ** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de ** ** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil ** Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn The Herbie Hancock Mailing List ___________________________________________________________________ "When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: list demographics/ violin Date: 05 Oct 2000 16:22:16 -0500 Pascal Cortes wrote: > .....and currently playing "My Funny Valentine", from the Mat Maneri > Quintet "Acceptance" on HatOlogy.... The track is actually a Maneri > (vioIa)/Randy Peterson (dms) duo, and I just love it... > Anyone's got comments/recommendations for duo or trio albums with Maneri > and/or Randy Peterson/Ed Schuller ? I've only recently learned that such > albums had been released (including some on Leo, I think) and I'm willing > to know more... Mat and Randy have a duo CD out on the No More label, 'Light Trigger.' Other recent Maneri: 'Soul Search' (AUM Fidelity) - duets with Joe Morris, and 'Blue Decco' (Thirsty Ear) - quartet with Craig Taborn, William Parker and Gerald Cleaver. All should be readily available through the usual web sources. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Axel Dorner/Fred Lonberg-Holm/Michael Zerang: "Ranzen," 'Claque' (Meniscus - what a damn fine new label...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: good rock albums from 1984 Date: 05 Oct 2000 16:36:23 -0400 And don't forget the two Half Japanese albums that have just been reissued: Sing No Evil & Our Solar System. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: me and paul (chadbourne/lovens) Date: 05 Oct 2000 16:39:54 -0500 me and paul is the name the chadbourne/lovens duo have taken, after the willie nelson song about touring. of the two discs patrizio(sp?) on victo and 'young at heart' on leo, patrizio is probably the better. only two "songs" as i recall, so where you stand on eugene's vocals might help determine (i personally like them). lovens brings out the best in chadbourne's improvising, and both have some really great moments. patrizio especially has some really delicate, interesting playing by both. but, as has been said here before, the leo one could have been edited down to a single cd (it's a double). still, i'm a sucker for eugene and i enjoy the 2-disc set beginning to end. plus 'young at heart' is one of the all time great songs, and it's great to hear ec sing it. eugene has put some new cdr titles on his site, by the by: http://www.nr.infi.net/~chadnc/HouseOfChadula/EugeneHome.html cheerios. kg np: the plastics - all across the usa 80 live (anyone with any thoughts or knowledge about this group, however spare, please write me. i'm curious.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Festivals Webpage? Date: 05 Oct 2000 16:52:02 -0400 Is there a sorta central webpage for improv festivals and the like? Looks like I'm not going to get to the Autumn Uprising in Boston (procrastinated way too much in trying to book an affordable hotel), but I vaguely recall reading (here?) of some other events on the US East Coast next week/end. I have the week off (well, after being sidelined Monday by Yom Kippur) and might be in the mind to wander. Clues? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: recommended books (some actual Zorn content!) Date: 05 Oct 2000 17:54:45 -0400 During a troll to kill time at a slow restaurant last weekend, I picked up the fall issue of a magazine called Bookforum, with J.L.Borges on the cover. Not a bad magazine, as these things go, but for the benefit of those who don't have access to it, it has a column of hot tips from various people, including Christian Marclay and our boy JZ. Marclay is enjoying Douglas Kahn's Noise, Water, Meat, which he reads 'with the same excitement' as Wireless Imagination (ed Kahn and Geregory Whitehead), Attali's Noise, and Toop's Ocean of Sound. 'These books try to rehabilitate the ear in a culture dominated by the eye.' Zorn provides a list of books without commentary: Artaud's Oeuvres Compl=E8tes, volume XXV; Edward Rice's Captain Sir Richard Francis Burton; Hana to Hebi, buy Dan Oniroku; Think of the Self Speaking: Harry Smith selected interviews, ed. Rani Singh; Encrypted Messages in Alban Berg's Music, ed. Siglind Bruhn; Molinier: Une Vie d'Enfer, by Pierre Petit; Sinatra! The Song is You, by Will Friedwald; and Conversations with W.S.Burroughs, ed. Allen Hibbard. I'll toss in one of my own. I just finished by first Cioran book, Ecartelement (Drawn and Quartered), and I think Zorn included Cioran on his list on the Tzadik site. Strange and subtle pessimism, half essay and half aphorisms. Any other recommendations on him? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: me and me and paul Date: 05 Oct 2000 17:56:33 EDT In a message dated 10/5/00 4:07:36 PM, Dirlack@t-online.de writes: << Finally: Speaking of Paul "Snappy Dresser" Lovens, has anyone yet seen him on tour with Eugene Chadbourne, or heard their new double-album on Leo? I'm going to New Orleans to see two nights next week, but you can spoil the surprise if you want. >> I've seen this duo perform twice, at Victoriaville in 1996, and in Nancy, France this past summer. the Victo set was superb, primarily abstract improv grooves with Dr. C. doing a million different things with his guitar, as well as licking balloon after balloon and rubbing them against his trousers before popping them, all while Lovens kept swinging, unfazed by any of it. maybe twice during the hour set, the two seamlessly transitioned into songs with Chadbourne on vocals. the set this summer, on the other hand, was basically just songs, with much less improv, and for me, grew boring very quickly. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: 1984 rock Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:04:49 EDT In a message dated 10/5/00 4:21:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stamil@t-online.de writes: << > name me a good rock oriented record that came out in 1984! NP: Iron Maiden, POWERSLAVE (1984) ... Kind regards, - Chris. >> Metallica "Ride The Lightning" NP: Iron Maiden "Killers" Tom ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Festivals Webpage? Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:06:26 EDT In a message dated 10/5/00 5:34:57 PM, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << Is there a sorta central webpage for improv festivals and the like? >> not really. there's some good info on the Upcoming Concerts page on the Euro Free Improv site (www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/), but those are mostly European shows. since you're looking for East Coast shows, I guess I'd suggest looking at the Tonic and Knitting Factory sites, and then doing web searches for any artists playing there that you're interested in, who may also be doing Baltimore/DC shows. I don't know of any other US festivals next week, unless you're counting Jon Rose's series of shows at Tonic which he's dubbed the Strung Festival. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Newish Bailey from Japan? Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:13:20 -0500 Hi, all: Any Z-listers know of a good source for acquiring this Japanese recording, apparently issued in June or July? Anyone heard it? Derek Bailey/Sabu Toyozumi/Peter Br=F6tzmann - 'Live in Okayama 1987' Improvised Company CD002 Derek Bailey, guitar; Peter Br=F6tzmann, tenor saxophone, alto saxophone, tarogato; Yoshisaburo Toyozumi, drums, percussion. 1.PB + YT (21.45) 2.DB (22.25) 3.DB + PB + YT (27.29) Recorded live in Aix-en-provence, Okayama, Japan, on 16 November 1987. This appears on Peter Stubley's excellent European Free Improvisation website (for you newcomers, it's a must see: http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ ) and I really must track this down. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - John Butcher & Terri Kapsalis, "The Interior Design," 'Music on Seven Occasions' (Meniscus) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: 1984 rock Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:17:51 -0400 THE SMITHS - the smiths what started it all!!!!!!!!!!!!! Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. JOHN ZORN . the bribe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Festivals Webpage? Date: 05 Oct 2000 17:37:08 -0400 On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:06:26PM -0400, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > not really. there's some good info on the Upcoming Concerts page on the Euro > Free Improv site (www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/), but those are mostly > European shows. since you're looking for East Coast shows, I guess I'd > suggest looking at the Tonic and Knitting Factory sites, and then doing web > searches for any artists playing there that you're interested in, who may > also be doing Baltimore/DC shows. I don't know of any other US festivals next > week, unless you're counting Jon Rose's series of shows at Tonic which he's > dubbed the Strung Festival. Hmm, well, I'm already in DC, so I've checked the local stuff :-) And I get to NYC often enough that it's not much of a vacation. The "choose a train by chance operations" method of improvisational vacationing is looking increasingly tempting... -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Newish Oxley from Norway? Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:23:58 -0500 Or, for that matter, anyone know anything about this one? Anyone heard it? Tony Oxley Project 1: 'Triangular Screen' SOFA 501 Tony Oxley, drums, percussion, pre-recorded tape; Ivar Grydeland, guitar; Tonny Kluften, double bass. 1.First scan (15.22) 2.Second scan (17.35) 3.Third scan (12.17) 4.Fourth scan (03.42) Track 1 was recorded in March 2000 at Kongsberg Jazzfestival, Norway; other tracks recorded in May 2000 at Bla, Osla. (I should maybe stay the hell away from Stubley's website if I know what's good for me... all I wanted to do was find out more about Axel Dorner, and the site just keeps sucking me in...) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - John Butcher, "4th Singularity," 'Music on Seven Occasions' (Meniscus) PS - New Yorkers should mark November 2-4 on their calendars... Cecil Taylor/Tony Oxley Duo at Tonic, two sets each night at 8 and 10... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Francisco Lopez Date: 05 Oct 2000 18:28:10 -0400 Consistent with my usual habit of taking a few years to at last getting around to hearing someone, I finally picked up a disc by Francisco Lopez, his 'Untitled #89' on Touch (fortuitously thrust into my hands by Tom Pratt at OM). I like it a great deal--kind of like being in the center of a turbine engine for forty minutes, though the final 18 or so minutes of silence seems...extreme (or is it silence?; have to listen again more closely). Anyway, I'd appreciate hearing other Lopez recommendations. Thanks. Brian Olewnick PS: the bio of Sir Richard Burton that Caleb mentioned is fantastic--quite an amazing character. Also comes with a super portrait of Burton by the occasionally fine but largely unknown these days English painter Frederic Leighton. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: cool your jets, fogies Date: 05 Oct 2000 16:59:49 -0600 >>matt: >>Sigmund, no one wants you around here anymore. >>No one here gets frustrated about differences of opinion. >>We're all thornless roses around here you prick. > >Kurt: >y'all, this ain' necessary. Kurt - it appears I made a big mistake. I guess it really is hard to get certain forms of humor across in typed font but I was kidding and I'm sorry if that was misunderstood. Here's part of the original body of my message: >>...i often feel like a fucking idiot while I'm railing on something that >>drives me crazy. I think "I can't stand people who rant on other >>people ...but I GOTTA say something....DON'T I??" When I have an opinion that I'm pretty set in I tend to feel like saying something about it. Ex - personally, I don't like it when people try to apply a bunch of theory to music in order to "understand" it -- especially music of other cultures. I also feel like restating the point in order to drive it home. I argue plenty against certain groups/musicians/genres that I personally don't like as do other people on the list. >>So I guess what I'm saying is: >>Sigmund, no one wants you around here anymore. >>No one here gets frustrated about differences of opinion. >>We're all thornless roses around here you prick. The key line here is the third -- this is where the phrase "tounge and cheek" comes in. People here often have conflicting views and are very quick to let them be known around here. I was hoping that the fact that this statement was a glaring falsity would bring into question the intention of the other sentences. I've seen plenty of people do essencially what Sigmund has been doing on this list and I've done it myself. When people here have an opinion they defend it...sometimes people carry on trying to flesh out their statements usually because the particular thing they are speaking against/for is something that really bothers/excites them. I think a lot of what makes this list a discussion list *are* differences of opinion. There are plenty of interesting concepts surrounding the Beatles debate...and many other statements which have initially represented only stong opinion lead to juctifications which can eventually result in interesting theoretical/conceptual discussion. Sigmund has only been doing what is natural -- defending an opinion he feels strongly about. FWIW - Some of the funniest stuff I've seen on the list have been the - I'll call them matches - between Patrice + Bill A. I don't think there's too much 'wrong' per say with what sigmund has been doing and again, I apologize for causing confusion. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: list demographics Date: 05 Oct 2000 19:21:44 -0400 Ken Waxman wrote: > I'm all for all forms of self-expression (sexual and > otherwise) and believe in the right of anyone to > express his or her opinions in any forum. > > BUT aren't these imitation personal ads and cross > dressing experiences getting a little far away from > the *musical* purpose of this list? > Yes they are. And.......? Mike 43 I look good without a shirt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: a cage so easily rattled needs rattling Date: 05 Oct 2000 17:50:34 -0600 >my only objections have been to people taking it upon themselves to tell >another member not to post and even to get off the list (and to presume >to speak for everyone on the list) I was simply trying to point out that it would be silly of us to say that we don't have strong opinions of the like which Sigmund has expressed. We all have our little soft spots. I was expressing the polar opposite of the sentiment that he should remove himself. but, I made the terrible mistake of neglecting to take in account the fact that tone of voice doesn't translate so well to computer screens sorry again for bringing about confused objections from you Kurt, Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: recommended books (some actual Zorn content!) Date: 05 Oct 2000 20:10:26 -0400 Hello, >I'll toss in one of my own. I just finished by first Cioran book, >Ecartelement (Drawn and Quartered), and I think Zorn included Cioran on his >list on the Tzadik site. Strange and subtle pessimism, half essay and half >aphorisms. Any other recommendations on him? I personnally like _Syllogismes de l'amertume_ (sorry, I don't know what are the titles in English but I could risk a traduction if you need). It is basically a book of short thoughts/maxims/aphorisms with a lot of cynism. I remember one of them and I think it gives a good intuition of the overall tone: "Je crois au salut de l'humanite, je crois en l'avenir du cyanure" (personal translation: I believe in the salvation of humanity, I believe in the future of cyanide). I personnally enjoyed this on every much. It was my first introduction to Cioran - I was looking for a short book to read in the subway - and I absolutely loved it. _Precis de decomposition_ is an important book to understand him. If my memory serves me right, it is also the first book he wrote in French. _La Tentation d'exister_ and _La Chute dnas le temps_ are also good. If you appreciate his nihilism and cynism, you will find some interesting pages there. _De l'inconvenient d'etre ne_ has some interesting parts where he expresses a certain disgust of life. I also like the way he is playing with words to create some very powerful images in these books. Currently, I am reading _Le Livre des leurres_. I am not sure if I should recommend this one. I am not enjoying too much. Maybe it is just because of the state of mind I am in or maybe I just don't feel like reading this book now. I don't know, I get the feeling it is missing something. The fact that this book is one his first books (1936) could be a reason: there is a gap between his first and later works. The discovery of Nietzsche is probably not unrelated to such a modification of his writtings. However, the first pages where he talks about the musical extasy are not so bad. Hope it helps and please feel to correct any mistake I made, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Good Rock Records Of '84 Date: 06 Oct 2000 01:09:48 +0100 Good Rock Records Of '84My question was meant to be rheorical - apologies for clogging up the list with lists again! Unless you were a lonely 15 year old living in England, the full horror of 1984 is not something you can easily comprehend. I spent most of my time listening to my Quicksilver Messenger Service albums whilst all around me was Culture Club. Those of you who read the NME around this time will remember articles that seriously suggested that the guitar was dead. They obviously weren't paying attention to what was happening in the States... But anyway. Tell the next person that says "but weren't the eighties great?" to actually try and remember how awful they really were. Musically, culturally and politically. And before I get flamed, remember that there may well have been good stuff out there (as mentioned on previous posts and not forgetting Zorn's output) but how easy was it to get hold of? Nothing like today. It amazes (and pleases) me how the 18-22 year olds on this list can have such an informed view of as wide a range of musics as we discuss. The information revolution in action! But hey! enough of my yakkin'... NP Spinal Tap - Hell Hole - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: RE: cool your jets, fogies Date: 06 Oct 2000 00:16:12 GMT >From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " >FWIW - Some of the funniest stuff I've seen on the list have been the - >I'll >call them matches - between Patrice + Bill A. > Indeed they were. And I'm glad they're over now so I don't have to sweat anymore. :-) And where's Siggy when I need him. NP: Oval, Diskont '94 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Mozart/ modern music (no zorn content)and typo. Date: 05 Oct 2000 20:20:57 EDT >Handy wrote 104 symphonies and Mozart wrote 41 but today most composers can't write the same kind of piece over and over again. I apologize for misspelling Haydn name. I let it go through my spell checker and didn't catch it but I'll assume some of you new who I was talking about. As far as W. C. Handy goes I'm not sure how many symphonies he wrote. Sorry, Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse Date: 06 Oct 2000 01:32:18 +0100 Maurice Rickard mentioned: >Have you heard the Corin Curschellas _Valdun: >Voices of Rumantsch_ record? Quine, Ribot, Greg Cohen, Ikue Mori, >Christian Marclay... I would have liked to have heard Quine on every >track, but there are some fine ones on there, notably "Violenza," "Al >Mar," "Da Not," "Crisa," and "Sainza Sön" (not all of which have >Quine on them). Sounds fascinating! Do you have any more information - label, date etc - so I can track it down? Cheers Alastair - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: recommended books (some actual Zorn content!) Date: 05 Oct 2000 17:44:10 -0700 If one can use the word 'enjoy,' I enjoyed Cioran's Anathemas and Admirations. ciao, Tosh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re: Last Well Date: 06 Oct 2000 01:11:38 -0000 > I don't mean to be rude, but this shows how much effort you put into understanding Laswell's work: none. Laswell's a bass player. Regardless of that, Laswell *is* giving a unique new twist to the material he reconstructs ... and in the case of the Miles Davis remixes, the point is obviously that there is no original version. Macero's version is just as valid as Laswell's one, as the original recordings feature endless studio jamming by the band which was then comprised by Macero into song-like structures. On IN A SILENT WAY, the first track > has the first 5 minutes or so repeated at the end of the track... so please don't tell us that Laswell spent five minutes doing his remixes and Macero worked months on them. If you're so sure that these remixes can be done with two turntables within such a short amount of time, then why don't you try it yourself? > Man, am I sick of this thread! And you may not be trying to be rude, but you sure are condescending! I've buying and selling Laswell music (i.e. supporting the artist) since his very first Material release in the early '80s. Sorry I ever mentioned an opposing opinion to all you Panthalassa lovin' dudes. Just 2 things and then I finished (thank Kerrist!), Laswell plays the bass guitar, i.e. it's a guitar with bass strings, not the bass violin, not bass vocals, and not very well I might add (technically speaking!), but hey I do love his playing, especially with Painkiller (there's our Zorn content!), Material, Massacre, and Last Exit. I know these remixes can be knocked off in a hour, because I've done them many times at the radio station where I used to do a weekly show. And without effects racks, etc. In fact, I had a pretty interesting one where Hendrix was jamming with Miles! Finally if you were interested in what someone can really accomplish using the studio as an instrument, you would be listening to Pierre Schaeffer, Pierre Henry, Iannis Xenakis, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Edgard Varese, Bernard Parmegiani, Phil Spector, Joe Meek, George Martin (not those Beatles again!), Norman Smith (ala Pink Floyd, Pretty Things), Lee Scratch Perry, Jack Ruby, Joe Gibbs, Mad Professor, Scientist, Adrian Sherwood, etc. So hey, ultimately I know it's just me, I listened to Laswell's reconstitutions when they came out, I went back to them when friends suggested I listen to them again, and you know what happened? I sat there listening, waiting for something to happen, anything, especially something I didn't get from the originals, and you know what, nothing happened, I got nothing, so I'm back listening to the originals and enjoying them as usual. I still hope that someday someone will do an interesting dub of Marley, and as for Miles, well his stuff was perfect first time around, i.e. the ORIGINAL records as the ARTIST had them released, so really what was the point? Is it any different than Kenny G. recording a duet with Loui _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse Date: 05 Oct 2000 21:20:32 -0400 Alastair-- Yup, got a copy right here. The info: Artist: Corin Curschellas Title: Valdun: Voices of Rumantsch Label: Musikszene Schweiz Copyright 1997 and 1996 Migros-Genossenschafts-Bund, Kultur und Soziales, CH-8031 Zurich. The official site: http://www.corin.ch/ and--hey!--distribution info: http://www.corin.ch/distribution.htm Best of luck...but don't be alarmed by the occasional yodel. (My wife, on hearing it, suggested that it should have carried a "Warning: contains yodeling" sticker.) -Maurice At 1:32 AM +0100 10/6/00, Alastair Wilson wrote: >Maurice Rickard mentioned: > >>Have you heard the Corin Curschellas _Valdun: >>Voices of Rumantsch_ record? Quine, Ribot, Greg Cohen, Ikue Mori, >>Christian Marclay... I would have liked to have heard Quine on every >>track, but there are some fine ones on there, notably "Violenza," "Al >>Mar," "Da Not," "Crisa," and "Sainza S=F6n" (not all of which have >>Quine on them). > >Sounds fascinating! Do you have any more information - label, date etc - so >I can track it down? > >Cheers >Alastair > > > > > >- -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Good Rock Records Of '84 Date: 05 Oct 2000 21:15:46 -0400 On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:09:48AM +0100, Alastair Wilson wrote: > But anyway. Tell the next person that says "but weren't the eighties great?" > to actually try and remember how awful they really were. Musically, > culturally and politically. Oh yeah? What about the bozos who did the 70s revivals? Why, in the seventies we had to haul disco records and Jefferson Starship 45s back and forth from the record store as we trudged in our goldfish- bearing platform shoes, the records trailing behind us in Partridge Family wheelbarrows tied to our waist-length hair while Richard Nixon speeches boomed from every AM radio. You whippersnappers have no *idea* how good you had it! -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: tangerine dream Date: 05 Oct 2000 22:04:09 EDT just got "Phaedra." mindboggling. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: tangerine dream Date: 05 Oct 2000 23:14:38 EDT In a message dated Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:05:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ObviousEye@aol.com writes: << just got "Phaedra." mindboggling. >> Ain't that so. Tis my favorite TD, with _Zeit_ close behind. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Taborn/Chadbourne Date: 05 Oct 2000 23:45:27 EDT I was booted offline,lost my posting and original email to what I was responding to. Anyway, Steve Smith was mentioning the"Blue Decco" cd by Maneri. There's great material and playing on that cd but Taborne is barely audible. He's really buried in the mix. You can barely hear even the solos. A really fine recent Maneri release is with Joe Morris "At The Old Office". Very dynamic music, really driving one minute and then there's some of their best more quieter moments that I've heard as well. The interest never flags. Lightcap and Cleaver contribute mightily also. Regarding Chadbourne: I think there's a new cd out on Avant with Dr. Chad , Joe Morris, Mark Dresser, and a drummer who's name I forgot. Anyone heard this? This sounds like a must have. Eugene wrote a lengthy article in the latest issue of Signal To Noise mag poking fun at some of the mags writers and critics. He likes the mag overall, but takes some of them to task for their sloppy, cliched, and lazy writing. He's very light hearted and humorous about it, but it rings true none the less. I'm glad STN printed it. Anyone read his "I Hate The Man Who Runs This Bar" book? I've only gotten through a little of it, but it reads like a survival guide for musicians. He swears all names and accounts are fictitious but they sound pretty real to me. John Threadgould(40 year old west coaster) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Philip Johnston's Transparent Quartet Date: 06 Oct 2000 13:05:57 +1000 > I heard him twice: first time with Transparent Quartet and second time > with reunited The Microscopic Septet. Both gigs were great and very > joyful. Though I cannot say that it was really creative music. It > sounds and feels good but don't expect something exciting in > compositions and arrangements. Just lots of fun stuff. > > Transparent Quartet is less energetic and theatrical I think but the > music is still good although it sounds like a music for a movie even > if it was not composed to it. Still interesting and relaxing. It's funny you should say that since from reading some of the pages of that website it looks like a large portion of his music was in fact written for films. Incidentally, I think his compositional style is very interesting and quite unique, even if sometimes the recordings seem to hold back a bit on the energy... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Chadbourne/Lovens Date: 06 Oct 2000 00:17:15 -0400 Someone asked about the Chadbourne/Lovens 2-CD on Leo. Sorry, but I apparently deleted the message, Anyway: It's just about all song material, not improv, with Eugene singing and playing guitar and Lovens accompanying on percussion. There's a bunch of standards and some originals. Also included are several celebrity impressions by Dr. Chadbourne and some curse-filled rants from actual celebrities, like Marlon Brando talking shit about Burt Reynolds. Needless to say, it's an odd record. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re:Uncle Bill's the Minute Maid Date: 06 Oct 2000 04:39:32 -0000 wrote: > . What makes you think I >haven't heard this stuff? >snipsnip >It's obvious... _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: cyro & trilok Date: 05 Oct 2000 21:50:33 -0700 first, could siggy and S~z go stand over there, ken and kurt and anybody else with a name starting with k, come over here. ok ok perfect. the rest of you don't be shy. just don't come too close. ah, so. Cyro Baptista has a top shelf CD called ViraLoucos. And he just came out with something with Kevin Breit, Supergenerous, that's not bad. You know, forgettable, but not bad. then i catch wind of something by Cyro called BEAT THE DONKEY. should i spend the cat food money on it or not? Now Trilok had a very nice outing called Uhfret or something like that (gremlins are rearranging my collection just now) and another, Crazy Saints I think it was called, you might still be able to find my copy down at Moby Discs on Beach Blvd. So I saw an ad for a new Trilok. Should I allow my acquisitiveness to get the better of me (down boy!)? np. charlie mariano -- bangalore (indian heff) nd. just a little jim beam nr. le grand tango (astor piazzolla bio) p.s. i've been enjoying the list since everyone starting drinking more these last few days. salud! how bouts a little party at the la knit one of these evenings? or before the lake-hopkins-cyrille gig in san diego on 10-14? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Friedrich Kapitzke" Subject: Re: Ringo/Beatles Date: 06 Oct 2000 08:44:16 +0200 Who could really describe that boaring drumming of Ringo to be genius ???--- would be the same to call Charlie Watts a perfect drummer,who never could keep the time The groups did nice Music but the drummers were the weakest part of it Friedrich ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:15 PM >Subject: RE: Ringo/Beatles > Just can't think of the Beatles as boring!!!!!!!!!! NEVER!!!!!! > > Greatest Band on Earth - call it *POP*, call it whatever you want. It's not > nostalgia (i'm 21). I won't say anything more about it. > > OASIS on the other hand ... :-) > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > > NP. RECOIL - liquid > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Last Well Date: 06 Oct 2000 07:35:57 GMT >From: "Tim Keenliside" >Man, am I sick of this thread! Me too. Don't start threads that you easily become sick of. >So hey, ultimately I know it's just me, I >listened to Laswell's reconstitutions when they came out, >I went back to them when friends suggested I listen to >them again, and you know what happened? I sat there >listening, waiting for something to happen, anything, >especially something I didn't get from the originals, and >you know what, nothing happened, I got nothing, so I'm >back listening to the originals and enjoying them as >usual. You're right it's just you and that's fine. The music didn't hit you, so you did something else and that's great. That's productive. When something doesn't interest or move you, you simply move on into some more interesting and exciting territory for yourself. It's a lot smarter than presumptuously trying to lecture those who cathect differently about their taste. Telling them they're wasting their aural lives and turning yourself into the butt of their jokes, so to speak. >I still hope that someday someone will do an >interesting dub of Marley, and as for Miles, well his >stuff was perfect first time around, i.e. the ORIGINAL >records as the ARTIST had them released, so really what >was the point? It was just an interpretation through ambient music, a recent obsession of the mixer and one of the more accursed forms of the avant folks. Yes the originals are great when they've been digitally remastered but they themselves are but interpretations too--Teo and his tape splicer, Columbia's businessman. How much control did Miles actually wield at Columbia anyway? >Is it any different than Kenny G. recording >a duet with Loui I'd say it's a lot different, but since you claim to be able to read other people's aural histories without knowing them via their musical tastes, then I suspect there's no use in trying to convince you otherwise. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: recommended books (some actual Zorn content!) Date: 06 Oct 2000 11:06:46 +0200 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > Zorn provides a list of books without commentary: Artaud's Oeuvres > Compl=E8tes, volume XXV; caleb, thanks a lot for posting that list! very informative; some interesting st= uff on it. (especially the encrypted messages thing in berg's work...) now that we're talking books again, let me mention a few that i've read recently: william duckworth: talking music have only read zorn's interview in this book; thought it was quite good a= nd interesting. claude samuel: conversations with olivier messiaen have only read a few of the interviews so far, but they're all interestin= g. the only thing that really gets on my tits is messiaen's constant referen= ce to the roman catholic faith. for all you german speaking/reading people on the list, i'd like to point= out the german publishing company edition text und kritik and their series musik-konzepte. they have some very interesting books out about the likes= of var=E8se, feldman, webern, berg, schoenberg, nono, xenakis, etc. etc. (fi= nd out more from their website: http://www.etk-muenchen.de/) donald richie: public people, private people - portraits of some japanese some very informative and interesting articles about japanese people; fam= ous and non-famous. w. r. van gulik: irezumi - the pattern of dermatography in japan this is quite definitely the best and most in-depth book ever written in english about japanese tattooing, its development, its background and its history. it is out of print, but copies can be found through bookfinder.com. michael mccabe: new york city tattoo, the oral history of an urban art interviews with old-time tattoo artists from ny. interesting, plus a few = nice anecdotes. patRice np: iron maiden, live after death nr: uwe schmitt, tokyo tango / hadland, myths and legends of japan nd: water - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Francisco Lopez Date: 06 Oct 2000 05:26:22 -0400 At 06:28 PM 10/5/00 -0400, Brian Olewnick wrote: >Consistent with my usual habit of taking a few years to at last getting >around to hearing someone, I finally picked up a disc by Francisco >Lopez, his 'Untitled #89' on Touch (fortuitously thrust into my hands by >Tom Pratt at OM). I like it a great deal--kind of like being in the >center of a turbine engine for forty minutes, though the final 18 or so >minutes of silence seems...extreme (or is it silence?; have to listen >again more closely). Anyway, I'd appreciate hearing other Lopez >recommendations. Thanks. I don't know untitled 89, but I think you have to me somewhat choosy with Lopez, as some of his disks are nearly silent for the duration, and at least at my house, there's enough ambient noise for the disk to get completely lost. His earlier work is loosely based on real environmental recordings, and you can't go wrong with La Selva (V2-Archief), based on rain forest recordings in the Costa Rican jungle. This may sound like a straight nature recording, like we used to get in the Environments series, but it's pretty amazing nonetheless, and definitely has an episodic quality as it moves through the piece. There are extensive liner notes which Lopez challenges you not to read (and I haven't yet), but which supposedly explain a lot about the compositional methods of the piece. Belle Confusion 969 (Sonoris) is also based on jungle recordings, is very nice too, but doesn't have the same elaborate packaging. If you can track down the two-cd set Temizlemek (Linea Alternativa), it collects pieces previously released on compilations, showing the transition from his earliest drone pieces through the jungle works and up to a couple in the untitled series. His two trente oiseaux releases, Warsawa Restaurant and Belle Confusion 966, are as quiet as I'd like to get with him, although BC966 includes a live excerpt of the piece that roars (the disk would be great sleep music otherwise). -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: Francisco Lopez Date: 06 Oct 2000 11:34:38 GMT+0100 His latest release on Mego, 'untitled #92', is certainly worth checking out. And I totally agree with Caleb's recommendation of 'La Selva' & ' Belle Confusion 969'. Jeroen ps. In Augusts Wire there is a nice interview with him. Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: list demographics/ violin Date: 06 Oct 2000 12:03:16 +0200 Thanks for the recs, Steve. I think I'll head first for this duo album on No More Records, as I already know quite well his work with larger groups (his own Hat albums, or with Papa Joe, Joe Morris, Guillermo Gregorio). And furthermore No More Records is a new label on my list so I have to check it out. .... anyway, the samples I heard from "soul search" sounded also great... and there's also that trio album where they do two "Tone Dialing" covers.. hmmm... sounds like I'll have to set up a monthly planning for my next CD buys... All the best, Pascal. (np: Susie Ibarra, "Flower After Flower" - Tzadik) >Steve: >Mat and Randy have a duo CD out on the No More label, 'Light Trigger.' > >Other recent Maneri: 'Soul Search' (AUM Fidelity) - duets with Joe Morris, >and 'Blue Decco' (Thirsty Ear) - quartet with Craig Taborn, William Parker >and Gerald Cleaver. All should be readily available through the usual web >sources. > >Steve Smith >ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: list demographics/ violin Date: 06 Oct 2000 12:03:24 +0200 Thanks for the recs, Steve. I think I'll head first for this duo album on No More Records, as I already know quite well his work with larger groups (his own Hat albums, or with Papa Joe, Joe Morris, Guillermo Gregorio). And furthermore No More Records is a new label on my list so I have to check it out. .... anyway, the samples I heard from "soul search" sounded also great... and there's also that trio album where they do two "Tone Dialing" covers.. hmmm... sounds like I'll have to set up a monthly planning for my next CD buys... All the best, Pascal. (np: Susie Ibarra, "Flower After Flower" - Tzadik) >Steve: >Mat and Randy have a duo CD out on the No More label, 'Light Trigger.' > >Other recent Maneri: 'Soul Search' (AUM Fidelity) - duets with Joe Morris, >and 'Blue Decco' (Thirsty Ear) - quartet with Craig Taborn, William Parker >and Gerald Cleaver. All should be readily available through the usual web >sources. > >Steve Smith >ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: simon hopkins Subject: various Date: 06 Oct 2000 12:34:15 +0100 I haven't posted for a while, so apologies for the scattered nature of what follows... First up, on that drummers thread... Myself, Dan and David from the motion team down to see the Douglas gig in London this week, and the revelation of the evening was Jim Black. I haven't been so captivated by a drummer since seeing Joey Baron for the first time back in 88. If any of you ever get the opportunity to go see him, whatever the context: do it. (The rest of the evening was great, too. Douglas in particular, being the focus of the evening and leading different line-ups, played for his fucking life.) Also on the drummers thread - and apologies if someone's already said this, but I missed some of the Ringo thread as it turned into a discussion about the cultural value of pop music (read: fell asleep!), but I was reminded the other evening that when asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world, Lennon responded that he wasn't even the best drummer in The Beatles. Thanks to Alistair Wilson for his kind comments about the 4wd Motion event we put on here at motion's disused east London factory. I take on board the comments about people talking during the performances. It's a difficult one that, and we're discussing what to do about it. We're also already discussing the line-up for the next event and are hoping to take it in a jazz/improvisation direction alongside the electronic and post-rock stuff. I didn't see anything here about any of the recent Mr Bungle shows. Anyone make it? We went down to the London Astoria show, and I think I'm safe in saying that it was the single best rock n roll show I've ever been to. (Actually, it's been an extraordinary year for live shows, period. But I guess we'll all be doing round ups in a couple of months). The night was made even more special by the continual sight out of the corner of my eye of the forty-something Paul Schutze pogo-ing, moshing and shouting for 90 minutes. Paul couldn't speak the next day. (Apologies to any forty-something listmembers for the implication that pogo-ing is a little unseemly at their age. But really, it is.) Last up: the new Radiohead album. Astonishing. Better than we had any right to expect. If you interested, I have something to about it (and you can hear some of it) at: http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/700.html Over and out Simon np: Bruno Ganz: Wenn Wasser Ware (ECM) -- simon hopkins a state51 | 8-10 rhoda street | london e2 7ef e simon@state51.co.uk t 020 7729 8493 check out ---+motion http://motion.state51.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Laswell reconstructions Date: 06 Oct 2000 14:27:47 +0100 Re: Laswell I'm not sure how seriously I should reply to what you wrote since you seem not to listen anyway ... in fact, you avoided to reply to any of the points I and other list members made--i.e., that Macero's stuff was just a version as well, that Macero's version is very crudely edited etc. > Man, am I sick of this thread! You started it. I'm pretty amazed at how important Laswell seems to be to you since you spend so much time dissing him. I usually ignore things which I dislike, that's why you almost never find me ranting about Britney Spears. > And you may not be trying to be rude, but you sure are > condescending! Sorry, but who told us not to waste our time? Are you in any way wiser than us, do you really want to pretend that you have all the (musical) knowledge in the world, while we are just blinded by silly restrictions like taste? > Sorry I ever mentioned an opposing opinion to all you > Panthalassa lovin' dudes. I don't care if you have a different opinion than me. Actually, I do care because I'm always interested to hear other people's opinion. But what I can't stand is when people tell me that I shouldn't listen to what I listen to. And in your "discussion", you never really adressed those points we made. > jamming with Miles! Finally if you were interested in what > someone can really accomplish using the studio as an > instrument, you would be listening to Pierre Schaeffer, > Pierre Henry, Iannis Xenakis, Karlheinz Stockhausen, > Edgard Varese, Bernard Parmegiani, Phil Spector, Joe Meek, > George Martin (not those Beatles again!), Norman Smith > (ala Pink Floyd, Pretty Things), Lee Scratch Perry, Jack > Ruby, Joe Gibbs, Mad Professor, Scientist, Adrian > Sherwood, etc. Whoa, please don't pretend you know me. It's like all those people who think that because I listen to jazz I don't listen to any "normal" music, or those people who think that because I like metal I don't like any soft music, etc. -- now who's condescending? I'm not going to defend myself by saying "oh, I listened to this record by Karlheinz and that record by Varese", but you'd be surprised how many of these artists can actually be found in my collection. Regardless of that, what does that have to do with the Laswell discussion?? > stuff was perfect first time around, i.e. the ORIGINAL > records as the ARTIST had them released, so really what How many times do we have to point out that there is no original? The fact that these records were released under Miles' names while Miles was still alive doesn't have to imply that he was absolutely happy with how they were mixed & edited. Unfortunately, record companies almost always have other ideas what they'd like to hear on their records than the artists. Kind regards, - Chris. P.S. Glad to see that there are other Maiden fans on the list! NP: VAST, Music for People (2000) ___________________________________________________________________ ** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de ** ** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil ** Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn The Herbie Hancock Mailing List ___________________________________________________________________ "When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re[2]: Philip Johnston's Transparent Quartet Date: 06 Oct 2000 10:11:20 -0400 Hello Julian, Thursday, October 05, 2000, you wrote to me: >> Transparent Quartet is less energetic and theatrical I think but the >> music is still good although it sounds like a music for a movie even >> if it was not composed to it. Still interesting and relaxing. J> It's funny you should say that since from reading some of the pages of that J> website it looks like a large portion of his music was in fact written for J> films. I explained it wrong probably. I meant that Johnston is writing lots of music for films, but even compositions which were not written for them sound like it is films' music. J> Incidentally, I think his compositional style is very interesting and J> quite unique, even if sometimes the recordings seem to hold back a bit on J> the energy... Yep, I think the same. -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: cyro Date: 06 Oct 2000 17:08:09 +0200 (DST) Martin_Wisckol: <> So is the BEAT THE DONKEY record out? I saw the show last year and I was amazaed. Exclusively percussion music, all different kinds of percussion/drums/buckets/barrels. But also A LOT of show, dancing, actually I was pretty amazed. I don't know how the music on it's own would sound though. manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jay Solanki Subject: Frederic Rzewski recomendations Date: 06 Oct 2000 12:04:18 -0400 Hi All I have no idea what connection, if any, this composer may have to Zorn, but I figured somebody on this list could probably help me. Last week I saw a performance of Rzewski's 'Coming Together' and was very impressed--does anybody know where I could find a recording of this piece or anything related...just more information on the guy and his music...I was particularly interested by the combination of avant-garde musical sensibilities and political conscience. thanks... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" Subject: Rzewski in NYC / Gig guides Date: 06 Oct 2000 12:27:15 -0400 Hi Someone mentioned a Rzewski performance they saw (sorry, deleted the message). Just wanted to note that he's playing next week in NYC... http://www.composerscollab.org/upcoming_events/upcoming.html In terms of sites with gig/frestival listings, I usually check out www.jazznewyork.org - it lists some notable gigs on the east coast and the occasional festival (including international). If anyone knows of sites with more comprehensive listings, I'd be interested. Pardon the NYCentric info J - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Carlos Murat" Subject: Re: Frederic Rzewski recomendations Date: 06 Oct 2000 14:39:11 -0300 Rzewski played this week in Buenos Aires. He made this program: Les Litanies d´Icare (Henri Pousseur) We sing for the future (Cornelius Cardew) The Road, Mile 41 ( Rzewski) De Profundis Everyone on that performance where moved by Frederic playing. De Profundis has some vocals extracts from a letter by Oscar Wilde. The Cardew piece was terrific!! Here are some of Rzewski recordings: The People United (Hat Art 6066) North American Ballads (Hat Art 6089) De Profundis (Hat Art 6134) Coming Together with Hungaroton and Opus One is on the Record Label CRI. Anyway there are anothers versions of Rzewski work by other artists: Stephen Drury - The People United - (New Albion) Ursula Oppens - The People United - (Vanguard) Zeitgeist - Wails/Spots/Crusoe - (OO records) Carlos ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 1:04 PM > Hi All > > I have no idea what connection, if any, this composer may have to Zorn, but > I figured somebody on this list could probably help me. Last week I saw a > performance of Rzewski's 'Coming Together' and was very impressed--does > anybody know where I could find a recording of this piece or anything > related...just more information on the guy and his music...I was > particularly interested by the combination of avant-garde musical > sensibilities and political conscience. > > thanks... > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: newie/feldman Date: 06 Oct 2000 20:24:10 CEST Hi! I`m new on the list, so here`s my story: I am: 19 years of age. from Oslo, Norway. currently studying music. Now for something completely different: Could someone reccomend me something by Morton Feldman? I haven`t heard much of his stuff, but the few pieces I`ve heard are amazing. -Marius _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: Ekkehard Jost: Europas Jazz 1960-1980 Date: 06 Oct 2000 14:41:39 EDT I was wondering if any of you know anything about a book by Ekkehard Jost entitled _Europas Jazz 1960-1980_ published in 1987? I was told it's one of the best accounts of recent jazz on the continent. Oh yeah, and it's out-of-print too, So if any of ya have leads/ideas about acquiring a copy could you get in touch privately? Thanks a million. Jerry B. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Gunning" Subject: Re: newie/feldman Date: 06 Oct 2000 13:54:38 -0500 > Could someone reccomend me something by Morton Feldman? I haven`t heard much > of his stuff, but the few pieces I`ve heard are amazing. My favorites are probably "Crippled Symmetry" for flute/bass flute, piano/celeste, and percussion; "For Phillip Guston" same instruments; "For Samuel Beckett" - a larger ensemble including strings and woodwinds. Crippled Symmetry is 2 CDs, Phillip Guston is 4, Beckett is only one, a mere hour. The Piano and String Quartet is very nice as well, also just a single CD Or you could just start with Rothko Chapel, seems to be his most well known work. dg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: newie/feldman Date: 06 Oct 2000 13:33:10 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Marius Ergo > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 1:24 PM > Could someone reccomend me something by Morton Feldman? Almost everything he has done is excellent, but his work in "Young Frankenstein" is sheer genius. All he has to do is stand there, and the audience is already laughing. Oh wait a minute... All kidding aside, "Rothko Chapel" and "Piano and String Quartet" are great first purchases. And I really like "For John Cage" as well. Later, Ben np: sleep, "jerusalem" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: drummers Date: 02 Oct 2000 15:03:36 EDT skip heller wrote: <> For what it's worth, I understand kenny aronoff, johnny cougar mellancamps longtime drummer has done technical analyses of Ringo's drumming in Modern Drummer magazine on more than one occasion. jb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Resonance (actual Zorn content) Date: 04 Oct 2000 21:22:36 EDT the new issue of Resonance is out this week. it's a special double issue commemorating the 25th anniversary of the LMC, including a double CD of previously unissued archive material, including a Zorn/David Toop track. more info at: www.l-m-c.org.uk/resonance/vol.8.2.html Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: cool your jets, fogies Date: 06 Oct 2000 08:59:40 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > meanwhile, i'm now reading celine and spent last night and this morning which one? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Ladew Subject: re: again, I disagree Date: 06 Oct 2000 17:53:46 -0400 Kurt: I blurted out the Denardo thing, but I didn't really mean it as a huge slam, more to get some discussion going on about it. His playing is definitely inspired and "in the right place" so to speak. It was just that at the time I was thinking about this drumming thread, everybody was naming all the "supergods" so to speak, and for some reason, the 12 year old Denardo popped into my head. Not a fair comparison whatsoever. I just mentioned it for fun and difference NP:Kid A (still Radiohead, although I did dig out the Empty Foxhole..I'll listen to it next.) NR: Hiphop america , Nelson George > Subject: again i disagree (perpetual drummer thread) > > who was it that said > Perhaps Denardo Coleman (Empty Foxhole -Blue Note) > though, I really like that album anyway...... (?) > > empty foxhole is one of my fave ornette albums, if only because it stands > out so > much from the oovre. there's a genius naivete, a sorta savant quality to it, > wide-eyed discovery feeling due to 12-year-old or so denardo's playing as > well > as ornette's first session on violin (trumpet as well? somebody help me.). > but i > don't mean to say it's a novelty record. it's a strong record, propelled by > a > competent and innovative drummer. so there. > > not sure how far beyond this prodigy status denardo propelled, however. i'll > acccept that apparently he's a genius engineer or something, but he > continues to > be a good-only, not that provocative drummer today. i guess. > > kg > np: ma/meyer/o'connor - appalachian journey > -- Rich Ladew: ladewtangclan@earthlink.net www.home.earthlink.net/~ladewtangclan PCP House Of Coffee: The best in modern, experimental and creative music WUNH 91.3fm Monday evenings 8-9 p.m.(EST) Real Audio at www.wunh.unh.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Re: Francisco Lopez Date: 06 Oct 2000 18:09:21 EDT Don't necessarily heed to that "it's all silence" response. People like Lopez and Bernhard Gunter are much more sensual composers than someone who "just made silence". It's not silence for silence's sake, it's part of the composition, and their compositions include a considerable amount of subtlety and thought that is not apparent in a lot of music these days. However, Caleb brings up an interesting point, most of the time my house isn't quiet enough for me to listen to those artists. My toilet will start making sounds or the bugs outside will make too much noise. I really wonder how people who work in the same field as Gunter expect you to block out all of the distractions. from, matt http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Francisco Lopez Date: 06 Oct 2000 18:33:26 -0400 Orangejazz@aol.com wrote: > > Don't necessarily heed to that "it's all silence" response. People like > Lopez and Bernhard Gunter are much more sensual composers than someone who > "just made silence". It's not silence for silence's sake, it's part of the > composition, and their compositions include a considerable amount of subtlety > and thought that is not apparent in a lot of music these days. However, Caleb > brings up an interesting point, most of the time my house isn't quiet enough > for me to listen to those artists. My toilet will start making sounds or the > bugs outside will make too much noise. I really wonder how people who work in > the same field as Gunter expect you to block out all of the distractions. I think I've mentioned this before, but though I tend to try and listen to "quiet" composers late at night, the fact that I'm in a NYC apartment always necessitates a certain amount of ambient noise. The fascinating thing is when I'm unable to determine whether the noise is ambient or from the disc. When I first played the Gunter/Duncan disc, "Home, Unspeakable", I distinctly remember my shock upon realizing that sounds I assumed to be ambient all of a sudden ended when the disc stopped. Brian Olewnick NP: Cornelius Cardew - The Great Learning (Superb!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Great norwegian music(No Zorn content.... naturally) Date: 07 Oct 2000 01:54:31 CEST Everyone should check out www.runegrammofon.com! It`s an amazing norwegian label, with tons of even more amazing music. I`m not here to preach the gospel of norwegian experimental music, but check out the audio-clips and tell me what you think. Nils Aukland`s "Straum" is great, and Supersilent`s "4" is probably my favourite record of all time. Check it out! -Marius _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Frederic Rzewski recomendations Date: 06 Oct 2000 19:58:00 -0400 Some Rzewski releases: Coming Together/Attica/Les Moulons de Panurge (Opus One) Only available on vinyl, AFAIK. Wonderful recording from 1973. I've seen CT performed a couple of times, but the speaker's passion is key and neither of the performances measured up to Steven ben Israel's work here; the man positively trembles with conviction. 'Attica' is a beautiful, ultimately chilling piece where a single spoken line is additively pieced out word by word. 'Les Moutons...' is a lovely gamelan/minimalist number. Performers include Karl Berger, Alvin Curran, Garrett List and Jon Gibson. Needs to be issued to disc. No Place to Go but Around (Finnadar). A fantastic solo piano recording of one of Rzewski's best (though underperformed) pieces, something of a predecessor to 'The People United...'. (It is being performed next weekend in NYC by another pianist whose name escapes me). Also includes pieces by Braxton and Hans Eisler. Again, I don't believe this has been issued on disc. The People United...Well, the hat ART recording by Rzewski himself (now, very unfortunately, out of print) is possibly my single favorite release ever, so I'm a bit prejudiced but....what a beautiful composition! Can't say enough about it. Our own Steven Drury has recorded, imho, the next best version which is very great in and of itself (on New Albion), surpassing, I think, Ursula Oppens' original Vanguard recording. There are also at least two or three other versions, including one by the wonderful Aki Takahashi, that I've yet to hear. Song and Dance--(Nonesuch, 1979) is an unusual piece, scored for flute, clarinet/bass clarinet, contrabass and vibraphone. Very jazzy, plenty of echoes of Dolphy and altogether enjoyable. On the vinyl issue, it shares an album with a pretty nice John Harbison composition, "The Flower-Fed Buffaloes". Four Pieces/Ballad No. 3 (Vanguard, 1980) Solo Rzewski again, performing post TPUWNBD pieces that begin to venture back into somewhat more abstract territory while retaining his core romanticism. Ballad No. 3 is one of his "Four North American Ballads", this one based on the song "Which Side Are You On?", about which see more below. Four North American Ballads - originally recorded by Paul Jacobs on a 1980 Nonesuch album (also containing nice work by Bolcom and Copland), these are spectacularly beautiful compositions, all based on older American themes generally associated with the labor movement. Again, for my money the finest renditions are by Rzewski himself on the hat ART recording "Four North American Ballads/Squares" but this is also out of print. The final ballad, "Winnsboro Cotton Mill Blues" is an incredible tour de force and has been recorded several times by other pianists. Antigone-Legend (CRI, 1987). With this recording, for soprano and piano, Rzewski made a decided shift back to more atonal, angular writing. It's fairly severe and the vocal writing is a bit declamatory for my taste but it retains some dramatic power. Bumps (Newport Classic, 1995) includes three compositions, "Bumps", "Andante con Moto" and "The Turtle and the Crane". The title piece is dedicated to Steve Lacy and uses Lacy-like short phrases in an elaborate pattern to construct a whole. The Andante is a sequence of variations on a theme by Beethoven, both romantic and humorous. De Profundis (hat NOW, 1993) is a powerful work for speaking pianist (Rzewski), using jail-written text by Oscar Wilde. Anthony de Mare, who has also recorded the piece, gave one of the most moving performances I've ever seen on this at The Kitchen a few years back. This recording also includes Rzewski's lovely 'Sonata'. A Decade (OO Discs, 1994) is a recording by the ensemble Zeitgeist of four pices, "Wails", "Spots", "The Lost Melody" and "Crusoe". I'm blanking on details from this--have to listen again! New Works (Music & Arts, 1997) includes the beginning of his ongoing composition, "The Road" (I think he's up to around Part 41 these days), a lovely, loose wandering piece; "Whangdoodles", an appropriately wacky number performed by the Abel-Steinberg-Winant trio; and "To the Earth", an extremely beautiful work for a percussionist playing flower pots and reciting Homer (!). Night Crossing (Music & Arts, 1997) is, I think, his most recent release. Teamed with Ursula Oppens on the title track and on a two-piano rendition of "Winnsboro Cotton Mill Blues"--very strong. Also includes his finely etched book of preludes, which he calls "Ludes". There, that's the sum total of my Rzewski knowledge, meager though it is. I'd only add that, in addition to being an extraordinary composer, he's possibly the most jaw-droppingly astonishing pianist this side of Cecil Taylor. Check him out. Brian Olewnick NP: Yankee/Oakland pre-game! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: week of small miracles Date: 07 Oct 2000 06:48:49 +0200 anyone interested in this music/sound experiment field should try to get the new cd by (?) Peter Cusack which is part of a project dedicated to an interestin area of London, out of Tottenham, the Lea River Valley. It's full of great sounds, interviews, and a bit of playing/playback that includes a tape of Thurston Moore played under a train arch. I can't stop listen to it, it's really a great aural experience, slightly melancholy and wet. more info at www.smallmiracles.org.uk or www.l-m-c.org.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Mingus Slays Marxist Date: 06 Oct 2000 09:45:50 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > Don't die Kurt! If you wait till 2002 to die, you can > hear Yeah. Kurt, DO NOT DIE :-) > Miles Davis Juan Le Pins Sessions (Columbia) 2 CDs - > 2002 What is that? > - July 1969 concerts with Shorter, Corea, Holland, and > DeJohnette. The second concert is unissued. and where is the first one issued? And what about the plans to release the full versions of at filmore west? > Miles Davis Tribute To Jack Johnson Sessions > (Columbia) box set - 200x Will it include only the JJ sessions, or something more in the post- bitchec brew period? I think there should be tons of material left, as many MD albums from the 70s were hardly released. Are there any plans for releasing the filles de killimanjaro - in a silent way - etc boxed set (the period between the quintet and BB)? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Re[2]: violin,Feldman and Vandermark, Age Date: 06 Oct 2000 09:46:04 +0200 > Does anyone know OPEN LAND by John Abercrombie? I just know one track > from a promo cd. Could i get some abercrombie - recommendation from you all zlisters? Thanks, Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: newie/feldman Date: 07 Oct 2000 00:51:34 -0700 Marius Ergo wrote: > > Could someone reccomend me something by Morton Feldman? I haven`t heard much > of his stuff, but the few pieces I`ve heard are amazing. For starters, I'd go with _For Samuel Beckett_, which does the most characteristic Feldmanesque things with dynamics, rhythm and repetition, but with a larger ensemble ... I dunno, for me the flute's not my favorite instrument so there're things to "get over" on the way to appreciating some of his central works (yes, I know, it's a personal failing; we all have a couple). I have a particular warm spot for the SF Contemporary Players recording on Newport. Not what I'd recommend as an intro because of the price, but I am devastated by the John Tilbury recordings of the (nearly-) complete piano music, a 4-cd box on LondonHALL; Tilbury is so far inside the later works (esp. _Bunita Marcus_) that it's not as if he's playing them so much as he's breathing them (or, even, *emanating* them). -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: Re: Francisco Lopez Date: 07 Oct 2000 10:33:05 +0200 (CEST) >From: Brian Olewnick > >Consistent with my usual habit of taking a few years to at last getting >around to hearing someone, I finally picked up a disc by Francisco >Lopez, his 'Untitled #89' on Touch (fortuitously thrust into my hands by >Tom Pratt at OM). I like it a great deal--kind of like being in the >center of a turbine engine for forty minutes, though the final 18 or so >minutes of silence seems...extreme (or is it silence?; have to listen >again more closely). Anyway, I'd appreciate hearing other Lopez >recommendations. Thanks. > >Brian Olewnick > I don't know Lopez very well. I know he had recorded in forests (Costa Rica, V2 label in Holland). He has made records on different labels: Trente Oiseaux, Staalplaat, Sonoris, Table of elements. You can buy them on mail order list Metamkine (very comprehensive) : http://metamkine.free.fr/ BTW, maybe in the same kind of music, I recently listened to something I like very much : "White-yellow-black" by Rolf JULIUS. He records animals outside and adds some electronic treatment. He made 3 CDs on his own label : Small Music (He is german). Available on Metamkine too. Jacques Oger np : Marginal Consort/Collective improvisation (PSF Records) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: instruments(not liking them) Date: 07 Oct 2000 12:49:33 CEST Jim Flannery wrote: >I dunno, for me the flute's not my favorite >instrument so there're things to "get over" on the way to appreciating some >of >his central works (yes, I know, it's a personal failing; we all have a >couple). Yes, I know exactly what you mean! Not that I don`t like the flute, I love it, but I`ve always reaaaally HATED the friggin pan flute. I think this is because of all the released double CD-sets with what`s-his-face-old failed-musician playing "I Will Always Love You"- You know, so called "Pan Pipe Moods" Total elevator muzak! Anyway, I`ve found recently that maybe my prejudice towards this instrument is a bit .....um prejudgemental(duh). Not long ago, I had the privelege to attend a course by four Bolivian musicians. It was a real basic "this is our music" kind of workshop, but man, these guys could play those awful instruments. They even played some Morricone. It made me want to find out more about the instrument. I have friends who hate the clarinet and the trombone, but that`s probably just `cause those instruments are "uncool". -Marius _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Feger Subject: Goran Bregovic again / Re: List demographics Date: 07 Oct 2000 12:52:18 +0200 Some weeks ago there were some posts on Goran Bregovic. I'm gonna work with him from november through january at Thalia Theater in Hamburg, so if there's anything anyone wants me to ask him... My demographics: 32, male (and, FWIW, back at like basic black jeans and white T-shirts since I realized how an overly dramatic outfit takes everyone's mind off my interesting and expressive face, not to speak of my truly inspired playing). By the way, nice to hear from Tom Pratt; I've been wondering where he's gone. Fritz. np: Richard Galliano & i solisti dell'orchestra della Toscana: passatori (beautiful) nr: Michel Houellebecq: Elementarteilchen (frustrating) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: week of small miracles Date: 07 Oct 2000 07:52:51 -0400 At 06:48 AM 10/7/00 +0200, Francesco Martinelli wrote: >anyone interested in this music/sound experiment field should try to get the >new cd by (?) Peter Cusack Is this the same artist that has a new cd on ReR, Where is the Green Parrot? Anyone heard this and care to comment? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Great norwegian music(No Zorn content.... naturally) Date: 07 Oct 2000 13:55:35 +0200 Hi all, I'll second Marius, Rune Grammofon is really worth checking out, and furthermore they're well distributed and easily found (at least here in Europe), thanks to Manfred Eicher of ECM records. The catalogue ranges from (modern) classical music to electronic, via pop/rock, noise, electro-jazz.= =20 BTW, a few concerts of Rune Grammofon artists are planned next month in Europe (Paris, London), so see their website. And, yes Supersilent's "4" is indeed a great album ("4.3" is a must for me -audio sample #3-). Their jazz/electronic mix is far, far away from all the Graham Haynes/Niels Petter Molvaer things you may have heard before. And all that without a drum loop or a computer.=20 It sounds to my ears that it is a trumpet/drums/electronics band, but does any of you have more info on the set-up, who are the musicians, their background, etc...., as the liner notes are voluntarily inexistant. I was actually wondering if I would at last order Supersilent's previous 3CD set, "Supersilent 1-3"... has anyone heard it ? Is it as good as "Supersilent 4" and worth the money ? Thanks, Pascal. (np: Peter Br=F6tzmann/Die Like a Dog 4tet "Little Birds Have Fast Hearts No. 2" -FMP-) At 01:54 07/10/00 CEST, Marius Ergo wrote: >Everyone should check out www.runegrammofon.com! It`s an amazing norwegian= =20 >label, with tons of even more amazing music. I`m not here to preach the=20 >gospel of norwegian experimental music, but check out the audio-clips and= =20 >tell me what you think. Nils Aukland`s "Straum" is great, and Supersilent`s= =20 >"4" is probably my favourite record of all time. Check it out! > >-Marius - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: instruments(not liking them) Date: 07 Oct 2000 14:06:36 +0200 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Marius Ergo Aan: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Datum: zaterdag 7 oktober 2000 12:50 Onderwerp: instruments(not liking them) > > >Jim Flannery wrote: > >>I dunno, for me the flute's not my favorite >>instrument so there're things to "get over" on the way to appreciating some >>of >>his central works (yes, I know, it's a personal failing; we all have a >>couple). > >Yes, I know exactly what you mean! Not that I don`t like the flute, I love >it, but I`ve always reaaaally HATED the friggin pan flute. . >I have friends who hate the clarinet and the trombone, but that`s probably >just `cause those instruments are "uncool". > >-Marius I believe it's stupid to hate any instrument. Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Great norwegian music(No Zorn content.... naturally) Date: 07 Oct 2000 14:38:37 +0200 For more info, on the Rune Grammofon label, you can also give a look to the Rune Grammofon page of the forcedexposure website (easy URL). Here is what they say of Supersilent "4" (I found here anwers to some of my questions): "Explosive, mind-battering second album by Norwegian group. "This quartet has quickly developed into being the most exciting group in what many will call the new wave of young Norwegian jazz. Still in their twenties, they have all been involved in numerous groups and projects, ranging from Terje Rypdal Skywards (St=E5le Storl=F8kken) to rock group Motorpsycho (Helge Sten= ). Arve Henriksen and Jarle Vespestad are considered two of the most personal instrumentalists in Norway, the former receiving due attention for his playing on Christian Wallumr=F8d Trios No Birch, released on ECM. Helge Sten (aka Deathprod) is an in demand producer, and recently grabbed a lot of attention for his reworking of Arne Nordheims electronic music. With total improvisation in a 'traditional' band format they stress the importance of realtime interaction, playing together and against each other. Although they can sound very electronic, there=B4s not a computer or drumloop in sigh= t and they will frequently slip into stretches that are much closer to something like Autechre than what is normally considered as 'jazz'. On 4 they appear more focused and to the point than on their 3 hour debut set and deliver an absolutely stunning album of improvised 'jazz', electronica, power and lyrical beauty." The group consists of: Helge Sten: Audio virus, St=E5le Storl=F8kken: synthesizers, Arve Henriksen: trumpet, electronics, Ja= rle Vespestad: drums. "While their sound has the added depth of modern recording techniques and digitized, one touch electronica, their improvisations have the ramshackle DIY qualitites found in early live electronics projects by pioneers such as Gordon Mumma, Robert Ashley and Musica Elettronica Viva." -- The Wire. " I would add that (if I remember well) Jarle Vespestad (dms) also appears to be drummer on the last Farmers Market album on W&W... (the "funnest" album of the year, some said...) Pascal. At 13:55 07/10/00 +0200, you wrote: >Hi all, >I'll second Marius, Rune Grammofon is really worth checking out..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: Great norwegian music(No Zorn content.... naturally) Date: 07 Oct 2000 14:46:52 CEST Pascal Cortes wrote: >It sounds to my ears that it is a trumpet/drums/electronics band, but does >any of you have more info on the set-up, who are the musicians, their >background, etc...., as the liner notes are voluntarily inexistant. >I was actually wondering if I would at last order Supersilent's previous >3CD set, "Supersilent 1-3"... has anyone heard it ? Is it as good as >"Supersilent 4" and worth the money ? The lineup of Supersilent is: Jarle Vespestad - drums/perc Arve Henriksen - trumpet Deathprod(Helge Steen) - electronics, noise etc. Ståle Storløkken - Keys (Mostly moogs, and old analogue synths) I don`t own "1-3", but I`ve listened to it in a record store in Oslo, and it is amazing. Naturally, it is the supersilent sound, but since there`s so much material, it is really varied in dynamics and moods. It`s mostly relatively long improv pieces, but they are certainly not boring. The album is on my must-have list, but my current economy forces me to put this purchase on hold(Since it`s a three CD set, it`s rather expensive. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Are Absinthe and Heretic Worthwhile Purchases? Date: 07 Oct 2000 23:55:29 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01C030BA.123223A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Zorn-listers, I've heard that "Absinthe" and "Heretic" are often regarded as rather = mediocre releases from Naked City (especially in comparison to their = other albums). Anyone care to comment? Thanks in advance, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01C030BA.123223A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Zorn-listers,
 
I've heard that "Absinthe" and "Heretic" are often regarded as=20 rather mediocre releases from Naked City (especially in comparison = to their=20 other albums). Anyone care to comment?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_0185_01C030BA.123223A0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: Jarle Vespestad/drummers Date: 07 Oct 2000 15:06:15 CEST Yeah, Jarle drums in Farmers Market, which by the way is a band capable of stimulating more than just your humorous sides. Jarle Vespestad is such an amazing drummer. I saw him perform with the trio, which consists of him, Petter Wettre(sax) Ingebrigt H. Flaten(bass) + David Liebman, at Hamar Jazzclub in Norway a few weeks ago. I know Liebman is one of the worlds finest musicians, and has played with Miles and stuff, but Miles schmiles I couldn`t take my ears off Vespestad. He seriously is up there with my other fave drummers, which is no kindergarden: Tony Williams, Joey Barron, Elvin Jones etc. After that show, some shitfaced, drunk out of his mind friend of Liebman took center stage and said the same thing, so there you go.... >I would add that (if I remember well) Jarle Vespestad (dms) also appears to >be drummer on the last Farmers Market album on W&W... (the "funnest" album >of the year, some said...) > >Pascal. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Gunning" Subject: Re: Are Absinthe and Heretic Worthwhile Purchases? Date: 07 Oct 2000 08:27:01 -0500 >I've heard that "Absinthe" and "Heretic" are often regarded as rather mediocre releases from >Naked City (especially in comparison to their other albums). Anyone care to comment? I haven't heard Heretic but I absolutely love Absinthe. The album I mean. dg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Great norwegian music(No Zorn content.... naturally) Date: 07 Oct 2000 09:29:53 EDT <> my favorite Rune Grammofon disc is Arne Nordheim's Electric, a reissue of a 1974 LP, containing 5 superb electroacoustic pieces. fans of Parmegiani and Bayle should definitely pick this up, it's pretty essential. << I was actually wondering if I would at last order Supersilent's previous 3CD set, "Supersilent 1-3"... has anyone heard it ? Is it as good as "Supersilent 4" and worth the money ? >> it's actually pretty different. while Supersilent 4 is pretty uncategorizable, it leans in the direction of electronica. 1-3 consists of long, slightly aimless free-form improv jams, and didn't really do too much for me. on the other hand, a friend of mine, whose taste I respect, chose it as his single favorite release of that year, so your mileage may vary. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Jarle Vespestad/drummers Date: 07 Oct 2000 16:02:46 +0200 Marius, besides "Supersilent" and the last "Farmers Market", are there other albums highlighting Jarle Vespestad that you would recommend?=20 I found nothing really interesting for me at allmusicguide. The only interesting thing I found was on the french online store "fnac.com". It is a 1999 album by "Le Myst=E8re des Voix Bulgares"/Farmers Market, called "Speed-Balkan-Boogie". Unfortunately, there is nothing more on that page (label, musicians, etc)... Anyone knows this one and has further info/comments ? Thanks Pascal. At 15:06 07/10/00 CEST, Marius Ergo wrote: >Yeah, Jarle drums in Farmers Market, which by the way is a band capable of= =20 >stimulating more than just your humorous sides. >Jarle Vespestad is such an amazing drummer. I saw him perform with the= trio,=20 >which consists of him, Petter Wettre(sax) Ingebrigt H. Flaten(bass) + David= =20 >Liebman, at Hamar Jazzclub in Norway a few weeks ago. I know Liebman is one= =20 >of the worlds finest musicians, and has played with Miles and stuff, but=20 >Miles schmiles I couldn`t take my ears off Vespestad. He seriously is up=20 >there with my other fave drummers, which is no kindergarden: > >Tony Williams, Joey Barron, Elvin Jones etc. > >After that show, some shitfaced, drunk out of his mind friend of Liebman=20 >took center stage and said the same thing, so there you go.... > > >>I would add that (if I remember well) Jarle Vespestad (dms) also appears= to >>be drummer on the last Farmers Market album on W&W... (the "funnest" album >>of the year, some said...) >> >>Pascal. > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at=20 >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: FLopez netcast TONIGHT /Bernhard Gunter Date: 07 Oct 2000 10:15:06 EDT In a message dated 10/6/00 6:13:10 PM, you wrote: << My toilet will start making sounds or the bugs outside will make too muc= h=20 noise. I really wonder how people who work in the same field as Gunter expec= t=20 you to block out all of the distractions,>> Dear Matt & crew, Bernhard Gunter once teased me, saying "how could you possible HEAR my musi= c=20 when you live in new york?" I responded, "the first time i tried to hear yr= =20 stuff i didn't; i was on the subway using my closed ear headphones and=20 thought the disc was defective because i heard nothing." that was after i=20 read the interview with him in Halana mag and immediately said i wanna hear=20 this guys work and bought one. (now i have most on his label trente oiseaux= ,=20 which you can get through anaomalous.) My favorite Fsco L=F3pez disc is "addy and the jungle" on ND records, from t= he=20 mag of the same name out of texas. using insect sounds. his live gig at PS= 1=20 this summer in long island city was a trip; set in a beach environment. =20 audience in blindfolds. major whooshes of sound. very different from his=20 discs. he's touring northamerica again, and he sent me this: FRANCISCO LOPEZ MARTIN TETREAULT I8U Live @ The Darling Foundry, Montreal Playing the Silophone Saturday 7 October, 9:00PM Darling Foundry, 257 rue Prince, Metro Square Victoria Tune in for the live online broadcast at: http://www,silophone.net Le Silophone [The User] Quartier Ephemere CKUT & Alien8 Recordings present FRANCISCO LOPEZ MARTIN TETREAULT yrs Steve Koenig LaFolia.com (La Folia Music review) JazzWeekly.com Signal to Noise - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: newie/feldman Date: 07 Oct 2000 10:01:28 -0400 My suggestion for a Feldman starter disc would be "Only", a collection of pieces for voices and instruments, featuring Joan LaBarbara. (Other Feldman fans differ on this one -- some find it too "Romantic".) To my ears, the best release ever was the original Columbia/Odyssey recording of "Rothko Chapel" and "For Frank O'Hara", never released on CD. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Are Absinthe and Heretic Worthwhile Purchases? Date: 07 Oct 2000 10:05:53 -0400 On Sat, Oct 07, 2000 at 11:55:29PM +1000, Adam Rock wrote: > I've heard that "Absinthe" and "Heretic" are often regarded as rather mediocre releases from Naked City (especially in comparison to their other albums). Anyone care to comment? "Absinthe" is the Naked City disc to which I listen the most. It's much more ambient, without focusing on the jump cut frenzy of some other of their efforts. If you listen to it expecting a rerun of the "Naked City" album you'll be disappointed, but it's a wonderful disc on its own merits. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Are Absinthe and Heretic Worthwhile Purchases? Date: 07 Oct 2000 10:47:16 EDT They are actually two of the best, easily, along w/ Grand Guignol. The first one and Radio strike me as too pastiche-oriented, and therefore would be my least favorite of the bunch. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Ladew Subject: Prelapse (sorry this is long) Date: 07 Oct 2000 10:53:09 -0400 Hello all: since it was mentioned about Prelapse, I figured I'd tell you what I know after having various conversations with Alex the Keyboardist and Mason the bassist/vocalist. (If yr reading this, guys, please correct me if any of this is false) At one time, were all music students at Berklee. In 1995, Painkiller played a show at the Middle East in Cambridge. I believe alex and Mason were in the audience and passed on some tapes of their transcriptions along with the notations to Zorn and he was impressed. This later led to the "Zwei tage des Zorn" (I;m sure that is a glorious error in spelling) festival featuring Zorn as an artist in residence at the New england Conservatory of Music in Boston where Prelapse performed many of the talked about so-called "Unreleased" naked city tunes. (not to mention the Callithumpian Consort, Stephen Drury et. al) >From there, the band played in Boston and also opened for a Zorn/Mike Patton show in Northampton, Ma (also featured Anthony Coleman). Eventually, Prelapse moved to NYC and released the Avant cd in question. I know I harped everyone on this when I first did it, but if you are interested further and haven't seen it before, my supremely stale and in-need of updating web page has photos and an interview I did with them last December. It also has links to their website. The interview is at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ladewtangclan/prelapseinterview.html As far as Prelapse being Naked City, it is obviously un unfair comparison. As a companion piece to a band that I unecessarily perseverate about, it is wonderful! I would reccommend seeing these guys live if you have the opportunity. NP:Big Black "Songs About Fucking" -- Rich Ladew: ladewtangclan@earthlink.net www.home.earthlink.net/~ladewtangclan PCP House Of Coffee: The best in modern, experimental and creative music WUNH 91.3fm Monday evenings 8-9 p.m.(EST) Real Audio at www.wunh.unh.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Are Absinthe and Heretic Worthwhile Purchases? Date: 07 Oct 2000 16:46:15 +0200 >From: Adam Rock >I've heard that "Absinthe" and "Heretic" are often regarded as rather mediocre releases from >Naked City (especially in comparison to their other albums). Anyone care to comment? I could agree as to heretic.. IMO the leats succesful NC release. This is an improv album, and it somehow does not work IMHO. But I love absinthe! A really fantastic album! Very dark, intense, 'ambient' music. A little like 'death ambient' , but more diverse. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Are Absinthe and Heretic Worthwhile Purchases? Date: 07 Oct 2000 16:50:42 +0200 > "Absinthe" is the Naked City disc to which I listen the most. It's much > more ambient, without focusing on the jump cut frenzy of some other of > their efforts. If you listen to it expecting a rerun of the "Naked City" > album you'll be disappointed, but it's a wonderful disc on its own > merits. I was sure that that opinion would be a popular one... BTW, i've never seen or heard NC live. Did they do any shows with absinthe material? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vincent" Subject: Re: MASADA in Brussels Date: 07 Oct 2000 17:37:53 +0100 Hi Just bought my ticket. I'll be at the front. If you can afford it take the 1200,- BF rows. If you pay 800 BF you will be at the top and the sound isn't that great up there. Oh and I'm 28 and male. Vincent 26/11 Jon Zorn MASADA will play at Koninklijk Circus = Onderrichtstraat/Rue de l'Enseignement, 1000 Brussels. It's near (+/- 10 min. walking) to the trainstation 'Brussel Centraal/Bruxelles Centrale'. Tickets are BF 800/1000/1200, credit card holders can call +32-2-5078200, no reservations. My address is Catherine Vercheval PO BOX 859 B-1000 Brussels Belgium Please DO NOT use my name as it is my wife's po box. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: Goran Bregovic again / Re: List demographics Date: 07 Oct 2000 18:23:37 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: "Fritz Feger" Do: Wyslano: 7 pazdziernika 2000 12:52 Temat: Goran Bregovic again / Re: List demographics | Some weeks ago there were some posts on Goran Bregovic. I'm gonna work with | him from november through january at Thalia Theater in Hamburg, so if | there's anything anyone wants me to ask him... Lucky you. I've heard that Goran is very friendly guy, so please tell me later 'bout your impression. Could you give more info about your planned work with him ?? Jerzy np - Jaques Loussier "Toccata" nr - Etgar Keret "Gaza blues" /selected short stories/ Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Abercrombie Date: 07 Oct 2000 11:10:40 -0700 At 9:46 AM 10/6/00, Marcin Gokieli wrote: >From: Tim Blechmann > >> Does anyone know OPEN LAND by John Abercrombie? I just know one track >> from a promo cd. > >Could i get some abercrombie - recommendation from you all zlisters? Thanks, >Marcin Gokieli Timeless, his first ECM record (and maybe his first record as a leader, I'm not sure) still really holds up for me. It's a trio with Jan Hammer (pre-Miami Vice, ie, still has some taste along with his chops) and Jack Dejohnette. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: instruments(not liking them) Date: 07 Oct 2000 11:17:12 -0700 dekater wrote: > > I believe it's stupid to hate any instrument. It's stupid to hate any food, too, but some people just won't eat brussels sprouts. What're you gonna do? -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Frederic Rzewski recomendations Date: 07 Oct 2000 11:19:24 -0700 Brian Olewnick wrote: >=20 > Coming Together/Attica/Les Moulons de Panurge (Opus One) >=20 > Only available on vinyl, AFAIK. Wonderful recording from 1973. I've see= n > CT performed a couple of times, but the speaker's passion is key and > neither of the performances measured up to Steven ben Israel's work > here; the man positively trembles with conviction. There's also a recording of "Coming Together" and "Attica" by Group 180 o= n Hungaroton, released in 1983 according to the box (it was one of the firs= t CD's I bought, around 87 or so; I imagine it's well out of print now). The instrumental performance is wonderful but the speaker seems kind of stilt= ed -- a second-language issue I assume, so it loses some of its power. (the rest = of the CD is Steve Reich's "Music for Pieces of Wood" and pieces by Tibor Szemz=F6= and L=E1szl=F3 Melis, neither of whom I've heard of otherwise.) The best performance of "Coming Together" I've seen was with Rzewski read= ing, with the SF Contemporary Music Players sometime in the early 90s (92, may= be?); one of the most viscerally exciting performances of "minimalism" I've eve= r experienced. The concert ended with Rzewski playing "The People United ..= ."; I have vague memories of William Winant tapping flower pots and talking in = the first piece of the night, so I suspect that was "To the Earth" but I coul= dn't say for sure -- the rest of the evening pretty much flattened me so hard = I've lost track. ISTR there's also a volume of the DGG Avant-Garde series which he shares = with David Bedford and Gyorgy Ligeti, but I could be mistaken -- I can't put m= y hands on the "mixed classical" boxes right now to check. Rzewski also appears, = of course, on the (at least 3) albums by Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Con= sonanza and the early MEV stuff; these are probably the most "zorniented" stuff h= e's been involved with.=20 --=20 Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Great norwegian music(No Zorn content.... naturally) Date: 07 Oct 2000 11:41:10 -0700 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > it's actually pretty different. while Supersilent 4 is pretty > uncategorizable, it leans in the direction of electronica. 1-3 consists of > long, slightly aimless free-form improv jams, and didn't really do too much > for me. on the other hand, a friend of mine, whose taste I respect, chose it > as his single favorite release of that year, so your mileage may vary. Um, respectfully, Jon, I'm surprised to see you say that; maybe you were in a bad mood when you listened? I often have the "slightly aimless" reaction to things other people are digging but I think much of _1-3_ actually is really focussed; the 29-minute opening track in particular has a really engaging arc with well-defined "movements" (takes some guts to open a 3-cd set with a drum solo, too, if you ask me -- it's maybe 3 minutes before the slowed-down voices start drifting in). The live drums help a lot -- Vespestad is a *monster*. Definitely would've been on my top ten list if I'd heard it during its year. I'll tack on my standard addendum to Supersilent discussions that people should also check out the _EEE_ album (on Paratactile, 1999) by Powerfield, a trio comprising Joe Gallivan, Gary Smith, and Pat Thomas, which mines some similar spaces. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: "Exotic Audio Research" article Date: 07 Oct 2000 11:50:54 -0700 (PDT) For those who do not read the WIRE, here is a past article on: "Exotic Audio Reseach (Panasonic (now Pan Sonic), Disinformation, Stephen McGreevy, Chris Watson, Alan Lamb, Bernhard Guenter, John Duncan, Jliat) by Rob Young (issue 157/March 97)" Pretty old, but interesting nontheless. Available on the WIRE site, under "Articles": http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/index.htm ----s, skidding towards subscription __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: John Abercrombie Date: 07 Oct 2000 14:53:23 EDT Marcin Gokieli asked-- Could i get some abercrombie - recommendation from you all zlisters? I like two of his really old albums: The first (and for the longest time only) Gateway record with Dave Holland and Jack DeJonette, and "Timeless" with DeJonette and Jan Hammer playing organ. Abercrombie's playing is very freewheeling on these two records, tumbling at times on the edge of abandon. Back in those days ( I haven't heard a whole lot of their stuff in the meantime) Abercrombie and DeJonette seemed to have some kind of psychic thing going when they played together, like one mind playing their two instruments. (At the Gateway concert in the mid 1970s, DeJonette--how DO you spell his name anyway??--incidentally played the greatest drum solo I have ever witnessed, beginning with slow taps, like water dripping from a leaky faucet on his snare, and building slowly till fifteen minutes later hewas furiously playing the whole kit.) The contribution of Jan Hammer, whom I've always liked, is interesting and good too. They do one piece on "Timeless" that Hammer performed with his own group on the album "Oh Yeah" (remember that one?) released about the same time. Completely different sound--organ with Abercrombie, synthesizer on his own record. Jerry B. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vigill Subject: More info needed... Date: 07 Oct 2000 21:06:46 +0200 Hello Zornlisters, first of all thanks for info and comments on Casper Brotzmann. But right now I'm searching for info (and recommendations) on two other musicians. First of them is Hank Roberts - I've heard fragments of his record. Don't know the title, but Tim Berne and Robin Eubanks were playing there. The second is Masabumi Kikuchi (hope that I've written his name properly...if not, do not hesitate to correct me). I'm looking for lineups for two of his recordings released at the beginning of eighties - Susto (?) and One Way Traveller (?). Also, please recommend some other Kikuchi's recordings. Thanks Vigill - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: stock, hausen, & walkman Date: 07 Oct 2000 12:18:36 -0700 (PDT) In reading an Invisible Jukebox with the electronic duo Stock, Hausen, and Walkman (who I haven't yet heard), I found out that members are Andrew Sharpley (whose work I know from the outstanding RIEN by Noel Akchote) and Matt Wand (who I notice has worked with Tony Oxley---Incus CD15 The Tony Oxley Quartet: Tony Oxley, percussion; Matt Wand, drum machines & tape switchboard; Pat Thomas,electronics & keyboard; Derek Bailey, electric guitar---among others). This is interesting and makes me wonder what S,H,&W are like? Also, has anyone heard the aforementioned Tony Oxley Quartet record, and what's it like? Best, ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: instruments(not liking them) Date: 07 Oct 2000 15:18:17 -0400 (EDT) I think more bad music has been made with guitars and drums than any other instruments over the past 50 years, but I don't dislike the instruments themselves. Some decent people play them. Hey, I don't even dislike slide trombones, even though when I saw David Murray's Octet at Sweet Basil more than 20 years ago I was seated right in front of Craig Harris. That meant every time he took a solo I had to keep moving my head or risk instant decapitation. Ken Waxman --- Jim Flannery wrote: > dekater wrote: > > > > I believe it's stupid to hate any instrument. > > It's stupid to hate any food, too, but some people > just won't eat brussels > sprouts. What're you gonna do? _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: eye/boredoms - karoake BORN TO BE WILD Date: 07 Oct 2000 16:40:07 -0400 Inspired by a post on this list to catch up on what the boredoms are up to, I've been checking out boredom sites for the past couple hours and found the below info. If anyone knows anyone who has this and is willing to trade tapes or something, please email me.... thanks! WHAT IS THE RAREST BOREDOMS SIDE PROJECT RECORDING? According to a post by M. Rizzi on the New-Music List: I almost forgot this other Yamatsuka Eye...er, I mean Yamantaka Eye tidbit from my recent trip to Japan. Eye was telling me about how the Karoake bars in Osaka have the capability to record a CD of the patrons evening of song for about $20 (they must be using that computer based recordable CD format). Eye talked about how he had them record his sing-along to 'Born To Be Wild.' Just the idea of this blew my mind. Unfortunately, he doesn't have it anymore. He went to a record shop (Forever 3 in Osaka, I believe) and sold it for like $70...and the store sold it for about $150 almost immediately. God, I would have loved to heard that. I guess none of us will either, but just thinking about it might be enough. Ha. I still laugh thinking of the possible looks the other customers must have had when he started screaming along to the bouncing ball. Boorrrrn The Be Wiraerararggggggggh! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Supersilent Date: 07 Oct 2000 22:46:43 +0100 > 3CD set, "Supersilent 1-3"... has anyone heard it ? Is it as good as > "Supersilent 4" and worth the money ? I don't have SUPERSILENT 1-3, but I've heard parts of it in a shop, and these records seem to be much harsher and more abrasive in terms of sound ... 4 seems to be softer. Could be just the parts I listened to, but since I got this impression from all 3 discs, I guess it's true. > "Zwei tage des Zorn" (I;m sure that is a glorious error in spelling) No, it's correct, though "Tage" has a capital T. For those who don't know what it means, it's simply "Two days of Zorn" or "Two days of anger", playing with the double meaning of the word Zorn. Kind regards, - Chris. ___________________________________________________________________ ** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de ** ** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil ** Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn The Herbie Hancock Mailing List ___________________________________________________________________ "When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: marco Subject: masada in prague Date: 07 Oct 2000 23:21:56 +1000 hello apologies if this has already been answered but there was mention of masada performing in prague and i was wondering if anyone had the details (dates venues) thanks marco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: Bone Machine Date: 07 Oct 2000 19:19:04 -0600 >Fav.Album: John Zorn - Bar Kokhba, Tom Waits - Bone Machine, I'd never listened to Tom until two summers ago when I went on a rampage. I still like Bone Machine the best although The Black Rider does rival it. Those two are the most interesting to me in terms of the choice/use of instruments. I don't think the track order on BM is an accident at all. I love hearing "I don't want to grow up" right after one of his most serious death ballads. I've never quite understood the pedistal which Rain Dogs occupies...not that it's bad but I don't really like it more than say Frank's Wild Years or even Swordfish trombones. In case any Tom Waits admirers here haven't seen it please go out of your way to find the movie "fishing with John vol.1" where Jon Lurie takes Tom Waits on a fishing trip. -- Very funny movie. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Szemzo (was Rzewski recomendations) Date: 07 Oct 2000 23:04:45 -0400 At 11:19 AM 10/7/00 -0700, Jim Flannery wrote: >the rest of the CD [snip] pieces by Tibor Szemz=F6=20 Szemzo has a superb, although short, electroacoustic piece on Leo based on Wittgenstein's writing entitled Tractatus. Voices reading Wittgenstein (in different languages) fade in around short snatches of melody, very peaceful and quiet. Not like poetry with the music, because the voices are often too quiet to understand, but very much like a dream. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: Are Absinthe and Heretic Worthwhile Purchases? Date: 07 Oct 2000 23:38:25 EDT In a message dated 10/7/00 7:58:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << >From: Adam Rock >I've heard that "Absinthe" and "Heretic" are often regarded as rather mediocre releases from >Naked City (especially in comparison to their other albums). Anyone care to comment? I could agree as to heretic.. IMO the leats succesful NC release. This is an improv album, and it somehow does not work IMHO. B >> I don't have all the NC releases but Heretic is my favorite one that I have. I love improv and putting some of the best improvisors on the planet together and not having them improvise(as on the other releases) seems like a waste. The cd is broken up into duos, trios,etc. of all the combinations of NC. There's 24 pieces altogether, each of just a few minutes in length. With these guys its not typical improv anyway, many different textures and moods, although Eye is hard to take for more than a few minutes at a time. There's quite a few Frisell, Frith, and Baron (trio) tracks and those are very successful. There's only 1 track with the full band, kind of funky, where you get to hear Fred Frith sound like Bill Laswell. I would highly recommend this release,IMHO. John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re: masada in prague Date: 08 Oct 2000 01:19:41 -0400 Hello Marco, Well, though I'm living in NYC I opened Czech search engine and found that Masada is opening Alternativa festival in Prague at Archa Theater on November 27. I bet that they are not selling tickets yet, but the space is not so big so anybody who wants to be there should think about the tickets now. Archa is one of the best places in Prague. Last year I was there and caught several Alternativa concerts including Ruins. The sound is pretty good there and amphitheater rows let people see everything on stage. So go buy tickets and enjoy Masada in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Saturday, October 07, 2000, you wrote to me: m> apologies if this has already been answered but m> there was mention of masada performing in prague m> and i was wondering if anyone had the details (dates venues) -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Lopez/Tetreault/I8U at Darling Foundry Date: 08 Oct 2000 01:32:30 -0400 Hello, I just came back a few minutes ago from the Lopez/Tetreault/I8U concert at the Darling Foundry (in Montreal of course!). I won't say much about I8U and Tetreault, but I think the Francesco Lopez performance can be described in one word: WOW! Hmm, let me add two other words: mesmerizing and excellent! It's been a long time since I had the opportunity to hear such wonderful music. Very hard to describe though... Let me try something: having your head in the engine of an airplaine during 50 minutes (I know what I am talking about, there's an airplane corridor on top of my house!). However, you must remember that the sound of that engine was going through the Silo #5... The result: a huge and powerful sound, but not aggressive. I don't know how it would sound without the silo, but if Lopez is coming in your town, don't miss it! Simply mind blowing, but without pain... Yes, it's possible! The Tetreault set was correct. The first 15 minutes were mainly random bips/ clicks/blitz/call-it-what-you-want over a drone. The drone would sometimes be very deep, sometimes very thin. The finale was really good though. For the last 10 minutes, he generates a continous sound, simply adding textures here and there. Very noisy, but much better than the first part of his set in my opinion. A funny thing happened, there was a moment where he was kind of looking for something to do. This part was almost silent. At one point, he decided to smash the arm of his turntable. However, it was at the 'off' position (or something similar), so no sound came out of his violent move... If anybody's interested to know more about the I8U set, just ask and I'll write about it. same thing for the Lopez and Tetreault sets. I would write more but my bed is calling me! Tschuss, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Great norwegian music(No Zorn content.... naturally) Date: 08 Oct 2000 01:51:27 EDT In a message dated 10/7/00 2:45:19 PM, newgrange@sfo.com writes: << Um, respectfully, Jon, I'm surprised to see you say that; maybe you were in a bad mood when you listened? >> actually, I've tried to figure out what people were hearing in this triple CD set a bunch of times over the past few years, never with much success. I'm trying again as I type, and disc 1, track 1 still sounds aimless to me, and pretty wanky to boot. <> I didn't like this record either for similar reasons, so maybe it's just a personal blind spot of some kind. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jarrah Jones" Subject: News for Lulu Date: 08 Oct 2000 06:16:47 GMT Anyone know if the News For Lulu albums are available? If so where from? Thanks in advance, Jones. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: absinthe & heretic Date: 08 Oct 2000 01:13:04 -0500 (CDT) marcin wrote: "I could agree as to heretic.. IMO the leats succesful NC release. This is an improv album, and it somehow does not work IMHO." I have a different feeling on Heretic. the first couple of times i listened to it i felt is was disjointed and lacked interaction. then, at some point, it all clicked, and everyting came together. since then, i hear some nice interaction, not to mention a bit of humor, in the performances. a note on the contents of the disc: as marcin noted, it's all (free) improv. what's nice is that the linup varies from track to track, so you get duos, trios, quartets, etc. this provides a bit of variety to the proceedings. as for absinthe, i like that one too. whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: masada in prague Date: 08 Oct 2000 09:34:18 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > year I was there and caught several Alternativa concerts including > Ruins. The sound is pretty good there and amphitheater rows let people > see everything on stage. Do you know maybe wht other bands are playing the festival? thanks for your help, Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: Are Absinthe and Heretic Worthwhile Purchases? Date: 08 Oct 2000 09:31:38 +0200 > I don't have all the NC releases but Heretic is my favorite one that I have. > I love improv and putting some of the best improvisors on the planet together > and not having them improvise(as on the other releases) seems like a waste. I don't know, i just hardly dig it. i have similiar impression about zorn-previte-horwitz-sharp 'downtown lullabyes' (do i spell right? obviously not). Taking 5 gret improvisers together and letting them play may not always be the most succesful option. But maybe it's just me and my digging capabilities. > although Eye is hard to take for more than a few minutes at a time. I like him on al the others NC albums he plays on (ie all but absinthe). But not on this one. >I would highly recommend > this release,IMHO. > John Threadgould Well, i also think the disc is worth its money - it's quite interesting. But i don't have any emotional link with it Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vigill Subject: Re: Bone Machine Date: 08 Oct 2000 10:30:27 +0200 "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" wrote: > I still like Bone Machine the best although The Black Rider does rival it. Agree. But I have to add Big Time (though I hate track diferrences between CD and video - both are great and worth having). Ribot does a great job there. > but I don't really like it more than say Frank's Wild Years or even Swordfish > trombones. Frank's was the first Waits' recording I've ever heard. I found it really cool (Straight To The Top - my favourite). But Swordfishtrombones disappointed me at first (actually, it heard the whole record just about half a year ago). Right now this record seems to be OK, but it's not my Waits' favorite. Vigill - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vigill Subject: Re: Bone Machine Date: 08 Oct 2000 12:12:13 +0200 > (actually, it heard the whole record just about half a year ago of course, it should be I heard - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Abercrombie Date: 08 Oct 2000 13:27:45 +0100 >> Could i get some abercrombie - recommendation from you all zlisters? There's also a cool album by the Lonnie Smith Trio (that's Dr. Lonnie Smith, not to be confused with Lonnie "Liston" Smith), with Abercrombie on guitar, Smith on organ and Marvin "Smitty" Smith on drums. It's called PURPLE HAZE and features 4 lenghty renditions of Jimi Hendryx tunes. I think the band has quite a lot of great interplay here, even though the playing keeps restrained for the most part. On "Purple Haze", though, everyone lets go and there's some weird psychedelic stuff going on. Kind regards, - Chris. ___________________________________________________________________ ** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de ** ** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil ** Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn The Herbie Hancock Mailing List ___________________________________________________________________ "When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: Jarle Vespestad/drummers Date: 08 Oct 2000 15:53:58 CEST Pascal You should check out "The Trio", which is more of a sixties free jazz thing. They have released two records; "Meet the Locals" and "In Colour"(featuring David Liebman), both on small norwegian label Resonant Music. I just purchased "In colour", so I`m not sure what to make of it yet. There`s lots of energy, and the double soprano assault of Wettre and Liebman is stunning. "Meet the locals" is a little less free-form than "In Colour", and I absolutely adore this record. I would say Vespestad is very inventive and agressive on this record. Great stuff! Farmers Market has also released a disc called "Musikk fra Hybridene", which is more of a "joke record", than their newest, and has a lot of rock-jazz-bulgarian crossover stuff. Not their best, but worth checking out. Lots of weird time signatures, my favourite is the classic "(Come on Baby)Do the Balkan Boogie", which has a funk groove in seven. Didn`t you like "Speed Balkan Boogie"? I think it`s great. It`s their first release, but I think it has a lot in common with their latest. You should also check out is "Orbit" on Curling Legs, which is a duo recording with Vespestad and tenor man Tore Brunborg. I`m actually listening to it right now. It`s pretty relaxed for the most part, and has some standards. There is also a two minute Vespestad solo, which gives you some insight to his playing. This album also has a nice version of "Django". While we are on the subject of Norwegian drums/sax duo recordings, you should also check out "The Only Way to Travel"(Blå Productions) with Petter Wettre and Per Oddvar Johansen. > >Marius, >besides "Supersilent" and the last "Farmers Market", are there other albums >highlighting Jarle Vespestad that you would recommend? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jarrah Jones" Subject: Ornette Coleman's "W.R.U." Date: 08 Oct 2000 13:53:21 GMT Everyone knows Ornette Coleman's "W.R.U.", right? Does anyone know what the letters stand for? Thanks, Jones. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman's "W.R.U." Date: 08 Oct 2000 16:13:39 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Jarrah" == Jarrah Jones writes: Jarrah> Everyone knows Ornette Coleman's "W.R.U.", right? Does Jarrah> anyone know what the letters stand for? Wit and its Relation to the Unconscious (=> Freud). (Can you now complete T.&T., C.&D., and R.P.D.D.?) --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Farmers Market Date: 08 Oct 2000 18:21:51 CEST jazzscene.no has a very decent interview with Stian Carstensen of Farmers Market, which includes some of the songs off the new album, and a discussion regarding Jarle Vespestad's drum style. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Feger Subject: Re: Goran Bregovic again Date: 08 Oct 2000 18:43:40 +0200 >Could you give more info about your planned work with him ?? It's gonna be a stage version of Dante's epic poem La Divina Commedia, directed by Thomasz Pandur (anyone knows what he's been doing so far?) and Bregovic at Hamburg Thalia Theater, and it will be out on january 20 next year. I don't know the complete actor's cast, but as musicians, there will be Philipp Haagen on tuba and trombone, Michael Verhovec on drums and percussion, and me on cello, bass, whistling, vocals. Bregovic is currently writing something, and rehearsals are scheduled from november through january. I'm kind of looking forward to this :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christina Carter" Subject: Re: Lopez Date: 08 Oct 2000 11:57:06 CDT The Lopez concert I attended in Chattanooga, TN A few months ago was also mesmerizing. Loud, detailed sound with no feeling of threat or aggression. And absolutely no pain in the ears. Also, more than just my ears and head the sound also moved down into the chest area and then to the legs. Very hard to explain, but someone else there mentioned the same experience so perhaps it was intentional. Though others didn't have the same experience so perhaps it was to do with where one was in the small auditorium. Before the concert he gave a small speech that there was nothing to be afraid of and that he knew what he was doing. Also that there was nothing to watch as far as his performance. This talk turned off some of the folks that I was with. But it seemed appropriate as the audience was very mixed. It was a varied musical bill and a lot of the audience might not have been familiar with this music (though open to the experience). Christina >From: Mathieu Belanger >Reply-To: Mathieu Belanger >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Lopez/Tetreault/I8U at Darling Foundry >Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 01:32:30 -0400 > >Hello, > I think the Francesco Lopez performance can be described in >one word: WOW! Hmm, let me add two other words: mesmerizing and excellent! >Very hard to describe though... Let me try something: having your head in >the >engine of an airplaine during 50 minutes. However, you must remember >that the sound of that engine was going through the Silo #5... The result: >a >huge and powerful sound, but not aggressive. > >I don't know how it would sound without the silo, but if Lopez is coming in >your town, don't miss it! Simply mind blowing, but without pain... Yes, >it's >possible! > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: Improvised Company in Japan Date: 08 Oct 2000 19:07:55 +0200 (CEST) Some days ago, Steve Smith asked about this new japanese label called Improvised Company. (released CDs with Derek Bailey, Peter Brotzmann ). There is a website : http://www1.ttcn.ne.jp/~improvised.co Jacques Oger np : Resonance LMC double CD - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: Goran Bregovic again Date: 08 Oct 2000 19:41:15 +0200 Fritz Feger napisal: >but as musicians, there will | be Philipp Haagen on tuba and trombone, Michael Verhovec on drums and | percussion, and me on cello, bass, whistling, vocals. Oh, it's very surprising. Bregovic's score for chamber line-up, without choirs, great brass band, lots of strings. I'll looking forward for more informations and CD maybe. Thanks Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re: Odp: masada in prague Date: 08 Oct 2000 14:25:34 -0400 Hello Marcin, Sunday, October 08, 2000, you wrote to me: >> year I was there and caught several Alternativa concerts including >> Ruins. The sound is pretty good there and amphitheater rows let people >> see everything on stage. MG> Do you know maybe wht other bands are playing the festival? thanks for MG> your help, There is no such information yet. -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: ||| Satoko Fujji ||| Date: 08 Oct 2000 07:36:02 +0200 Zorn-agains, I'm really enjoying Satoko Fujji's "Toward To West". It's with Jim Black and Mark Dresser. Powerfull and beautiful. I just had to share. _ Rob ......<..... || http://www.frontstage.com/rob "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing". - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Re: News for Lulu Date: 08 Oct 2000 15:03:22 EDT I've see both Lulu discs at the Tower Records in Downtown Chicago so maybe if you try Tower's web page: http://www.towerrecords.com/ Both discs are wonderful and do a great justice to the hard bop era. Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sen" Subject: taj mahal travellers Date: 08 Oct 2000 21:54:12 +0200 Has anyone on the list heard the Taj Mahal Travellers' Live in Stockholm 2 CD set? I already have the East Bionic Symphonia LP, which I adore, and the "August 1974" 2CD, which is find just OK. Shall I love the Stockholm one? Thanks in advance, Best wishes, Sen. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dirlack@t-online.de (Bjoern Dirlack) Subject: Re: stock, hausen, & walkman Date: 08 Oct 2000 22:07:00 +0200 Scott Handley schrieb: > This is interesting and makes me wonder what S,H,&W are like? Nervous, cut-up samples. The records are almost dancable, the concerts are more rougher. All is done with a big humour. I recommend "Oh! What a bag!" (Hot Air) Bjoern. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: Heretic Date: 08 Oct 2000 20:10:05 EDT heretic is my favorite Naked City record. very moody and frightening, not song oriented like the other albums. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #106 Date: 08 Oct 2000 20:14:02 EDT In a message dated 10/8/00 1:46:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << a note on the contents of the disc: as marcin noted, it's all (free) improv. what's nice is that the linup varies from track to track, so you get duos, trios, quartets, etc. this provides a bit of variety to the proceedings. >> I thought everything on Heretic was composed...i read that in either an interview or commentary on the album. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: Lopez Date: 08 Oct 2000 21:24:00 -0400 Hello, >The Lopez concert I attended in Chattanooga, TN A few months ago was also >mesmerizing. Loud, detailed sound with no feeling of threat or aggression. >And absolutely no pain in the ears. Also, more than just my ears and head >the sound also moved down into the chest area and then to the legs. I could not feel the sound in my chest and legs, but the ground of the old Darling Foundry was shaking a lot. The walls were also probably shaking, but nothing fell from the 20 meters high ceiling!! >Also that there was nothing to watch as far as his performance. The same thing happened. However, they brought the concept further and distributed some headband so that the audience would be blindfolded. To make sure nobody would have something to look at, Lopez played under a kind of tent made with a black sheet. By the way, anybody knows what he is using to create these huge sound? I am curious to now what part of the sound is associated with the silo. Tschuss, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: News for Lulu Date: 08 Oct 2000 22:43:46 -0400 or try the downtown music gallery in manhattan... they can get anything! (bruce the owner is even part of the scene) http://www.dtmgallery.com/ > From: User384726@aol.com > Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:03:22 EDT > To: spillane10@hotmail.com > Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: News for Lulu > > I've see both Lulu discs at the Tower Records in Downtown Chicago so maybe if > you try Tower's web page: > http://www.towerrecords.com/ > Both discs are wonderful and do a great justice to the hard bop era. > > > Aaron Solomon > > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Les Henderson Subject: Unheard Music Series Date: 09 Oct 2000 03:34:29 -0500 (CDT) I was just wondering what other people on the list think about the Unheard Music Series that is being released by Atavistic. I just received the Han Bennink album "Nerve Beats", Leo Cuypers' "Heavy Days Are Here Again", Sven-Ake Johansson's "Schlingerland/dynamische Schwingungen". I have only had a chance to listen through most of the Bennink album, but I like it a lot. I personally enjoy both his record music and his performance with antics, etc. I have only seen him twice with ICP, but I liked his performance as much as any of the other musicians, just a bit more comical generally. I would like to hear what other people on the list think of these and other albums in the series. BTW If people are still paying attentiion to the demographics stuff on the list, I am a 21 year old male college student who mostly listens to rock and jazz. Les Henderson ljhender@midway.uchicago.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Chango Spasiuk Date: 09 Oct 2000 11:06:56 -0400 Love this guy's work on Cyro Baptista's Avant release. According to AMG, he's got a disc called "Polkas di Mi Tierra", which I'm guessing means it's made up of Brazilian polkas. I need to hear this! Is anyone able to provide further descriptions? Thanks. Um, I'm assuming Chango's a guy from the pic in the Baptista disc, but I'm not absolutely sure, having never encountered any Chango's and given the photo's vagueness. I'm also assuming, surname notwithstanding, that (s)he's Brazilian. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Zorn List Digest V3 #106 Date: 09 Oct 2000 17:30:34 +0200 > I thought everything on Heretic was composed...i read that in either an > interview or commentary on the album. I'm almost sure that you're not right. In the soundpieces interview JZ speaks about the NC albms, and he mentions the improv one (which one if not heretic?). In the sameinterview he speaks of torure garden as fully notated music. So that's where the confusion may come from. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: matt'n'sig'n'chad'n'susie'n'cyro'n'mat Date: 09 Oct 2000 12:22:03 -0500 >>Sigmund, no one wants you around here anymore. >>No one here gets frustrated about differences of opinion. >>We're all thornless roses around here you prick. now that i know this was meant as a joke, it's funny! >>I think there's a new cd out on Avant with Dr. Chad , Joe Morris, Mark >>Dresser, and a drummer who's name I forgot. that would be the great susie ibarra, who lends much to the set. pascal also mentioned nping her 'flower after flower', which i'm yet to hear. any thougts? >>BEAT THE DONKEY. should i spend the cat food money on it or not? haven't heard the cd it it's out, but this is a live band no doubt! tonna fun. Pascal also mentioned a mat maneri trio album of 'tone diali ng' covers. i guess this means ornette. what is this? i'm unawares. kg, who seeing a(nother) laswell war brewing is glad to know he'll be sitting it out. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re: Odp: cool your jets, fogies Date: 09 Oct 2000 12:23:15 -0500 journey to the end of the night. didn't they base an afternoon drama serial on this book? kg _______________________________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- > meanwhile, i'm now reading celine and spent last night and this morning which one? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Friedrich Kapitzke" Subject: Re: taj mahal travellers Date: 09 Oct 2000 20:33:03 +0200 I heard a Taj Mahal concert in Berlin last thursday and was quite dissapointed about the boaring performance with a lausy guitarplayer in a low quality blues band. Friedrich. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 9:54 PM > Has anyone on the list heard the Taj Mahal Travellers' Live in Stockholm 2 > CD set? I already have the East Bionic Symphonia LP, which I adore, and the > "August 1974" 2CD, which is find just OK. Shall I love the Stockholm one? > > Thanks in advance, > > Best wishes, > > Sen. > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: taj mahal travellers Date: 09 Oct 2000 12:30:12 -0700 (PDT) --- Friedrich Kapitzke wrote: > I heard a Taj Mahal concert in Berlin last thursday > and was quite > dissapointed about the boaring performance > with a lausy guitarplayer in a low quality blues > band. Um...I think that's the blues singer Taj Mahal, not the 70s Japanese psyche collective Taj Mahal Travellers. I very recently sprung for the STOCKHOLM 1971 disc, and I've listened to it only about once. EVeryone I've talked to like AUGUST 1974 (P-Vine re-issue) quite a bit more, so I'd venture to say you'd be disappointed; but how can you tell? The whole album is almost two hours long, very much the drone record. Some remarkable moaning (processed/delayed vocals), what sounds like extended technique on a contrabasse, and assorted wind instruments, etc. The packaging is standard 2CD case, but sucks (too low budget for the price). Honestly, I think your money would be better spent on some Morton Feldman, but each to his own. I just ordered AUGUST 1974 about a week ago, perversely; hope I like it. (Damn! Compulsion.) I went to see the cheeze-metal band Fiehouse years ago; instead, the show was fIREHOSE with Mike Watt. I was scarred/changed for life. -----s, "Who are these freaks?!" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hugo Linares" Subject: RE: Chango Spasiuk Date: 09 Oct 2000 18:44:08 -0300 Hi Brian and rest of Listmembers, >Love this guy's work on Cyro Baptista's Avant release. According to AMG, >he's got a disc called "Polkas di Mi Tierra", which I'm guessing means >it's made up of Brazilian polkas. I need to hear this! Is anyone able to >provide further descriptions? Thanks. Um, I'm assuming Chango's a guy >from the pic in the Baptista disc, but I'm not absolutely sure, having >never encountered any Chango's and given the photo's vagueness. I'm also >assuming, surname notwithstanding, that (s)he's Brazilian. > >Brian Olewnick > >- > Spasiuk is a brilliant accordion player, who deserves a wider recognition. "Polcas de mi Tierra" was released on Acqua Records last year, and it's a fine and rewarding recording. Liner notes refers to "Polcas..." as "a reassesment of a century of Ucranian immigrants folkmusic as seen within cultural context of the Province of Misiones". Spasiuk was born in a small city called Apostoles, Province of Misiones and he says that Polcas "incorporates current and esential melodies from my home and land. They are part of the unwritten history of our regional music, and of the present of our regional music. It is my personal vision of the man and woman who inhabit the farmstead: humble, and with a deep spirituality, joy and tenderness." Don't miss this record because it's fantastic and superb. You will get some information (Spanish, sorry) at: www.changospasiuk.com.ar If you can get the CD, please let me know privately and I'll manage. Hope this helps. Hugo Linares - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Westphal Subject: Augen Video Date: 09 Oct 2000 15:53:39 -0700 Is anyone familiar with Augen Video of Japan? I'm looking for some contact info for them so I can inquire about a video that they offer that I can't seem to find (tried forcedexposure already among others). FYI Augen features several videos of experimental/improv/etc artists mainly from Japan. Just to add some Zorn connection to this whole e-mail, they have a video of Jon who has a CD out on Tzadik. Feel free to contact me off list - c np: pluramon - Render Bandits - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury Subject: Re: Cage Seasons Date: 09 Oct 2000 23:18:14 -0400 At 11:02 PM 10/3/00 -0600, marco wrote: >by chance does anyone have an opinion re the ecm 2000 release seasons (cage) >thanks in advance it's a beautiful performance of the orchestral version of Seasons (Dennis Russell Davies is conductor; he recorded the same work for the first time about 30 years ago) and also of the number piece for orchestra. unfortunately, Margaret Leng Tan's recording of the prepared piano concerto on the same disc is handicapped by insufferably lousy recording quality - the recording engineer is an insufferable and incompetent goon (I know, he's the same guy that recorded me&Dennis doing Zorn's piano concerto, some of the worst piano sound on CD i've ever heard) and not a nice person. --steve check out the cool new stuff on http://www.stephendrury.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ajda snyder" Subject: Friday the 13th (No Zorn content) Date: 10 Oct 2000 00:57:14 EDT The Binge Purge series continues with another innovator on Friday October 13th. The guest is a fascinating man - Scott Dakota. We will be on WMBR 88.1FM in Cambridge, MA from 2-4PM EST. Or listen in at . Scott Dakota, Musician, Researcher and Seeker, finds focus in remembering that the word "philosopher", coined by Pythagoras in pre-classical Greece, does not translate as "one who claims to be wise", but as "one who loves wisdom" (philo = love, Sophia = Goddess of wisdom / learning / arts). Scott has been a multi-media artist from a very young age, adding music around age 15. Upon encountering C.G. Jung's work on depth psychology and archetypes at age 12, he rapidly embarked on an intensive program of meditation and consciousness self-exploration, which is still ongoing. He graduated with high honors with a degree in Psychology and Music, and has been working for many years as a well-respected music instructor and consultant. Recent years have been devoted to researching and exploring a synthesis of knowledge from the ancient Sumerian, Egyptian, Vedic (India), and Pythagorean Greek unified mathematical / musical / spiritual sciences with the exciting new progress in quantum physics, consciousness research and complex non-linear systems theory. He is not just interested in passive armchair contemplation of these matters, but in full active ignition and exploration of new and expanded reality paradigms. Scott also invents, builds (or rebuilds) most of the instruments he uses in The Moors and in his own sonic / consciousness music. He also extensively modifies his effects and electronics. Rather than traditional Western European classical music theory based on 12 equally spaced notes per octave, Scott has revived and updated the ancient practice of using and relating musical pitches as whole number ratios of vibrational frequencies. The modern term for this is extended just-intonation. This helps to make consonances more satisfying, dissonances more nuanced, makes available many more than 12 notes per octave (each with distinctly vivid flavours) and greatly intensifies the psycho-acoustic trance properties of sound overall. Bio courtesy of http://www.drawbridge.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: taj mahal travellers Date: 09 Oct 2000 22:06:39 -0700 Scott Handley wrote: > I very recently sprung for the STOCKHOLM > 1971 disc, and I've listened to it only about once. > EVeryone I've talked to like AUGUST 1974 (P-Vine > re-issue) quite a bit more, so I'd venture to say > you'd be disappointed; but how can you tell? FWIW, I haven't heard the '74 set but I've been enjoying the '71 set quite a bit; probably the nearest touchstone I can come up with is Tangerine Dream's _Zeit_ (the one with cellos & no rhythms, if you only know their later stuff); as Scott says, quite the drone record, but with a fair amount of stuff going on if you pay close attention. The packaging isn't much (hey, personnel listings are cheap but they ain't here) but sound & performance are worth the investment. Now I *really* haveta get that '74 set ... -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: matt'n'sig'n'chad'n'susie'n'cyro'n'mat Date: 10 Oct 2000 09:48:27 +0200 Kurt Gottschalk wrote: >pascal also >mentioned nping her 'flower after flower', which i'm yet to hear. any thougts? Sorry, I won't have time enough to write a review today, but certainly, this will be in my top10 of the year (of course, I haven't heard everything, though). You can find reviews of "Flower after Flower" at: - allaboutjazz.com ( http://www.allaboutjazz.com/REVIEWS/r0700_021.htm - One final note http://www.tc.umn.edu/~holt0108/ibarra_flower.html (I've been there previously but cannot acces this page today, you can try anyway....) - I've seen also that a thread was started yesterday in the record review section of the Jazzcorner forums (http://www.jazzcorner.com/speakeasy/).... but the thread isn't really successful (2 messages now). >Pascal also mentioned a mat maneri trio album of 'tone diali >ng' covers. i guess this means ornette. what is this? i'm unawares. Yes, it's the Mat Maneri trio covering Ornette's Tone Dialing. The album is Fifty-one Sorrows, on Leo records, with Maneri (Baritone violin), Randy Peterson (dms), Ed Schuller (b). Tone Dialing appears twice on the album (alternate takes). The other tracks are Maneri's. I haven't heard this one yet, but I ordered it from Fnac.com last week, so...... I may receive it within... say, one month ? You can find it at any decent online store... For a review: allaboutjazz.com (http://www.allaboutjazz.com/REVIEWS/r0100_092.htm). All the best, Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: James Blood Ulmer band: who? Date: 10 Oct 2000 08:05:15 GMT Hello, Does anybody know who James Blood Ulmer is playing with at the moment? He is touring Europe later this month and I might have a change to see him, so I'm curious about his current lineup. Thanks, ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: traditional greek music Date: 10 Oct 2000 10:18:29 +0200 hi y'all, just got another cd from the "wdr / world network" series that i can wholeheartedly recommend. vol. 46 "greece/epirus": petro-loukas chalkias & kompania on clarinet, violon, lute and defi they play traditional shepherd tunes, traditional dances, music for festivities, and the likes. all pieces are slow instrumentals, sometimes reminding me of klezmer. if you're into traditional greek music, check this cd out. patRice np: john coltrane, transitions nr: eiji yoshikawa, musashi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Fans of Wayne Horvitz? Date: 10 Oct 2000 03:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Wayne Horvitz's latest album "American Bandstand" is quite amazing. His compositions seem to be getting much stronger as the years pass by. This album features the Zony Mash band in an acoustic setting with beautiful melodies flying all over the place. I've got all 3 Zony Mash recordings, but this album is stronger that all of them... although it's not considered a Zony Mash release really. ===== -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: traditional greek music Date: 10 Oct 2000 08:45:23 -0400 patRice wrote: > if you're into traditional greek music, check this cd out. I don't know about traditional Greek music, but I think it's a pretty safe assumption that most everyone here is into traditional Geek music! Brian Olewnick NP: Bengt Berger - Bitter Funeral Beer (an all-time classic!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pedro moreno Subject: MERZBOW (Austin, TX Oct. 21) Date: 10 Oct 2000 09:07:10 -0500 Merzbow in a rare Texas performance. October 21, 2000. Austin Texas. Cinematexas 5: 2000 international short film and video festival this will be the only North American concert on this tour. for more info consult http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~cinematx/schedule.html Please forward Pedro Moreno Epistrophy Arts http://www.independentaustin.com/epistrophy.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andy Diaz Subject: Re: Fans of Wayne Horvitz?/Friend of Tim Young Date: 10 Oct 2000 07:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Theo, Great band, great compositions/improvisations... Amazing guitarist. I had the luck to play with Tim Young, and while I've found my trumpet doesn't match up with guitarists that easily, he has the golden ear. He can comp immediately, and has an almost spaztic, splendid rhythmic intuition. Look for his work with Eyvind Kang in Chunky Wedgies if you can find it, or recently with Dying Ground if its out there. Also, Wayne did some work with Reggie Watts (keyboard) that is good to the ear. andydiaz --- Theo Klaase wrote: > Wayne Horvitz's latest album "American > Bandstand" > is quite amazing. His compositions seem to be > getting > much stronger as the years pass by. This album > features the Zony Mash band in an acoustic setting > with beautiful melodies flying all over the place. > I've got all 3 Zony Mash recordings, but this album > is > stronger that all of them... although it's not > considered a Zony Mash release really. > > ===== > -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, > hello milky > way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from > anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: taj Date: 10 Oct 2000 11:11:43 -0500 Friedrich: I heard a Taj Mahal concert in Berlin last thursday and was quite dissapointed about the boaring performance with a lausy guitarplayer in a low quality blues band. yeah, taj mahal travellers is what the previous poster meant, but let me step in on behalf of the other taj. his blues band stuff is maybe his best known, which is a shame because it is easily his least interesting (something like james blood's dichotomy). live and solo he's at his best, meandering, losing key and tempo, and then finding a familiar groove again. he can be almost fahey like in his expansive explorations of folk themes. he's done more good records than i can name here, and more boring records than i know the names of, but generally his earlier records are probably better. the natch'l blues, the ol' folks at home, the real thing. the disc that came out with toumani diabate(sp) a couple years back is really, really sweet. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: taj Date: 10 Oct 2000 11:23:37 -0400 (EDT) IMHO some of Taj's best work is as a "sideman" on two cuts of Bob Stewart's Then & Now on Postcards. Of course the rest of ther session is pretty good too since Bob is one of the best modern tuba players. Ken Waxman --- kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: but let me step in > on behalf of the other taj. his blues band stuff is > maybe his best known, which > is a shame because it is easily his least > interesting. he's done > more good records than i > can name here, and more boring records than i know > the names of, but generally > his earlier records are probably better. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: jon rose/alvin curran Date: 10 Oct 2000 11:23:23 -0500 my fascination with jon rose multiplied fourfold last weekend when i saw his duet with alvin curran at tonic. i've got a half dozen or more records, many the great "radio play" things he produces, but i've never seen a great gig with him before. (once with an uninspired pick-up band and once at the old alterknit where he and the sound guy were fighting so much that rose threw a chair across the stage and the sound guy turned on the lights, ending the set. the sound was horrible, too. gotta love the knit.) rose is just such a great violinist, from his bowed lines to feedback loops and heavy distortion. curran set up a wide array of sampled settings for rose to react to and contend with, which he always did with dexterity and some humor. curran, unfortunately, was pretty boring, repeating himself, not seeming to lead anywhere and not seeming to listen to rose. i got the impression that a few times rose was trying to introduce quiet segments, but curran plowed along, eyes closed, pounding out his car screeches and broken glass and whatnot. rose is playing at tonic weds and sat and at roulette the following sat, for anyone in the nyc area. also caught david watson's guitar army, another part of the 2-week 'strung festival' rose is curating at tonic. watson on guitar (no bagpipes) with dean roberts, alan licht, david first, roger klier and a fellow whose name i didn't get. really nice, heavy overtones with turns soloing. pretty ethereal -- watson was the only one who kicked the overtones into overdrive. ok, since i'm talking, tronzo trio at the cooler last night. tronzo is so great, all three of them are (stomu takeishi on bass and kenny wollenson on drums). he said they have a new disc coming out around the end of the year, too. kg np: john fahey - the return of the repressed - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: unheard music Date: 10 Oct 2000 11:30:56 -0500 oh, yeah, and someone asked about atavistic's new unheard music releases. i'll be reviewing them for the paper here sometime soon, but here's a quick rundown. han bennink - nerve beats: han's solo stuff doesn't always work. this one does. i guess it's some of his earlier forays into expanding his ideas of percussion (it's from 1973). very enjoyable. sven-ake johansson - schlingerland/dynamische schwingungen: this is what you fear from a solo drum record. prolonged sonic experiments that never go anywhere and kind of amount to so many minutes of undeveloped rumble. maybe innovative in 1972, but bored me. i think i recall someone here praising it, tho. leo cuypers - heavy days are here again: the title says it all. great stuff. w/ willem breuker, han bennink and arjen gorter. nachtluft - belle-view i-iv: pretty interesting electroacoustic inventions from 1986. need to listen more. schlippenbach quartet - hunting the snake: a little more on the traditional theme-oriented side, but strong playing from evan parker, peter kowald and paul lovens. not as exciting, i guess, as the cuypers title, to compare the two jazz group releases. haven't heard the joe mcphee from this series, but it sounds interesting. opinions? kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Shugg" Subject: flamenco (no Zorn) Date: 10 Oct 2000 15:36:32 GMT Since reading the section about Flamenco in Derek Bailey's book on improvisation, I've been trying to track down some good recordings - particularly Flamenco guitar. Any suggestions for a slightly overwhelmed list-member just back from a bewildering trip to local large record store? I _have_ found one excellent older recording - Paco Ibanez performing songs based on poems by Lorca (picked up at Crocodisc in Paris, my personal record-buying mecca. Never bewildering.) thanks, Kristy ------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re[2]: taj Date: 10 Oct 2000 11:36:11 -0500 Iwaxman'sHO: some of Taj's best work is as a "sideman" on two cuts of Bob Stewart's Then & Now on Postcards. Of course the rest of ther session is pretty good too since Bob is one of the best modern tuba player wow, no agreement here. stewart is great, and shows up as part of the tuba quartet on taj's 'the real thing' (which has just been reissued on cd). his playing with lester bowie's brass fantasy and in a sadly unrecorded duo with the great dave burrell is stellar. but the postcards disc i just found boring and uninspired. oh well. kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Tim Young with Eyvind Kang Date: 10 Oct 2000 15:56:34 GMT Hey, >Look for his work with Eyvind Kang in Chunky Wedgies if you can find >it, What's this? Who else is in this band and did they release anything? Is there a Eyvind Kang discography somewhere? ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Tim Sparks Date: 10 Oct 2000 15:59:16 GMT Hello, Has anybody heard the new Tim Sparks CD on tzadik? The first one was amazing, one of the best solo guitar discs I have ever heard. And respect to Tim for releasing on Tzadik. I see he also has some releases on what seems to be kind of New-Age labels, where I'm sure he could make a lot more money. ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: flamenco (no Zorn) Date: 10 Oct 2000 18:42:40 +0200 I'm not deeply into flamenco these days, but if I remember well what I heard, I would not call Paco Iba=F1ez music flamenco.... even if it has some flamenco influences at times... But I may be wrong. Well.... among the few flamenco artists I've heard, I would recommend: For instrumental flamenco (guitar solo): - Pedro Soler. Thoughtful, modern flamenco guitarist. Everything but flashy, a lot of personality and of harmonic invention... He has a few albums on the french label "Al Sur", including a really worthwhile album called "Sombras" (seems to be easy to found). - Paco De Lucia "Siroco". Much more flashy, of course, but this album is his closest to Flamenco Puro, and his best IMHO. I still love it after all these years. Impressive AND good. (should be found everywhere). But, because the real expression of flamenco is not instrumental, but also sung, I would also recommend: - Guitarist Pedro Bacan. He has several albums out, whether accompanying Ines Bacan (voc), ("De viva voz", on the label ETHNIC) or with his whole family, singing, dancing, clapping hands and shouting at times ("Pedro Bacan et le clan des Pinini en public =E0 Bobigny" on the label Pee Wee). - Flamenco legend Camaron (voc) has also some nice albums, with Tomatito on guitar ("Flamenco Vivo" -Polygram Spain- is great and should be available everywhere). Other renowned guistarists (I don't really know) are:=20 - in the tradition: Ramon Montoya, Paco Pe=F1a... =20 - experimenting with jazz/rock/world: Tomatito, Sabicas.... Other renowned singers: Agujetas, Chocolate, Ines Bacan... So, that was my personnal list: Pedro Bacan, Pedro Soler, Paco De Lucia, Camaron w/Tomatito... I hope someone will come with other suggestions and even complaints about this list, as I would like to know more about the flamenco masters, too. Pascal. (np: nothing, but this morning I had Lakshmi Shankar "Les heures et les saisons" -Ocora-) =20 At 15:36 10/10/00 GMT, Kristy Shugg wrote: >Since reading the section about Flamenco in Derek Bailey's book on=20 >improvisation, I've been trying to track down some good recordings -=20 >particularly Flamenco guitar. Any suggestions for a slightly overwhelmed= =20 >list-member just back from a bewildering trip to local large record store? > >I _have_ found one excellent older recording - Paco Ibanez performing songs= =20 >based on poems by Lorca (picked up at Crocodisc in Paris, my personal=20 >record-buying mecca. Never bewildering.) > >thanks, >Kristy > >------------- > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at=20 >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: pfMENTUM Newsletter dies... Date: 10 Oct 2000 10:12:40 -0700 ...but is born again as NewCreativeMusic.com http://www.newcreativemusic.com/ Our "first" issue is out now and features Keith McMullen "interviewing" Han Bennink, Jeff Kaiser discussing hierarchy, and CD reviews of Tobias Delius, Han Bennink, Crib, Adam Lane, Todd Sickafoose, HIM and more... For the full scoop read the following press release: _________________ Non Servium Mentum ***************** Dear pfMENTUMites: The pfMENTUM Newsletter is evolving into a new format with a new name and a broader scope and purpose. From the home page of our new website, NewCreativeMusic.com: "This web site is dedicated to the furthering of New Creative Music, while remembering and honoring its lineage. More specifically, we are a forum to support, promote, and encourage underrepresented forms of music such as creative improvised, creative composed music, and electro-acoustic music. We wish to provide an environment which will be an outlet and resource for knowledgeable listeners, educational for new listeners, and provide resources for artists." We wish to accomplish this by: 1) Interviews and CD reviews posted by users and "staff." 2) Bibliography of books and magazines. 3) User posted concert announcements and reviews. 4) Discussion about the aesthetics of this music. 5) Building an excellent database of links about artists, venues, record labels, etc. It is just getting started. Any help with additional linkage, recommended reading, submission of relevant articles and interviews, etc., would be helpful. Contact email: admin@pfmentum.com Our address: http://www.newcreativemusic.com/ Thanks, Jeff and Keith -- jeff@pfmentum.com keith@pfmentum.com http://www.pfmentum.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Ong Subject: Re: unheard music Date: 10 Oct 2000 13:26:57 -0400 > oh, yeah, and someone asked about atavistic's new unheard music releases. i'll > be reviewing them for the paper here sometime soon, but here's a quick > rundown. I had been waiting for someone to comment on these, so thank you Kurt. So far I've only had a chance to listen to "nerve beats" (very rambunctious) and "hunting the snake". The schlippenbach record is ok, perhaps I lose interest after a half hour or so, but it certainly has some great moments. Favorite parts are when one or two of the players suddenly just drop out and Parker is left to respond quickly. I'd like to hear more about that nachtluft record. Is it improv? I seem to be buying more records than I have time to listen to these days, but I have gotten around to "When Angels Speak of Love" and the FSA/White Winged Moth/Main Mort Aux Vaches disc. I know there's no need for me to plug this, but the Sun Ra disc is lovely, ending with a near-20 minute "next stop mars" track. Gilmore's soloing is magnificent in general as well. The FSA/Main/WWM disc is very laid-back with a kind of glacial drift feel. 6 tracks in total, 4 from FSA which basically amount to sad contemplative acoustic guitar playing over soft drone. The Dean Roberts track is what I expected, that shimmering guitar tinkle, like crystals vibrating really fast. The Main track is the real standout though -- very musique concrete sounding, reminded me of some pierre henri compositions. -eric. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Fans of Wayne Horvitz? Date: 10 Oct 2000 14:32:38 -0400 I agree. I like the acoustic record. But I have to gripe a little. Why is zony mash getting so low key these days? They seem to almost half-time the music and play really mellow. I remember the fist record where they were uptempo a lot of the time. I'm referring to reccent live performances, mainly. Dan Hewins At 3:59 AM -0700 10/10/00, Theo Klaase wrote: > Wayne Horvitz's latest album "American Bandstand" >is quite amazing. His compositions seem to be getting >much stronger as the years pass by. This album >features the Zony Mash band in an acoustic setting >with beautiful melodies flying all over the place. >I've got all 3 Zony Mash recordings, but this album is >stronger that all of them... although it's not >considered a Zony Mash release really. > >===== >-That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky >way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! >http://mail.yahoo.com/ > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Main/Comae (was unheard music) Date: 10 Oct 2000 14:52:03 EDT In a message dated 10/10/00 2:43:01 PM, eso200@earthlink.net writes: << The Main track is the real standout though -- very musique concrete sounding, reminded me of some pierre henri compositions. >> Robert Hampson, who is (was?) Main, played NYC last weekend in his new duo=20 project with turntablist Janek Schaefer, Comae. I saw them in the Knitactive= =20 Sound Stage on Saturday night, and as always in that space, I was treated to= =20 a basically private show (3 other people there). great space for fans,=20 terrible for musicians.=20 anyway, they were very good, they both had synths hooked up into each other=20 and were creating soundscapes not too far from Main, but filled with lots of= =20 subtle electronic clicks and glitches. they have a CD out very soon on Rhiz.= =20 the rest of their North American tour dates: Oct 10th: Cleveland - Speak In Tongues Oct 11th: Chicago - The Empty Bottle Oct 12th: Chicago - Chicago Arts Institute Oct 14th: Detroit - Detroit Contemporary Gallery=20 Oct 15th: Toronto - Ted's Wrecking Yard Oct 16th: Montreal - Ex-Centris FCMM Festival=20 Oct 20th: Winnipeg - Send & Receive Festival [performance + Installation with Martin T=E9treault] Jon=20 www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcizon@800.com Subject: Tim Sparks Date: 10 Oct 2000 11:55:11 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C032EB.9E2D4F1D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you liked Neshamah, then you'll definitely enjoy Tanz. Although Sparks continues down familiar stylistic avenues, with Greg Cohen and Cyro on board the album doesn't devolve into a rehash of previously stated ideas. Very beautiful, dynamic, and overall quite mellow. Also like Neshamah, it walks the fine border of new age music, but doesn't seem to be caught up in the "baggage" (if you will) of that genre. This ain't no Ottmar, thank G-d! Murray ------_=_NextPart_001_01C032EB.9E2D4F1D Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim Sparks

If you liked Neshamah, then you'll definitely enjoy = Tanz. Although Sparks continues down familiar stylistic avenues, with = Greg Cohen and Cyro on board the album doesn't devolve into a rehash of = previously stated ideas. Very beautiful, dynamic, and overall quite = mellow. Also like Neshamah, it walks the fine border of new age music, = but doesn't seem to be caught up in the "baggage" (if you = will) of that genre. This ain't no Ottmar, thank G-d!

Murray

------_=_NextPart_001_01C032EB.9E2D4F1D-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Main/Comae (was unheard music) Date: 10 Oct 2000 14:57:42 -0400 I just saw Comae last night (opening for Godspeed You Black Emperor!) and they were _very_ impressive. Great sculptural sense of sound, and I thought the subsonic stuff was ingenious and amusing--great timing. Well worth checking out. GYBE were really good, too, but Bardo Pond did little for me. If it's any consolation about the number of people who saw them in NYC, there was a hell of a turnout for GBYE last night, so a lot of people got to see Comae... -Maurice At 2:52 PM -0400 10/10/00, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: >Robert Hampson, who is (was?) Main, played NYC last weekend in his new duo >project with turntablist Janek Schaefer, Comae. I saw them in the Knitactive >Sound Stage on Saturday night, and as always in that space, I was treated to >a basically private show (3 other people there). great space for fans, >terrible for musicians. > -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: flamenco (no Zorn) Date: 10 Oct 2000 15:00:26 EDT Ryko has (had?) an excellent V.A. compilation of new flamenco artists, I think was titled _The New Flamenco_ , but don't carve that title into stone. I remember the front cover had a picture of a young-looking guy with a red-colored derby atop his dome, with guitar in hand. Worth looking for, IMO. -- np: The Clayton Brothers- Siblingity (pretty much straight-ahead bop with a swing-type approach) =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: re: traditional greek music Date: 10 Oct 2000 15:05:50 EDT Speaking of Greek music, do any of you know Floros Floridis? I saw him play in Detroit with Peter Kowald and Gunter Sommer for the first time last spring and it was amazing. He plays a free jazz that is totally informed by traditional Greek music forms. I tracked down one of his records, with Kowald and a lyre player Ilios Papadopoulos, on the Greek Ano Kato label (CAdence had it) and it is one eerie mindbender. Jerry B. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: Wayne / Zony Date: 10 Oct 2000 15:14:02 -0400 On the subject of Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash, Theo wrote: Wayne Horvitz's latest album "American Bandstand" is quite amazing.... ...This album features the Zony Mash=20 band in an acoustic setting...... although it's not considered=20 a Zony Mash release really." I'm a huge fan of "American Bandstand" disc, as well as "4+1 Ensemble,"=20 "Monolouge" and Pigpen's "Miss Ann" discs too. Any recommendations=20 for a Zony album from any Zornsters out there? Happy listening=20 Bob Recommendation of the day from own humble self: Suzi Lee: "Blue" (singer from Boston band Slide went solo, singing sultry = French over a theramin!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Fans of Wayne Horvitz? Date: 10 Oct 2000 12:57:16 -0700 >I agree. I like the acoustic record. But I have to gripe a little. I just got the acoustic CD last weekend when Wayne & co. were in town. I really like it, absolutely beutiful recording and performance. > >Why is zony mash getting so low key these days? They seem to almost >half-time the music and play really mellow. I remember the fist >record where they were uptempo a lot of the time. I'm referring to >reccent live performances, mainly. > Thats wierd, because my perspective has been that the later records, particularly "Upper Egypt", have gotten mellower, while the live shows are getting wilder. When I saw them here in Corvallis last Saturday, they were perhaps the most consistantly intense of the probably 8-10 times I've seen the band, Andy Roth in particular was wilder than I've ever seen. >Dan Hewins > > > > >At 3:59 AM -0700 10/10/00, Theo Klaase wrote: >> Wayne Horvitz's latest album "American Bandstand" >>is quite amazing. His compositions seem to be getting >>much stronger as the years pass by. This album >>features the Zony Mash band in an acoustic setting >>with beautiful melodies flying all over the place. >>I've got all 3 Zony Mash recordings, but this album is >>stronger that all of them... although it's not >>considered a Zony Mash release really. >> >>===== >>-That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky >>way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! >>http://mail.yahoo.com/ >> >>- > > >- ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: AMM gig? Date: 10 Oct 2000 06:51:06 -0700 #;*4ould some kind soul repost the info for the show in Boston. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: cool your jets, fogies Date: 10 Oct 2000 10:53:40 +0200 > meanwhile, i'm now reading celine and spent last night and this morning >> which one? > journey to the end of the night. didn't they base an afternoon drama serial on > this book? ?!!! What is an afternoon drama serial? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM gig? Date: 10 Oct 2000 16:40:59 EDT In a message dated 10/10/00 4:37:37 PM, punkjazz@snet.net writes: << would some kind soul repost the info for the show in Boston. >> http://members.aol.com/Tautology3/Fest00sched.html Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: cool your jets, fogies Date: 10 Oct 2000 16:59:42 -0500 not really. sorry. i just think i'm funny. it would be good, though, wouldn't it? journey to the edge of night? misanthropy in the afternoon? kg np: the dukes of stratosphear - chips from the chocolate fireball _______________________________________________________________________________ > meanwhile, i'm now reading celine and spent last night and this morning >> which one? > journey to the end of the night. didn't they base an afternoon drama serial on > this book? ?!!! What is an afternoon drama serial? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: unsilent night 12/14 nyc Date: 10 Oct 2000 17:05:09 -0500 allo -- i've never gone to one of phil kline's seasonal boombox symphonies, but i'm planning to go this year. just got this msg from him. i've seen him perform boombox pieces in the past, though. they're always fun. hey, maybe this would be a good night for a zornlist/nyc happy hour as well (especially since KISS doesn't seem to be announcing anything...) as he says below, if you want to participate, get on the website and rsvp so he knows how many will be there. >>> hi, we'll be starting at near the arch in washington square at 7pm on sat dec 16. if you want to bring a boombox, let me know so i will have enough tapes for everybody. (and tell friends, the more the better.) thanks, phil there is also an unsilent night page on my website at http://www.mindspring.com/~boombox/xmas.htm > From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com > Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:22:32 -0500 > To: > Subject: boom before xmas - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: unsilent night 12/14 nyc Date: 10 Oct 2000 17:22:31 EDT this is actually the night of 12/16, not 12/14, as it says lower in the message, just so there's no confusion. anyone who's around for this might want to drop by Experimental Intermedia the following afternoon to see the first (and last?) performance of my DJing career, along with my friend Mike Goodstein. admission's either $4.99 or free, not sure. description follows: Jon Abbey and Michael Goodstein DJ Sunday, 3 to 11pm 17 A listening experience comprised of carefully selected pieces from all corners of the globe, both current and historical, and programmed specifically to take full advantage of the superb EI audio system; at times, multiple selections will be playing simultaneously; curated by Jon Abbey of Erstwhile Records and Michael Goodstein of WFMU Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: traditional greek music Date: 10 Oct 2000 18:11:37 EDT In a message dated 00-10-10 15:07:00 EDT, you write: >Speaking of Greek music, do any of you know Floros Floridis? I saw him play >in Detroit with Peter Kowald and Gunter Sommer for the first time last spring >and it was amazing. He plays a free jazz that is totally informed by >traditional Greek music forms. I tracked down one of his records, with >Kowald and a lyre player Ilios Papadopoulos, on the Greek Ano Kato label >(CAdence had it) and it is one eerie mindbender. And to continue "speaking of Greek music," if anyone has any leads on duo recordings (with or without other musicians) by bouzouki players Kostas Papadopoulos and L. Karnezi (actually, even if you know of recordings by either of them without the other), please let me know. This is an extraordinary duo, in terms of the sound they produce and their facility. They do mainly traditional Greek music. Outside Greece, they are best known for their work on the Theodorakis early-60s soundtrack to Zorba the Greek (the movie, not the b'way play). Though they are well-known in Greece, documentation on Greek recordings is often terrible, and so it is hard to track down their recordings. Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Kirchmer" Subject: Re: Fans of Wayne Horvitz?/Friend of Tim Young + Tim Young with Eyvind Kang Date: 10 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0700 > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:25:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: Andy Diaz > Subject: Re: Fans of Wayne Horvitz?/Friend of Tim Young > > Theo, > > Great band, great compositions/improvisations... > > Amazing guitarist. I had the luck to play with Tim > Young, and while I've found my trumpet doesn't match > up with guitarists that easily, he has the golden ear. > He can comp immediately, and has an almost spaztic, > splendid rhythmic intuition. Look for his work with > Eyvind Kang in Chunky Wedgies if you can find it, or > recently with Dying Ground if its out there. > > Also, Wayne did some work with Reggie Watts (keyboard) > that is good to the ear. > andydiaz hi from Seattle - first, as far as CHUNKY WEDGIES goes, they put out a tape that is out of print (Eyvind probably has the master - and good luck finding it, it is VERY rare.....mainly just sold at shows, etc.) and were bootlegged in concert numerous times by a few die hard "tapers" around here...... also, according to Tim, his work with Dying Ground has not been part of any official album releases yet - but he said it is quite possible that they will put together and release some of the stuff they've got in the can later this year or so.... secondly, the work Wayne has done with Reggie Watts (of "Maktub" and "Slow Ride" - two Seattle-based bands...) is indeed great. The band is called: WAYNE HORVITZ's 4+1 ENSEMBLE. also in the band is Eyvind Kang, Julian Priester (trombone, ex-Sun Ra, ex-Duke Ellington, longtime master....), and Tucker Martine on processing (he taps into everyone's signal as needed....he is an omniscient effects overseer, so to speak) and electronics/effects (I love it when he makes Wayne's piano sound like it's emanating off a scratchy 78....) Lastly, having just spoken to Tim Young (yes, I agree, he is indeed an amazing player, really confident & coming into his own right now.....) today regarding some booking issues for his *fabulous* VERY SPECIAL FORCES band (after reading the above email) I am happy to pass along a heartfelt "HI THERE" (from Tim to Andy Diaz) LASTLY - some regional NW USA SHOW NEWS: (fwd it to friends!) ALL YOU FOLKS Livin' 'ROUND SEATTLE NOTE AS WELL that Tim Young's VERY SPECIAL FORCES band will be playing a very special concert on Friday, October 20th at The Rainbow (722 NE 45th St., near I-5 - only $6!!!). Fans of The Boredoms, Naked City, Zappa, and Ween take note of VERY SPECIAL FORCES as they combine wild vocals (singer Brad Mowen used to do Yamatsuka Eye's parts whenever Wayne Horvitz decided it was time for a Seattle based Naked City tribute set.....while his band PIGPEN was active.....) and STELLAR, ***ROCKIN'*** musicianship with a healthy & crazy sense of humor. Nearly anything goes. The end results are HIGHLY entertaining. (they do a nice version of "In My Room" btw....by B. Wilson) If you don't live around here, check out their budding website at www.veryspecialforces.com - (mp3's!!!) & note as well that the opening act on 10/20 is "Honey" - a new band that features all of Very Special Forces (minus the drummer, Evan Schiller, formerly of Sadhappy - replaced by Andy Roth of Zony Mash) backing two female singers. (wacky pop stuff....) - Speaking of Zony Mash, they played the Rainbow on Sun 10/8 - a good show - do NOT miss these guys next time they tour, they are totally on top of their shit - and kickin' ass LIVE.... Lastly, the following night, Sat. Oct. 21st, note that Eyvind & Tim Young play the Rainbow yet again - with a surreal seventies- -influenced avant-hare-krishna trance-breeze-pop cafe-improv cult called: LOS PARASITOS ("the parasites" in spanish) Eyvind sings and plays acoustic guitar in this band - and it stars, once again, most of Very Special Forces - and a few groupies. ***note that they open for Nausea Trois, featuring saxophonist Skerik, bassist Paul Hinklin (ex-Sadhappy), and drummer Mike Stone (ex-Pigpen, currently with Skerik in Crack Sabbath - also may be joining "Thee Old Codgers" - led by Danny Barnes.) > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:56:34 GMT > From: "Arthur Gadney" > Subject: Tim Young with Eyvind Kang > > Is there a Eyvind Kang discography somewhere? Not that I know of. Have you bought his latest on Tzadik yet? ("Story of Iceland" or something like that......) Heard it at a friend's house, really dig it. Ciao for now, JLK - Seattle, WA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Kirchmer jamesk@telisphere.com 1008 E. Republican St., #3 Seattle, WA 98102-5018 322-1783 (H) 664-1086 (Fax) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fela Anikulapo Kuti = "He who emanates greatness, who has control over death, & who cannot be killed by man." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Kirchmer" Subject: Re: Wayne / Zony + Fans of Wayne Horvitz Date: 10 Oct 2000 16:47:52 -0700 > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:14:02 -0400 > From: "Bob Kowalski" > Subject: Wayne / Zony > > On the subject of Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash, Theo wrote: > Wayne Horvitz's latest album "American Bandstand" > is quite amazing.... ...This album features the Zony Mash > band in an acoustic setting...... although it's not considered > a Zony Mash release really." > > I'm a huge fan of "American Bandstand" disc, as well as "4+1 Ensemble," > "Monolouge" and Pigpen's "Miss Ann" discs too. Any recommendations > for a Zony album from any Zornsters out there? I recommend you start w/"Upper Egypt" - their companion piece to "American Bandstand" (both of these are the first "Zony Mash" records to feature their second bass player Keith Lowe, one of the finest bassists *in the world*, and one of Bill Frisell's latest recruits). In fact, Keith has joined forces with Bill's banjo teacher/collaborator, the Bad Livers' Danny Barnes, & will be releasing an entire album of Frisell compositions - as played by himself, Danny, & fiddle master Jon Parry (ex-John Hartford's Goosecreek Symphony) This acoustic trio is called "Thee Old Codgers" - keep an eye out for their stuff! (nothing has yet been released) - and Keith Lowe also plays in an electric quartet "Thee Heathen" w/Danny Barnes on electric guitar instead of banjo, Dan Tyack (ex-Asleep at the Wheel) on a RIPPIN' pedal steel (this guy shreds!), Keith on electric bass instead of upright acoustic, & Andy Roth from Zony on drums. So back to Zony: after ya buy "Upper Egypt," pick up some of their recent bootlegs and their first two Cd's (w/Fred Chalenor on bass).....they are playing consistently well night after night (such as on their latest, just completed West coast tour..... .......according to Wayne - and he's his harshest critic......) these days, and most of the boots are a subsequently helluvalota fun to hear (esp. consid. the high qual. of boots these days) FYI: to buy the first couple of Zony Cd's visit www.zonymash.com and to buy or get info on Danny Barnes' great stuff visit www.dannybarnes.com > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:57:16 -0700 > From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) > Subject: Re: Fans of Wayne Horvitz? > > >Why is zony mash getting so low key these days? They seem to almost > >half-time the music and play really mellow. I remember the fist > >record where they were uptempo a lot of the time. I'm referring to > >reccent live performances, mainly. > > Thats wierd, because my perspective has been that the later records, > particularly "Upper Egypt", have gotten mellower, while the live shows are > getting wilder. When I saw them here in Corvallis last Saturday, they were > perhaps the most consistantly intense of the probably 8-10 times I've seen > the band, Andy Roth in particular was wilder than I've ever seen. You are absolutely correct. And "intense" is a good word. I'll take "intense" over "uptempo" anyday. Zony's live shows have always featured some of Wayne's mellower compositions. Basically, the records are not a good indicator as far as the live shows go. I saw the band's first batch of performances back in late 1995 and have seen nearly every one of their hometown shows since then - and the band has never sounded better. They are totally ontop of their game. (their slow tunes have a burning intensity these days that often surpasses that of their fast tunes back when they were starting out!) And a heads up: Zony Mash is playing four nights in November at Seattle's OK Hotel (these are their next shows) - the first two nights are w/out guests, and the second two with a horn section (IMNSHO the shows without guests are the ones to see......) Also: a December Seattle show and tour is also in the works.....stay tuned.... Best regards, JLK - Seattle, WA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Kirchmer jamesk@telisphere.com 1008 E. Republican St., #3 Seattle, WA 98102-5018 322-1783 (H) 664-1086 (Fax) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fela Anikulapo Kuti = "He who emanates greatness, who has control over death, & who cannot be killed by man." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustavo Broggi" Subject: RE: Chango Spasiuk Date: 10 Oct 2000 21:24:54 -0300 Hi Folks, I strongly agree with Hugo´s comments; I can aso recommend the Chango´s latest cd called "Chamame Crudo", it is also in Acqua, and in this record he plays Chamame, schotis, polkas and all this kind of music which is representative of the north-east area of our country, of course they are refreshed by Chango´s musical ideas, which normally are great! Best Gustavo -----Mensaje original----- De: Hugo Linares Para: olewnik@idt.net ; Zorn-list Fecha: Lunes 9 de Octubre de 2000 18:38 Asunto: RE: Chango Spasiuk >Hi Brian and rest of Listmembers, > > > >>Love this guy's work on Cyro Baptista's Avant release. According to AMG, >>he's got a disc called "Polkas di Mi Tierra", which I'm guessing means >>it's made up of Brazilian polkas. I need to hear this! Is anyone able to >>provide further descriptions? Thanks. Um, I'm assuming Chango's a guy >>from the pic in the Baptista disc, but I'm not absolutely sure, having >>never encountered any Chango's and given the photo's vagueness. I'm also >>assuming, surname notwithstanding, that (s)he's Brazilian. >> >>Brian Olewnick >> >>- >> > >Spasiuk is a brilliant accordion player, who deserves a wider recognition. >"Polcas >de mi Tierra" was released on Acqua Records last year, and it's a fine and >rewarding recording. >Liner notes refers to "Polcas..." as "a reassesment of a century of Ucranian >immigrants folkmusic as seen within cultural context of the Province of >Misiones". >Spasiuk was born in a small city called Apostoles, Province of Misiones and >he says that Polcas "incorporates current and esential melodies from my home >and land. They are part of the unwritten history of our regional music, and >of the present of our regional music. It is my personal vision of the man >and woman who inhabit the farmstead: humble, and with a deep spirituality, >joy and tenderness." > >Don't miss this record because it's fantastic and superb. >You will get some information (Spanish, sorry) at: www.changospasiuk.com.ar > >If you can get the CD, please let me know privately and I'll manage. > >Hope this helps. > > >Hugo Linares > > > > > > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: tantalizing rzewski tidbit... Date: 11 Oct 2000 01:58:51 -0500 ... the man himself was at the Nonesuch offices in Manhattan on Tuesday afternoon, finalizing the details for an upcoming 6 CD boxset. Don't ask me more right now... that's all I know. And it's for real. But I'll try to find out more. ...drool... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Jussi Bjorling, "Ah si, ben mio" (from Verdi's 'Il Trovatore'), 'Opera Arias' (Naxos Historical) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: tantalizing rzewski tidbit... Date: 11 Oct 2000 02:07:11 EDT In a message dated 10/11/00 2:01:37 AM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << ... the man himself was at the Nonesuch offices in Manhattan on Tuesday afternoon, finalizing the details for an upcoming 6 CD boxset. >> cool! I can't recall if it's been mentioned here that Mr. Rzewski is playing shows this week at the Jazz Gallery, 290 Hudson St., between Spring and Dominick. Shows are Wednesday and Thursday at 9:00, tix are $15. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Frisell (Odp: Wayne / Zony + Fans of Wayne Horvitz) Date: 11 Oct 2000 09:00:13 +0200 > "American Bandstand" (both of these are the first "Zony Mash" records to > feature their second bass player Keith Lowe, one of the finest bassists > *in the world*, and one of Bill Frisell's latest recruits). In fact, Keith > has joined forces with Bill's banjo teacher/collaborator, the Bad Livers' > Danny Barnes, & will be releasing an entire album of Frisell compositions - > as played by himself, Danny, & fiddle master Jon Parry > (ex-John Hartford's Goosecreek Symphony) Could you send some more info (Label? Which compositions?)? And what is Frisell up to recently? I know he toured Europe with Sex Mob's section this summer, and Steve Smith wrote a few months ago that a trio album with Elvin Jones and Dave Holland is supposed to be out in January (yes, we're still waiting...). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: TV version of 'voyage au bout de la nuit ' Date: 11 Oct 2000 09:25:45 +0200 Kurt wrote: > not really. sorry. i just think i'm funny. it would be good, though, wouldn't > it? journey to the edge of night? misanthropy in the afternoon? The idea of a TV version IS funny... Imagine a family eating supper ... KID: "Dad, dad, the thing about the doctor and this Robinsosn begins... i couldn't watch it yesterday... What was it about?" DAD: "Yesterday... Didn't we have the one about the girl who was dying from a badly made abortion, and doctor Bardamu came, and told to get her to the hospital. But mother kept walking around and saying 'Shame, shame.. we cannot take her to the hospital' . So he just took the money and left, and she died" KID: "No, that one we had on Sunday!" MOM: "Oh, i remember. Yesterday we had the one about the doctor's neighbours. Really strange ones. They used attach their small girl to a chair and shout at her and beat her before they copulate... And the girl was like: 'Hit me mom... just stop shouting at me'. It was nice." KID: "It must 've been great... Maybe Tom recorded the whole thing" (and they all eat while watching the next episode) Wouldn't it be nice? ;-) How do like the book? Isn't it great? If you like it, try 'death on installment plan' (mort a credit). It's quite a bit better IMVHO. More stylistically developped. More madness. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Frisell (Odp: Wayne / Zony + Fans of Wayne Horvitz) Date: 11 Oct 2000 09:36:18 +0200 Hi all, At 09:00 11/10/00 +0200, Marcin Gokieli wrote: > And what is Frisell up to recently?=20 You can track down his upcoming albums on the "upcomping releases" section of the jazzmatazz website (http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/upcomingjazzreleases.html): "Year 2001 [and beyond] * Bill Frisell TBD (Nonesuch) 2001 =97 With his new quartet plus Curtis Fowlkes and Ron Miles. (more details at= : http://livedaily.com/news/434.html) * Bill Frisell TBD (Nonesuch) late 2001 =97 With Dave Holland and Elvin Jones. " For more info on Bill Frisell, you can also explore: http://www.emd.pl/emd/en4/index.htm you will find there a discography and a huge list of links. (incidentally, also on the jazzmatazz site, a new Dave Douglas album with his band Witness is announced: * Dave Douglas Witness (RCA Victor) June 2001? =97 Dave Douglas (t), Chris Speed (ts,cl), Joshua Roseman (tr), Erik Friedlander (clo), Mark Feldman (v), Bryan Carrott (vibes,marimba), Drew Gress (b), Ikue Mori (perc), Michael Sarin (dr).) Pascal (np: Iva Bittova, "Bile Inferno") - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: Main/Comae (was unheard music) Date: 11 Oct 2000 09:43:43 GMT+0100 > > Robert Hampson, who is (was?) Main, played NYC last weekend in his new duo > project with turntablist Janek Schaefer, Comae. > anyway, they were very good, they both had synths hooked up into each other > and were creating soundscapes not too far from Main, but filled with lots of > subtle electronic clicks and glitches. they have a CD out very soon on Rhiz. Oh yes, these guys are absolutely fabulous. They create a real exiting mix of acousmatic and 'glitchy' sounds and have a constant tension in their pieces. I received a promo of their upcoming album a couple of months ago, and it's already one of my favourite releases of this year. Check it out if you have the chance! Jeroen Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: Re: traditional greek music Date: 11 Oct 2000 13:10:51 +0200 (DST) Brian wrote: <> So this makes me a Greek Geek. thanks Brian! On the music now, P.L.Chalkias is really suberb and a bit heavy-traditional, Chris Speed is crazy about the Chalkias family (father and son are clarinet masters). Floridis is my favorite player, I have posted on him in the past, I am glad to see some people know him, his recordings with the FLORINA BRASS BAND are also great, traditional, full-throttle brass music, with some nice soloing, especially live. His quartet WUTU WUPATU is also great, in the same vein but more jazzy, sort of a greek equivalent to MASADA maybe? He played often in the past with German people, he can also be heard on a beautiful duo with Kowald on an FMP record. Most of his records in Greece are on ANO KATO records if anyone tries to track them... manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Filmworks IX? Date: 11 Oct 2000 08:03:12 EDT Has anyone else heard about this being released in November? I can't find any info on the Tzadik site, yet another online CD store has it listed. Anyone? Bueller? Tom ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Rzewski/Nonesuch Date: 11 Oct 2000 08:28:33 -0400 Ach Steve, I'm afraid, by not corralling ol' Frederic, that you've seriously fallen down on your duties! It would be really interesting to know what's up with the potential Nonesuch deal. Since his stuff is scattered over many different labels, it's tempting to think that this set might be re-recordings of earlier pieces by himself. Then again, it could be his "The Road", a collection of piano pieces that is up around 41 by now. Given that Nonesuch is involved and that Rzewski is in his 60's, I guess it might even be safe for the Next Wave Fest to show interest! (a misnomered program if I've ever heard one). Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: knitactive Date: 11 Oct 2000 11:19:52 -0500 jon said: I saw them in the Knitactive= =20 Sound Stage on Saturday night, and as always in that space, I was treated to= =20 a basically private show (3 other people there). great space for fans,=20 terrible for musicians.=20 knitactive doesn't have room for many people very comfortably. do you (or anyone) think that's the reason? seems like it's only included in their display ads some of the time, so maybe that's part of it as well... also, for those interested (or until i can get the new jap psych list to let me on) acid mothers temple are playing at the cooler nov. 9. (dag -- same day as yoko ono at the japan society, ribot solo at the old office, and robert dick at roulette. i can only assume albert ayler will be playing tonic that night.) hmmm, ok, while i'm pluggin, the kitchen house band is doing three nights of compositions by zeena parkins, william parker and roy nathanson 10/26-28 at the kitchen (double check the dates tho, please). on 10/26 (that date i'm sure of) at 3 pm they're doing a dress rehearsal for $5. tix for the eve performances are, like, $20. kg np: purple pain: nine swedish groups tells it all (hardcore prince covers) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: CRI looks for jazz composers Date: 11 Oct 2000 09:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Composers Recordings Incorporated, noted for their releases of new music, usually by living composers, is looking for submissions for a new line of jazz recordings. I'm not affiliated with CRI in any way, but if you're a "jazz" musician and a composer, and you've heard of the label, you might already be making music that'd they'd be interested in. The relevant page is: http://www.composersrecordings.com/jazz.html Sorry for cross-postings. ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Dave Douglas (was Re: Frisell) Date: 11 Oct 2000 13:33:02 -0500 Pascal Cortes wrote: > (incidentally, also on the jazzmatazz site, a new Dave Douglas album wi= th > his band Witness is announced: > > * Dave Douglas Witness (RCA Victor) June 2001? > =97 Dave Douglas (t), Chris Speed (ts,cl), Joshua Roseman (tr), Erik > Friedlander (clo), Mark Feldman (v), Bryan Carrott (vibes,marimba), Dre= w > Gress (b), Ikue Mori (perc), Michael Sarin (dr).) I think that's been changed now. It'll still happen, probably, but later. Dave's third album for RCA is now supposed to be a disc compiling his thr= ee dance suites for the Trisha Brown Dance Company. The first suite, "Five = Part Weather Invention," was originally going to be on the new Charms of the N= ight Sky disc 'A Thousand Evenings,' which was released yesterday. But RCA de= cided that it would be nice to hold the suite for a disc of all three Brown commissions, so Dave was sent back into the studio to record still more n= ew Charms material for 'A Thousand Evenings.' The second Brown suite, "Rapture to Leon James," is played by Dave, Greg Tardy, Greg Cohen and Susie Ibarra, and the third, the name of which I do= n't know, is a sextet which combines Dave, Mark Feldman, Guy Klucevsek, Tardy= , Cohen and Ibarra. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Dave Douglas, "The Branches (Part 2)," 'A Thousand Evenings' (RCA Vi= ctor) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Kirchmer" Subject: Re: Frisell (Odp: Wayne / Zony + Fans of Wayne Horvitz) Date: 11 Oct 2000 12:08:49 -0700 > Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:00:13 +0200 > From: "Marcin Gokieli" > Subject: Frisell (Odp: Wayne / Zony + Fans of Wayne Horvitz) > > From: James Kirchmer > > "American Bandstand" (both of these are the first "Zony Mash" records > > to feature their 2nd bass player Keith Lowe, one of the finest bassists > > *in the world*, and one of Bill Frisell's latest recruits). > > In fact, Keith has joined forces with Bill's banjo teacher/collaborator, > > the Bad Livers' Danny Barnes, & will be releasing an entire album of > > Frisell compositions - as played by himself, Danny, & fiddle master Jon > > Parry (ex-John Hartford's Goosecreek Symphony) > > Could you send some more info (Label? Which compositions?)? > And what is Frisell up to recently? I know he toured Europe w/Sex Mob's > section this summer, and Steve Smith wrote a few months ago that a trio > album with Elvin Jones and Dave Holland is supposed to be out in January > (yes, we're still waiting...). Not sure what the best site for Frisell info is these days - although I used to hit www.songtone.com for info all the time (Lee Townsend's site) and it sure fit the bill pretty good. For info on "Thee Old Codgers" (the band that will eventually be releasing an entire album of Frisell compositions) there are basically 2 sites to bookmark: www.dannybarnes.com www.moonliner.com (Keith Lowe's website) The third wheel in this band, fiddleman Jon Parry, does not yet have a site. This album is a long ways off - basically all parties have agreed to put it out - but have not started work on it yet. Stay tuned to the above sites for details - it's just a matter of time. And lastly, note that Thee Old Codgers are currently touring! They are great - and would appeal to anyone into Frisell's wide-ranging roots-americana-improv leanings. Danny Barnes, as some of you may recall, toured with Frisell last May (1999) as part of "Bill Frisell & the Willies" Here are the tour dates for "Thee Old Codgers" ---> (a GUARANTEED GOOD TIME - they all rip!!!!!!! forward this info to your friends in these towns & they'll thank ya fer sure!) [Danny Barnes:banjo/vocals-Keith Lowe:upright bas -Jon Parry:fiddle] 10.12.00 Madison WI Cafe Montmartre 10.13.00 Milwaukee WI Gil's Cafe 10.14.00 Stephen's Point WI Witz End 10.15.00 Chicago IL In Store at The Record Emporuim, and gig at Schuba's 10.17.00 Columbus OH Little Brother's 10.18.00 Kalamazoo MI In Store at Music Express, & gig at The Kraftbrau Brewery 10.20.00 New York NY Rodeo Bar (CMJ) 10:00PM 10.21.00 Philladelphia PA the Bishop's Collar 10.22.00 Washington DC the Kennedy Center * next up --> a holiday weekend in Seattle: Nov. 24 & 25 @ The Rainbow * (a special acoustic & electric double bill featuring Thee Old Codgers vs. Thee Heathen - each night!!) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Kirchmer jamesk@telisphere.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: [Avant-Garde] Re: CRI looks for jazz composers Date: 11 Oct 2000 15:39:44 -0500 jonabbey2@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/11/00 12:17:12 PM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: > > << Composers Recordings Incorporated, noted for their > releases of new music, usually by living composers, is > looking for submissions for a new line of jazz > recordings.>> > > this is pretty old news (the 1997 copyright on that web page is a good > tipoff), and I know that they've been sitting on at least one completed > record which they promised to release a few years ago (Earl Howard/Gerry > Hemingway). has CRI actually released any jazz records as of yet? No, they haven't. I was in on this near the beginning and gave the guy who used to run CRI a list of a dozen prospective projects that included Hemingway (who already had the disc you mentioned underway), Tim Berne (bloodcount plus four), Baikida Carroll, John Hollenbeck, Matt Moran's Sideshow, and a handful of others. (It also included Cecil Taylor, but this, perhaps, was just wishful thinking.) This would have been sometime in 1998. They actually got in touch with the artists I suggested and things got underway. Since then, the person who ran CRI has left and a new person has come in, and the jazz project is very much underway. I've met and spoken with CRI several times over the last few months, and am currently writing liner notes for John Hollenbeck's 'No Images' (due for release in February) and Matt Moran's Sideshow (March or April, I think). The players on Hollenbeck's disc include David Liebman, Ray Anderson, Theo Bleckmann, Ellery Eskelin, Ben Monder and others. Moran's Sideshow is comprised of songs and pieces by Charles Ives as performed by Moran, Hollenbeck, Oscar Noreiga and Adam Good. So yes, it's really happening. It just hit a minor setback for a while, and it also takes time to raise the money for these releases. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - John Hollenbeck, "Liebman/Hollenbeck Vignettes," 'No Images' (CD-R) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: [Avant-Garde] Re: CRI looks for jazz composers Date: 11 Oct 2000 15:50:52 EDT In a message dated 10/11/00 3:42:09 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << So yes, it's really happening. >> great, good to hear! thanks for the info, Steve. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: CRI looks for jazz composers Date: 11 Oct 2000 14:39:46 EDT In a message dated 10/11/00 12:17:12 PM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: << Composers Recordings Incorporated, noted for their releases of new music, usually by living composers, is looking for submissions for a new line of jazz recordings.>> this is pretty old news (the 1997 copyright on that web page is a good tipoff), and I know that they've been sitting on at least one completed record which they promised to release a few years ago (Earl Howard/Gerry Hemingway). has CRI actually released any jazz records as of yet? if I'm way offbase here, please let me know, but I don't think I am. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: CRI looks for jazz composers Date: 11 Oct 2000 14:39:46 EDT In a message dated 10/11/00 12:17:12 PM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: << Composers Recordings Incorporated, noted for their releases of new music, usually by living composers, is looking for submissions for a new line of jazz recordings.>> this is pretty old news (the 1997 copyright on that web page is a good tipoff), and I know that they've been sitting on at least one completed record which they promised to release a few years ago (Earl Howard/Gerry Hemingway). has CRI actually released any jazz records as of yet? if I'm way offbase here, please let me know, but I don't think I am. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: Greek music Date: 11 Oct 2000 16:03:31 EDT IN Detroit in May, Kowald mentioned that a trio recording he did with Floridis and Gunter Sommer, called _Aphorismes_ is going tobe available in the States soon. Jerry B. > Floridis is my favorite player, I have posted on him in the past, > I am glad to see some people know him, his recordings with > the FLORINA BRASS BAND are also great, traditional, full-throttle > brass music, with some nice soloing, especially live. > His quartet WUTU WUPATU is also great, in the same vein but more jazzy, > sort of a greek equivalent to MASADA maybe? > He played often in the past with German people, he can also be heard > on a beautiful duo with Kowald on an FMP record. > Most of his records in Greece are on ANO KATO records if anyone > tries to track them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Kang/Ayler Date: 11 Oct 2000 19:52:37 EDT << Is there a Eyvind Kang discography somewhere? >> If I can blow my own horn, Kang does a sixteen-minute absolute full-freak-out on Ayler's "Bells" on a disc on my own label: "The Marriage of Heaven and Earth" by saxophonist Robert Reigle. North Country, Downtown Music Gallery or direct. Acoustic Levitation AL 1002. Steve Koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: Flamenco Date: 11 Oct 2000 20:02:06 EDT <> I have way too many flamenco discs and am very happy to have them. Le Chant du Monde has a full series of famous flamenco artists, recently found a lot of them at some unnamed store's sale annex for about seven bucks each. I believe they're all still in print. I especially recommend the volumes by cameron de la isla (he also has many excellent discs on the [spanish] philips label) beni di cadiz, manolo carocal, el nino de almaden and la nina de los peines. there also was a young boy on a CD anothology from the spanish gov't i've misfiled, but will report on when i can... he was the real thing. steve koenig laFolia.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren Subject: re: Kang/Ayler/Reigle Date: 11 Oct 2000 23:18:38 -0400 MEEP! Acousticlv@aol.com wrote: >If I can blow my own horn, Kang does a sixteen-minute >absolute full-freak-out on Ayler's "Bells" >on a disc on my own label: "The Marriage of Heaven and Earth" > by saxophonist Robert Reigle. Okay, I've been meaning to ask this for a while now... I found a copy of this disc over the summer in an unexpected, out-of-the-way spot and absolutely love it, but haven't had much luck finding out anything more about Reigle (other than that he appears to be more extensively published than he is recorded). Can anybody suggest any other recordings of his work that I might find without having to sign my soul over to Powers Unspeakable in the process? -me - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: cool your jets, fogies Date: 12 Oct 2000 01:06:19 -0400 On Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 10:53:40AM +0200, Marcin Gokieli wrote: > What is an afternoon drama serial? In Afternoon Drama Serialism, a show consists of exactly twelve characters, each of whom must speak a line before anyone can speak a second line. Characters may wear any clothes without affecting this, and sections may be broadcast backward or upside down. It's usually used in shorter forms, with the notable exception of Proctor and Berg's soap opera "Woyczek 90210". -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: Lytton Date: 12 Oct 2000 11:22:58 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Bjoern" == Bjoern Dirlack writes: Bjoern> Scott Handley schrieb: >> Paul Lytton My questions: could anyone who's seen him use >> electronics and percussion --- tabletop or otherwise --- give >> me an idea of what the set-up looks like, and how he performs >> in it? What sounds does it elicit? Bjoern> It´s an reduced "regular" drum kit (bass drum, snare, Bjoern> cymbals). Besides is a standing metal frame with different Bjoern> amplified wires. He bows or plucks the wires and uses Bjoern> volume pedals. The drum kit is mostly treated by the Bjoern> bow(s). He also uses microphones for amplifying some Bjoern> voice-effects. It sounds howling and croaking and rattling Bjoern> - lo-fi. But mostly not loud. Bjoern> He uses this set-up in concert with the "insect" players, Bjoern> seperately from his works as a more energetic drummer Bjoern> (Evan Parker Trio). Do you include Wachsmann among the "insect" players? If so, you're description of Lytton's rig only partly corresponds to what I recall from the two occasions I saw this duo in concert, though I essentially agree with your characterization of the sounds. Lytton had rather large tables hung with cloths (preventing seeing beneath them) at right angles to each other, one between him and the audience, another between him and Wachsmann (or perhaps it was more towards to back of the stage, or maybe there was a third table, I can't remember), and they were piled high with implements (a lot from his "standard" kit, i.e. blocks and metal plates and chains, etc.), so that Lytton was often blocked from the audience's (or at least my) view. There were a number of cymbals, some on stands, and I recall at least one or two little drums, perhaps a snare, but no bass drum and certainly nothing resembling a drum kit set-up (maybe there was a bass drum under one of the tables, but I also don't recall hearing one). The contact-mic'd metal frame with wires was there, at the back (perhaps on a table). He wore a headset mic. I certainly couldn't see a volume pedal but wouldn't deny he used one. Even when he wasn't obscured from view, I often found it hard to see how he produced sounds, except for easily visible motions such as bowing, hitting a cymbol, or twirling his rubber tube. Often he appeared quite still with his head bent down or his back turned to the audience (and he almost entirely avoided eye contact Wachsmann, except at the end a piece (and Wachsmann, too, only glanced a few times towards Lytton). --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: more percussion(ists) and violin(ists) Date: 12 Oct 2000 12:25:32 +0200 (MET DST) I don't recall seeing any of the following mentioned in these threads and think they are worth mentioning (and hearing!): Percussion: - Steve Reich's _Drumming_ (some other works were mentioned but not this one I think). - Xenakis's _Pleiades_ for six percussionists. I think his largest all percussion work and pretty spectacular. _Rebonds_ for solo percussion also isn't too bad. - William Winant (even directly list-relevant!) I don't know of any solo work by him, but he's crucially contributed to lots of projects and records, among them Room with Larry Ochs and Donald Robinson, the Glenn Spearman Double Trio, the Abel-Steinberg-Winant trio, and Zorn's _Elegy_ and _Kristallnacht_. I haven't heard Thurston Moore's _Piece for Jetsun Dolma_ with Winant and Tom Surgal, but I saw them perform at Taktlos a few years ago and found it overwhelming, larger because of Winant's playing. - Roger Turner has done some wild and crazy and wonderful things; again I know of no solo records, but check out _Dada da_ (Leo) with Phil Minton, _The comforts of madness_ (Durian) with Helge Hinteregger and Franz Hautzinger, _Birthdays_ (Emanem) with John Russell (magnificent!), and _Recent croaks_ (Acta) with Martin Klapper. Violin: - Tony Conrad's _Four Violins_, available on _Early Minimalism_ (ToTE), which should satisfy any need to binge on minimalist violins, perhaps just leaving room for a dessert of - Reich's _Violin Phase_. Three very different mainly improv violinists who've made wonderful solo records: - Phil Durrant _Sowari_ (Acta), mix of acoustic and electronically manipulated pieces. (Of course lots of non-solo stuff by himi too.) - Harald Kimmig _Im Freien_ (Hybrid), all acoustic, recorded both outdoors and indoors (a church? don't remember). - Kaffe Matthews _Anne_ and _Bea_ (Annette Works; there's also _Cecile_, which I haven't heard), violin plus lots of sampling, often doesn't sound a a violin at all. --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Mark Feldman and Hank Roberts Date: 12 Oct 2000 12:34:55 +0200 (MET DST) Someone asked about records with Mark Feldman and I think someone also asked about Hank Roberts. Both play on Marilyn Crispell's _Santuerio_ (Leo, also with Gerry Hemingway), which is a wonderful record, one of Crispell's best. --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Mark Feldman and Hank Roberts Date: 12 Oct 2000 13:02:08 EDT --part1_ad.1b02f5b.27174890_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << Someone asked about records with Mark Feldman and I think someone also asked about Hank Roberts. Both play on Marilyn Crispell's _Santuerio_ (Leo, also with Gerry Hemingway), which is a wonderful record, one of Crispell's best. --Steve Berman >> Yeah, I remember that post. Thanks for bringing it up. "Santuerio" is indeed quite good. The original poster was asking what cd had both Tim Berne and Robin Eubanks. That would be "Black Pastels" which is one of his better cds. A '88 JMT release, probably hard to find. You can look up his complete discography at levelgreen.com(click on Hank's Page). Highlights for me are the 2 Miniature releases w/ Berne and Baron, the duo with Berne, "Little Motor People" with Django Bates and a drummer who's name I can't even bregin to spell, and lastly Phil Haynes' "Free Country". That last release is one of the best things Roberts has done in a long time. It's covers of old folk standards that you never thought could possibly sound this good. Roberts is clearly in his element here. This cd also has Drew Gress and the very good guitarist Jim Yanda, who is unknown to me. Anyone know anything about him? Cheers, John Threadgould --part1_ad.1b02f5b.27174890_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Full-name: Fastian Message-ID: <6.c990cd2.271741d8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 116 << Someone asked about records with Mark Feldman and I think someone also asked about Hank Roberts. Both play on Marilyn Crispell's _Santuerio_ (Leo, also with Gerry Hemingway), which is a wonderful record, one of Crispell's best. --Steve Berman >> Yeah, I remember that post. Thanks for bringing it up. "Santuerio" is indeed quite good. The original poster was asking what cd had both Tim Berne and Robin Eubanks. That would be "Black Pastels" which is one of his better cds. A '88 JMT release, probably hard to find. You can look up his complete discography at levelgreen.com(click on Hank's Page). Highlights for me are the 2 Miniature releases w/ Berne and Baron, the duo with Berne, "Little Motor People" with Django Bates and a drummer who's name I can't even bregin to spell, and lastly Phil Haynes' "Free Country". That last release is one of the best things Roberts has done in a long time. It's covers of old folk standards that you never thought could possibly sound this good. Roberts is clearly in his element here. This cd also has Drew Gress and the very good guitarist Jim Yanda, who is unknown to me. Anyone know anything about him? Cheers, John Threadgould --part1_ad.1b02f5b.27174890_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Zorn For Dummies Date: 12 Oct 2000 14:31:13 EDT Hello- I am very new to the list, and to John Zorn as well. I've heard only a limited amount of recordings to which I've found to be very interesting. I am aware that he has a vast discography, and was wondering if any devoted fan would be willing to tape me some of his works, a personal "greatest hits" if you will, because I'd like to experience a fans favorites over an entire album. Trading would be fine with me, but the only main collection I have of rarities is of Jandek. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: re: Kang/Ayler/Reigle Date: 12 Oct 2000 17:06:43 -0500 At 23:18 11-10-00 -0400, you wrote: >MEEP! Acousticlv@aol.com wrote: > >If I can blow my own horn, Kang does a sixteen-minute > >absolute full-freak-out on Ayler's "Bells" > >on a disc on my own label: "The Marriage of Heaven and Earth" > > by saxophonist Robert Reigle. >Okay, I've been meaning to ask this for a while now... I found a copy of >this disc over the summer in an unexpected, out-of-the-way spot and >absolutely love it, but haven't had much luck finding out anything more >about Reigle (other than that he appears to be more extensively published >than he is recorded). Can anybody suggest any other recordings of his work >that I might find without having to sign my soul over to Powers Unspeakable >in the process? > >-me Taylor, Cadence has all three of Reigle's Acoustic Livitation CDs listed as in stock (@US$14.00/). I have "Surrealestate" and "Tenor saxophone" but since they recently arrived I've had time only to listen to them briefly. Very intesting from the brief exposure, which leads me to think that they'll show up on a future programme some Sunday evening. Hope this helps. Saturnally, Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, The University of Alabama @ Birmingham Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz): Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio: WUAL 91.5FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 88.7FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3FM Selma/Montgomery/Southern Alabama - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Gert-Jan Prins mini-US tour Date: 12 Oct 2000 18:38:25 EDT Prins is one of the 12 members of the MIMEO, and co-runs the X-Or label with Luc Houtkamp. the electro-acoustic duo UNITED NOISE TOYS will come to USA next week UNITED NOISE TOYS Anne la Berge : flute , electronics Gert-Jan Prins : electronics OCTOBER 18 UNITED NOISE TOYS Empty Bottle, Chicago OCTOBER 19 UNITED NOISE TOYS The Art Institute of Chicago, 1200h OCTOBER 19 UNITED NOISE TOYS The Nervous Center 4612 N. Lincoln Ave, Chicago OCTOBER 22 UNITED NOISE TOYS Roulette , New York City www.roulette.org *** X-OR cd : FR 10 just released *** Prins Radio & TV Modulations X-OR Record Company: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xorgj/ Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: New Don Byron project NYC 11/3/00 Date: 12 Oct 2000 19:34:47 -0500 NYC Zornies and Byron enthusiasts everywhere: Don Byron is set to uncork his newest thing on New Yorkers on Friday, November 3 at Symphony Space (2537 Broadway at 95th St.) and I just had to share this: The program's called "Contrasting Brilliance" and is made up of the music of... Sly Stone AND Henry Mancini. Only Byron... Anyway, the band is saxophonist Bob DeBellis (from 'Bug Music'), trumpeters Steven Bernstein and Ralph Alessi, trombonists Josh Roseman and Curtis Fowlkes, pianist Uri Caine, bassist James Genus, drummer Rodney Holmes, guitarist David "not the fat lazy British guy" Gilmore, percussionist Johnny Almendra, and vocalist DK Dyson. Interestingly, for those who might possibly balk at the $15 ticket price (and surely that shouldn't be many), the venue has also instituted a "pay what you will" policy at the door on the night of the performance for this gig. Stadard disclaimer: I gots no connection to this gig, venue or artist, but just wanted to help spread the word... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Terence Blanchard, "Luna Viajera," 'Wandering Moon' (Sony Classical) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: New Don Byron project NYC 11/3/00 Date: 12 Oct 2000 20:54:31 EDT ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > The program's called "Contrasting Brilliance" and is made up of the > music of... Sly Stone AND Henry Mancini. Only Byron... Man, I love Byron as a player, but as a leader he's just pushing in so many different directions sometimes that it leaves me scratching my head...sorta like Zorn I guess. I just picked up 'Plays Mickey Katz' and it's just downright weird (and it takes a lot for me to say something's weird). The playing is good, but I really don't care for much of the music, the vocals, or the live Katz excerpts. I doubt this'll get much play. > Anyway, the band is saxophonist Bob DeBellis (from 'Bug Music'), > trumpeters Steven Bernstein and Ralph Alessi, trombonists Josh Roseman > and Curtis Fowlkes, pianist Uri Caine, bassist James Genus, drummer > Rodney Holmes, guitarist David "not the fat lazy British guy" Gilmore, > percussionist Johnny Almendra, and vocalist DK Dyson. Many of them the usual suspects. My favorite Byron album (although I only have 4 of the 7) is 'No Vibe Zone: Live at the Knit,' thusfar his most "out" recording, with Caine, Gilmore, Kenny Davis(b), and Marvin Smith(d). Then again, 'Bug Music' is a lot of fun and 'Romance with the Unseen' really beautiful, so it's difficult to compare them all really. One thing's for sure, you never know what you're gonna get with Byron. I'd love to take a look at his record collection sometime--bound to find some bizarre stuff. jeff caltabiano n.p. chico hamilton w/ dolphy: the original ellington suite - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Gunning" Subject: Ora "Amalgam" Date: 12 Oct 2000 21:48:37 -0500 Just received the Ora "Amalgam" double LP from Anomalous earlier today. This is a compilation of tracks from earlier cassette or CDR limited releases. I guess Ora has officially dissolved, so it's probably not likely that there will be any future releases, unless they are, like this, compilations of previously recorded material. Anyway, this is just gorgeous stuff, totally beatless organic drone, nothing quite like it. If you enjoyed Ora's "Rosea", or the Ora/Alio Die compilation "The Door of Possibilities" then you want to get this album. If you don't have those, then get all three. dg http://www.dgunning.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: rec.music.experimental Date: 12 Oct 2000 23:27:57 EDT there's an interesting discussion going on about the possible creation of a new newsgroup, rec.music.experimental, on the news.groups Usenet newsgroup. 48 hours until AMM! Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: more percussion(ists) and violin(ists) Date: 12 Oct 2000 23:48:04 EDT In a message dated 10/12/00 6:27:29 AM, steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE writes: << Kaffe Matthews _Anne_ and _Bea_ (Annette Works; there's also _Cecile_, which I haven't heard), violin plus lots of sampling, often doesn't sound LIKE a violin at all. >> some additional info: Kaffe has given up the violin, at least for now, to focus exclusively on her real-time sampling laptop work. Cecile, which was recorded in early 1999, only contains "a scrap of violin". Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sh" Subject: Ornette Coleman Date: 12 Oct 2000 01:09:17 -0300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0496_01C033E9.0CD731C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you were to recommend an Ornette Coleman disc for someone to buy, = what would it be and why? I missed the all the Ornette chatter on the = Zorn-list that transpired a while a go, so, my apologies. Thanks in = advance. ------=_NextPart_000_0496_01C033E9.0CD731C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you were to recommend an Ornette Coleman disc for = someone=20 to buy, what would it be and why?  I missed the all the Ornette = chatter on=20 the Zorn-list that transpired a while a go, so, my apologies.  = Thanks in=20 advance.
------=_NextPart_000_0496_01C033E9.0CD731C0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 13 Oct 2000 00:43:22 -0400 On Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 01:09:17AM -0300, Sh wrote: > If you were to recommend an Ornette Coleman disc for someone to buy, what would it be and why? I missed the all the Ornette chatter on the Zorn-list that transpired a while a go, so, my apologies. Thanks in advance. I'd say the best all-around introduction would be "In All Languages", which features both his electric and acoustic groups doing many of the same pieces. This provides both a variety of textures and a way into seeing how his writing works in different settings. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: New Don Byron project NYC 11/3/00 Date: 13 Oct 2000 09:21:27 +0200 >> The program's called "Contrasting Brilliance" and is made up of the >> music of... Sly Stone AND Henry Mancini. Only Byron... >Man, I love Byron as a player, but as a leader he's just pushing in so many >different directions sometimes that it leaves me scratching my head...sorta >like Zorn I guess. I just picked up 'Plays Mickey Katz' and it's just >downright weird (and it takes a lot for me to say something's weird). The >playing is good, but I really don't care for much of the music, the vocals, >or the live Katz excerpts. I doubt this'll get much play. You must be kidding!?! Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: Hank Roberts Date: 13 Oct 2000 09:41:26 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Fastian" == John Threadgould writes: Fastian> up. "Santuerio" is indeed quite good. The original poster Fastian> was asking what cd had both Tim Berne and Robin Eubanks. Fastian> That would be "Black Pastels" which is one of his better Fastian> cds. A '88 JMT release, probably hard to find. You can Fastian> look up his complete discography at levelgreen.com(click Fastian> on Hank's Page). Highlights for me are the 2 Miniature Fastian> releases w/ Berne and Baron, the duo with Berne, "Little Fastian> Motor People" with Django Bates and a drummer who's name Fastian> I can't even bregin to spell [...] Arto Tuncboyaciyan (is he the same as Arto Tuncboyaci?). Roberts also plays on Berne's _Fulton Street Maul_. --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: more percussion(ists) and violin(ists) Date: 13 Oct 2000 10:15:53 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "JonAbbey2" == JonAbbey2 writes: JonAbbey2> In a message dated 10/12/00 6:27:29 AM, JonAbbey2> steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE writes: JonAbbey2> << Kaffe Matthews _Anne_ and _Bea_ (Annette Works; JonAbbey2> there's also _Cecile_, which I haven't heard), violin JonAbbey2> plus lots of sampling, often doesn't sound LIKE a JonAbbey2> violin at all. >> JonAbbey2> some additional info: Kaffe has given up the violin, at JonAbbey2> least for now, to focus exclusively on her real-time JonAbbey2> sampling laptop work. Cecile, which was recorded in JonAbbey2> early 1999, only contains "a scrap of violin". I vaguely recall hearing that. It's consistent with the only time I've seen her in concert, which was at Taktlos this past Spring, a duo with Charles Hayward. It was a visually striking performance: Hayward surrounded by the hugest drumkit I think I've ever seen, taking up almost half the stage, and Matthews sitting on a chair a little off to the side with her laptop on a small table in front of her. The music was sometimes interesting but overall didn't impress me too much. Hayward's thrashing away all over his kit was sometimes exhilerating, sometimes tedious; his vocalizations sometimes colorful, sometimes tedious. He also played a melodic instrument a few times, though I can't remember what (maybe an ocarina or mbira?). Matthews's sampling results were sometimes interesting, sometimes not, and seemed a bit haphazard. Judging by her expressions, she appeared either to have occasional problems with the laptop or at least to be uncertain of or unhappy with her output. She has a very expressive face and employed a lot of body language (given that was just sitting there), and I was visually more engrossed watching her on the laptop than I've been watching, say, Jim O'Rourke or Christian Fennesz on laptop. What do you think of _Cecile_? I like _Anne_ and _Bea_ quite a bit, and again wasn't bowled over by the violinless duo with Hayward (but I guess he isn't on _Cecile_). --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Main/Comae (was unheard music) Date: 13 Oct 2000 02:44:16 -0700 (PDT) well, sorry this isn't much about music but... anyone who manages to catch comae during the rest of this tour, can you please tell robert to phone me? thanks, hasta. On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > Robert Hampson, who is (was?) Main, played NYC last weekend in his new duo > project with turntablist Janek Schaefer, Comae. I saw them in the Knitactive > Sound Stage on Saturday night, and as always in that space, I was treated to > a basically private show (3 other people there). great space for fans, > terrible for musicians. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: more percussion(ists) and violin(ists) Date: 13 Oct 2000 09:56:40 EDT In a message dated 10/13/00 4:16:48 AM, steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE writes: << What do you think of _Cecile_? I like _Anne_ and _Bea_ quite a bit, and again wasn't bowled over by the violinless duo with Hayward (but I guess he isn't on _Cecile_). >> Cecile is pretty good, my favorite of the three. she still hasn't made a record that's as good as the show I saw her play in Otomo's Austrian festival last year, although I haven't heard the recent Audioview one yet. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: rose moss king long Date: 13 Oct 2000 11:06:19 -0500 some great things this week... jon rose wednesday night at tonic, with mark dresser(bass, who actually seemed to be leading the quartet), tomas ulrich(cello) and a phenomenal violinist first-named mari. i'm sure someone will fill in the blank for me. really deep, beautiful interplay. i've mentioned it before, but these performances have really informed me a lot on rose. most of the recordings i have of his have great playing, but it's always slightly eclipsed by the fascinating conceptual aspects. it's so nice to see him in different settings showing his improvising mettle. a major piece of the set was a series of sort of 'tag' duets. dresser solo, dresser and mari, mari solo, mari and rose, rose solo, rose and ulrich, ulrich solo, ulrich and dresser. the violin duo was especially wonderful. it was great to see a string quartet comprised of three people who would have to number in my top five each for their instruments, plus a brilliant violinist i'd never heard before. deep, deep stuff. challenging listening. last night i was in a nicely crowded house at merkin for seperate sets by david moss and john king. there's been some talk here recently about moss, and his set offered some insight vis a vis. someone said they thought he had given up drums entirely. well, maybe he's given 'em up 94% or so. the 45 minute piece was called 'twist and shout', lots of overlaid vocal delay used in different ways, spoken parts, physical animation. it began and ended with repeated variations on the sentence 'context is everything.' he did use some sort of electronic drum pad that he played with sticks (didn't get a good look at it) and had a snare drum on stage, which he basically just used as a table to hold a few objects, including a huge piece of some sort of thick cellophane that he crinkled for audio(/visual?) effect. after the talk of his drumming, i wanted to relay to y'all. he stopped at one point, let the reverberations die down, and said 'y'know, i started this life 30 years ago as a drummer, and people always asked me, david, why don't you ever play rhythm? so i started concentrating on vocals, and people asked me, david, why don't you ever play rhythm.' (his delivery, by the way, is on the dime.) he them proceeded to give the people what they want by taking out a large red collapsing fan (like asians and damsels use), opening it and hitting himself in the face with it, creating a loud thud on his headset microphone. he repeated that, then delayed it and created different counter rhythms, always hitting himself in the face. he then used that as a backing track for a piece with a story ending with a repeated line something like 'it was a sound like no music i'd ever heard before.' his line repitions are great, putting the same line over and over, harmonizing with it, altering it, creating dense muddy choruses of a single sentence. first time i'd seen him (i know him from 3 or 4 records - my favorite things, roof, caine's goldbergs). good fun. the second half was three chamber pieces by john king, which surprised me quite a bit. i know king from seeing him play guitar and a few records (electric world with bill laswell and rashied ali if memory serves, which is only ok, and the better electric sun on hoppy kamiyama's label god mountain). i knew nothing of king the composer, although from the program notes he's done quite a bit of it, largely commissions for dance, it seems. the first piece was a string quartet performed by ethel (formerly hazardous materials), with whom i'm unfamiliar. second piece added marty ehlrich and jd parran on bass clarinets, and the third retained only marty. heavy, energetic, very thematic stuff. enjoyable, exuberant at times. high point was a brief cello/bass clarinet duet where i was struggling to figure out what was string and what was reed. following in the thread of great duets recently, can anyone think of bclarinet/cello pairings? only possibility i can come up with is dolphy/ron carter, and i don't know that it ever happened. i was wondering what one might term king's pieces (though i know i shouldn't wonder such things). the contemp classical world's one i only dip a toe in sometimes. i've heard such terms as 'maximalism' and 'totalism' but can't remember how they apply. if anyone's still reading, please school me. man, some weeks new york is so alive! melt banana at the knit tonight (i'll look for you, jeni), gisburg at the brecht forum tomorrow (i won't even mention everything else tomorrow, i'm just glad i don't have to face choosing since i'm committed to being at the brecht), tom abbs at dmg sunday eve, masada at merkin monday. jiminy cricket! ok, cheerios. kg np: chris speed trio - iffy (there's something about speed (cripes, is he still talking?) that i've never been able to put my finger on, but it never quite reaches full steam for me. this is a nice disc, though. quite good. perowsky, with saft on organ and synth. most enjoyable, and firey playing from the leader. if the paper where i work would just print my emails, i could leave by noon... k - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: ornette Date: 13 Oct 2000 10:35:30 -0700 >I'd say the best all-around introduction would be "In All Languages", this is a good compromise to get a little taste of the different styles of ornette, and is one of his more accessible. but as with many compromises, you sacrifice some depth. why not start with "change of the century" or "shape of jazz to come" for the acoustic band? (although it wouldn't be a risk to just buy the complete atlantic ornette, a brilliant box set including these two classics and much more.) as for electric stuff, after the last discussion i believe that "of human feelings" is now my favorite prime time. did we decide that was OOP? so then, might try "virgin beauty" (more accessible) or "dancing in your head" (half of it with the master musicians of joujoukam right?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: looking4songlines (delete if that's not you) Date: 13 Oct 2000 13:39:03 -0500 sorry everyone else. there used to be a fellow from songlines on the list. are you still here (sorry, forgot your name)? drop me a line if yeah. thanks, kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: ornette Date: 13 Oct 2000 13:26:45 -0400 On Fri, Oct 13, 2000 at 10:35:30AM -0700, Martin Wisckol wrote: > > >I'd say the best all-around introduction would be "In All Languages", > this is a good compromise to get a little taste of the different styles of > ornette, and is one of his more accessible. but as with many compromises, > you sacrifice some depth. > > why not start with "change of the century" or "shape of jazz to come" for > the acoustic band? (although it wouldn't be a risk to just buy the > complete atlantic ornette, a brilliant box set including these two > classics and much more.) Well, we were asked for a single recommendation. Sure, I'd say to go for any of the early Atlantic recordings plus "Of Human Feelings" (which is, indeed, OOP -- I got a Japanese CD of it on eBay) for a multi-disc view. And at about 71 minutes, I think it contains as much music as the ~36 minute "Of Human Feelings" plus either of the early discs at the price of a single disc. And I don't hear any "compromises" in the strong playing and writing on it. > as for electric stuff, after the last discussion i believe that "of human > feelings" is now my favorite prime time. did we decide that was OOP? so > then, might try "virgin beauty" (more accessible) or "dancing in your > head" (half of it with the master musicians of joujoukam right?) Well, there's only about 9 minutes of the Master Musicians of Jajouka on the recent reissue (including a track not on the original). Apparently a whole lotta tape exists from these sessions (is Ornette hanging on to it or is Sony?) but these snippets are all that have been released. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: New Sale/Trade list Date: 13 Oct 2000 14:36:06 -0400 Money folks: I'm needing it, and you have it. Some of these are in some sort of special promotional packaging, and they're marked with a *. All of these are cds and are $9ppd. Buy 3, take a dollar off. Buy 5 or more, take $2 off. I can give tracklistings, info even reiews occasionally. Or, I'm open to offers as well. I'm looking for all sorts of music, improv, jazz, field recordings, compostion, glitch, electoacoustics, breakcore, IDM, post-rock, drone, noise loud, soft, *hip-hop* etc. Stuff on Schematic, Trente Oiseaux, Ritornell, Mille Plateaux, For 4 Ears, and MANY others. I've got a big wantlist, but PLEASE make offers of what you have. I'm open to offers of good movies and books (esp. Douglas Kahn's "Noise Water Meat") too. Oh yeah, I'll trade any 70 of these for the Merzbox :-) Metal Candiria- The Process of Self-Development * Cradle of Filth- Midian Cream Abdul Babar- Buried in Broken Glass Death- Human (Japanese import w/extra track according to booklet) Godflesh- Us & Them * In Flames- Colony * In Flames- Clayman * In Aeturnum- The Pestilential Plague * Mayhem- Grand Declaration of War Jazz/Improv/Blues: Clusone Trio- I Am an Indian Briggan Krauss- Descending to End Kip Hanrahan- Desire Develops an Edge Joe Morris/Mat Maneri- [soul search] Joe Morris Quartet- At the Old Office John Randall Pelosi- Plus Ultra * Lee Ranaldo- Dirty Windows Matthew Shipp- Symbol Systems Matthew Shipp w/ William Parker- DNA Matthew Shipp Trio- Circular Temple Tronzo/Granelli/Epstein- Crunch Vandermark 5- Simpatico Composition: Henryk Gòreki- Symphony #3 John Hudak- Don't Worry About Anything, I'll Talk to You Tomorrow Ikue Mori- B-Side Ennio Moricone- A Fistful of Filmmusic Arvo Part- Te Deum David Shea- The Prisoner David Shea- I David Shea- Satyricon Shea/Rimbaud/Hampson- Live in London Cheers, Nirav AIM: Icefactory37 -- OnNow- Gordon Mumma- Studio Retrospective "Don't try to make me consistent. I am learning all the time." - R. Buckminster Fuller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Filmworks 9? Date: 13 Oct 2000 11:45:21 -0700 (PDT) I see at cheap-cds.com that Filmworks 9 will be released in late November... Now that's exciting! ===== -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: zbigniew karkowski Date: 13 Oct 2000 16:39:05 -0500 there was some talk of him here recent, yeah? someone give me the lowdown, background, etc. please? and helmut schlafer, if you would. thanks. kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: zbigniew karkowski Date: 13 Oct 2000 17:32:04 -0400 At 04:39 PM 10/13/00 -0500, kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: >there was some talk of him here recent, yeah? someone give me the lowdown, >background, etc. please? and helmut schlafer, if you would. Don't know if he was discussed on the zorn-list, and I'm not too familiar with him, but if you have some time to lose this afternoon you should be able to find some info at the following links. http://bek.no : there was something named lockup666 (or something like that) some months ago, karkowski, merzbow, and a few other noise persons locked themselves up for a few days in the buildings of bek.no, I believe, at the end of which they performed live on the net. I can't connect to bek.no now but last time I looked the stream was archived. http://fals.ch : I know there are some releases (mp3) there. http://www.nd.org/oro/zk1.html : just found this, I don't know what it is. http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/karkowski.html : "Karkowksi studied music in Sweden and the Netherlands, worked at Steim studios and was an active member of The Hafler Trio and Phauss for years. He works actively as a composer of both instrumental music -- he has written among others two pieces for large orchestra, both commissioned and performed by Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra, an opera and several chamber music pieces which were performed by professional ensembles in Sweden, Poland and Germany -- and electro-acoustic media. Besides working as a composer of contemporary music he has been collaborating with several experimental groups/artists such as Blixa Bargeld, Merzbow, Stelarc, Z'ev, John Duncan, Granular Synthesis, John Rose, Digital Primate, Cosmic Trigger, PITT, Mental Hackers, Fleshquartet, Ulf Bilting (etc.) , and has worked on remixing bands like Clock DVA, Blue for Two and Phauss. Since December 1993 he has been an active member of the Sensorband. Karkowski also recently formed the unit Mazk with Masami Akita of Merzbow." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus Subject: NYU's Downtown New York Collection Date: 13 Oct 2000 18:15:34 -0400 Recently I became acquainted with the Downtown New York Collection of New York University's Fales Library and Special Collections. I would like to share information about the collection with the list. The Downtown collection is a valuable resource that documents the New York avant-garde, 1975 to present. All mediums are represented, including literature, art work, comics, performance art, and music (particularly punk and electronic music). NYU is one of the few institutions to document the downtown scene. Researchers must make appointments to access materials. More detailed information, snipped from a recent Fales Library announcement: "In 1995 The Fales Library and Special Collections at New York University began a collecting project to document the downtown New York arts scene that developed in SoHo during the mid-1970s and moved to the Lower East Side in the 1980s. The Downtown collection, as it has come to be known, attempts to document as thoroughly as possible the vibrant outsider arts scene that was tied theoretically to post-structuralism and postmodernism and that saw the creation of outsider galleries, performance art, punk, and a host of other intermedia art works. The collection currently contains over 8000 printed volumes, 300 periodical titles, and some 1200 linear feet of archives and personal papers. Included in the collection are such artists and writers as David Wojnarowicz, Dennis Cooper, Lynne Tillman, Kathy Acker, Karen Finley, Spalding Gray, Gary Indiana, Art Speigelman, and a host of others. Performance spaces and magazines are represented by such collections as the Judson Memorial Church Archive, the Fashion Moda Archive, the High Risk Books Archive, the Between C&D Archive and the Redtape Archive. We have made every attempt to collect the scene on its own terms rather than forcing sometime difficult materials to conform to standardized processing procedures. We are collecting in nearly every medium, including works of art and performance documentation. As such, the collection represents an attempt at postmodern archival practice, in keeping with the content of the materials themselves." For further information, please see: "Kicking Culture, Fragments from the Downtown Scene, 1975-Present" online exhibit www.nyu.edu/library/bobst/research/fales/expub.htm Fales Library site, includes links to selected finding aids www.nyu.edu/library/bobst/research/fales Jeni Dahmus (not affiliated with NYU, but admittedly envious of the archivists who work with the Downtown collection) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 13 Oct 2000 20:38:45 EDT I was recently discussing with a friend some of Zorn's music and he tends to feel that he can get what I get from Zorn from other people. He's not saying that Zorn lacks originality but he doesn't feel Zorn is taking music to places it has never been. While I strongly disagree I was wondering what specific pieces or albums other list members feel are his most important contributions, not necessarily your favorite album. Thanks, Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 14 Oct 2000 13:49:53 +1000 > I was recently discussing with a friend some of Zorn's music and he tends to > feel that he can get what I get from Zorn from other people. He's not saying > that Zorn lacks originality but he doesn't feel Zorn is taking music to > places it has never been. While I strongly disagree I was wondering what > specific pieces or albums other list members feel are his most important > contributions, not necessarily your favorite album. I have a friend who said a similar thing, but actually went so far as to say he would never listen to Zorn if he could have 'the original'. Anyway, I would say Spillane and a few of the Naked City albums (maybe Torture Garden and the self-titled) for me are his most important contributions. I think Masada is one of the most amazing and interesting jazz groups in a long while. A lot of the classical stuff, although good to listen to is not essential considering it seems to be an extension of the work of composers like Boulez and Messaien... But lastly, I think his work as an arranger is important, so also maybe The Big Gundown... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: don Byron & sly stone Date: 14 Oct 2000 10:42:13 EDT << The program's called "Contrasting Brilliance" and is made up of the music of... Sly Stone AND Henry Mancini. Only Byron...>> dear steve, actually, it sounds like one of the Residents' "great American composers" series, like the one that had one side a sousa tribute and the other side james brown. or was that the gershwin and... re sly stone: i am desperately searching for a recording of sly live at the texas int'l pop festival, even tho im told the performance is terrible. i have a diff live concert with sly doing an extended 'youre the one' which is slammin... also a rumor went around ages ago that columbia, when it first put out sly on CD, did a mistake and put out alternate takes which was quickly withdrawn.... any confirmations or info? i do know one of their samplers which i own has an extended (not disco) version of 'thank you fa lettinme be mice elf' although it appears to be looped rather than a longer or diferent take. (while moping non-zornly, why didnt polygram put the 12" extended "wavelength" of the remastered van morrison of the same name) steve koenig LaFolia.com; Jazzweekly.com; SiggyToNoiz np: KK Null: GeV (Staalplaat/Soleilmoon) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 14 Oct 2000 11:14:55 EDT In a message dated 10/13/00 10:51:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au writes: << I was recently discussing with a friend some of Zorn's music and he tends to > feel that he can get what I get from Zorn from other people. He's not saying > that Zorn lacks originality but he doesn't feel Zorn is taking music to > places it has never been. While I strongly disagree I was wondering what > specific pieces or albums other list members feel are his most important > contributions, not necessarily your favorite album. >> I'd say Torture Garden and Absinthe (MAYBE Heretic), and probably Elegy. Most of the later game pieces I've heard usually manifest themselves in terms of genre-jumping fests, and therefore aren't as essential for me. However the old ones from the Parachute Years are quite good and 'original.' The Masada stuff may be popular but certainly not groundbreaking (not to mention one album would have been quite enough, though I'm sure that's oft-argued territory here). -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: winant/solo/.xenakis Date: 14 Oct 2000 11:19:04 EDT <<- - William Winant (even directly list-relevant!) I don't know of any solo work by him..b>> i know i have more somewhere, but there's a vinyl 7" of winant doing xenakis' "psappha" cat# e-x119et on the label Dolor de Estomago, (which translates to "stomach ache") purportedly from the state of Tamaulipas in Mexico. Although Mexico City is my second home, and have a series of articles abt mexican music (incl jazz & prog & weirder stuff) at LaFolia.com, i bought my copy at Other Music a few yrs ago. steve koenig n.p.: stockhausen "kontakte": wm winant & james tenney (ecstatic peace! E#87) & german bringas w/frith and cutler "elk engrane amarillo" (smogless/jazzorca records, mexico city) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 14 Oct 2000 12:05:38 EDT In a message dated 10/14/00 11:16:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Nudeants@aol.com writes: << The Masada stuff may be popular but certainly not groundbreaking (not to mention one album would have been quite enough, though I'm sure that's oft-argued territory here). -matt mitchell >> "Not groundbreaking" -- agreed. "One album...enough" -- I couldn't disagree more. Bring on ten more albums, I say. Should Miles Davis have stopped at "Kind of Blue"? Should Ornette have stopped at "Free Jazz"? Tom ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 14 Oct 2000 12:44:46 EDT In a message dated 10/14/00 12:07:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Samerivertwice@aol.com writes: << "Not groundbreaking" -- agreed. "One album...enough" -- I couldn't disagree more. Bring on ten more albums, I say. Should Miles Davis have stopped at "Kind of Blue"? Should Ornette have stopped at "Free Jazz"? >> No, and they didn't. Yet, neither Miles nor Ornette made over a dozen more albums after those that sounded EXACTLY the same, not to mention that the music is not even comparable, or that large portions of Masada sound exactly like Ornette retreads anyway. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 14 Oct 2000 14:23:04 EDT SPILLANE is still the groundbreaker for me on a personal level. I heard that right when it came out, and it stopped me dead in my tracks. Here was a guy who took all kinds of styles I knew about, and put them together in a way I had never known you could do things. The first Naked City kind of strengthened my feeling that Zorn was to be taken really seriously. I could be getting nostalgiac for certain stuff about that period, because a lot of records that really affected my outlook -- Prince's LOVESEXY, the first fIREHOSE album, Tim Berne's FULTON ST MAUL, and a few other things -- all came out around then and I was really enthusiastic about it, in that way you get enthusiastic at the age of about 21. But SPILLANE was kind of a SGT PEPPER record to me. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Bailey/Prevost (no Zorn content) Date: 14 Oct 2000 15:56:00 -0400 Probably of interest to at least a few people: While looking around the AMM/Matchless website, I just noticed that Derek Bailey and Eddie Prevost have a duo album due out this fall (which I take to mean any day now) on a label I've never heard of, San Wired. Anyone have more info? -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: 1 Masada enough ? Date: 11 Oct 2000 22:06:39 +0200 Matt said: "The Masada stuff may be popular but certainly not groundbreaking (not to mention one album would have been quite enough." I have to disagree that one Masada album would be enough. Masada is a _real_ band (not just a project) and NEEDS more than one album to create live playlists with a certain amount of variation. For me they could make five more albums (maybe with some new elements) anytime now. I'd buy 'em all !! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: what about speed ? Date: 11 Oct 2000 23:08:09 +0200 I didn't like "Iffy" too much either, but Speed's sound and melody with Pachora is majestic. He still has to prove that same level in other environments. kurt said: |np: chris speed trio - iffy (there's something about speed |that i've never been able to put my finger on, but it never quite |reaches full steam for me. this is a nice disc, though. quite |good. perowsky, |with saft on organ and synth. most enjoyable, and firey playing |from the leader.| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 14 Oct 2000 19:04:42 CDT funniest of all... Spillane was a kind of SGT Pepper record for me... i like that comparision. funny funny -samuel But SPILLANE was kind of a SGT PEPPER record to me. skip h - _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: 1 masada is enough Date: 14 Oct 2000 20:19:59 EDT Matt said: "The Masada stuff may be popular but certainly not groundbreaking (not to mention one album would have been quite enough." In the entire scope of music I think one could say that one album would have been enough but Zorn openly said one of the things he was trying to do with Masada was to have a song book ala Monk. I feel Masada tunes can be looked at as whole as sounding the same or Coleman meets Klezmer, but there are many tunes, solo's, and grooves I love which could not have existed had there only been one album. Also I wouldn't compare Masada to Miles stopping after Kind of Blue but more to the mid to late sixties quintet. There isn't a giant difference (Think Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew or Ascension and Love Supreme) between Miles Smiles, Nefertiti, E.S.P., Miles in The Sky, etc. Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: 1 masada is enough Date: 14 Oct 2000 20:42:24 EDT In a message dated 10/14/00 8:21:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, User384726@aol.com writes: << In the entire scope of music I think one could say that one album would have been enough but Zorn openly said one of the things he was trying to do with Masada was to have a song book ala Monk. I feel Masada tunes can be looked at as whole as sounding the same or Coleman meets Klezmer, but there are many tunes, solo's, and grooves I love which could not have existed had there only been one album. Also I wouldn't compare Masada to Miles stopping after Kind of Blue but more to the mid to late sixties quintet. There isn't a giant difference (Think Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew or Ascension and Love Supreme) between Miles Smiles, Nefertiti, E.S.P., Miles in The Sky, etc. >> I understend the point made in the first paragraph. Yet, while I can recognize the essence of what you're saying in the second paragraph, I couldn't say with a straight face that the playing or writing on the Masada albums is even remotely in the same league as any of the Miles albums. Additionally, would one not say that there's a great deal of evolution from ESP to Files de Kilimanjaro? The Masada guys for me are playing styles, while the Miles group was playing music. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: 1 masada is enough Date: 14 Oct 2000 21:14:18 -0400 On Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 08:42:24PM -0400, Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > The Masada guys for me are playing styles, while the Miles group was playing > music. Er, what? Is there a context in which this sentence means something? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: 1 masada is enough Date: 15 Oct 2000 11:25:51 +0200 > In a message dated 10/14/00 8:21:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > User384726@aol.com writes: >> Also I wouldn't compare Masada to Miles stopping after Kind of Blue but more > > to the mid to late sixties quintet. There isn't a giant difference (Think > > Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew or Ascension and Love Supreme) between Miles > > Smiles, Nefertiti, E.S.P., Miles in The Sky, etc. > paragraph, I couldn't say with a straight face that the playing or writing on > the Masada albums is even remotely in the same league as any of the Miles > albums. Additionally, would one not say that there's a great deal of > evolution from ESP to Files de Kilimanjaro? Of course, the change is big. And 'Filles' is an absolute materpiece, the music on the album reaches is one of the highlight of music. > The Masada guys for me are playing styles, while the Miles group was playing > music. However, I must say that i strongly disagree here. First let m say that Masada is IMO the best 'jazz' group now. I think that the connection with Coleman was overemphasized. Of course, there's an Colemaneque element in there, but it's just one of the elements. The main difference between MAsada and OC's bands is the degree to which those pieces are composed: There are masad tunes that are very strict composistions, even if they allow a large degree of improv within the composed structure. there's an element of discipline that is lacking in Coleman's bands. I see masad more as a kind of modern Bartok or Stravinsky then 'folk free jazz'. And I like masada more then anything by Coleman i've heard. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: 1 masada is enough Date: 15 Oct 2000 09:43:32 EDT In a message dated 10/15/00 5:35:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << > The Masada guys for me are playing styles, while the Miles group was playing > music. However, I must say that i strongly disagree here. First let m say that Masada is IMO the best 'jazz' group now. I think that the connection with Coleman was overemphasized. Of course, there's an Colemaneque element in there, but it's just one of the elements. The main difference between MAsada and OC's bands is the degree to which those pieces are composed: There are masad tunes that are very strict composistions, even if they allow a large degree of improv within the composed structure. there's an element of discipline that is lacking in Coleman's bands. I see masad more as a kind of modern Bartok or Stravinsky then 'folk free jazz'. And I like masada more then anything by Coleman i've heard. Marcin Gokieli >> Yes, exactly, um, what he said. Also, I'd like to point out that because of Masada's supposed "popularity," more people are getting turned on to Zorn and his cohorts than ever before. I can understand why someone may not appreciate or like Masada as much as other Zorn projects, but I think it's too sweeping and dismissive to claim they are a one-trick pony. (And even if they are, what a trick!) Thanks to this list, listening to Rautavaara's Violin Concerto, Tom ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Prague/Amsterdam/Finland (no jz) Date: 15 Oct 2000 11:11:41 EDT I have a friend who is going to the afformentioned places, and I'd like for him to pick me up some strange/avant-garde music.I'm not currently aware of any good record stores in the area, and maybe particular musicians that are related to the scene. Is that whole Mego scene going on in that area? Well, regardless. This is moderately un-related to Zorn, so feel free to Email me privately, as soon as possible, being that this person is leaving tonight. from, matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: 1 masada is enough Date: 15 Oct 2000 12:10:41 EDT Actually, its not even necessarily 'dismissive' to say such a thing at all. OK, I'm not really a huge fan, even though I'll admit to owning 4 Masada albums (1,2,3, and 6) and having heard more, yet I don't think its a secret that Zorn thinks in terms of styles in music. Now, aside from the fact that one has to 'call' a style of music 'something' in order to talk about it, there are definitely musicians who think of music as 'styles' and people who think of music as 'music.' Not to say that there isn't nebulous overlap; there pretty much always is. But my favorite Zorn projects are those that transcend 'styles' and get to 'music.' Torture Garden, which admittedly has its jump-cutting through styles at some points, seems to manage to transcend its 'style' preoccupations and be music. The same with Elegy, Absinthe, Heretic, probably Redbird and Duras:Duchamp also. However, though I like Spillane, Cobra and other things that are 'style' -bound, they seem a little trapped by these preoccupations. Masada seems like a lengthy exploration of a couple of specific 'styles.' It feels more like they are playing the Ornette/middle eastern(whatever you want to call it) style combination than transcending the limitations of the style definition and getting to the underlying music. Miles' group and the Ornette group did this, however. They new that on a certain level they were playing 'jazz,' but that on the most important level they were playing music. That's all I meant. -matt mitchell In a message dated 10/15/00 9:45:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Samerivertwice@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 10/15/00 5:35:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << > The Masada guys for me are playing styles, while the Miles group was playing > music. However, I must say that i strongly disagree here. First let m say that Masada is IMO the best 'jazz' group now. I think that the connection with Coleman was overemphasized. Of course, there's an Colemaneque element in there, but it's just one of the elements. The main difference between MAsada and OC's bands is the degree to which those pieces are composed: There are masad tunes that are very strict composistions, even if they allow a large degree of improv within the composed structure. there's an element of discipline that is lacking in Coleman's bands. I see masad more as a kind of modern Bartok or Stravinsky then 'folk free jazz'. And I like masada more then anything by Coleman i've heard. Marcin Gokieli >> Yes, exactly, um, what he said. Also, I'd like to point out that because of Masada's supposed "popularity," more people are getting turned on to Zorn and his cohorts than ever before. I can understand why someone may not appreciate or like Masada as much as other Zorn projects, but I think it's too sweeping and dismissive to claim they are a one-trick pony. (And even if they are, what a trick!) Thanks to this list, listening to Rautavaara's Violin Concerto, Tom ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: iva Date: 15 Oct 2000 12:35:14 EDT In a message dated 10/11/00 1:38:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << Pascal (np: Iva Bittova, "Bile Inferno") >> How is this? i liked the one song on the Tamizdat Comp. Ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: iva Date: 15 Oct 2000 19:38:12 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: Do: Wyslano: 15 pazdziernika 2000 18:35 Temat: iva | In a message dated 10/11/00 1:38:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, | owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: | | << Pascal | (np: Iva Bittova, "Bile Inferno") | >> | | How is this? i liked the one song on the Tamizdat Comp. | | Ben Buy or die. Wonderful 2CD set wit the guest apperaence of Tom Cora. Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: AMM/Karkowski Date: 15 Oct 2000 17:19:50 EDT In a message dated 10/13/00 4:41:37 PM, kurt_gottschalk@scni.com writes: << there was some talk of him here recent, yeah? someone give me the lowdown, background, etc. please? and helmut schlafer, if you would. >> I don't know a lot about his background, but easily the best release I've ever heard from him is the recent 3 inch CD on Mego, IT. just back from Autumn Uprising. AMM last night was the best improv set I've ever seen, not counting the 24 hour MIMEO show. I'll wait for other people to post about the show before I say more; it was a pretty overwhelming experience, and I'm still trying to absorb it to some extent. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM Date: 15 Oct 2000 17:44:10 EDT When I listened back to the AMM show on my minidisc I realized at the end of their hour long set it took people over a minute to come to grip with reality and start clapping. The longest space between band-ending/audience-clapping I ever experienced. I didn't know this at the time because I went into such a deep trance during their set. Kudos to Duo Process as well. That shit was wild! I wish I knew free ice cream was going around. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sergio luque" Subject: Re: 1 masada is enough Date: 15 Oct 2000 17:50:38 -0500 Nudeants@aol.com: >there are definitely musicians who think of music > as 'styles' and people who think of music as >'music.' and what about the listeners who definitely think of music as 'styles' and the listeners who think of music as 'music'(whether they like this music or not)? do musicians who definitely think of music as music make music in different styles? >But my favorite Zorn projects are those that >transcend 'styles' and get to 'music.' Torture >Garden, which admittedly has its jump-cutting >through styles at some points, at some points?!?!? come on! ;-) seriously, for me it is interesting that zorn has the luxury of choosing the genre or genres that best suit his compositional needs. and i envy that. while, for many composers, this is not an option (and may seem insincere or superficial), all of them compose in a genre (following some rules of what to do and what not to do), even xenakis :-)(which for me represents, i don't know why, some kind of out-of-those-things-called-genres music). what is zorn trying to achieve with his genre of 'mixing a lot of genres in the same piece' in pieces like _carny_? in this piece, the jump-cutting is pretty obvious but, imho, the important part is somewhere else, and this use of this genre intrigues me. regards, __________________________________________________ sergio luque sergio@tomate.com.mx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Style?(was Masada) Date: 15 Oct 2000 19:48:58 EDT >But my favorite Zorn projects are those that transcend 'styles' and get to 'music.' What's the difference? Is Robert Johnson just playing the blues? Is A Love Supreme or Kind of Blue just modal jazz? Is Bach just writing fugues? Are Zorn's "cut and paste" compositions just Stalling rip-offs? There's so much "music" out there that transcends a the "style" which it encompasses. And within each style isn't there unlimited possibilities. Is rock music Zappa, Hanson, or Peter Gabriel? We can be extremely nit picky and label every bit of every album or except it for what it is...music...unless you feel "World Music" is a viable genre. Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: rose moss king long Date: 16 Oct 2000 09:29:46 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "kurt" == kurt gottschalk writes: kurt> some great things this week... kurt> jon rose wednesday night at tonic, with mark dresser(bass, kurt> who actually seemed to be leading the quartet), tomas kurt> ulrich(cello) and a phenomenal violinist first-named mari. kurt> i'm sure someone will fill in the blank for me. Mari Kimura? kurt> [...] a brilliant violinist i'd never heard kurt> before. deep, deep stuff. challenging listening. If it is Kimura, she has a number recorded appearances; the two I've heard and can very much recommend are _Acoustics_ with Henry Kaiser, Jim O'Rourke and John Oswald (Victo) and _Irrefragable Dreams_ with Robert Dick (Random Acoustics). For more info see http://pages.nyu.edu/~mk4/ (which however seems to be two and a half years out of date). --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: 1 masada is enough Date: 16 Oct 2000 09:28:44 +0200 > Masada seems like a lengthy exploration of a couple of specific 'styles.' It > feels more like they are playing the Ornette/middle eastern(whatever you want > to call it) style combination than transcending the limitations of the style > definition and getting to the underlying music. I see what you mean, however I must say that 'they are playong Ornette middle eastern style combination' is too simplistic. If you add Stravinsky to the mix, it'd be ok, but the phrase would not sound that evident any more ;-). > Miles' group and the Ornette group did this, however. They new that on a > certain level they were playing 'jazz,' but that on the most important level > they were playing music. That's all I meant. Well, masada at its best is really, really incredible. I like it better then Ornette's bands (although i'd say it has not yet reached the levelof miles's 60s and 70s bands) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Help New Yorkers... Date: 13 Oct 2000 13:29:56 -0700 (PDT) I see Masada is playing New York on December 9th (according to Davedouglas.com). Can someone please tell me the venue and when I can purchase tickets? I live in Florida, but I'm going to fly to see the show. Thanks in advance... ===== -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: Robert Reigle Date: 14 Oct 2000 10:59:18 EDT In a message dated 10/13/00 11:11:17 AM, you wrote: <> Ah, Unspeakable Powers on Friday the 13th :) Robert Reigle is an ethnomusicologist, having spent many years documenting the ethnic music of many of the nearly-thousand different-language speaking groups in Papua New Guinea. He's published much on the music of PNG including field recordings included on CDs in academic ethnomusicological journals. We'll be putting out several discs of field recordings shortly. As an improvising saxophonist, his first disc was his group Surrealestate, with handdrawn covers, and he had the distinction of having the first label listed in the wonderful old New Music Distribution Service catalog: Aardwoof Records. The three Aardwoof LPs are in short supply but available directly from Reigle himself at rreigle@ucla.edu. His second LP was a solo saxophone disc, and the third was "The Marriage of Heaven and Earth," one side reissued on the CD of the same title on Acoustic Levitation AL-1002. One side featured the lamented Steve McCall on drums. The neat thing about the CD, despite my love of vinyl, is that on CD the remastered title track is finally able to function as composed, without LP channel bleedthrough: two discreet channels, to be played separately or simultaneously. One channel has a slowly building crescendo of extreme saxes; the other a tenor sax improv to the other channel. Reigle travelled to Italy to spend some time staying with composer Giacinto Scelsi, this before Scelsi's current fame, with only one disc available. Reigle's premiered, transcribed, and/or recorded Scelsi compositions some on his new disc. A track from the newest incarnation of Surrealestate, with its own new disc, is available in the CD included in the latest issue of Bananafish magazine. Steve Koenig n.p.--Gene Chandler "Get Down" neon pink vinyl 12" Pye/20th Century - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: 1 masada is enough Date: 16 Oct 2000 03:37:37 EDT Someone once suggested that there are two kinds of approaches to art: One is to constantly reinvent context, the other to find a groove and work it like a coalmine. I don't think one is better than the other. I think also, especially in Zorn's case, the challenge of keeping a regular band fresh and grooving is challenge enough. skip heller NP: Trio Los Panchos, 15 EXITOS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 16 Oct 2000 19:53:45 +0930 Can anyone tell me why NC stopped doing their thing? Case NP:some crap review disc "Alma Matters" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Do others have difficulty explaining to people what they like about all the Avant stuff? Date: 16 Oct 2000 19:53:42 +0930 My friends are constantly saying "how the hell can you listen to that" Im surprised by how unwilling most people are to "try somethingnew" , = and to "give it a fair hearing" Case NP: a realy crap review cd. "Alma Matters" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ari" Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 16 Oct 2000 14:45:05 +0200 As far as I know: 1) because the members had almost no more time left for other projects; 2) they didn't like the audience asking them to play the NC-"hits" again and again... So a possible question could be: why is Masada still going on? (Not that I don't like it, but...). I think we discussed that on the list a few months ago. > Can anyone tell me why NC stopped doing their thing? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 16 Oct 2000 06:26:00 -0700 (PDT) I have been listening to xu feng non-stop since I got it last week. I think this album finally captures what his game pieces are all about, and it is heavy. That is the first thing that attracted me to zorn was that he wasnt out there full of fluff, he spoke through a heavy genre skipping style that really drew me in. Xu Feng has knocked me for a loop on so many different levels. Yesterday I as marveling at the album design, I decided to see what was underneath the cd tray, what do you know, a little description of structure of the game piece. Of course, I had to listen to it again while looking at the secret inlay. I was wondering > what > specific pieces or albums other list members feel are his most > important > contributions, not necessarily your favorite album. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Bailey/Prevost (no Zorn content) Date: 16 Oct 2000 06:29:01 -0700 > From: "Jesse Kudler" > Subject: Bailey/Prevost (no Zorn content) > > Probably of interest to at least a few people: While looking around the > AMM/Matchless website, I just noticed that Derek Bailey and Eddie Prevost > have a duo album due out this fall (which I take to mean any day now) on a > label I've never heard of, San Wired. Anyone have more info? > > - -Jesse Eddie Prevost has the name of the label wrong on his site. The label is Arrival Records, a new label started by Ron de Jong, the percussionist from Vertrek Ensemble (whose new album with Eugene Chadbourne is very good, by the way -- one of my favorite Chadbourne releases). The EuroFreeImprov site has the right label in the Bailey discography section. I'm not sure when the album will be out; there will be another release coming at the same time by a band from Montreal, and while the Bailey/Prevost material (disc, cover) is ready to go to the manufacturer, the other one isn't. It should, hopefully, be very soon. I've heard the album (I wrote the liner notes for it), and it is extremely good. But then again, how could you expect less from Bailey and Prevost? It is quite quiet and introspective -- more than I was initially expecting. I'll keep you posted on when it is coming out. Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hywel Davies Subject: holly palmer/slop shop Date: 16 Oct 2000 06:54:50 -0700 (PDT) anyone know if the Holly Palmer who sings backing vocals with David Bowie at present, is the same Holly Palmer who works with Human Feel and Cuong Vu? just curious... also, anyone know anything about a german guy called Peter Schwalm? he records under the name Slop Shop, and has a new cd out called Makrodelia 2; the tracks i heard were very good, sort of spacey 70's Miles meets eno meets late Talk talk... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Do others have difficulty explaining to people what they like Date: 16 Oct 2000 10:12:48 -0400 At 7:53 PM +0930 10/16/00, sinkas wrote: >My friends are constantly saying "how the hell can you listen to that" >Im surprised by how unwilling most people are to "try somethingnew" , and to >"give it a fair hearing" I've found an interesting way around it. Mainly it's involved playing it at a low volume (non-Absinthe Naked City) so that it's not overpowering. After gradual exposure, the people who are open to it will ask about it. This worked with a number of people in one of my former jobs--people were overworked, exhausted, and somewhat bitter. I got into a loop of playing _Radio_, _Torture Garden_, and Painkiller over and over. After a week or two of this, some people started asking about Eye--what CD was that, could I play that one again a little louder so they could hear it, could I make this or that scream into a beep sound for them? (I did.) Granted, this wouldn't necessarily work in many places--this workplace in question was quite loud--but it's worth a shot. It might help if the people you're trying to expose have some negative energy to work out, are going through tough times, or have a developed sense of the absurd. I wouldn't play it for my in-laws, for example, but I have played it for friends and nieces and nephews. I got varying reactions, some surprisingly positive. The quick-change and screaming tunes seemed to get the best response, for some reason... And while my wife probably wouldn't reach for the Naked City CDs right off the bat, she does have a real fondness for "American Psycho" and a number of other Eye tunes. -Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: kimura Date: 16 Oct 2000 11:02:47 -0500 kurt> jon rose wednesday night at tonic, with mark dresser(bass, kurt> who actually seemed to be leading the quartet), tomas kurt> ulrich(cello) and a phenomenal violinist first-named mari. kurt> i'm sure someone will fill in the blank for me. steve> Mari Kimura? that's the one. great player. kg: nadha salerno-sonnenberg sergio and odair assad - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "matt krefting" Subject: Re: AMM Date: 16 Oct 2000 11:05:09 EDT yeah, i don't know quite what to say about it. i almost died on the ride back i was still so spaced. haven't listened to the tape yet, still trying to come to grips w/ my memory of it (which may never happen so i might as well listen to the tape, eh?). um, see, you try to talk about things like this and you turn into a blabbering idiot (at least i do). i just can't think of a listening experience that rivals what went on the other night. it didn't seem like a minute before we started clapping, either, 20 seconds, tops. hot damn... m Jon wrote: just back from Autumn Uprising. AMM last night was the best improv set I've ever seen, not counting the 24 hour MIMEO show. I'll wait for other people to post about the show before I say more; it was a pretty overwhelming experience, and I'm still trying to absorb it to some extent. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - OnionPalac@aol.com wrote: When I listened back to the AMM show on my minidisc I realized at the end of their hour long set it took people over a minute to come to grip with reality and start clapping. The longest space between band-ending/audience-clapping I ever experienced. I didn't know this at the time because I went into such a deep trance during their set. Kudos to Duo Process as well. That shit was wild! I wish I knew free ice cream was going around. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution? Date: 16 Oct 2000 08:06:19 -0700 > > I was wondering > > what > > specific pieces or albums other list members feel are his most > > important > > contributions, not necessarily your favorite album. > Personally, I think Tzadik and Avant are his most important contributions. William Crump PS: Runners-up would be the Masada songbook, "Leng T'che" and The Big Gundown (original release). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Antibalas/FBI anuncio Date: 16 Oct 2000 12:33:50 -0500 Neues Kabarett presents Antibalas and Female Bureau of Investigation On Saturday, November 4 at 9 pm, a special performance will benefit ongoing music events at The Brecht Forum. The event is $8-12 at 122 West 27th Street, 10th Floor, between 6th and 7th Avenues in Manhattan. For information call 212-567-0780 or 212-242-4201 or reply to this email. Antibalas 10:30 pm - the next generation of Afro-beat in the spirit of the "Black President," Fela Anikulapo-Kuti. This fifteen piece band hits hard with the left and right -- monstrous horns and bass layered over funky polyrhythmic beats and breaks coupled with furious lyrics challenging and attacking the dehumanizing capitalist system and inciting insurrection in English, Yoruba and Spanish. Along with their weekly show at No Moore in Tribeca, the band has recently performed at Celebrate Brooklyn!, BAMcafe and the DUMBO Arts Festival. Female Bureau of Investigation 9:00 pm - originally an all female band, FBI gradually morphed into its current mixed-gender status. The group features Sasha Sumner dropping funky rap over hip hop beats with cool melodic vocal and sax lines. Her quirky lyrics are straight from the heart of fem-funk-ville and her sax breaths space into deep grooves. FBI also features Jennifer Turner on guitar, Mike Levy on bass, Peter Basil on percussion and Inx Herman on Drums. BACKGROUND: The Brecht Forum is a place for people who are working for fundamental social change and a new culture that puts human needs first. Offerings range from classes, forums and panel discussions to concerts, art exhibits, poetry readings and theatrical events. Volunteers at the Brecht Forum have developed the loft into a thriving venue for both emerging and established artists. The Neues Kabarett music series has presented monthly concerts with such artists as William Parker, Marc Ribot, Eugene Chadbourne, Joe McPhee, Joe Maneri, Tim Berne, Christine Bard, Tom Abbs, Mat Maneri, Susie Ibarra, Roy Campbell and others since it was launched in October 1998. Volunteers have worked to build the physical space to support arts programming by raising funds for a new sound system, piano, lighting and other needs. The Antibalas/FBI concert will benefit the continuation of these projects. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ethan Subject: Re: Prague/Amsterdam/Finland (no jz) Date: 16 Oct 2000 13:04:21 -0400 (EDT) in amsterdam there's the staalplaat store, which will have all kinds of good stuff. the address I think is staalkade 6. http://staalplaat.com ethan > > Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:11:41 EDT > From: Orangejazz@aol.com > Subject: Prague/Amsterdam/Finland (no jz) > > I have a friend who is going to the afformentioned places, and I'd like for > him to pick me up some strange/avant-garde music.I'm not currently aware of > any good record stores in the area, and maybe particular musicians that are > related to the scene. Is that whole Mego scene going on in that area? Well, > regardless. This is moderately un-related to Zorn, so feel free to Email me > privately, as soon as possible, being that this person is leaving tonight. > from, > matt > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 16 Oct 2000 13:01:53 -0500 Ari wrote: > As far as I know: > > 1) because the members had almost no more time left for other projects; > 2) they didn't like the audience asking them to play the NC-"hits" again and > again... "This band was basically a composition workshop. When I stopped hearing/writing for the band, we broke up. Compositionally the challenge I set for myself was to see how much I could come up with given the limitations of the simple sax, guitar, keyboard, bass, drums format. These are, as promised, our last live performances." - John Zorn, from the program booklet for the September 1993 month-long observation of Zorn's 40th birthday. > So a possible question could be: why is Masada still going on? (Not that I > don't like it, but...). I think we discussed that on the list a few months > ago. Masada performed a set of "last live shows" at the Knit - Zorn announced this from the stage, after throwing a jacket over the club's webcam so the shows would be "just for us," exclusively for those present (this was shortly after Zorn had been made aware that the cameras were webcasting 24-7, including soundchecks and private conversations.) But some months later, according to Dave Douglas (who told me this firsthand - no hearsay involved), Zorn started accepting engagements for the quartet again "because it was so much fun." In other words, Masada continues mainly because Zorn enjoys it. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - cars splashing through rain puddles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Style?(was Masada) Date: 16 Oct 2000 13:26:45 EDT In a message dated 10/15/00 7:49:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, User384726@aol.com writes: << What's the difference? Is Robert Johnson just playing the blues? Is A Love Supreme or Kind of Blue just modal jazz? Is Bach just writing fugues? Are Zorn's "cut and paste" compositions just Stalling rip-offs? There's so much "music" out there that transcends a the "style" which it encompasses. And within each style isn't there unlimited possibilities. Is rock music Zappa, Hanson, or Peter Gabriel? We can be extremely nit picky and label every bit of every album or except it for what it is...music...unless you feel "World Music" is a viable genre. >> I'm actually a little unclear on what you're asking here. Your last sentence seems to think that I want style to have a name; this is most definitely not what I meant. I know that there's plenty of music that transcends the style it encompasses; I just emphatically feel that Masada does not fit that description. There are unlimited possibilities everywhere in music, I agree, but it's the inability of some music to escape its stylistic chains that makes it difficult for me to accept it as pure music, as opposed to jazz, classical or whatever style one would use to describe it. Style is purely an after the fact construct used to discuss music. Its when we as musicians or listeners start doing it backwards, letting the style dictate the music, that we're missing what I feel to be the 'point.' This is the danger I feel SOME of Zorn's projects fall into sometimes; they kind of glaze over styles in a superficial manner. Moreover, a huge percentage of jazz players seem to come up learning jazz and playing it as a style as opposed to learning and playing it as if it was music. They're too firmly entrenched in the stylistic 'conventions,' which is really an after the fact surface level description of what comprises the music they think they're studying. This is true for styles or genres across the board, not just jazz. This is not to say that there aren't people in 'jazz' that are free of this way of thinking, or that its not possible; its just that I don't think that there are that many, and that those who DECIDE they're 'jazz' or 'alternative' or whatever are not usually making what I consider to be interesting music. 'Avant garde' has begun falling into this trap as well, especially in the past 5 or 6 years. It admittedly allows for a wider range of expressive options, though. Additionally, as listeners, having a stylistic view of music ultimately limits what music can and will do for us. -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: crump's contributions Date: 16 Oct 2000 13:31:06 -0500 crump gave: > The Big Gundown (original release). the nod for one of jz's best works. which makes me wonder... why the original, wc? kg np: christian kiefer - welcome to hard times - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Xu Feng (was Re: Most important Zorn contribution?) Date: 16 Oct 2000 13:38:50 -0500 jason tors wrote: > I have been listening to xu feng non-stop since I got it last week. I > think this album finally captures what his game pieces are all about, > and it is heavy. I've only had a chance to listen to a bit of this but will give my "so far" second recommendation to its strength. Hadn't noticed the sub-rosa "rules," thanks for the tip. Liner notes by Zorn offer an interesting distinction between "amateur/outlaw" performances and composer-led "authorized versions." Somewhat monomaniacal, but illuminating given the regional Cobra-related problems that have been discussed here before. Also exciting - and not really discussed here before to my knowledge - is that the release of 'Xu Feng' is subtitled 'John Zorn's Game Pieces, Volume 1,' implying a series of some/all of the missing pieces. There's a comprehensive list of 27 such pieces in the liners, some of the earliest of which were of course included in the 'Parachute Years' box set. The release marks the inauguration of a sub-series within the Tzadik Archival Series, titled Olympiad. How appropo... If I were to try to give voice to "Zorn's most important contribution" (like that's possible), it's his refusal to distinguish between high art and popular art in the cration of his personal aesthetic - i.e., that there's no implicit difference between Kagel, Carl Stalling, John Barry, Ornette Coleman and Napalm Death. He's hardly alone in this, but it's a cornerstone of his work, and puts him squarely in the American maverick tradition alongside Ives and Partch. And 'The Big Gundown' was a landmark record in my own personal development, for damn sure. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - John Hollenbeck, "The Drum Major Instinct," 'No Images' (CD-R; CRI release Feb. 2001) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson Subject: Re: 1 masada is enough Date: 16 Oct 2000 13:45:41 +0100 skip heller (0Velaires@aol.com) wrote: > Someone once suggested that there are two kinds of approaches to art: One is > to constantly reinvent context, the other to find a groove and work it like a > coalmine. I don't think one is better than the other. I think also, > especially in Zorn's case, the challenge of keeping a regular band fresh and > grooving is challenge enough. the operative concept here, to take what you said a little further, comes from post-structuralism and intertextuality. every musical idea has a precedent, whether direct or indirect; every 'new' idea in art is a synthesis of that which came before. there are giants in music who manage to perform the most awesome syntheses, and there are wannabes who are eagerly trotting in yesterday's well-worn path. the difference is of course subjective but at least in a critical sense it can be evaluated. i was re-reading a daniel carter interview i did last year, and daniel had it pretty well figured out. to speak of musical 'heroes' (as he was reluctant to do) is to ignore all the little guys who made their work possible. comparing zorn to ornette or miles or cecil is only relevant on the idea level; their output differs so dramatically and the social context in which they developed their music obviously quite distinct. collaborators obviously made a huge difference as well. (think of ornette without don cherry or charlie haden; those early records just wouldn't be the same.) in terms of synthesis, imho, zorn ranks up there among the 'greats' of 1990s music. but then you have to consider where he would be without the bill frisells and the joey barons and the rest of his crew. give him credit for getting great bands together, but give *them* credit for playing masterfully. n - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 16 Oct 2000 13:27:10 -0400 On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 02:45:05PM +0200, Ari wrote: > As far as I know: > > 1) because the members had almost no more time left for other projects; > 2) they didn't like the audience asking them to play the NC-"hits" again and > again... > > So a possible question could be: why is Masada still going on? (Not that I > don't like it, but...). I think we discussed that on the list a few months > ago. Which leads me to wonder: does Masada have any "hits" or at least favorite tunes common across their listeners? You'd think that any band with 10 studio albums and a handful of live ones would have put out a compilation album by now. (Though actually a greatest hits album from Zorn himself would probably explode from trying to stuff too many disparate things on it at once.) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com Subject: Jon Rose, Ladonna Smith & others Boston Oct.22 Date: 16 Oct 2000 14:35:36 EDT Hey Zorn listers, Several people have emailed me about a post to the zorn list a few weeks ago (forwarded to you by Steve Koenig apparently) about this show I'm putting on for Jon Rose, LaDonna Smith, Harald Kimmig/Carl Hubsch duo and Saturnalia String Quartet, so I thought it might make sese to repost this. Seems like there's been some talk about Rose lately and his killer Strung Fest at Tonic, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more banter about LaDonna. LaDonna Smith came up in Birmingham, AL along with alto saxophonist Wally Shoup and guitarist Davey Williams (Curlew, etc), who she has maintained an improvising duo with for over 20 years. (They are also co-editors of The Improvisor magazine). Both Davey and LaDonna have done a fair amount of work with Zorn, Chadbourne and others associated with the "Downtown Scene" over the years, but are not as well documented as many. At any rate, LaDonna has a COMPLETELY unique, wild and unrestrained approach to violin/viola and voice and is a consumate improvisor. She runs a monthly improv series in Birmingham, but rarely leaves Alabama for U.S. tour stops (concentrating mostly on foreign tours), so I'm really psyched that she's gonna make the trip to Boston. Also, the german team of Kimmig and Hubsch are noteworthy for their unique blend of violin and tuba (!) as well as their fine work with Cecil Taylor, Peter Kowald, Lester Bowie and many others. And Saturnalia has collaborated with Daniel Carter, Peter Kowald, Elliott Sharp, Roger Miller, and many others. Here's the latest low-down on the throw down (below). Hope folks can join us! Jonathan LaMaster Sublingual Records and Sedimental Present: The First Annual Boston International String Improvisors Festival 7pm to 10pm, Sun. Oct. 22 @ First Parish of Cambrisdge (Unitarian), 3 Church St (corner of Mass. Ave), Harvard Square, Cambridge, MA. $10, ALL AGES welcome, Advance Tickets NOW AVAILABLE at Twisted Village Records in Harvard Square, Cambridge. (617)354-6898 Info@sublingual.com, www.sublingual.com, 781-388-9855 FEATURING: 7pm: Saturnalia String Quartet (from Boston, violin, cello & 2 basses) 7:45pm: Jon Rose 8:30pm: Harald Kimmig/Carl Ludwig Hübsch (violin/tuba duo from Germany) 8:45pm: LaDonna Smith 9:30pm: impromptu collaborations Saturnalia String Trio/Quartet: http://www.sublingual.com Jon Rose: http://www.euronet.nl/users/jrviolin/index.html LaDonna Smith http://www.the-improvisor.com/transmuseq/ladonna/ Harald Kimmig (violin) & Carl Ludwig Hübsch (tuba) http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-huebsccah RADIO PREVIEWS OF STRING FEST (Listen to these for Ticket Giveaways!) Tuesday 10/17/00 from 10pm -1am, Continuous Drift" NCP II WZBC - 90.3 fm streaming audio at www.wzbc.org Thursday 10/19/00 at 11am WHRB - 95.3 fm Sunday 10/22/00 - 9am to 11am - Hush that Fuss WZBC - 90.3 fm streaming audio at www.wzbc.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Jon Rose, Ladonna Smith & others Boston Oct.22 Date: 16 Oct 2000 14:07:41 -0400 On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 02:35:36PM -0400, JoLaMaSoul@aol.com wrote: > LaDonna Smith came up in Birmingham, AL along with alto saxophonist Wally > Shoup and guitarist Davey Williams (Curlew, etc), who she has maintained an > improvising duo with for over 20 years. (They are also co-editors of The > Improvisor magazine). Both Davey and LaDonna have done a fair amount of work > with Zorn, Chadbourne and others associated with the "Downtown Scene" over > the years, but are not as well documented as many. At any rate, LaDonna has > a COMPLETELY unique, wild and unrestrained approach to violin/viola and voice > and is a consumate improvisor. She runs a monthly improv series in > Birmingham, but rarely leaves Alabama for U.S. tour stops (concentrating > mostly on foreign tours), so I'm really psyched that she's gonna make the > trip to Boston. I'll also add that jamming with LaDonna at last year's Deep Listening retreat (as well as other stuff there) completely spun my ears around as to the possibilities of vocal improvisation. She's a definite force of nature, and not to be missed. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: crump's contributions Date: 16 Oct 2000 12:13:05 -0700 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > crump gave: > > > The Big Gundown (original release). > > the nod for one of jz's best works. which makes me wonder... why the original, > wc? > By golly, Kurt, I'm pleased you noticed, and glad you asked. I just think the original Gundown was very close to a perfect work as it was, and while none of the extra tracks on the 15th anniversary reissue are less than wonderful, they just seem to dilute the incredible impact of those original ten tracks. I wouldn't have minded at all if the new tracks had gone onto Filmworks 9 or some other catchall release. Plus I have a bone to pick with the ghastly booklet /package layout/design in the reissue. If only Ikue Mori had done it, I'm sure I would have liked it better. The original Gundown was no beauty in the design department, either, but... Anyway, that's why. William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: Prelapse Tonight! Date: 16 Oct 2000 15:45:15 EDT Fellow New Yorkers, don't forget Prelapse plays tonight at Don Hill's!! You MUST see them live! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: duchamp Date: 16 Oct 2000 17:37:31 EDT In a message dated 10/16/00 2:09:59 PM, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp >> Joe's Duchamp quote reminded me of one of the most interesting things that Keith Rowe told me this weekend. he said that for a long time, the world of jazz/improv has been divided into pre-Coltrane and post-Coltrane. but with this recent wave of improvisers who come from disparate backgrounds and cultures, many from outside of jazz, he feels that the important dividing line has now become 1917, pre and post Duchamp. just thought I'd pass that on... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philip Clarkson Subject: Sly Date: 16 Oct 2000 23:22:24 +0100 > also a rumor went around ages ago that columbia, when it first > put out sly on CD, did a mistake and put out alternate takes > which was quickly withdrawn.... any confirmations or info? The rumours are true - well they are over here in the UK. The CD version of "Fresh" available here is completely different to the US version -the UK edition seems to be demos or out-takes - the sound is pretty muddy, the tempos are different, horn parts are omitted or extra ones added. It's fascinating listening, and still a fantastic album. The UK version is still easily available - I read in "Mojo" magazine a while ago that it would be replaved by the official version eventually - maybe when Sly's back-catalogue is remastered they will combine the two...? Phil Clarkson phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: 2 tickets for music of Masada Date: 16 Oct 2000 18:56:07 -0400 Hello All, I have two tickets for music of Masada concert today in Merkin Hall at 8 pm. I know that it is late, but if anybody wants them by chance I can give them. I'm not going to go there but I'm close to it. If you are interested write me back ASAP or call me at 212 666 9062. Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Do others have difficulty explaining to people what they like about all the Avant stuff? Date: 16 Oct 2000 20:07:32 -0400 I've found a some what successful introduction to Avant music for my friends. I take into account the musical tastes of the person first. I then choose a CD that has related genres. My friends who enjoy jazz, Masada or Sex Mob. My rock friends, Naked City. If I had a friend who liked classical, Masada Chamber. Electronic or Movie Music, Big Gundown. With the Naked City introduction, I let a couple tracks with Eye slip. I keep pushing the envelope until they have reached a certain comfort level with the music. I then present "weirder" albums. There are albums that I wouldn't share, though. Notably: Patton's solo work, Elegy, Classic Guide to Strategy. I've enjoyed a certain amount of success. I hooked my friend who had a wide background of musical tastes, she loves swing, Morphine, Radio Head, Classical, but not "jazz". I introduced her to Zorn after she studied Morricone in a film class unit. I then gave her some Naked City to listen to, surprisingly she loved Eye. She loved Masada right off the bat, too. Now I just keep throwing things at her and she loves it. Her favorite is the Big Gundown. Another way that I found is give people CDs as gifts. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: greg kelley's TRUMPET (review) Date: 16 Oct 2000 23:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Greg Kelley - TRUMPET (Meniscus, 2000) [Kelley, unaccompanied trumpet] I'd like to belated second or third the praise of this remarkable disc. I can only add a few descriptive details and a personal impression. The album is just over 40 minutes, twelve tracks ranging from seventen second to ten minutes, most untitled. The recording is extremely close-miked and dry, which perhaps serves to draw our attention to the sound-material "itself", not to "replicate" an "actual" venue or space, but to perhaps focus as closely as possible on the recording as a "pure" document. So I then infer that there are no electronics used, aside from the careful attentions of the microphone(s). (Liners would have helped, but there are none, save a note or two on the fact that the recordings were made about four months ago.) Now, all this process talk might be artificial, except for the sheer disturbing _abundance_ of sounds that the man squeezes out of the horn. The album title almost seems like irony. The opening track is a blistering metal-onmetal stifled screaming, with fascinating tiny variations in timbre. Other tracks feature an approach that almost seems like Joe McPhee textural puckered hiss on pocket trumpet. That's an instrumental comparison for the sake of reference, though: such a comparison doesn't hold up too well when you _hear_ the incredible variety of puckers, hisses, slap-tongues and multiple-tongueings, vocalizations (I think), mute-play, preparations (???), and wildly bent notes. There are glitch-fast jump cuts and disruptive percussive gestures, the occasional sound of metal scraping metal, "empty" valve-click runs, and all manner of embouchural contortion. Finally, though the most exciting and relevant thing is that the end result is far more than a catalog of extended techniques. The use of space and dynamic drama makes for a wildly discontinuous, profoundly thoughtful, but really visceral listening experience. I found myself moved emotionally by the music. Invigorating and challenging, but well worth the trip. Thanks to those of you who mentioned this album. -----s, enthusiast __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Delerue's "Contempt" Date: 17 Oct 2000 21:53:13 +1000 I know there are a few cds out there with selections from Delerue's "Contempt", but the titles of these cds have slipped my mind. I know there is one track on the soundtrack to "Casino", but I'd prefer to find a cd with a few tracks... Can anyone enlighten me? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 17 Oct 2000 22:21:48 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C03888.A443FA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Zorn-listers, As we all know Zorn has quite a large discography. Hence it can be quite = a difficult and daunting task for the newbie is attempting to navigate = through the often confusing terrain which comprises Zorn's body of work. = That being the case, are there any Zorn albums which are best avoided? = Does anyone have any feelings regarding what they consider to be the = worst Zorn release(s)? Thanks, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C03888.A443FA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Zorn-listers,
 
As we all know Zorn has quite a large discography. Hence it can be = quite a=20 difficult and daunting task for the newbie is attempting to navigate = through the=20 often confusing terrain which comprises Zorn's body of work. That being = the=20 case, are there any Zorn albums which are best avoided? Does anyone have = any=20 feelings regarding what they consider to be the worst Zorn = release(s)?
 
Thanks,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C03888.A443FA40-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 17 Oct 2000 23:36:31 +1000 << As we all know Zorn has quite a large discography. Hence it can be quite a difficult and daunting task for the newbie is attempting to navigate through the often confusing terrain which comprises Zorn's body of work. That being the case, are there any Zorn albums which are best avoided? Does anyone have any feelings regarding what they consider to be the worst Zorn release(s)? >> Just like asking for "the best" releases, it depends on your taste. Some people like to avoid Cobra cds, since it is much better seen live. There are 2 albums that come to mind that people generally seem to agree on that aren't so hot: "Nani Nani" (with Yamatsuka Eye) and the infamous guest spot with the Intergalactic Maiden Ballet (I haven't actually heard it myself due to all the warnings). "Nani Nani" actually has it's moment(s) but generally it's just Zorn and Eye screwing around... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nuno Barreiro Subject: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 17 Oct 2000 13:02:06 +0100 Hello, I bought the first Masada when it came out, and the same happened with the next 2. Then I heard (in this list, by the way) that you could get the Masada 4 by sending the coupons of the first 3 to some adress in Japan... I did it and got my Masada 4 for free. At that point I was very happy, owning 4 Masada CDs which were very similar (musically and in the package), and I was waiting for the next ones. Of course I was convinced that the next Masadas would be completely different from this first ones. And then came Masada 5, and 6, and 7, and 8, and I just kept buying, waiting for the musical revolution that would come out of there. But that never happened... No musical revolution, no nothing. Just plain jazz (yes, that's right) and not particulary interesting... Any tune of the "Spy vs. Spy" album is more revolutionary than the entire Masada series. I stoped buying the Masada albums (with some difficulty, because of this urge to collect some of you may also know, but as a personal protest against the general lack of quality). Whatever Zorn is aiming at is not being achieved (except, perhaps, the part of having fun). One of the posts said that he was planning to write a songbook, like Monk. Of course this is a joke... As any comparison with Miles is also a joke. But, speaking about Monk and Miles, take a look at their music over any period of 5 years and see how it changes. When it comes to Masada we have the same now as 5 years ago!!! Comparing with Ornette Coleman is much more interesting, since Masada is playing, essentially, O.C. music with an oriental flavor. But the genial inspiration that led to the re-interpretation of O.C.s music in"Spy vs. Spy" has vanished, and we are not left with much. Well, this is my opinion on Masada. Of course I like Zorn's music (or wouldn't be in this list) but my favourites would be: Big Gundown, the first Naked City, Spillane, Spy vs. Spy and the "Cat'o nine tails" quartet (in some Kronos Quartet album, I don't remember which). Nuno - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 18 Oct 2000 00:52:36 +1000 > And then came Masada 5, and 6, and 7, and 8, and I > just kept buying, waiting for the musical revolution > that would come out of there. But that never > happened... No musical revolution, no nothing. Just > plain jazz (yes, that's right) and not particulary > interesting... Any tune of the "Spy vs. Spy" album > is more revolutionary than the entire Masada series. I'm confused... surely there must have been something there for you, or you would have stopped at one or two? Masada for me has always been more about the band interaction than the "songbook". But since you say they are all the same, "just plain jazz", I also have to disagree on that point. I must admit I am slightly surprised Zorn never got bored, added a guest to one of the albums or something, but the material is far from all the same. I remember my first impressions when I heard the different Masada albums, and it was always that he was obviously keeping unity while at the same time exploring tangents of the same theme (for example, Masada 6 has been referred to as "the jazzy one" from time to time by people on this list)... But I guess you'd be right in saying nothing majorly revolutionary happened after the first few. You might want to check out Dave Douglas' Tiny Bell Trio for a similar blend of jazz and European styles, but with a bit more of an experimental edge... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 17 Oct 2000 10:29:58 EDT In a message dated 10/17/00 8:59:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 nbar@di.fc.ul.pt writes: > <<< waiting for the musical revolution>>>>>> John Zorn continually releases his Masada albums because he knows people lik= e=20 you will keep buying them. =A0=A0Seeing as how they are recorded live, they=20= are=20 extremely inexpensive to produce, and though it is not a mainstream band,=20 people buy it for their own reasons. =A0=A0i personally enjoy masada. =A0i h= ave not=20 bought them all because there is still so much music out there that i have=20 yet to experience. =A0But the whole point of this is, that Zorn has made it=20= to=20 a point where he can release anything he wants and people will buy it. =A0ta= ke=20 not only his masada work, but also his first recordings in 1973. =A0=A0lets=20= not=20 forget that in his game pieces that he is not concerned about how it=20 SOUNDS...he is concerned with how it works out. =A0i can only hope that one=20= day=20 i can release all my teenage f*ckarounds. =A0=A0=A0 <<>> me too. =A0discovering zorn's music was such an incredible thing for me.=20= =A0i=20 know that you folks know what i mean.=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 17 Oct 2000 10:16:40 -0400 On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 01:02:06PM +0100, Nuno Barreiro wrote: > Whatever Zorn is aiming at is not being achieved > (except, perhaps, the part of having fun). One of > the posts said that he was planning to write a > songbook, like Monk. Of course this is a joke... In what sense? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 17 Oct 2000 11:18:19 EDT In a message dated 10/17/00 8:38:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au writes: << "Nani Nani" (with Yamatsuka Eye) and the infamous guest spot with the Intergalactic Maiden Ballet (I haven't actually heard it myself due to all the warnings). "Nani Nani" actually has it's moment(s) but generally it's just Zorn and Eye screwing around... >> Interesting. Honestly, I'm not trying to sound contrary for its own sake, but I like Nani Nani quite a bit. I guess for me, I'd actually say Masada. Actually, I managed to hear Taboo and Exile, and that was definitely the album that convinced me that at this point I should definitely hear Zorn albums before buying them. Pretty much nothing redeeming for me there. I go to Zorn for compositional interest, of which there's 0 % on that album. It sounded like he wrote everything in the studio, and not in the editing/mixing kind of way, but in the 'I've got this recording date so I better tell these guys to do something' way. Other albums I like: Locus Solus, Book of Heads, Rebird, some of the String Quartets (Dead Man and Memento Mori), and the other I'd mentioned before. Oh, and Spy vs. Spy, too, which was my first Zorn, back in 9th grade at Christmas time. -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 17 Oct 2000 11:32:50 EDT In a message dated 00-10-17 08:59:59 EDT, you write: >And then came Masada 5, and 6, and 7, and 8, and I >just kept buying, waiting for the musical revolution >that would come out of there. Funny, I kept buying them because, oh, I dunno, I enjoy them? This idea of "importance" that's been being bandied around lately, of whether or not something is revoultionary, reactionary, original or derivative, strikes me as being much ado about nothing. While I have made it a point to hear something if someone I respect says they consider it important, it has been years since I've actually gone that next step and bought something just because it is supposedly important. I used to care that my collection be representative of the areas of music I cared about (back in my 20s, anyway). Now, I only seek out what I enjoy listening to. Important? History will decide that down the road. Masada lets you down? Then you are right not to buy it. I enjoy it, and would be happy to see still more recordings come out of it. Is some other music, maybe Derek Bailey's, more "important"? I have no idea, but from what I have listened to of his (exectly two recordings), I could care less, because I'd rather listen to a jackhammer. Or my 7-year-old's Backstreet Boys CDs, for that matter. Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: RE: what about speed ? Date: 17 Oct 2000 03:44:28 +0200 Hey Jason, Thanks for sharing. I've got "Deviantics". But I still have to enter into that disc. You know what I will do. I'll play it in my car as I drive to Myra Melford's Crush concert with Cuong Vu tonight. Looking forward to Alasnoaxis. Rob@llaert.nu |-----Original From: jason tors: |I have been checking out his quartet, yeah no, at tonic a bit, wow they |blow me completely away, especially coung vu on the trumpet. Check out |their latest disc, deviantics. The group does a great blend of tight |balkan inspired tunes, along with some firey groove/free |improvizations. | |A disc I am flipping out about these days is the new jim black [with |speed] alas no axis on w&w. The problem I find with that crew of |players [skuli, black, shepik, speed, sarin, coung vu, etc etc] is that |they all play so much together their seperate releases start sounding |very similar. | |> I didn't like "Iffy" too much either, but Speed's sound and melody |> with |> Pachora is majestic. He still has to prove that same level in other |> environments. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: Delerue's "Contempt" Date: 17 Oct 2000 08:46:09 -0700 on 10/17/00 4:53 AM, Julian at jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au wrote: > I know there are a few cds out there with selections from Delerue's > "Contempt", but the titles of these cds have slipped my mind. I know there > is one track on the soundtrack to "Casino", but I'd prefer to find a cd with > a few tracks... Can anyone enlighten me? > > > - > > There was (and still is?) a collection of early Godard films on one cd. It was issued in Japan in the mid-90's. Also you may find the piece in a best of Delerue collection. As far as I know I don't think there was ever a full-length album of the Contempt soundtrack. -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nuno Barreiro Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:05:00 +0100 Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 01:02:06PM +0100, Nuno Barreiro wrote: > > > Whatever Zorn is aiming at is not being achieved > > (except, perhaps, the part of having fun). One of > > the posts said that he was planning to write a > > songbook, like Monk. Of course this is a joke... > > In what sense? In the sense that anyone may easily produce such statements... One doesn't write a songbook with the intention of writing a songbook (at least when refering to jazz musicians). One writes songs and, eventually, the songs will become a songbook. It's not an absolute activity... It's like saying: "I am planing to write a few standards..." Nuno - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 17 Oct 2000 12:07:34 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > This idea of "importance" that's been being bandied around lately, of whether > or not something is revoultionary, reactionary, original or derivative, > strikes me as being much ado about nothing. > Now, I only seek out what I enjoy listening to. Important? History will I think for some people, these two areas probably largely overlap. I know that personally, I'm a very critical listener, and I usually don't enjoy music that seems derivative or strongly reminiscent of something I've heard before. I don't mean that in some kind of intellectual or analytical way; I just mean that music that sounds terribly familiar and/or doesn't offer a new challenge usually doesn't end up being interesting to listen to. > decide that down the road. Masada lets you down? Then you are right not to > buy it. I enjoy it, and would be happy to see still more recordings come out > of it. Is some other music, maybe Derek Bailey's, more "important"? I have no > idea, but from what I have listened to of his (exectly two recordings), I > could care less, because I'd rather listen to a jackhammer. Or my > 7-year-old's Backstreet Boys CDs, for that matter. Which two? Yeah, I would say Derek's quite "important," being one of the most significant guitarists of the century and a key figure in free improvisation for a long time. And I quite enjoy listening to almost all of his recordings that I've heard. As for the jackhammer comparisons, you should check out some acoustic Bailey, as he can frequently be quite lyrical. Try "Aida" if it's still floating around anywhere. You'd rather listen to the Backstreet Boys, yeesh. . . -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 12:09:59 EDT I'm really curious to hear other people's reactions to the AMM show in Boston on Saturday. I know there were more people from the list there than have spoken up as of yet... another interesting Keith Rowe tidbit: in a few weeks, he'll be travelling somewhere in Central Africa and jamming with pygmies. he didn't know whether he was going to need a generator, but he was sure that he couldn't play without electricity. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 17 Oct 2000 12:10:54 EDT In a message dated 10/17/00 12:03:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nbar@di.fc.ul.pt writes: << In the sense that anyone may easily produce such statements... One doesn't write a songbook with the intention of writing a songbook (at least when refering to jazz musicians). One writes songs and, eventually, the songs will become a songbook. It's not an absolute activity... It's like saying: "I am planing to write a few standards..." Nuno >> But Zorn has said in many interviews that writing a songbook WAS his intention. He WANTED to compile a series of songs that could be played by any ensemble. That was his goal. Just as a writer sits down and says, "I am going to write a series of stories with a certain theme (or setting or character or device) and compile them into a linked short story collection." Yes, you write one song/story at a time, but you do it within self-imposed parameters (Zorn -- the "Hassidic scales" for Masada; James Joyce -- all stories set in Dublin for "Dubliners") to achieve your ultimate goal. It gives one focus and direction, and, in my estimation, cohesion. I dig most of Zorn's catalogue. His game pieces, his hardcore, his experimental classical, his ambient, his straight-up jazz. Masada happens to be some of my favorite material that he's produced, but I can understand why some people may not favor it. But I'm surprised by how many people think it's some of his weaker work. Is it just a case of popularity-itis? Curious, Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 17 Oct 2000 11:30:28 -0400 On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 04:05:00PM +0100, Nuno Barreiro wrote: > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 01:02:06PM +0100, Nuno Barreiro wrote: > > > > > Whatever Zorn is aiming at is not being achieved > > > (except, perhaps, the part of having fun). One of > > > the posts said that he was planning to write a > > > songbook, like Monk. Of course this is a joke... > > > > In what sense? > > In the sense that anyone may easily produce such statements... > One doesn't write a songbook with the intention of writing a > songbook (at least when refering to jazz musicians). One > writes songs and, eventually, the songs will become a songbook. > It's not an absolute activity... > > It's like saying: "I am planing to write a few standards..." Well, no. Someone who has written a sufficient number of songs has written a songbook. It has nothing to do with quality. I'm seeing an odd occurance of late of people overloading terms such as "songbook", "styles", and even "music" with arbitrary and obscure connotations of quality which items must somehow attain to be deemed worthwhile of them. But in the sense that people actually use these words, they retain their simple, nonjudgmental meanings. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: AMM (request recs.) Date: 17 Oct 2000 12:25:00 -0400 For those of you who lost their socks and became slack-jawed in Boston this weekend: What AMM release compares to your experience this weekend? Anyone want to trade for a recording of the show? Let me know. Dan Hewins NP: Miles Davis 5tet (something) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM (request recs.) Date: 17 Oct 2000 12:54:55 EDT In a message dated 10/17/00 12:27:52 PM, dan@synsolutions.com writes: << What AMM release compares to your experience this weekend? >> none, really. when you go to the new Matchless web site (www.matchlessrecordings.com), the first thing you see is an unattributed quote: "With AMM, their albums are as alike or unalike as trees." which goes for their performances as well. but as far as where to start with their catalog, I'd say if you come from more of a jazz background, go with The Nameless Uncarved Block (the trio plus saxophonist Lou Gare), from a modern classical background, go with The Inexhaustible Document (the trio plus celiist Rohan de Saram of the Arditti Quartet). a good place to start listening to the trio by itself is Newfoundland. all of these are on Matchless. with AMM, more than maybe any other band I know, the more releases you've heard, the more you can grasp what they're doing. it took me maybe four releases and a few years to fully appreciate them. the way they communicate tends to be implicit more than explicit, and that can be a hard thing for a listener to deal with. but once you connect with what they're doing, it's incredibly rewarding. also, the tradition they've almost singlehandedly created over the last 35 years is very influential on the new wave of electroacoustic improvisers. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: what about speed ? Date: 17 Oct 2000 13:02:51 -0500 "|-----Original From: jason tors: > |I have been checking out his quartet, yeah no, at tonic a bit, wow they > |blow me completely away, especially coung vu on the trumpet. Check out > |their latest disc, deviantics. The group does a great blend of tight > |balkan inspired tunes, along with some firey groove/free > |improvizations. Just one point of clarification: the newest from yeah, no, released on Tuesday, October 10 here in the States, is "Emit." And to my ears it's the best so far. Compelling writing, compelling playing, compelling melodica from Mr. Black... Also, since you single out Cuong Vu for praise, I believe he has a new disc imminent on Knitting Factory records, with Stomu Takeishi and John Hollenbeck - this must be "Pure," the release Tom Benton saw on Amazon a while back. Downtown Music Gallery says it's still not out yet... > |> I didn't like "Iffy" too much either, but Speed's sound and melody > |> with > |> Pachora is majestic. He still has to prove that same level in other > |> environments. Speed's occasional clarinet playing with bloodcount was one of my favorite features of that band, along with those mighty pockets o'funk. I loved the way Speed would slip into those slurred microtonalities - it created such a tart, off-kilter balance in contrast to Berne's alto. (I hope I've attributed the quoted part correctly... I somehow overlooked Jason's original post and am responding to Rob's response...) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Cuong Vu, "Our Bridge," 'Bound' (OmniTone) - thanks for the inspiration, Jason... great disc. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R. Lynn Rardin" Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 13:26:06 -0400 OnionPalac@aol.com wrote: >When I listened back to the AMM show on my minidisc I realized at the end >of their hour long set it took people over a minute to come to grip with >reality and start clapping. In my case, it was more like I was trying to wring every last drop out of the last note! What a thrilling experience. >I wish I knew free ice cream was going around. I was told by an organizer that the ice cream was donated by Toscanini's for consumption by the festival performers. The ice cream provided some funny moments during the Due Process set. -Lynn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 17 Oct 2000 09:36:13 +0200 > 2) they didn't like the audience asking them to play the NC-"hits" again and > again... BTW, did they play any absinthe - like shows? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 19:39:10 +0200 BTW, for those who wouldn't know, Keith Rowe has a new album out. It's on Potlach (who already released albums with Bailey, L=E9andre, etc...), and it's a Keith Rowe/Evan Parker duo, recorded live at the Pannonica, in Nantes (France). Their website is at: http://www.potlatch.digiweb.fr/index_uk.html Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 14:10:25 EDT In a message dated 10/17/00 1:39:33 PM, Pascal.Cortes@dstu.univ-montp2.fr=20 writes: << BTW, for those who wouldn't know, Keith Rowe has a new album out. It's on Potlach (who already released albums with Bailey, L=E9andre, etc...), and it's a Keith Rowe/Evan Parker duo, recorded live at the Pannonica, in Nantes (France). >> yeah, this is an incredible CD, as I've previously mentioned. Rowe also has=20= a=20 new solo CD out any day, Harsh (Grob), recorded in Cologne by Marcus=20 Schmickler in a freezing basement. I haven't heard it yet. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: merkin masada (long) Date: 17 Oct 2000 15:16:44 -0500 packed house, long sets last night for masada string trio/bar khoba at merkin (nyc). long time since i've seen the chamber groups, too. i had thought it would be one set of the trio and one of the sextet (trio + ribot, baptista, baron). but it turned out to be interspersed, mostly full ensemble stuff (only 3 or 4 trio pieces out of about 15 pieces played, plus a powerful trio+baron piece)(and sorry, i've never really learned the titles, tho i walk around singing them plenty)(if anyone has titles last night, however, i know someone new to the songbook last night who'd like them as a guide). no p.a. in use, but microphones on all the instruments, so i assume they were recording. remarkable friedlander/cohen duo, nice baron/cohen bit as well, friedlander solo on one short, masterfully played piece, heavy ribot solos with much encouragement from jz (who was on stage sitting to the side of the band and conducting). would have been pleased to see some baptista soloing, tho. big surprise was two premieres (well, that was the first of the surprises). i was under the impression that zorn was finished writing the masada book, but they premiered two pieces last night. the first was a slow, ribot-vibrato heavy bacharach groove with jz actively conducting and grinning when ribot broke into feedback (ribot, by the way, was checking every minute or two with zorn for guidance, and always got the nod no matter how noisy he got). built twice in volume but never picked up tempo. quite nice. jz introduced it afterward as "the sepharic surf" (or "surfaric serf"? "serfin sephaire"?). the second new piece was an uptempo thing opened by the trio, them percussion added, then ribot, coming to a sudden unexpected end. he didn't give the title. the last piece they played was 'kol nidre'. i don't have the string quartets disc, so i'm not sure where i've heard it (did they play that at castle clinton maybe?). anyway, makes me very interested to hear the two new versions that are supposed to be coming out next month. gorgeously played. easily the highlight of the night. on the way out, just cuz i was in a good mood and thinking bout y'all, i grabbed a few extra programs. nothing special. bios and chit stapled together, but if anyone would like one, write me and we'll arrange the sase details. .. i had initially intended to sit out this round of 'essential zorn,' but i got to thinking last night. one of his most significant works, i think, doesn't really get mentioned so much around here. i think the controversy that gets stirred whenever 'kristallnacht' is mentioned shows the power and impact of the piece. it's use of noise, sampling and strings is remarkable, beautiful, devastating. last night's 'kol nidre' could justa bouta fit on kristallnacht, i think. after that, in no particular order, i'd say spillaine, all 5 naked cities, the two music romance volumes, the big gundown and the second bar khoba volume. that's right, no masada quartet discs. maybe i've fallen to the too many releases waters down the stew thing. but seeing them live is an absolute must. kg np: jorge sylvester - musicollage - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philippe Dupuis Subject: Pauline Oliveros Date: 17 Oct 2000 18:18:41 +0000 hello, wondering if the PRIMORDIAL LIFT album is worth getting. anyone out there have a clue? thanks, martin dupuis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Pauline Oliveros Date: 17 Oct 2000 17:27:14 -0400 I got it. It's pretty nice and mellow drone like. I don't know anything else Oliveros but this one strikes me as a good one. I know this isn't too much help... Dan At 6:18 PM +0000 10/17/00, Philippe Dupuis wrote: >hello, > >wondering if the PRIMORDIAL LIFT album is worth getting. anyone >out there have a clue? > > >thanks, >martin dupuis > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Kirchmer" Subject: FIELDS & POINTS TOUR hits Seattle on Wed. 10/18 Date: 17 Oct 2000 15:01:34 -0700 Greetings! - here's a late hour reminder of a special show! - ** for all you =3D NORTHWEST USA =3D adventurers out there ** Experimental musical directions galore! LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE --- - MIKAEL STAVOSTRAND (Staalplaat recording artist from Sweden) - MOLJEBKA PULSE (Eibon recording artist from Sweden) - BRENT GUTZEIT (Staalplaat recording artist from Chicago) - rebreather (Seattle's very own Christopher DeLaurenti & Alex Keller) --- * WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 18th * ~ THE RAINBOW ~ 722 NE 45th St. Seattle, WA Show starts @ 10pm sharp Cover: $7 21+ --- - MIKAEL STAVOSTRAND is a composer & performer of computer music. He has been working in the field of experimental electronic music since the end of the 80=92s. In the last few years, he has been working almost entirely on a Powerbook, both in the studio and in live improvisations. There are several different influences in his ways of constructing pieces. By collecting sounds from existing sources, he is able to create a type of contemporary music concrete and electro-acoustic mixture. Unlike the pioneers of these forms of music, limited by the technology of their times, Stavostrand is able to manipulate sounds during the performance. In fact, he seeks out as many live and improvised performances as possibl= e. Using the laptop as a tool to realize his compositional and deconstructionist ideas, he=92s very interested in the randomness and unexpected direction his compositions can take in such contexts. He has currently released 12 CD=92s in Europe and the USA. His touring schedule has included Sweden, Germany, France, Belgium, Holland, Japan, and the USA. Two of his CD=92s were subsidized by the Swedish National Council for Cultural Affairs in 1997 & 1999. For more info, visit www.it.kth.se/KREV/citizen/mikael/ or the labels - www.staalplaat.com & www.algonet.se/~tankred/fer.html (sound clips!) --- - MOLJEBKA PULSE, a one-man act also from Sweden, uses dark guitar drones to build clouds of sound. But don=92t expect a guitar act. He manipulates the sounds of his electric and acoustic guitars to the poi= nt that their source is completely concealed. It sounds more like a performa= nce of electronics. His sound can best be described as a well-balanced soft droning foundation with radio static, treated feedback and other sounds slowly incorporated to create a vast floating structure in the ocean of drone. Moljebka Pulse has been included on the compilation =93Aesthetics = of Cruelty=94 released by the Cold Meat Industry label. His first CD release= , =93KOAN=94, came out this year. For more info, visit his website at: http://members.xoom.com/moljebka, and http://digilander.iol.it/prefeed/moljeb.htm (KOAN description), and - http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-44991/oljud/texts/eoc_live.html (brief review) --- - BRENT GUTZEIT is a recording artist on the Staalplaat label along with Mikael Stavostrand. The only non-Swede in the group, he hearkens from Chicago. In his solo set, he uses the laptop as his main instrument to create subtle electronic noise music. When not performing solo, he is par= t of the electronic band TV Pow. He is also proprietor of the Boxmedia labe= l. For more info, visit the label website: http://www.boxmedia.com along wit= h - www.staalplaat.com --- - rebreather: Abrasive, sparse, ethereal, abrupt, and wistful, rebreather (Alex Keller and Christopher DeLaurenti) improvise live electronic music from the digital glossolalia of sabotaged consumer electronics, homebrew circuits, and obsolete devices. Basking in the added danger of live electronics, rebreather probes the frontiers of free improvisation. Only = in live, freeimprovised electronic music can something go totally wrong and compel the players to battle their instruments from second to second, minute by minute. rebreather's goal is to coax and exhume whichever sounds we find, then fuse them into a sonic conversation of shared solos, duets and, of course........silences. For more visit Chris' website at www.sonarmap.net --- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 17 Oct 2000 18:11:22 -0400 I don't own much Zorn CDs (I've been a fan since this christmas), but the one I least hear (note that I'm not saying it's a bad album) is SPY VS. SPY. Now I know the importance of this album, and I also know that a lot (and that's a very lot) of people find this album excellent ... but it just doesn't do it for me. Now, when I do listen to it, it's just a couple of songs, but the whole album is just too much for me. I prefer listening to the DISC 0 of the Painkiller boxset, which although it's very intense, it has it's dub things, and everything's changing a lot of the time, which I don't see in SPY VS. SPY. Finally, I'm not saying that SPY VS, SPY shouldn't be bought by a new Zorn fan ... actually I think they should ... but I just wanna know if there is somebody out there who thinks this album is not so hot. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. BOB MARLEY . dreams of freedom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: Re: greg kelley's TRUMPET (review) Date: 18 Oct 2000 00:18:33 +0200 (CEST) >From: Scott Handley >Greg Kelley - TRUMPET (Meniscus, 2000) >[Kelley, unaccompanied trumpet] I just listened this new CD once. I definitely agree with you. Very good, very deep music. Very good player. There is another trumpet player who plays in that direction : Axel Dorner (german). Jacques Oger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 17 Oct 2000 18:57:15 EDT In a message dated 10/17/00 6:09:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nilugo@usa.net writes: > Finally, I'm not saying that SPY VS, SPY shouldn't be bought by a new Zorn > fan ... actually I think they should ... but I just wanna know if there is > somebody out there who thinks this album is not so hot. > > i like the album Spy vs. Spy, but it is one of the albums that i listen to the least. dare i say it is "not so hot?" that may be grounds for dismissal on this list seeing as how it seems to be most people's favorite. i just happen to be a fan of some of the more orchaestrated pieces. i love strings. however i do get in the mood for some spy vs. spy insanity now and again. i would say my least favorite is redbird. minimalism is (all joking aside) pretty weak. its truly the least you can do. later zornies. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton Subject: Re: what about speed? Date: 17 Oct 2000 18:18:52 -0500 (CDT) Rob the Belgian was saying... > I didn't like "Iffy" too much either, but Speed's sound and melody with > Pachora is majestic. He still has to prove that same level in other > environments. I found that "Iffy" really took some time to grow on me - my first couple of listens I was rather let down but now it qualifies as a total thumbs-up. One thing that's really interesting to me about Chris is that he seems to save all of his really burning soloing for other people's bands - Tim Berne's Bloodcount and Dave Douglas' Sextet are the two that really come to mind for me. With his own groups he seems to lay a bit lower, as if he's diverting his efforts towards acting as a ringleader in refining the group dynamic. Which, I think, is the real star of both of his quartet records - everyone has an opportunity to step out front and blow, but what really hits me are those moments when the whole band is just burning all together. And since you mention Pachora (this actually occurred to me listening to Matt Moran's Slavic Soul Party disc last night): if I had to choose between listening to his clarinet or his tenor, I'd pick the clarinet, no question. I feel like I can hear his tenor playing really turning into something interesting as compared to releases from several years ago, but his clarinet playing is consistently the absolute shit. He seems to be able to do sweet'n'pretty, fucking ripping, and everywhere in between with total conviction. Yes, more clarinet please. According to Amazon, they just dropped "Emit" and "Alasnoaxis" in the mail yesterday. Listened to a bit of Emit on Amazon this morning - sounds very very nice indeed... (I recognized 'Kosmia' from hearing it at the record release gig for "Deviantics" a while back - the folks I was sitting with [a couple of unnamed members of Sideshow who should probably have known better] seemed convinced that it was by Cyndi Lauper. I got drunk and kept referring to Cuong's pedals as "toys", which I don't think he appreciated one bit at all...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fas Subject: re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 18 Oct 2000 01:36:02 +0200 > From: "Marcin Gokieli" > Subject: Odp: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? > > From: Ari > > 2) they didn't like the audience asking them to play the NC-"hits" again > and > > again... > > BTW, did they play any absinthe - like shows? > Marcin Gokieli don't know for sure, but i don't think so. but that's another point of the masada vs. naked city discussion: why aren't there any naked city live cds in the tzadik archival series? he started floating us with masadas but still no naked city in sigh(t). that's sad because i think naked city live cds would be very popular. (i know some bootlegs of naked city concerts and all of them are awesome, but all have *awful* sound-quality. something official is due!) f. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Weird Little Boy. I was hugely disappointed when I heard it, because I expected a little bit more than pointless improvisations by 5 great musicians. At least I didn't buy it... so you could say I learned that "listen to Zorn before buying" lesson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 17 Oct 2000 17:03:02 -0700 Okay, I'll bite. These are the three (and only) Zorn CDs I actually sold back: - The Book of Heads - Aporias - Cobra Live at the Knitting Factory The first I don't like because I just don't get solo guitar. Solo bass, yes, but I'd rather listen to a jackhammer than have to listen to, say, Derek Bailey. =) The third I don't get because I probably really have to see the game pieces performed live. Essential Zorn CDs (clearly there's no consensus on these): - the first Naked City album - Masada: Gimel - Painkiller: Execution Ground - Spy vs Spy and on some days, - Naked City: Leng T'che - Bar Kokhba I have to agree that the Masada releases are getting a little repetitive, but I still feel compelled (I might add, *joyfully* compelled) to get 'em all. Seeing Masada live two years ago was a religious experience for me, so... Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Delerue's "Contempt" Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:17:14 +1000 > There was (and still is?) a collection of early Godard films on one cd. It > was issued in Japan in the mid-90's. Also you may find the piece in a best > of Delerue collection. As far as I know I don't think there was ever a > full-length album of the Contempt soundtrack. Thanks a lot for the help, but I was after some titles too, since many internet music sites list their items with no track lists or sound samples... Also, I know there is at least one cd with 'selections' from Contempt i.e. a few pieces and I think maybe some dialogue too, I am really looking for something like this... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 21:03:13 -0400 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > I'm really curious to hear other people's reactions to the AMM show in Boston > on Saturday. I know there were more people from the list there than have > spoken up as of yet... Well, first, because it hasn't really been discussed, I wanted to mention Keith Rowe's solo performance on Firday night. This really knocked me out, even, dare I say, more so than AMM the next day. Rowe displayed an enormous amount of concentration, imagination, depth of feeling and pure obsession with sound that was really awe-inspiring. I felt that Rowe was playing as if no one else was in the room, experimenting with sound for his own delight and knowledge. He tended to maintain a drone of one sort or another, sometimes emerging from slight feedback interference, other times from the tapping of the blades of small, handheld fans against the guitar strings. This provided a rich and complex "bed" from which to overlay and integrate other sounds. Often the generation of these sounds involved the slightest, most subtle manipulation of his devices, for example moving those fans a quarter-inch one way or another, sometimes to drastic effect, sometimes producing no immediately appreciable change in sound (though I bet it was there, in Rowe's ears). He mentioned after the show that his shortwave radio was activating itself in some manner which he could control, so he decided to "simply" intergrate its occasional bursts into the performance; very nice. Overall, it was about an hour of gorgeous, difficult, deep music. AMM's performance was also wonderful but (only for me, perhaps) I found it "suffered" through no fault of its own from the preceding acts. That is to say, though many of them were attempting to plow similar areas, they were relatively unsuccessful, especially the immediately preceding group who, I thought, were god-awful. So, when AMM began playing I (stupidly, granted) began critically examing why, for example, when Eddie Prevost dragged the point of a stick across a drum, it sounded great but when player X did it, it sound, well, like someone dragging a stick across a drum. So it took me a while to relax into the show. Even so, it's a complex enough performance that, under the best of circumstances, I'd want to listen to many times because there's so much going on, so many connections made and...missed. Earlier in the evening, Rowe was talking about his growing fascination with "failure" as regards improv performances. How, if I'm remembering righttly (Correct me if I'm wrong here, Jon), they had done some shows in Japan which "failed" for what Rowe thought were reasons both fascinating and worth investigating further. He seems to have put paid to the notion of "communication" within the group and indeed thought it was impossible, but found great potential beauty in that impossibility. (and I'm sure he expressed it more cogently than I am). Anyway, with that in mind, I found myself listening for a failed performance--certainly an odd way to try and appreciate a concert, kind of a negative image thing, "hearing" missed opportunities. Hell, what other band induces nutso thoughts like this? After the show, I wished Rowe continued success in his attempts at failure, with apologies to Tom Johnson. Beautiful shows; three astounding musicians. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: greg kelley's TRUMPET (review) Date: 17 Oct 2000 21:08:53 -0500 Oger wrote: > >From: Scott Handley > >Greg Kelley - TRUMPET (Meniscus, 2000) > >[Kelley, unaccompanied trumpet] > > I just listened this new CD once. > I definitely agree with you. > Very good, very deep music. > Very good player. > > There is another trumpet player who plays in that direction : Axel Dorner > (german). Who also, I think it's been mentioned, has an excellent new CD on the same label, Meniscus: 'Claque,' with Fred Lonberg-Holm and Michael Zerang. But it's a very different kind of recording, more conventional free improv as opposed to the ultra close-up, ultra intimate solo disc by Kelley. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - The Yankees, failing to clinch the AL playoffs again (so far...) Personal P.S. Jacques, drop me a line if you didn't get the message I sent to you through Jon (e-mail problems)... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: what about speed? Date: 17 Oct 2000 21:16:24 -0500 Tom Benton wrote: > (I recognized 'Kosmia' from hearing it at the record release gig for > "Deviantics" a while back - the folks I was sitting with [a couple of > unnamed members of Sideshow who should probably have known better] seemed > convinced that it was by Cyndi Lauper. You know, the first time I heard it, I didn't have the CD case nearby, and I wondered if it was in fact a strange arrangement of "Time After Time." Of course, to me, that's FAR from an insult. It was good enough for Miles Davis, too... Such sweet clarinet... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - The Yanks continuing to clutch at straws... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 21:50:30 EDT great description by Brian of the solo Rowe set. a few additions: << He mentioned after the show that his shortwave radio was activating itself in some manner which he couldn't control, so he decided to "simply" integrate its occasional bursts into the performance; very nice. >> the electricity was spiking in and out on him. a couple of other notes as to what he was actually doing: besides the fans, he was using both a FM and a shortwave radio, both simultaneously for a while. he also used some springs, which he attaches near the bottom of the guitar. <> that's pretty much right. AMM just finished doing 8 or 10 shows in Japan, and Rowe was saying that some of the performances were "difficult", but he said that was what kept things interesting after 35 years. he didn't say that those specific performances failed though (to me anyway); the talk of failure came from the lecture that Tilbury gave at the New England Conservatory Friday morning, where at the end, the three members all answered questions, and there was evidently much discussion of failure in improv and how it's more important than success. I wasn't there though; anyone who was want to give more details? <> this I don't recall, but I'd like to hear more about it, if you remember anything else, Brian. <> no argument there. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 23:08:52 -0400 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > this [the impossibility of communication] I don't recall, but I'd like to hear > more about it, if you remember anything else, Brian. My recollection was something on the order of (paraphrasing, of course): "You begin to realize that true communication is impossible, but THAT, in and of itself, is a fertile area for exploration that I'm finding increasingly fascinating." I think that was when one of us mentioned "meta-communication" as an alternative to what one might think of "traditional" improv communication, ie, the players overtly accomodating and acknowledging their fellow musicians. This was one of the (many) problems with some of the other bands at the fest; eg, "Well, he just started playing loud, so I guess I should play loud"...you know the routine. In fact, one of several things I picked up on during AMM's performance was Prevost's willingness (eagerness, even) to disrupt the proceedings by playing loud when it would have seemed that quiet was the way to go. Tilbury's Feldmanesque consonance has also always worked this way for me. There was a section where Rowe had set up an abrasive, discordant drone and Prevost was intensely bowing a cymbal, the two creating a howling whine; Tilbury, instead of, say, reaching into the piano and banging away or producing a Cecilish flurry, played some quiet beautiful figures as if to say, this too can exist in this space, at the same time. I'm pretty confident that no members of other bands there last weekend would've had the balls to inject such "prettiness" into the proceedings. Wouldn't have been cool, you know. I don't know if it's typical of him (though I wouldn't doubt it), but aside from his music, Rowe was awfully impressive in his apparently constant thinking about (and openly talking about) his musical philosophy. Jon, I think you mentioned on the way back that Rowe once said he spends every morning re-evaluating his approach to guitar playing. I don't doubt it. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 23:37:19 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 12:09 PM > another interesting Keith Rowe tidbit: in a few weeks, he'll be travelling > somewhere in Central Africa and jamming with pygmies. he didn't know whether > he was going to need a generator, but he was sure that he couldn't play > without electricity. That sounds very, very odd. Who set that up? Has he played with non-improvising types before? -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: KF Date: 17 Oct 2000 23:46:09 -0400 For all the Knitting Factory train-spotters: there's an article in this week's Village Voice about their financial troubles http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0042/sotc.shtml -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 23:45:51 EDT In a message dated 10/17/00 11:35:26 PM, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << That sounds very, very odd. Who set that up? >> it had something to do with an AMM performance at the same festival as a project of Lukas Ligeti's involving some African musicians. << Has he played with non-improvising types before?>> I'm guessing that what he played in Mike Westbrook's jazz band in the sixties was much more structured than this will be. but no, off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone he's played with who's entirely outside of the jazz/improv tradition. so what did you think of AMM, Jesse? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com NP: the Yankees, who aren't really struggling so much anymore - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: AMM Date: 18 Oct 2000 00:12:36 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > it had something to do with an AMM performance at the same festival as a > project of Lukas Ligeti's involving some African musicians. Hmm. . . I'd like to hear how that goes. I wonder if the African (traditional, I assume?) musicians will take well to Rowe's table-top guitar. > so what did you think of AMM, Jesse? Heh. I've been meaning to post a review, but this is a very busy week for me, and I think I actually have to (pretend to) be a real college student tonight. But I plan to write something about AMM and some records I got this weekend (new Sugimoto/Drumm duo, Gustaffson/O'rourke duo, new Intransitive comp., Greg Kelley, Matt Weston, Kurzmann/Stangl duo) when I find time. I will say that I enjoyed AMM a lot, but I wasn't nearly as jaw-droppingly floored as most people I talked to or who've reported here. Like Brian, I'm thinking this may have more to do with me than with their set. I had a hectic night trying to find parking, I found the house lights on the audience distracting (they were dimmed but still on), and I was psyched up from seeing Melt-Banana the night before (really fast, crazy, noisy spazz band; pretty great, but quite antithetical to AMM). However, I still found the set quite engrossing, and I barely noticed the time passing. Actually, does anyone know exactly how long they played for? I have some more specific observations, but I'll hold up until I have more time and I've thought about it a bit more. RE: Rowe's solo set, I'm really wishing I hadn't missed it now after reading Brian's description. Sounds fascinating, and it may have helped to give me another angle with which to view the AMM set. Does anybody else find that they like to compare a player's solo and group work? I find that they illuminate each other a lot, and I love to see how a player adapts his/her "language" to a specific event. Brian, did Rowe speak to a group, or did you just talk to him privately? Sounds like he was very interesting. Did anyone interview those guys when they were over here? -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 22:17:31 -0600 >That sounds very, very odd. Who set that up? Has he played with >non-improvising types before? can't tell you who set it up but FWIW the Pygmies do quite a bit of improvising albeit a bit more ?genre/idiom/culture? specific than Rowe. thanks for the AMM comments folks. -- hope I'm able to see them in April. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: AMM Date: 18 Oct 2000 00:31:07 -0400 Jesse Kudler wrote: > Brian, did Rowe speak to a group, or did you just talk to him privately? > Sounds like he was very interesting. Thanks to Jon, I was able to horn in on some of his conversations with Rowe. But he seemed quite open to and patient with anyone who approached, no matter how annoying (and believe me, I overheard a couple....). I thought I heard that all three were at NEC on Friday though, and gave some kind of talks. Brian Olewnick (Go Yanks!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: Delerue's "Contempt" Date: 17 Oct 2000 21:36:48 -0700 Dear Julian and Zorn list, I found the CD in my collection: It is called "Bandes Originales des Films de Jean-Luc Godard" The label is Hortensia distributed by BMG in Japan. The serial no. is BVCP-1064. The cd features the music from : A bout de Souffl=E9 (Breathless) Pierrot Le Fou Alphavlle Le Mepris (Contempt) I strongly recommend this cd. Again, I bought this cd at HMV Tokyo - so maybe a HMV store in your neighborhood may be able to order it for you. --=20 Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Case" Subject: Re: What is the worst Zorn release Date: 18 Oct 2000 14:08:29 +0950 Hi all, I think that trying a Zorn record will really tell you little about how you'll feel about it in a years time, Case At least I didn't buy it... so you could say I learned that "listen to Zorn before buying" lesson. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R. Lynn Rardin" Subject: Re: AMM Date: 18 Oct 2000 0:40:15 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: >AMM's performance was also wonderful but (only for me, perhaps) I >found it "suffered" through no fault of its own from the preceding >acts. That is to say, though many of them were attempting to plow >similar areas, they were relatively unsuccessful, especially the >immediately preceding group who, I thought, were god-awful. So, >when AMM began playing I (stupidly, granted) began critically examing >why, for example, when Eddie Prevost dragged the point of a stick >across a drum, it sounded great but when player X did it, it sound, >well, like someone dragging a stick across a drum... My enjoyment of the set suffered a tad from this, too. Whether or not the preceeding groups were successful, the simple fact that we heard 4 groups prior to AMM taking the stage, several of which "plowed similar areas" to use your words, probably made my ears a little less receptive to AMM. Come to think of it, this makes it even more impressive that I was blown away by AMM's set. In defense of the local guys, can you imagine how tough it would be to play on the same bill as AMM, especially if your music was in a similar vein to their work?! It might have been a smart move to program a bit more variety on Saturday night. -Lynn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: AMM Date: 17 Oct 2000 22:41:23 -0700 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > Tilbury, instead of, say, reaching into the > piano and banging away or producing a Cecilish flurry, played some quiet > beautiful figures as if to say, this too can exist in this space, at the > same time. I'm pretty confident that no members of other bands there > last weekend would've had the balls to inject such "prettiness" into the > proceedings. Wouldn't have been cool, you know. This reminds me of seeing a gig by the lineup Michael Snow/Henry Kaiser/John Oswald/Buckethead a number of years ago ... at one point, Buckethead just sort of *took off* into a one-man festival of chopsmanship, laying waste around himself Grim Reaper-like with an amplified scythe; after a minute or so, Kaiser & Oswald gave up, grinned at each other & folded their arms over their instruments, waiting for the end of the onslaught, and Snow just sat there, playing these quiet, big open chords, somehow knowing exactly where to drop the punctuation points into the primordial swirl of notes, somehow always harmonically right w/ the moment they were dropped into. Folks, seek out those old CCMC LPs. Really. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong." -- Jaxon np: _Charlie Watts/Jim Keltner Project_ (don't laugh!) nr: Miles Harvey, _The Island of Lost Maps_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: absinthe live? (was: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?) Date: 18 Oct 2000 09:55:18 +0200 > > > > > BTW, did they play any absinthe - like shows? > > Marcin Gokieli > > i'm not quite sure about this myself, but if i remember correctly i once met a guy who told me he'd seen a live performance of "absinthe" in germany (cologne?). must have been around 1991/92/93. i also think i remember him telling me that it wasn't the "standard" naked city line-up. maybe marc ribot played, too - plus some others. sorry, but i only remember this very vaguely... patRice np: sweet f.a. nr: eiji yoshikawa "musashi" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: Masada Date: 17 Oct 2000 09:30:30 +0200 C'mon guys, wake up. Even after seven Masada releases they managed to release essential songs like 'Shechem', 'Kodashim', 'Ne'eman' and 'Khebar' on HET. Listen to them now and evaluate. These songs are not just good songs they are shockingly wonderful and totally justify the release. And the same can be said about TET and YOD. The problem is that a lot of us have a short attention span and fail to invest the appropriate time into the powerful Masada Songbook which should still be expanding. Rob@llaert.NU _______________°°°°°° np: Equal Interest - 1999 (Melford/Jarman/Jenkins) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: Crush Date: 17 Oct 2000 09:46:40 +0200 Crush live yesterday. Myra has a friendly and charming presence. I must confess that I didn't like Takeishi's fretless sound too much. I am aware that Myra's compositions are quite challenging to play simultaneous and I somehow felt they didn't succeed in doing so all the time. Still, a nice concert. She said that 'Same River Twice' was up to something CD-wise. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:17:42 +0200 > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > > songbook, like Monk. Of course this is a joke... > > In what sense? > In the sense that anyone may easily produce such statements... > One doesn't write a songbook with the intention of writing a > songbook (at least when refering to jazz musicians). One > writes songs and, eventually, the songs will become a songbook. > It's not an absolute activity... > It's like saying: "I am planing to write a few standards..." What's wrong with that? Remember that JZ arranges those tunes for different lineups. Reinevetnting the notion of a standard? I must say that i think there's something wrong with those masada complaints. First, I think that, as i wrote in my previous post, saying that masada = OC + jewish scales is completely wrong. Listen to 'kaztatz' form gimmel, and you'll see what i mean (or you'll tell me that i'm wrong). Second, I do not like the 'progressive' ideas that undrelie what some of you write. In fact, everybody seems to agree that the musical abilities of the band are great. The wrong thing is that there's no 'revolution', no 'new things' in the masada stuff (well, and what about those bar kokhba and circle maker etc. stuff?). It's like if the music was wrong from a moral, not musical, standpoint. I do not like that. One can use the past if one wants to. Look at the beauty of Stravinsky's neoclassical works (Look at them and flame on...;-)). Look at the way IS used the old themes and ideas in a new, creative way. JZ is doing the VERY SAME THING imo. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: unheard music Date: 18 Oct 2000 02:29:55 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > sven-ake johansson - schlingerland/dynamische schwingungen: this is what you > fear from a solo drum record. prolonged sonic experiments that never go anywhere > and kind of amount to so many minutes of undeveloped rumble. maybe innovative in > 1972, but bored me. i think i recall someone here praising it, tho. interesting... what little i heard from his new record on hat-hut, i had a similar impression. > nachtluft - belle-view i-iv: pretty interesting electroacoustic inventions from > 1986. need to listen more. the comparissons to amm seemed accurate. started off sounding interesting. i probably need to listen to it more as well. > haven't heard the joe mcphee from this series, but it sounds interesting. > opinions? i liked it quite a bit, but it's a far cry from "tenor". hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 18 Oct 2000 10:35:10 +0200 >There are > 2 albums that come to mind that people generally seem to agree on that > aren't so hot: "Nani Nani" (with Yamatsuka Eye) and the infamous guest spot > with the Intergalactic Maiden Ballet (I haven't actually heard it myself due > to all the warnings). "Nani Nani" actually has it's moment(s) but generally > it's just Zorn and Eye screwing around... Nani nani is quite fun IMO. As to Intergalactic Maiden Ballet... ain't there anybody who'd like to trade for my copy of that brillant fusion album? Easily the worst thing JZ was involved with. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 18 Oct 2000 10:08:37 GMT Hello, Fred Frith wrote a good answer to that question on his mailing list some time ago. Maybe somebody out there have it, or somebody would be so kind to go through the archive for the rest of us? :-) ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 18 Oct 2000 12:34:43 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Oktober 2000 12:08 > Fred Frith wrote a good answer to that question on his mailing list some > time ago. Maybe somebody out there have it, or somebody would be so kind to > go through the archive for the rest of us? :-) What I found in my archives was actually an answer of Fred regarding why Keep the Dog stopped, where he mentioned Naked City in passing: ----- Original Message ----- Cc: Sent: Donnerstag, 18. Mai 2000 17:35 > Keep the Dog was, as Tod, describes, primarily concerned with pre-existing > material. I wanted to perform it, but also to see what would happen to it in a > performance context. We did songs from just about every previous project I'd > been involved in, from Henry Cow and Art Bears through Gravity, Speechless and > Cheap, also Massacre and the Kaiser Thompson French Frith project, as well as > material from Technology of Tears and Allies. It was a lot of fun, and I have > countless live recordings from our several European tours, some of which may > eventually see the light of day. I stopped the group, however, because it > seemed a bit odd to put so much energy into something that I wasn't actively > composing for - I would always rather be writing something new than rehashing > the past, however much I like the material. In the last days we did a lot of > structured improvising, and I enjoyed that rather more than the 'repertoire', > but it was too large a group and scattered a group (New York, Montreal, London, > Germany) to consider continuing in that direction) and I learned from Henry Cow > never to prolong the life of a project beyond the point where it's useful, > however successful it may be (see Skeleton Crew, also Naked City, which could > still be out there making a ton of money if John had wanted it, but he'd done > everything he set out to do with the group and wisely moved on) > cheers > Fred maybe there was something else, but I don't have it Stephane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: merkin masada (long) Date: 18 Oct 2000 10:39:10 GMT Has the Bar Kokhbah ensemble ever played any of the Ennio Morricone songs in concert? I think they do one or two on the new version of The Big Gundown, right? ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 18 Oct 2000 10:47:08 GMT Hey >What I found in my archives was actually an answer of Fred regarding >why >Keep the Dog stopped, where he mentioned Naked City in passing: There was also another one, specifically about Naked City. But it was more or less the same thing, only longer :-) They felt it was about time to end it, so they did... Still the mystery about "Radio Part 2" remains. Frith was also asked about this but more or less avoided answering. Why did they feel to stop it in the middle of a record? ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 18 Oct 2000 14:42:30 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Dave" == DRoyko writes: Dave> [...] Is some other music, maybe Derek Bailey's, Dave> more "important"? I have no idea, but from what I have Dave> listened to of his (exectly two recordings), I could care On rec.music.bluenote a week or two ago you said you'd only heard the duo with Cecil Taylor; what have you heard since? Dave> less, because I'd rather listen to a jackhammer.[...] Ah, maybe that's why you don't like DB -- I really don't hear much jackhammer sonority in his playing (though he comes close a couple of times on _Saisoro_ with the Ruins). If jackhammer guitar is what you're looking for, check out Jean-Marc Montera's _Hang Around Shout_ (FMP) (there's also a couple of jackhammerish tracks on Erhard Hirt's _Gute und schlechte Zeiten_ (FMP OWN), which is among the most eclectic free improv guitar records I've heard). --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: chris speed Date: 18 Oct 2000 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT) interesting article. http://www.allaboutjazz.com/iviews/CSpeed.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 18 Oct 2000 09:40:15 -0400 On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 06:11:22PM -0400, Neil H. Enet wrote: > Finally, I'm not saying that SPY VS, SPY shouldn't be bought by a new Zorn > fan ... actually I think they should ... but I just wanna know if there is > somebody out there who thinks this album is not so hot. I hated this disc when it first came out (partially because I'd heard and enjoyed the band's previous non-hardcore incarnation live). I recently got a copy again, and enjoy it a lot more -- what had sounded to me like a wall of noise now seems almost lucid. But I don't listen to it nearly as much as some others (such as Absinthe and Bar Kokhba). np. King Crimson: Red (24 bit remaster... ooh...) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: answer to several threads... Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:58:49 +0100 (WET DST) Hi folks! sorry to do it like this but i'm getting the digested version and sometimes it's just to much info for the time i've got in hands. so... Naninani - i've given it a listen this morning at a cd store and he first track got my first smile this week. the disparity between the sax solo and the machingun and suffering is just hillarious. best/worst zorn - as has been said (alot of times) that depends on our tastes. something that could help is knowing someones musical background (in question of taste). the kind of musical review i find more usefull is the one that establishes links between what is heard and potencial references. even if they are inexistent. anyway the ear first is a good motus... masada -zero? - why? if zorn wants to do 100 masada (reaaly hope not) records let him do it. i would regret it but to the point they should never happen? and if it's in 98th record that he strikes a music or piece that really sets one off? them what? like previously is a question of taste. last year i couldn't hear "the classic guide to strategy". today i really like it. book - i've come across a book on zorn edited by materiallu sonori that bings also a cd with him and eugene chadbourne. any comments from fellaw zornfans? salut! Ricardo Reis "NON SERVIAM" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: answer to several threads... Date: 19 Oct 2000 02:15:26 +1000 > Naninani - i've given it a listen this morning at a cd store and he first > track got my first smile this week. the disparity between the sax solo and > the machingun and suffering is just hillarious. Yes, this is the "moment" I was referring to. It's actually the reason why I have the cd in my collection today. I suppose that track with the fire engine and ambulance is reasonably funny as well for a listen or two. But the inclusion of that 18 minute scream track really annoys me... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruno Bissonnette" Subject: re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:17:41 EDT Well I was the one who asked Frith that a long while ago... and for some reason I kept his answer, which is: Bruno - I think it takes courage to know when you've done what you set out to do and then move on - Naked City is certainly one of the most successful projects any of the members have been involved in on a commercial level, we could tour til doomsday and live very comfortably, but John has a lot of fish to fry and so do we, so I figure that's great for everyone.... Maybe the reunion tour will happen when we're in our 80's? (the following is his answer to my other question: "did you ever feel limited by playing just bass guitar in NC?") You should know that I have never regarded playing bass as a limitation. I love to play bass, and I miss playing with Joey B more than I can say. It's another instrument, with its own constraints to overcome, and I've been playing it at least as long as I've played guitar, without ever confusing one with the other. (and another question, which was something like: "any special moments you remember from your time in NC?") As for recollections of the band, that would take a book - maybe one day... cheers fred >Hello, > >Fred Frith wrote a good answer to that question on his mailing list >some >time ago. Maybe somebody out there have it, or somebody would be >so kind >to go through the archive for the rest of us? :-) > >ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leonides Kluev Subject: merkin masada (long) Date: 18 Oct 2000 19:09:53 +0300 AG> Has the Bar Kokhbah ensemble ever played any of the Ennio Morricone AG> songs in concert? I think they do one or two on the new version of The AG> Big Gundown, right? ábsolutely. John Zorn - The Big Gundown. John Zorn Plays the Music of Ennio Morricone. 15th Anniversary Edition. Tzadic TZ 7328. (C)(P)2000 Tzadik. (Bonus tracks) 11. The Sicilian Clan 3:20 Mark Feldman (violin); Eric Friedlander (cello); Marc Ribot (guitar); Greg Cohen (bass); Joey Baron (drums); Cyro Baptisto (percussion). 12. Macchie Solari 3:29 Miho Hatori (voice); Jamie Saft (keyboards). 13. The Ballad of Hank McGain (vocal) 5:27 Mike Patton (voice); Jamie Saft (keyboards); Cyro Baptisto (percussion). 14. Svegliatti & Uccidi 3:03 Marc Ribot (guitar); Derec Bailey (guitar); Trevor Dunn (bass); Joey Baron (drums). 15. Chi Mai 3:06 Mark Feldman (violin); Eric Friedlander (cello); Marc Ribot (guitar); Greg Cohen (bass); Joey Baron (drums); Cyro Baptisto (percussion). 16. The Ballad of Hank McGain (instrumental) 5:25 Jamie Saft (keyboards); Cyro Baptisto (percussion). All compositions by Ennio Morricone Leonides - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Date: 18 Oct 2000 08:42:52 -0700 On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:47:08 GMT "Arthur Gadney" wrote: > > Still the mystery about "Radio Part 2" remains. Frith was also asked about > this but more or less avoided answering. Why did they feel to stop it in the > middle of a record? Since they did not even start to record it, we cannot say in the middle. It seems like RADIO 2 was just an idea of a record that never concretized. Patrice (back from vacations). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:41:21 EDT In a message dated 10/18/00 5:25:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << What's wrong with that? Remember that JZ arranges those tunes for different lineups. Reinevetnting the notion of a standard? I must say that i think there's something wrong with those masada complaints. First, I think that, as i wrote in my previous post, saying that masada = OC + jewish scales is completely wrong. Listen to 'kaztatz' form gimmel, and you'll see what i mean (or you'll tell me that i'm wrong). Second, I do not like the 'progressive' ideas that undrelie what some of you write. In fact, everybody seems to agree that the musical abilities of the band are great. The wrong thing is that there's no 'revolution', no 'new things' in the masada stuff (well, and what about those bar kokhba and circle maker etc. stuff?). It's like if the music was wrong from a moral, not musical, standpoint. I do not like that. One can use the past if one wants to. Look at the beauty of Stravinsky's neoclassical works (Look at them and flame on...;-)). Look at the way IS used the old themes and ideas in a new, creative way. JZ is doing the VERY SAME THING imo. >> First of all, reinventing the idea of a standard is not something one can just decide to do. Even if one's works are eventually accepted as standards, its the rest of the world that passes judgement on that, not the artist. Rearranging a tune 1,000 times does not a standard make. A similar thing applies to the songbook idea, not to mention the idea the a comparison of the Masada 'songbook' with that of Monk is utterly laughable anyway. Speaking for myself, something does not have to be revolutionary in order to be interesting. Its just that I find Masada utterly boring. The concept behind it could MAYBE be interesting, but the execution of it is not. I have a feeling that most others on the list who don't like it would feel vaguely similar. Morally speaking, perhaps there is something wrong with releasing album after album of the SAME stuff after you've gained fans that have 'trusted' you. I mean, the whole Masada IV thing, forcing people at first to buy all the others and send in for a 20 minute release of the SAME thing? Then releasing it and charging almost full price? As for Stravinsky, I've been listening to Strav for about 15 years and do not hear any shred of his influence. In fact the description of Masada that you take issue with is as concise as accurate as one could get. In can think of few musics that can be summed up so neatly. -matt mitchell ps Stravinsky's 'neoclassic' stuff was always his least interesting music, as far as I was concerned, at least. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: AMM/Autumn Uprising Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:46:11 -0400 (EDT) As someone whose chief interest is the jazz/free jazz tradition, I had similar thoughts. Attending all three nights of the Autumn Uprising, I thought the two most praiseworthy bands after AAM were KONK and pianist Dan DeChellis' trio. Both were what I would call 2000 mainstream jazz bands, working in the post-Ornette, post-Coltrane tradition. I already knew of the fine work of Charlie Kohlhase, Nate McBride and Curt Newton, but Taylor Ho Bynum also impressed as a endlessly inventive trumpeter. The same experimentation illuminated the work of percussionist Ravish Momin who played with DeChellis. AAM was particularly noteworthy because, as Brian said, the members were actually doing what many of the other bands were attempting to emulate. Most fascinating for me in the performance was to watch the movement of the musicians that translated certain gestures into the sounds you hear on the CDs. That said, I'm going to be in the minority (of one?) here and say that I found the Rowe solo only moderately interesting. The support and sounding board(s) he gets from Tilbury and Prevost definitely help paint the overall improv picture. Without them, and despite his many effects, he seemed searching for what wasn't there. I should also try to be positive, but I found two of the groups really off putting. Due Process may have been noisy and lively. But the schtick of playing with amps, tape recorders, a turntable and toys wearied very quickly. And one member's leaping around in front of his deafening toys, reminded me of nothing so much as a teenager pretending to play air guitar while blasting Led Zepplin tapes. Barn Owl was disappointing for the opposite reason. Seemingly very young, the band members seemed to think that if everything was played very, very softly and perhaps at random it would approximate an AAM sound. It didn't, any more than a high school Dixieland band reading a "St. Louis Blues" chart sounds like The Hot Five. Ken Waxman (N.P. AAM: Before driving to the chapel.. Before that: Henry "Red" Allen: His Best Recordings Before That:Kidd Jordan/Joel Futtereman: Revelation) --- "R. Lynn Rardin" wrote: Whether or not the preceeding groups were successful, the simple fact that we heard 4 groups prior to AMM taking the stage, several of which "plowed similar areas" imagine how tough it would be to play on the same bill as AMM, especially if your music was in a similar vein to their work?! It might have been a smart move to program a bit more variety on Saturday night. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: speed copied byron ? Date: 18 Oct 2000 17:00:53 +0200 Zorn-agains, Did any of you notice the apparent similarity of "Graphic Ridiculous" by Chris Speed on 'Iffy' and "Bernhard Goetz, James Ramseur And Me" by Don Byron on 'Romance with the Unseen' ? Can this happen by accident ? Rob..................... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:50:43 EDT In a message dated 00-10-17 12:04:42 EDT, you write: >From: >To: >> This idea of "importance" that's been being bandied around lately, of >whether >> or not something is revoultionary, reactionary, original or derivative, >> strikes me as being much ado about nothing. >> I seek out what I enjoy listening to. Important? History will >I think for some people, these two areas probably largely overlap. I know >that personally, I'm a very critical listener, and I usually don't enjoy >music that seems derivative or strongly reminiscent of something I've heard >before. I don't mean that in some kind of intellectual or analytical way; I >just mean that music that sounds terribly familiar and/or doesn't offer a >new challenge usually doesn't end up being interesting to listen to. Yeah, that's probably true for me as well, but less so than it used to be. I mean, I used to consider it a guilty pleasure how much more I enjoy the solo piano music of Grieg than I do Schoenberg. Schoenberg is certainly more original and influential than Grieg, but I could care less at this point. (I still have a soft spot for Webern and Berg, though.) >Which two? The duet with Cecil Taylor from the big FMP Berlin '88 box (the only disc of it I don't like), and "Yankees" with Zorn & Lewis. > As for the jackhammer comparisons, you >should check out some acoustic Bailey, as he can frequently be quite >lyrical. Try "Aida" if it's still floating around anywhere. It wasn't meant to suggest a parallel in sound, just a parallel in how much it does for me personally on a musical level. >You'd rather listen to the Backstreet Boys, yeesh. . . Yeeshed as charged. Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:56:35 EDT In a message dated 00-10-18 08:43:59 EDT, steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE writes: >On rec.music.bluenote a week or two ago you said you'd only heard the >duo with Cecil Taylor; what have you heard since? Yankees (at your suggestion). I'm not sorry I did, though I can't say it changed my feelings. My main point is more that I've come to accept that what I like doesn't neccessarily correspond with what's 'important.' At least not in music. In medicine, well, that's another story ;-) Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 19 Oct 2000 02:59:51 +1000 > Rearranging a tune 1,000 times does not a standard make. A similar thing > applies to the songbook idea, not to mention the idea the a comparison of the > Masada 'songbook' with that of Monk is utterly laughable anyway. As someone said before, a songbook is a book of songs... that is all... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcel Cobussen Subject: Tonic Date: 18 Oct 2000 18:04:17 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B7A2F5B2E36CDEB19E849F57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be visiting NY next week. I would like to see some concert in The Tonic. Can anybody tell me the address of this place? Thanks -- Marcel Cobussen Erasmus University Rotterdam FHKW Postbus 1738 3000 DR Rotterdam tel. 010-4082474 (work) tel. 010-2800081 (private) fax. 010-4089135 --------------B7A2F5B2E36CDEB19E849F57 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="cobussen.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Marcel Cobussen Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cobussen.vcf" begin:vcard n:Cobussen;Marcel tel;work:P.O. Box 1738, 3000 DR Rotterdam x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:Cobussen@fhk.eur.nl fn:Marcel Cobussen end:vcard --------------B7A2F5B2E36CDEB19E849F57-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Tonic Date: 18 Oct 2000 12:07:41 EDT In a message dated 10/18/00 12:05:27 PM, cobussen@fhk.eur.nl writes: << Can anybody tell me the address of this place? >> all the info you need is at www.tonic107.com. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint Subject: Re: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 18 Oct 2000 18:22:57 +0200 I've never listened to "Nani Nani" or "Weird Little Boy" since they got such bad reviews on the list. I think the two worst Zorn CDs that I have are the Knitting Factory Cobra and "Taboo & Exile". The packaging of the latter is really great, which redeems it a bit; the CD itself is not that bad on its own but seeing all the people involved it should have been so much better. -- Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Masada = Coleman + Jewish Scales? Date: 19 Oct 2000 03:24:09 +1000 I've always pretty much gone along with this 'definition' for Masada, but today I was listening to one of the cds and came up with the following observations/questions: I haven't heard the hugest amount of Ornette Coleman (probably about 5 albums in all, some not more than once) but I couldn't help thinking that many of the styles/feels on this particular cd (Gimel) are not derivative of Coleman at all, and that the parallel is made too quickly simply because of the lineup being the same as one of Coleman's. Is this observation incorrect? Or can people point me in the direction of Coleman stuff sounding like Ziphim, Hazor and Hekhal, for example? Also, Masada is incredibly tight... would I be correct in saying that Coleman's stuff is generally very loose (not saying by any means that that is a bad thing) or are there Coleman recordings that have a similar tightness to Masada? Thanks... Julian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Tonic Date: 18 Oct 2000 12:37:30 -0400 ><< Can anybody tell me the address of this place? >> > >all the info you need is at www.tonic107.com. Or perhaps the more memorable www.tonicnyc.com Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: KF Date: 18 Oct 2000 12:46:09 -0400 --============_-1240234877==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 11:46 PM -0400 10/17/00, Jesse Kudler wrote: >For all the Knitting Factory train-spotters: there's an article in this >week's Village Voice about their financial troubles > >http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0042/sotc.shtml This article is especially interesting in light of the job posting I saw on Monter.com recently: US-NY-New York City-#2 leader/COO/CFO Mid-sized(75 employees) music/internet focused company with operations in LA & NY needs strong #2 person, budget and accounting versed, excellent & strong people skills, biz dev & contracts easy, lots of experience in entertainment and/or media industry, entrepenural minded. Chairman/CEO looking for someone to share responsibilty to build a company as it grows from current 15m in business to 200m in business over next 3 years. Hard work and dedication a must. Send me an email with explanation of why it is you. KnitMedia/Knitting Factory, md@knit.net, fax: 212-219-3401 Additional Information Salary: $100,000.00 to $175,000.00 per year Position Type: Employee Contact Information Michael Dorf md@knit.net KnitMedia/Knitting Factory 74 Leonard Street NY NY 10013 Fax: (212) 219-3401 Hmmmm... Dan Hewins --============_-1240234877==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: KF
At 11:46 PM -0400 10/17/00, Jesse Kudler wrote:
For all the Knitting Factory train-spotters: there's an article in this
week's Village Voice about their financial troubles
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0042/sotc.shtml

This article is especially interesting in light of the job posting I saw on Monter.com recently:

US-NY-New York City-#2 leader/COO/CFO
>-------------------------------
Mid-sized(75 employees) music/internet focused company with operations in LA & NY needs strong #2 person, budget and accounting versed, excellent & strong people skills, biz dev & contracts easy, lots of experience in entertainment and/or media industry, entrepenural minded. Chairman/CEO looking for someone to share responsibilty to build a company as it grows from current 15m in business to 200m in business over next 3 years. Hard work and dedication a must. Send me an email with explanation of why it is you. KnitMedia/Knitting Factory, md@knit.net, fax: 212-219-3401

>-------------------------------
Additional Information
Salary: $100,000.00 to $175,000.00 per year
Position Type: Employee
>-------------------------------
Contact Information
Michael Dorf
md@knit.net
KnitMedia/Knitting Factory
74 Leonard Street
NY NY 10013
Fax: (212) 219-3401



Hmmmm...

Dan Hewins
--============_-1240234877==_ma============-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: KF Date: 18 Oct 2000 13:08:59 EDT jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: > For all the Knitting Factory train-spotters: there's an article in this > week's Village Voice about their financial troubles I'm not totally surprised given how lavish the new KF in Hollywood is. Any new club should expect to be in the red for at least a few years, but in this case it will literally be at the expense of KF-NY. Take a look at the KF-LA calendar and you'll see how slim their bookings still are, a few months after opening. http://www.knittingfactory.com/kfla/calendar/index.cfm While the beer is expensive (gotta recoup them losses after all) and the place has creepy theme park-like elements, I would still like to see it thrive for the sake of the music. I really hope they have the audacity to book more progressive (for lack of a better word) acts and not simply resort to booking rock acts that will draw folks in. My least favorite KFLA moment thusfar was during Wadada Leo Smith's show a few weeks ago. Very bright white lights were pointed out from the back of the stage onto the performers and into the eyes of those of us in the crowd. From what I could tell this was done for the sake of the 2 guys at the front of the stage filming the show for KnitMedia. Another exaple of Dorf losing sight of things. jeff caltabiano n.p. sonny fortune: a better understanding - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: Masada = Coleman + Jewish Scales? Date: 18 Oct 2000 19:52:36 CEST Yeah, I've been thinking the same. I mean, I definitely hear the comparison, but Zorn's stuff is a lot more defined and tight. Another thing is that you don't really need to have heard a lot of Coleman to see the linking here, since Masada supposedly is inspired by the 1960 quartet of Higgins, Haden, Cherry and Coleman. >From: "Julian" >To: "Zorn List" >Subject: Masada = Coleman + Jewish Scales? >Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:24:09 +1000 > >I've always pretty much gone along with this 'definition' for Masada, but >today I was listening to one of the cds and came up with the following >observations/questions: >I haven't heard the hugest amount of Ornette Coleman (probably about 5 >albums in all, some not more than once) but I couldn't help thinking that >many of the styles/feels on this particular cd (Gimel) are not derivative >of >Coleman at all, and that the parallel is made too quickly simply because of >the lineup being the same as one of Coleman's. Is this observation >incorrect? Or can people point me in the direction of Coleman stuff >sounding >like Ziphim, Hazor and Hekhal, for example? Also, Masada is incredibly >tight... would I be correct in saying that Coleman's stuff is generally >very >loose (not saying by any means that that is a bad thing) or are there >Coleman recordings that have a similar tightness to Masada? >Thanks... >Julian. > > >- > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: KF Date: 18 Oct 2000 13:57:41 EDT >>Take a look at the KF-LA calendar and you'll see how slim their bookings still are, a few months after opening. >>http://www.knittingfactory.com/kfla/calendar/index.cfm I'm not sure their bookings are slim or they just never bother to update their calendar. I'm getting used to looking at super old info every time I look at the website. They have a June 1st screen that pops up every time I visit and an error screen every time I try to look at Alterknit's calendar for Nov. If you look at their employee list at the site, a massive amount of people are website employees only, probably all pulling down the big bucks as described in the earlier posting. They probably aren't missing any paychecks. Shouldn't the calendar listing be first priority? Also, they have a contact us button, but of course they never respond. In the Village Voice article, it states that the employees who actually work in the NY club and keep it running aren't getting paid. One employee says that" We're all squatters and anarchists here." That basically means you have to be a homeless person to afford to work for Dorf(in the club anyway). I would hate to see the empire collapse as well, not just for the clubs but for the label as well. There are plenty of great releases still coming out. Dorf just needs to tone the multimedia crap down til things get solvent again. John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwoodwor Subject: Sun Ra as the ultimate musician Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:07:19 -0300 I suggest that there are three different groupings of musicians that we appreciate/enjoy for different reasons, and are motivated themselves for different reasons a) Musician who has some sort of inner feelings or vision that they wish to express, challenge themselves, develop through their music etc. (e.g. Joe Morris, Shelly Hirsch), without really worrying so much if the audience will always necessarily dig it b) Musician who has a unique style of musicianship or sound that they have developed and constantly strive to improve (and usually defines their sound) (e.g. Evan Parker, Joe Maneri), again without necessarily worrying so much if the audience will dig it c) Musician who is primarily interested in performing for an audience for the audiences own enjoyment (e.g. William Breuker Kollektief, Kazutoki Umezu (the Dr.), and :going out on a limb:, I would say the present day Masada who, although as challenging and fantastic a group as ever, really seem to currently be enjoying the 'performing' aspect of the group)) Of course, there is alot of overlap between the above three (each equally skilled), and often a listener or audience member will not be aware of the musicians purpose, but my main point here is that an artist like Sun Ra is so unique and special because he could easily fit into, and be included, in all three of the above categories, whereas some other musicians and groups would definitely suit one (or possibly two) of the above categories Finally, unrelated question, which I know has been covered before a few months ago, It's finally time for me to start exploring AMM - should I get the Crypt first??? wudz. np. Simon Fell - Comp. 30; can't get enough of this one. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philippe Dupuis Subject: SPY vs EYE Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:12:49 +0000 hello, -Finally, I'm not saying that SPY VS, SPY shouldn't be bought by -a new Zorn fan ... actually I think they should ... but I just wanna -know if there is somebody out there who thinks this album is not -so hot. well, i like the album quite alot. brought me to people like ornette and tim berne. it's a frenzy. but the ONLY thing that i would have to mention here is the capture of sound for the drums. it always made me a bit bummed, that's probably why i don't listen to it as often as i should. reminds me of some kind of UZEB album or something. all the echo. can you imagine if the sound would be along the lines of the bloodcount records - just raw mania!!!!!!! don't get me wrong - it's a fucking good album anyways. as for EYE, i haven't heard NANI NANI - but if it's anything like the 3 tracks on HERETIC with the zorn/eye team it should be awesome. i'm still a little puzzled about why so many people don't find HERETIC fantastic. it reminds me of a question i read in a zorn interview ... *"a friend wanted me to ask, why are you working with eye?" to which zorn replies *"now, what a silly question" indeed. i haven't heard any BOREDOMS, where would be a good place to start? thanks, martin dupuis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Metropolis(Non-Zorn related) Date: 18 Oct 2000 20:14:41 CEST Does anyone have any knowledge of the different soundtracks that has been made to Fritz Lang's Metropolis? On my copy the music is tottally amazing, and I'm dying to find out when it was composed. In the opening credits is says "Neue musikfassung: Konrad Elfers", but it does not say which issue ofthe film it is. The music consists of dark industrial rhytms (Not in a cheesy NIN/Ministry way, more in a shabby-limp-old machine kind of way) and some freaked out New Orleans-jazzers from hell. There are also moments of chello/violin-duets(In the more pleasant scenes) and some merry flute stuff too(In the "Pleasure Garden"-scene). Can someone tell me when this was made, alternatively give some descriptions of other Metropolis soundtracks? I know this has nothing to do on this list, but I've asked everywhere, and no one seems to know anything at all. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: More Masada Date: 18 Oct 2000 18:32:55 GMT >I've always pretty much gone along with this 'definition' for Masada, >but >today I was listening to one of the cds and came up with the >following >observations/questions: I haven't heard the hugest amount of >Ornette >Coleman (probably about 5 albums in all, some not more than >once) but I >couldn't help thinking that many of the styles/feels on >this particular cd >(Gimel) are not derivative of Coleman at all, and >that the parallel is >made too quickly simply because of >the lineup being the same as one of Coleman's. Is this observation >incorrect? No, I don't think it's incorrect. I think it's totally correct. When you hear the same Masada tunes played by different lineups (piano trio, bass/guitar duo, etc.) it "sounds like" something totally different. Not to mention that Dave Douglas doesn't sound much at all like Don Cherry, Zorn doesn't REALLY sound that much like Ornette... I remember listening to "Yod," (Ten) for the first time, and especially thinking that the Ornette/Klezmer comparison is not just oversimplified, but in most cases inaccurate. >Or can people point me in the direction of Coleman stuff sounding >like Ziphim, Hazor and Hekhal, for example? I don't think there is any. I can't match up titles with songs in my head, but many of the Masada songs seem to me to be written in a style that has more to do with surf music or spy soundtrack music than Ornette. "Tahah" is at least one of those. >Also, Masada is incredibly tight... would I be correct in saying that > >Coleman's stuff is generally very loose (not saying by any means that > >that is a bad thing) or are there Coleman recordings that have a >similar >tightness to Masada? Again, very well put ... those Ornette quartet albums have a different feel than MAsada. As for the "songbook" issue, all he said was that he wanted to have a bunch of songs that could be played by anybody (well, not "anybody," but any instrumental setup ... as opposed to Naked City, where that music is written for the specific instrumentation, or Spillane, where the music is very studio-based). I don't think that he was necessarily making any any comparison in terms of quality. As for the albums being the same: on one hand, they may be. The covers are similar, the lineup is the same, the general approach is similar. But the inner details are (obviously) different. Plus, listening to the earlier Masada CDs and comparing them to the more recent live ones, you'd have to say there is at lest some evolution in their sound. Whether it works is personal, I guess. Sometimes I enjoy them, sometimes not, but I think that at least their more recent live albums show them going beyond merely playing "styles" and instead playing "music" (and I do understand this point). Finally, I think this is a really good point (sorrry, I forget who wrote it, I just copied and pasted it): "My main point is more that I've come to accept that what I like doesn't neccessarily correspond with what's 'important.' At least not in music. Enough, WY _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: KF Date: 18 Oct 2000 13:08:59 EDT jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: > For all the Knitting Factory train-spotters: there's an article in this > week's Village Voice about their financial troubles I'm not totally surprised given how lavish the new KF in Hollywood is. Any new club should expect to be in the red for at least a few years, but in this case it will literally be at the expense of KF-NY. Take a look at the KF-LA calendar and you'll see how slim their bookings still are, a few months after opening. http://www.knittingfactory.com/kfla/calendar/index.cfm While the beer is expensive (gotta recoup them losses after all) and the place has creepy theme park-like elements, I would still like to see it thrive for the sake of the music. I really hope they have the audacity to book more progressive (for lack of a better word) acts and not simply resort to booking rock acts that will draw folks in. My least favorite KFLA moment thusfar was during Wadada Leo Smith's show a few weeks ago. Very bright white lights were pointed out from the back of the stage onto the performers and into the eyes of those of us in the crowd. From what I could tell this was done for the sake of the 2 guys at the front of the stage filming the show for KnitMedia. Another exaple of Dorf losing sight of things. jeff caltabiano n.p. sonny fortune: a better understanding - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Metropolis(Non-Zorn related) Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:54:34 -0700 On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:14:41 CEST "Marius Ergo" wrote: > > Does anyone have any knowledge of the different soundtracks that has been > made to Fritz Lang's Metropolis? On my copy the music is tottally amazing, Not sure if that answers your question but there are at least two compositions under the name Metropolis: - one by Willem Breuker - one by Mike Westbrook No idea if they were ever used to accompany the movie (in fact, not even sure if both were even written because of the movie). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: Metropolis (Non-Zorn related) Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:02:56 -0400 At 08:14 PM 10/18/00 +0000, "Marius Ergo" wrote: >Does anyone have any knowledge of the different soundtracks that has been >made to Fritz Lang's Metropolis? On my copy the music is Can you have heard Reg Hartt's arrangement - combining both modern music (including work by kraftwerk) and classical pieces? Unfortunately the soundtrack of moroder has been more commonly associated with the movie. In regards to the different versions of the film / soundtrack, see http://www.persocom.com.br/brasilia/metropo.htm where one learns amongst other things that: <> For a discography of mordorer see http://www.angelfire.com/de/moroder/detailed2.html You were not far off with nine inch nails, they did a cover of some scenes, downloadable at http://www.killpopradio.com/met.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: SPY vs EYE Date: 18 Oct 2000 12:00:12 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Philippe Dupuis > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:13 AM > i haven't heard any BOREDOMS, where would be a good place to start? Two albums: "Chocolate Synthesizer," the best of the spazz-era Boredoms (and closer in spirit to "Heretic), and "Super Ae," which is total acid-fried psych-trance madness. The latter is quite exhausting to listento, but for that matter, so is the former. Later, Ben np: john watermann, "calcutta gas chamber" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: KF Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:20:26 EDT Fastian@aol.com writes: > I'm not sure their bookings are slim or they just never bother to update > their calendar. I'm getting used to looking at super old info every time I > look at the website. Yeah, their listing in the paper or over the phone is probably the best source. So much for being the groundbreaking club of the 21st century. > They have a June 1st screen that pops up every time I > visit and an error screen every time I try to look at Alterknit's calendar > for Nov. From what I've seen, they only post the current month's AlterKnit calendar. > Shouldn't the calendar listing be first priority? Sure, but their web people are too busy doing jazze.com. > Also, they > have a contact us button, but of course they never respond. Well, I signed up online for a "Free Beer" at KFLA a few months ago. It was supposed to automatically sign me up for KnitNotes and I was to redeem my beer at the box by giving them my phone number, which they'd check off on their computer. When I did go to the box office, they looked at me curiously and told me to talk to the manager. When I spoke to him, he said "everything got all screwed up" and exasperatingly told the bartender "just give these guys a beer on the house." I got my free beer (with no help from the website), but I'm still waiting for my KnitKnotes. > I would hate to see the empire collapse as well, not just for the > clubs but for the label as well. Another story. I bought the 'Wildflowers' set and was charged $24 since the woman working the merchandise desk at KFLA couldn't figure out that it was actually 3 CDs not 2. They've gotten enough of my money already, so I certainly didn't feel bad about it. > Dorf just needs to tone the multimedia crap down til things get > solvent again. Or just strictly become a multimedia company. He seems much less concerned about presenting live music than developing multimedia, which is a shame. jeff n.p. richard davis: forest flowers - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Trey LeCroy Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #121/Zero Masada Date: 18 Oct 2000 12:19:47 -0700 I am moved to emerge from lurking--at least momentarily--by this discussion of the "value" of Masada. I think what is missing from the discussion so far is an acknowledgment that Masada exists (primarily?) as a vehicle for performance. Zorn is not just a composer, he's a player, and IMO one of the most interesting, most compelling, saxophonists we've got. Masada seems to me to be his current outlet for playing the saxophone, and he's assembled a dynamite band around himself to do just that. To some extent, Masada can be considered a jazz band, and it's about playing some great tunes, improvising some amazing solos, and witnessing some spontaneous musical interaction at the highest level. As a jazz fan first, it's easy for me to "get" that. Regardless of whether or not Masada is serving the "need" for "revolution" or "progress" in the development of music generally, it allows Zorn to play his ass off and he and the other members of the group seem to have a great time doing it. That I happen to find it amazing, and beautiful, and highly valuable, is a bonus for me. That enough others seem to feel the same way to allow Zorn a significant contribution toward paying the rent is, I imagine, a bonus for Zorn. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:19:04 EDT In a message dated 10/18/00 12:24:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com writes: > Subject: Hassidic Scales Date: 18 Oct 2000 16:19:52 -0400 Does any one know where I can find the so-called "Hassidic Scales"? I'd like to use them in some of my work, but I've only stumbled upon poor imitations. Thanks Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Spy Vs. Eye Date: 18 Oct 2000 16:26:55 -0400 I agree with you quite a bit. I was a little disappointed when I first listen to the album. I was expecting some thing earth shattering, because that's the way it was touted by many, mainly the folks on list. There are a lot of good things about the album and it has grown on me, but it is no where close to being my favorite Zorn CD. It's actually one of my least favorites, down there with Weird Little Boy (sorry guys). I love Coleman, but I'm not very keen on Zorn's interpretation. I guess I'm missing or misunderstanding something. Just my opinion... &c. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Hassidic Scales Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:47:40 -0400 On Wed, Oct 18, 2000 at 04:19:52PM -0400, &c. wrote: > Does any one know where I can find the so-called "Hassidic Scales"? I'd > like to use them in some of my work, but I've only stumbled upon poor > imitations. Thanks To my ears, the most recognizable "Hassidic" scale is: D Eb F# G A Bb C# It doesn't map to any of the standard modes, but may have the feel you're looking for. My piece "Ghost Dervish Beach" uses it. There's an MP3 of a performance up at http://www.metatronpress.com/mp3/ Enjoy! -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Re: answer to several threads... Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:31:29 CDT >>>>But the inclusion of that 18 minute scream track really annoys me...<<<< hm, i like the idea of the 18 minute screaming track. one time i fell asleep to it. that was very interesting. i can't remember if i slept poorly or had strange dreams or whatnot. but i think the track serves as a better joke than as a stimulating or engaging piece. (this coming from a merzbow fan.) on another note, i've noticed a lot of people talking about certain pieces that grew on them slowly over time. could people talk about what zorn pieces they really loved at first and are now sick of? (i mean pieces, not like the masada example of zero discs is enough.) thanks, samuel _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Re: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 18 Oct 2000 15:49:29 CDT hey, to all who aren't into Euclid's Nightmare I would recommend repeated listenings. there's a lot in that album that one does not at first hear. depending on the track, of course. it kind of reminds me of Dolphy OUt To Lunch, since that album just didn't bounce off me properly when i first heard it. but there's so much there. -samuel taboo was my second zorn album and the first that i really really liked (my first zorn was euclid's nightmare). - _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: BOREDOMS! (was SPY vs EYE) Date: 18 Oct 2000 17:20:56 -0400 Benito summed up CHOCO and AE quite well, but personally I can't stand AE or any of their new-style droney new agey muzak... depends on what your tastes are... I like the heavy hardcore spazz noise of the earlier boredoms (some call it "noisecore", because it is not really pure "noise" like Hanatarash, but more like hardcore punk mixed with noisy elements). For sheer heaviness, I turn to WOW2 on the Avant label, one of my favorite bore CDs. But I also love SOUL DISCHARGE on the Shimmy Disc label (if you can find it). Also UFO OR DIE another Eye band with Yoshimi on drums and High-Ash (anyone know who this is?) on bass put out a couple of my favorite noisecore CDs, like CASSETTETAPE SUPERSTAR on Public Bath Records, if you can find it. PS: SPY VS SPY is one of my favorite Zorn CDs of all time next to TORTURE GARDEN, so that might explain my tastes a little more too.... >From: "Benito Vergara" > Two albums: "Chocolate Synthesizer," the best of the spazz-era Boredoms (and > closer in spirit to "Heretic), and "Super Ae," which is total acid-fried > psych-trance madness. The latter is quite exhausting to listento, but for > that matter, so is the former. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Philippe Dupuis >> i haven't heard any BOREDOMS, where would be a good place to start? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: KF Date: 18 Oct 2000 17:43:01 -0400 Let me preface this by saying that the Knit is one of my favorite clubs in town. Even if I'm not going to see a group, the first floor and lower floor bars are good places to hang out. I've also known a lot of people who've worked there and they are good folk. But. I also know that these people who work there complain of slave wages and ultimately cannot afford to work there for long (hence, the high turnover rate). This obviously has an effect on their projects. They were supposed to start up a magazine about 2 or 3 years ago called Stitch. I was one of the people involved in this, planning out stories, interviews, etc.. The shortened details were that the main editor was very disorganized and in the end, all the work was done for the nothing- the magazine never even got to the first issue and no one there now seems to know what happened. I also volunteered to help with Knit Notes and did another interview for the magazine. This was cut at the last minute without any explanation. My conclusion was that it wasn't worth trying to do any writing projects for the Knit. Despite these experiences, I still like the Knit itself and would be really sorry to see it go. Places like Tonic and Roulette wouldn't fully be able to take up the slack. Best, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Jim Black's ALASNOAXIS (review) Date: 18 Oct 2000 14:52:04 -0700 (PDT) I've seen some stuff written on-list, but I thought I'd chime in and try to describe it a bit. A very special record; it sticks in my mind. Jim Black - ALASNOAXIS (W&W) A strength of the record is its diversity: without resorting to pastiche, Black seems to employ rock, jazz, funk, folk, ambient, and other influences less as styles than as textures, which are often layered and mixed. From one track to the next, there's washes of feedback; Speed's alternating lyricism and paroxysm, with that gorgeous, warbly, rubbery clean tone, stuffed with overtones; floating streams of effect-laden guitar/bass feedback (WITHOUT drums!); and some gorgeous melodies. Many of the compositions are very song-like, without Big Solos, and often dynamic; the melodies are, to my ear, similar, melancholy, kind of elegiac; their homogeneity actually works to advantage, the effect being that of a suite, perhaps. (A very general comparison with Bill Frisell's THIS LAND might be in order.) The guitarist is a Bill Frisell wannabe (Paul Bley Quartet-era), no doubt; though there's plenty new to be excited about. (Black must listen to lots of Paul Motian Trio. His drumming has nothing to do with Motian, but his melodies owe everything to the Trio's records. The similarities are at times striking.) Jim's occasional Bonzo-Bloodcount drumwork is nowhere to be found; this is not a drummer's record. Skuli Sverisson's electric bass sound is chorused, huge, beautiful as usual; he's subtle and moves inside the music with great facility. The _songwriting_ might be the greatest accomplishment; it seems like a really skilled coinhabitation of free-form improvisation and terrific song-writing, coming from the improvising instrumentalist's camp; from the songwriter's camp, maybe Radiohead's newest wouldn't be that far off? (Hm.) At any rate, it's a beautiful record, even though the challenge is a subtle one, different from the challenges of, say, a Voice Crack album. This is a composer's record. He has a new (??) website, for those who have not yet seen it: http://home.earthlink.net/~jimmyblack/ I'm not sure how many weeks it's been "a week" from completion, though. ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino Subject: Re: KF Date: 18 Oct 2000 17:07:02 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Perfect Sound Forever wrote: > But. I also know that these people who work there complain of slave wages > and ultimately cannot afford to work there for long (hence, the high > turnover rate). This obviously has an effect on their projects. They were > supposed to start up a magazine about 2 or 3 years ago called Stitch. I > was one of the people involved in this, planning out stories, interviews, > etc.. The shortened details were that the main editor was very > disorganized and in the end, all the work was done for the nothing- the > magazine never even got to the first issue and no one there now seems to > know what happened. The most unfortunate thing about the Knit's disorganization is that projects with great potential go unfulfilled. I wrote 3 reviews for Stitch and it seemed like it would be a really cool thing - distributed outside of the NYC area as well. But of course nothing ever happened... Two other areas i can think of: 1) Offering shows from the Jazz Fest on CD-R - what a possibility! Unfortunately, last year only 3 shows were made available - and I cannot believe that the groups offered were the only 3 groups that consented to taping. 2) Their website is NEVER updated. Man, the Knit is like the Mecca for creative music in the whole USA and their site never, ever gets updated - what a shame... > Despite these experiences, I still like the Knit itself and would be really > sorry to see it go. Places like Tonic and Roulette wouldn't fully be able > to take up the slack. Not to mention all of the great music that they have released on CD... Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: SPY vs EYE Date: 19 Oct 2000 11:27:38 +1000 > as for EYE, i haven't heard NANI NANI - but if it's anything like the > 3 tracks on HERETIC with the zorn/eye team it should be awesome. No, it's pretty much nothing like... The first track I guess is similar but it goes for just over a minute I think... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: answer to several threads... Date: 19 Oct 2000 11:35:26 +1000 > hm, > i like the idea of the 18 minute screaming track. one time i fell asleep to > it. that was very interesting. i can't remember if i slept poorly or had > strange dreams or whatnot. but i think the track serves as a better joke > than as a stimulating or engaging piece. Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure what they're doing on this track... is it staggered scream recordings, or what? I guess I also wonder why they chose 18 minutes 13 seconds or whatever it is... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Jim Black's ALASNOAXIS (review) Date: 19 Oct 2000 11:40:56 +1000 > guitarist is a Bill Frisell wannabe (Paul Bley > Quartet-era), no doubt; though there's plenty new to > be excited about. Who is the guitarist? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: K.C. Date: 18 Oct 2000 20:43:29 EDT In a message dated 10/18/00 11:00:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << np. King Crimson: Red (24 bit remaster... ooh...) - -- >> This is my favorite King Crimson record...scary. ben o. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: rec.music.experimental Date: 18 Oct 2000 21:10:37 EDT forwarded e-mail follows, sorry for cross-posts: Hello, I'm looking for people who support the creation of a new usenet group, rec.music.experimental. We have nearly 150 supporters, and need another 100. If you are willing to vote *YES* in an email election for the creation of rec.music.experimental, please email me directly at maha@neosoft.com, and I will keep you updated. The vote will take place in about 3 weeks. Thank you, brent c nunya biznaz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: the crypt? Date: 18 Oct 2000 19:45:30 -0600 >It's finally time for me to start exploring AMM - should I get the >Crypt first??? I only just recently bought the Crypt and I'm very happy that I did but, for myself, I'm glad I heard other releases beforehand. My recommendation would be to start later as I found/find their later stuff to be more accessible. I'd also recommend hearing the trio alone first and not purchasing "the Inexhaustible document." Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: the crypt? Date: 18 Oct 2000 22:38:01 EDT In a message dated 10/18/00 9:47:21 PM, M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu writes: << I'd also recommend hearing the trio alone first and not purchasing "the Inexhaustible document." >> not purchasing it at all? why? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reuben Radding Subject: Re: Hassidic Scales Date: 18 Oct 2000 20:29:46 -0700 At 03:47 PM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote: >To my ears, the most recognizable "Hassidic" scale is: > >D Eb F# G A Bb C# > >It doesn't map to any of the standard modes, but may have the feel >you're looking for. Actually, that's a gypsy variation on what Klezmers call the "freygish mode." The freygish (using the tone center you're using) is the 5th mode of harmonic minor ( D Eb F# G A Bb C D). When harmonizing this mode, one usually uses the standard major I chord, replaces the IV chord with a minor IV, and usually the V chord is replaced (function-wise) with a bVII minor. The primary minor Jewish mode is known as the Avaha Raba, and goes like D E F G# A B C D. This is harmonized with a minor I chord, a minor IV chord and a typical V7. Both these scales are used frequently in the Masada material. all best, Reuben Radding - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: BOREDOMS! (was SPY vs EYE) Date: 18 Oct 2000 23:19:47 EDT In a message dated 10/18/00 5:24:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ifarrell@nyc.rr.com writes: << Benito summed up CHOCO and AE quite well, but personally I can't stand AE or any of their new-style droney new agey muzak... >> Wow. Droney, yes, but they rage through Super AE with two drummers absolutely flailing throughout lots of the tracks! I think I understand what you generally mean, though. -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: 0 masada / knit web site / boredoms Date: 18 Oct 2000 22:47:06 -0500 (CDT) 1. maybe masada is turing into a grateful dead of spastic jazz bands. hence all the recordings - 'john's picks volumes 1 through 456' 2. knit fac should have gotten on their game years ago with the website. as anyone who does web work knows, it's easy to set up a site, but takes a commitment to maintain it. the first rule of thumb is, don't put up anything with a date unless you can guarantee the ability to update it regularly. the inability of the knit fac organization to sustain anything as simple as a regular (e.g. weekly) update of their website, given the resources they presumably have available, speaks badly of their organization, and is one of the easist public relations outlets to fix - which speaks even worse of their organization. 3. I second the rec for the Boredoms 'SOUL DISCHARGE'. that album is a lo-fi blast. cheers, whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: the crypt? Date: 18 Oct 2000 22:09:47 -0600 << I'd also recommend hearing the trio alone first and not purchasing "the Inexhaustible document." >> >not purchasing it at all? why? oops. sorry. i meant not purchasing it as you first introduction to their music. I'm glad I started with the trio alone and would recommend to do this simply because I feel that this is perhaps a more comfortable way to slip into the AMM aesthetic. The Inexhaustible Document is, however, an entirely worthwhile album in its own right but it was my second AMM purchase and it took me a little while to warm up to it. I should really read over my e-mails a little more critically instead of just checking for typos. Matt Wirzbicki FWIW my "Sgt. Pepper" of free music was the Parker/Prevost double disc _Most Material_ on Matchless. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gabriel Lichtmann" Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V3 #123 Date: 19 Oct 2000 01:21:28 -0300 Oh man, so many threads going on, and I wasn=B4t even able to answer = to the Beatles one (lets just say I love them). But regarding the "Zero Masa= da" thing, I think it's pretty cool to say one doesn't like the band, since i= t turned out to be Mr. Z's better known project. But I couldn't care less about music being original, some of the worst crime against art have been commited in the name of progress; I think it was Bunuel who said "Any art= ist that says he doesn=B4t belong to any tradition, is either a fool or an ignorant". I like Masada because I can relate to it in many levels, emotionally, intellectually, phisically, and because they opened my ears = to the sounds of some musicians I hadn=B4t heard before, including Ornette a= nd Klezmer. Let=B4s not forget Masada started recording only six years ago, and t= hat the series was supposedly over in 1998. So the trick lasted only four yea= rs, durnig which we also got "Bar Kokhba" (my personal favourite along with "Godard" and the first Naked City), the string quartets, "Redbird", Duras= , Angelus Novus, Kristallnacht, etc. Sometimes it amazes me how fast we can forget Hasta luego. LA LICHUZA P.S. : Did anyone listen to the latest Charms of the Night Sky? I was qui= te disappointed by it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Jim Black: ALASNOAXIS (review) Date: 18 Oct 2000 23:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Oops, not a very complete review. The guitarist is Hilmar Jensson, who I know nothing about. My comment about "Frisell wannabe" is prbably accurate, but it's also too snide....the guy has a beautiful sound and is a consummate musician. Perfect for the record. Nonetheless, the mark of Frisell is indelible; it's not emulation, though---I'll admit I threw off the wrong impression. -----s --- Julian wrote: > > guitarist is a Bill Frisell wannabe (Paul Bley > > Quartet-era), no doubt; though there's plenty new > to > > be excited about. > > Who is the guitarist? > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 18 Oct 2000 11:43:17 +0200 > Weird Little Boy. > I was hugely disappointed when I heard it, because I expected a > little bit more than pointless improvisations by 5 great musicians. I have similiar impression about zorn/sharp/previte/horvitz disc. Quite empty. BTW, in the recent heretic/absinthe thread, i wrote that heretic is quite weak. I listened to the album again, and I would like to apologize for the lack of truth in my opinions. It's incredible (although i'm not - yet? - enthousiast about eye's parts). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Derek Bailey/Yankees (Re: Zero Masada would be enough) Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:22:10 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Dave" == DRoyko writes: Dave> In a message dated 00-10-18 08:43:59 EDT, Dave> steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE writes: >> On rec.music.bluenote a week or two ago you said you'd only >> heard the duo with Cecil Taylor; what have you heard since? Dave> Yankees (at your suggestion). I'm not sorry I did, though I Dave> can't say it changed my feelings. Actually, _Yankees_ was someone else's suggestion; I suggested just about every other DB record I'm familiar with :-). My emphasis was on Bailey's solo recordings, which is where I get into his music the most. Since it had been a while, I listened to _Yankees_ again last night, and though I like it quite a bit and find the interplay often very compelling, Bailey's playing, while characteristic, does not stand out against the horns. That's why I wouldn't recommend it as an introduction to Bailey's music (nor to Zorn's or Lewis's, though their voices come across more forcefully to me on this record than DB's; the record itself I would recommend as a very nice example of free improv, just not as an introduction to the individual players). --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ari" Subject: Naked City / Masada Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:53:36 +0200 Maybe this helps the recent discussion on the list: what Zorn himself said on: a) Masada = Coleman + Klezmer "The one thing that really surprises me and is a symbol of how limited critics' ears are is the way critics describe it (Masada): klezmer meets Ornette. Of course, there's klezmer. Of course, there's Ornette. But there are as many influences in that music as went into the composition of the Naked City music or any other music I've done - like surf music, movie soundtracks, Sephardic and Arabic music, modern classical, modal jazz. I play them with Joey and Dave, and they say, "Ornette meets klezmer." When I do it for the Masada String Trio, everyone says, "Wow! It's so deeply rooted in the Jewish tradition of string music." Then I do it with the sextet, and people say, "Yeah, it's a real loungey, easy-listening Les Baxter type of thing." I mean, I could do it with a hardcore band." b) Why Naked City stopped playing "I feel the need to write for other ensembles, in other contexts, with new ideas. So the Naked City project has come to an end, like all projects: they have a beginning and an end. I'm not the kind of musician who likes travelling for years on tour, performing the same repertoire every evening. (...) In my opinion NC has become too wellknown, too popular for my liking. It had become something dangerous: I felt the audience was sucking my blood... They used to ask for their favourite piece. They just wanted the same things, they weren't looking for something new. And I can't keep on going in a situation like that even if it would seem to be very attractive on the surface". Ari. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: The Birth of Zorn's Alto Sax Endeavours. Date: 19 Oct 2000 20:16:11 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C03A09.6CBB3A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Zorn-listers, I once read somewhere that Zorn didn't first pick up the alto sax until = he was 21 and that he originally practiced around 8 hours a day. Does = anyone know if this information is factual? Also can anyone tell me when = Zorn first played the alto sax on a studio recording or during a live = performance? Thanks in advance, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C03A09.6CBB3A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Zorn-listers,
 
I once read somewhere that Zorn didn't first pick up the alto sax = until he=20 was 21 and that he originally practiced around 8 hours a day. Does = anyone know=20 if this information is factual? Also can anyone tell me when Zorn first = played=20 the alto sax on a studio recording or during a live performance?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C03A09.6CBB3A20-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Naked City / Masada Date: 19 Oct 2000 09:28:54 GMT >Maybe this helps the recent discussion on the list: >what Zorn himself said on: > >a) Masada = Coleman + Klezmer >"The one thing that really surprises me and is a symbol of how limited >critics' ears are is the way critics describe it (Masada): klezmer meets >Ornette. Of course, there's klezmer. Of course, there's Ornette. But there >are as many influences in that music as went into the composition of the >Naked City music or any other music I've done - like surf music, movie >soundtracks, Sephardic and Arabic music, modern classical, modal jazz. I >play them with Joey and Dave, and they say, "Ornette meets klezmer." When I >do it for the Masada String Trio, everyone says, "Wow! It's so deeply >rooted >in the Jewish tradition of string music." Then I do it with the sextet, and >people say, "Yeah, it's a real loungey, easy-listening Les Baxter type of >thing." I mean, I could do it with a hardcore band." Hardcore Masada?! Wauw, that I'd like to hear!! What would be a good lineup for that... ;-) ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: The Birth of Zorn's Alto Sax Endeavours. Date: 19 Oct 2000 11:36:38 +0200 Adam Rock wrote: > I once read somewhere that Zorn didn't first pick up the alto sax > until he was 21 and that he originally practiced around 8 hours a day. > Does anyone know if this information is factual? Also can anyone tell > me when Zorn first played the alto sax on a studio recording or during > a live performance hi adam if i remember correctly, jz talks about the 1st point you mentioned, in william duckworth's book "talking music". again if memory serves right, i think it is a fact that he didn't start playing sax until he was 21 and that he did practice those long hours. to those who've read the interview in duckworth's book: didn't jz also mention that one of his teachers told him he was too old to start playing sax, that he would never be able to be good at it? patRice (whose memory is a bit like a swiss cheese; or at least he likes to think so... ;-)) np: petro-loukas chalkias & kompania "world network vol. 46: epirus" nr: eiji yoshikawa "musashi", don ed hardy "dragon tattoo design" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: AMM Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:18:07 GMT What is the current AMM line-up? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: papagian@nat.vu.nl ( Emmanouil Papagiannakis) Subject: Zorn in Den Haag Date: 19 Oct 2000 12:29:48 +0200 It seems that mr Z will be prforming tomorrow Friday, in Den Haag with the Guus Janssen trio. Probably in connection to the performance of a piece of him (no title, dutch premiere says the programm) by the Residentie Orkestra on Saturday. Any relevant information is welcome. Manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury Subject: Re: absinthe live? Date: 19 Oct 2000 07:15:52 -0400 At 08:59 AM 10/18/00 -0600, patRice wrote: > >i'm not quite sure about this myself, but if i remember correctly i once met a >guy who told me he'd seen a live performance of "absinthe" in germany >(cologne?). must have been around 1991/92/93. i also think i remember him >telling me that it wasn't the "standard" naked city line-up. maybe marc ribot >played, too - plus some others. > pretty much true - it was a varied program including cat-o-nine-tails (i think), carny (that's why i was there) and absinthe, which may have included david shea & willie winant ... i don't remember ribot being there, but my memory is also a bit hazy. --steve check out the cool new stuff on http://www.stephendrury.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: Zorn in Den Haag Date: 19 Oct 2000 13:57:53 +0200 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Aan: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Datum: donderdag 19 oktober 2000 12:29 Onderwerp: Zorn in Den Haag >It seems that mr Z will be prforming tomorrow Friday, in Den Haag with >the Guus Janssen trio. Probably in connection >to the performance of a piece of him (no title, dutch premiere >says the programm) by the Residentie Orkestra on Saturday. > >Any relevant information is welcome. > >Manolis According to my information the 'Residentie Orkest' will play the Dutch premiere of Zorns 'La Machine d'etre'. Zorn will be appearing on Dutch television Sunday October 22th between 11.00-12.00 in the program 'Reiziger in muziek'. Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hywel Davies Subject: berne/enten eller Date: 19 Oct 2000 05:32:56 -0700 (PDT) anyone have a cd by the Italian band Enten Eller (with Tim Berne guesting) called "Melquiades" ? your opinions will be welcome... also, Ecm are releasing a live cd by Paul Bley, Evan Parker and Barre Phillips - "sankt gerold"...(how do you pronounce "Barre"?!) thanks.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nuno Barreiro Subject: Zero Masada once more... Date: 19 Oct 2000 12:55:50 +0100 I have to make a few comments about my first post, to clarify my viewpoint. ==> I said Masada is OC with an oriental flavour. And "oriental flavour" doesn't mean "jewish scales": 1) there are other musics in the orient; 2) a flavour is not given by scales alone - there is also the rythm and, in fact, all the rest... Yesterday I went through Gimel and those tunes you have pointed as typical non-OC examples. But if you take that "oriental flavor" offset, you are left with typical OC tunes: complicated melodies sounding like weird lulabies, with obsessive pattern repetions; but, most of all, the improvisation is based on the melody rather than chord changes. That last characteristic is the typical OC signature, which he called "harmolodics" (and which heavily relies on the fact that there is no piano playing chords, and inversions of chords, and all that things that piano players usually really enjoy). By the way, the impression that Masada is much more tight than OC is completely wrong. OC's music is much more than the "Free Jazz" album which, in my humble opinion, is one of his less significant works (don't get me wrong, the album is very important, but I don't think it has many connections with the rest of OC's music). I see it more like a collective improvisation by a bunch of incredibly good musicians. If you have the chance to go through the Atlantic box ("Beauty is a rare thing") you will certainly understand what I mean: there are lots of songs, some of which even have chord changes... ==> As for the revolution I was expecting in the Masada serie: I was refering to a revolution whithin the group, not an absolute musical revolution. If you have those late 50's Miles albums (Cookin', Steamin', Relaxin', Workin') you know that they are all very similar... But Miles was looking for something and didn't give us 10 such albums. In fact he gave us "Kind of blue"... I think that, by releasing album after album, Zorn has created an expectation that he should be able to fullfil, but hasn't yet. Masada is a great band, excellent musicians, everything... and that's precisely the reason why it's a pity to see them play such boring music. Nuno - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Zero Masada once more... Date: 20 Oct 2000 00:53:55 +1000 > By the way, the impression that Masada is much more tight than > OC is completely wrong. OC's music is much more than the "Free > Jazz" album which, in my humble opinion, is one of his less significant > works (don't get me wrong, the album is very important, but I don't > think it has many connections with the rest of OC's music. I wasn't referring to "Free Jazz" at all, rather the quartet stuff, like "The Shape Of Jazz To Come"... That is a really loose album... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: The Birth of Zorn's Alto Sax Endeavours. Date: 19 Oct 2000 09:59:03 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01C039B3.35FBD680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe Zorn's first studio recording issued was: The Frank Lowe Orchestra=20 Lowe & Behold=20 Musicworks 3002=20 USA rec NYC, 10/77 =20 Frank Lowe-ts,comp,arr; Joseph Bowie-tb; Butch Morris-cor; Arthur = Williams-tp; Billy Bang-vln; Polly Bradfield-vln; Eugene Chadbourne-g; = John Lindberg-b; Phillip Wilson-d,perc; John Zorn-as; Peter Kuhn-cl,bcl George Scala http://www.mindspring.com/~scala ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Adam Rock=20 To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 6:16 AM Subject: The Birth of Zorn's Alto Sax Endeavours. Dear Zorn-listers, I once read somewhere that Zorn didn't first pick up the alto sax = until he was 21 and that he originally practiced around 8 hours a day. = Does anyone know if this information is factual? Also can anyone tell me = when Zorn first played the alto sax on a studio recording or during a = live performance? Thanks in advance, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01C039B3.35FBD680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe Zorn's first studio recording = issued=20 was:
 
The Frank Lowe = Orchestra 
Lowe & Behold 
Musicworks 3002 
USA rec NYC,=20 10/77      
Frank Lowe-ts,comp,arr; Joseph=20 Bowie-tb; Butch Morris-cor; Arthur Williams-tp; Billy=20 Bang-vln; Polly Bradfield-vln; Eugene Chadbourne-g; John=20 Lindberg-b; Phillip Wilson-d,perc; John Zorn-as; Peter=20 Kuhn-cl,bcl
George Scala
http://www.mindspring.com/~scal= a
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Adam Rock
Sent: Thursday, October 19, = 2000 6:16=20 AM
Subject: The Birth of Zorn's = Alto Sax=20 Endeavours.

Dear Zorn-listers,
 
I once read somewhere that Zorn didn't first pick up the alto sax = until=20 he was 21 and that he originally practiced around 8 hours a day. Does = anyone=20 know if this information is factual? Also can anyone tell me when Zorn = first=20 played the alto sax on a studio recording or during a live = performance?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01C039B3.35FBD680-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: Naked City / Masada Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:00:55 -0400 THanks for these direct-from-Zorn quotes. It is so hard to find any since he doesnt like doing too many interviews. what articles or web sites did you get these quotes from? > From: "Ari" > Subject: Naked City / Masada > > Maybe this helps the recent discussion on the list: > what Zorn himself said on: > a) Masada = Coleman + Klezmer > "The one thing that really surprises me and ... > b) Why Naked City stopped playing > "I feel the need to write for other ensembles, ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:13:23 EDT In a message dated 10/19/00 6:18:56 AM, a_gadney@hotmail.com writes: << What is the current AMM line-up? >> Eddie Pr=E9vost-percussion Keith Rowe-guitar, electronics John Tilbury-piano Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: Naked City / Masada Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:25:13 -0400 > From: "Arthur Gadney" > Subject: Re: Naked City / Masada >> what Zorn himself said on: >> a) Masada "...I mean, I could do it with a hardcore band." > > Hardcore Masada?! Wauw, that I'd like to hear!! What would be a good lineup > for that... ;-) Yeah!! Yeah!! Me too!! He could use the same guys from the SPY VS SPY group since he called that his first hardcore exploration... or andrew weiss, sim caine etc (those guys that backed-up Henry Rollins for awhile) who Zorn has played with before... or the Mr. Bungle boys, like Trey Spruance, Mike Patton, Trevor Dunn, etc... or, in fantasy land, he could create a classic early 80s hardcore line-up with Greg Ginn the guitar player from BLACK FLAG, Derf Scratch the sax player from FEAR, John Doe the bass player from X, Earl Hudson the drummer from the BAD BRAINS, and for the life of me right now I cant think of any keyboard player from any hardcore punk band?!?! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada once more... Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:28:26 EDT In a message dated 10/19/00 8:54:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nbar@di.fc.ul.pt writes: << I think that, by releasing album after album, Zorn has created an expectation that he should be able to fullfil, but hasn't yet. Masada is a great band, excellent musicians, everything... and that's precisely the reason why it's a pity to see them play such boring music. >> See, this is what I don't understand. How is that Ornette Coleman is exciting and vibrant (to most of this list it seems, and to me as well), yet Masada is sweepingly referred to as "boring"? I'm listening to Masada RIGHT NOW and it is anything but boring. In fact, it's jaw-droppingly inspired. True, Masada's music isn't as "revolutionary" as Coleman's harmodolics, but who cares? Does one need to invent something wholly new for it to be exciting? By following that rationale to its most absurd conclusion all notes are boring. All songs are boring. All symphonies are boring. Improvisation is boring because it's been done countless times before. (And I won't even get in to the fact that inventing something wholly new is virtually impossible. Coleman, as groundbreaking as he was/is, still worked within the jazz idiom and used melodies in a fairly traditional way.) This is not a diss of Coleman. His discs are still in heavy rotation at my house. And this is also not to say that I think Masada is playing Klezmer Coleman. To my ears they go far beyond that. I'm just trying to understand why my favorite contemporary band is being called boring so often by so many. Is it because the rhetoric that surrounds these debates demands "revolutionary" music be the highest standard of quality? Curious, Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: papagian@nat.vu.nl ( Emmanouil Papagiannakis) Subject: Re: Zorn in Den Haag Date: 19 Oct 2000 16:34:14 +0200 Additional information i received from a friend is: zorn will play on the Festival in de Branding and will perform a set with trio Guus Janssen. On friday 20 oktober at "Theater aan het Spui" (Kleine Zaal) . Adress: Spui 187 Den Haag. The concert starts at 20:15 Also playing that night are: Bas Keijzer (never heard of) and Steve Beresford (nice) Tickets: 070 346 52 72 only f12,50 manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:37:51 EDT In a message dated 10/19/00 10:14:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: << Eddie Pr=E9vost-percussion Keith Rowe-guitar, electronics John Tilbury-piano >> In the liner notes to the Crypt, from '91, Prevost talks about how the=20 current line up of Gare [Lou, sax], de Saram [Rohan, cello], Prevost, Rowe=20 and Tilbury had yet to record. Interesting, since they STILL have yet to=20 record, even though the trio formation has relased plenty of albums since. =20 -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:41:24 EDT In a message dated 10/19/00 3:15:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << BTW, in the recent heretic/absinthe thread, i wrote that heretic is quite weak. I listened to the album again, and I would like to apologize for the lack of truth in my opinions. >> Why? Aren't ones opinions 'true' when one has them? Or are they 'false' if everyone thinks you're wrong? No need to apologize. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada once more... Date: 19 Oct 2000 11:05:05 EDT In a message dated 10/19/00 10:30:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Samerivertwice@aol.com writes: << See, this is what I don't understand. How is that Ornette Coleman is exciting and vibrant (to most of this list it seems, and to me as well), yet Masada is sweepingly referred to as "boring"? I'm listening to Masada RIGHT NOW and it is anything but boring. For me, the playing is very boring. It's loud and soft and dynamic, and they interact, but its still boring. I feel that they are playing 'jazzily' not playing 'jazz.' In fact, it's jaw-droppingly inspired. True, Masada's music isn't as "revolutionary" as Coleman's harmodolics, but who cares? Does one need to invent something wholly new for it to be exciting? By following that rationale to its most absurd conclusion all notes are boring. All songs are boring. All symphonies are boring. Improvisation is boring because it's been done countless times before. Two points: 1)All you people that think those who don't like Masada only want revolutions are wrong, wrong, wrong! When he said 'revolution within the group' he meant evolution, which seemed obvious to me. Just because we don't like this group doesn't necessarily make us avant-garde torch-bearer-wannabes, just because we like other Zorn things that happen to be more avant-garde. At least it doesn't make me that; I like lots of music that many people on this list would thumb their damn nose at for its mainstream or non-revolutionary nature. 2)By your reasoning, Masada can be said to equal the greatness of Bach, Beethoven, Carter, Miles, Xenakis, Ornette, Jimi Hendrix, none of whom invented something wholly new, but all of whom have created music I, and probably lots of people, like more than Masada. (And I won't even get in to the fact that inventing something wholly new is virtually impossible. Coleman, as groundbreaking as he was/is, still worked within the jazz idiom and used melodies in a fairly traditional way.) This is not a diss of Coleman. His discs are still in heavy rotation at my house. And this is also not to say that I think Masada is playing Klezmer Coleman. To my ears they go far beyond that. I'm just trying to understand why my favorite contemporary band is being called boring so often by so many. Is it because the rhetoric that surrounds these debates demands "revolutionary" music be the highest standard of quality? My ears are not too shabby, either, and I am really hard-pressed to find anything other than those two influences on any of those Masada quartet albums. Bar Kohkba's another story, though I find that even more boring. Frankly, Zorn's quote, posted earlier, does not impress me. Unless of course he means that all the music one studies goes into all the music one creates, which is fine, since that at least is somewhat true. Somehow, however, I don't get that impression. Additionally, I think those that dislike Masada are in the minority on this list, in probably in general. Curious, Tom >> -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Zero Masada once more... Date: 19 Oct 2000 10:39:13 -0400 On Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 11:05:05AM -0400, Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > For me, the playing is very boring. It's loud and soft and dynamic, and they > interact, but its still boring. I feel that they are playing 'jazzily' not > playing 'jazz.' Hmm... another redefinition taking place, to sit on the shelf of "Words That Supposedly Don't Mean What People Mean by Them", along with "styles", "music", and ... uh ... whatever the others were. All are directed to Chapter 6 of "Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found There", at http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/~bchar/carroll/alice_25.html#SEC28 -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Beardsley Subject: NYC: live microtonal music Date: 19 Oct 2000 11:47:10 -0700 Sunday 22, 2000 7:00 pm World Premiere Vixa for microtonal guitar synthesizer by David Beardsley Free live in-store performance at Downtown Music Gallery 211 E. 5th St. N.Y., N.Y. 10003 Phone: (212) 473-0043 http://www.dtmgallery.com/presents.htm -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time" * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Metropolis(Non-Zorn related) Date: 19 Oct 2000 11:52:46 EDT In a message dated 10/18/00 2:15:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mariusergo@hotmail.com writes: > Does anyone have any knowledge of the different soundtracks that has been > made to Fritz Lang's Metropolis? Art Zoyd has a soundtrack to the movie, don't they? -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: berne, eller and barre Date: 19 Oct 2000 11:52:56 -0500 anyone have a cd by the Italian band Enten Eller (with Tim Berne guesting) called "Melquiades" ? your opinions will be welcome... >>i wish i had it! i've heard it a couple times and it smokes. don't know why i didn't buy it at the time. (how do you pronounce "Barre"?!) thanks.. >>i've always heard it pronounced like 'bar,' but i wouldn't swear on knowing... kg np: willie nelson - revolutions of time...the journey (disc 2), in particular the version of 'night life' with ray price and some excellent playing by willie. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: PROMO: Thomas Lehn/Marcus Schmickler-Bart Date: 19 Oct 2000 12:11:51 EDT sorry for the promotional intrusion, and further apologies if you receive=20 more than one copy of this: I'm proud to announce the release of the latest CD on my label: Thomas Lehn/Marcus Schmickler-Bart (Erstwhile 012) Thomas Lehn and Marcus Schmickler are both well-known electroacoustic=20 musicians from Cologne, but they come from very different backgrounds. Lehn=20 is from the world of improvisation, while Schmickler's previous work lies=20 predominantly in the world of studio production. Lehn is best known for the=20 CD projects Tom and Gerry (Erstwhile), Konk Pack-Big Deep (Grob), and=20 e-rax-Live at the BIMhuis 1999 (X-Or), as well as for his consistently super= b=20 performances on the European festival circuit. Schmickler has been involved=20 with numerous projects, including the seminal collective Kontakta (Odd Size)= .=20 As a solo artist, Schmickler has created important works such as Wabi Sabi=20 (A-Musik), as well as three CDs under the name Pluramon, all on Mille=20 Plateaux, including the just released remix project Bit Sand Riders. He's=20 also worked extensively in the house and techno scenes, both on his own and=20 with musicians such as Thomas Brinkmann and Cristian Vogel. In December of 1998, Schmickler joined the MIMEO, of which Lehn was already=20= a=20 member, and the two began to collaborate occasionally within the band. This=20 past summer, the duo recorded Bart over the course of two long studio=20 sessions. A brilliant amalgam of the two musicians' strengths, Bart utilizes= =20 both improvisation and studio postproduction techniques to create a lasting=20 work, combining the feel of a classic INA-GRM record with the raw, crackling= =20 energy of a free improv session.=20 The unique look of the artwork was created by Cologne graphic designer Heike= =20 Sperling, in conjunction with the two musicians and Bianca Strauch. "very cool cd!!! the real sound of cologne! cd of the year potential and all= =20 that."-Pita personnel: Thomas Lehn - analogue synthesizer Marcus Schmickler - digital synthesizer, computer track listing: 1. =E2=80=9Egelb=E2=80=9D-9:31 2. Ziege-7:03 3. OS-7:00 4. Du Funktion-30:10 5. Temp Close-5:24 more info available at the following web sites, or contact Erstwhile Records= =20 at ErstRecs@aol.com: http://www.erstwhilerecords.com http://www.mindspring.com/~gerryhem/lehn.html http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/musician/mlehn.html all Erstwhile CDs can be purchased from numerous worldwide distributors, all= =20 of which are listed on my web site. also, all Erstwhile releases can be=20 purchased via direct mail order, details of which are also on my web site.=20 future releases from Erstwhile will include: 010: G=C3=BCnter M=C3=BCller/L=C3=AA Quan Ninh-La Voyelle Liquide (released=20= October 20) 011: Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack-Bits, Bots & Signs (released mid-November) 013: Axel D=C3=B6rner/Kevin Drumm 014: Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow 015: Phil Durrant/Thomas Lehn/Radu Malfatti 016: Toshimaru Nakamura/Sachiko M. also available now: 001-VHF-Extracts 002-Haunted House-Up In Flames 003-Earl Howard/Denman Maroney-Fire Song 004-2-Thomas Lehn/Gerry Hemingway-Tom & Gerry (double CD) 005-Keith Rowe/G=C3=BCnter M=C3=BCller/Taku Sugimoto-The World Turned Upside= Down 006-Kevin Drumm/Martin T=C3=A9treault-Particles and Smears 007-John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs 008-Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee 009-Dean Roberts/Werner Dafeldecker-Aluminium thanks for reading. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada once more... Date: 19 Oct 2000 13:52:56 EDT In a message dated Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:22:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Joseph Zitt writes: << On Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 11:05:05AM -0400, Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > For me, the playing is very boring. It's loud and soft and dynamic, and they > interact, but its still boring. I feel that they are playing 'jazzily' not > playing 'jazz.' Hmm... another redefinition taking place, to sit on the shelf of "Words That Supposedly Don't Mean What People Mean by Them", along with "styles", "music", and ... uh ... whatever the others were. All are directed to Chapter 6 of "Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found There", at http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/~bchar/carroll/alice_25.html#SEC28 -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - >>Wow, pretty stunning rebut there. I guess since you apparently would rather insult me than discuss, I'll be a little less subtle. The playing is SHALLOW. It sounds like they've listened to jazz, they've really learned how to imitate what they perceive as the 'style', and they are convincing because they can play their instrument well. They do listen and react, but the reality for me is that their playing is shallow because what they are doing is pieceing together styles to make what supposedly passes for original playing, when in fact its a pastiche of other musicians souls. They've got the 4th rate blues licks, the swoops and honks, the imitation where one guy mimics the other guy and they whip it into a fren zy, they spazz out, they play harmonic minor scale variants, etc. That's as far as they go. I really don't mean to upset people who like this music; if it works for you, then fine, it shouldn't upset you. This is my viewpoint and its why it doesn't work for me. It doesn't mean that these players haven't done WONDERFUL things in the past elsewhere; they indeed have. As for your little jab at me for 'redefining' words - I didn't know that music was defined by style. Where did you learn this? According to you, that's how it is. I attempted to characterize my dislike for Masada without resorting to what I needed to a couple of paragraphs ago, but your insistence upon tiny little pinpricks against me has caused me to resort to a slightly harsher approach. You apparently feel that art is such a neat and tidy little object than can be easily characterized and boxed, not to mention the fact that you haven't even attempted to come up with anything at all to intelligently discuss this. Then again, if music for you equals styles, then I'm happy for you, because you will always have it easy. You'll have nice little boxes in which to fit everything you want, and then you can throw away what you don't need. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Zero Masada once more... Date: 19 Oct 2000 13:35:40 -0400 On Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 01:52:56PM -0400, Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:22:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Joseph > Zitt writes: > As for your little jab at me for 'redefining' words - I didn't know that > music was defined by style. Where did you learn this? According to you, > that's how it is. I attempted to characterize my dislike for Masada without > resorting to what I needed to a couple of paragraphs ago, but your insistence > upon tiny little pinpricks against me has caused me to resort to a slightly > harsher approach. You apparently feel that art is such a neat and tidy > little object than can be easily characterized and boxed, not to mention the > fact that you haven't even attempted to come up with anything at all to > intelligently discuss this. > > Then again, if music for you equals styles, then I'm happy for you, because > you will always have it easy. You'll have nice little boxes in which to fit > everything you want, and then you can throw away what you don't need. An utterly amazing example of an argument wrapping itself up and tripping over the shroud. Since none of it bears any resemblance to anything that could conceivably be read into the message to which it ostensibly responds, nothing in it remains that is answerable. "That's glory for you." -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: berne/enten eller Date: 19 Oct 2000 18:47:54 +0200 Yes, I have this one. It is not very similar to other recordings of Tim Berne. Some some pieces sound like ECM releases, others sound more like Bloodcount. But it is no CD that you must have. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de Thursday, October 19, 2000, 2:32:56 PM, you wrote: Hywel> anyone have a cd by the Italian band Enten Eller (with Hywel> Tim Berne guesting) called "Melquiades" ? your Hywel> opinions will be welcome... Hywel> also, Ecm are releasing a live cd by Paul Bley, Evan Hywel> Parker and Barre Phillips - "sankt gerold"...(how do Hywel> you pronounce "Barre"?!) thanks.. Hywel> __________________________________________________ Hywel> Do You Yahoo!? Hywel> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. Hywel> http://im.yahoo.com/ Hywel> - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Erik M. Date: 19 Oct 2000 18:50:37 +0200 Does anyone know a recording of Erik M.? Right now, I couldn't find any. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: Metropolis(Non-Zorn related) Date: 19 Oct 2000 21:54:26 +0200 Marius Ergo wrote: > > Does anyone have any knowledge of the different soundtracks that has been > made to Fritz Lang's Metropolis? On my copy the music is tottally amazing, one of the "gods" of techno, mr. jeff mills, has just released a soundtrack to this film. i know it's totally off topic, but so what... patRice np: salt city orchestra "paper music issue 2" nr: eiji yoshikawa "musashi" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sen" Subject: Tr: The great & beautiful Jeanne Lee, ill with cancer in Tijuana Date: 19 Oct 2000 22:00:23 +0200 May I please ask you to read the following info. It's a bout a wonderful musician most of us adore, I think. -----Message d'origine----- De : Margaret Davis =C0 : avantgarde list Date : jeudi 19 octobre 2000 13:02 Objet : [Avant-Garde] The great & beautiful Jeanne Lee, ill with cancer i= n Tijuana Dear Friends, I am sorry to be the bearer of sad & worrisome tidings, but as many of you already know, the great & beautiful singer / composer / educator Jeanne Lee is very ill with cancer. Please accept my apologies if you already have the following information, as I haven't the time to go through & edit my E~mail list. Jeanne was diagnosed last spring & had radical surgery in Europe at that time; afterwards, her doctor referred her to a special hospital based in California with a treatment center in Tijuana, Mexico, where advanced alternative care is available for her. Those who are interested may see the hospital's Web site for further information about this: http://www.ab-mexico-hospital.com/Hospital or E~mail integrativehospital@americanbiologics.com . Although Jeanne Lee, who has a master's degree from NYU, has been teaching at two music conservatories in Europe since 1996, she has been refused health insurance, & her family is faced with the need to raise an enormous sum of money for the treatments she desperately needs. Jeanne Lee is not only a great musician & a great educator; she's also a glorious person who moves & inspires everyone who is blessed to know her. I am sure many will want to help in every way we possibly can. So... here's what we can all do: (1) No doubt there will be many benefit concerts all over the world for Jeanne Lee. One concert that I know about at present will take place Sunday, November 5 at 3 p.m. at the Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St. betw. Broadway & Church St's about 5 blocks below Canal St., venue information http://www.knittingfactory.com , info@knittingfactory.com , phone (212) 219~3OO6. The musicians' roster is still developing, but presently scheduled to play are Rashied Ali, Roy Campbell, Jr., Cooper~Moore, Kali Fasteau, Jason Hwang, Sensei / Shaku Joseph Jarman, Sabir Mateen, Wilber Morris, Dewey Redman, Lisa Sokolov, & others. Tickets are $2O (seniors, students & artists $15), & 9O% of the proceeds will go directly for Jeanne Lee's medical care (the Knitting Factory is keeping the other 1O%). You can come to this concert & make your financial contribution & join in celebrating Jeanne Lee & sending a lot of love & music her way. If you can't get to the concert, information on where to send financial donations follows, but I just want to suggest that perhaps you can help get a benefit concert happening for Jeanne Lee wherever you are. (2) Everyone can also send donations to help with Jeanne Lee's medical care: Please send a check payable to Emigrant Savings Bank & marked "CREDIT TO ACCOUNT OF JEANNE LEE~HAZELTON" & mail it to 5 East 42nd St., New York, NY 1OO17. The family also asks that you report your donation to her daughter Cavana via E~mail, cavana77@hotmail.com . (3) People can send cards & gifts to Jeanne Lee~Hazelton at the hospital= : c/o Hospital American Biologics Paseo Playas No. 142O Secc. Jardines Playas de Tijuana Baja California Mexico Or if you're within the U.S. & are sending a package & it's easier for you, you can send it to hospital headquarters in California, as they forward mail daily to the Tijuana center: Jeanne Lee~Hazelton c/o American Biologic Hospital 664 Marsat Court, suite D Chula Vista, CA 91911. Her daughter Naima Hazelton wrote to me a few days ago to tell me that Jeanne Lee has a tape & CD player near her bed, so a welcome gift would be recorded healing music. (As Albert Ayler said, "Music is the healing force of the universe.") (4) If you are connected with a radio station or are otherwise a member o= f the press, you may find a partial Jeanne Lee discography helpful, so I've compiled one as quickly as possible. I apologize for my mistakes & omissions; I'm under serious time pressure here. Ran Blake: "You Stepped Out of a Cloud" (Owl #O55, '89) Carla Bley: "Escalator Over the Hill" (JCOA / ECM #83931O2, '7O) Marion Brown: "Afternoon of a Georgia Faun" (ECM #1OO4, '7O) Andrew Cyrille: "Nuba" (Black Saint BSR #OO3O, '79) Gunter Hampel: "The 8th July 1969" (Birth #OO1, '69) " "Ballet-Symphony" (Birth #OO3, '7O) " "Spirits" (Birth #OO7, '71) " "Family" (Birth #OO8, '72) " "Waltz for 3 Universes in a Corridor" (Birth #O= 1O, '72) " "Out from Under" (Birth #O16, '74) " "Cosmic Dancer" (Birth #O3O, '79) " "Cavana" (Birth #O34, '81) " "Generator" (Birth #O35, '81) " "Companions" (Birth #O36, '82) " "Jubilation" (Birth #O38, '83) " "Fresh Heat ~ Live at Sweet Basil" (Birth #O39, '83) " "Celestial Harmony" (Birth #O4O, '91?) (Gunter Hampel will be playing at the Knitting Factory, NYC on Fri., 1O/2= 5.) Peter Kowald: "Duos America" (FMP #127O, '86~'9O) " "Duos: Europa America Japan" (FMP #CD21, '86~'= 9O) Jeanne Lee: "Conspiracy (Earthform Records #814, '74) " "Natural Affinities" ('92, not sure of label) Archie Shepp: "Blase" (Charly CD #77, '69) Archie Shepp & Jeanne Lee (West Wind #2O36, '84) Reggie Workman: "Images" (Music & Arts #634, '89). Besides these above~named musicians, the great Jeanne Lee has worked & recorded with a pantheon of our music, including, among others: Derek Bailey, Han Bennink, Lester Bowie, Peter Brotzmann, Dave Burrell, Don Byron, Daniel Carter, Chick Corea, Marilyn Crispell, Danny Davis, Malachi Favors, Charlie Haden, Julius Hemphill, Leroy Jenkins, Sheila Jordan, Jimmy Lyons, Benny Maupin, John McLaughlin, Lawrence "Butch" Morris, Sunny Murray, Evan Parker, Zeena Parkins, Dewey Redman, & Roswell Rudd. (5) I am in touch with Jeanne Lee's family & will keep my Web site up to date, so please check http://www.jazznewyork.org for latest news of the great Jeanne Lee. (6) Please send your prayers, love, good wishes & healing vibrations to Jeanne Lee as you know best how to do! In love, music, & haste (my usual states of being), Margaret Davis, Editor & Publisher, "Art Attack!," the newsletter for & about liberation musicians in NYC, on the Web at http://www.jazznewyork.org . P.S. I want to thank Ed Hazell & James Lindbloom for the initial notification about Jeanne Lee's condition, & Kali Fasteau for news of the benefit concert at the Knitting Factory. P.S. again: If you do not want to receive any further messages from me, please reply with "remove" in the subject heading. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton Subject: Re: speed copied byron ? Date: 19 Oct 2000 15:41:02 -0500 (CDT) The Belgian spoke... > Did any of you notice the apparent similarity of "Graphic Ridiculous" by > Chris Speed on 'Iffy' and "Bernhard Goetz, James Ramseur And Me" by Don > Byron on 'Romance with the Unseen' ? Wow. These are indeed alarmingly similar. The thing is, I'd be willing to bet that Chris has been playing his tune longer than Byron has his; Chris had been gigging the Iffy trio for a while before taking them into the studio, whereas I'd guess most of the tunes on the Byron record were composed for that record (though I could be, of course, completely and totally wrong on this one). Plus Chris registered his with BMI a good bit earlier (via bmi.com). Though why Byron would potentially jack a tune from Speed is kind of uncertain (especially after talking a bunch of inadvertent trash about him in that old issue of JazzTimes...). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Naked City / Masada Date: 19 Oct 2000 16:52:30 -0500 Ari wrote: > Then I do it with the sextet, and > people say, "Yeah, it's a real loungey, easy-listening Les Baxter type of > thing." I agree with that statement entirely. It's why I prefer Bar Kokhba's first record to any live performance I've seen. > I mean, I could do it with a hardcore band." The earliest Masada I have (on private video tape - and no, I don't have any way to copy it) damn near IS a hardcore band, or at least extremely punky (from memory, Zorn, Ribot, Kato Hideki and Ben Perowsky). > In my opinion NC has become too wellknown, too popular for my liking. > It had become something dangerous: I felt the audience was sucking my > blood... They used to ask for their favourite piece. They just wanted the > same things, they weren't looking for something new. And I can't keep on > going in a situation like that even if it would seem to be very attractive > on the surface". This echoes exactly the reason Robert Fripp disbanded King Crimson in 1974 (citing "vampiric" audiences) and to this date refuses to play old material (although they've loosened up just a bit on their recent Japanese jaunt, adding "Red" to the setlist). Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Francisco Lopez, 'Untitled #74' (Table of the Elements) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada once more... Date: 19 Oct 2000 17:15:36 EDT In a message dated 10/19/2000 10:30:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Samerivertwice@aol.com writes: > By following that rationale to its most absurd conclusion all > notes are boring. All songs are boring. All symphonies are boring. > Improvisation is boring because it's been done countless times before. Invention and innovation is getting boring. Humanity has been fascinated with that stuff for way too long. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Zornlist archives? Date: 19 Oct 2000 17:35:29 -0500 Can someone remind me where the Zornlist archives are located? I want to look up discourse on a subject I seem to remember having been discussed recently, without retreading on the list. Thanks, Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Polwechsel, "Ost," 'Polwechsel' (hat[now]ART) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Zornlist archives? Date: 20 Oct 2000 00:45:57 +0100 They're at ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/ latest is vol3 no 125, I believe ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 11:35 PM > Can someone remind me where the Zornlist archives are located? I want > to look up discourse on a subject I seem to remember having been > discussed recently, without retreading on the list. > > Thanks, > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > NP - Polwechsel, "Ost," 'Polwechsel' (hat[now]ART) > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Sidsel Endreson (no Zorn content, but read it, it's interesting!) Date: 20 Oct 2000 00:57:51 +0100 Last Friday I went to Ronnie Scotts for the first time ever, to see Sidsel Endreson, a breathtaking Norwegian singer. She has two albums on ECM (which I have), the last of which came out in 1994, featuring (amongst others) Django Bates and Nils Potter Molvaer. Her band comprised a bass flautist, a drummer and a guitarist. All three were playing with electronics/samplers. Sidsel herself sang a mixture of English and Norwegian/"scat" (and did a mean Joe Cocker gesture impression). It was a moving and fascinating experience. What I'm asking, of probably the only people I know who might be able to help me out, is does anyone have any further info on Sidsel, especially what on earth she's been doing these last six years? Whilst her vocal modus operandi hasn't changed, her band are producing wonderful sounds. I've done all sorts of searches on the internet but have come up with nothing. And if she's heading your way, check her out. You won't be disappointed. A - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 20 Oct 2000 01:11:47 +0100 Excuse me for speaking for everyone, but I'd say we're all rather obsessed with music, and discovering stuff which is new to us. So I found myself buying a 21CD Frank Sinatra box set (The Capitol Years) a couple of weeks ago. I have no other Frank Sinatra records. I was in the scrum when the doors opened at the HMV sale, trying to get my hands on a £50 complete Beatles box (let's not get into that argument again!) and picked up the other special offer (same price). I took a few minutes, thinking "this is his best stuff - all the concept albums", "you're a big boy now, maybe it's time to see whether Frank is for you", and "if it's shit you can sell it for more". So I went ahead, much to the amusement of my coworkers when I turned up with it. Well, I've been working my way through it and it's great. But that's not the point. A few hours after making the purchase I realised that my music obsession may be out of control. I mean, *21 Frank Sinatra CDs*, for heaven's sake! So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music obsession was out of control? And did you care? (We could have a sweepstake on how many Merzbox mentions come up;-)) A - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 19 Oct 2000 20:14:15 EDT In a message dated 10/19/2000 5:12:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wilsonah@hotmail.com writes: << So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music obsession was out of control? And did you care? >> I think mine hit is peak when I recently, over the course of two weeks, spent quite a few dollars on 10 Jandek LP's.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 19 Oct 2000 20:33:01 EDT In a message dated 10/19/00 8:12:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wilsonah@hotmail.com writes: > obsession was > well, i have always been a bit crazy with my cd collection, but i would have to say when i discovered Frank Zappa. oh boy....i would pick up at least one a week (which is NOTHING compared to my cd habit today) and at the bottom of the checks (the "memo" line) i would write "ZAPPA." thats right folks, i was justifying my cd habit by the fact that frank zappa is so f'n awesome. i got a bit more neurotic as time went on....and i found ZORN......that being said, i'm beginning to feel that powerful urge again. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Erik M. Date: 19 Oct 2000 20:51:43 -0400 At 06:50 PM 10/19/00 +0200, Tim Blechmann wrote: >Does anyone know a recording of Erik M.? He has solo recordings on Metamkine and Sonoris, plus collaborative efforts on For 4 Ears (Poire_Z) and Stupeur & Trompette (Sculpteurs de Vinyl). The Metamkine piece is a 3" electroacoustic piece composed of previous release in the Cinema pour l'oreille series and is pretty good. The Sonoris release covers a lot of ground but there's a long narrative loop in the middle that takes something away for me. Poire_Z also includes G=FCnter M=FCller and Voice Crack, and is excellent, and Sculpteurs de Vinyl is with Otomo and other turntablists and avant players. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Crimson (was NC & Masada) Date: 19 Oct 2000 20:53:47 -0400 At 04:52 PM 10/19/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > >This echoes exactly the reason Robert Fripp disbanded King Crimson in 1974 >(citing "vampiric" audiences) and to this date refuses to play old material >(although they've loosened up just a bit on their recent Japanese jaunt, adding >"Red" to the setlist). One of the Projekt albums has a glimmer of 21st century schizoid man, or is the title a joke because the entire track is the audience hollering at some poor chump who took a flash picture, causing Fripp et al to leave the stage? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but Date: 19 Oct 2000 17:57:32 -0700 I think buying the Frank Sinatra 'Concept' box is a good value. Those albums are great. One of my all-time favorite album is In the Wee Wee Hours... Classic Sinatra package! > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Zero Masada once more... Date: 20 Oct 2000 12:05:58 +1000 > My ears are not too shabby, either, and I am really hard-pressed to find > anything other than those two influences on any of those Masada quartet > albums. You should probably listen to them some more... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zachary Griffin Subject: Re: Crimson Date: 19 Oct 2000 21:29:55 -0400 > > > One of the Projekt albums has a glimmer of 21st century schizoid man, or is > the title a joke because the entire track is the audience hollering at some > poor chump who took a flash picture, causing Fripp et al to leave the stage? > I was at the Northampton show that was recorded for a Projeckt Two live CD (I can't remember if it was on the box-set or a Crimson Collector's Club CD). They did 21st Century Schizoid Man. Fripp and the others didn't leave the stage because someone taking a flash picture that night, though. Zach Griffin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 19 Oct 2000 22:19:48 EDT wilsonah@hotmail.com writes: << So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music obsession was out of control? And did you care? >> I'm in complete denial about my addiction tho I've never bought more than a 4 cd set and try not to buy something because its supposed to be important. Only if its supposed to be good. That reminds me of a poster awhile back who said his collection is divided between those he's never heard and those he's heard at least once. The cds he never heard were the bigger half. I can hear him telling his wife, "Honey, I'm going out to buy a bunch more cds. I only have a couple thousand that I haven't heard. Need to stock up." Cheers, John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 19 Oct 2000 22:28:48 EDT In a message dated Thu, 19 Oct 2000 8:12:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Alastair Wilson" writes: << So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music obsession was out of control? And did you care? >> When I bought *all* of the available Caroliner Rainbow LPs I could find during a 2-order fit (plus some singles and one-offs by members of CR). I think I've listened to 3 of the LPs to this point- the rest still in the original wrapping. You can only take so much of the group in a year. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 19 Oct 2000 21:53:20 -0400 On Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 10:19:48PM -0400, Fastian@aol.com wrote: > Only if its supposed to be good. That reminds me of a poster awhile back > who said his collection is divided between those he's never heard and those > he's heard at least once. The cds he never heard were the bigger half. I can That may have been me. I *have* gotten razzed for having the Onobox... though not by the guy I know who has 250 books with mentions of Yoko :-)... and for having about 7 Boyz II Men CD singles... I've had to put a momentary lull on my CD shopping, since I lost (and therefore cancelled) my credit card recently (thus truncating my trip to Montreal goddammit). I'd gotten in the habit of ordering pretty much every week several discs from the Anomalous and Forced Exposure new release emails. As it is, I drop into the Tower on the way home from work several times a week (though I wish I knew who the hell got the one copy they got in of Zorn's "Xu Feng" before I could *grumble*). n.p. Cornelius Cardew: Treatise -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but Date: 19 Oct 2000 23:19:13 -0400 (EDT) > Only if its supposed to be good. That reminds me of a poster awhile back >who said his collection is divided between those he's never heard and those >he's heard at least once. The cds he never heard were the bigger half. I can I remember reading that and also thought it was shocking. I am still unsure why someone would rave about the size of his cd collection, in the first place, and why he would think anyone else is interested (other than envious) - cds are becoming so expensive it's almost indecent. On the other hand, of course I feel it's important to support local artists. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 19 Oct 2000 22:44:27 -0400 On Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 11:19:13PM -0400, Benjamin Pequet wrote: > > Only if its supposed to be good. That reminds me of a poster awhile back > >who said his collection is divided between those he's never heard and those > >he's heard at least once. The cds he never heard were the bigger half. I can > > I remember reading that and also thought it was shocking. I am still unsure > why someone would rave about the size of his cd collection, in the first > place, and why he would think anyone else is interested (other than envious) > - cds are becoming so expensive it's almost indecent. Not so much a rave as a bemused look, mentioned because people are interested in each others collections (as shown by its continual popping up in conversation on these lists). > On the other hand, of course I feel it's important to support local artists. And with the wide distribution of music nowadays, "local" is becoming hard to define. FWIW, I often buy discs at gigs and from smaller, more direct sources than the big shops, whereby, one would hope, more of the cost goes either to the artist or to those making an effort to get the word out about the music. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Barre, Prévost (Re: berne/enten eller) Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:47:11 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Hywel" == Hywel Davies writes: Hywel> anyone have a cd by the Italian band Enten Eller (with Tim Hywel> Berne guesting) called "Melquiades" ? your opinions will be Hywel> welcome... also, Ecm are releasing a live cd by Paul Bley, Hywel> Evan Parker and Barre Phillips - "sankt gerold"...(how do Hywel> you pronounce "Barre"?!) thanks.. I've heard Parker and Bley pronounce it as /bar/. How does Eddie Prévost pronounce his name -- PREEvost, PRAYvost, priVOST, prayVOST, or some other way? --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ari" Subject: Re: Re: Naked City / Masada Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:47:57 +0200 > THanks for these direct-from-Zorn quotes. It is so hard to find any since he > doesnt like doing too many interviews. what articles or web sites did you > get these quotes from? > The quote about Masada comes from an interview by Larry Blumenfeld, published in Jazziz, august 1999. The one about Naked City comes from an interview by Carla Chiti in the 'John Zorn'-book "Itinerari Oltre Il Suono", Materiali Sonori, 1998. Ari. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Barre,=20Pr=E9vost=20(Re:=20berne/enten=20e?= Date: 20 Oct 2000 03:55:07 EDT In a message dated 10/20/00 3:48:14 AM, steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE writes: << How does Eddie Pr=E9vost pronounce his name -- PREEvost, PRAYvost, priVOST, prayVOST, or some other way? >> I was saying priVOST this past weekend, but I'm not positive that's correct. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: K.C. Date: 20 Oct 2000 08:42:45 +0200 > np. King Crimson: Red (24 bit remaster... ooh...) Do the remasters really sound better then the earlier releases? Sorry for asking that here, but puting such a question on ET (crimso list) would cause a two-months debate with all possible options... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: absinthe live? Date: 20 Oct 2000 08:52:12 +0200 stephen drury wrote : > pretty much true - it was a varied program including cat-o-nine-tails (i > think), carny (that's why i was there) and absinthe, which may have included > david shea & willie winant ... i don't remember ribot being there, but my > memory is also a bit hazy. Was it recorded? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor ----- Original Message ----- From - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:28:13 +0200 > A few hours after making the purchase I realised that my music obsession may > be out of control. I mean, *21 Frank Sinatra CDs*, for heaven's sake! > > So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music > obsession was out of control? And did you care? When i got paid for a long-time job (the translation of a book, namely Fodor's 'The elm and the Expert' - hard work) I went to a shop and bought a large 'dose' of cds. But i still had some money left, and was wondering about buying a seconmd hand synthor something. Imagine my surprise when it came out that the rest of it was captured by the bank the next day... as the credit card debt i made on buying discs earlier that month. I did not even notice that i 've bought any large portion of music earlier! Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:07:04 +0200 > In a message dated 10/19/00 3:15:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: > > << BTW, in the recent heretic/absinthe thread, i wrote that heretic is quite > weak. I listened to the album again, and I would like to apologize for the > lack of truth in my opinions. >> > > Why? Aren't ones opinions 'true' when one has them? Or are they 'false' if > everyone thinks you're wrong? No need to apologize. There was some irony intended. I just stroke me that just after posting a negative opinion on an album, i relistened to it and foud it incredible. How all that changes... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor ----- Original Message ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Metropolis(Non-Zorn related) Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:12:01 +0200 A polish band called primitivo (which does not exist anymore) made a quite intersting soundtrack for the shortened (about 40 mins) version of the film they prepared. It was quite nice. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:09:30 +0200 > applies to the songbook idea, not to mention the idea the a comparison of the > Masada 'songbook' with that of Monk is utterly laughable anyway. Our opinions differ here. > Speaking for myself, something does not have to be revolutionary in order to > be interesting. Its just that I find Masada utterly boring. The concept > behind it could MAYBE be interesting, but the execution of it is not. I have > a feeling that most others on the list who don't like it would feel vaguely > similar. If that's what you feel about masada, i understand you (in a sense - i undrestand *that* you dislike masada, not *your dislike* ;-)). But if somebody buys 3 cds of a band, i'd be surprised if he thinks that the music the band makes is *simply* boring. If one likes 3 cds, and 7 others are 'exactlly alike', then one should like the other 7 as well. > Morally speaking, perhaps there is something wrong with releasing album after > album of the SAME stuff after you've gained fans that have 'trusted' you. I > mean, the whole Masada IV thing, forcing people at first to buy all the > others and send in for a 20 minute release of the SAME thing? Then releasing > it and charging almost full price? Well, we do not have to buy all the albums (although Alastair's story about buying 21 cds boxed set of Sinatra makes one wonder...and i also had similiar experiences, and i think we all had;-). > As for Stravinsky, I've been listening to Strav for about 15 years and do not > hear any shred of his influence. In fact the description of Masada that you > take issue with is as concise as accurate as one could get. In can think of > few musics that can be summed up so neatly. > ps Stravinsky's 'neoclassic' stuff was always his least interesting music, as > far as I was concerned, at least. I think that masada is very much 'neoclassical' in the Strav sense , the 'classical' elements being jewish music and jazz, used in a way very similiar to the way IS uses 18 century patterns in his works (' the rake's progress' being the most obvious example) Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:39:57 +0200 > If one likes 3 cds, and 7 others are > 'exactlly alike', then one should like the other 7 as well. LOL that is an example of how faulty formal logic can be if applied to artistic expression... that depends on what you search for in music, do not you think so? Like, if you care for innovation/development or not. Your reasoning brings exactly to the conclusion "one Masada is enough" as instead of buying a new one you could just relisten to the old, maybe in shuffle mode! Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: Sidsel Endreson (no Zorn content, but read it, it's interesting!) Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:53:35 CEST >From: "Alastair Wilson" > >Last Friday I went to Ronnie Scotts for the first time ever, to see Sidsel >Endreson, a breathtaking Norwegian singer. What I'm asking, of probably the >only people I know who might be able to help me out, is does anyone have >any >further info on Sidsel, especially what on earth she's been doing these >last >six years? I saw Sidsel Endresen this summer at a jazz festival in Norway, with the band you are describing in your post. I'm not too sure who the flutist and guitarist is, but the drummer, Audun Kleive is really amazing. I also caught her live a couple of years ago when I walked into one of my regular hang-outs in Oslo, which is this tiny combined coffee house and jazz cd-shop. She was performing with a vocal trio called ESE, and they were mostly doing weird noises and stuff, but they sometimes use stuff like coffee mugs and whatever they may find at the places they are performing. ESE has a disc out on Jazzland records,keybord player Bugge Wesseltoft's record company. Sidsel has also done a bunch of collaborations with Bugge. She's on his New Conception of Jazz record; "Sharing", (which also features Nils Petter Molvær). She's also done a duet album with Bugge, called "Duplex Ride", and she's also on one short track on the new Molvær album "Solid Ether". You probably know this, but her new album, with her band, has just been released on Jazzland records. You can check it all out at www.jazzlandrec.com Hope this information was helpful - Marius _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Sex Mob and Krauss Versus Zorn Date: 20 Oct 2000 20:16:16 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01C03AD2.9A0780A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Zorn-listers, Would anyone who has heard Sex Mob's "Din of Inequity" care to provide a = brief review? Also how does the altoist Briggan Krauss compare with Zorn = in relation to playing style and ability? Does any zorn-lister have an = opinion regarding who they consider to be the best altoist in NYC at = present? Thanks again, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01C03AD2.9A0780A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Zorn-listers,
 
Would anyone who has heard Sex Mob's "Din of Inequity" care to = provide a=20 brief review? Also how does the altoist Briggan Krauss compare with Zorn = in relation to playing style and ability? Does any zorn-lister = have an=20 opinion regarding who they consider to be the best altoist in NYC at=20 present?
 
Thanks again,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01C03AD2.9A0780A0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Pr=E9vost?= Date: 20 Oct 2000 11:16:05 +0200 At 03:55 20/10/00 EDT, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 10/20/00 3:48:14 AM, steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE writes: > ><< How does Eddie Pr=E9vost pronounce his name -- PREEvost, PRAYvost, >priVOST, prayVOST, or some other way? >> > >I was saying priVOST this past weekend, but I'm not positive that's= correct. > >Jon >www.erstwhilerecords.com Well, as his name seems to have french roots, you may want to pronounce it the french way... which could be approximated by something like "PRAY-VO" (no EE, no ST).=20 But I'm not positive that's correct... Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: comments request Date: 20 Oct 2000 11:22:30 +0200 (DST) Anyone willing to post comments on Xu-Feng and/or the new Charms of the Night Sky? thanks, manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: solutions@archigraph.at Subject: no self-control (no ZOrn, little Branigan); Prevost Date: 20 Oct 2000 11:29:39 +0200 > So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music > obsession was out of control? when I bought two copies of the Merzbox -- the 2nd in case the discs in the= =20 1st ever wear out or I spill too much bong-water on the T-shirt "I, I live among the creatures of the night I haven't got the will to try= =20 and fight..." > How does Eddie Pr=E9vost pronounce his name -- PREEvost, PRAYvost, > priVOST, prayVOST, or some other way? ah axed him a coupla years ago and I think that he told me it was PREV-oh.= =20=20 a descendent of the mighty Huguenots. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:21:11 GMT > > > Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but Date: 20 Oct 2000 04:10:54 -0700 Now I feel weird. My habit is not out of control. Is there something wrong with me? When I started making decent money, I noticed a tendency to buy CDs impulsively. I shortly realized that it was pointless if I wasn't enjoying what I bought, and put the brakes on it. I do own more CDs than I've listened to, but I catch up, generally, before buying many more, and in particular will not buy one by a given artist if I've still got CDs by that artist I haven't heard yet. Not quite the same situation with the DVDs, but that's intentional. I like to have a couple dozen on hand I haven't seen, so that if I get the urge to watch a movie late at night, I've got a number from which to choose. I'm just not a collector, I guess. If it's something I'm not going to use - be it a CD, book, or video - I don't tend to want it around. Sick, huh? Lon - Floating Glowing Head + + + + + + + + + + + + + + www.floatingglowinghead.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mads Ruby" Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a Rozie question) Date: 20 Oct 2000 14:18:05 +0200 >- >That reminds me of a poster awhile back=20 >who said his collection is divided between those he's never heard and = those=20 >he's heard at least once. The cds he never heard were the bigger half. = I can=20 >hear him telling his wife, "Honey, I'm going out to buy a bunch more = cds. I=20 >only have a couple thousand that I haven't heard. Need to stock up." = Cheers, > John Threadgould > Hmnn, that sounds a little ridiculous - Usually I never buy more CDs = than I=B4m able to listen to, but recently I bought part of a vinyl = collection from this old jazz collector who didn=B4t care about vinyl = anymore. I got 75 incredibly cool albums for $30. And I really must say = that there is something absolutely wonderful about having a huge stack = of albums in reserve for a rainy day. So for the last month or so I=B4ve = indulged myself in Sun Ra, Albert Ayler, Archie Shepp and Zorn albums. = Frank Lowe, Geri Allen and Lester Bowie are still waiting. One album really surprised me though: Afro Algonquin by Rick Rozie, Lee = Rozie and Rashied Ali (Moers Music 1980). Really intense and inspired = playing. I have never come across these Rozie guys before. Just = wondering if anybody on the list know them and have any suggestions for = further listening - got this feeling I=B4ve been missing out on = something really cool Regards, Mads Ruby np: Contortions: Buy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Rozie question Date: 20 Oct 2000 14:31:41 CEST >From: "Mads Ruby" >One album really surprised me though: Afro Algonquin by Rick Rozie, Lee >Rozie and Rashied Ali (Moers Music 1980). Really intense and inspired >playing. I have never come across these Rozie guys before. Just wondering >if anybody on the list know them and have any suggestions for further >listening - got this feeling I´ve been missing out on something really cool I´ve seen this band at the time in some concerts - really amazing as the LP. Lee Rozie later played with the Decoding Society but I´ve never heard of him since 1981/82. Rick Rozie worked with Muhal and James Newton in the mid-eighties - but after that? Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a Rozie question) Date: 20 Oct 2000 14:44:24 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Mads" == Mads Ruby writes: Mads> One album really surprised me though: Afro Algonquin by Rick Mads> Rozie, Lee Rozie and Rashied Ali (Moers Music 1980). Really Mads> intense and inspired playing. I have never come across these Mads> Rozie guys before. Just wondering if anybody on the list Mads> know them and have any suggestions for further listening - Mads> got this feeling I´ve been missing out on something really Mads> cool I have three records with Rick Rozie, two which I like quite a bit: Barry Altschul _For Stu_ (Soul Note) and Chico Freeman _No Time Left_ (Black Saint), and one which I don't like very much: World Bass Violin Ensemble _BASSically Yours_ (Black Saint). --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: sex mob & viper house Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:12:17 -0400 Some one asked about a review one of the Sex Mob releases - I'd be = interested as well. Have recently caught them live in Burlington VT and = they were great. Sax/Bass/Drums only - is this the usual line up? They = remind me of the fantastic Vermont (Burlington I believe) based Viper = House, who have two excellent cds out (at least one of which is on the = Magic Hat label ! Yeah!) Not so sure about the rest of the list discussion but the reviews are = always keepers - nature of Zorn perhaps lends itself to many tangents, but = the reviews are usually right on! Happy listening Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: Rozie question Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:27:48 -0400 Here's a quick Rozie discography from the Lord cd-rom. any others? George Scala http://www.mindspring.com/~scala Donald Alexander Strachan and the Freedom Ensemble Soul Translation Triad 001 5/24/75 Lee Rozie Trio Afro Algonquin Moers Music 01078 5/27/80 Lee, Rick Saheb Sarbib and his Multinational Big Band Live at the Public Theatre CJR 1001 10/17/80 Lee Ronald Shannon Jackson & the Decoding Society Nasty Moers Music 01086 3/23/81 Lee Ronald Shannon Jackson & the Decoding Society Street Priest Moers Music 01096 6/13/81 Lee Saheb Sarbib and his Multinational Big Band Aisha CJR 1010 7/81 Lee Ronald Shannon Jackson & the Decoding Society Mandance Antilles 1008 6/82 Lee Ronald Shannon Jackson Taboo Virgin CDVE47 1990 Lee Allan Jaffe Soundscape Kromel 1001 10/1/78 Rick Barry Altschul Quartet For Stu Soul Note 1015 2/18/79 Rick Anthony Davis/James Newton Quartet Hidden Voices India Navigation 1041 3/79 Rick Chico Freeman Quartet No Time Left Black Saint 0036 6/8/79 Rick Anthony Davis Episteme Gramavision 8101 1981 Rick Anthony Davis Variations in Dream Time India Navigation 1056 1982 Rick Anthony Davis Hemispheres Gramavision 8303 7/83 Rick Muhal Richard Abrams Orchestra Rejoicing with the Light Black Saint 0071 1/8/83 Rick James Newton The African Flower Blue Note 85109 6/24/85 Rick James Newton Romance and Revolution Blue Note 85134 8/20/86 Rick Various Artists (Mixashawn and Word Out) Jazz in the Wilde University of Harvard CD (no #) 9/23/95 Rick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Rozie Brothers Date: 20 Oct 2000 08:57:22 -0500 Ah, Afro Algonquin is one of my favorite unheralded "free jazz" records. I find it truly wonderful every time I listen to it. The sax playing Rozie brother (Lee, I think) also played in Ronald Shannon Jackson's Decoding Scoeity in the early 80s and the bass playing one (Rick?) showed up on records here and there from the same era. I haven't seen or heard their names in a while. Anyone know what they are up to? Rob At 02:18 PM 10/20/00 +0200, Mads Ruby wrote: >One album really surprised me though: Afro Algonquin by Rick Rozie, Lee Rozie and Rashied Ali (Moers Music 1980). Really intense and inspired playing. I have never come across these Rozie guys before. Just wondering if anybody on the list know them and have any suggestions for further listening - got this feeling I=B4ve been missing out on something really= cool - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcizon@800.com Subject: RE: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but may Date: 20 Oct 2000 07:56:23 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03AA5.E9E9101E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The depth of my hopeless addiction has hit home three times (once this past weekend): 1.) When I "discovered" Brazilian pop music (Caetano, Gilberto, Gal, Mutantes, etc.) and ordered a total of 40 CDs from at least 10 different stores and catalogs. Half of them arrived on my doorstep in a single afternoon. Frightening. I'm lucky internet shopping wasn't too common at that time - as it'd have probably been much, much worse. (I still go to dustygroove weekly to see what they've gotten in recently.) 2.) A local record store went out of business and had a huge (40-60% off) sale on everything. This was about half a year ago. Anyway, I picked up the first Stax singles box ($60), the Mingus Atlantic box ($40), the Conrad Early Minimalism box ($15), and an additional 30 CDs, both used and new, for less than what that Stax box would've cost new. A true "High Fidelity" moment. 3.) Last weekend I went to Warehouse Music out in the 'burbs and came across 20 CDs in their $3.99 and under bin that I've been wanting. You know, stuff like Prince's "Dirty Mind" and "Indestructible Beat of Soweto, Vol. 3" that I've been putting off forever. Sure, it didn't cost me too much but I have a good month of music to wade through. As someone mentioned earlier, I don't EVEN want to go into what happened when I was introduced to the Downtown/Lower East Side scene. Oy. Murray ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03AA5.E9E9101E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but = maybe)

The depth of my hopeless addiction has hit home three = times (once this past weekend):

1.) When I "discovered" Brazilian pop music = (Caetano, Gilberto, Gal, Mutantes, etc.) and ordered a total of 40 CDs = from at least 10 different stores and catalogs. Half of them arrived on = my doorstep in a single afternoon. Frightening. I'm lucky internet = shopping wasn't too common at that time - as it'd have probably been = much, much worse. (I still go to dustygroove weekly to see what they've = gotten in recently.)

2.) A local record store went out of business and had = a huge (40-60% off) sale on everything. This was about half a year ago. = Anyway, I picked up the first Stax singles box ($60), the Mingus = Atlantic box ($40), the Conrad Early Minimalism box ($15), and an = additional 30 CDs, both used and new, for less than what that Stax box = would've cost new. A true "High Fidelity" moment.

3.) Last weekend I went to Warehouse Music out in the = 'burbs and came across 20 CDs in their $3.99 and under bin that I've = been wanting. You know, stuff like Prince's "Dirty Mind" and = "Indestructible Beat of Soweto, Vol. 3" that I've been = putting off forever. Sure, it didn't cost me too much but I have a good = month of music to wade through.

As someone mentioned earlier, I don't EVEN want to go = into what happened when I was introduced to the Downtown/Lower East = Side scene. Oy.

Murray

------_=_NextPart_001_01C03AA5.E9E9101E-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 20 Oct 2000 08:02:26 -0700 > > So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music > obsession was out of control? And did you care? > When Planet Music first opened in Memphis, and I went and bought 54 CDs. William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 20 Oct 2000 08:32:45 -0700 On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:28:48 EDT Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated Thu, 19 Oct 2000 8:12:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > "Alastair Wilson" writes: > > << So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music > obsession was out of control? And did you care? When I realized that I had more excitement to buy records than to listen to them, it was a clear sign that something wrong was going on... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but may be) Date: 20 Oct 2000 11:32:58 EDT Hi, my name is Tom and I'm a musicholic. "Hi Tom." Obsession has reared its ugly head in my life on a number occasions. First, as a child, when I got into heavy metal. Then later, as a teen, when I discovered Zappa, punk and jazz. I bought many many many albums and listened to them repeatedly. THEN I got into a crazy silly Tom Waits/Elvis Costello phase. This is where the trouble really started. It was innocent enough. I bought both Waits's and Elvis's entire official catalogue. I bought singles. I bought spin-off one-shot contributions to other artists' albums. I bought all of the albums Elvis produced (The Specials, The Pogues, Squeeze). Gradually, I put Waits on the back burner and concentrated full time on Costello. All of this was harmless, garden variety fanaticism. Then I discovered bootlegs. Picture a drug pusher approaching a 13 year old with a vial of crack and saying, "Here, try this. It'll make you feel like Superman." He tries, he's hooked. Life will never be the same. That's what happened when my friend Craig said, "I have an Elvis Costello bootleg you can have." It was "Elvis Went to Washington DC and Rockpile Didn't," a spastic performance from Elvis' adrenaline-fueled angry young man phase, 1978. My ascent (descent?) increased exponentially after that. I feverishly collected every show I could get my hands on. I catalogued, sorted, and organized my boots like an bank accountant. After my collection swelled to over 1000 hours of live Elvis Costello material I prayed and hoped for him to retire to Fiji, the one small spot of land on this planet where I didn't have an Elvis boot connection. Now I have an entire room in my home that stores my Elvis collection -- posters, CDs, albums, t-shirts, buttons, and stacks and stacks of cassettes all housed in suitcases. I had a similar, though less fanatical, episode for a couple of years involving the Beatles and Dylan. Both stopped at 100 or so boots. Dylan's official catalogue alone rivals Zorns, though. Discovering Zorn and the Downtown scene is yet another monkey on my back. He and his cohorts now occupy an ever-increasing corner of my Elvis room. The stacks get higher all the time, and my house seems smaller everyday. Is there a 12-step program? Have a nice day, Tom In a message dated 10/20/00 10:58:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mcizon@800.com writes: << The depth of my hopeless addiction has hit home three times (once this past weekend): 1.) When I "discovered" Brazilian pop music (Caetano, Gilberto, Gal, Mutantes, etc.) and ordered a total of 40 CDs from at least 10 different stores and catalogs. Half of them arrived on my doorstep in a single afternoon. Frightening. I'm lucky internet shopping wasn't too common at that time - as it'd have probably been much, much worse. (I still go to dustygroove weekly to see what they've gotten in recently.) 2.) A local record store went out of business and had a huge (40-60% off) sale on everything. This was about half a year ago. Anyway, I picked up the first Stax singles box ($60), the Mingus Atlantic box ($40), the Conrad Early Minimalism box ($15), and an additional 30 CDs, both used and new, for less than what that Stax box would've cost new. A true "High Fidelity" moment. 3.) Last weekend I went to Warehouse Music out in the 'burbs and came across 20 CDs in their $3.99 and under bin that I've been wanting. You know, stuff like Prince's "Dirty Mind" and "Indestructible Beat of Soweto, Vol. 3" that I've been putting off forever. Sure, it didn't cost me too much but I have a good month of music to wade through. As someone mentioned earlier, I don't EVEN want to go into what happened when I was introduced to the Downtown/Lower East Side scene. Oy. Murray >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?PROMO:=20G=FCnter=20M=FCller/L=EA=20Quan=20Ninh-L?= Date: 20 Oct 2000 11:44:37 EDT sorry for the promotional intrusion, and further apologies if you receive=20 more than one copy of this: I'm proud to announce the release of the latest CD on my label: G=FCnter M=FCller/L=EA Quan Ninh-La Voyelle Liquide (Erstwhile 010) G=FCnter M=FCller and L=EA Quan Ninh are both improvising percussionists who= have=20 worked increasingly with electronics over the past few years. M=FCller has=20 released numerous records on his groundbreaking For 4 Ears label, including=20 collaborations with Christian Marclay, Voice Crack, Otomo Yoshihide, and Eri= k=20 M. Two more recent records involve Taku Sugimoto, The World Turned Upside=20 Down (Erstwhile), which is a trio concert with Keith Rowe, and a duo release= d=20 this fall, I Am Happy If You Are Happy (For 4 Ears). Earlier this year,=20 M=FCller also released the gorgeous Direct Chamber (33revpermi), with Michel= =20 Doneda and Fabrice Charles. Ninh has worked extensively both in the improv=20 and in the contemporary classical genres. His improv side has probably best=20 been captured thus far by two superb trio projects on FMP, Burning Cloud=20 (w/Butch Morris and J.A.Deane) and Open Paper Tree (w/ Michel Doneda and Pau= l=20 Rogers), as well as by his solo tour de force, Ustensiles (For 4 Ears). As=20 for his classical side, he's a member of the H=EAlios Quartet, a percussion=20 ensemble which recently released a self-titled CD on Vand'ouevre, containing= =20 compositions by Ninh, Jean-Christophe Feldhandler, Vinko Globokar and Toru=20 Takemitsu. Ninh has also recorded John Cage's Ryoanji (Auvidis Montaigne), i= n=20 duo with Joelle Leandre. =20 M=FCller and Ninh first met and played together in 1988, and have occasional= ly=20 performed together since, most notably in the quartet Plugged in Zeit Reel=20 with Jim O'Rourke and J.A. Deane. In January of 2000, M=FCller and Ninh=20 traveled to CCAM in Vandoeuvre-les-Nancy, France and recorded four hours=20 worth of material, from which the 75 minutes contained on this CD has been=20 carefully selected. The title was inspired by a passage from L'Eau et les=20 R=EAves (Water and Dreams), a book by French philosopher Gaston Bachelard. T= he=20 two musicians demonstrate their seemingly limitless palettes, slipping back=20 and forth between percussion and electronics to create endlessly inventive=20 systems of sound. "The collaboration of these two percussive pioneers offers some of the most=20 inspired performances I have heard by either musician to date. While not=20 minimizing the quality of any of their other superb records, this seems to b= e=20 a culmination of their history. Muller and Ninh are percussionists of two=20 very different styles, and that is this record's strength- the sparse to the= =20 dense, the electronic to the acoustic . . . a wonderfully dynamic ride."-Tim= =20 Barnes personnel: G=FCnter M=FCller: selected drums, minidiscs & electronics L=EA Quan Ninh: surrounded bass drum & electronics track listing: 1. la voyelle a-4:28 2. la voyelle e-21:27 3. la voyelle i-13:00 4. la voyelle o-8:04 5. la voyelle u-8:10 6. la voyelle y-8:36 7. la voyelle liquide-11:16 more info available at the following web sites, or contact Erstwhile Records= =20 at ErstRecs@aol.com: http://www.erstwhilerecords.com http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mmuller.html http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mlequan.html http://ninh.fr.st/ http://www.for4ears.com all Erstwhile CDs can be purchased from numerous worldwide distributors, all= =20 of which are listed on my web site. also, all Erstwhile releases can be=20 purchased via direct mail order, details of which are also on my web site.=20 future releases from Erstwhile will include: 011: Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack-Bits, Bots & Signs (released mid-November) 013: Axel D=F6rner/Kevin Drumm 014: Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow 015: Phil Durrant/Thomas Lehn/Radu Malfatti 016: Toshimaru Nakamura/Sachiko M. also available now: 001-VHF-Extracts 002-Haunted House-Up In Flames 003-Earl Howard/Denman Maroney-Fire Song 004-2-Thomas Lehn/Gerry Hemingway-Tom & Gerry (double CD) 005-Keith Rowe/G=FCnter M=FCller/Taku Sugimoto-The World Turned Upside Down 006-Kevin Drumm/Martin T=E9treault-Particles and Smears 007-John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs 008-Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee 009-Dean Roberts/Werner Dafeldecker-Aluminium 012-Thomas Lehn/Marcus Schmickler-Bart thanks for reading. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: Sex Mob and Krauss Versus Zorn(Also GodSpeed,Zorn/Eye) Date: 20 Oct 2000 12:07:49 EDT In a message dated 10/20/00 2:24:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, arock01@postoffice.csu.edu.au writes: << Hi Zorn-listers, Would anyone who has heard Sex Mob's "Din of Inequity" care to provide a brief review? Also how does the altoist Briggan Krauss compare with Zorn in relation to playing style and ability? Does any zorn-lister have an opinion regarding who they consider to be the best altoist in NYC at present? Thanks again, Adam >> Tim Berne of course. Do you really have to ask? ;) I think Krauss can be really good, though I'm not fond of Sexmob. I think the idea of making fun or trashing terrible pop songs is kind of dumb. However I think it is Bernstein's project, so blame him. The best context for Krauss is Babkas or maybe Pigpen. Godspeed You Black Emperor is coming to town in a couple of weeks with Mecca Normal. What do you guys think of these bands? The short sound samples I've heard weren't enough to pass judgement. I don't want to find out they were fantastic after I miss the show. On the compulsive issue, wasn't there supposed to be a 100 cd set of Zorn with Eye? Was this ever released? If so, who bought this puppy? Cheers, John Threadgould NP: Breuker's Metropolis(not for the movie) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: what was i thinking? (yeah, declan boot!) Date: 20 Oct 2000 12:10:36 -0500 Hi, Samerivertwice, who confessed, "It was "Elvis Went to Washington DC and Rockpile Didn't," a spastic performance from Elvis' adrenaline-fueled angry young man phase, 1978." what a way to start! great slabba vinyl, that. i went through a similiar, though less thorough, plunge into new wave collection. told my mom it was a short to drive from rosemont, ill., to evanston once in order to get to vintage vinyl when i was 15. (she had already driven me and my friends 3.5 hours to get to a david bowie concert, why not traipse across all of greater chicago to look for talking heads bootlegs?) the fanaticism fell off somewhat with the end of the vinyl era and the interest of the less fetishworthy, more expensive cds. until, that is, i made it to nyc, where cds grow on trees. now i have a peculiar penchant for things i've never heard of, british electronica, postpunk from florida, whatever piece of something someone tossed into the budget bin. as a result, i don't really know what's in my collection. i stumble across 'cosmic giggle factory' and go, oh yeah, this was interesting, and enjoy a spin of at least a song or two. i'll discover that there's a cd in the never-been-shelved section by someone i have another disc of on the racks. i used to have a rule that i couldn't buy a new cd unless i'd listened to the last ones i picked up. HA! i totally understand the fella with the 'never heard' section. i was speaking to a guy at a chadbourne show who was saying if he started now and did nothing but listen to cds, he'd die before he got through his collection. i'm still young enough, i'm pretty sure, but it grows nearer geometrically... kg np: kocani orkestar - l'orient est rouge (crazy pounding horns, turkish/ bulgarian rhythms, really glad i bought it, hope i listen to it again after october's over. hey, i'm not proud, it's a compulsion, but i love cds and i love the store so keep your cakehole shut if you're one-a those who thinks expansive collections is somehow bad for society. you probably think it's wrong to smash guitars onstage, too!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: douglas' a thousand evenings Date: 20 Oct 2000 11:17:31 -0500 (CDT) sombody asked for some comments on the new dave douglas offering. here's my 2 cents: i've listened to it about 4 or 5 times now. it lacks the lyrical quality that made the first charms of the night sky so nice to my ears. after 5 listenings, the only song to which i can recall the melody is 'goldfinger', and even that was hard to recognize at first. this is in stark contrast to the first charms disc, where after the first listening the title track was burned into my brain, and others were soon to follow. close attention rewards the listener, however. i particularly like the solo klucevsek piece. this disc will no doubt stay in rotation because (1) i like the instrumentation and mood, and (2) i'm hoping it will reward repeated hearings, although (3) it hasn't grabbed me like the first album. cheers, whit 'who thinks the track after goldfinger sounds like jethro tull for some unknown reason' schonbein - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: See Han Bennink In Ventura Tonight Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:29:36 -0700 [I don't make a dime from this series. Promoting Han not myself.] Ventura New Music Concert Series The Legendary HAN BENNINK Solo Percussion October 20, 2000 Ventura City Hall, Ventura California 501 Poli Street 8 PM $10 Admission NO ADVANCE TICKET SALES. Tickets at the door only. Opening will be Jeff Kaiser, Trumpet and Electronics with Rich West, percussion For Directions: http://www.mapblast.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: what was i thinking? Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:01:45 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > kurt_gottschalk@scni.com > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:11 AM > i used to have a rule that i couldn't buy a new cd unless i'd > listened to the > last ones i picked up. HA! i totally understand the fella with > the 'never heard' > section. My "never heard" section is growing exponentially as well. To deal with that, I have some rules: new, shrinkwrapped CDs go to the top of the pile. However, if it's a used copy of a CD that just came out in the last month or so, that goes to the top of the pile as well. Every first of the month I go through the "never heard" section and select the stuff that I really want to hear, and put those on top of the pile. I usually get to the end of the month without hearing all that month's selections, so those get placed under the new month's selections. This all started in high school, when I was young and stupid. Somehow I got it into my head that I had to own a copy of every Number One album on Casey Kasem's American Top 40 countdown. This was, of course, completely unfeasible on a high school allowance -- but I tried, anyway, and now I have a pile of moldy Duran Duran tapes, and much more, to show for it. When I got started on Zorn and Co. I was a lowly grad student and didn't have much money at all to spend. Now I'm actually employed, and I still don't have very much money to spend, but Zorn (indirectly, of course) regularly takes a bite out of my paycheck. I find that I tend to get obsessive about musicians-with-large-discographies-on-import-labels. Those Avant pressings are pretty expensive. And I won't go into detail about my Current 93 / Keiji Haino obsessions as well. (I'm just glad I'm not a Laswell completist.) Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:14:30 -0700 > Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:32:45 -0700 > From: "Patrice L. Roussel" > Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (again no obvious Zorn content...but maybe) > > > << So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music > > obsession was out of control? And did you care? > > When I realized that I had more excitement to buy records than to listen to > them, it was a clear sign that something wrong was going on... > > Patrice. I know that feeling. I've had too many incidents lately where I go to buy a disc and the person in the store asks me a question about something I had bought a few weeks earlier (we have similar tastes) -- and I can't answer it because I haven't heard more than 10 minutes of it on the drive home from the store. Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Prévost pronunciation Date: 20 Oct 2000 13:35:21 -0400 (EDT) No, it's not. It's Pree-voh (the name is originally French Huguenot) Ken Waxman --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > I was saying priVOST this past weekend, but I'm not > positive that's correct. > > Jon > www.erstwhilerecords.com _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Pr=E9vost_pronunciation?= Date: 20 Oct 2000 20:00:06 +0200 At 13:35 20/10/00 -0400, Ken Waxman wrote: >No, it's not. > >It's Pree-voh (the name is originally French >Huguenot) > >Ken Waxman ------ So, we all agree that the end is "-oh", but I'm curious why you pronounce "Pr=E9-" as "Pree"... do you mean the same "ee" as in "deep" for example? That wouldn't be usual for a french "=E9"... From an online french pronounciation lesson for english speakers, here is what I found: "=E9 is pronounced as a long a. Examples: donn=E9 /dun nay/, =E9cu /ay kY/= " Well... it's an approximation, but I think It's a better approximation than "ee". So, I'm sorry, I insist, it's "Pray-voh" (with a french "r" also, please) BTW, how do you pronounce "Huguenot" ? =20 ;-) Pascal, the french guy. (n.p. Beno=EEt Delbecq 5, "Pursuit" -Songlines-, and enjoying it) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=E9vost?= pronunciation Date: 20 Oct 2000 12:37:40 -0500 Pascal Cortes wrote: > > BTW, how do you pronounce "Huguenot" ? Are you trying to embarrass us? :-) -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: musicians on film Date: 20 Oct 2000 20:01:59 GMT I'm afraid that my collection of avant musicians on film is rather spare. I only have the Vision Festival performance of a couple of years ago and the three Sun Ra tapes. With the holidays fast approaching, I thought I'd pick up some more. I've seen that there's a Cecil Taylor VHS and one of the Art Ensemble of Chicago available, so I think I'll add those. Does anyone know of others that are readily available and worthy of commendation? Do you folks buy such tapes? (I suppose for many there isn't much point with live gigs always available--NYC envy once more). Oh and I just got a list from DMG which said that a new Elliott Sharp CD was on hold at Knit Works because of KF's financial problems. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: Re: douglas' a thousand evenings Date: 20 Oct 2000 16:11:06 -0400 I'm still absorbing "A Thousand Evenings," but it seems quite good so far. "The Branches" is especially good. I'm not as sure about the Jaki Byard tribute yet. But in any case, Mark Feldman is fabulous throughout. He sounds like he's going to explode... Alan Lankin lankina@att.net --- Jazzmatazz http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz Upcoming CDs listings http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/upcomingcds.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Rozie question Date: 20 Oct 2000 16:45:20 -0500 Rick Rozie is on the faculty at the Hartt School of Music at the University of Hartford in Connecticut. See http://www.hartford.edu/hartt/hartt/www/faculty/musicfac/rozie_e.html (which doesn't indicate whether he's playing any music of his own lately). Lee Rozie is also based in Hartford. He's gone heavily into the Native American heritage exploration, performing under the name Mixashawn. Last time I saw him was at the Knitting Factory for a Coltrane birthday concert with Ravi Coltrane and Rashied Ali, must have been four years ago. You can see http://www.cslnet.ctstateu.edu/cca/directry/pahmixas.htm for more information and a burly photo. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Francisco Lopez, 'Untitled #74' (Table of the Elements) ... and thanks to those who pointed me towards the Zornlist archives yesterday... it was the Francisco Lopez discussion from two weeks ago I'd been looking for, and I found it, thanks... doesn't mean I've made my mind up about Lopez's work, though... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Odp: K.C. Date: 20 Oct 2000 16:56:27 -0500 Marcin Gokieli wrote: > > np. King Crimson: Red (24 bit remaster... ooh...) > > Do the remasters really sound better then the earlier releases? Sorry for > asking that here, but puting such a question on ET (crimso list) would cause > a two-months debate with all possible options... In a word: yes. To elaborate: I've bought the first four remasters, and they all sound dramatically better than the previous versions (and this is, what, my third time buying this catalog on CD?). I don't have a golden ear and I don't have spectacular equipment, and I notice a distinct difference. It's espceially notable to me on 'In the Court of the Crimson King,' from which veils of dinge are lifted. But really, all four are improvements. I hope to get the Larks'/Starless/Red trilogy soon, but I just dropped way too much money on a pair of tickets to see the current lineup next month. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Francisco Lopez, 'Untitled #74' (Table of the Elements) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Berman" Subject: Re: Rozie question Date: 20 Oct 2000 17:21:54 -0400 > Lee Rozie is also based in Hartford. He's gone heavily into the = Native > American heritage exploration, performing under the name Mixashawn. > = - >=20 Wow, so that's who that is. I picked up a "Mixashawn & Word, Out..." = (indian ruins records '93) several years ago real cheap at a Smithsonian = cut out cd bin here in DC. didn't know who it was but, although it = looked kinda new agey, (which it kinda was at parts..there was even a = *recommended for Air Play New Age* star for one cut), it seemed strange = enough to pick up as it had a picture of him playing bir 'm bau with a = soprano sax behind him. =20 well the cd was definitely a dud though hinted at being kind of out = there in parts, but its kind of amazing to find out that Mixashawn was = not a nobody from Minniapolis. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philippe Dupuis Subject: GODSPEED Date: 20 Oct 2000 19:07:04 +0000 hello, -Godspeed You Black Emperor is coming to town in a couple of -weeks with Mecca Normal. What do you guys think of these bands? i saw them play in montreal about a year ago and while i enjoyed the night, i wasn't that taken with them. labradford was there and i thought that these three guys filled the sonic landscape of the night better then the 10 or so musicians that make up godspeed. they have such a massive sound, and i felt that they where going through certain motions (bringing up the volume and intensity of the pieces) in a way that i felt was mechanical and served only to tense me up ... i'm not sure if this is making any sense at all. maybe i can relate it to horror films, the way that they sometimes surprise, or shock instead of scare and terrify. the old hitch take on anyone can bring up the volume and momentarily shock you, but it takes skill to build up suspense. not that they have this terrible way to make people jump in their seats or anything ... but i remember feeling a bit shaken afterwards. maybe it's just me. i do remember hearing a piece by A SILVER MOUNT ZION a while back and really thinking it was good. more balanced. i don't know what the tune was called or what the album is called ... does anyone have it - is it any good? (i think i would buy it) and i did just recently re-read the WIRE article on GODSPEED and really enjoyed what the guitarist (Efrim i think) had to say. -The short sound samples I've heard weren't enough to pass -judgment. I don't want to find out they were fantastic after -I miss the show. well, you're talking to a guy here that doesn't have the privilege to live in an area that has good live music. only local bands that are terribly bad. so, YES go see them!!! martin dupuis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Prévost pronunciation Date: 20 Oct 2000 18:22:58 -0400 (EDT) OK, I'll bite: Hugh-ge-know C'est correct Pascal? Ken Waxman --- Jim Flannery wrote: > Pascal Cortes wrote: > > > > BTW, how do you pronounce "Huguenot" ? > > Are you trying to embarrass us? :-) _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re:_Prévost_pronunciation Date: 20 Oct 2000 18:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Mais Pascal: Mon pronounciation est que j'ai appris a l'ecole a Quebec. Est-ce qu'il est possible que le francais international avait un pronounciation different que les Quebecois. Ken Waxman (who probably makes as little sense in French as English) --- Pascal Cortes wrote: > At 13:35 20/10/00 -0400, Ken Waxman wrote: > >No, it's not. > > > >It's Pree-voh (the name is originally French > >Huguenot) > > > >Ken Waxman > ------ > So, we all agree that the end is "-oh", but I'm > curious why you pronounce > "Pré-" as "Pree"... do you mean the same "ee" as in > "deep" for example? > That wouldn't be usual for a french "é"... > From an online french pronounciation lesson for > english speakers, here is > what I found: > "é is pronounced as a long a. Examples: donné /dun > nay/, écu /ay kY/ " > > Well... it's an approximation, but I think It's a > better approximation than > "ee". > So, I'm sorry, I insist, it's "Pray-voh" (with a > french "r" also, please) > > BTW, how do you pronounce "Huguenot" ? > ;-) _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Odds & Sods Date: 20 Oct 2000 16:06:08 -0700 'Waxman' is pronounced "wakes-mahn" If you believe "...this Crimson does not include Bruford & Levin, but still rules!!", I have some land in Arizona I'll sell you cheap. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Odds & Sods Date: 20 Oct 2000 19:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Nope, it's pronounced exactly as it looks. Or if you prefer French it's Homme de Cire KW --- s~Z wrote: > 'Waxman' is pronounced "wakes-mahn" _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: GODSPEED Date: 20 Oct 2000 20:25:59 -0400 Hello, >-Godspeed You Black Emperor is coming to town in a couple of >-weeks with Mecca Normal. What do you guys think of these bands? I must confess I have never heard about Mecca Normal, but I am probably the biggest godspeed you black emperor! on this list... So, I would say go and enjoy one of the best live bands! But, I am not the most objective person for this... I think they evolved since last year. They are probably more tight then they were during their last North American tour (Fall 99). At least they sound like they are. They also have two new songs ("12-28-99" and "Tazer Floyd") that are excellent. While it remains in their kind of music, it is different than their previous compositions. I would also suggest their latest album _Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven_. Very good with some interesting tape loops, drones, etc. >i do remember hearing a piece by A SILVER MOUNT ZION a while >back and really thinking it was good. more balanced. i don't know >what the tune was called or what the album is called ... does anyone >have it - is it any good? (i think i would buy it) The A Silver Mt Zion album is called _He Has Left Us Alone But Shafts Of Light Sometimes Grace the Croner of Our Rooms..._. It is one of my favorite album since its release last March. It can take time to get used to it, but there are some wonderful moments. And I love this title "the world is sickSICK; (so kiss me quick)"... The band consists of Thierry on bass, Sophie on violon and Efrim on piano/tape loops/all-the-rest (all three members of gybe!). They also have some guest musicians like Sam Shalabi and Aidan (drummer of gybe!). Bonne fin de soiree, Mathieu (qui parle evidemment francais!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Patton's "Pranzo Oltranzista" Date: 21 Oct 2000 12:15:26 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C03B58.9855E220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Zorn-listers, Anyone care to offer their impressions regarding Mike Patton's "Pranzo = Oltranzista"? I purchased the cd at the beginning of this year and i'm = still uncertain how I feel about it. Thanks, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C03B58.9855E220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Zorn-listers,
 
Anyone care to offer their impressions regarding Mike Patton's = "Pranzo=20 Oltranzista"? I purchased the cd at the beginning of this year and i'm = still=20 uncertain how I feel about it.
 
Thanks,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C03B58.9855E220-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Odds & Sods Date: 20 Oct 2000 20:48:52 -0400 On Fri, Oct 20, 2000 at 04:06:08PM -0700, s~Z wrote: > If you believe "...this Crimson does not include Bruford & Levin, but still > rules!!", I have some land in Arizona I'll sell you cheap. Why would one doubt that Bruford and Levin aren't currently in the band? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Odds & Sods Date: 20 Oct 2000 21:58:37 -0400 At 08:48 PM 10/20/00 -0400, Joseph Zitt wrote: > >Why would one doubt that Bruford and Levin aren't currently in the band? Perhaps because the newest KC album only includes Fripp, Mastelotto, Gunn & Belew? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Odds & Sods Date: 20 Oct 2000 21:16:49 -0400 On Fri, Oct 20, 2000 at 09:58:37PM -0400, Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > At 08:48 PM 10/20/00 -0400, Joseph Zitt wrote: > > > >Why would one doubt that Bruford and Levin aren't currently in the band? > > Perhaps because the newest KC album only includes Fripp, Mastelotto, Gunn & > Belew? Yes, and therefore? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Odds & Sods Date: 20 Oct 2000 22:14:49 -0400 At 09:16 PM 10/20/00 -0400, Joseph Zitt wrote: >> > >> >Why would one doubt that Bruford and Levin aren't currently in the band? >> >> Perhaps because the newest KC album only includes Fripp, Mastelotto, Gunn & >> Belew? > >Yes, and therefore? Maybe I should ask why individuals who don't play, record, tour, or share common interests (since Bruford won't play the kind of percussion Fripp wants) with the band are in the band? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Odds & Sods Date: 20 Oct 2000 22:00:14 -0400 On Fri, Oct 20, 2000 at 10:14:49PM -0400, Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > At 09:16 PM 10/20/00 -0400, Joseph Zitt wrote: > >> > > >> >Why would one doubt that Bruford and Levin aren't currently in the band? > >> > >> Perhaps because the newest KC album only includes Fripp, Mastelotto, Gunn & > >> Belew? > > > >Yes, and therefore? > > Maybe I should ask why individuals who don't play, record, tour, or share > common interests (since Bruford won't play the kind of percussion Fripp > wants) with the band are in the band? Why would you say that they're in the band? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: New Potlatch releases Date: 21 Oct 2000 09:50:40 +0200 (CEST) Some of you already know it, but I just want to let you know about new releases on Potlatch : - "Billabong" by Denman MARONEY (hyperpiano) and Hans TAMMEN (endangered guitar). Recorded in NYC in 1999. (Potlatch 100) - "Dark Rags" by Evan PARKER (tenor sax) and Keith ROWE (guitar) recorded live on 12/31/1999 and 01/01/2000 in Nantes (France). (Potlatch 200) More details about mail order and distribution on website. http://www.potlatch.digiweb.fr Jacques Oger potlatch@worldnet.fr - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: What was I thinking? Date: 21 Oct 2000 11:19:16 GMT Hey, >So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music >obsession was out of control? And did you care? I ordered the Zorn/Eye 100 CD box and started putting up a new shelf, only for that box. I remember trying to explain a friend exactly why I was doing this, and it made me think again... "Don't you get it?? I MUST have 100 CDs of two guys screaming and honking a saxophone!" But naturally, when I stopped thinking about it, I didn't care... ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Prévost pronunciation Date: 21 Oct 2000 11:24:06 GMT At 13:35 20/10/00 -0400, Ken Waxman wrote: >No, it's not. > >It's Pree-voh (the name is originally French Huguenot) > >Ken Waxman I pronounce it "Ree-bo" ;-) ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Patton's "Pranzo Oltranzista" Date: 21 Oct 2000 11:29:47 GMT >Anyone care to offer their impressions regarding Mike Patton's "Pranzo >Oltranzista"? It's good. Hardly no vocals. Ribot is amazing. ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mads Ruby" Subject: Rozie Date: 21 Oct 2000 14:24:36 +0200 Gee, I knew this list was the place to ask. Thanks for the info, that = was a great help... now I=B4ll just have to start looking for the = records. Glad I=B4m not the only one who treasures the Afro Algonquin = album. Cheers, Mads np: Sun Ra: New Steps - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Carl Stone Date: 21 Oct 2000 10:07:15 -0400 Caught Carl Stone at Roulette (NYC) the other night. His "Mom's" on New Albion has been a major favorite of mine for a number of years and I've also enjoyed his collaboration with Otomo and his album on em:t, "Nyala". However, more recent recorded work of his I'd found wanting, especially "Exusiai", which really tested my patience, so I went in to the show somewhat dubiously. He performed on Powerbook more or less without interruption aside from a technical glitch or two. The first 20 or so minutes sounded like a pastiche of Terry Riley circa "Shri Camel", the next 10 a secondhand plunderphonic exhibition. The sonic quality itself was shallow and obvious enough that I thought perhaps he might have been intentionally "cheapening" the sound for some reason; I was probably giving him too much credit. A woman in the audience had brought an infant who began crying as soon as the concert started; thus far into the show, I preferred the baby. Glitch taken care of, Stone began an overlapping series of descending, whooshing patterns that were fairly attractive for a minute or two, but gradually morphed into more pastel washes. I found myself regretting one aspect of Powerbook composers: they rarely get physically tired enough to take a break. Finally, in the last 6 or 7 minutes, using what I'm fairly convinced were warped samples from the concluding, instrumental portion of "Axis: Bold as Love", Stone built a thick, complex matrix of sound with some meat on the bone. This was the Stone I'd known and loved. I could've easily listened to a whole show like this. Any other thoughts on Stone's work, especially recent stuff? Brian Olewnick (happy with himself that he'd always said "pray-voh" but still finding himself pronouncing AMM as a single word) NP: Lehn/Schmickler - BART. Very fine. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Odds & Sods Date: 21 Oct 2000 07:20:45 -0700 Why would one doubt that Bruford and Levin aren't currently in the band? From latest DMG email: KING CRIMSON!!!! Returns to NYC on Sunday & Monday November 12th & 13th at the Supper Club at 8pm - this Crimson does not include Bruford & Levin, but still rules!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: What was I thinking? Date: 21 Oct 2000 13:00:13 -0400 I have not been following this thread, so maybe this is a stupid question, but is there REALLY a "zorn/eye 100 CD box" set? where do you get it? is there a URL to read about it? how much does it cost? a thousand dollars? > From: "Arthur Gadney" > Subject: Re: What was I thinking? > > I ordered the Zorn/Eye 100 CD box and started putting up a new shelf, only > for that box. I remember trying to explain a friend exactly why I was doing > this, and it made me think again... "Don't you get it?? I MUST have 100 CDs > of two guys screaming and honking a saxophone!" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Odds & Sods Date: 21 Oct 2000 13:22:30 -0400 On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 07:20:45AM -0700, s~Z wrote: > Why would one doubt that Bruford and Levin aren't currently in the band? > > >From latest DMG email: > > KING CRIMSON!!!! Returns to NYC on Sunday & Monday November > 12th & 13th at the Supper Club at 8pm - this Crimson does not > include Bruford & Levin, but still rules!! Exactly. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: Sex Mob and Krauss Versus Zorn Date: 20 Oct 2000 17:20:25 +0200 Adam> Would anyone who has heard Sex Mob's "Din of Inequity" care to provide a brief review? Also how does the altoist Briggan Krauss compare with Zorn in relation to playing style and ability? Does Adam> any zorn-lister have an opinion regarding who they consider to be the best altoist in NYC at present? Briggan Krauss has one recording DESCENDING TO END. But you nearly can't identify any saxophone sounds. Krauss used samples of his playing, electronical sound (???) and created the music out of it. Well, I don't know who is the best altoist in NY, but Krauss is one of them. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Sex Mob and Krauss Versus Zorn Date: 21 Oct 2000 11:34:09 -0700 At 5:20 PM 10/20/00, Tim Blechmann wrote: >Adam> Would anyone who has heard Sex Mob's "Din of Inequity" care to >provide a brief review? Also how does the altoist Briggan Krauss compare >with Zorn in relation to playing style and ability? Does >Adam> any zorn-lister have an opinion regarding who they consider to be >the best altoist in NYC at present? Doesn't Ornette still live in NYC? And basically, isn't that a kind of stupid question? This isn't the WWF after all. > >Briggan Krauss has one recording DESCENDING TO END. But you nearly >can't identify any saxophone sounds. Krauss used samples of his >playing, electronical sound (???) and created the music out of it. Krauss also has a great CD on Knitting Factory called 300, with Wayne Horvitz and Kenny Wolleson. It alternates some very beautiful sax/piano duets with some very extreme free-improv. Had an interesting conversation about this disc with Horvitz, who said that it had been passed over by all of the new "ecstatic jazz/free jazz/whatever" labels in NYC because he plays electronic keyboards on it. > >Well, I don't know who is the best altoist in NY, but Krauss is one of >them. > Agreed. I used to see him with Pigpen and felt he had chops that exceeded his ideas, but what I've heard recently has been excellent. I saw him with Sex Mob, which I expected to be annoying, and enjoyed it very much. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re[2]: Sex Mob and Krauss Versus Zorn Date: 21 Oct 2000 21:04:14 +0200 Dave> Krauss also has a great CD on Knitting Factory called 300, with Wayne Dave> Horvitz and Kenny Wolleson. It alternates some very beautiful sax/piano Dave> duets with some very extreme free-improv. Had an interesting conversation Dave> about this disc with Horvitz, who said that it had been passed over by all Dave> of the new "ecstatic jazz/free jazz/whatever" labels in NYC because he Dave> plays electronic keyboards on it. >> >>Well, I don't know who is the best altoist in NY, but Krauss is one of >>them. >> Dave> Agreed. I used to see him with Pigpen and felt he had chops that exceeded Dave> his ideas, but what I've heard recently has been excellent. I saw him with Dave> Sex Mob, which I expected to be annoying, and enjoyed it very much. I haven't heard 300 jet, because it is hard to get in Germany. But I had been at a duet concert Krauss/Horvitz last year. I liked it very much. Much more that the Pigpen recording Miss Ann. It is not bad, but it doesn't reach the quality of this concert. When I heard Sex Mob this year, was a bit disappointed because I expected that Krauss would play much more, but he played just a few soli compared to Steven Bernstein. But I don't know their CDs yet. (Same problem like 300) PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Sidsel Endreson (no Zorn content, but read it, it's interesting!) Date: 21 Oct 2000 15:09:37 -0500 Alastair Wilson wrote: > Last Friday I went to Ronnie Scotts for the first time ever, to see Sidsel > Endreson, a breathtaking Norwegian singer. She has two albums on ECM (which > I have), the last of which came out in 1994, featuring (amongst others) > Django Bates and Nils Potter Molvaer. > > [snippity snip] does anyone have any > further info on Sidsel, especially what on earth she's been doing these last > six years? I've done all sorts of searches on the internet > but have come up with nothing. Aside from the answers already provided by Marius Ergo, I'd like to take one small opportunity to point out one more very nice session including Sidsel, who I'll agree is a very special talent. Dallas-based trumpeter/composer/world explorer Dennis Gonzalez released an album in 1993 on the Polish Gowi label titled 'Welcome to Us,' which is essentially Dennis in the lead and writing for Sidsel's ECM bandmates. A haunting, lovely, magical experience in the same vein as her ECM stuff but with distinctive twists provided by Gonzalez, it was subsequently reissued in 1996 on Koch Jazz, the only record so far on which you can see me listed as "executive producer" (which simply means I was the one who badgered Koch into licensing the disc in the first place). 'Welcome to Us' features Gonzalez, Endresen, Molvaer, Bugge Wesseltoft (piano, synth), Terje Gewelt (bass), and Pal Thowsen (drums). It's on Gowi CDG 10 and Koch Jazz 3-7823-2. Self-absorbed plug finished. You can find several other citings of Sidsel (including some of the discs Marius mentioned) if you use the web search engine www.google.com which is probably the best one out there... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ruth Cameron, "Happiness Is a Thing Called Joe," 'Roadhouse' (Verve) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Crimson Rulership Date: 21 Oct 2000 12:15:52 -0700 The doubt was not about whether or not they were or were not in the band. It was about whether such a band could "still rule." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Crimson Rulership Date: 21 Oct 2000 14:42:54 -0400 On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 12:15:52PM -0700, s~Z wrote: > The doubt was not about whether or not they were or were not in the band. > > It was about whether such a band could "still rule." Listening to the CD (as I have several times a week since its release): Yes, they can. In fact, I prefer it to the Double Trio. There's room to hear each of the stellar players, and the songwriting is better integrated than in the previous group. Eagerly looking forward to seeing them in DC... -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 21 Oct 2000 15:38:22 -0500 Bill Ashline wrote: > I'm afraid that my collection of avant musicians on film is rather spare. I > only have the Vision Festival performance of a couple of years ago and the > three Sun Ra tapes. With the holidays fast approaching, I thought I'd pick > up some more. I've seen that there's a Cecil Taylor VHS and one of the Art > Ensemble of Chicago available, so I think I'll add those. Does anyone know > of others that are readily available and worthy of commendation? In addition to the Vision Festival tape you mention, there's a pro-shot film called 'Rising Tones Cross,' which was made by German filmmaker Ebaa Jahn in 1984. It's a documentation of the Sound Unity Festival, a precursor to the Vision Festival produced by William Parker, Patricia Nicholson and Peter Kowald. It includes lots of great footage of Kowald, Parker, Don Cherry, Denis Charles, Billy Bang, Charles Tyler, Jemeel Moondoc, and an impressive huge band led by Peter Brotzmann that includes a terrifying frontline of Moondoc, David S. Ware, Charles Gayle, Frank Wright, Roy Campbell, Irene Schweitzer and others. For historical contrast there's also a very brief snippet of John Zorn playing his game calls with Wayne Horvitz in a tiny cafe. I think it's pretty amazing. You can order it via the net at http://members.aol.com/FilmPals/links.htm (I think Cadence may also carry it). I wrote about the film in Jazziz in July 1999, the text of which is reprinted on the film maker's website at http://members.aol.com/FilmPals/JAZZIZ.htm The two tapes you cite, Cecil Taylor's 'Burning Poles' (Mystic Fire 1991, with William Parker, Tony Oxley and Henry Martinez) and the Art Ensemble of Chicago 'Live from the Jazz Showcase' (Rhapsody 1981, Mitchell, Jarman, Bowie, Favors, Moye) are both highly recommended. Regarding others, I've seen a video of the Ornette Coleman Trio (Izenson and Moffett) but have never had a chance to view it. Likewise, Shirley Clark's late-'80s Ornette documentary 'Made in America' may still be available somewhere. And I really like the series of Incus videos Derek Bailey has made available: 'Will' (1995, with tap dancer Will Gaines), 'Mountain Stage' (1993, with Min Tanaka), 'Company in Japan' (1993, with Koichi Makigami, Motoharu Yoshizawa, and many others, edited in a way that is either described as "quirky" or "frustrating"), and especially 'Gig' (1992, with John Stevens). There's a fifth Incus video by Milo Fine and a dancer, but this I've not seen. And I've heard that Anthony Braxton is featured on at least some of the video available from the Woodstock Creative Music Workshop. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ruth Cameron, "Something Cool," 'Roadhouse' (Verve) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: NYC concert: Dresser/Howard/Kimura/Ulrich Date: 21 Oct 2000 15:55:21 EDT Earl Howard wanted me to pass on the following concert announcement, for those who won't be watching game 5 of the Subway Series at the time: next Thursday, October 26, at the Old Office in the Knitting Factory, the quartet of: Mark Dresser-bass Earl Howard-sax, electronics Mari Kimura-violin Tomas Ulrich-cello sets at 8 and 9:30, $10 Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 16:06:47 -0500 Alastair Wilson wrote: > So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music > obsession was out of control? When I tried to order the supposedly-impending 10 CD Cecil Taylor live boxset from FMR Records a month ago, despite impending "between employment situations" status? (there was never any response from the label - don't know what's up there...) When I cut a deal with John Shiurba to purchase all of the Limited Sedition CD-Rs I don't yet have, despite current "between employment situations" status? Of course, both of those incidents happened within the last month. Other than that, I actually have few such stories to share... well, there was the time I bought the 14 Incus CDs I didn't yet own from Karen Brookman all in one pop at a Derek Bailey show, ostensibly to "save money" (her prices were better). New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I used to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland actually do this? What label(s)? And why? I'll start: I buy everything on Incus, regardless of who it is, because I love Derek Bailey and the free improv he promulgates. I also have everything on Avant and probably 75% of everything on Tzadik, because I know I can usually count on them being provocative and probably worthwhile in some way. And when it first started, I was trying to buy everything on hatOLOGY, but while aesthetic judgement does enter the picture, in this case it was more a mercenary line of thought, since they are all supposedly limited editions. I've since let that drop, but still buy a lot of their things even when I don't know the artist in question. And back in college I used to buy everything on Nonesuch, but that's a long time ago, and I wouldn't do that now even if I could. Thoughts? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ruth Cameron, "Willow Weep for Me," 'Roadhouse' (Verve) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert van Heumen" Subject: Re: Metropolis(Non-Zorn related) Date: 21 Oct 2000 23:19:49 +0200 jeff mills, very recently... ..r.o.b.e.r.t.v.a.n.h.e.u.m.e.n. ..h.t.t.p.:././.h.a.r.d.h.a.t.a.r.e.a...c.o.m. http://hardhatarea.com ..r.e.c.o.m.m.e.n.d.e.d.m.u.s.i.c.a.n.d.n.o.n.m.u.s.i.c. .....f.o.e.h.n..h.i.d.d.e.n.c.i.n.e.m.a.s.o.u.n.d.t.r.a.c.k......c.i.n.e.m. a.t.i.c..m.u.s.i.c..s.o.u.n.d..n.o.i.r. .....v./.a..b.e.a.t.a.t.c.i.n.e.c.i.t.t.a.v.o.l.u.m.e.1......r.a.u.n.c.h.y. e.r.o.t.i.c..i.t.a.l.i.a.n..f.i.l.m.m.u.s.i.c. .....s.u.p.e.r._.c.o.l.l.i.d.e.r..h.e.a.d.o.n......t.e.c.h.n.o.f.u.n.k. .....e.l.e.c.t.r.o.n.i.c.e.y.e..n.e.u.r.o.m.e.t.r.i.k......s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e. c.h.n.o. .....r.i.c.h.a.r.d.h.k.i.r.k..a.g.e.n.t.s.w.i.t.h.f.a.l.s.e.m.e.m.o.r.i.e.s .....s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e.c.h.n.o. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 17:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Ah, just the kind of geeky topic I love. I share the Incus and hat obsessions with you, Steve. My lesser (but still powerful) obsession is probably FMP. But over the last few years, I've been buying A LOT of Okkadisk recordings. Unique sessions plus vital scene documentation plus groovy aesthetic. And of course, I foresee full-scale obsession with the Atavistic reissue series. I need to start moonlighting. Shine 'em up, anyone? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 21 Oct 2000 17:24:57 +0000 on 10/21/00 8:38 PM, Steve Smith at ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote: > In addition to the Vision Festival tape you mention, there's a pro-shot film > called 'Rising Tones Cross,' [snip] I think it's pretty > amazing. Agreed. This is a great document. > The two tapes you cite, Cecil Taylor's 'Burning Poles' (Mystic Fire 1991, with > William Parker, Tony Oxley and Henry Martinez And if anyone has a session date and venue for this, I need it for the Parker discography. The vid gives no citations. > a video of the Ornette Coleman Trio (Izenson and > Moffett) but have never had a chance to view it. This is also a beautiful little piece. Brief, but some great playing, and a bit of strangely funny dialogue going on in between too. > late-'80s Ornette documentary 'Made in America' may still be available > somewhere. Anyone know if this is still find-able? > And I've heard that Anthony Braxton is featured on at least some of the video > available from the Woodstock Creative Music Workshop. Where are these? --Also, Circeto in France has made a video documentary of David S. Ware, "Music can enhance happiness" / a 52 minute documentary, and a concert performance by the quartet (w/ Brown on traps) that runs 60-90 minutes (as it says at their website: circeto.com/html/television/tele.html There needs to be much more visual documentation of this music. Of course there are a few million European TV broadcast tapes floating around, of various quality. Some real stunners. I've come across a few Die Like a Dog concerts on video that are riveting. Okay, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 17:33:12 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I used > to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could > depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland > actually do this? What label(s)? And why? Erstwhile, of course! I'll tend to pick up anything on Matchless, too, though I've far from a complete set. In a bargain bin, anything on the hat series or King's World Music Library is automatic. Brian Olewnick NP: Dick Raaijmakers - The Complete Tape Music (Donemus) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 17:31:33 +0000 on 10/21/00 9:06 PM, Steve Smith at ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote: > When I tried to order the supposedly-impending 10 CD Cecil Taylor live boxset > from FMR Records Thanks for reminding me... I should write them back. > buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could > depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland > actually do this? What label(s)? And why? AUMFidelity Eremite Hopscotch Well, the discography links are obvious, but then these catalogues are incredibly consistent, and I think they deserve my support, and also they're "manageable"-- I mean I'd like all the hatARTs, but that would probably be the end of me. Geez, R ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: completism( was a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 17:48:33 EDT New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I used to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland actually do this? What label(s)? And why? Shamefully, I still engage in completist fetishism with certain artists just because "if it's them, it's interesting". You'd think some of those eighties Zappa albums would have cured me of that, but, sadly, no. Dave Douglas -- as much for the sidemen as for DD. I don't know that Mark Feldman and Guy Klucevsek automatically make something interesting, but so far, it's been that way. Same for pretty much all his groups. Don Byron -- Same thing, along with the fact that his personal musical perspective is always interesting, so, even when a concept doesn't fare as successfully as one would hope (re: Nu Blaxploitation), it's still fascinating on some level. NRBQ -- There's never been, for me, a Q record without SOMETHING that made it worth having. Flatt & Scruggs -- There's always some Earl Scruggs solo that reminds us why he is the Bud Powell of five-string banjo. I was cured of certain artists about whom I suffered this affliction when they made nothing I could listen to for five years or more: Stevie Wonder, Zappa, Prince, Public Enemy, T-Bone Walker, and Sun Ra. As for labels: Grammavision, JMT, and Def Jam. skip heller NP: Raymond Scott: Manhattan Reseach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 17:52:29 -0400 At 04:06 PM 10/21/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: >Alastair Wilson wrote: > >> So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music >> obsession was out of control? I related the theme of this thread to my wife today, along with a couple of the amusing anecdotes, and she said, "so what was your moment?" I replied, "my music obsession isn't out of control." Peals of genuine laughter for at least a minute. Oh well. >New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I used >to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could >depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland >actually do this? What label(s)? And why? Trente Oiseaux is the only current label where I'm near to completion. In addition to Bernhard Gunter, the label includes many of the sound artists I continue to find fascinating, so I trust it to have interesting people I've never heard of. Selektion is moving up the list for the same reason, except the original artist was Ralf Wehowsky (RLW). ReR (formerly Recommended) still gives a pretty fascinating cross section of stuff that used to be rock, and has done so for at least 20 years. Metamkine and empreintes Digitales for interesting and inexpensive (for Metamkine) musique concrete, as long as the description doesn't feature vocals too prominently (I have a very hard time with poetry recitations in any form). I'm expecting a big shipment from Jon, so I guess Erstwhile is moving up the list (as soon as I catch up on its back catalog). Axiom was pretty good, it led me to Threadgill and some interesting world musicians (as has RealWorld). And at various times, Touch and Extreme have been reliable, although I don't follow them as closely as I used to. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sergio luque" Subject: Re: Carl Stone (@ mp3.com) Date: 21 Oct 2000 17:12:15 -0500 hello, FWIW: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/139/carl_stone.html ____________________________________________________________ sergio luque sergio@tomate.com.mx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: zorn/eye box set Date: 21 Oct 2000 18:34:48 EDT there were a few people wondering about the box set mentioned earlier (including myself) and i did a bit of research on the topic. research meaning i first checked the FAQ and here are the results of my countless moments of research.....this took me literally 10's of seconds: What's the deal with this 100 CD boxset? In an issue of The Wire, there was an advertisement for a 100 CD boxset of Zorn/Eye from their 1995 China tour. Supposedly, it is a limited edition of 1000 copies. Each CD will be variable length with the shortest at one second! Word is that the release date has been pushed back to Fall 1997, my guess is that is optimistic. More recent info seems to indicate that the project has been cancelled. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Gatzen Subject: on-line cd stores Date: 21 Oct 2000 15:55:09 -0700 (PDT) other than "other music, downtown music gallery , and forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line are good to find weird, obscure stuff from. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Gunning" Subject: Re: on-line cd stores Date: 21 Oct 2000 17:58:00 -0500 > other than "other music, downtown music gallery , and > forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line are > good to find weird, obscure stuff from. Anomalous has weirdest, most obscure stuff I've seen. www.anomalousrecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Gatzen Subject: Ulan Bator Date: 21 Oct 2000 16:08:46 -0700 (PDT) what ever happened to them? are they still together? does anyone have any cds they wanna trade? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Ulan Bator Date: 21 Oct 2000 19:21:23 EDT In a message dated 10/21/00 7:09:31 PM, aargh881@yahoo.com writes: << what ever happened to them? are they still together? >> I've actually never heard the band per se, but they just released a remix CD EP, with tracks by Otomo, Erik M, Scanner, and Carl Stone. one guess as to the two tracks I prefer... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 19:36:28 EDT Steve Smith wrote: << New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I used to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland actually do this? What label(s)? And why? >> hmm, this is an interesting question. there's a lot of labels that I get many or most of the releases from (Durian, For 4 Ears, Matchless, Metamkine, BOXmedia, Corpus Hermeticum, Mego, Alga Marghen, Amoebic are some that come to mind), but the only one I can think of right now that I've bought every single one of (assuming a minimum of 5 releases) is Paradigm, Clive Graham's superb English label which is dually focused on documenting some of the more interesting facets of the British scene (Morphogenesis and their individual members, plus the Variations compilations), and unearthing super-obscure, really great gems, previously only known to Steven Stapleton. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: on-line cd stores Date: 21 Oct 2000 21:00:19 -0400 > other than "other music, downtown music gallery , and > forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line are > good to find weird, obscure stuff from. Rioux's (http://www.riouxs.com) are really great. They do price matching, and can special order what you need. The two Polwechsel discs just showed up on Friday, making me a very happy camper. Manifold (http://www.manifoldrecords.com) is good for strange stuff, as is Groundfault (http://www.groundfault.net/) both have lots of crazy noise, sound collage, and truly out stuff. Prices seem good, but I've never ordered from Groundfault. Anyone know where I can get my hands on a copy of the Phil Durrant, Thomas Lehn and Radu Malfatti "Beinhaltung" cd? After the Polwechsel, and the Erstwhile records (a label I can consistently trust for wicked stuff) I'd really like to get my hands on a copy. It seems to be out of print though. Cheers, Nirav AIM: Icefactory37 -- OnNow- Today is rthe Day- In the Eyes of God (super evil......super good) "Don't try to make me consistent. I am learning all the time." - R. Buckminster Fuller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 21 Oct 2000 20:49:48 -0400 Another video that comes to mind is "Imagine the Sound" from 1981, with Paul Bley, Bill Dixon, Archie Shepp and Cecil Taylor. I understand that Ornette's "Made In America" was once officially released on video. Unfortunately, the one that I paid a bundle for on eBay turned out to be a near-inaudible bootleg. Grr. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: on-line cd stores Date: 21 Oct 2000 20:54:54 -0400 On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 03:55:09PM -0700, Tom Gatzen wrote: > other than "other music, downtown music gallery , and > forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line are > good to find weird, obscure stuff from. I do almost weekly snarfages from Anomalous Records's new release email (as well as from Forced Exposure and, a little less frequently, Downtown Music Gallery). Artist Shop (artists-shop.com) also has consistently surprising stuff. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 20:57:37 -0400 On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 07:36:28PM -0400, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > Steve Smith wrote: > > << New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I > used > to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could > depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland > actually do this? What label(s)? And why? >> Come to think of it, waaaay back when I would do this for vinyl from Artists House, Caravan of Dreams, Editions EG, Lovely Music, and Obscure. I find myself getting just about everything on organ of Corti of late too. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Re: completism( was a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 21:51:21 EDT Lately, O'Rourke's Moikai label has been draining my resources. The stuff he puts out is fantastc, diverse, and challenging. Plus, Drag City distributes it, making it moderaetly easy to find. Table of The Elements, at least, from my experience, has been consistent in releasing quality material. It can be very challenging at times, however. Also : Mille Plateaux, Trente Oiseaux, and Mego seem to be pretty consistant with quality, although not extremely diverse at some times. from, ]matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Ong Subject: Re: on-line cd stores Date: 21 Oct 2000 21:14:59 -0400 > from Groundfault. Anyone know where I can get my hands on a copy of the Phil > Durrant, Thomas Lehn and Radu Malfatti "Beinhaltung" cd? After the > Polwechsel, and the Erstwhile records (a label I can consistently trust for > wicked stuff) I'd really like to get my hands on a copy. It seems to be out > of print though. If I'm thinking of the right disc (weird cardboard white packaging, yes?), then I wouldn't bother tracking this one down. I thought it was, well, kind of bad. You'd find it very very underwhelming, even if you are an enthusiast of quiet music. -eric. np: Radu Malfatti/Harry Miller - "Bracknell Breakdown" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 22:44:49 EDT In a message dated 10/21/00 4:08:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I used to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland actually do this? What label(s)? And why? >> I trust Winter and Winter and have spent lots of money to prove it. Tzadik gets a good chunk of my paycheck as well, though I make sure I at least read the glowing descriptions contained on the website. The unbridled enthusiasm the label has for each of its releases is embarrasingly infectious. Tom D. ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 21 Oct 2000 23:14:57 EDT In a message dated 10/21/00 9:39:37 PM, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << I find myself getting just about everything on organ of Corti of late too. >> how's the new Charlemagne Palestine disc? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: on-line cd stores Date: 21 Oct 2000 23:36:57 EDT In a message dated 10/21/00 10:18:35 PM, eso200@earthlink.net writes: << Anyone know where I can get my hands on a copy of the Phil > Durrant, Thomas Lehn and Radu Malfatti "Beinhaltung" cd? After the > Polwechsel, and the Erstwhile records (a label I can consistently trust for > wicked stuff) I'd really like to get my hands on a copy. It seems to be out > of print though. If I'm thinking of the right disc (weird cardboard white packaging, yes?), then I wouldn't bother tracking this one down. I thought it was, well, kind of bad. You'd find it very very underwhelming, even if you are an enthusiast of quiet music. >> I'd agree with underwhelming, although I'd stop well short of bad. Radu Malfatti has increasingly explored the boundary between sound and silence over the past few years, kind of improv's answer to Bernhard Gunter. the problem is that when you insert numerous silences into your music, it's very hard to keep any sort of momentum or continuity going. that's one of the problems with the Fringes CD, the other being that it was mastered too quietly. a better example of Malfatti's recent work is his CD on Edition Wandelweiser, 2 33 minute pieces, one for solo trombone, one for string quartet. I'm releasing the second CD by the trio from the Fringes release in early 2001, and it's a much superior recording to the first one. it was recorded in Ulrichsberg, Austria at a festival in 1999, and begins with the sound of rain on the roof of the building (reminiscent of the Bailey/Tanaka CD). after a few minutes, the musicians gradually start, and the rain stops, and the occasional creak of the sun drying out the roof can be heard. as for the music, while still very subdued, there's a real forward momentum to it that continues through the entire hour. I'm pretty excited about it, actually. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hugo Linares" Subject: RE: douglas' a thousand evenings Date: 22 Oct 2000 00:46:05 -0200 Hi Zornheads, Whit Schonbein wrote: >i've listened to it about 4 or 5 times now. it lacks the lyrical quality >that made the first charms of the night sky so nice to my ears. after 5 >listenings, the only song to which i can recall the melody is >'goldfinger', Well, I can also recall the haunting melody of "On our way home" (track 11), a real hit at a first listening, with Klucevsek at his best (who reminds me the sound of Argentinian accordion player Raul Barboza); "The little boy with the sad eyes" (track 6) has a jazzy flavour (considering it's a Nat Adderley's composition) that prick your ears very easily. And "A thousand Evenings" (track 1) is another catching composition, in the vein of "Charms of the night sky", the first track of the 1998 released album. Alan Lankin wrote: >I'm still absorbing "A Thousand Evenings," but it seems quite good so far. >"The Branches" is especially good. Seconded, especially "Part II" (track 3). I'm not as sure about the Jaki Byard >tribute yet. But in any case, Mark Feldman is fabulous throughout. He >sounds like he's going to explode... Also seconded, though I enjoyed every musicians' performance so far. All in all, and IMO, a wonderful, outstanding recording. Later, Hugo Linares NP: Ernesto Baffa _Ernesto Baffa_ (Melopea Discos). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (a return comment about a zappa remark) Date: 22 Oct 2000 00:46:12 EDT someone mentioned earlier about not knowing why they continued collecting zappa material even after some of his 80's material. i would just like to say....what is wrong with his 80's material? did you happen to catch the '88 tour? it doesn't get any better than that. Frank, Ike Willis, Scott Thunes, and Mike Keneally (mike is the man) all on one stage. i am going to stop before i turn this into a sales pitch for mike keneally albums (www.keneally.com) <----GO THERE!!!! i saw Melt Banana tonight. great show. later, folks - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: What was I thinking? (a return comment about a zappa remark) Date: 22 Oct 2000 02:52:48 EDT The Joe's Garage -through (roughly) - Them Or Us phase just didn't cut it for me. Too much vocal music, and too much cheap humor for my taste (although I think the tune "Tinseltown Rebellion" is a gem). I think things were not as interesting (for my taste) until Frank discovered the Synclavier. He seemed to get more into the music end of things around that time. As for the 88 band, I grant you they were as technically spotless a touring band as Frank ever had, but there was something kind of monochromatic about them for me. They had all the notes under their hands, but I never felt like they were as out on the edge of the music as say, (Ruth) Underwood and company. I thought FZ's best marriage of technique and character happened with the 1974 band (documented on YOU CAN'T DO THAT ON STAGE ANYMORE Vol 2). I also think his material was at a peak there. best -- skip h NP: Joe Bataan, SUBWAY JOE - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) Subject: Completism etc. Date: 22 Oct 2000 03:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Hello, ...on the subject of collecting the complete discographies of specific labels, I must mention that I've never been successful. The big reason is due to limited funds, but another fly in the ointment is my difficulty in focusing widespread interests. One day my big desire would be current free jazz, a few days later I'd be jonesing for more country blues collections, then '60's psyche artifacts, various jazz reissues, indie rock staples, folk and classical, etc. When ZYX reissued the ESP catalog a few years ago, I was working on collecting it all, but I ran into a financial snag that interrupted me. Now that it's being reactivated I should finally succeed in having the complete documentation of a label at my fingertips. ...on the subject of musicians on film, I'd like to mention that my first exposure to free music came from video, a portion of a improv from the Knitting Factory by William Parker, Milford Graves, and Peter Brotzmann. It was featured on a Atavistic/Chemical Imbalance magazine video comp. called "Mouthful of Sweat". Needless to say, I was totally blown away by the improv, particularly by Graves aggressive drumming. ...last, someone asked for opinions of Godspeed You Black Emperor! and Mecca Normal. Previous posts seemed to sum up GYBE! rather well, but nobody mentioned Mecca Normal, so here's my two cents...i haven't seen them live, but the Mecca Normal recordings I've heard ("Calico Kills the Cat"/"Water Cuts My Hands" CD on Matador, "Cardboard Box House of Love" 7 inch on K) stand as very worthy releases of a rather unique sound. They are a duo comprised of vocalist/songwriter Jean Smith and guitarist David Lester. The sound is a not easily categorized gush of feminist lyricism, expansive/abrasive vocalizing, and distorted yet loose and melodic guitar moves. I've heard that they've mellowed somewhat, but the recordings listed above certainly pushed some envelopes upon their release. So, IMO, go see them.... I remain.... Joseph "There's no boundary line to art" Charlie Parker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 22 Oct 2000 05:17:39 -0500 SOUPBEARD@aol.com wrote: > there were a few people wondering about the box set mentioned earlier > (including myself) and i did a bit of research on the topic. research > meaning i first checked the FAQ and here are the results of my countless > moments of research.....this took me literally 10's of seconds: > > What's the deal with this 100 CD boxset? > In an issue of The Wire, there was an advertisement for a 100 CD boxset of > Zorn/Eye from their 1995 China tour. Supposedly, it is a limited edition of > 1000 copies. Each CD will be variable length with the shortest at one second! > Word is that the release date has been pushed back to Fall 1997, my guess is > that is optimistic. > More recent info seems to indicate that the project has been cancelled. Mainly because the Sound Factory label went out of business altogether, if memory serves. Don't know what happened to those who'd actually sent pre-order money, however. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Strafe FR, "Cambrian," 'Lufthunger' (Touch) - dusting off a few oldies this weekend... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 22 Oct 2000 05:25:02 -0500 Joseph Zitt wrote: > Another video that comes to mind is "Imagine the Sound" from 1981, with > Paul Bley, Bill Dixon, Archie Shepp and Cecil Taylor. Is this one commonly available? Would you happen to know if it's on DVD? I just got a DVD of interesting mostly mainstream fare a few days ago, a compilation of material from Ralph Gleason's old 'Jazz Casual' TV show. In addition to a Count Basie quartet and a Dizzy Gillespie quintet, it's got the John Coltrane "classic" quartet circa 1964, playing "Afro Blue," "Alabama," and a 14 minute version of "Impressions." Classic. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Strafe FR, "Ordovician," 'Lufthunger' (Touch) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Completism etc. Date: 22 Oct 2000 05:10:46 +0000 on 10/22/00 7:08 AM, Joseph Neff at josephneff@webtv.net wrote: > video, a portion of a improv from > the Knitting Factory by William Parker, Milford Graves, and Peter > Brotzmann. It was featured on a Atavistic/Chemical Imbalance magazine > video comp. called "Mouthful of Sweat". So, any copies of this lying around? Trying to complete my Willi'm Parker collection, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 22 Oct 2000 09:14:26 -0400 On Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 05:25:02AM -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > > Another video that comes to mind is "Imagine the Sound" from 1981, with > > Paul Bley, Bill Dixon, Archie Shepp and Cecil Taylor. > > Is this one commonly available? Would you happen to know if it's on DVD? I haven't seen it on DVD, but it's out now on VHS. I *think* I got it from Anomalous. I see checkout.com has it at http://www.checkout.com/movies/title/info/0,,846934,00.html?src=search > I just got a DVD of interesting mostly mainstream fare a few days ago, a > compilation of material from Ralph Gleason's old 'Jazz Casual' TV show. In > addition to a Count Basie quartet and a Dizzy Gillespie quintet, it's got > the John Coltrane "classic" quartet circa 1964, playing "Afro Blue," > "Alabama," and a 14 minute version of "Impressions." Classic. I have the Coltrane on VHS, and will eventually get the DVD. n.p. John Zorn, "Xu Feng" -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: K.C. Date: 22 Oct 2000 10:29:28 +0200 > I hope to get the Larks'/Starless/Red trilogy soon, but I just dropped way too > much money on a pair of tickets to see the current lineup next month. Thanks for info, and have a good time on the live shows. They're really incredible now, that lineup live is much better then the previous one. The improvs kill, and the tg/pm section is a beast live. > s~z wrote: > The doubt was not about whether or not they were or were not in the band. > It was about whether such a band could "still rule." Yes, less show - off, more music.Improves in a quartet are better then in a sextet. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: weird little boy Date: 22 Oct 2000 12:34:42 EDT In a message dated 10/19/00 10:01:50 AM, you wrote: <> hi gang, seems lots are less than fond of this one. the problem for me with this piece was less of the music than the text, though the music is lesser than sum of.... my being a mad fan for the works of david wojnarowiscz, both his text and multimedia work, i was shocked to find the storyline heterosexual, and that the packaging was so much better than the music. was going to put it in the trade pile, pun unintended, but gonna keep it with my david woj. collection ---- steve koenig LaFolia.com JazzWeekly.com n.p.: Howard Riley/Oxley/Guy Trio on Emanem - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: pronounce "Barre Date: 22 Oct 2000 12:38:09 EDT In a message dated 10/19/00 10:01:50 AM, you wrote: <> I've always wondered this and said it like the English Barry. I'm told the correct pronunciation is like the English word "Bar" yrs Steve Koenig LaFolia.com Acoustic Levitation Records n.p.: Julio Estrada's opera "Dolores"/ private tape - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: zorn eye set Date: 22 Oct 2000 12:46:40 EDT In a message dated 10/22/00 3:10:12 AM, you wrote: What's the deal with this 100 CD boxset? In an issue of The Wire, there was an advertisement for a 100 CD boxset of Zorn/Eye from their 1995 China tour. Supposedly, it is a limited edition of 1000 copies. Each CD will be variable length with the shortest at one second! Word is that the release date has been pushed back to Fall 1997, my guess is that is optimistic. More recent info seems to indicate that the project has been cancelled. >> i was excited when i forst heard of this project, which was supposed to have all the discs on a wooden rolling pin, and, as you say, ranging in length from 80m to 1s. good sources tell me indeed it's been cancelled. steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: riley/oxley/guy Date: 22 Oct 2000 12:52:40 EDT In a message dated 10/22/00 12:35:46 PM, Acousticlv@aol.com writes: << n.p.: Howard Riley/Oxley/Guy Trio on Emanem >> how is this? how does it compare to Flight (FMR), same trio from a couple years earlier? are Oxley's electronics prominent at all? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Sidsel Date: 22 Oct 2000 17:58:55 +0100 Many thanks to all who helped me with the Sidsel Endreson enquiry. At least four more CDs to buy! The Dennis Gonzalez disc Steve S mentions sounds especially interesting... A - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: on-line cd stores Date: 22 Oct 2000 13:12:34 -0400 (EDT) If you're in Canada or like paying in devalued Canadian dollars (about 60 cents U.S.), try Verge Music Distributors in Uxbridge, Ont. www.vergemusic.com Because it's in Canada, Verge also sometimes stocks different European, Australian etc. labels that aren't available in the U.S. You can get on its monthly e-mail release list by writing info@vergemusic.com Ken Waxman (standard disclaimer-- no affiliation except as a satisfied customer) --- Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 03:55:09PM -0700, Tom Gatzen > wrote: > > other than "other music, downtown music gallery , > and forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line > are good to find weird, obscure stuff from. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: Cyro Baptista Date: 22 Oct 2000 21:14:18 +0200 (DST) I dont know if this will reach the list directly, so I pass it on... <<<<< CYRO BAPTISTA & BEAT THE DONKEY Thursday , OCTOBER 26 , 8 pm TISHMAN AUDITORIUM @ New School University !!!!!!!! free admission !!!!!!!!! Brazilian percussionist Cyro Baptista has performed and recorded with artists such as Herbie Hancock, Paul Simon, Laurie Anderson and Sting, just to name a few. His explosive percussion ensemble, featuring 9 musicians from 5 different countries, expands rhythm beyond their natural frontiers by incorporating Balinese gongs, Brazilian and African grooves, tap dance and Brazilian capoeira.. Playing traditional and non-traditional instruments, it could best be described as eccentric percussion theatre. http://www.cyrobaptista.com/ >>>>>>>>>> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kevin Richards" Subject: denver Date: 22 Oct 2000 19:44:36 GMT finally, i got on this list. so any thought on stuff in the front range area. i know there has been quite a bit of activity here lately. wondering if anyone had any suggestions for stuff other than cmw, or the gallery shows? and anyone who missed the trio 3 show, by the way, really missed out on an amazing performance. kevin _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins Subject: Re: riley/oxley/guy Date: 22 Oct 2000 15:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Speaking of Riley stuff, has anybody heard the Sony/Columbia reissues of his? I believe they're from the late 60s/early 70s. Thanks, Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: denver Date: 22 Oct 2000 15:40:18 -0400 On Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 07:44:36PM +0000, Kevin Richards wrote: > finally, i got on this list. > > so any thought on stuff in the front range area. i know there has been quite > a bit of activity here lately. wondering if anyone had any suggestions for > stuff other than cmw, or the gallery shows? and anyone who missed the trio 3 > show, by the way, really missed out on an amazing performance. What or where is the front range area? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Pr=E9vost_pronunciation?= Date: 22 Oct 2000 21:17:38 -0400 well, Tilbury introduced him as PRAY-vost; i figure he otta no. --steve check out the cool new stuff on http://www.stephendrury.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: SONAR 99 comp box (rec request) Date: 22 Oct 2000 18:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Has anyone heard this, and how is it? I've never heard of many of the artists, but the ones I'm familiar with, I like quite a bit. Advice would be much appreciated, off-list if you prefer. I've included the artist list just for list interest. Thanks! -----s Various Artists: SONAR 99 (4cd's) label: SO DENS "The most prestigious electronic underground festival In Europe: astonishing tracklist, 4CDs for the price of a double CD!" Tracklisting: Anton Ignorant: "The Right To Copy", F.X. Randomiz: "Gwengl", We: "12 Diablos", Solo Los Solo: "La Del Perro", Suicide: "Johnny", Rhythm & Sound With Tikiman: "Never Tell You", David Toop: "An Arthopod Raising Ist", Rainer Trüby Trio: "Donaueschingen", Chop Suey: "Tiny Tinny Heart", Memorabilia: "Plantas Carnívoras", Madelman: "Dramabank", Dee Jay Kul: "I Want To B (The Future)", I-F: "Secret Desire (Vox)", Killerloop: "Music Inside", Fetisch Park: "Blow", Laurent Garnier: "Kallit!", Kruder and Dorfmeister: "Shakatakadoodub", Raeo: "Chemical Imbalance", Pole: "Stadt", Kreidler: "Coldness (Sunroof mix)", Killa Bite: "A1", Tarwater: "20 Miles Up", Supercollider: "Darn (Cold Way O' Lovin)", Penelope & Carlo: "Terror En El Espacio", Mastretta: "El Último Habitante", Del O'Rourke/Fennesz/Pita: "(5,6m Of) Fennoberg", Groof: "I Want You", Theorem: "Igneous", Speedy J: "Ieee Mitten Menu (Nutt mix)", Plastikman: "Ekko", Terry Francis: "As You Cry (Edit)", Charlie Hall: "Daf. Unk", Justin Berkovi: "The Server Slips", Psyback: "Niño Colado (Original mix)", D.O.D.: "1,2,3,4 (De Pompidou's mix)", Kojak: "Bad Movies", Smol Tosi: "B.Ass & D.Room", Cylob: "Cylob's Theme", Baby Ford: "Normal (Is It Normal? Clubmix)", Gak Sato: "Theme From Ufo", El Aviador Dro: "Selector De Frecuencias", Bola: "Aguilla", Chaser: "Life In Loisaida", Subvoice: "Dynamite Voltage 1", DJ Shufflemaster: "Electronique Dweller", P-18: "¡Escuchen Mi Conga!", Jeff Mills: "Preview", Ryoji Ikeda: "Zero Degrees [3]", Supercinexcene: "Nova Disco", Zeta: "Nrg Beatz", Koshmaker: "Roock It!", Marco Carola: "Track 8". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Drivymovie@aol.com Subject: Re: NYC concert: Dresser/Howard/Kimura/Ulrich Date: 22 Oct 2000 22:35:02 EDT Are you sure it is Tomas Ulrich playing cello? The Knit (being ever-so consistent in their inconsistencies) lists Satoshi Takeishi as the fourth member, on percussion. There is no mention of either Ulrich, or any other cello player for that matter. Either way, I wouldn't dare miss anything involving Dresser; I'm simply curious to know what's up. Word, Evan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 22 Oct 2000 22:54:38 EDT > > Another video that comes to mind is "Imagine the Sound" from 1981, with > > Paul Bley, Bill Dixon, Archie Shepp and Cecil Taylor. > Is this one commonly available? Would you happen to know if it's on DVD? I haven't seen it on DVD, but it's out now on VHS. I *think* I got it from Anomalous. I see checkout.com has it at http://www.checkout.com/movies/title/info/0,,846934,00.html?src=search >> Its available for rent at my neighborhood chain video store so it must have major distribution. The director(Mann?) became famous for his recent "Grass" movie so his earlier movies or documentaries were reissued. He has a beat poet video out also. The music in "Imagine The Sound" is interspersed with lots of interviews often right in the middle of a piece. I remember in a piece by Bill Dixon, the bass player (Art Davis?)takes off in this amazing solo and Dixon is gesturing madly to stop playing which he does. So much for free jazz. Cheers, John Threadgould np:"Jo"-Satoko Fujii Orchestra p.s. Didn't Arthur G say he built a shelf to hold the 100 cd Zorn/Eye? Was that in vain? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: bernard herrmann Date: 22 Oct 2000 22:57:17 EDT does anyone here know much about Bernard Herrmann? Soundtracks mostly, i think....taxi driver, vertigo, north by northwest. whats worthwhile, whats not? thanks. ben (breeder of polyhedra) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: NYC concert: Dresser/Howard/Kimura/Ulrich Date: 22 Oct 2000 23:00:57 EDT In a message dated 10/22/00 10:35:02 PM, Drivymovie writes: << Are you sure it is Tomas Ulrich playing cello? The Knit (being ever-so consistent in their inconsistencies) lists Satoshi Takeishi as the fourth member, on percussion. There is no mention of either Ulrich, or any other cello player for that matter. Either way, I wouldn't dare miss anything involving Dresser; I'm simply curious to know what's up. >> yup, according to Earl, it's Ulrich. Takeishi cancelled. just came from a superb set by Gert-Jan Prins and Anne La Berge at Roulette. Prins straddles the noise and improv genres better than anyone else I can think of. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: bernard herrmann Date: 22 Oct 2000 23:05:20 EDT The Day The Earth Stood Still North By Northwest Vertigo The 7th Voyage of SInbad Garden of Evil Journy To The Center of The Earth The Trouble With Harry Compilation: Citizen Kane: The Essential Bernard Herrmann Film Music Collection - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: bernard herrmann Date: 23 Oct 2000 14:09:00 +1000 > does anyone here know much about Bernard Herrmann? Soundtracks mostly, > i think....taxi driver, vertigo, north by northwest. whats worthwhile, whats not? Yep, he did a good handful of Hitchcock's films, plus Taxi Driver, Cape Fear, Citizen Kane... I think these are his most famous, and I'd say most of his stuff (well at least the stuff mentioned above) is worthwhile... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 22 Oct 2000 21:13:47 -0700 (PDT) On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Steve Smith wrote: > New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I used > to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could > depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland > actually do this? What label(s)? And why? oooo, good question. streamline i've always been a fan of nurse with wound and hnas and when heemann started off this label with releases by mimir, kenji haino, limpe fuchs etc i was hooked. perdition plastics initially i bought it for the thymme jones solo disc "while" and was suitably impressed. serious nod to charlemange palestine but with his own twist using layers of pianos. the rest of the catalog is equally stunning. omplatten three of the best os mutantes releases, monks, ssab songs and bjorn olsson. all excellent, and a bit eccelectic in the coverage. looking forward to more. tzadik i really enjoy the radical jewish music series, and the zorn re-issues. it's astounding how much has been released to date. unfortunately, i just couldn't keep up with the pace. if i ever win the lottery, maybe i'll be able to pick up where i left off. limited sedition a label i'd like to eventually get my hands on everything. i have a handfull of his discs and they are all excellent. equally impressive is the absolute diy approach not matched since crass' own label. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 23 Oct 2000 00:41:45 EDT In a message dated 10/23/00 12:26:15 AM, yol@esophagus.com writes: << streamline i've always been a fan of nurse with wound and hnas and when heemann started off this label with releases by mimir, kenji haino, limpe fuchs etc i was hooked. >> yeah, the first incarnation of Streamline (1001-1011) had some amazing, amazing releases (my favorite is probably Intersystems-Free Psychedelic Poster Inside, but all 11 are really good to great, except maybe the Haino.) since it restarted after a long break a year or so ago, I think the quality level has dropped way off. the second Limpe Fuchs CD is much less interesting than the first one, at least to my ears. more info on both incarnations at: www.anomalousrecords.com/Streamline/index2.html Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: NYC concert: Dresser/Howard/Kimura/Ulrich Date: 23 Oct 2000 00:55:55 -0500 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/22/00 10:35:02 PM, Drivymovie writes: > > << Are you sure it is Tomas Ulrich playing cello?[snip] > > yup, according to Earl, it's Ulrich. Takeishi cancelled. I also just got an e-mail spam from Mark Dresser himself confirming this. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Howard Riley/Oxley/Guy Trio on Emanem Date: 23 Oct 2000 01:01:39 EDT In a message dated 10/23/00 12:16:52 AM, you wrote: << n.p.: Howard Riley/Oxley/Guy Trio on Emanem >> how is this? how does it compare to Flight (FMR), same trio from a couple years earlier? are Oxley's electronics prominent at all? >> hi jon im not familiar with the earlier one, but this is a fab disc. the electronics are clearly a part of the fabric, but so well blended in with the free playing, which is from graphic or directed scores. i love it. my review will be in jazzweekly.com next week. speaking of fmr, any word on the 10cd cecil t set? steve koenig n.p.: Change: "The Glow Of Love" 12" extended dj only - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren Subject: Bernard Herrmann and Ron Mann. Date: 23 Oct 2000 01:34:08 -0400 MEEP! ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: >does anyone here know much about Bernard Herrmann? [GNANG!] >whats worthwhile, whats not? Probably one of the easiest compilations of his work to find would be the Silva Screen effort, _Torn Curtain: The Classic Film Music of Bernard Nerrmann_ (from 1995 or so). It contains a good range of material from a dozen or so fims, including a really fun assortment of stuff from a bunch of Ray Harryhausen fantasies... and it's cheap, too, which is what sold me on it shortly after I decided that I loved the music from Vertigo. I find that it's a lot of fun, by the way, to watch Martin Scorsese's remake of Cape Fear once you're at least remotely familiar with the appearance and music of the original... Elmer Bernstein's arrangement of Herrmann's score is almost identical in its stylistic tweaking to Scorsese's nip-and-tuck treatments. ...and Fastian@aol.com wrote: >The director(Mann?) became famous for his recent "Grass" >movie so his earlier movies or documentaries were reissued. He has a beat >poet video out also. Poetry in Motion isn't so much a beat compilation as it is what the title suggests... a bunch of fairly kinetic or emotive spoken-word performances captured on film (though Burroughs, Ginsberg, and Giorno *do* show up for their mandatory contributions). It's probably worth seeing, though, for the bits by Amiri Baraka (something of a Bob Marley tribute backed up by tenor sax and drum kit) and Ed Sanders (spoken word coupled with miniature hand-held or tie-mounted synth gear); other Big Names include Tom Waits, John Cage, Charles Bukowski, and Jim Carroll. -me - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reaboi@aol.com Subject: Re: riley/oxley/guy Date: 23 Oct 2000 01:37:47 EDT re: riley/oxley/guy, all the discs are sick, though very different. the new one on Emanem is the best for me because the production and sound are so great, and the playing is very 'out.' it's fun for me to try and guess what the graphic cues and notation could have been like for these pieces.... also the Sony reissues don't have Oxley. I'm forgetting the drummer's name now.... anyone interested in the development of the double-bass in free music should be obsessed with Barry Guy's innovations. and digging him on his debut recording from 1968 (around 18 to 20 years old) puts most modern "bass heroes" to shame... Cheers, Dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic) Date: 22 Oct 2000 23:10:30 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > Poster Inside, but all 11 are really good to great, except maybe the Haino.) yeah, the haino isn't quite what it could have been. but the rest have been quite good. i'm also glad to see there's been some vinyl coming out as well. the mirror, mimir and andrew chalk have all be stellar. i just got the ora double lp, but haven't had a chance to listen as of yet. i'm not sure what the value is of re-issuing thunder perfect mind on vinyl, but hey, diff'rent strokes! hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Rozie question Date: 23 Oct 2000 09:00:58 CEST Two additions for Rick Rozie: Anthony Davis / Hidden Voices (1979) Muhal Richard Abrams / View From Within (1984) I don´t think Lee is on Decoding Society´s Mandance or Taboo but I don´t have the latter. Andreas >From: "George Scala" > >Here's a quick Rozie discography from the Lord cd-rom. any others? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Günter Müller/Lê Quan Ninh Date: 23 Oct 2000 09:35:45 CEST >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com > >Müller and Ninh first met and played together in 1988, and have >occasionally >performed together since, most notably in the quartet Plugged in Zeit Reel >with Jim O'Rourke and J.A. Deane. I´ve seen this quartet some years ago at the Nickelsdorf festival and was really impressed. Are there any recordings? Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20G=FCnter=20M=FCller/L=EA=20Quan=20Ninh?= Date: 23 Oct 2000 03:56:15 EDT In a message dated 10/23/00 3:36:06 AM, andreasdietz@hotmail.com writes: << I=B4ve seen this quartet some years ago at the Nickelsdorf festival and w= as=20 really impressed. Are there any recordings? >> nope, the only other recording I know of with both Muller and Ninh is Butch=20 Morris' Conduction 22 (New World). the quartet performance you saw of Plugge= d=20 In Zeit Reel was one of only four they did, Montreuil and Vandoeuvre in 1996= ,=20 and Berlin and Nickelsdorf in 1997. Muller and Ninh haven't even played=20 together since 1997, let alone recorded, until the sessions for La Voyelle=20 Liquide took place in January 2000.=20 Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Günter Müller/Lê Quan Ninh Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:06:42 CEST thanks for the prompt answer - Erstwhile never sleeps! Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (a return comment about a zappa remark) Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:17:43 GMT+0100 > ... and Mike Keneally (mike is the man) all on one stage. i am > going > to stop before i turn this into a sales pitch for mike keneally albums > (www.keneally.com) <----GO THERE!!!! Keneally indeed is THE MAN. The way he took over Zappa's role at the Zappa's Universe show (watch the video instead of listening to the album) is breathtaking. Listen to ' Jazz Discharge Party Hats' and get convinced.. His soloalbums 'Hat' and 'Boil That Dust Speck' are very enjoyable music- and humorwise and his liverecord with Beer for Dolphins includes some very nice snippets of the in-the-studio-process. Jeroen Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: bernard herrmann Date: 23 Oct 2000 13:01:58 CEST >From: ObviousEye@aol.com >does anyone here know much about Bernard Herrmann? whats worthwhile, whats >not? >thanks. Any Herrmann recommendations-list is not complete without the psycho soundtrack. This is mandatory Herrmann. A good compilation to start with, if you're not all that familiar with Herrmann, is Alfred Hitchcock: Signatures in Suspence. I forget the name of the label, but it has a lot of nice Herrmann things, including a suite of the psycho themes, and some stuff that has not been released before. Signatures in Suspence also has a lot of other great cuts from superb composers, including a cue by Franz Waxman called "Jukebox#5". This is excellent stuff. The psycho suite, "A Narrative for Orchestra", is a bit slower and slides along smoother than the original soundtrack. But still i enjoy the original the most, because of the dodgy sound quality, and the general charm of O.S.T. recording. Check out www.bernardherrmann.org which is a great resource site for Herrmann fans. - Marius _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: bernard herrmann Date: 23 Oct 2000 07:40:36 EDT In a message dated 10/22/00 10:58:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ObviousEye@aol.com writes: << does anyone here know much about Bernard Herrmann? Soundtracks mostly, i think....taxi driver, vertigo, north by northwest. whats worthwhile, whats not? thanks. ben (breeder of polyhedra) >> A good place to start is his Hitchcock disc. It features stuff from Psycho, Vertigo, and North By Noorthwest. Tom ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: review request and the "whole sound" genre Date: 23 Oct 2000 09:01:18 -0400 Hello, When somebody on the list hears the new Derek Bailey record, "String Theory" on Paratactile, can you post a review? Thanks. There is an arty blurb about it posted on the Forced Exposure site that I does not give me a clear picture of what is going on. In fact this blurb refers to something called the "whole sound", as if it were a sub-genre of experimental music. Anybody hip to the definition of "whole sound" music? David "gotta keep up with the kids' lingo" K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 16:40:50 CEST Since we now are on the subject of soundtracks, I thought it'd be a good idea to share our favourite soundtrack albums. Here are mine: Vertigo(Bernard Herrmann) Psycho (Bernard Herrmann) The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (Ennio Morricone) Once Upon a Time in the West (Ennio Morricone) Metropolis (Unknown... one of the many soundtracks produced for this film, I have no idea who wrote it) Philip Glass' newly composed score for the 1931 Dracula movie is also a favourite. Speaking of Glass and scores, has anybody heard his score for the film Mishima? If so, how is it? Is it any good? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 07:46:49 -0700 On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:40:50 CEST "Marius Ergo" wrote: > > Since we now are on the subject of soundtracks, I thought it'd be a good > idea to share our favourite soundtrack albums. > Here are mine: THE DRAUGHTSMAN CONTRACT: Michael Nyman Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Diego Gruber" Subject: Internet Radios Date: 23 Oct 2000 16:49:53 +0200 Greetings zornlisters, I finally have a fast enough internet connection to listen to radios on the web, what are the best radios you've found? what are the best websites with real audio music programs or stuff like that (like Herb Levy's mappings, for example)? Thanks for the info, Diego - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 07:48:40 -0700 Bad Timing, A Sensual Obsession Lost Highway Paris, Texas - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 07:56:39 -0700 Personally I think Mishima is the best piece of music by Glass. It is the first thing I heard by Glass - which caused me to investigate his other works. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 10:19:53 -0400 On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 04:40:50PM +0200, Marius Ergo wrote: > Since we now are on the subject of soundtracks, I thought it'd be a good > idea to share our favourite soundtrack albums. The one that immediately jumps to mind is Howard Shore and Ornette Coleman's "Naked Lunch", with Miles Davis and Marcus Miller's "Siesta" a close second. > Speaking of Glass and scores, has anybody heard his score for the film > Mishima? If so, how is it? Is it any good? I really liked it, though it's been years since I've heard it. np. Theo Bleckmann/John Hollenbeck: Static Still -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 17:01:22 +0200 ----- Wiadomo=B6=E6 oryginalna ----- Od: "Marius Ergo" Do: Wys=B3ano: 23 pa=BCdziernika 2000 18:40 Temat: favourite soundtracks | Since we now are on the subject of soundtracks, I thought it'd be a goo= d | idea to share our favourite soundtrack albums. | Here are mine: | And mine are: Queen Margot - Goran Bregovic Double Vie de la Veronique - Zbigniew Preisner Twin Peaks - Angelo Badalamenti Once Upon A Time in America - Ennio Morricone Godfather - Nino Rota Arizona Dream - Goran Bregovic Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Internet Radios Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:09:19 -0400 Try WFMU and WREK, both of interest to Zornlisters. They both have archived shows as well as live streaming (RealAudio and MP3). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 02:16:01 +1000 > Since we now are on the subject of soundtracks, I thought it'd be a good > idea to share our favourite soundtrack albums. Bird With The Crystal Plumage - Ennio Morricone Once Upon A Time In America - Ennio Morricone Twin Peaks - Angelo Badalamenti Contempt - Georges Delerue (the music that is, not the album) and less consistent soundtracks but with good bits: A Clockwork Orange - Walter Carlos/Beethoven/Purcell/etc. The Cook, The Thief... - Michael Nyman The Usual Suspects - John Ottman Fargo - Carter Burwell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: glass "mishima" (was: favourite soundtracks) Date: 23 Oct 2000 17:31:15 +0200 Marius Ergo wrote: > Speaking of Glass and scores, has anybody heard his score for the film > Mishima? If so, how is it? Is it any good?- i'm not very familiar with glass' output. what i wonder though about "mishima": does it have anything to do with th= e japanese write yukio mishima? thanks for your help. patRice np: fran=E7ois k, fk-ep, wave nr: don ed hardy, tattootime - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 23 Oct 2000 17:46:02 CEST Nobody mentioned the outstanding STEP ACROSS THE BORDER (1989) by Nicolas Humbert featuring Fred Frith with contributions by Zorn, Cora, Lindsay, Iva Bittova, Rene Lussier and many others. This weekend a small German TV station was broadcasting this movie at 2 in the morning - the time avantgarde fans are most active. Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Internet Radios Date: 23 Oct 2000 12:05:08 -0400 Here are some: http://www.gogaga.com/ http://www.wfmu.org/ http://www.antennaradio.com/ this one lists a lot of internet streaming mp3 http://www.live365.com/ Dan Hewins >I finally have a fast enough internet connection to listen to radios on the >web, what are the best radios you've found? what are the best websites with >real audio music programs or stuff like that (like Herb Levy's mappings, for >example)? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Thomas" Subject: RE: Riley/Guy/Oxley Date: 23 Oct 2000 10:42:38 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D07.DF79F0F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Acousticlv@aol.com writes: << n.p.: Howard Riley/Oxley/Guy Trio on Emanem >> Jon Abbey: >how is this? how does it compare to Flight (FMR), same trio from a couple >years earlier? are Oxley's electronics prominent at all? Jason Bivins: >Speaking of Riley stuff, has anybody heard the Sony/Columbia reissues of >his? I believe they're from the late 60s/early 70s. I've got the new Riley/Oxley/Guy on Emanem as well as Sony reissues. They're all very good though the latest one on Emanem is the most interesting to me. On it, the liners indicate they are playing from graphic scores and traditional notated scores as well as using pure improvisation. There seems to be more space in the music on the Emanem disc, don't know if it's because of the approach mentioned above or not but it helps to bring some focus and distillation to Guy's playing which was a big plus for me. It is mentioned in the liners that pedal-controlled amplification is used by Guy & Oxley. Whatever the case, you can clearly hear their contributions on the Emanem record even during the quietest moments. Oxley's electronics do play an important role in the record though I don't think they are used throughout the whole disc. I will attempt some descriptions without understanding his setup too well...at several points he uses the electronics to sustain and distort what sounds like cymbal sounds and also he sets up some sustained tones that come off sort of drone like and have kinda a cheesy sci-fi electronics feel. I thought they added nicely to the record and can't think of any piano trio attempting music like this back then or even today, but then I haven't heard hyperpiano yet. :) Riley plays quite well on the Emanem disc. Though at times his approaches remind of Taylor or other "free jazz/improv" piano, that impression didn't last very long for me. He has his own voice and is a lyrical "free" player. Comparing it to _Flight_, the sound is much better on the Emanem, and I think the pieces are more adventurous as well. I think the Emanem was their last recording (?). John ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D07.DF79F0F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Riley/Guy/Oxley

Acousticlv@aol.com writes:
<< n.p.: Howard Riley/Oxley/Guy Trio on Emanem >>

Jon Abbey:
>how is this? how does it compare to Flight (FMR), same trio from a couple
>years earlier? are Oxley's electronics prominent at all?

Jason Bivins:
>Speaking of Riley stuff, has anybody heard the Sony/Columbia reissues of
>his? I believe they're from the late 60s/early 70s.

I've got the new Riley/Oxley/Guy on Emanem as well as Sony reissues.

They're all very good though the latest one on Emanem is the most interesting
to me. On it, the liners indicate they are playing from graphic scores
and traditional notated scores as well as using pure improvisation. There seems
to be more space in the music on the Emanem disc, don't know if it's because
of the approach mentioned above or not but it helps to bring some focus
and distillation to Guy's playing which was a big plus for me.

It is mentioned in the liners that pedal-controlled amplification is used by
Guy & Oxley. Whatever the case, you can clearly hear their contributions on
the Emanem record even during the quietest moments. Oxley's electronics do
play an important role in the record though I don't think they are used
throughout the whole disc. I will attempt some descriptions without understanding
his setup too well...at several points he uses the electronics to sustain and
distort what sounds like cymbal sounds and also he sets up some sustained tones
that come off sort of drone like and have kinda a cheesy sci-fi electronics feel.
I thought they added nicely to the record and can't think of any piano trio
attempting music like this back then or even today, but then I haven't heard
hyperpiano yet. :)

Riley plays quite well on the Emanem disc. Though at times his approaches remind
of Taylor or other "free jazz/improv" piano, that impression didn't last very long
for me. He has his own voice and is a lyrical "free" player.

Comparing it to _Flight_, the sound is much better on the Emanem, and I think the
pieces are more adventurous as well. I think the Emanem was their last recording (?).

John



------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D07.DF79F0F0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: musicians on film Date: 23 Oct 2000 18:57:59 +0200 Hm, maybe you have recorde it? If so we could arrange a trade... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 7:46 PM > Nobody mentioned the outstanding STEP ACROSS THE BORDER (1989) by Nicolas > Humbert featuring Fred Frith with contributions by Zorn, Cora, Lindsay, Iva > Bittova, Rene Lussier and many others. This weekend a small German TV > station was broadcasting this movie at 2 in the morning - the time > avantgarde fans are most active. > > Andreas > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Rozie question Date: 23 Oct 2000 13:02:13 -0500 Andreas Dietz wrote: > I don=B4t think Lee is on Decoding Society=B4s Mandance or Taboo but I = don=B4t > have the latter. He's on three tracks on 'Mandance' and one on 'Taboo,' most likely from a single recording session ('Taboo' is apparently a collection of out takes= , at least in part). Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ruth Cameron, "My Old Flame," 'Roadhouse' (Verve) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Internet Radios Date: 23 Oct 2000 13:10:37 EDT It's also worth perusing the lists at live365 << http://www.live365.com >> . Thousands of stations there- many genre-specific as well as loads of freeform programs. You'll be sure to find something there you like. -- np: Six Finger Satellite- Law of Ruins =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: carlstone Date: 23 Oct 2000 12:45:28 -0500 brian o said: I found myself regretting one aspect of Powerbook composers: they rarely get physically tired enough to take a break. funny. i was there and i was thinking the exact same thing. i gave stone credit for putting me in a really foul mood, though. not exactly like i left bored... kg np: taj mahal - the real blues (by the way, i think a while back somebody asked about recordings of the 1960s taj/ry cooder band 'rising sons.' something came out about 2yrs ago, i think the first time anything's been released. kinda uninspired. sounds to me like the same sorta sixties pound-the-fuckin-riff blooz that goes nowhere much. save your dollars.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Gunning" Subject: Re: glass "mishima" (was: favourite soundtracks) Date: 23 Oct 2000 12:10:04 -0500 >what i wonder though about "mishima": does it have anything to do with the >japanese write yukio mishima? That's exactly the subject, his life and suicide. Pretty intense film. dg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 13:15:09 -0500 Twin Peaks (Angelo Badalamenti) Wild at Heart (Angelo Badalamenti) Trespass (Ry Cooder) The Garden (Simon Fisher-Turner) Koyaanisqatsi (Philip Glass) Mishima (Philip Glass) Planet of the Apes (Jerry Goldsmith) North by Northwest (Bernard Herrmann) Conan the Barbarian (Basil Pouledoris) Spellbound (Miklos Rozsa) The Incredible Shrinking Man (Hans Salter) Naked Lunch (Howard Shore, Ornette Coleman) The X-Files (Mark Snow) One from the Heart (Tom Waits) Night on Earth (Tom Waits) Star Wars Trilogy (John Williams) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ruth Cameron, "Again," 'Roadhouse' (Verve) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: carlstone Date: 23 Oct 2000 18:32:25 +0100 Kurt G said: > (by the way, i think a while back somebody asked about recordings of the 1960s > taj/ry cooder band 'rising sons.' something came out about 2yrs ago, i think the > first time anything's been released. kinda uninspired. sounds to me like the > same sorta sixties pound-the-fuckin-riff blooz that goes nowhere much. save your > dollars.) If only you'd said this two months ago...anyone else fancy a trade? ;-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Diego Gruber" Subject: RE: Internet Radios Date: 23 Oct 2000 19:37:14 +0200 Thanks for all the replies. The WFMU archives look pretty impressive, any hint to what the best programs are? D -----Mensaje original----- De: Dan Hewins [mailto:dan@synsolutions.com] Enviado el: Montag, 23. Oktober 2000 18:05 Para: Diego Gruber; Zorn list Asunto: Re: Internet Radios Here are some: http://www.gogaga.com/ http://www.wfmu.org/ http://www.antennaradio.com/ this one lists a lot of internet streaming mp3 http://www.live365.com/ Dan Hewins >I finally have a fast enough internet connection to listen to radios on the >web, what are the best radios you've found? what are the best websites with >real audio music programs or stuff like that (like Herb Levy's mappings, for >example)? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Internet Radios Date: 23 Oct 2000 18:46:34 +0100 > >I finally have a fast enough internet connection to listen to radios on the > >web, what are the best radios you've found? what are the best websites with > >real audio music programs or stuff like that (like Herb Levy's mappings, for > >example)? http://bryce.iinet.net.au/difflist/ is an Australian public radio show called "Difficult Music", sunday evenings 9-11pm Western Australian time (which works out at sunday lunchtime for Euro listeners, which is nice - sunday morning for US?). As well as good music from 'round the globe there's an emphasis on local artistes that you may not here elsewhere... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Ong Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 13:04:03 -0400 >> Since we now are on the subject of soundtracks, I thought it'd be a good >> idea to share our favourite soundtrack albums. I've always thought the soundtracks to Hal Hartley's "Flirt" and "Henry Fool" are pretty good. Perhaps not my favorites, but I must say they're very addictive. Recommended if you like simple catchy tunes that you'll be humming to yourself for weeks on end. I think most of the tracks are composed/performed by Hartley himself. -eric. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: miles soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:17:37 -0700 "siesta" would be my third favorite miles soundtrack if you count "jack johnson" which, of course, was never used for a movie. then there's the delicious one from the '50s with the french title. for a godard? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 20:23:09 +0200 (DST) THE DEAD MAN NAKED LUNCH NATURAL BORN KILLERS (the scene with jane's addiction...) UNDERGROUND ...and FILMWORKS I -VII manolis ps: bad luck zorn didn't make it to Hague due to problems with his back... But in Reiziger in Muziek (dutch TV programm) which was going to feature him live, he was discussed by Gert-Jan (i forget his family name...) who I think is the producer of some of the recent stuff, incl. CARTOON S/M. Apparently new versions of Cat o' nine tails, Carny, Music for children will be featured on this new release. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Streamline records Date: 23 Oct 2000 14:41:59 -0400 >On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: >> Poster Inside, but all 11 [original streamline releases] >>are really good to great, except maybe the Haino.) > >From: SUGAR in their vitamins? >yeah, the haino isn't quite what it could have been. >but the rest have been quite good. >i'm also glad to see there's been some vinyl >coming out as well. the mirror, mimir and >andrew chalk have all be stellar. A different opinion on the Streamline releases. I think that the Mimir release borders on terrible. Around about 1986, when Edward Ka-Spel was in "The Tear Garden" with Cevin Key of Skinny Puppy, I picked up the Tear Garden eponymous ep and the first full length album. Then 12 years later I heard Ka-Spel's Mimir lp, "Mimyriad" and I said to myself, "This is the same thing, only now it's 1998 and, although I thought it was pretty cool in 1986, it sounds embarrassingly dated now." With regard to Keiji Haino's "Beginning and End, Interwoven" on Streamline, I was impressed with this cd when it came out in 1994 and I remain impressed with it. This disc features Haino's first recorded foray into traditional song structures. Instead of 15 or 20 minute instrumental suites, we get a taste of sweet four-minute songs with verses and a refrain done Haino style. I think some of the songs-vocals and guitar playing-on that cd are just brilliant. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 14:36:03 -0400 At 01:04 PM 10/23/00 -0400, Eric Ong wrote: >I've always thought the soundtracks to Hal Hartley's "Flirt" and "Henry >Fool" are pretty good. Perhaps not my favorites, but I must say they're very >humming to yourself for weeks on end. I think most of the tracks are >composed/performed by Hartley himself. True for Henry Fool. Interesting because the soundtrack of Amateur, the film that Hartley released before Flirt, featured tracks by My Bloody Valentine, P.J. Harvey, Red House Painters, Yo La Tengo, Bettie Serveert, Liz Phair, The Jesus Lizard, Pavement... Hartley almost consistently used tracks from either Yo la tengo and Sonic youth in his previous films (and multiplied references to these bands in his films, in small details like stickers in the phone booths where the hero places a phone call, etc). Still in The book of life (P.J. Harvey as first actress), Yo la tengo appears disguised as the Army salvation band, for a few seconds. Not that any of this is directly relevant to the list or particularly illuminating. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: RE: Internet Radios Date: 23 Oct 2000 14:44:02 -0400 > Thanks for all the replies. The WFMU archives look pretty >impressive, any hint to what the best programs are? There's a lot to explore, but check out the playlists to get an idea of what the show is like. Most of the DJs are most inventive/interesting than the usual play-and-say ones. (By the way, it's best to save the show to your hard drive so you can listen later while browsing and without interruptions.) However, Irwin Chusid doesn't do playlists for his show but it's a constant surprise so don't pass it up. My other personal favorites are: Rhubarb Cake (surprising stuff that I haven't often heard of) Ken Friedman (stuff I've heard of but haven't often heard) Brian Turner (stuff I've heard and haven't heard but like to hear anyway) Incorrect Music (outsider, golden throats, etc) Unpopular Music (Kenny G, no not THAT one but a wonderful writer/host of experimental, avant, etc) Irene Trudel (yeah it might appear a bit wimpy from the playlists but this is just wonderful) Secret Museum of the Air (old "ethnic" records) The Audio Kitchen (found recordings & real-life audio snapshots) & the little that I've heard of Give the Drummer Some, Inflatable Squirrel Carcass and Hova are pretty nice. LT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 14:50:07 -0400 >From: "Patrice L. Roussel" >THE DRAUGHTSMAN CONTRACT: Michael Nyman I never was too taken with THE DRAUGHTSMAN CONTRACT, but along the same lines (soundtracks by Nyman for Peter Greenaway films) I have repeatedly enjoyed "Prospero's Books" and "Drowning by Numbers" over the years. "Shanghai Triad" - This movie is the last collaboration between Director Zhang Yimou and actress, Gong Li. The soundtrack has three songs with Gong Li on vocals, two of which are out of sight. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: miles soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:45:34 -0500 Martin Wisckol wrote: >=20 > "siesta" would be my third favorite miles soundtrack if you count "jack > johnson" which, of course, was never used for a movie. then there's the > delicious one from the '50s with the french title. for a godard? Louis Malle. _Ascenseur pour l'=E9chafaud_/_Elevator to the Gallows_, 1958. --=20 Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:47:55 -0700 On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:36:03 -0400 Benjamin Pequet wrote: > > Not that any of this is directly relevant to the list or particularly > illuminating. But there is a Hal Hartley movie with a soundtrack featuring Zeena's sisters. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: RE: Internet Radios (wfmu) Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:49:46 -0700 (PDT) I started listening to WFMU last week and haven't had the time to get around to all the great shows. One whose archive I've used several times is Fabio's (?!) "Freeform Irritainment" show (http://www.wfmu.org/Playlists/Fabio/), which is indeed freeform but really swings more in the direction of avant/'prov/elecoustic stuff, and low on novelty and low-rent ironic commentary; the DJ is cool. ----s --- Diego Gruber wrote: > Thanks for all the replies. The WFMU archives look > pretty impressive, any > hint to what the best programs are? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: miles soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:51:20 -0700 On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:45:34 -0500 Jim Flannery wrote: > > Martin Wisckol wrote: > > > > "siesta" would be my third favorite miles soundtrack if you count "jack > > johnson" which, of course, was never used for a movie. then there's the > > delicious one from the '50s with the french title. for a godard? > > Louis Malle. _Ascenseur pour l'échafaud_/_Elevator to the Gallows_, > 1958. OK, OK, if we play this game this way: STANCES POUR SOPHIE: Art Ensemble of Chicago Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcizon@800.com Subject: RE: Internet Radio Date: 23 Oct 2000 11:59:22 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D23.5AD2572C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It was with great joy when I discovered that John Peel's BBC1 radio show can be heard live online. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1 He broadcasts every Tuesday-Thursday from 2:00-4:00pm Pacific Standard Time. One of a handful of DJs that I know of who truly deserve their legendary status. He once played American death metal followed by Zimbabwean afro-pop followed by the alt-country of Neko Case. Amazing. He also takes requests via e-mail. Murray ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D23.5AD2572C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Internet Radio

It was with great joy when I discovered that John = Peel's BBC1 radio show can be heard live online.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1

He broadcasts every Tuesday-Thursday from 2:00-4:00pm = Pacific Standard Time.

One of a handful of DJs that I know of who truly = deserve their legendary status. He once played American death metal = followed by Zimbabwean afro-pop followed by the alt-country of Neko = Case. Amazing.

He also takes requests via e-mail.

Murray

------_=_NextPart_001_01C03D23.5AD2572C-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Re: favorite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 15:10:24 -0400 >From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis >DEAD MAN Well, I couldn't resist agreeing. I never liked Neil Young until I heard his solo guitar on Jarmusch's "Dead Man" soundtrack. That is a fine fine 2xlp release. >From: Steve Smith >Star Wars Trilogy (John Williams) The Star Wars soundtracks have some fine moments, especially the choir pieces for the Emperor's themes in the third movie. But when I heard those it made me think invariably of the soundtrack to 2001, which should be added to my list of favorite soundtracks. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 15:41:53 EDT My favorites: I WANT TO LIVE -- Johnny Mandel THE SOUND & THE FURY -- Alex North CHINATOWN -- Jerry Goldsmith THE HUSTLER -- Kenyon Hopkins skip heller np: Joe Bataan, SUBWAY JOE - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philippe Dupuis Subject: GLASS and GREENAWAY (favourite soundtracks) Date: 23 Oct 2000 16:59:40 +0000 hello, the music in the ERROL MORRIS documentary THIN BLUE LINE is really fantastic and all of GLASS' music always reminds me of that, probably since it's one of the first pieces i had heard of his. amazing film, i can't wait to see his GATES OF HEAVEN. i must agree that the MISHIMA music is really good. what is the film about and how good is SHRADER (sp?) i've only seen AFFLICTION and thought it was pretty good. -I never was too taken with THE DRAUGHTSMAN CONTRACT, but -along the same lines (soundtracks by Nyman for Peter -Greenaway films) I have repeatedly enjoyed "Prospero's Books" -and "Drowning by Numbers" over the years. i like the mix of different music in his PILLOW BOOK. btw, am i the only one that finds PROSPERO'S BOOK almost impossible to grasp? i always pop it in, but get lost. is reading the TEMPEST that crucial to understanding the whole thing? what do you guys think of NYMAN'S music in THE PIANO. it's on a cd here and was wondering if i should get it. what kind of music is used in HEAVEN & EARTH MAGIC? does anyone have it out there, i've been looking for it with no luck. thanks, martin dupuis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: internet radio / soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 16:01:43 -0400 I'll shamelessly plug http://radioboston.com All live during the day, all New England based music of all different = stripes (I do an instrumental / lounge / surf show) with diff. channels = should folks want to check out live music at Passim, Kendall Cafe, Middle = East, and else where. I'd say I think all=20 - Michael Nyman's Peter Greenaway sndtrks up thru The Cook, The Theif, ... = are tops. =20 - Ry Cooder's Paris, Texas - Tom Waits contributions to the field are superb - Il Mostro (and all Evan Lurie Sndtrks for older Robert Benninni films!) - Wim Mertens / Glen Branca: Belly of an Architect compilations? - Pillow Book (another Greenaway flick!)=20 - Trees Lounge - Sweet Hereafter - The Imposters - Joe Gould's Secret (Evan Lurie score + great compilation!) - Dead Presidents - Jackie Brown A Fred Frith related question - Anyone have / like / comment on "Across = the Border" which is I believe a soundtrack of sorts (Wim Wenders?)=20 bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "StichtingRumor@hetnet.nl" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 22:24:13 +0200 Miles Davis, L'escalier pour l'echafaud va - Apocalypse Now (not the music on itself, but what it does to the film) Goran Bregovic - Underground Goran Bregovic - Black Cat White Cat Mamas and Papas ao - Chungking Express Nino Rota - music for most of Fellini's films (Amarcord, Roma, 8 1/2) Gustav Mahler - Death in Venice Ligeti, Strauss ao - 2001: a space odyssey Theus/Rumor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 22:26:55 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: Do: "Marius Ergo" ; Wyslano: 23 pazdziernika 2000 22:24 Temat: Re: favourite soundtracks | Goran Bregovic - Black Cat White Cat We've discussed this matter few weeks ago. OST to BCWC was not composed by Bregovic but made by the band "Zabranjeno Pusenje" /No Smoking/. It was after the split between Bregovic and Kusturica /K. accused B. to be a plagiator/ Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Sun Ra article in New York Observer Date: 23 Oct 2000 16:33:19 -0500 Hi Zornies: There is a fairly decent article on the new Sun Ra reissues in the New York Observer this week, with good descriptions of what each of the discs is like. For those who've been wondering about these, wonder no more. Go to http://www.newyorkobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=3341 and scroll down past the P.J. Harvey article. Or, on the same subject, there were two separate articles on Ra in last week's Village Voice: "Sun Ra's Saturnal Sorcery" by Gary Giddins: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0041/giddins.shtml "Wooze and Spazz" by Eric Weisbard: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0041/weisbard.shtml (While you're there, you can check out Howard Hampton's piece "The Imaginary City," which might seem to reference Ra but is actually about William Parker's 'Mayor of Punkville' and John Lurie's Marvin Pontiac album... http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0041/hampton.shtml) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 13:49:55 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Benjamin Pequet > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:36 AM > At 01:04 PM 10/23/00 -0400, Eric Ong wrote: > >I've always thought the soundtracks to Hal Hartley's "Flirt" and "Henry > >Fool" are pretty good. Perhaps not my favorites, but I must say > they're very > > >humming to yourself for weeks on end. I think most of the tracks are > >composed/performed by Hartley himself. > > True for Henry Fool. I believe the "Ned Rifle" to whom the music for "The Unbelievable Truth" and "Trust" is credited is none other than Hartley himself, but I'm not entirely sure. Since it was asked: - Vampyros Lesbos (Hubler and Schwab) - Night on Earth (Waits) plus some runners-up: - The Angelic Conversation (Coil) - Our Man Flint / In Like Flint (Goldsmith) - Once upon a Time in America (Morricone) - Cannibal Holocaust (Ortolani) - Vertigo (Herrmann) and some collections: - 2001: A Space Odyssey - Pulp Fiction - The Exorcist - Rushmore - Apocalypse Now Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: RE: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 17:30:40 -0400 At 1:49 PM -0700 10/23/00, Benito Vergara wrote: >Since it was asked: > >- Vampyros Lesbos (Hubler and Schwab) >- Night on Earth (Waits) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Absolutely. This was an interesting one for me, though--I remember walking out of the theater thinking, "Y'know, I never really 'got' Tom Waits..." Three or four months later, I was listening to one of the local college stations, which was playing "On the Other Side of the World," and something snapped. I absolutely _had_ to get the soundtrack RIGHT AWAY, and it kicked off my Tom Waits period... Interesting how that stuff happens. Jarmusch seems to pick really good soundtracks--I really liked _Dead Man_ and _Stranger than Paradise_, which might function better in the milieu than on decontextualized disc...but I'm glad I have 'em anyway. I may have mentioned on the list how strangely haunting I found the soundtrack to _Aguirre, the Wrath of God_--I was sure it was pedal steel or something, and someone on the list pointed out that it was largely if not entirely electronic. -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 23 Oct 2000 17:34:47 -0500 Rick Lopez wrote: > > And I've heard that Anthony Braxton is featured on at least some of the video > > available from the Woodstock Creative Music Workshop. > > Where are these? Pioneer Entertainment released this DVD not so long ago and I've seen it in stores pretty regularly, but the company's website says it's already unavailable though them, so perhaps I might oughta pick it up next time I see it. The cover pictures Pat Metheny, Chick Corea and Lee Konitz, but here's a full list of who's on it (from the Collin Walcott website, of all places): Various Artists: 'Woodstock Jazz Festival' Pioneer Artists PA-98-596-D Collin Walcott-tabla, Nana Vasconcelos-berimbau, African talking drum, Ed Blackwell-drums, Aiyb Dieng-African talking drum, Karl Berger-balafon, Pat Metheny-guitar, guitar synthesizer, Jack DeJohnette-drums, Miroslav Vitous-bass, Howard Johnson-baritone sax, Julius Hemphill-tenor sax (REALLY?!?), Anthony Braxton-alto sax, Lee Konitz-alto sax, Chick Corea-piano, Baikida Carroll-trumpet, Marilyn Crispell-piano, Dewey Redman-tenor sax, Attilio Zanchi-bass 1. Arrival, 2. Left Jab, 3. We Are, 4. Berimbau Solo, 5. Broadway Blues, 6. Impressions, 7. Stella by Starlight, 8. All Blues Recorded live on September 19, 1981 I guess you'll be needing this for the Crispell sessionography, Rick? I'll let you know if I track it down. Now that I've seen a complete list of who's on it, this seems a lot more compelling, even if it omits the famous bit (on the CD 'Woodstock Jazz Festival 2') where Braxton sings Konitz's 1959 alto solo from "The Song Is You" to Konitz backstage. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 17:38:09 +0000 PATTY HEARST, Scott Johnson R ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 14:48:27 -0700 On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:38:09 +0000 Rick Lopez wrote: > > PATTY HEARST, Scott Johnson Was it a movie soundtrack? I doubt it. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 17:51:26 -0400 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:38:09 +0000 Rick Lopez wrote: > > > > PATTY HEARST, Scott Johnson > > Was it a movie soundtrack? I doubt it. > > Patrice. Yep, used in Paul Schrader's film (a good one, too). Schrader, in addition to being one of the very best directors around, imho, has shown some relatively interesting taste in soundtrack composers. I also think Glass' "Mishima" is among his best post-Einstein work, but the movie itself is just fantastic, one of the best US movies of the last 20 years, again imho. (odd to refer to it as "US", as it's largely in Japanese, but....) Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: completism Date: 23 Oct 2000 18:37:02 -0500 Velaires@aol.com wrote: > New question: We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I used > to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could > depend on it being interesting." Does anyone out there in Zornlistland > actually do this? What label(s)? And why? > > Shamefully, I still engage in completist fetishism with certain artists just > because "if it's them, it's interesting". You'd think some of those eighties > Zappa albums would have cured me of that, but, sadly, no. Well, artist completism is a whole different story than label completism. To me, the latter involves considerably more risk when it comes to projects by unknown artists. But artist completism is a valid mania, too. I'm not certain that I'm an absolute completist when it comes to any artist. Everyone's made a duff side project or two (Intergalactic Maiden Ballet, anyone? Joe Piscopo?). And when I look at discographies like those that Patrice maintains, I realize that it's just impossible to have everything. But here are the artists from whom I've bought virtually every record (as leader, at least) and/or would buy them all if money were no object: Art Ensemble of Chicago Derek Bailey Tim Berne Anthony Braxton Ornette Coleman Dave Douglas Marty Ehrlich Dennis Gonzalez Ronald Shannon Jackson King Crimson / Robert Fripp (including about three feet of boot CDs, Collector's Club releases, etc.) Sir Peter Maxwell Davies Bobby Previte Roxy Music Cecil Taylor John Zorn :zoviet-france: Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: completism Date: 23 Oct 2000 19:01:40 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > But here are the artists from whom I've bought virtually every record (as leader, > at least) and/or would buy them all if money were no object: > Dennis Gonzalez Back in the late 80's, when there was a splurge of articles on this guy, I went and bought "Stefan" on Silkheart and...I didn't see what the fuss was about. I happened to have recently listened again (traversing my "G's" these days) and I still don't hear anything particularly striking. What am I missing? Is it a Texas thing, Steve??? Are there other discs more to the point? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: miles soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 00:06:01 +0100 Martin Wisckol wrote: "jack > johnson" which, of course, was never used for a movie I saw the film a couple of years ago, and believe me, Miles' music from the album of the same name (plus some extra Miles bits) is used extensively, to good effect. I've never been able to track down a video/DVD release for the film, unfortunately. Alastair - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Howes Subject: Michael Nyman Date: 23 Oct 2000 16:29:07 -0700 (PDT) > - -I never was too taken with THE DRAUGHTSMAN CONTRACT, but > - -along the same lines (soundtracks by Nyman for Peter > - -Greenaway films) I have repeatedly enjoyed "Prospero's Books" > - -and "Drowning by Numbers" over the years. > > > btw, am i the only one that finds PROSPERO'S BOOK almost impossible > to grasp? i always pop it in, but get lost. is reading the TEMPEST that > crucial to understanding the whole thing? yes....I think you need to at least know the Tempest. Get one of those study book summaries for the Tempest. :) That is one beutiful movie....I love the dancing with hair and all those shots of those books! > what do you guys think of NYMAN'S music in THE PIANO. it's on a cd > here and was wondering if i should get it. I can't stand the Piano.....boarder line new age...absolutely boring nothing compelling at all. I love Nymans work but think 1992-93 was roughly the time he lost it...or ran out of ideas. Anything before 1992 is wonderful.....Song Book...String Quartets... The Cook the Thief....The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat... you name it....they are all wonderful....after the Piano tho his work got very spotty...Time Will Pronounce was solid and after the Piano...Noise, Sounds and Sweet Airs and the Live disc are also nice and from about 94....then he really started losing it. I find Carrington and Enemy Zero just awful. He has many releases...maybe even around 100....i'd stick with mostly stuff before 1992-93....actually AET is nice..if not rehash ideas and that is a later release. On the jazz tip...the Waltz from the self titled Michael Nyman release on Piano in 1981 has Brotsman on sax and it's a noisy mix of jazz and classical music in a form of a waltz. I love the track and the album. check out http://www.michaelnyman.com/discography_complete.asp for everything that is Nyman... mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JoeJanecek@aol.com Subject: internet audio Date: 23 Oct 2000 19:49:13 EDT while not perfect and always subject to change, I do offer a lot of direct feeds off of my page at: http://janecek.com/bitcasters.html some I hope you enjoy... regards joe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 19:13:18 -0400 On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 02:48:27PM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:38:09 +0000 Rick Lopez wrote: > > > > PATTY HEARST, Scott Johnson > > Was it a movie soundtrack? I doubt it. Yes, it was. I have the laserdisc of the film, directed by "Mishima"'s Paul Schrader. BTW, http://www.imdb.com/ is a very good source for film info. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton Date: 23 Oct 2000 18:58:12 -0500 (CDT) Steve Smith wrote: > Now that I've seen a complete list of who's on it, this seems a lot more > compelling, even if it omits the famous bit (on the CD 'Woodstock > Jazz Festival 2') where Braxton sings Konitz's 1959 alto solo from "The > Song Is You" to Konitz backstage. And Konitz doesn't have the slightest idea what it is...I've always loved this clip (which I've only seen on a Branford-hosted video called 'Reed Royalty') if only for the look of childlike glee in Braxton's eyes, though my affection for it was somewhat soured by a quote from Konitz I recently read where he, rather unkindly, jokes about never knowing what in the world Braxton was singing on the many occasions this happened. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: mishima/glass Date: 23 Oct 2000 21:33:02 EDT In a message dated 10/23/00 11:49:28 AM, you wrote: < Mishima? If so, how is it? Is it any good?- i'm not very familiar with glass' output. what i wonder though about "mishima": does it have anything to do with the japanese write yukio mishima?>> yes, it is a soundtrack for an excellent film biography of yuki mishima, available in most good video shops. it is one of glass's best non-opera pieces, in my opinion. (i love the earliest process pieces and the operas, and loathe koyanasquaatsi, both music and film.) steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 21:41:13 -0400 REQUIEM FOR A DREAM-Kronos Quartet (in theatres now...it is brilliant, shocking and beautiful) > From: "StichtingRumor@hetnet.nl" > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:24:13 +0200 > To: Marius Ergo , zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks > > Miles Davis, L'escalier pour l'echafaud > va - Apocalypse Now (not the music on itself, but what it does to the film) > Goran Bregovic - Underground > Goran Bregovic - Black Cat White Cat > Mamas and Papas ao - Chungking Express > Nino Rota - music for most of Fellini's films (Amarcord, Roma, 8 1/2) > Gustav Mahler - Death in Venice > Ligeti, Strauss ao - 2001: a space odyssey > > Theus/Rumor > > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: aaron chua Subject: Fwd: PREVOST Date: 23 Oct 2000 18:42:16 -0700 (PDT) thought i'd forward this from the man himself. > .Dear Aaron > Thank you for note about the preferred pronunciation > of my name. I am not sure > to whom a response from me should be sent. And, it > does not seem to be a matter > of any great importance, but for the record: I am > English. Born in England of > English parents but of French Huguenot background. > The Anglicised version of the > name is not entirely the way the French would > pronounce Prevost (with an acute > accent on the e) , but it is similar. It is more > like PREV-VO . > If this is of any interest to anyone then fine. > > Best wishes > Eddie > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 21:44:16 -0400 yes it is true... > From: "Benito Vergara" > Subject: RE: favourite soundtracks > I believe the "Ned Rifle" to whom the music for "The Unbelievable Truth" and > "Trust" is credited is none other than Hartley himself, but I'm not entirely > sure. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: completism Date: 23 Oct 2000 21:46:24 -0500 Brian Olewnick wrote: > Steve Smith wrote: > > > But here are the artists from whom I've bought virtually every record (as leader, > > at least) and/or would buy them all if money were no object: > > > Dennis Gonzalez > > Back in the late 80's, when there was a splurge of articles on this guy, > I went and bought "Stefan" on Silkheart and...I didn't see what the fuss > was about. I happened to have recently listened again (traversing my > "G's" these days) and I still don't hear anything particularly striking. > What am I missing? Is it a Texas thing, Steve??? Are there other discs > more to the point? Maybe it is, but I don't think so. I caught on to him as a local, yes, but I think his best work stands up quite well. I love Dennis's lyricism, as trumpeter and as composer. The tunes on 'Stefan' are simply really, really good tunes, in my opinion, and some of John Purcell's best playing can be found here. Likewise the followup, 'Namesake,' which featured the return of Charles Brackeen and strong playing from Douglas Ewart and Ahmed Abdullah. The first record that really blew me away was 'Catechism,' which included Keith Tippett, Elton Dean, Rob Blakeslee, Marcio Mattos and Louis Moholo. This one featured especially good writing, from Dennis (especially the tune "Surely Goodness and Mercy (Kwela for Carol)" which appears twice) and also from his longtime collaborator Gerard Bendiks (the fabulously-titled "The Sunny Murray-Cecil Taylor Dancing Lesson"). The next one, 'Debenge-Debenge,' featured a sprawling, brawling double quartet that included Brackeen and Kidd Jordan, as well as Jordan's son Marlon on second trumpet. After that came the somewhat patchy 'The Desert Wind,' with the magnificent "Hymn for Julius Hemphill" as the latest entry in Gonzalez's deeply moving hymn cycle. 'The Earth and the Heart' featured two stellar bands, an East Coast band with Andrew Cyrille, Ken Filiano and British electric guitarist Mark Hewins, and a West Coast band with Filiano and Nels and Alex Cline. But 'Hymn for the Perfect Heart of a Pearl' was the next really extraordinary one, with a band that included Carlos Ward, Paul Plimley and Louis Moholo. And you already know what I think of his last album, 'Welcome to Us,' which I find profoundly beautiful. And these are just the CDs... he also self-released a string of LPs prior, the earliest of which lacked polish and technique but had a certain outsider charm, the later ones (especially 'Anthem Suite' and 'Little Toot') as good as anything since. Don't know what he's been up to since '96, as we fell out of touch a few years ago. The last demo he sent me was a dark electronic dance rhythm affair influenced by the tastes of his teenage son with so may samples he likely could never have gotten clearance for them all (from ethnic music to Nine Inch Nails). (Brian, if you want to borrow any of these, let me know.) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ally McBeal - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies/disc sources Date: 23 Oct 2000 21:48:26 EDT In a message dated 10/23/00 7:08:57 PM, you wrote: <> hi steve, folks like us who are sir peter m d freaks should know most of his collins classics discs are cutouts at berkshire record outlet; broinc.com; as are many euro ecms and a few hat huts. even better are the col legno cut outs, esp the donaueschingen festival sets at times. regards steve koenig n.p.: denman maroney/hans tammen (potlatch) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Drivymovie@aol.com Subject: Re: miles soundtracks (caution) Date: 23 Oct 2000 21:53:33 EDT Stay away from "Dingo"...there isn't really much more I can say about this movie. Dust, -Evan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 20:43:31 -0500 I might as well add my 2 cents in: Some that others have said which I agree on: Twin Peaks (Angelo Badalamenti) Koyaanisqatsi (Philip Glass) Mishima (Philip Glass) The X-Files (Mark Snow) And some others that I really enjoy: Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (Angelo Badalamenti) Blade Runner (Vangelis) - the limited edition original soundtrack, not his reissued one. Hard Boiled (Michael Gibbs) Powaqqatsi (Philip Glass) Thief (Tangerine Dream) Passion/Last Temptation of Christ (Peter Gabriel) The Straight Story (Angelo Badalamenti) The Keep (Tangerine Dream) - the limited edition original soundtrack, not the rerecorded one. And for the sheer cheesiness of them, almost all of John Carpenter's early soundtracks, the best of course being Halloween III. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #136 Date: 23 Oct 2000 22:18:28 EDT In a message dated 10/23/00 7:08:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << SHRADER >> Wrote "taxi driver" and "raging bull" screen plays. thats enough evidence of his worth. ben the lonely Phaedra - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Live Show in Chicago Date: 23 Oct 2000 22:44:28 EDT All are invited to attend the performance of Seven Days of Stockhausen (a local group). We are an electric art noise trio made up of two guitars and electric cello. We are performing at the Empty Bottle on Wednesday night at 10:00. Hope you all can come. Sorry for getting of the subject. Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 22:05:57 -0400 On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 08:43:31PM -0500, Craig Rath wrote: > Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (Angelo Badalamenti) A definite fave of mine (I'm surprised that I forgot to mention it earlier). The album/soundtrack strikes me as somewhat of a love letter to the upright bass, with the instrument prominent through much of it, played by Ron Carter and others. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 23:00:25 -0500 Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 08:43:31PM -0500, Craig Rath wrote: > > > Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (Angelo Badalamenti) > > A definite fave of mine (I'm surprised that I forgot to mention it > earlier). Me, too, and the only reason I didn't mention it is because I kinda felt that the mention of 'Twin Peaks' in my list included both the TV show and the movie. (For that matter, same holds true for 'X-Files.') Hated the 'Twin Peaks' movie itself, though, and this as a seriously sick fan of the TV series, with seriously worn VHS tapes, books, trading cards and coffee mug to show for it. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 23:30:25 -0400 Wow. I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the "Forbidden Planet" soundtrack. The Incredibly strange music book turned me onto that. For the record: Eating in an Indian restaraunt about 6 or 7 years ago, the music was uncontrollably happy (compared to the Indian classical music I was used to) and when I asked the owner what it was, he pulled out an unmarked tape. He said it was some old film soundtrack. He wouldn't give or sell it to me, but he sent me ACROSS THE STREET to an Indian grocery store. I told the lady at the counter (while my wife was buying great spices) what I was looking for and she suggested Kishore Ki Yaaden. That cd has been my most lasting soundtrack to film(s?) that I'll probably never see. You know, both Sayles's Matewan and Koppel's "Harlan County USA" both USE soundtracks well. Oh, and Faster Pussycat, too. And matt's obvious other choices: Uncle Meat, Performance, The Wild Angels, Wonderwall (rhino just released the DVD..), Serge Gainsbourgh's Emmanuelle something or other And stupid questions: 1. Who plays the sax stuff for Bill Pullman in "Lost Highway"? 2. Who are the uncredited interlude musicians in "In the Company of Men" 3. How 'bout that Tenacious D stuff that occasionally pops up on the HBO...good laffs. matt Craig Rath wrote: > I might as well add my 2 cents in: > > Some that others have said which I agree on: > > Twin Peaks (Angelo Badalamenti) > Koyaanisqatsi (Philip Glass) > Mishima (Philip Glass) > The X-Files (Mark Snow) > > And some others that I really enjoy: > > Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (Angelo Badalamenti) > Blade Runner (Vangelis) - the limited edition original soundtrack, not his > reissued one. > Hard Boiled (Michael Gibbs) > Powaqqatsi (Philip Glass) > Thief (Tangerine Dream) > Passion/Last Temptation of Christ (Peter Gabriel) > The Straight Story (Angelo Badalamenti) > The Keep (Tangerine Dream) - the limited edition original soundtrack, not > the rerecorded one. > > And for the sheer cheesiness of them, almost all of John Carpenter's early > soundtracks, the best of course being Halloween III. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Drivymovie@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #136/Raul Ruiz Date: 23 Oct 2000 23:48:57 EDT ...not to mention some other classic Schrader projects: "Blue Collar" (undoubtably one of Richard Pryor's best performances), "Last Temptation of Christ" (screenwriter), and "Hardcore" (although I probably wouldn't put this one in the same category of greatness as the former two). Keeping with the Zorn-related content, has anyone seen any movies by the "ultra-prolific, post-Godardian, Guerilla" filmmaker Raul Ruiz? I really enjoyed the music that Zorn did for his movie "The Golden Boat" (on Filmorks I), and from what I hear he is supposedly the shit. Anyone have any opinions/recommendations? Where do I start? Thanks, -Evan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 23:55:38 EDT i'll make this difficult: -music composed and/or performed for film: Kansas City The Last Temptation of Christ (Passion): Peter Gabriel Night on Earth: Tom Waits Gas Food Lodging: J Mascis -compilations: Mandela (which has some great South African jazz...and some crap) Crooklyn, Vols. 1 & 2 -and in the movies-based-on-the-music album category: Buena Vista Social Club Purple Rain: Prince Big Time: Tom Waits When We Were Kings jeff c. n.p. brad dutz: krin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 23:44:08 -0400 On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 11:00:25PM -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > Hated the 'Twin Peaks' movie itself, though, and this as a seriously sick > fan of the TV series, with seriously worn VHS tapes, books, trading cards > and coffee mug to show for it. Heh, looking at my rack of Twin Peaks books and directory of related files, I can, er, relate. (Not many others can nowadays, so my continually referring to a disliked guy named Bob in the office as BOB shoots right past most people :-]) np: Meredith Monk: Book of Days/Ellis Island (laserdisc) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 15:45:23 +1000 > 1. Who plays the sax stuff for Bill Pullman in "Lost Highway"? Bob Sheppard (don't know who this is, just taking it right out of the cd booklet). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Goryl?= Subject: Re: Favourite Soundtracks Date: 23 Oct 2000 22:00:28 -0700 (PDT) "Passion" by Peter Gabriel (sountrack for The Last Temptation of Christ). Not only is it my favourite soundtrack, it is my all-time favourite album. It's 65 minutes of some of the most moving music I've ever heard. A true 'album', not merely a collection of songs. ~Nick. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Streamline records Date: 23 Oct 2000 22:45:55 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, David Keffer wrote: > A different opinion on the Streamline releases. I think that the Mimir > release borders on terrible. Around about 1986, when Edward Ka-Spel was in > "The Tear Garden" with Cevin Key of Skinny Puppy, I picked up the Tear > Garden eponymous ep and the first full length album. Then 12 years later I > heard Ka-Spel's Mimir lp, "Mimyriad" and I said to myself, "This is the > same thing, only now it's 1998 and, although I thought it was pretty cool > in 1986, it sounds embarrassingly dated now." it really all depends on which mimir album you are referring to. their very first outing (on flabbergast) wasn't anything much to write home about, but i did enjoy it. however, mimiriyad is absolutely astounding with a stellar lineup including jim o'rourke. if i'm not mistaken, mimir is actually christoph heemann's gig. then again, i also enjoy all the tear garden releases, so your mileage may vary... ;) hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: review request and the "whole sound" genre Date: 24 Oct 2000 01:58:34 -0400 I'll second that review request; the concept sounds very intriguing. I saw Hrvatski's Forced Exposure review, too. Pretty typical for him in its semi-clever, semi-useless obscurantism. I think what he meant with the "whole sound" reference was music apart from an instrumentalist or composer paradigm and more into the realm of the texture/feel of actual sound. I.E. not a guy playing guitar but the actual physical sensation of such. He seemed to be implying (to me anyway), in practical terms, that the feedback would be thick and heavy Did that make sense? I'm really tired right now. -Jesse ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:01 AM > > Hello, > > When somebody on the list hears the new Derek Bailey record, "String > Theory" on Paratactile, can you post a review? Thanks. There is an arty > blurb about it posted on the Forced Exposure site that I does not give me a > clear picture of what is going on. > > In fact this blurb refers to something called the "whole sound", as if it > were a sub-genre of experimental music. Anybody hip to the definition of > "whole sound" music? > > David "gotta keep up with the kids' lingo" K. > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Favourite Soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 01:58:21 EDT ngoryl@yahoo.com writes: > "Passion" by Peter Gabriel (sountrack for The Last > Temptation of Christ). Not only is it my favourite > soundtrack, it is my all-time favourite album. It's 65 > minutes of some of the most moving music I've ever > heard. A true 'album', not merely a collection of > songs. One of my favorites as well. "With This Love" is one of the most moving pieces I've ever heard--the oboe is chilling. I wish Gabriel would revisited this type of composition. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: favourite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 00:59:09 -0500 (CDT) - beverly hills cop (just kidding) - pee-wee's big adventure (i can't tell if i'm kidding) - the soundtrack to hitchcock's 'the saboteur', particularly the scene on the statue of liberty ;) - stop making sense (no kidding around here; but it might not count). - 70's porn (the music is the best part) - the george martin portion of 'yellow submarine' (not kidding) - scene transition music from sitcoms and other u.s. tv shows from the 1980's (magnum p.i., a-team, riptide, the fall guy, etc.). half in jest, whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: re: favourite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 01:00:45 -0500 At 12:59 AM 10/24/00 -0500, you wrote: > >- scene transition music from sitcoms and other u.s. tv shows from the > 1980's (magnum p.i., a-team, riptide, the fall guy, etc.). Speaking of which, am I the only one who wishes they would put out a compilation of the best incidental music from CHiPs? From the early seasons, anyway - really great cheesy funk/disco stuff. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 01:15:32 -0500 At 11:00 PM 10/23/00 -0500, you wrote: >> > Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (Angelo Badalamenti) > >Hated the 'Twin Peaks' movie itself, though, and this as a seriously sick >fan of the TV series, with seriously worn VHS tapes, books, trading cards >and coffee mug to show for it. The first time I saw the movie I disliked it as well, but after having read the original unedited script and seeing it a couple more times, it makes a lot more sense and at times is one of the best things Lynch has ever done. I think the problem with it is that for about 95% of the time, it lacks the humor that the series had to cut the tension. Without that, it's just really, really dark. I think a lot of that humor was dropped when the decision to shorten the movie was made, thus eliminating about half the cast or more. Now I just have to wait for them to finally put it and the series out on DVD. I have the VHS versions of both, but am hoping for some serious extras on the DVD versions (such as the Log-Lady intros which accompanied the series during its Bravo runs, and hopefully some of the deleted footage from the movie - there are rumors of up to another 1.5 hours which was cut out). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: KILL ME (now) Date: 24 Oct 2000 14:57:32 CEST I just found out that I have a study trip with my school to Praque which misses the masada gig by a couple of days. I really do want to die.... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Odp: musicians on film Date: 24 Oct 2000 15:09:40 CEST >From: "Marcin Gokieli" > >Hm, maybe you have recorde it? If so we could arrange a trade... > > > Nobody mentioned the outstanding STEP ACROSS THE BORDER (1989) by >Nicolas > > Humbert featuring Fred Frith with contributions by Zorn, Cora, Lindsay, >Iva > > Bittova, Rene Lussier and many others. This weekend a small German TV > > station was broadcasting this movie at 2 in the morning - the time > > avantgarde fans are most active. > > I have no opportunity to copy videos - but it´s still in print and can be purchased (don´t ask where)... Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: more soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 09:26:36 -0400 Errol Morris's: Fast Cheap & Outta Control (Caleb Sampson) Nenette & Bonnie (Tindersticks) Six Days & Six Nights (Michael Nyman) City of Lost Children (Angelo Badalamenti w/ Marriane Faithful) Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: completism Date: 24 Oct 2000 15:30:02 CEST >From: Steve Smith > >But here are the artists from whom I've bought virtually every record >(as >leader, at least) and/or would buy them all if money were no >object: > >Art Ensemble of Chicago >Anthony Braxton >Ornette Coleman >Dave Douglas >Marty Ehrlich >Cecil Taylor >John Zorn obviously we have similar tastes. Some additions of mine where I would have all if possible: Charles Mingus Henry Threadgill Julius Hemphill Marc Ribot John Coltrane Bill Dixon Fred Frith Ken Vandermark Albert Ayler Marion Brown Don Cherry Tom Cora Arto Lindsay Butch Morris Myra Melford Sun Ra David Shea Yosuke Yamashita Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Twin Peaks/Badalamenti soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 10:25:46 -0400 TWIN PEAKS is definitely one of my favourite soundtracks, but I prefer the movie one (FIRE WAlK WITH ME), the Julee Cruise and Jimmy Scott tracks are so haunting and beautiful. Being a fan of Badalamenti, I also have to add WILD AT HERT to the list, especially for those Rubber City (David Slusser) tracks. The BLUE VELVET soundtrack is great, but I think it goes better with the movie, and doesn't work so much for me without it. The LOST HIGHWAY one is also good, but it has too much MARILYN MANSON/RAMMSTEIN stuff, I would have liked more Badalamenti. The sax parts are (as someone noted) by BOB SHEPPARD, and I also don't know who he is, but I checked out the AMG and he has one album (i think). If someone has any information on his work, please let me know. And I have to admit: that track on the LOST HIGHWAY soundtrack was what lead me to JOHN ZORN(!). I started looking for violent sax playing and guess who I ran into? :-) Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. XU FENG - John Zorn (It's the first time I listen to any of Zorn's game pieces ... and I like it!!!!!!!) Gotta listen to Cobra now!!! :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Ultima Vez / Marc Ribot Date: 24 Oct 2000 16:32:47 CEST I´ve heard of this dance theater directed by Wim Vandekeybus with music by Marc Ribot. There is a web site www.ultimavez.com. Has anyone seen this and can give some details? Are any recordings available? Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ethan Subject: Re: Internet Radio Date: 24 Oct 2000 11:09:40 -0400 (EDT) WXYC in Chapel Hill: http://wxyc.org we programmed a lot of tzadik & other fun stuff in the general rotation when I was a DJ there. there should be a recent brian eno phone interview being posted to the web site sometime soon.. plus we were the first radio station in the world to broadcast live on the internet. of particular interest to this list would be broken music on sundays from 3-4pm eastern time. ethan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Noise Date: 24 Oct 2000 11:20:43 EDT Hello All, I was wondering which CD(s) would be best to start off on when trying out some of the noise artists. i was assuming Merzbow because I already own Maldaror (w/patton) and i enjoy that quite a bit. However there is quite a Merzbow discography and I don't really know where to start. Also, if you would recommend a different artist as a starting point, please let me know. I'm looking for a CD that is more than just pretty cool....something that makes me want more, i guess. Thanks for your help.... also....the pronunciation of Merzbow, is it BOW as in "bow wow" or as in "bow tie?" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: digital safecrackers Date: 24 Oct 2000 11:30:44 -0500 in light of the talk around here... write if you want the rest. kg Researchers say they defeated schemes to protect digital music Eds: SUBS 1st, 3rd grafs to fix style on 'copyright' By GARY GENTILE AP Business Writer LOS ANGELES (AP) - A group of researchers claims to have defeated four different technologies being developed to prevent computer users from listening to copyright music for free. Researchers at Princeton University, Xerox PARC and Rice University said they were able to remove invisible security measures placed on four music files by the Secure Digital Media Initiative - a group of 200 music, telecommunications and consumer electronic companies. Any reasonably sophisticated computer pirate intent on illegally distributing copyright music files could do the same, the researchers said. The claim, if true, strikes at the heart of efforts to protect copyrights and prevent people from listening to music for free using technology such as Napster. --- On the Net: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/sip/sdmi/announcement http://www.hacksdmi.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: Internet Radio Date: 24 Oct 2000 12:01:41 -0400 >plus we were the first radio station in the world to broadcast live >on the internet. Or at least tied WREK who started Internet streaming the same day (Nov 7, 1994). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) Subject: completism/musicians on film/jarmusch/ruiz Date: 24 Oct 2000 13:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Hello, ...Rick Lopez asked about the availability of the "Mouthful of Sweat" vid comp. featuring W. Parker, M. Graves, and P. Brotzmann. Checked Atavistic's site and it's not listed. No surprise there. Also looked in the catalogs of a few on-line sources, but nothing there either. I wouldn't say that this vid is so obscure that a fairly diligent search wouldn't turn up a copy or two. Particularly if you have numerous friends in a variety of large cities that could check the stock in indie shops. And I bet somebody would part with their copy. However, I would not. Last note: the quality of this vid is the lowest of any Atavistic title I've viewed, and I've seen a few. Much footage is of live indie rock bands captured on cam-corder. Yr mileage will vary from track to track, natch. ...on the slowly fading subject of musicians on film, i can't believe I almost forgot to mention "Mingus" (1968), directed by Thomas Reichman. It's an hour long b/w cinema varite study that intercuts great live footage of a small band that features Dannie Richmond, Walter Bishop, John Gilmore, and Charles McPherson. I really need to pull my copy out of storage. It's an amazing film that deals with Mingus being evicted from his loft space home by the city of New York. I've never been able to watch this film a lot due to the emotional content (or to elaborate, I've never wanted to get so familiar with this film that I could "just watch" Mingus being raked over emotional coals without being impacted by the experience). Some of the music is stunning, the opening bass solo in particular. Also, where he sings and plays piano is just grand. To me, this film is equally as important a document in dealing with Mingus as the "Beneath the Underdog" book, maybe even more so. ....on the film s/t thread, I'll agree that Jarmusch uses good, often great music. In "Ghost Dog", along with the RZA stuff, he has a bit of Andrew Cyrille and Jimmy Lyons (unless I misread the credits as they moved by). ...last, Evan at ObviousEye@aol.com asked about Raul Ruiz. The guy has been directing since the mid '60's. I've only watched one of his films "On Top of the Whale", a very good poetic slice of comic-surreal cinema that deals in part with the divides between sophisticated and primitive cultures, specifically in regard to language. It's definitely a film that needs multiple viewing to fully "get". His new work "Time Regained", based on the work of Proust, is making the rounds. "Film Comment" magazine thought highly of it. And we can connect "Film Comment" to the list talk about Paul Schrader, because in the latest issue Schrader writes about the rediscovered Budd Boetticher western "Seven Men From Now". ...would love to see Ruiz's "The Golden Boat" with s/t by Zorn. np: Blind Willie Johnson- "The Complete..." disc one nr: selections from Bantam Books "Modern European Poetry" I remain.... Joseph "There's no boundary line to art" Charlie Parker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: completism/musicians on film/jarmusch/ruiz Date: 24 Oct 2000 13:37:47 EDT In a message dated 10/24/00 1:15:34 PM, josephneff@webtv.net writes: << In "Ghost Dog", along with the RZA stuff, he has a bit of Andrew Cyrille and Jimmy Lyons (unless I misread the credits as they moved by). >> nope, that's correct. it's a piece from Something In Return (Soul Note), don't recall which one. all movie long, the lead character pops CDs into his car's CD player. they're almost exclusively Wu-Tang/RZA hip-hop, but near the end, he pops this disc in to drive around to, which I thought was very cool. very good movie, also. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: favourite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 19:43:15 +0200 | - 70's porn (the music is the best part) Yes. I want strongly recommend soundtrack to "Deep Throat" available in ForcedExposure. Real masterpiece And of course music to Russ Meyers moviec Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dmitry elentuck" Subject: Re: Raul Ruiz Date: 24 Oct 2000 13:51:23 -0400 Raul Ruiz has over 90 films behind his belt; unfortunately most of them (especially pre-"Golden Boat" ones) are rather difficult to find. My favorite movie of his is "On Top of the Whale"(1982) ("Shot in five languages (one of them imaginary), this film concerns a European anthropological expedition to Patagonia. The ethnologists set out to study a tribe of Indians which now consists of merely two surviving members who speak a strange language made up of only a few phrases (different meanings are produced by varying the inflections)". It is closely followed by "The Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting"(1978) (screenplay by Pierre Klossowski), "Dog's Dialog"(1977) (short film composed of still shots a la Chris Marker's "La Jetee"), and "Life is a Dream". His latest output has more structured, for the lack of better word, "straight-forward" plots ("Genealogies of Crime", "Shattered Image" and "Time Regained", latter being adaptation of Proust's novel) although "Three Lives and Only Death" still has some disorienting qualities of his earlier films. Hope this helps, Dmitry P.S. If anybody knows where to get "Life is a Dream" on video, I would appreciate the leads. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy Subject: re: favorite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 11:43:51 -0700 Off the top of my head: - Mississippi Burning - The Shining - Angel Heart - Barbarella (anyone know if this exsists on CD?) - Zabriski Point - Betty Blue - Diva - 2001 - Passion == todd == Comfort the disturbed, disturb the comfortable - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: marcel duchamp's "oeuvre musicale" Date: 24 Oct 2000 11:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Since Jon brought M. Duchamp up vis-a-vis Keith Rowe's comments about improvised music's (did Rowe actually use the word "jazz"?) Duchampian epistemological break, here's something marginally related, in ya'll haven't yet seen it: http://www.cdemusic.org/store/cde_search.cfm?keywords=dw101 ---s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: marcel duchamp's "oeuvre musicale" Date: 24 Oct 2000 14:56:20 EDT In a message dated 10/24/00 2:52:19 PM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: << did Rowe actually use the word "jazz"? >> no, I don't think jazz per se has interested Rowe much since he was in Mike Westbrook's band in the sixties. I don't think he used a specific term, we both knew what he meant. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Bang on a can Date: 24 Oct 2000 20:55:27 +0200 Looking for some informations about "Bang on a can" Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 20:59:22 +0200 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Jerzy Matysiakiewicz Aan: Whit Schonbein CC: Zornowska lista Datum: dinsdag 24 oktober 2000 20:00 Onderwerp: Odp: favourite soundtracks > >| - 70's porn (the music is the best part) > >Yes. I want strongly recommend soundtrack to "Deep Throat" available in >ForcedExposure. >Real masterpiece >And of course music to Russ Meyers moviec > > >Jerzy I second the opinion on the music to Russ Meyers movies. What about the music to Betty Pages films? And...er...Mancini? I like the score to 'Touch of Evil' (Orson Welles). Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Fwd: Between The Traditions: Sound of Language/Language of Date: 24 Oct 2000 14:54:37 -0400 I won't be able to make this myself but this sounds like something that would interest other list members. Best, Jason >Between The Traditions: >The Sound of Language/ The Language of Sound > >Hosted by Steve Dalachinsky & Hersch Silverman > >An evening of music and poetry featuring an all-star line-up including >Thurston Moore, Vito Ricci, Matthew Shipp, Lise Vachron, Lorne Mazzacane >Connors, William Parker, Byard Lancaster, Roy Campbell and more. > >Saturday, October 28th, 8pm >at The New York Open Center >83 Spring Street (between Bway and Crosby) > >$9 ($7 members) >info 212.219.2527 Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: favourite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 21:11:10 +0200 Ha, ha, ha. I think that users from behind the former Iron Curtain and from Germany will agree with me that man shouldn't forget about the scores to the DDR movies based on Karol May's books : "Winnetou" "Schatz in die Silbersee" "Chingachgook Die Grosse Schlange" and so on, but I couldn't recall the name of the composer. Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 21:21:55 +0200 Forgot to mention Willem Breuker. He also made some great soundtracks. Jan Luyben (who sometimes forgets things) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Date: 24 Oct 2000 17:50:39 EDT >City of Lost Children (Angelo Badalamenti w/ Marriane Faithful) > >Bob is this movie good? i see the cover often while digging through the shelves at video stores. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: 24 Oct 2000 14:58:43 -0700 On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:50:39 EDT ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: > > >City of Lost Children (Angelo Badalamenti w/ Marriane Faithful) > > > >Bob > > is this movie good? i see the cover often while digging through the shelves > at video stores. This movie is one of the most amazing I have seen in a while. It is techni- cally perfect (where did they get these sets?) and the story has the power to appeal to any age (young like old), without falling in Disney kinddome. No theory to illustrate or obscure message to convey, just a pure pleasure for the eyes and the heart. A movie that operates on the visual side and tickle your fancy (fairly wacky and nightmarish). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: 24 Oct 2000 15:04:20 -0700 >City of Lost Children (Angelo Badalamenti w/ Marriane Faithful) And don't miss its predecessor, _Delicatessan_, which is even better. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: 24 Oct 2000 18:15:06 EDT In a message dated 10/24/2000 2:53:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ObviousEye@aol.com writes: << >City of Lost Children (Angelo Badalamenti w/ Marriane Faithful) > >Bob is this movie good? i see the cover often while digging through the shelves at video stores. ben >> I thought it was beautiful! And I saw it at the Music Box theater in Chicago which added so much to the experience. Before I saw it, a friend felt that it was a film that looked like it had been directed by Tim Burton and written by David Lynch... Unfortunately, Playstation made a video game out of it....... Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: 24 Oct 2000 18:11:00 +0000 on 10/24/00 9:58 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:50:39 EDT ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: >> >>> City of Lost Children (Angelo Badalamenti w/ Marriane Faithful) >>> >>> Bob >> >> is this movie good? i see the cover often while digging through the shelves >> at video stores. > > This movie is one of the most amazing I have seen in a while I concur. I've always dug movies that create a convincing WAY-alternate reality, and this is one of my favorites. Oh, and to the list of S/Ts, -- BALKAN (name of CD)music by phillipe eidel and arnaud devos, for the film BUNKER PALACE HOTEL. I love this music, but I've never seen the film. Anyone? And ***McCabe and Mrs. Miller*** -- LEONARD COHEN. Is this one available on CD? memory, memories, RL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee, Edgar" Subject: Re: completism/musicians on film/jarmusch/ruiz Date: 25 Oct 2000 09:23:28 +1100 Isn't the track used in the Ghost Dog film called Nuba One from Jimmy Lyons, Andrew Cyrille and Jeanne Lee's Nuba? Nuba features a wonderful variety of percussion from Cecil Taylor associate Cyrille, as well as a some lovely camels on the cover. Unfortunately this track is not on the soundtrack which apparently for some contractual problems doesn't have RZA's music from the film that it should have. Edgar NP Peril - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: re: favorite soundtracks Date: 24 Oct 2000 17:47:53 -0500 At 11:43 AM 10/24/00 -0700, you wrote: >Off the top of my head: >- The Shining I can't believe I forgot that one. Launched me into my Penderecki craze. Excellent use of music in a film. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: Godard ---no zorn Date: 24 Oct 2000 19:33:37 EDT sorry this post has no zorn, or other musical, content. could anyone aid me in my quest for good films? there seem to be so few mainstream films (besides Kubrick, Scorsese, etc.) that are worthwhile, so i was thinking about digging into the underworld. obviously a name that comes to mind is Godard, so where should i start with him? what are some others? any help would be appreciated, and if you don't want to bore the list, send correspondence directly to me. oh, one final question: what is the best, cheapest store to buy movies from? online or otherwise. thanks. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow US tour Date: 24 Oct 2000 20:34:11 EDT I think I posted this here a few weeks ago, but now that it's coming up, I wanted to remind people about it. Stilluppsteypa and TV Pow are both laptop trios, from Iceland and Chicago, respectively. Stilluppsteypa have recorded for Ritornell, meme and Fire Inc., and have a collaborative project with Sonic Youth in the works. TV Pow have recorded for BOXmedia and Gentle Giant, as well as touring extensively in Japan, playing with such musicians as Otomo Yoshihide, Taku Sugimoto and Toshimaru Nakamura. They'll be releasing a collaborative CD on Erstwhile in early 2001. October 30, New York, NY @ Tonic - www.tonicnyc.com October 31, New York @ Bard College November 1, Washington DC @ Museum Of Contemporary Art DC w/87 Central www.dc.net/vertical/MOCA.html November 2, Pittsburgh, PA @ Millvale Industrial Theater w/Pineal Ventana, Powder French www.mit.telerama.com November 3, Detroit, MI @ Detroit Contemporary - www.detroitcontemporary.com November 4, Cleveland, OH @ Speak in Tongues - www.speakintongues.com November 5, Chicago, IL @ Deadtech w/Illusion of Safety - www.deadtech.net More Info: Stilluppsteypa - http://www.fire-inc.demon.nl/stilluppsteypa.html TV Pow - http://www.gentlegiantrecords.com/artists.htm# (click on TV Pow) thanks for reading! Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 24 Oct 2000 21:00:32 EDT In a message dated 10/24/2000 4:34:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ObviousEye@aol.com writes: << orry this post has no zorn, or other musical, content. could anyone aid me in my quest for good films? there seem to be so few mainstream films (besides Kubrick, Scorsese, etc.) that are worthwhile, so i was thinking about digging into the underworld. obviously a name that comes to mind is Godard, so where should i start with him? what are some others? any help would be appreciated, and if you don't want to bore the list, send correspondence directly to me. oh, one final question: what is the best, cheapest store to buy movies from? online or otherwise. thanks. ben >> Begotten Leolo Barjo Celine and Julie Go Boating The Cabinet of Dr. Ramirez (Let me know if anyone has ever found this, I lost my dubbed copy years ago) Mod F**k Explosion Typewriter, Rifle, and a Movie Camera (Docu on Samuel Fuller) Any early Warhol films (I A Man, Bikeboy, Kitchen etc etc) Act of Seeing With Ones own Eyes Anything by Joe Christ or Richard Kern - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: marco Subject: re BANG ON A CAN Date: 26 Oct 2000 00:14:47 +1000 boac url http://www.bangonacan.org marco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: " A.VanValin" Subject: Re: Internet Radios Date: 24 Oct 2000 20:12:18 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diego Gruber" To: "Zorn list" > > what are the best radios you've found? http://kalx.berkeley.edu/ Lots of juvenalia but a few good shows. check out Information Overload. http://www.kfjc.org/ Several good ambient/ "difficult" shows. enjoy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: " A.VanValin" Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 24 Oct 2000 20:12:04 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- > could anyone aid me in my quest for good films? > obviously ... Godard...where should i start with him? Hell yes Godard. Check out Alphaville. http://us.imdb.com/Title?0058898 Also: Maborosi http://us.imdb.com/Title?0113725 Je t'aime, Je t'aime http://us.imdb.com/Title?0063152 ( I wouldn't go for completism with Alan Resnais, but this one rocks. Cool Penderecki soundtrack as well) Have fun. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: Internet Radios Date: 24 Oct 2000 23:30:13 -0400 " A.VanValin" wrote: > > http://kalx.berkeley.edu/ > Lots of juvenalia but a few good shows. check out Information Overload. > > http://www.kfjc.org/ > Several good ambient/ "difficult" shows. > I just want to add to this list the station that I dj for and am the folk director of: www.whrw.org. While I'll refrain from editorializing on the content of many of the shows (free format + suburban college kids = far too many "80s" shows and "radio theatre" call in shows for my likin'). I broadcast from 8-930 pm eastern time (as "Blind Uncle Gaspard), and I play "this stuff" mixed with deep hillbilly stuff and british folk and soundtracky stuff and Yoko Ono and so on... Sorry for the plug and the self-promotion, but I sure am desperate for listeners...and somebody asked... matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 24 Oct 2000 23:33:14 -0400 >obviously a name that comes to mind is Godard, so where should i start with >him? Breathless is the obvious place to start since it's not only his first feature but probably his most accessible film. Of films relatively easy to find go with Pierrot le Fou (a good one for a Zornlister), Vivre Sa Vie/My Life to Live, Masculin Feminine and Nouvelle Vague. (Alphaville is also quite easy to get but I find it even less interesting than some of the hilariously impenetrable Dziga-Vertov Group films.) Contempt is one of his best but the currently available video doesn't do it justice; I'd wait for a release of the "restored" version. A bit harder to find but available and worth seeing are Numero Deux, Two or Three Things I Know About Her, Weekend and Helas Pour Moi. My all-time favorite might be Germany Year 90 Nine Zero and don't ever pass up any segments of Histoire(s) du Cinema but those are almost impossible to find. Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: completism/musicians on film/jarmusch/ruiz Date: 24 Oct 2000 23:34:28 -0400 >Unfortunately this track is not on the soundtrack which >apparently for some contractual problems doesn't have RZA's music from the >film that it should have. The DVD has a score-only option if you want the untouched RZA music. Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: Godard ---no zorn Date: 24 Oct 2000 21:00:44 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Lang Thompson > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 8:33 PM > Breathless is the obvious place to start since it's not only his first > feature but probably his most accessible film. Of films > relatively easy to > find go with Pierrot le Fou (a good one for a Zornlister), Vivre Sa Vie/My > Life to Live, Masculin Feminine and Nouvelle Vague. What! No mention of "Band of Outsiders (Bande a Parte)?" That one features one of the most memorable dance sequences outside of an Astaire and Rogers (or Kelly) movie. And since there was a little Hal Hartley thread a while back: it's also a must-see for Hartley fans, since some scenes from "Simple Men" and "Amateur" are homages (okay, maybe cribbed liberally) from "Band of Outsiders..." Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Tim Berne Date: 25 Oct 2000 17:26:36 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C03EA8.BA039A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Zorn-listers, Can anyone tell me what albums Tim Berne has performed on besides Zorn's = "Spy Vs Spy"? Thanks, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C03EA8.BA039A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Zorn-listers,
 
Can anyone tell me what albums Tim Berne has performed on besides = Zorn's=20 "Spy Vs Spy"?
 
Thanks,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C03EA8.BA039A40-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Tim Berne Date: 25 Oct 2000 00:08:03 -0700 (PDT) --- Adam Rock wrote: > Dear Zorn-listers, > > Can anyone tell me what albums Tim Berne has > performed on besides Zorn's "Spy Vs Spy"? http://www.screwgunrecords.com and http://www.wnur.org/jazz/artists/berne.tim/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint Subject: Re: Ghost Dog Date: 25 Oct 2000 09:54:58 +0200 Edgar.Lee@dva.gov.au said: > Isn't the track used in the Ghost Dog film called Nuba One from Jimmy > Lyons, Andrew Cyrille and Jeanne Lee's Nuba? Nuba features a > wonderful variety of percussion from Cecil Taylor associate Cyrille, > as well as a some lovely camels on the cover. Unfortunately this track > is not on the soundtrack which apparently for some contractual > problems doesn't have RZA's music from the film that it should have. What soundtrack do you have? I got tricked into buying the lame-ass "Ghost Dog" compilation, which is really crap except for the killer RZA and Wu-Tang tracks at the end. The rest is generic filler hip-hop/soul with dialogue bits. On the other hand, the actual soundtrack is available only in Japan for some reason... I managed to find a copy but don't have it yet. -- Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: Noise Date: 25 Oct 2000 10:23:32 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "SOUPBEARD" == SOUPBEARD writes: SOUPBEARD> ....the SOUPBEARD> pronunciation of Merzbow, is it BOW as in "bow wow" or SOUPBEARD> as in "bow tie?" I guess the first, since I believe the name Merzbow is adapted from Merzbau (Kurt Schwitters' dadaist architectural construction). An approximation to the German pronunciation would be: MAIRTSbough --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lon Huber Subject: Re: Godard and soundtracks Date: 25 Oct 2000 03:11:48 -0700 Lang Thompson wrote: >Breathless is the obvious place to start since it's not only his first >feature but probably his most accessible film. Of films relatively easy to >find go with Pierrot le Fou (a good one for a Zornlister), Vivre Sa Vie/My >Life to Live, Masculin Feminine and Nouvelle Vague. (Alphaville is also >quite easy to get but I find it even less interesting than some of the >hilariously impenetrable Dziga-Vertov Group films.) Contempt is one of his >best but the currently available video doesn't do it justice; I'd wait for >a release of the "restored" version. A bit harder to find but available >and worth seeing are Numero Deux, Two or Three Things I Know About Her, >Weekend and Helas Pour Moi. My all-time favorite might be Germany Year 90 >Nine Zero and don't ever pass up any segments of Histoire(s) du Cinema but >those are almost impossible to find. Agree with all of this save the comment on ALPHAVILLE. I liked it a lot the first time I saw it, but repeated viewings have revealed ever more subtle layers of odd, disjointed beauty. And the music in it jumps from romantic lyricism to choppy orchestral blasts in a most entertaining way. BAND OF OUTSIDERS is high on my list, too. Regarding soundtracks, Godard's use of music and effects is such that you can run the video with the monitor off, just listening to the audio tracks, for an experience as satisfying as watching the film. Dialogue, fragments of music, readings from books, sound effects, all collide and tumble as freely as any Over The Edge tape. Morricone's soundtracks for A LIZARD IN A WOMAN'S SKIN, GRAZIE ZIA, and the TV anthology DRAMMI GOTICI have been in my CD player at least once a week for the last few months. Ditto Rota's score for Fellini's ROMA. And although I don't know if there's a CD available, the electronic score for Antonioni's RED DESERT is worth close attention if you rent the DVD. Aside from the music in films, I wish DVDs had separate channels for the effects tracks of certain films. The effects track of BLADE RUNNER is an unsung musique concrete masterpiece, in my opinion - put on some headphones and listen to it all the way through without watching the movie some time. Steven Soderbergh's films generally have a very spare and expressive use of effects, as well. And the effects for THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK are a large part of that film's success at creating a whole universe on screen... too bad they never made another STAR WARS films after that one. Lon - Floating Glowing Head + + + + + + + + + + + + + + www.floatingglowinghead.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: and Yoko Ono Date: 25 Oct 2000 07:55:55 EDT In a message dated 10/25/00 2:27:01 AM, you wrote: <> OMG how could i have forgotten for soundtracks, as my pals here have reminded me -- yoko ono's fly --wm breuker's soundtracks, lots, on his bvhhaast label, great stuff --to sir with love (3 versions of title song; no cd available) --the wiz of oz np: yoko one fly love to all steve koenig laFolia.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: Yoko Ono Fly Date: 25 Oct 2000 08:56:31 EDT Yes!! Yoko Ono Fly is one of her best, especially "Don't Count The Waves", "Toilet Piece", and "Mindtrain"...Anyone know how to obtain her films? I know a museum (in new york I think) was handing out DVDs of her films for minumum donations over a thousand or so but I could be wrong.. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: Yoko Ono Fly Date: 25 Oct 2000 09:38:26 -0400 >Anyone know how to obtain her films? I think they were being distributed by MOMA but I've also heard that she's cancelled that and doing distribution herself. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks-porn Date: 25 Oct 2000 10:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Hey guys: Granted this is a music list, but if you figure the *music* is the best part of porn, I think you're missing an important visual element. Ken Waxman --- dekater wrote: > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Jerzy Matysiakiewicz > Aan: Whit Schonbein > CC: Zornowska lista > Datum: dinsdag 24 oktober 2000 20:00 > Onderwerp: Odp: favourite soundtracks > > > > > >| - 70's porn (the music is the best part) _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: correction Date: 25 Oct 2000 10:45:22 -0500 during a recent frenzy of listening to atavistic 'unheard music' releases, we mistakenly wrote off the schlippenbach quartet's 'hunting the snake' as a more traditional, less adventurous release. while it's sax/piano/bass/drum line-up is of a more trod vein than the solo drum or electonic releases on that label, the disc -- which features evan parker, peter kowald and paul lovens -- is anything but pedestrian. it's actually pretty remarkable. this listmember regrets the error. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: favorite soundtracks- Goblin Date: 25 Oct 2000 11:17:40 EDT Anyone into the Euro-horror and action scores by the Italian prog rock group, GOBLIN? Their score for Argento's SUSPIRIA is pretty intense. The group is reuniting for the first time in 20 years and performing in Tarrytown, New York on Nov. 11th (their first ever U.S. appearance)! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 25 Oct 2000 15:55:27 GMT Hello, >Don't know what happened to those who'd actually sent pre-order >money, however. We got our money back and a kind letter explaining that Zorn would probably release it himself on Tzadik and that he has our adresses. ARTHUR_G (more curious about that amazing design than the actual music) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: Goblin gig Date: 25 Oct 2000 12:06:45 EDT Goblin will be guests and performing at CULT CON in Tarrytown, New York (almost an hour outside of NYC). Check out the website- http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/cfvimports/cultcon2000.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: favorite soundtracks- Goblin Date: 25 Oct 2000 12:11:07 EDT Didn't they also do Dawn of the Dead, or at least Argentos edit of it? The stuff I've heard from them is pretty good, though a little dated...Its especially interesting to see the Argento Docu where he is working with them during the editing process of Suspiria and he is waving around his arms during certain moments of the film asking for different types of sounds... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 25 Oct 2000 09:12:30 -0700 On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:55:27 GMT "Arthur Gadney" wrote: > > Hello, > > >Don't know what happened to those who'd actually sent pre-order > >money, however. > > We got our money back and a kind letter explaining that Zorn would probably > release it himself on Tzadik and that he has our adresses. Am I the only one to find such project disgusting? I mean, wasting 100 CD, some with barely a few minutes of music. I always thought this was the kind of project that is fun to think about during a heavy drinking night, but in the morning, trying to recover from the hangover, you would feel embarrassed to even have thought of doing such thing... Isn't ironic that coming from any mainstream artist a project like that would be looked with total contempt, with words like megalomania, self-indulgence flying around? With Zorn and Eye (or Merzbow), thanks to their sticky indie/underground status, it is cool. I like to think that the project was cancelled because Zorn realized how stupid it was. If the music is really that good, let's just put out a 2xCD box with all of it (since I seem to remember that the total duration was no more that a few hours). Is the music becoming so irrelevant that packaging is the only thing left? Patrice (who's not specially environmentally conscious). PS: How much wipped cream on a cake do you need to start to puke? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Franz Fuchs" Subject: RE: favourite soundtracks Date: 25 Oct 2000 18:20:03 +0200 > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jerzy > Matysiakiewicz > Ha, ha, ha. I think that users from behind the former Iron > Curtain and from > Germany will agree with me that man shouldn't forget about > the scores to the > DDR movies based on Karol May's books : "Winnetou" "Schatz in > die Silbersee" > "Chingachgook Die Grosse Schlange" and so on, but I couldn't > recall the name > of the composer. I think that's Peter Thomas, who had a renaissance with the Easy Listening hype. Probably his most famous composition is the one for sci-fi serial "Space Patrol Orion". Besides this he has dozens of film scores under his belt (mainly for B- and C-movies) ranging from reactionary soft-porn, children TV programmes, Edgar Wallace adaptions to "Steiner pt.II". Jarvis Cocker and Pulp used a Thomas sample for the title-track of their latest album "This Is Hardcore". I would rate Thomas as a remarkable craftsman with little reservations against the sometimes dubious ideological background of the films for which he composed his music. Appropriately German magazine "Testcard" titled a feature about him "Beautiful capitalism". Regards Franz Fuchs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 25 Oct 2000 11:21:02 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Am I the only one to find such project disgusting? I mean, wasting 100 CD, > some with barely a few minutes of music. I always thought this was the > kind of project that is fun to think about during a heavy drinking night, > but in the morning, trying to recover from the hangover, you would feel > embarrassed to even have thought of doing such thing... Aw, you're just still sore about the scare you recieved thinking about putting the box into the discography... ;) Paul - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 25 Oct 2000 09:24:48 -0700 On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:21:02 -0500 (CDT) Paul Audino wrote: > > Aw, you're just still sore about the scare you recieved thinking about > putting the box into the discography... ;) Darn! And I forgot about that... I guess I would have solved the issue with something like: "100xCD of screaming and skronking," for fetichists only Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 25 Oct 2000 09:30:50 -0700 On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:21:02 -0500 (CDT) Paul Audino wrote: > > > Am I the only one to find such project disgusting? I mean, wasting 100 CD, > > some with barely a few minutes of music. I always thought this was the > > kind of project that is fun to think about during a heavy drinking night, > > but in the morning, trying to recover from the hangover, you would feel > > embarrassed to even have thought of doing such thing... > > Aw, you're just still sore about the scare you recieved thinking about > putting the box into the discography... ;) And talking about the exact opposite: full relevance of every minute of a CD and highly innovative (both rarely go together): *** - BART: Thomas Lehn, Marcus Schmickler (Erstwhile) Wow, what a record! Just listened to it once but I was hooked with the first seconds and the following ones kept the momentum. How many more like that Jon has in his closet? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 25 Oct 2000 12:11:23 -0400 On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 09:12:30AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Am I the only one to find such project disgusting? I mean, wasting 100 CD, > some with barely a few minutes of music. I always thought this was the > kind of project that is fun to think about during a heavy drinking night, > but in the morning, trying to recover from the hangover, you would feel > embarrassed to even have thought of doing such thing... "Well, I used to be disgusted. Now I try to be amused..." -- E. Costello -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: re: zorn/eye box (plus BART) Date: 25 Oct 2000 10:26:51 -0700 (PDT) --- "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > Am I the only one to find such project disgusting? It's a decoy, Patrice. > With Zorn and Eye (or Merzbow), thanks to > their sticky indie/underground status, it is cool. Two things are funny: 1. The fact that it's---and I'm assuming a lot here---"experimental" music makes its audience (and all the more so its devotees) so much more forgiving of tripe and gristle, precisely because the standard hasn't been lowered....it's been _removed_. (Not exactly true: it's been replaced by a new norm: "I'm listening to experimental music. It's _supposed_ to feel all wrong, or sound _this way_.") So the ridiculous is expected, even required sometimes, because the relationship between the perp and the auditor is sado-masochistic. Our jettisoning of standards (good thing) is not at all the same as a jettisoning of expectations, which serve as the template and antecedent for standards anyhow. I think I'm trying to get at the idea that the TRUST implicit in the experience of "experimental" art---the tolerance of "failure" and the willingness to concede that term, even---can be violated, and it's terrible because we only the spectral remains of morality to articulate this problem; there's the _intuition_ that we're being made fun of, that we're the object of cruelty, that we've been led someplace dark while blindfolded and _left_. I have problems with "the" avant-garde and Dada because of this. A 100-CD set does little to help this trust. (BTW, I think the idea of a 100-CD set is a hoot, more than being disgusting.) I can't imagine anyone buying something like that without eventually getting the feeling that they've been _had_. 2. Leave it to disenfranchised political/ aesthetic "radicals" (avant-gardists, actually) to be great consumers. They know they hate capitalism, they're loath to turn anyone but "the hippest" on to their music, because then it might "get too popular". But they buy everything, just to have it. Isn't the operative word..."fetish"? Collection becomes a surrogate for action. > Is the music becoming so irrelevant that packaging > is the only thing > left? This predicament screams "simulacrum". (A quintessentially "French" idea. ;) > PS: How much wipped cream on a cake do you need to > start to puke? When I was a little kid, many of us would eat the disgusting chalky icing off the birthday cake first, before eating cake (if we would eat the cake at all). But this was at birthdays at McDonald's, appropriately. P.S. The Merzbox still cost less to make than does _any_ music video. Underground music industry, 1. Mass-media-multinational-corporate music industry, 0. P.P.S. Patrice wrote: >And talking about the exact opposite: full relevance >of every minute of a CD and highly innovative (both >rarely go together): >*** - BART: Thomas Lehn, Marcus Schmickler (Erstwhile) >Wow, what a record! Just listened to it once but I >was hooked with the first seconds and the following >ones kept the momentum. It's really shocking just how together Schmickler and Lehn are, and _how much fun_ this music is. My sensibilities tend toward the conservative (cf. my attitude toward Dada), and I find the kind of wild schizoid humor implicit throughout mucxh of this record to be almost knee-slapping. (Is this weird? Doesn anyone else hear this?) It occurs to me that the "glitch" sensibility (if you'll permit me) has everything to do with both technological phenomena AND the human element, I mean using "glitch" as a verb. (You can _now_!) Like the notion of "freaking" a turntable. What I mean: the music is almost surprisingly humane, and humorous to boot. Weird, maybe cruel humor, but nothing that I can't also dig in Thelonious Monk. Patrice is right---there minimal drag on this record. It's a wild friggin ride. >How many more like that Jon has in his closet? We demand that you release the COlogne basement tapes! While you're at it, I'd like a box set of Evan Parker farts.* -----s, cheshire-cat, but unsubtle NP: Muller/Le Quan - VOYELLE LIQUIDE (We DEMAND all four hours! We DEMAND the complete VOYELLE sessions!) NR: The complete works of Karl Marx and Fred Engels, in the only complete American edition, International Publishers. NV: The "complete" Stanley Kubrick on DVD. Wait a minute. Wait a goddam minute! Where THE KILLING? Where's PATHS OF GLORY? Where's....god-da ) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: favourite soundtracks-porn Date: 25 Oct 2000 20:11:00 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: "Ken Waxman" Do: "dekater" ; "zornlist" Wyslano: 25 pazdziernika 2000 16:19 Temat: Re: favourite soundtracks-porn | Hey guys: | | Granted this is a music list, but if you figure the | *music* is the best part of porn, I think you're | missing an important visual element. | | Ken Waxman Any recommendations ??? Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: favourite soundtracks Date: 25 Oct 2000 20:13:14 +0200 | | I think that's Peter Thomas, who had a renaissance with the Easy | Listening hype. Probably his most famous composition is the one for | sci-fi serial "Space Patrol Orion". Besides this he has dozens of film | scores under his belt (mainly for B- and C-movies) ranging from | reactionary soft-porn, Soft-porn in DDR. You must be joking :)) Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: favourite soundtracks Date: 25 Oct 2000 20:19:36 +0200 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: "Franz Fuchs" Do: "Zornowska lista" Wyslano: 25 pazdziernika 2000 18:20 Temat: RE: favourite soundtracks | > DDR movies based on Karol May's books : "Winnetou" "Schatz in | > die Silbersee" | > "Chingachgook Die Grosse Schlange" and so on, but I couldn't | > recall the name | > of the composer. | | I think that's Peter Thomas I've just checked out in IMDB. Scores were made, of course /how can I forget :))/ by Martin Boettcher. Howgh !! Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: favourite soundtracks-porn Date: 25 Oct 2000 14:26:42 EDT Anything by Rinse Dream aka Stephen Sayadian. Odd art porn. (think of men dressed as rats and pencils in a performance art environment) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: Zorn, porn, and soundtracks (Was RE: favourite soundtracks-porn) Date: 25 Oct 2000 11:49:16 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jerzy > Matysiakiewicz > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 11:11 AM > Od: "Ken Waxman" > | Granted this is a music list, but if you figure the > | *music* is the best part of porn, I think you're > | missing an important visual element. > Any recommendations ??? Now this ties in to a message I was going to send (in response to the query about "The Golden Boat" earlier): I've asked this question from the list before, but I'll ask again. I've always been curious about watching Maria Beatty's "The Black Glove," but it looks like I'd have to *buy* the darn video in order to actually watch it. Despite (or maybe because of) the fact that it's a flick I shouldn't see with Granny, is it actually worth owning? Later, Ben p.s. Granted, I don't own anything from the genre, but it's as good an excuse as any to own something. http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 12:05:56 -0700 (PDT) www.harrybrowne.org Vote libertarian...smaller government is better government... ===== -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 12:08:18 -0700 On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Theo Klaase wrote: > > > www.harrybrowne.org > > Vote libertarian...smaller government is better government... Hum... I thought that Bush was Republican. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 14:32:01 -0400 On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 12:05:56PM -0700, Theo Klaase wrote: > > www.harrybrowne.org > > Vote libertarian...smaller government is better government... I doubt that a candidate who can't inspire his followers to keep irrelevant political spam out of musical mailing lists can inspire government to keep out of anything. If I were considering voting for Browne in the first place, this act would have convinced me not to. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 15:39:55 EDT Blame the candidate for a third party using e-mail...come on...Why not go to the Browne Web site and decide for yourself... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 21:48:59 +0200 i am on several lists and the american elections are really becoming a pain in the ass. Is anybody in the usa thinking that there's a rest of the world out there not caring for this shit? Would you mind keep your messages even remotely on topic? ----- Original Message ----- Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 9:39 PM > Blame the candidate for a third party using e-mail...come on...Why not go to > the Browne Web site and decide for yourself... > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 15:07:26 -0400 On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 03:39:55PM -0400, Nvinokur@aol.com wrote: > Blame the candidate for a third party using e-mail...come on...Why not go to > the Browne Web site and decide for yourself... The quality of a leader can be, in part, determined by the actions on his behalf of his followers. If not, he's not a leader. I have been to the Web site. It's quite amusing. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 12:51:12 -0700 (PDT) > > Vote libertarian...smaller government is better > government... Goddam it, I'll build my OWN road! > Hum... I thought that Bush was Republican. > > Patrice. We really do need a second party in this country. ----s, green __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Me" Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 17:17:57 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:48 PM > i am on several lists and the american elections are really becoming a pain > in the ass. Is anybody in the usa thinking that there's a rest of the world > out there not caring for this shit? Would you mind keep your messages even > remotely on topic? > it was made aware in the subject heading of the email that there was no zorn content. further, the subject also gives a good idea what the topic is about. I myself, (though living in the USA, so this may happen to be a tinge biased) am happy to see others interested in the electoral process. its a treat to see that people besides myself taking the upcoming election remotely seriously. i could care less who everyone is voting for, just as long as they have a good reason for it (hopefully the ISSUES come into play). i do not know how it is elsewhere, but Tipper Gore would sh*t herself if she saw some of the zorn artwork. Where is Frank Zappa when we need him the most? dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Bailey/Bennink Post Improvisation Date: 25 Oct 2000 17:07:26 -0400 Hello Zorn-listers, A while back I requested a review of the Bailey/Bennink Post Improvisation cds on Incus and I got several nice replies. Well, I ended up picking up both volumes and have listened many times. Volume 2 features Bailey recording at home and then sending the tape to Bennink to add percussion. Volume 1 is the reverse, with Bennink recording his contribution first. Well, I would like to add my thoughts to the reviews posted earlier. I have heard several members of this list voice the opinion that they preferred solo Bailey to Bailey in improvisational ensembles. (I too have voiced this opinion.) Well, what's nice about Volume 2 of the Bailey/Bennink release is that Bailey is playing solo. The Bennink is added later, and, in contrast to what I think might happen in a real-time collaboration, the playing of Bennink does not (cannot) effect the playing of Bailey (since the Bailey track is already laid down). Naturally, the playing of Bailey does effect Bennink. So, it seems that this format provides the best of both worlds. Bailey in an ensemble but Bailey uninfluenced by the ensemble. (Of course, if you think the purpose of the ensemble is for all the musicians to modify their playing to accomodate the other musicians in the ensemble, then this won't be your cup of tea.) Anyway, the real best thing about Volume 2 is that it features Bailey walking around his house, talking to himself. Apparently Bennink likes birds and, for the first five tracks, Bailey wanders outside, then inside to a window, trying to find a spot where he can play along to the bird chirping outside his window. Like all of Bailey's spoken word with guitar pieces, it's quietly comical. So nice to hear Bailey remarking that the fucking bird won't sing right. On a related note, I am wondering about other releases that feature Bailey speaking to the accompaniment of his guitar. These are the ones I know of: 2000, Post Improvisation Vols 1 & 2 (Bailey/Bennink) INCUS 34 & 35 1997, Playbacks (Bailey et al.), Bingo BIN 004 1997, Root (Bailey/Moore) Lo Recordings LCD11 1995, Tout for tea! (Bailey/Chadbourne) Rectangle L 10" 1994, New Year messages (Bailey), Table of the Elements 7" 1993, II (of) XXVIII (Bailey), Rectangle BA 7" 1987, Drop me off at 96th (Bailey), scatter 02:CD 1986, Darn it! (Bailey), american clave AMCL 1018 1977, Domestic & public pieces (Bailey), Emanem 4001 1973, Incus taps (Bailey), organ of Corti 10 1971, Fairly early with postscripts (Bailey), Emanem 4027 (All are uniquely great except "Root" and "Tout for tea!". Too many are good to say which is best.) Are there others? Thanks. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 17:37:03 -0400 (EDT) As I've threatened on another list, if you Yanks keep this up, I'll be forced to retaliate with a minute dissertation on the Canadian election. (Yup we're going to the polls too. Bet most of you south of the 49th didn't know, couldn't name one [living] Canadian politico and are proud that you don't care). Ken Waxman --- Francesco Martinelli wrote: > i am on several lists and the american elections are > really becoming a pain > in the ass. Is anybody in the usa thinking that > there's a rest of the world > out there not caring for this shit? Would you mind > keep your messages even > remotely on topic? _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 17:29:06 +0000 on 10/25/00 7:48 PM, Francesco Martinelli at fmartinelli@tin.it wrote: > i am on several lists and the american elections are really becoming a pain > in the ass. Is anybody in the usa thinking that there's a rest of the world > out there not caring for this shit? Would you mind keep your messages even > remotely on topic? There also happen to be many US residents who do not care for this shit. hi Francesco, R - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Hell If I Know Date: 25 Oct 2000 14:41:35 -0700 "Where is Frank Zappa when we need him the most?" Three guesses........... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 14:50:44 -0700 (PDT) I could (re)name a mountain. ;) --- Ken Waxman wrote: > Bet most of you south of the > 49th didn't know, couldn't name one [living] > Canadian > politico and are proud that you don't care). > > Ken Waxman __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Me" Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 25 Oct 2000 18:32:45 -0400 Canadian? What's a Canadian? ----- Original Message ----- ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 5:37 PM > As I've threatened on another list, if you Yanks keep > this up, I'll be forced to retaliate with a minute > dissertation on the Canadian election. (Yup we're > going to the polls too. Bet most of you south of the > 49th didn't know, couldn't name one [living] Canadian > politico and are proud that you don't care). > > Ken Waxman > > > --- Francesco Martinelli wrote: > > i am on several lists and the american elections are > > really becoming a pain > > in the ass. Is anybody in the usa thinking that > > there's a rest of the world > > out there not caring for this shit? Would you mind > > keep your messages even > > remotely on topic? > > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: Zorn, porn, and soundtracks (Was RE: favourite Date: 25 Oct 2000 19:58:41 -0400 (EDT) At 11:49 25/10/00 -0700, courageously wrote: >I've asked this question from the list before, but I'll ask again. I've >always been curious about watching Maria Beatty's "The Black Glove," but it >looks like I'd have to *buy* the darn video in order to actually watch it. >Despite (or maybe because of) the fact that it's a flick I shouldn't see >with Granny, is it actually worth owning? Asking the same question to the same list might bring you the answer you already have. You have nice stills of the film on the bleuproductions website, clips taken from the film, the credentials of maria beatty as a filmmaker, interviews, papers and articles disseminated all over the internet. The black glove is very different from the other films of maria beatty (I would say stay away from more recent, more commercial releases) for unfolding in a very dreamy, solipsistic atmosphere. I consider it essential to the understanding of masochism and a very fine piece. It's perhaps not graphic in the way you would expect, and you might find the film short (30 minutes) but this makes me only ponder at what you'd be expecting. On a related note, this is a clear example where the visuals are certainly more interesting than the soundtrack (even if zorn's treatment serves very well the atmosphere of the film). As far as having to buy it, it is indeed unlikely it will still be screened in festivals, as the film is from 1996, but I am almost sure you can find it (for rent) in alternative sexuality boutiques. If you don't live in ny or any other big city, yes, probably you'll have to order it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Crispell Date: 26 Oct 2000 05:51:53 +0200 > hi Francesco, hi Rick, the Crispell/Maltese duo on Black Sain is out, have you seen it? Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: aaron chua Subject: Hermann/The thing/Tarkovsky/Karetnikov Date: 25 Oct 2000 20:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Hi folks, A little late w/ the hermann/soundtrack thread but... There was a recent article on Hermann and the OST of Journey to the Centre of the Earth in FIlm Score Monthly(April/MAy)(the reason i picked it up) I can't say I know much about Hermann; only owning Taxidriver and the recent comp conducted by Salonen but for what it's worth the ten scores recommended by Roger HAll: The day the Earth Stood Still On Dangerous Ground The Snows of Kilimanjaro Beneath the 12 Mile Reef Garden of Evil The Egyptian The trouble w/ Harry The 7th Voyage of Sinbad Vertigo ( which he considers Hermann's best Hitchcock Soundtrack) North By Northwest Plus a mention of ther Twilight Zone elsewhere on the page One question I have is that the article claims the soundtrack for The Thing was written by Dimitri Tiomkin. wasn't it Morricone? On Soundtracks generally a friend of mine is absolutely crazy about the soundr\track to Tarkovsky's Andrey Rublyov. Does anyone know who the composer is? Bit's of it almost sound like tape manipulation.(or maybe just badly mangled master tapes?) also does anyone know anything about the Russian composer Karetnikov? Not a soundtrack composer to my knowledge .I found a Cd of his on sale but still a little price-y. I think it was mainly chamber pieces. regards, aaron __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 26 Oct 2000 05:57:14 +0200 > the subject also gives a good idea what the topic is > about. This demonstrates, if needed, that you are locked in a self-centered frame of reference. I never heard of Harry Browne, from what I know it might have been a book, a movie, a record, and only after reading the message I realized that you are imposing your interest in american politics on the whole list. I hope Ken will start soon discussing Canadian politics, that might be at least something you do not hear about on the news, and I am willing to contribute essays on the political strength of Mr. Berlusconi who at least earned his life as a cocktail piano player for a while. Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: aaron chua Subject: Hermann Date: 25 Oct 2000 21:03:55 -0700 (PDT) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: aaron chua Subject: Hermann Date: 25 Oct 2000 21:07:45 -0700 (PDT) I forgot to include the website listed at the end of the Hermann article: http://hometown.aol.com/MusBuff/page2.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Hermann/The thing/Tarkovsky/Karetnikov Date: 25 Oct 2000 21:18:17 -0700 aaron chua wrote: > > One question I have is that the article claims the > soundtrack for The Thing was written by Dimitri > Tiomkin. > wasn't it Morricone? The movie with the Morricone soundtrack (one of my favorites, BTW) was a remake. Tiomkin did the music for the 1951 version. > On Soundtracks generally a friend of mine is > absolutely crazy about the soundr\track to Tarkovsky's > Andrey Rublyov. Does anyone know who the composer is? > Bit's of it almost sound like tape manipulation.(or > maybe just badly mangled master tapes?) Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov, according to IMDB. Interestingly enough, he's also listed as having worked uncredited on _Solaris_, which is credited to Artemiev. Anybody deconstructed who did what on that? -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong." -- Jaxon np: nr: Miles Harvey, _The Island of Lost Maps_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 26 Oct 2000 01:18:34 -0400 I gotta defend something as cool that box set. As a collector, book artist, cartoonist and designer, I can appreciate cool objects that are self-indulgent, imaginative and unique, as long as it relates to the content. A CD design concept like that could only come out of a scene which puts the emphasis on experimentation before status quo, extreme forms of expression before middle-of-the-road presentation, and doesn't always put commercial or monetary success ahead of artistic vision. Maybe it'd make more sense if one thinks about what the most appropriate form would be would be if one could design anything for the set of a cubist musical, the architecture for a harmolodics concert hall, or the structure of a pop-up book about abstract expressionism. The question needs to be asked about the designer's intent. Does one want to make a statement about the content or just slap it in the most familiar and basic presentation as possible just to get it out there to as many people as possible? Does one want to make a monument to the subject within the object or just a box to pass along the content? I think that this 100 CD Box Set is a monument to two great musicians who deserve an extreme, intricate and absurd form of presentation. I mean, one second of music on one CD and then another 99 CDs collected on a spindle is pretty absurd, funny, intense, unique... just like their music. And it will probably only appeal to a few people, but that doesnt mean it is "disgusting" or a "waste". > Subject: Re: zorn/eye 100 CD box set > > Am I the only one to find such project disgusting? I mean, wasting 100 CD, > some with barely a few minutes of music. I always thought this was the > kind of project that is fun to think about during a heavy drinking night, > but in the morning, trying to recover from the hangover, you would feel > embarrassed to even have thought of doing such thing... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: bart/general CD question Date: 26 Oct 2000 01:43:59 EDT well, thanks for the kind words about Bart, Patrice and Scott. glad you guys= =20 are digging it. a couple of things: <> oh, I've got at least a few, starting with the Otomo/Voice Crack release out= =20 in a few weeks. =20 one interesting note about Bart, it was just recorded in August. I didn't pu= t=20 this in the press release, because it's a little too much of a subjective=20 opinion, but I think that Bart comes the closest of any CD so far to=20 documenting what the MIMEO sounds like now, even though it's only 2 of the 1= 2=20 members. Lehn is the closest thing the band has to a star soloist, and=20 Schmickler's a very strong presence also. the recent double CD release on=20 Grob is pretty good, but it was recorded in late '98.=20 then Scott said: <> I realize you're joking, but it actually brings up a very interesting point=20 for me, whether people tend to prefer a single 60-70 minute CD, or a double=20 CD with 100 minutes priced at 1 1/2 times that of a single disc (obviously,=20 only if there's enough strong material to warrant this, not with every=20 release). my background is that of a fan (and one who's always been a bit of= =20 a sucker for inexpensive double CDs packaged in one jewel box), so it=20 surprised me to learn that most musicians and writers tend to prefer single=20 CDs, mostly because they're so swamped with discs, I think.=20 I would have actually preferred to release La Voyelle Liquide as a 2 CD set=20 around 100 minutes, because there was at least that much great material, and= =20 because I feel like CDs which are 50-55 minutes tend to be more listenable=20 than ones that are 70-plus, but I was outvoted by G=FCnter and Ninh. anyway,= =20 I'm curious to hear what people think about this. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: general CD question Date: 26 Oct 2000 07:17:17 -0400 At 01:43 AM 10/26/00 EDT, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > >I realize you're joking, but it actually brings up a very interesting point >for me, whether people tend to prefer a single 60-70 minute CD, or a double >CD with 100 minutes priced at 1 1/2 times that of a single disc If the material is strong, it should be released regardless of the time. If you had 100 minutes, I'd have preferred two cds. If you had only 20 *strong* minutes (like Plexure), that works too. But I'll admit that the double Tom & Gerry was the first Erstwhile cd I bought, and it was at least partially because it was a mid-priced double. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Look at the Riot I've caused. Date: 26 Oct 2000 04:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Relax folks. I live in the U.S. and I'm just sick of our Governments tactics. *why should the Government be able to say what I can and can not do with my own body. *why should I have 47% of my earnings extorted from me for the price of of going to work, directly benefiting other people. (at what point does it become slavery? or outright socialism) *why should social security be deducted from my pay, when the money goes straight from my check in to the hand of people I don't even care to know. I could use that money to put in a bank with my name on the account, and when I retire, it's there! As it stands now, the system will be bankrupt in the next few years. I really could go on and on. We've got one party masquerading as two. How can you help but to take some sort of action! 47% of my pay for Christ sake! I do not recognize the right to seize my money for any organization or single man. ===== -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: bart/general CD question Date: 26 Oct 2000 09:24:52 -0400 >but I was outvoted by Günter and Ninh. Gee Jon you'll never go far in the record industry if you let the talent make any decisions. LT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Re: Hermann/The thing/Tarkovsky/Karetnikov Date: 26 Oct 2000 09:19:50 -0500 At 20:51 25-10-00 -0700, Aaron wrote: >Hi folks, > >One question I have is that the article claims the >soundtrack for The Thing was written by Dimitri >Tiomkin. >wasn't it Morricone? The first (and by far superior) version of The Thing : from another world did have the Tiomkin sound track; the horrible Carpenter remake may well have a Morricone soundtrack (which would be the only thing that could make me want to see it). Hope this helps. Saturnally, Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, The University of Alabama @ Birmingham Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz): Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio: WUAL 91.5FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 88.7FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3FM Selma/Montgomery/Southern Alabama - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: general CD question Date: 26 Oct 2000 08:07:23 -0700 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > > If the material is strong, it should be released regardless of the time. > If you had 100 minutes, I'd have preferred two cds. If you had only 20 > *strong* minutes (like Plexure), that works too. As far as I can tell, the way it works is, you release the 20 minutes & hang onto the rest for 5 years so you can bring out the "special extended version with 40 unreleased minutes!" & make everybody buy it again. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong." -- Jaxon np: nothing nr: Charles Williams, _The Greater Trumps_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: simon hopkins Subject: riot, indeed Date: 26 Oct 2000 16:09:17 +0100 Theo "www.harrybrowne.org Vote libertarian...smaller government is better government..." I *was* going to say in response to this that while all serious discussion of music necessarily involved politics (ethics being the aesthetics of the future and all that), nonetheless party-political spam had no place here, but then I read this... "*why should the Government be able to say what I can and can not do with my own body. *why should I have 47% of my earnings extorted from me for the price of of going to work, directly benefiting other people. (at what point does it become slavery? or outright socialism) *why should social security be deducted from my pay, when the money goes straight from my check in to the hand of people I don't even care to know. I could use that money to put in a bank with my name on the account, and when I retire, it's there! As it stands now, the system will be bankrupt in the next few years." ...and noted that this was posted under the smug-schoolboy title "Look at the Riot I've caused" and realized that sharing even *virtual* space with a right-wing fuck-knuckle like you made me feel like I needed a shower. So I'll be unsubscribing. Are you sure you didn't mean to subscribe to the Ted Nugent list? Simon -- simon hopkins a state51 | 8-10 rhoda street | london e2 7ef e simon@state51.co.uk t 020 7729 8493 check out ---+motion http://motion.state51.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Look at the Riot I've caused/Canadian politics Date: 26 Oct 2000 11:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Day 3 of the Canadian campaign: Prime Minister Jean Chretien who most commentators figure makes as little sense in French and English is promising more of the same from his Liberals, which have been Canada's "natural governing party" for most of this century. In other words he promises to cut taxes and preserve the social service net. Canadian Alliance leader Stockwell Day is trying for votes in the Ontario heartland, hoping that his tax cutting, get tough on crime, don't work on Sunday (he's doesn't as an evangelical Christian) message will sell elsewhere than right wing Alberta. However he's already misjudged the flow of one lake in trying to illuminate the Canada-US "brain drain". Probably on the ropes, PC leader Joe Clark even turned to campaign help from former leader Brian Mulroney. That ex-PM is universally disliked, most especially for such measures as the goods and services tax (GST) and the North American Free Trade Agreement, the later of which has been hurting local Canadian industries. Bloc Quebecois Gilles Duceppe has launched his party's campaign with TV ads that attack Jean Chretien and downplay the party's independence raison-d'etre NDP leader Alexa McDonough is trying to revive her party's sagging fortunes by pledging to be front and centre for medicare, health care and most other socialist solutions of the past. (Unlike Italian politicians not one has been known to play the piano) Ken Waxman --- Theo Klaase wrote: > Relax folks. I live in the U.S. and I'm just > sick > of our Governments tactics. > > *why should the Government be able to say what I > can and can not do with my own body. > *why should I have 47% of my earnings extorted > from me for the price of of going to work, directly > benefiting other people. (at what point does it > become slavery? or outright socialism) > *why should social security be deducted from my > pay, when the money goes straight from my check in > to > the hand of people I don't even care to know. I > could > use that money to put in a bank with my name on the > account, and when I retire, it's there! As it > stands > now, the system will be bankrupt in the next few > years. > > I really could go on and on. We've got one > party > masquerading as two. How can you help but to take > some sort of action! 47% of my pay for Christ sake! > > I do not recognize the right to seize my money for > any > organization or single man. > > ===== > -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, > hello milky > way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > - > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Look at the Riot I've caused/Canadian politics Date: 26 Oct 2000 10:58:03 -0400 I think perhaps the most pertinent statement on politics on this list would be Zorn's well-known comment to Madeline Albright. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AntCol8@aol.com Subject: the truth of deconstruction Date: 26 Oct 2000 12:01:23 EDT Zorn listers A public service announcement The Truths of Deconstruction: A Zorn-curated festival at Tonic (107 Norfolk St. NY 212-358-7501 - but you know that) somehow connected to the work of Jacques Derrida (Mr. Deconstrution to you) these next three nights (Thursday-Zorn & Cobra, Friday -Anthony Coleman's Blot trio w/ Ted Reichman, Doug Wieselman & Laura Cromwell, Sat.-Elliot Sharp, Sun.-Zeena Parkins (there are also a couple of other events in this mini-festival that I don't know about-call for info). Now you know AC - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Look at the Riot I've caused/Canadian politics Date: 26 Oct 2000 17:07:49 GMT >From: Joseph Zitt >I think perhaps the most pertinent statement on politics on this list >would be Zorn's well-known comment to Madeline Albright. What was that comment? I'd love to hear it. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Renaud Garcia-Fons(No Zorn) Date: 26 Oct 2000 19:32:01 CEST I've recently listened a lot to french bassist Renaud Garcia-Fons' album Alborea, and I think this album is one of the greatest albums I own(At least right now. Next week, who knows?). What I'm wondering is: Does anyone know about other places where he might have added his delicious double bass-tone to the soundscape? I have heard his other solo album Lègendes, but didn't really think much of it, except that maybe it was a little too overrepresented in the bass-wankerish department(Maybe Garcia-Fons has a little TOO prodigeous technique). Anyway, other things he's played on? Other people he's played with? ANYONE???!!! I'M DESPERATE!!!! no really, I'm not.. I'm just curious. - Marius _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: soundtrax Date: 26 Oct 2000 13:48:36 -0400 How could I forget??? Is it too late for a late entry???=20 In steady rotation on the disc player, more so than most of my faves = previously listed, would be Frisell's two soundtracks to Buster Keaton's = silent films. Go West is my favorite (and one of my top faves overall for = Frisell) but High Sign / One Week is great as well. So I see zornsters are big soundtrack fans. No big surprise - there are = so many great soundtracks out there and some of my favorite artists (all = genres) I first heard via soundtracks (or compilation discs but should we = all agree not to start listing those) =3D ) happy listening Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Naked City Date: 26 Oct 2000 14:06:41 -0400 Hello list, I've had Naked City's debut album for a long time and I finally purchased the BLACK BOX. Touture Garden has the fastpaced songs found in the debut, and Leng Tch'e is a very slow brutal track, but are the other NC albums like the Jazz part of the debut? Do we have some other Latin Quarter or Inside Straight in the rest of the NC albums? Thanks Neil H. Enet ------------ NP: PLACEBO - placebo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Me" Subject: Re: soundtrax Date: 26 Oct 2000 14:43:07 -0400 this is somewhat unrelated, but has anyone picked up the soundtrack to the movie THE CELL? i went to the movie (jennifer lopez......come on, how could i not?) i found that the soundtrack was quite interesting. anywho, i picked it up and enjoy it quite a bit. wondering if anyone else feels the same. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 1:48 PM > How could I forget??? Is it too late for a late entry??? > > In steady rotation on the disc player, more so than most of my faves previously listed, would be Frisell's two soundtracks to Buster Keaton's silent films. Go West is my favorite (and one of my top faves overall for Frisell) but High Sign / One Week is great as well. > > So I see zornsters are big soundtrack fans. No big surprise - there are so many great soundtracks out there and some of my favorite artists (all genres) I first heard via soundtracks (or compilation discs but should we all agree not to start listing those) > > = ) > > happy listening > > Bob > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcizon@800.com Subject: Politics, Zorn, and Lou Date: 26 Oct 2000 11:20:10 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03F79.60984C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" First of all, it sounds like our friend is a "Type A" Libertarian as opposed to a "Type B" one. The difference: Type A - Democrats who don't want to pay taxes. Type B - Republicans who want to do drugs. An oversimplification, yes, but I think a little humor is needed in this amazingly off-topic thread. This is also a pretty funny Onion article: http://www.theonion.com/onion3624/libertarian_convention.html Now, ON topic - does anyone know any details for Filmworks IX "Trembling Before G-d"? It's now on all the major e-commerce sites but the Tzadik page hasn't been updated to include it. Also, for those who are "down" with noise, Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" has been reissued by Buddha Records. It has limited "holographic foil" packaging, new liner notes, Lou's original notes, and has been remastered (what good that'll do, I don't know). Naturally, I'm upset about this as I bought it at import prices a year ago. Just my luck - same thing happened with Donald Byrd's "Ethiopian Knights." ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03F79.60984C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Politics, Zorn, and Lou

First of all, it sounds like our friend is a = "Type A" Libertarian as opposed to a "Type B" one. = The difference:

        =         Type A - = Democrats who don't want to pay taxes.
        =         Type B - = Republicans who want to do drugs.

An oversimplification, yes, but I think a little = humor is needed in this amazingly off-topic thread.

This is also a pretty funny Onion article:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3624/libertarian_conventi= on.html

Now, ON topic - does anyone know any details for = Filmworks IX "Trembling Before G-d"? It's now on all the = major e-commerce sites but the Tzadik page hasn't been updated to = include it.

Also, for those who are "down" with noise, = Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" has been reissued by Buddha = Records. It has limited "holographic foil" packaging, new = liner notes, Lou's original notes, and has been remastered (what good = that'll do, I don't know). Naturally, I'm upset about this as I bought = it at import prices a year ago. Just my luck - same thing happened with = Donald Byrd's "Ethiopian Knights."

------_=_NextPart_001_01C03F79.60984C00-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Renaud Garcia-Fons(No Zorn) Date: 26 Oct 2000 20:21:37 +0200 Well, Garcias Fons is a classically taught contrabassist, that's where he got is technique for both bow and pizzicato.=20 About 10 years ago, he started to play jazz and oriental flavoured music with the likes of Claude Barth=E9l=E9my (ONJ 92/93 on Label Bleu), Flamenco Guitarist Pedro Soler ("suite andalouse pour contrebasse et guitare", -Al Sur-), with guitarist G=E9rard Marais ("Free Songs" -Hopi-), accordeonist G=E9rard Matinier.... He plays also with lebanese oud player (now living in Germany) Rabih Abou Khalil (I don't know if that was recorded, at least they toured together).... he plays also with the Italian reedist Gianluigi Trovesi (Round About a midsummers dream -Enja-) Most of his music is acoustic, with spanish and arabian flavours and a a great dose of improvisation. You can find a bio at: http://www.labelhopi.com/english/html/artistes/garcia/garciabiogb.htm or at: http://www.enjarecords.com/GARCIA-FONS.htm an interview at: http://www.labelhopi.com/english/html/artistes/garcia/jazzmagb.htm And if you want to buy records from french artists like Garcia-Fons, the best place should be: fnac.com (or alapage.com). Hope it can help. Pascal (np: Wedding bands from Rajahstan "Disco Bhangra" -Avant-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "First Name Last Name" Subject: Re: Hermann/The thing/Tarkovsky/Karetnikov Date: 26 Oct 2000 12:42:37 -0700 >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:19:50 -0500 >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >From: Moudry >Subject: Re: Hermann/The thing/Tarkovsky/Karetnikov >The first (and by far superior) version of The Thing : from another world >did have the Tiomkin sound track; the horrible Carpenter remake may well >have a Morricone soundtrack (which would be the only thing that could make >me want to see it). You haven't seen the Carpenter version? But the first is far superior and the remake is horrible.... hmmmmmm...... Just curious on what you based your comparison then. zoyd --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Before you buy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Re: Hermann/The thing/Tarkovsky/Karetnikov Date: 26 Oct 2000 14:55:22 -0500 At 12:42 26-10-00 -0700, Zoyd wrote: > >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:19:50 -0500 > >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > >From: Moudry > >Subject: Re: Hermann/The thing/Tarkovsky/Karetnikov > > >The first (and by far superior) version of The Thing : from another world > >did have the Tiomkin sound track; the horrible Carpenter remake may well > >have a Morricone soundtrack (which would be the only thing that could make > >me want to see it). > >You haven't seen the Carpenter version? But the first is far superior and >the remake is horrible.... hmmmmmm...... >Just curious on what you based your comparison then. >zoyd Some days my (excuse for a) brain far outpaces my fingers on the keyboard: I should have typed the word "again" at the end of that parenthetical aside. Saw it once, but have absolutely no memory of the music for the soundtrack (was so bummed out by the remake, I guess). Even though the first version of The Thing" is still a fave, it pales in comparison to John Campbell's short novel (on which it/they is/are based). Sorry for the unintentional confusion. Saturnally, Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, The University of Alabama @ Birmingham Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz): Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio: WUAL 91.5FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 88.7FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3FM Selma/Montgomery/Southern Alabama - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" Subject: NYCentric - Fripp Date: 26 Oct 2000 15:37:59 -0400 Hi Given all the king crimson discussion that goes on, I wanted to drop a note about these free upcoming perfromances. It's at the Winter Garden in the World Financial Center. I saw Stephen Scott's bowed piano ensemble there last night. It's sort of a strange space for serious music - a fair amount of ambiant noise from nearby restaurants, stores, and the finance folks on their way home. Since he's doing soundscapes, he may be able to turn it to his advantage... Jim http://www.worldfinancialcenter.com/calendar/default_page3.html 11/28-11/30 ROBERT FRIPP IN RESIDENCE During this three-day residency, the founding and continuing member of King Crimson improvises his atmospheric SOUNDSCAPES which, like their forerunner FRIPPERTRONCIS, are based on delay, repetition, and hazard. This concert is part of our NEW SOUNDS LIVE series, curated by WNYC's John Schaefer, who has hosted and produced the popular radio series New Sounds since 1982. It will be rebroadcast on WNYC. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustavo Broggi" Subject: RE: Renaud Garcia-Fons(No Zorn) Date: 26 Oct 2000 17:26:44 -0300 There´s another cd called Acoustic Songs, where he plays with guitarrist Gerard Marais. Amazing work!!, quiet but not boring a all. It includes versions of standards such as Monk´s Pannonica, and Misterioso, and a couple of little jewels: Ornette Coleman´s Lonely woman, and Suzanne Vega´s Tom´s Dinner. Imho an important detail is that Renaud Garcia Fons plays a 5 string Bass, which sometimes sounds like a cello, especially when he uses the bow. Best Gustavo -----Mensaje original----- De: Pascal Cortes Para: Marius Ergo ; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Fecha: Jueves 26 de Octubre de 2000 15:22 Asunto: Re: Renaud Garcia-Fons(No Zorn) Well, Garcias Fons is a classically taught contrabassist, that's where he got is technique for both bow and pizzicato. About 10 years ago, he started to play jazz and oriental flavoured music with the likes of Claude Barthélémy (ONJ 92/93 on Label Bleu), Flamenco Guitarist Pedro Soler ("suite andalouse pour contrebasse et guitare", -Al Sur-), with guitarist Gérard Marais ("Free Songs" -Hopi-), accordeonist Gérard Matinier.... He plays also with lebanese oud player (now living in Germany) Rabih Abou Khalil (I don't know if that was recorded, at least they toured together).... he plays also with the Italian reedist Gianluigi Trovesi (Round About a midsummers dream -Enja-) Most of his music is acoustic, with spanish and arabian flavours and a a great dose of improvisation. You can find a bio at: http://www.labelhopi.com/english/html/artistes/garcia/garciabiogb.htm or at: http://www.enjarecords.com/GARCIA-FONS.htm an interview at: http://www.labelhopi.com/english/html/artistes/garcia/jazzmagb.htm And if you want to buy records from french artists like Garcia-Fons, the best place should be: fnac.com (or alapage.com). Hope it can help. Pascal (np: Wedding bands from Rajahstan "Disco Bhangra" -Avant-) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Look at the Riot I've caused/Canadian politics Date: 26 Oct 2000 17:03:16 +0000 on 10/26/00 3:30 PM, Ken Waxman at mingusaum@yahoo.ca wrote: > Day 3 of the Canadian campaign: Thank you Ken. Now we're getting to it. ;-) What the hell is going on in Liberia, anyway??? music, Music, MUSIC, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: animation Date: 26 Oct 2000 18:14:32 EDT if these names mean anything to anybody..please email me personally. jan svankmajer brothers quay christiane cegavske they are all animators ..movies. i want to find more info on them. thanks. ben o. ..forever inquisitive about things not pertaining to zorn. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: animation Date: 26 Oct 2000 19:06:37 EDT In a message dated 10/26/2000 3:16:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ObviousEye@aol.com writes: << jan svankmajer >> I've only seen/own Alice and Faust, as well as a collection of scripts for short films that were never made....... Pretty interesting stuff...... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: bart/general CD question Date: 26 Oct 2000 19:27:53 -0400 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > I would have actually preferred to release La Voyelle Liquide as a 2 CD= set > around 100 minutes, because there was at least that much great material= , and > because I feel like CDs which are 50-55 minutes tend to be more listena= ble > than ones that are 70-plus, but I was outvoted by G=FCnter and Ninh. an= yway, > I'm curious to hear what people think about this. I can't honestly say I've ever taken the total time of a disc into consideration when deciding whether or not to buy it, at least on the long end. I could imagine balking at something sub-30 minutes (except, as Caleb noted, special items like "Plexure" where 20 minutes is just about right), but whether a disc runs 50 minutes or 78 never enters into the equation. btw, I agree on the very high quality of BART. Excellent stuff! Brian Olewnick NP: Carla Bley - Tropic Appetites - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: Look at the Riot I've caused/Canadian politics Date: 26 Oct 2000 19:45:09 -0400 Hello, >Day 3 of the Canadian campaign: Not to forget that the plane of Jean Chretien had to land in emergency because of an electric problem inside... Everybody's ok though so no need to worry... >(Unlike Italian politicians not one has been known to >play the piano) Yes, but I am sure they would learn if it would help them being elected... ok, enough politics for today! Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: completism Date: 26 Oct 2000 20:00:04 +0000 on 10/24/00 3:30 PM, Andreas Dietz at andreasdietz@hotmail.com wrote: >> From: Steve Smith >> >> But here are the artists from whom I've bought virtually every record >(as >> leader, at least) and/or would buy them all if money were no >object: I'm short about 10 Cecil Taylors. Most of the rest revolve (as I do) around the discographies... I've got all Crispells except: Eric Andersen / Istanbul / EMI 1A 064-11-9196-1 (LP & VID) (film score) Various Artists: Sampler A.V. Arts - Vol. 1 (Knitting Factory - MUWORKS) Musiche, No. 13 (Mag & CS) 1992 IT Various Artists: The Texaco New York Jazz Festival Radio Series Live at The Knitting Factory All Ibarra (easy) All Shipp. All Ware except: Abdul Hannan / The Third World / Awareness AH-1 (LP) Andrew Cyrille and Maono: Junction WHY NOT WN-014 STEREO/PA 7157 (LP) JAP All Rivers except: Various Artists / The Drums / impulse! IMP ASH-9272-3 Roots: Salutes the Saxophone, Volume 1 / IOR 7016-1 (LP) 1992 Ger Each and every JoeMorris. All Willi', Parker's except: Jackson Krall & the Associated Big Band / Stork Collective Qrtt: Dreamcatcher / Stork Collective Qrtt: Bindu / Stork Concrete: Musica Jazz Magazine, January 1998 Earl Freeman: The Universal Jazz Symphonette Presents Sound Craft 75 / Anima Jackson Krall: & the Secret Music Society / Stork Jemeel Moondoc: First Feeding / Muntu Jemeel Moondoc: The Evening of the Blue Men / Muntu William Parker/Tom Tedesco: Painter's Autumn / Centering Penck LPs w/ William Parker Amy Sheffer: Where's Your Home? / AM Shee Amy Sheffer: We 'Um / AM Shee Cecil Taylor: Nicaragua: No Parasan / Live in Willisau '83 / Nica All but maybe 6 Maneri (Mat) Just starting with Spearman. Oh, and I have every Cibo Matto. Looks like a damned wants list disguised as discussion to me, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Look at the Riot I've caused/Canadian politics Date: 26 Oct 2000 18:11:48 -0700 > on 10/26/00 3:30 PM, Ken Waxman at mingusaum@yahoo.ca wrote: > Hello, > > Day 3 of the Canadian campaign: > I've always thought that the thing most Americans would least understand about our election process is the fact that it can be done in one month, unlike the US version which seems to start the day after inauguration. Dan (living in that hotbed of Alliance Party ultraconservatism, but proud to be in one of two ridings to have elected an NDP candidate to our provincial gov't) _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustavo Broggi" Subject: RE: Tom's ... Date: 26 Oct 2000 22:21:08 -0300 You are right!!!. In Garcia Fons´s cd is written with double "n" -----Mensaje original----- De: Rob, the Belgian guy Para: Gustavo Broggi CC: Zorn List Fecha: Jueves 26 de Octubre de 2000 17:42 Asunto: Tom's ... >should be Tom's Diner :-) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustavo Broggi: > >Suzanne Vega´s Tom´s Dinner. > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 27 Oct 2000 12:46:00 +1000 << I've had Naked City's debut album for a long time and I finally purchased the BLACK BOX. Touture Garden has the fastpaced songs found in the debut, and Leng Tch'e is a very slow brutal track, but are the other NC albums like the Jazz part of the debut? Do we have some other Latin Quarter or Inside Straight in the rest of the NC albums? >> "Radio" is the closest to what you describe, it's very song-based, however not all jazzy/bluesy like Latin Quarter or Inside Straight... there's some stuff along those lines but then also elements of surf, funk, etc... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: jeanne lee Date: 26 Oct 2000 22:04:23 EDT dear friends, word just came that jeanne lee passed away last night in baja california after experimental treatments for her cancer . the planned benefits to assist the medical costs, including nov 5 at the nyc knitting factory and another to be at st peters church, will still go on, as the family now has both medical and funeral costs to wrestle with. ........steve koenig..... n.p. gunter hampel "that came down on me" LP (birth records) ..........jeanne sings ...."down down down .....................in the water where the boats go... whooosh." n.p. jeanne lee/jimmylyons/andrew cyrille "nuba" (black saint) n.p jeanne lee and gunter hamepl "oasis" horo hdp 33-34 2LP - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Me" Subject: Zorn's compositions Date: 26 Oct 2000 22:46:09 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C03F9E.887DC3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i'm a big fan of zorn's compositions. i'm looking for another, and it = seems that next in line for me is: Duras: Duchamp. i was wondering = if anyone could give me a rundown on what this album is like. i tried = the audio clip on tzadik, and it wouldn't connect for me. i already own = Aporias, String Quartets, and Angelus Novus, and love them all. I = considered "Redbird" but minimalism doesn't seem like the way i wanna = go. so if anyone could give me some feedback on this album or suggest = another album....um....do that.=20 thanks ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C03F9E.887DC3A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
i'm a big fan of zorn's = compositions.  =20 i'm looking for another, and it seems that next in line for me is:  = Duras:  Duchamp.   i was wondering if anyone could give = me a=20 rundown on what this album is like.   i tried the audio clip = on=20 tzadik, and it wouldn't connect for me.  i already own Aporias, = String=20 Quartets, and Angelus Novus, and love them all.   I considered = "Redbird" but minimalism doesn't seem like the way i wanna go.  so = if=20 anyone could give me some feedback on this album or suggest another=20 album....um....do that.
thanks
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C03F9E.887DC3A0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Look at the Riot I've caused. Date: 26 Oct 2000 23:52:58 -0400 Wow, you've *really* made me think. . . -Jesse ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 7:36 AM > Relax folks. I live in the U.S. and I'm just sick > of our Governments tactics. > > *why should the Government be able to say what I > can and can not do with my own body. > *why should I have 47% of my earnings extorted > from me for the price of of going to work, directly > benefiting other people. (at what point does it > become slavery? or outright socialism) > *why should social security be deducted from my > pay, when the money goes straight from my check in to > the hand of people I don't even care to know. I could > use that money to put in a bank with my name on the > account, and when I retire, it's there! As it stands > now, the system will be bankrupt in the next few > years. > > I really could go on and on. We've got one party > masquerading as two. How can you help but to take > some sort of action! 47% of my pay for Christ sake! > I do not recognize the right to seize my money for any > organization or single man. > > ===== > -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 27 Oct 2000 09:49:52 GMT Hey, >Am I the only one to find such project disgusting? I mean, wasting 100 CD, >some with barely a few minutes of music. Who's to say who's waisting CDs? Personally, I think that the ++++100 CDs Evan Parker, Miles Davis and Frank Zappa has released is a serious waste of plastic. But I wouldn't call it "disgusting". I already own *a lot* more than 100 CDs. Why should another 100 be disgusting? >Isn't ironic that coming from any mainstream artist a project like that >would be looked with total contempt, Not by me... Naturally. I believe 100 CDs is actually peanuts. The Guinness Book Of World Records lists a box of the complete works of Mozart, it's close to 200 CDs as a remember. >with words like megalomania, >self-indulgence flying around? Zorn, megalomaniac and self indulgent? Yes, totally! There is plenty of proof of that, even without the 100 CD box. But Eye? >With Zorn and Eye (or Merzbow), thanks to their sticky >indie/underground >status, it is cool. I don't care at all for what's cool or not, and I'm almost offended that you suggest that's the reason why I would buy this box. Further, I actyally don't think Zorn has any indie/underground status at all. Maybe ten or twenty years ago, but now he is really wellknown, he making lots of money, touring the biggest jazz festivals in the world, has a profolic record company or two, etc etc. I haven't met any people I wouldconcider "underground", "hip", "cutting edge" or similiar in a long time, who didn't think Zorn was a bore, actually. >Patrice (who's not specially environmentally conscious). Maybe you should be. ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: re: zorn/eye box (plus BART) Date: 27 Oct 2000 12:35:39 CEST >From: Scott Handley > >NP: Muller/Le Quan - VOYELLE LIQUIDE > >NR: The complete works of Karl Marx and Fred Engels, > >NV: The "complete" Stanley Kubrick on DVD. > hearing Müller/Le Quan while reading Marx/Engels while looking Kubrick - you are really a multi tasking man -:) Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: zorn/eye box (plus BART) Date: 27 Oct 2000 07:21:45 +0000 on 10/27/00 12:35 PM, Andreas Dietz at andreasdietz@hotmail.com wrote: >> NV: The "complete" Stanley Kubrick on DVD. can anyone explain to me why two of the films are NOT wisescreen??? I don't understand, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Me" Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 27 Oct 2000 10:03:15 -0400 Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 5:49 AM > Hey, > > >Am I the only one to find such project disgusting? I mean, wasting 100 CD, > >some with barely a few minutes of music. > > Who's to say who's waisting CDs? Personally, I think that the ++++100 CDs > Evan Parker, Miles Davis and Frank Zappa has released is a serious waste of > plastic. But I wouldn't call it "disgusting". > > I already own *a lot* more than 100 CDs. Why should another 100 be > disgusting? > > >Isn't ironic that coming from any mainstream artist a project like that > >would be looked with total contempt, > > Not by me... Naturally. I believe 100 CDs is actually peanuts. The Guinness > Book Of World Records lists a box of the complete works of Mozart, it's > close to 200 CDs as a remember. > > >with words like megalomania, > >self-indulgence flying around? > > Zorn, megalomaniac and self indulgent? Yes, totally! There is plenty of > proof of that, even without the 100 CD box. But Eye? > > >With Zorn and Eye (or Merzbow), thanks to their sticky >indie/underground > >status, it is cool. > > I don't care at all for what's cool or not, and I'm almost offended that you > suggest that's the reason why I would buy this box. > Further, I actyally don't think Zorn has any indie/underground status at > all. Maybe ten or twenty years ago, but now he is really wellknown, he > making lots of money, touring the biggest jazz festivals in the world, has a > profolic record company or two, etc etc. > I haven't met any people I wouldconcider "underground", "hip", "cutting > edge" or similiar in a long time, who didn't think Zorn was a bore, > actually. > > >Patrice (who's not specially environmentally conscious). > > Maybe you should be. > > ARTHUR_G > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino Subject: Zorn/Eye Box - A Waste? Date: 27 Oct 2000 09:18:42 -0500 (CDT) To add my two cents: The Zorn/Eye box might be considered a waste in the sense that it is not very functional as a piece of music. While it may work as a piece of art (I believe that the the CDs were to be suspended on a string or something like that), certainly you could argue that dividing 2 hours or so of music between 100 CDs has a negative impact on listenability (Man, that 2 minute track that makes up the entirety of disc 87 is awesome!). You could contrast the Zorn/Eye box with the Merzbox which has CDs of reasonable length. Indulgent? Perhaps, but at least it works as a piece of music. As for Miles Davis and Frank Zappa CDs being a waste of plastic...well, to each his own. Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat, Paul Audino psaudino@interaccess.com GROOVE ---------- One Nation - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Viguier Benoit" Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 27 Oct 2000 15:59:52 +0200 All the godard movies are great (because he is the greatest), but you may start with : À bout de souffle (1959) Mépris, Le (1963) Pierrot le fou (1965) JLG/JLG - autoportrait de décembre (1994) A bientôt Benoît -----Message d'origine----- De : ObviousEye@aol.com À : zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Date : mercredi 25 octobre 2000 01:35 Objet : Godard ---no zorn >sorry this post has no zorn, or other musical, content. >could anyone aid me in my quest for good films? >there seem to be so few mainstream films (besides Kubrick, Scorsese, etc.) >that are worthwhile, so i was thinking about digging into the underworld. >obviously a name that comes to mind is Godard, so where should i start with >him? >what are some others? > >any help would be appreciated, and if you don't want to bore the list, send >correspondence directly to me. > >oh, one final question: what is the best, cheapest store to buy movies from? >online or otherwise. > >thanks. > >ben > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: zorn/eye box set Date: 27 Oct 2000 14:55:58 GMT >of > >HE DIDN'T SAY THAT DID HE? SOMEONE SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! MILES DAVIS AND >FRANK ZAPPA.....A WASTE? Well, maybe I did get a bit carried away, but that's just my taste! I never listen to Miles Davis and it's been forever since I listened to Zappa (esp. post Mothers stuff). But of course I can see thay Davis and Zappa (and Evan Parker for that matter) has a big fat place in music history, and I'm happy that their music exists, because I know for a fact that a lot of people enjoy it and so on. But according to my musical taste, nothing or very little, would have been lost had I not heard their works. And if people think it's a waste releasing a CD with only 1 second of music, I mean, come on, where's the none-waste limit? 15 min, 25 min...? What about releasing John Cage's 4:33, that surely must be a waste of CD? Or what about Christian Marclays broken records? Or what about the track on "Kristallnacht" where Zorn writes in the covernotes that people should actually not listen to it? Or... or... ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linares Hugo Subject: RE: Godard ---no zorn Date: 27 Oct 2000 12:02:36 -0300 Hi > All the godard movies are great (because he is the greatest), but you may > [Linares Hugo] Don't want to start a Godard-thread but asumming this French filmmaker as an important personality in the alternative-movie movement, I'd be more careful to make such an affirmation considering the existence of Bergman, Burton, Kiorastami, Kitano, and the list goes on. Just my "filming" tip. Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eriedell@aol.com Subject: Zorn's reeds Date: 27 Oct 2000 11:16:47 EDT I went to see Masada in Charlottesville, VA earlier this semester. During the first set Zorn was changing reeds and threw the old one on the floor. A friend or mine grabbed Zorn's old reed and when we looked at it we noticed that his reed has a notch taken out of the middle of it. Does anyone know why the notch would be there. It doesn't really look cut out, maybe sanded. Or is it just from biting the reed? ~eriedell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ari" Subject: FW: zorn/eye box set Date: 27 Oct 2000 17:16:34 +0200 > And if people think it's a waste releasing a CD with only 1 second of music, > I mean, come on, where's the none-waste limit? 15 min, 25 min...? What about > releasing John Cage's 4:33, that surely must be a waste of CD? Or what about > Christian Marclays broken records? Or what about the track on > "Kristallnacht" where Zorn writes in the covernotes that people should > actually not listen to it? Or... or... > Or...or...or... indeed: isn't this discussion a waste of time? np: "Betty Page danger girl - burlesque music" (a must for all naked city fans) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: David Toop Date: 27 Oct 2000 12:12:45 EDT Does anybody on the list have an email address for David Toop (the WIRE mag guy)? thanks -- skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 27 Oct 2000 09:32:19 -0700 On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:02:36 -0300 Linares Hugo wrote: > > > All the godard movies are great (because he is the greatest), but you may > > > [Linares Hugo] > Don't want to start a Godard-thread but asumming this French > filmmaker as an important personality in the alternative-movie movement, I'd > be more careful to make such an affirmation considering the existence of > Bergman, Burton, Kiorastami, Kitano, and the list goes on. Without falling in the almost obscure: Hitchcock. Who was so good that Truffaut found it smart to use him to dismiss the totallity of the English movie industry (Hithcock being the exception which was supposed to confirm his "rule"). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "matt krefting" Subject: kubrick Date: 27 Oct 2000 12:44:27 EDT <> i may be wrong about this, but methinks that kubrick only wanted some of his films letterboxed, and thought the others were better left pan&scan. i'm pretty sure it was kubrick's decision, tho... m _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Molony Subject: Completism Date: 27 Oct 2000 17:52:54 +0100 Re the completism thread. I can't sleep at night worrying about what's happened to number 40 in the Tzadik Radical jewish series. Do I get to be the Emperor of Anal??? K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: zorn/eye box (plus BART) Date: 27 Oct 2000 11:54:11 -0500 At 07:21 AM 10/27/00 +0000, you wrote: >on 10/27/00 12:35 PM, Andreas Dietz at andreasdietz@hotmail.com wrote: > >>> NV: The "complete" Stanley Kubrick on DVD. > >can anyone explain to me why two of the films are NOT wisescreen??? > >I don't understand, It's because that's the way Kubrick wanted it. He actually filmed those movies in full screen and they were matted to widescreen when played in the theaters. So what you are seeing on the screen in the DVD version is actually more of the screen than you would have seen in the theater. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Kubrick (was something else) Date: 27 Oct 2000 11:08:00 -0700 > From: Rick Lopez > Subject: Re: zorn/eye box (plus BART) > > on 10/27/00 12:35 PM, Andreas Dietz at andreasdietz@hotmail.com wrote: > > >> NV: The "complete" Stanley Kubrick on DVD. > > can anyone explain to me why two of the films are NOT wisescreen??? > > I don't understand, > RL I was told it is because they were originally broadcast in theatres in the same screen ratio as they are on the DVD, and that the disclaimer saying they are reformatted to fit the screen is actually wrong. I, of course, may also be wrong, and hopefully someone with more knowledge of Kubrick will verify my answer. Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus Subject: Yoko Ono & Absolute Ensemble featured in NYTimes Date: 27 Oct 2000 14:20:45 -0400 Two articles of interest from today's New York Times: Yoko Ono: Painter, Sculptor, Musician, Muse http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/27/arts/27KIMM.html Absolute Ensemble: Putting Music Back Together Again [Zorn content] http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/27/arts/27ABSO.html Jeni p.s. I second the recommendation for Maria Beatty's "The Black Glove." A beautiful film indeed. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Westphal Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 27 Oct 2000 12:22:44 -0700 Speaking of Sun Ra, anyone know what's up with Space is the Place? Is it out of print? Does anyone know where I can get a copy? By the way, A Joyful Noise is great. (c) At 08:01 PM 10/20/2000 +0000, Bill Ashline wrote: >I'm afraid that my collection of avant musicians on film is rather >spare. I only have the Vision Festival performance of a couple of years >ago and the three Sun Ra tapes. With the holidays fast approaching, I >thought I'd pick up some more. I've seen that there's a Cecil Taylor VHS >and one of the Art Ensemble of Chicago available, so I think I'll add >those. Does anyone know of others that are readily available and worthy >of commendation? Do you folks buy such tapes? (I suppose for many there >isn't much point with live gigs always available--NYC envy once more). > >Oh and I just got a list from DMG which said that a new Elliott Sharp CD >was on hold at Knit Works because of KF's financial problems. >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: zorn/eye box (plus BART) Date: 27 Oct 2000 16:04:05 -0400 >>> NV: The "complete" Stanley Kubrick on DVD. > >can anyone explain to me why two of the films are NOT widescreen??? At Kubrick's explicit directions. He didn't like letterboxing and prevented any of his films from being released that way on video if at all possible. Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: zorn/eye box (plus BART) Date: 27 Oct 2000 17:00:35 +0000 on 10/27/00 4:54 PM, Craig Rath at fripp@mn.mediaone.net wrote: > At 07:21 AM 10/27/00 +0000, you wrote: >> on 10/27/00 12:35 PM, Andreas Dietz at andreasdietz@hotmail.com wrote: >> >>>> NV: The "complete" Stanley Kubrick on DVD. >> >> can anyone explain to me why two of the films are NOT wisescreen??? >> >> I don't understand, > > It's because that's the way Kubrick wanted it. He actually filmed those > movies in full screen and they were matted to widescreen when played in the > theaters. So what you are seeing on the screen in the DVD version is > actually more of the screen than you would have seen in the theater. Thank you Craig-- Now I can relax and shop. Anyone know where a good price may be found on this? Thanks folks, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Yet another off-topic Q: Pulp Fiction music Date: 27 Oct 2000 17:25:44 EDT This seems like a good place to ask... It's one of those very well known (I remember first hearing it as a junior high kid in the early '70s) guitar instrumentals, but I have never been able to connect it with a title. An aural scan of the Pulp Fiction soundtrack CD came up empty, so it seems it is one of those tunes that made the movie but not the CD. The tune starts just as Vince/Travolta is tasting Mia/Thurman's five-dollar shake while at Jack Rabbit Slims. What's the name of this tune??? Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: XMudhoneyX@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn's reeds Date: 27 Oct 2000 17:52:20 EDT In a message dated 10/27/2000 11:21:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Eriedell@aol.com writes: << I went to see Masada in Charlottesville, VA earlier this semester. During the first set Zorn was changing reeds and threw the old one on the floor. A friend or mine grabbed Zorn's old reed and when we looked at it we noticed that his reed has a notch taken out of the middle of it. Does anyone know why the notch would be there. It doesn't really look cut out, maybe sanded. Or is it just from biting the reed? ~eriedell >> My guess would be that, while playing, perhaps from biting, he casually broke it. That's why he changed. . . . :[] <~~fake smile - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Instrument Date: 27 Oct 2000 18:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Hi, I was just watching the documentary film "Instrument" about the band Fugazi and thought I'd mention it, since some films and musicians on film have been discussed on the list recently. The film itself is okay, but it made me wonder what list-members here think of the band. Personally, I'm impressed that they have stuck to their guns in not only staying independent, keeping their ticket prices low, and selling their CDs for less than they could get, but also that they've still managed to keep going and be successful. Their music is quite good too, and I have a lot of their stuff. Anyway, just wondering, because they really seem to handle themselves more as some of the artists discussed on this list do than as the rock/punk band they "are". And I've never heard of anyone else that sells their CDs at a price well below what would be normal. ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Instrument Date: 27 Oct 2000 21:44:28 -0400 At 6:53 PM -0700 10/27/00, Ryan Novak wrote: >Hi, > >it made me wonder what list-members here >think of the band. Great live (and a cheap night out!), and I'm a total sucker for the choppy guitar playing... -Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: soundtrax Date: 27 Oct 2000 19:00:05 -0700 At 2:43 PM 10/26/00, Me wrote: >this is somewhat unrelated, but has anyone picked up the soundtrack to the >movie THE CELL? i went to the movie (jennifer lopez......come on, how >could i not?) i found that the soundtrack was quite interesting. anywho, >i picked it up and enjoy it quite a bit. wondering if anyone else feels the >same. I have the Cell on order, but I really enjoyed the score while watching the film. I dig pretty much anything by Howard Shore, especially when he's working with David Cronenburg. His score to "Scanners", which I raved about the last time this subject came up on the list, remains an all-time fave, and one of the spookiest pieces of music I own. I've also been listening to the score to "Fight Club" a lot today, by the Dust Brothers. Very cool, low key, sometimes lo-fi, electronic stuff, and it's great to hear a Dust Bros. production without having to listen to the likes of Beck. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Kubrick (was something else) Date: 27 Oct 2000 21:57:31 -0400 >I was told it is because they were originally broadcast in theatres in the same screen ratio as >they are on the DVD, and that the disclaimer saying they are reformatted to fit the screen is >actually wrong. Sorry but this isn't correct. Kubrick often used a technique common up to the 90s called soft matting which is where the images are shot full-frame with the intention that the theatre will matte out the extreme top and bottom to create a widescreen image (or rather a 1.85 image which has been standard since around the 60s, wider film ratios generally require anamorphic or "squeezed" images). In other words the film is meant to be widescreen and the filmmaker(s) never expect anyone to see the tops and bottoms. If you ever see a boom mic in the top of a film shot that's nearly always due to a projection error of improperly masking the image. Soft matting has become less and less common due to such factors as decreasing projection standards, the ability to control what's seen on a video release, etc. (To make this more confusing there's a recent format called Super 35 which allows the director to film a full image and then use part of that for either a widescreen or a full-frame image. It has drawbacks including excessive grain and the increased potential for indifferent composition but James Cameron uses it almost exclusively.) The basic point is that most of Kubrick's films were not only released widescreen, they were intended to be released that way. So to be close to the theatrical release the home video and DVD releases should be letterboxed but are generally full-frame at Kubrick's request and there's been a lot of seemingly endless and generally inconclusive debate about why. Some people claim that he actually wanted them to be released in the older 1.37 ratio (which is what most films from the 20s-50s were in, aka Academy ratio) but made compromises for theatrical release and then realized his vision on video. Some that he simply liked the full-frame better and others just that he was something of a contrary person. It's unlikely that any of this will be settled but the ideal solution is that each DVD should have both full-frame and letterboxed versions. (Welcome to the wonderful world of film buffdom where arguments about aspect ratios and running times never end--in some cases I've even had discussions with fellow researchers about something as seemingly simple as releases dates that lasted for a couple of years.) Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: soundtrax Date: 28 Oct 2000 13:13:55 +1000 > I've also been listening to the score to "Fight Club" a lot today, by the > Dust Brothers. Very cool, low key, sometimes lo-fi, electronic stuff, and > it's great to hear a Dust Bros. production without having to listen to the > likes of Beck. I finally got around to seeing the film the other day, and noticed a quite interesting version of the yiddish song Chiribim, sort of hip-hop-ish but at the same time in the realm of muzak. I don't think I saw it listed in the credits though, is it on the soundtrack cd? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Instrument (fugazi/punk/the Ex) Date: 27 Oct 2000 23:10:18 -0700 (PDT) --- Ryan Novak wrote: > Hi, > > I was just watching the documentary film > "Instrument" > about the band Fugazi ...The film itself is > okay, but it made me wonder what list-members here > think of the band. [snip] Not being much the punk fan, I still really like Fugazi and think their newer stuff is at least as interesting as the early 13 SONGS ep material; lots of fun, wish I'd been with it as a teenager. But in the interest of topicality---not a strong suit of mine, but still---I might also mention The Ex, another fiercely independent, also-preachy band whose ties to hardcore-free-improv reduce the degrees of separation with Zorn. I kind of enjoy their concept-album (?)/ punk opera (!?), JOGGERS AND SMOGGERS, which is anything but hit-the-bar-chords, plus awful lot of guest spots by famous free improvisors. Even better (IMHO) is the fab AND THE WEATHERMEN SHRUGGED THEIR SHOULDERS, featuring Tom Cora (direct Zorn connection)----a very chunk-chunky record. Finally, I like a really new one (1999?), STARTERS ALTERNATORS, best of all. The lyrics of their songs tend toward the obvious, but the music still seems raw and fun, if a little bit self-conscious. Hann Bennink once toured with these guys (as their drummer, BTW). Ah yes, a closer Zorn connection: seems like one or two Ex members have a side project on Tzadik. _Finding_ topicality on-list has now become the challenge...I rather prefer it this way! Let Purpose be a guest! -----s, total punk dilletante NP: Thomas Lehn, FELDSTARKEN (Furious electro-snuffling; lightspeed changes, kaleidoscopic. Truly sick. Frustrating. Exhilarating.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerd Heinlein Subject: Re: Renaud Garcia-Fons(No Zorn) Date: 28 Oct 2000 08:58:40 +0200 (MET DST) > > And if you want to buy records from french artists like Garcia-Fons, the > best place should be: fnac.com (or alapage.com). Try `Les Allume's du Jazz' - they sell many of the French indie labels (at FF 99.- per CD). They don't have a web presence, but you can e-mail them at all.jazz@wanadoo.fr . (Their snail mail coordinates are 5 rue de Charonne, 75011 Paris, France Tel: 0140219065 Fax: 0140218230 ) They mail listings two or three times a year. Apart from being a customer who finds them very reliable and satisfactory, I have no connection with this outfit. G.Heinlein > Pascal - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Hodge Subject: Re: Raul Ruiz Date: 28 Oct 2000 10:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Facets Video (www.facetsvideo.com) offers the following Ruiz films: 1. Genealogies of a Crime Raul Ruiz 1997 This unusual drama stars Catherine Deneuve as a defense attorney representing a client who murdered his aunt, a child analyst who predic $79.98 2. The Golden Boat Raul Ruiz 1990 This quirky, funny and violent film combines the antics of a homeless, compulsive assassin named Austin, who is desperately in love with $59.95 3. Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting Raul Ruiz 1978 One of the most important films of the seventies, The Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting began as a documentary on writer Pierre K $59.95 4. Life Is a Dream Raul Ruiz 1986 "If Raul Ruiz wrote novels or poems, he would be a literary celebrity on the short list for the Nobel Prize," said Georgia Brown in T $59.95 5. On Top of the Whale Raul Ruiz 1982 Shot in five languages (one of them imaginary), this film concerns a European anthropological expedition to Patagonia. The ethnologists $59.95 6. Shattered Image Raul Ruiz 1998 Promoted as Raul Ruiz's first "mainstream" film, this odd and intriguing feature is far from a commercial sell-out. Instead, it's a prov $19.95 $24.98 7. Three Lives and Only One Death Raul Ruiz 1997 Marcello Mastroianni in a wonderful, touching and often funny performance as the dissolute husband in Raul Ruiz's inventive, immensely e $89.95 On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, dmitry elentuck wrote: > Raul Ruiz has over 90 films behind his belt; unfortunately most of them > (especially pre-"Golden Boat" ones) are rather difficult to find. > > My favorite movie of his is "On Top of the Whale"(1982) ("Shot in five > languages (one of them imaginary), this film concerns a European > anthropological expedition to Patagonia. The ethnologists set out to study a > tribe of Indians which now consists of merely two surviving members who > speak a strange language made up of only a few phrases (different meanings > are produced by varying the inflections)". > > It is closely followed by "The Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting"(1978) > (screenplay by Pierre Klossowski), "Dog's Dialog"(1977) (short film > composed of still shots a la Chris Marker's "La Jetee"), and "Life is a > Dream". > > His latest output has more structured, for the lack of better word, > "straight-forward" plots ("Genealogies of Crime", "Shattered Image" and > "Time Regained", latter being adaptation of Proust's novel) although "Three > Lives and Only Death" still has some disorienting qualities of his earlier > films. > > Hope this helps, > > Dmitry > > P.S. If anybody knows where to get "Life is a Dream" on video, I would > appreciate the leads. > > > - > Chris Hodge Coordinator, SunSITE@UTK [W] 865.974.7505 Customer Technology Support [H] 865.986.6939 Division of Information Infrastructure University of Tennessee, Knoxville [F] 865.974.2622 2339 Dunford Hall [E] hodge@ns.utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37996 USA [U] reconstructive surgery - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Hodge Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 28 Oct 2000 10:43:12 -0400 (EDT) I'm very fond of Aki Kaurismaki's films, esp. for their soundtracks. -c On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: > sorry this post has no zorn, or other musical, content. > could anyone aid me in my quest for good films? > there seem to be so few mainstream films (besides Kubrick, Scorsese, etc.) > that are worthwhile, so i was thinking about digging into the underworld. > obviously a name that comes to mind is Godard, so where should i start with > him? > what are some others? > > any help would be appreciated, and if you don't want to bore the list, send > correspondence directly to me. > > oh, one final question: what is the best, cheapest store to buy movies from? > online or otherwise. > > thanks. > > ben > > - > Chris Hodge Coordinator, SunSITE@UTK [W] 865.974.7505 Customer Technology Support [H] 865.986.6939 Division of Information Infrastructure University of Tennessee, Knoxville [F] 865.974.2622 2339 Dunford Hall [E] hodge@ns.utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37996 USA [U] reconstructive surgery - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Hodge Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 28 Oct 2000 10:50:13 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Lang Thompson wrote: > Weekend and Helas Pour Moi. My all-time favorite might be Germany Year 90 > Nine Zero and don't ever pass up any segments of Histoire(s) du Cinema but > those are almost impossible to find. k Histoire(s) du Cinema has been released on CD, audio only (perversely), with still images. I think it is one of thegreatest films ever made. Germany is also rare and wonderful, and Weekend has been one of my favorites since I first saw it almost 25 years ago. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: miles of ... parker Date: 28 Oct 2000 11:44:25 EDT In a message dated 10/27/00 12:18:04 PM, you wrote: <> yeah he did. despite that i plunked down a hunnerd yday in a compulsive box-frenzy (i was originally planning to get the zorn/eye thingie ages ago) for the miles/coltrane and the new supremes 4cd set with the ltd ed [unnumbered] bonus live disc), i confess i always like miss ross better than miles. both arrogant assholes, but i never liked miles' (trumpet) tone; the emma kirkby of jazz... thin, no vibrato... tho i like kirkby. slowly growing on me somewhat... as for both sets, given the 'deluxe' boxes they're in, why the hell couldnt they preoop the original labels too. arrggh as for zappa, the mothers stuff was brilliant until it became sophomore cheechnchong stupidness for (immature) kidz. that doesnt negate his brilliant stuff; just the need to acquire all. after weasels, all ya really need is the one song "montana" and a few bootlegs and the guitar only stuff. as far as being a completist, when wkcr did their evan parker marathon, i confess i did not sleep those three days, cassetting the whole thing with alarms making me up every 45 minutes to flip or change the tape. now evan is more profilic than james brown in the early 70s. stil, i want it all. hell, i even replay the 60m conversation i had with evan abt native american culture and art. he has some unreleased stuff collabbing with native amer musicians. lost when the nato label became lost. steve koenig LaFolia.com; JazzWeekly.com n.p. : Jeanne Lee & Archie Shepp/ west wind label-> might as well be called bootleg cuz it is - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffrey Zima Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 28 Oct 2000 09:19:59 -0700 I can't believe it !! another libertarian - card-carrying member since 1994. "Z" Theo Klaase wrote: > www.harrybrowne.org > > Vote libertarian...smaller government is better government... > > ===== > -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 28 Oct 2000 16:08:13 -0400 >Histoire(s) du Cinema has been released on CD, audio only (perversely), Has anybody heard this? I've been tempted to buy it just because the rights issues with the original videos will probably prevent any official release (if you've seen them you'll understand why). Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gabriel Lichtmann" Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V3 #145 Date: 28 Oct 2000 15:35:43 -0300 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:32:19 -0700 > From: "Patrice L. Roussel" > Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn > > On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:02:36 -0300 Linares Hugo wrote: > > > > > All the godard movies are great (because he is the greatest), but y= ou may > > > > > [Linares Hugo] > > Don't want to start a Godard-thread but asumming this French > > filmmaker as an important personality in the alternative-movie moveme= nt, I'd > > be more careful to make such an affirmation considering the existence= of > > Bergman, Burton, Kiorastami, Kitano, and the list goes on. > > Without falling in the almost obscure: Hitchcock. Who was so good that > Truffaut found it smart to use him to dismiss the totallity of the Engl= ish > movie industry (Hithcock being the exception which was supposed to conf= irm > his "rule"). > > Patrice. Let=B4s not forget Orson Welles, who I think was the greatest (and biggest, hah) filmmaker there ever was. I am still amazed by his films af= ter seeing them hundreds of times, especially by "Touch of Evil", which, by t= he way, works better without the Henry Mancini score at the beggining. And I have to disagree with Hugo, althoug I love many of the filmmakers y= ou named I think Godard ranks higher, even higher than Bergman (which, as my fellow countrymen on this list know, is an argentinian passion as big as soccer). I think this whole film thread is loosely Zorn related, since the ma= n himself has expressed a big love for films. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J Loud" Subject: Re: soundtrax Date: 28 Oct 2000 20:34:21 -0400 > I dig pretty much anything by Howard Shore, especially when he's > working with David Cronenburg. His score to "Scanners", which I raved about > the last time this subject came up on the list, remains an all-time fave, > and one of the spookiest pieces of music I own. I've been looking for that soundtrack for sometime. Do you have the original LP or do you have it on some compilation of horror themes ( I thought I saw it on one of those). Curious ? J Loud - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: soundtrax Date: 28 Oct 2000 18:09:15 -0700 At 8:34 PM 10/28/00, J Loud wrote: >> I dig pretty much anything by Howard Shore, especially when he's >> working with David Cronenburg. His score to "Scanners", which I raved >about >> the last time this subject came up on the list, remains an all-time fave, >> and one of the spookiest pieces of music I own. > >I've been looking for that soundtrack for sometime. Do you have the original >LP or do you have it on some compilation of horror themes ( I thought I saw >it on one of those). Curious ? > >J Loud > >- It's on a CD called "Dead Ringers:Symphonic Suites from the films of David Cronenberg", on Silva Screen, catalog # FILMCD115, released 1992. Was still in print about a year ago, because a friend was able to order it then. It combines Dead Ringers, The Brood and Scanners, all by Shore, and is all pretty worthwhile. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Re: miles of ... parker Date: 28 Oct 2000 21:16:16 EDT In a message dated 10/28/2000 10:45:29 AM Central Daylight Time, Acousticlv@aol.com writes: << as for zappa, the mothers stuff was brilliant until it became sophomore cheechnchong stupidness for (immature) kidz. that doesnt negate his brilliant stuff; just the need to acquire all. >> Why do many people think Zappa's "good" stuff stopped with the mothers? I have yet to purchase a Zappa album with all bad songs (and I have about fifty-five). The "cheechnchong stupidness for (immature) kidz," as you refereed to it, I'd consider more satire. In Bobby Brown off "Shiek Yourbouti" there is not one line that is not tongue in cheek. The majestic synth horns under the words "Oh God I am the American Dream." Or listen to Wet-T-Shirt night off "Joe's Garage." The final line is "Isn't what life's all about" (I may have screwed it up a little but you get the jist). And a lot of his Synclavier music (Meets the Mothers of Prevention and Jazz from Hell) is often instrumental. Other then some titles ala G-Spot Tornado and Porn Wars (both are amazing tunes) there is nothing very childish about that music. And the Yellow Shark album is amazing. I do see that Zappa music changed since the Mothers but if he kept making Weasels or even Uncle Meets I wouldn't need so much of his music. I love both the early stuff and the later stuff. I let it complement each other instead of compare or set a standard. Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com Subject: thurs tonic? Date: 29 Oct 2000 01:52:24 EST can anyone offer a review of thursday's cobra at tonic? who was playing? and what was the "deconstructionist" theme all about, if anything? J - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Sigur Ros Date: 29 Oct 2000 21:21:45 +1030 Hi there, Just wondering if anyone here has heard of this Icelandic Group, I = picked up theri name form a issue of the Wire, and have downlaoded a few = tracks from Napster, and its really great stuff, very atmospheric. Case "Alma Matters" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Sigur Ros Date: 29 Oct 2000 11:12:05 -0000 Their web-site at www.sigur-ros.com tells you most of what you need to know, with sound samples. I've heard them compared to My Bloody Valentine crossed with the Coctea Twins. They've released two "proper" albums and a remix album. I recommend their latest album "agaetis byrjun" , which has not long been released in England, but has been out in Iceland for over a year. Their first album does not have the keyboard player, so sounds different, but has the towering "Hon Jord" on it. The "Ny Battery" single is worthwhile also - 20 minutes of songs/atmospherics which turn into a scary prog beast at the end. I've seen them three times, and they just get better and better. Last time I saw them was at the Union Chapel - a very atmospheric venue. Added to their usual four-piece sound (drums, usually with mallets/bass/organ/guitar, often with a violin bow) was a string quartet who fleshed out the songs on the album to great effect. Their second set was all new stuff, and was so beautiful I nearly cried. Can't wait for the new record. If'n when they come to your town, drop everything. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 10:51 AM Hi there, Just wondering if anyone here has heard of this Icelandic Group, I picked up theri name form a issue of the Wire, and have downlaoded a few tracks from Napster, and its really great stuff, very atmospheric. Case "Alma Matters" - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Ruiz Date: 29 Oct 2000 11:50:55 GMT Someone mentioned that the director of "The Golden Boat" Paul Ruiz (not sure about spelling and title) was concidered "post-Godard". What would that be? As far as I understand, Godard's main idea was the destruction of film itself, untill only the empty screen was left. How does a film maker go beyond that? ARTHUR_G (no big film expert, I know!) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: Sigur Ros Date: 29 Oct 2000 09:35:47 -0500 Hello, >I recommend their latest album "agaetis byrjun" , which has not long been >released in England, Wasn't it released on August 14th? I haven't had a chance to listen to it completly yet, but there are some very good songs on it. Some others are not as powerful though... Anyway, if you like music with a lot of emotions and some bands in this whole "post-rock" thing (I hate this word!) like mogwai and godspeed you black emperor! (even though they are anything but a "post- rock" band in my opinion), chances are you will like Sigur Ros. I still prefer gybe! but that's another story... Tschuss, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Cardew/The Great Learning Date: 29 Oct 2000 09:45:40 -0500 Does anyone have an accurate personnel listing for either the original recording on DG (just re-released on Organ of Corti) or the 1981 additional track on the re-release? The liner notes mention only a few composers who were present. I thought I heard, for example, a voice that sounded a lot like Julie Tippetts in Paragraph 7. That piece, btw, strikes me as being a possible influence on some sections of Keith Tippetts' "Septober Energy". Also, does anyone have an opinion on the work of Hugh Shrapnel (great name), one of the composers who appears? Thanks, Brian Olewnick NP: Perlon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: miles of ... parker Date: 29 Oct 2000 10:16:14 EST I agree, I think its just too easy to dismiss all post original Mothers stuff. I mean, if you want to hear good, more than just-competent playing from a band you'd almost have to venture past - not that I don't love the original Mothers albums. I pretty much like it all, as well. -matt mitchell In a message dated 10/28/00 8:16:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, User384726@aol.com writes: << Why do many people think Zappa's "good" stuff stopped with the mothers? I have yet to purchase a Zappa album with all bad songs (and I have about fifty-five). The "cheechnchong stupidness for (immature) kidz," as you refereed to it, I'd consider more satire. In Bobby Brown off "Shiek Yourbouti" there is not one line that is not tongue in cheek. The majestic synth horns under the words "Oh God I am the American Dream." Or listen to Wet-T-Shirt night off "Joe's Garage." The final line is "Isn't what life's all about" (I may have screwed it up a little but you get the jist). And a lot of his Synclavier music (Meets the Mothers of Prevention and Jazz from Hell) is often instrumental. Other then some titles ala G-Spot Tornado and Porn Wars (both are amazing tunes) there is nothing very childish about that music. And the Yellow Shark album is amazing. I do see that Zappa music changed since the Mothers but if he kept making Weasels or even Uncle Meets I wouldn't need so much of his music. I love both the early stuff and the later stuff. I let it complement each other instead of compare or set a standard. >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: sainkho sountrack Date: 29 Oct 2000 10:33:01 EST hi gang i was listening to a jazz disc and heard a riff and then suddenly i remembered why it was so familiar; perhaps of my favorite instrumental sounds track (save two vocal tunes) trouble man, by marvin gaye. also- just out from leo- i havent heard it yet- a sound track called 'tenemos' with three vocalists- sainkho namtchylak, shelley hirsch, and catherine bott. havent played it yet, but im expecting a lot. yrs steve koenig n.p.: satleh (tzadik) since im not going to tonic's klezmer brunch today - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Ruiz Date: 29 Oct 2000 11:00:53 -0500 >What would that be? As far as I understand, Godard's main idea was the >destruction of film itself, untill only the empty screen was left. Sorry but that's not Godard. He was given to slogans like "end of cinema" but this was more a conceptual ground clearing; if anything he was aiming at repressively conventional cinema, what in France was called the tradition of quality and in the US would generally be Oscar winning films. (There have been a few empty screen-type filmmakers: the Lettrists (before Godard generally), Tony Conrad's flicker films, some of Brakhage's work, some Fluxus, and perhaps in a roundabout way early Warhol: about an hour in "Empire" might as well be empty.) Not only has Godard been incredibly prolific but he's always promoted his favorite filmmakers so it's clear he has no real desire for destruction or emptiness (he's no nihilist). Rent any of his films to get an idea: some are certainly better than others but I'm not aware of any that are atypical (except possibly "Letter to Jane" which you won't find anyway). As for Ruiz, he's picked up, intentionally or not, some elements of Godard's practice: prolific filmography (Ruiz sometimes does two or three features a year), inexpensive shooting habits, alternation of work on film and on video, a refusal/inability to separate "high" and "low" culture, a quirky political consciousness, a fascination with signs (in the semiotic sense though neither are academic filmmakers), even some sense of exile (Ruiz from Chile, Godard more complexly but he's a Swiss citizen). But Ruiz is clearly no imitator since you'd never confuse their work. Ruiz has a stronger narrative sense though it's so bound up with doubles and dreams that it's just as arbitrary/unsettled as Godard's. (You can get a good sense in the witty English-language schlock "Shattered Image" though the best Ruiz I've seen is "Geneaologies of a Crime." Also worth checking out is the accessible "Three Lives and Only One Death" (based on a Hawthorne story that's one of my all-time favorites" and the cryptic "On Top of the Whale." One of the easiest to find is also one of his worst "The Golden Boat." If you ever get a chance for "Manuel on the Isle of Wonders" don't pass it up.) It's also impossible to imagine Godard recognizably adapting Proust. Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content... Date: 29 Oct 2000 11:18:02 -0500 (EST) Gee, I woulda thought 1984 would been your key date. Ken Waxman --- Jeffrey Zima wrote: > I can't believe it !! another libertarian - > card-carrying member since 1994. > "Z" _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Evan Parker & Ghost in the Machine Date: 29 Oct 2000 12:05:47 -0500 Seeking opinions on Evan Parker's recordings with a supposedly electroacoustic ensemble called Ghost in the Machine. How does this compare with his EA Ensemble recordings on ECM? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) Subject: Re: Ruiz/Godard Date: 29 Oct 2000 12:32:18 -0500 (EST) Hello, ...I'll agree with Lang Thompson that it is impossible to imagine Godard adapting Proust. JLG's "King Lear" is probably the best example of what the guy can do to completely disconnect from the subject matter/theme of an already existing artwork (though "First Name: Carmen" also applies). "King Lear" completely abandons narrative in it's "storytelling" about JLG's difficulties in making the movie. This theme mingles with his original idea of "King Lear" in modern times with William Shakespeare Jr. the Fifth struggling to interpret the original work. It's a difficult, rewarding work that has become one of my favorites. I'd also venture to say that it's the most avant-garde oriented film to have anything resembling a star cast. Burgess Merideth, Molly Ringwald, Woody Allen. If you get a chance, definitely see it. ...Ruiz's "Genealogies of a Crime" is playing a few times this month on the Sundance Channel if anyone's interested. I am. ...my favorite Godard quote is from "Le Petit Soldat" "Photography is truth, and cinema is truth twenty-four ties a second" np: Phi Ochs "The War is Over. The Best of..." nr: Drawn and Quarterly Vol. 3" I remain.... Joseph "There's no boundary line to art" Charlie Parker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: ~~~~~~> GYBE Date: 29 Oct 2000 19:41:12 +0100 Ok, I napstered, now tell me the story. What has GYBE to do with Pink Floyd :) ? |-----Original Message----- |From: Mathieu | |I still prefer gybe! but that's another story... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Evan Parker & Ghost in the Machine Date: 29 Oct 2000 14:08:55 EST In a message dated 10/29/00 12:03:14 PM, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: << Seeking opinions on Evan Parker's recordings with a supposedly electroacoustic ensemble called Ghost in the Machine. How does this compare with his EA Ensemble recordings on ECM? >> there are two CDs, I have the first on Leo Lab, not the newer one on Ninth World. Ghost In the Machine is a Danish quartet, primarily piano, bass, drums, and electronics. the electronics are supplied by Martin Klapper, who has a superb duo CD on Acta with Roger Turner, which I'd recommend over this disc, which is cool, but not essential. how does it compare to the Parker ECM discs? well, it's not Parker's group, he's just sitting in with an established band (together since 1987). also, there's no live processing, which is what the ECM CDs are all about. oh, and it's not rendered much less listenable by a production ethos which smooths out all the rough edges. whoever recommended the new Howard Riley reissue on Emanem, Synopsis (John Thomas and Steve Koenig, if I recall correctly), thanks! a really, really nice record, the best thing I've heard from Emanem in quite some time. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Sigur Ros Date: 29 Oct 2000 20:14:10 -0000 > >I recommend their latest album "agaetis byrjun" , which has not long been > >released in England, > > Wasn't it released on August 14th? Time flies, etc.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction Date: 29 Oct 2000 22:09:32 GMT >Subject: the truth of deconstruction >The Truths of Deconstruction: A Zorn-curated festival at Tonic (107 Norfolk >St. NY 212-358-7501 - but you know that) somehow connected to the work of >Jacques Derrida (Mr. Deconstrution to you) Hi, I'm new to the list, and have just started getting into the music of John Zorn thru his connection with Bill Laswell, whom I feel is one of the most important artists in contemporary music. So I was wondering if this festival and the work of Derrida were somehow connected to Laswell's deconstruction projects (Panthalassa, Lost In The Translation, Emerald Aether). Also I have heard rumors that Laswell will next be doing a trilogy of Zorn deconstructions, using the music of Naked City, Filmworks, and Masada as the sources. Anyone else know anything about this? Peace Out! Tom NP: Bill Laswell 'Panthalassa' _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction Date: 29 Oct 2000 19:25:07 -0500 >festival and the work of Derrida were somehow connected to Laswell's >deconstruction projects (Panthalassa, Lost In The Translation, Emerald Don't be misled by the word or even by any claims by the musicians. Deconstruction in the philosophical sense (ie Derrida, De Man, etc) doesn't translate to music. It relies too much on actual language, a deferral of meaning and a speech/writing dichotomy. This is even more confused by the number of people who have poorly understood any of this but insist on applying it anyway (for example, DJ Spooky's weak grasp of philosophy). The best way to get into it would be Derrida's "Writing and Difference" (and "Acts of Literature" for more literary form) along with Jonathan Culler's book as a gloss. And it takes a long time to grasp even the fundamentals, esp if you're not coming from a philosophy background. LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: the truth of deconstruction Date: 29 Oct 2000 17:53:40 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Lang Thompson > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 4:25 PM > Don't be misled by the word or even by any claims by the musicians. > Deconstruction in the philosophical sense (ie Derrida, De Man, > etc) doesn't > translate to music. Nonetheless, the liner notes to "Aporias" sound awfully close to Derrida's book of the same name -- death as the possibility of impossibility, and Zorn's creative force somehow bridging that impasse. In any case I wouldn't doubt that Zorn *does* understand deconstruction -- at least not in the same way as Woody Allen does in "Deconstructing Harry." =) Later, Ben np: bach, "the well-tempered clavier book 2" (gould) http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction Date: 30 Oct 2000 04:25:02 GMT >From: Lang Thompson >Don't be misled by the word or even by any claims by the musicians. >Deconstruction in the philosophical sense (ie Derrida, De Man, etc) doesn't >translate to music. Not to digress too much on this topic, but Derrida was never opposed to seeing his work applied to other forms, including art, and he was much interested in the cultural reception of "deconstruction" as such, a term that was not in any way foregrounded in his first book but was rather privileged by later critics. >It relies too much on actual language, a deferral of >meaning and a speech/writing dichotomy. Derrida never "dichotomized" speech and writing as such. He saw writing as primary and as setting the conditions of possibility for speech. >This is even more confused by the >number of people who have poorly understood any of this but insist on >applying it anyway (for example, DJ Spooky's weak grasp of philosophy). Well, I would say that Spooky has embraced Deleuze much more than Derrida. A good cult/critic would take Spooky to task for appropriating a certain kind of philosophical rhetoric as a legitimizing rhetoric for his own art, raising the status of his art by such an appropriation. And the same criticism could be leveled against Laswell, Zorn, and the Mille Plateaux artists especially. On the other hand, a good cult/critic would also see such appropriation as a necessary integration of diverse areas in order to enter the question of modernity. Spooky is certainly no Derrida, but he's no slouch either, and his interview with Manuel De Landa was rather compelling IMO. As for Laswell, the seeing of his remixing projects as deconstructive was rather in the spirit of Derrida's particular and idiosyncratic readings of the history of philosophy. On the other hand, Laswell's appropriation of vacuous "Burroughsisms" (and I don't mean to suggest that I find Burroughs vacuous) is perhaps the most unfortunate fact of his self-publicity. >The best way to get into it would be Derrida's "Writing and Difference" >(and "Acts of Literature" for more literary form) along with Jonathan >Culler's book as a gloss. And it takes a long time to grasp even the >fundamentals, esp if you're not coming from a philosophy background. Well, deconstruction has no "fundamentals" as such, nor is it a procedure or a method as Derrida has written constantly. And it isn't as incomprehensible or impossible to understand as many say. I'd say the best road would be Derrida himself, as in "Points," a collection of interviews. His piece on the tape recorder is brilliant, and his castigation of the NY Review of Books is a stellar exercise in what Christopher Norris would call "tu quoc polemics." (BTW Norris is a much better secondary source than Culler). BTW I very much enjoyed and appreciated you explanations of various aspects of film aesthetics. Quite interesting. Oh and any poststructuralist worth his or her salt would never associate deconstruction with a grand conception of "the truth" as implied by the title of the performance in question. Only with certain "truths," manufactured though they are. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 30 Oct 2000 04:42:17 GMT >From: Matt Laferty >Eating in an Indian restaraunt about 6 or 7 years ago, the music was >uncontrollably happy (compared to the Indian classical music I was used to) >and when I asked the owner what it was, he pulled out an unmarked tape. He >said it was some old film soundtrack. He wouldn't give or sell it to me, >but >he sent me ACROSS THE STREET to an Indian grocery store. Good choice. Indian cinema soundtracks are hilarious but not nearly as funny as watching them being performed in the films. The kitsch is the most redeeming "quality" of Bollywood cinema. Yes, "uncontrollably happy," an apropos phrase. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: ~~~~~~> GYBE Date: 29 Oct 2000 23:55:10 -0500 Hello, >Ok, I napstered, now tell me the story. What has GYBE to do with Pink Floyd >:) ? It depends on who you ask... Personally, I don't see a lot of similarities. Of course, both bands play (usually) long songs that are instrumental (mainly for Pink Floyd). Also, both bands put the music in the front and not the image of the members. However, gybe! has taken the concept further by according very few interviews: less than 20(?) in the last two years for a band who toured three times both in Europe and in North America during this period, maybe even four in Europe, I can't remembe exactly... A few weeks ago, I introduced a frind of mine to the band. He listened to it and saw a lot of similarities with _Wish Your Were Here_. Also, I've heard that the chord progression in "Blaise Bailey Finnegan III" was quite similar to the one in "Welcome to the Machine". I don't remember this last one so I really can't say... On the other hand, gybe! music is much more powerful. Some members have a punk background and you can feel it, not really hear it though. Their music is more based on raw emotions. There is also a social conotation that comes from their titles, the projections during their live shows and their politic/ social opinions they often state. In fact, they almost caused a riot during their last show in Ireland because the way security was arrassing kids sitting between the stage and the barrier. A few days ago in Vancouver, they clearly stated that they were not aware that the audiance would be frisked by the secutiry before entering the venue and this would have nver happened if they had knew itbefore. These are definitely examples of how they reject auority when it deals with repression, etc. They also care alot about the prices they have to charged. Last March, they played three benefit shows in a very small venue (300 persons) in Montreal called L'X. Believe it or not, the price was 5$ per tickets... and this is Canadian dollars! Very few bands of this status would ask 5$ for a show... They alsums are not so expensive also; I paid 16$ for _lift your skinny fists like antennas to heavden_, their recent double LP. If my memory serves me right, Pink Floyd tickets were not less than 40$ last tme they came in Montreal. Of course, the venue was bigger and they carry a lot of "visuals", but still... Thanks for reading, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Ruiz/Godard Date: 29 Oct 2000 22:15:16 -0800 Joseph Neff wrote: > > ...my favorite Godard quote is from "Le Petit Soldat" > "Photography is truth, and cinema is truth twenty-four ties a second" Which of course reminds me of Jim McBride's _David Holzman's Diary_, which takes that line as a spoken epigraph and then proceeds to demonstrate that it is also a lie, twenty-four times a second. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong." -- Jaxon np: Company Flow, _Funcrusherplus_ nr: Charles Williams, _The Greater Trumps_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: SCHRADER and SMITH Date: 29 Oct 2000 23:06:47 -0800 Philippe Dupuis wrote: > > i must agree that the MISHIMA music is really good. what is the film > about and how good is SHRADER (sp?) i've only seen AFFLICTION and > thought it was pretty good. Usually at least watchable (except for the execrable _Hardcore_) and often brilliant. _Mishima_ is one of his best. > what kind of music is used in HEAVEN & EARTH MAGIC? > does anyone have it out there, i've been looking for it with no luck. It's available (NTSC only) from Mystic Fire Video (http://www.mysticfire.com/ -- click on the Catalog and then on Film; just going to "Harry Smith" only brings up _Early Abstractions_ (also essential I might add) for some reason). The soundtrack is not really "music" (well, perhaps by some definitions); it's more a collection of sound effects which are combined and recombined according to, um, Harry's process, in the same manner as the cutouts. One of my personal top ten films; impossible to consider the soundtrack separately. (The films on the _Early Abstractions_ tape are accompanied by a fairly sleepy piece by Teiji Ito, btw (i usually turn the sound down & choose something else); 16mm prints from the early 70s have a butt-spliced collection of beatles songs; when he was resident at Naropa during his last years he would sometimes project them accompanied by a Butthole Surfers record, just to demonstrate that at *some* point, *anything* would make some sort of synchrony with the images.) -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong." -- Jaxon np: Current 93, _Faust_ nr: Charles Williams, _The Greater Trumps - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks Date: 30 Oct 2000 10:24:08 GMT >Fargo - Carter Burwell Is it just me, or does some of this sound remarkable similiar to the song which Naked City used to cover, from a Japanese gangster movie called "Graveyard of the Brotherhood"? I'd be surprise if Burwell knew about that music, but still the melody is almost the same. ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction Date: 30 Oct 2000 07:06:19 -0500 At 04:25 AM 10/30/00 GMT, Bill Ashline wrote: > >Spooky is certainly no Derrida, but he's >no slouch either, and his interview with Manuel De Landa was rather >compelling IMO. Is this available online somewhere? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction Date: 30 Oct 2000 12:26:07 GMT >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" > >Spooky is certainly no Derrida, but he's > >no slouch either, and his interview with Manuel De Landa was rather > >compelling IMO. > >Is this available online somewhere? It was originally here: http://www.djspooky.com/articles/delanda.html but I see the interview has been pulled, though the accompanying short book review remains. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: musicians on film Date: 30 Oct 2000 12:29:46 GMT >From: Chris Westphal >Speaking of Sun Ra, anyone know what's up with Space is the Place? Is it >out of print? Does anyone know where I can get a copy? > >By the way, A Joyful Noise is great. I bought mine at Kim's Video in NYC. I think it's still available direct from Rhapsody Films or perhaps Evidence. Try those if the chains can't get it. Superb 70's prototype blaxploitation kitsch. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: books on musique concrete Date: 30 Oct 2000 12:49:26 GMT Are there any good books available on musique concrete? Thanks. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: theex Date: 30 Oct 2000 10:44:37 -0500 scott handley said: Ah yes, a closer Zorn connection: seems like one or two Ex members have a side project on Tzadik. kletka red? or is my brain, or my collection, missing something? kg np - multiphonic ensemble::cirque - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Evan Parker & Ghost in the Machine Date: 30 Oct 2000 08:32:20 -0800 (PST) --- "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > Seeking opinions on Evan Parker's recordings with a > supposedly > electroacoustic ensemble called Ghost in the > Machine. How does this > compare with his EA Ensemble recordings on ECM? Most of the tracks are pretty interesting, with slippery, chorus-soaked electric bass and Euro-free-improv percusson (small sounds, big crashes, scuttling, "playing the kit", ringing bell-like attacks), and weird stuff from Clapper's amplified toys. (I'd love to hear Clapper with Voice Crack!) There's lots of acoustic piano in the Schlippenbach vein (I identify a certain type of free playing with him, but that might be incorrect thinking; it has to do with the patterns and harmonies). An mbira even surfaces on one piece. As Jon pointed out, it's neither essential electro-acoustic, nor essential Parker, but I'm glad I have it; the album is remarkably diverse from one track to the next, maybe more so than, even a Schlipenbach Trio record. I'd be very interested to hear about the new GIM+EP (not on leo), as well as any recording by the band alone. ----s NP: Voice Crack, INFRA-RED __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 30 Oct 2000 08:57:13 -0800 On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:49:26 GMT "Bill Ashline" wrote: > > Are there any good books available on musique concrete? Thanks. I would guess that Pierre Schaeffer's TRAITE DES OBJETS MUSICAUX is a good start. The Bosseur brothers also wrote a very good book on electroacoustic music. If I remember well, there is a good coverage of Studio d'Essais and GRM. I don't think that there is a book entirely dedicated to Musique Concrete (and for a good reason since it's true spirit did not survive the creation of eletronic music in Koln in the early 50's). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: the deconstruction of truth Date: 30 Oct 2000 17:58:07 GMT >From: "Me" >To: "thomas chatterton" >Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:23:52 -0500 > >hello, i'm relatively new to the list myself, and am interested in getting >into some of bill laswell's material. i was wondering if you had any >suggestions, seeing as how his discography is quite extensive. Certainly, Laswell's discography is extremely daunting, with over 500 recordings to his credit! I will offer a few suggestions, mainly titles where he is an active player (as opposed to production, deconstruction, etc.) There's a good discography to be found at: www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093/disc.html There is also a Laswell discussion group there that is just getting underway. Here are my suggestions: Painkiller (with Zorn & Mick Harris): Execution Ground Massacre (with Fred Frith): Killing Time Material: Memory Serves Last Exit (with Sonny Sharrock, Ronald Shannon Jackson, Peter Brotzmann, Laswell's 'dream band'): Headfirst Into The Flames Laswell/Brotzmann: Lowlife Arcana (Tony Williams' last session, with Pharoah Sanders, Buckethead, Graham Haynes, Nicki Skopelitis): Arc Of The Testimony Anton Fier: Dreamspeed Paul Bowles: Baptism Of Solitude (great ambient sounds for Bowles' readings) Praxis: Transmutation Live Bill Laswell: Baselines Tabla Beat Science: Tala Matrix (recent collaboration with Zakir Hussain, the great Indian drummer) I'm sure others on this list will disagree with some of my choices and may want to add others! Peace Out! Tom NP: John Zorn: Xu Feng NR: Albert Camus L'Etranger _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daryl Loomis" Subject: Re: the deconstruction of truth Date: 30 Oct 2000 10:15:30 -0800 These are all great recordings (I'd maybe quibble with Baselines, but...). = The only disc I would add would be Bill Laswell: "Deconstruction-The = Celluloid Recordings." Not all of it is great, but it has selections of = many various projects (both performing and producing) from Fab Five Freddy = to "Lowlife" to Ginger Baker. I think it gives one a very good idea of = the varied talents of Laswell. I honestly don't know if it is still = available, but I would hope that it is. Daryl Loomis ______________________________________________________ Tom writes: Here are my suggestions: Painkiller (with Zorn & Mick Harris): Execution Ground Massacre (with Fred Frith): Killing Time Material: Memory Serves Last Exit (with Sonny Sharrock, Ronald Shannon Jackson, Peter Brotzmann,=20= Laswell's 'dream band'): Headfirst Into The Flames Laswell/Brotzmann: Lowlife Arcana (Tony Williams' last session, with Pharoah Sanders, Buckethead,=20 Graham Haynes, Nicki Skopelitis): Arc Of The Testimony Anton Fier: Dreamspeed Paul Bowles: Baptism Of Solitude (great ambient sounds for Bowles' = readings) Praxis: Transmutation Live Bill Laswell: Baselines Tabla Beat Science: Tala Matrix (recent collaboration with Zakir = Hussain,=20 the great Indian drummer) ______ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sen" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 30 Oct 2000 19:54:21 +0100 Schaeffer's "Trait=E9..." comes to mind first, but there are some less abstract books: here are some that I have, but they're all in French. Pierre Schaeffer, "La musique concr=E8te", PUF coll Que sais-je,1967 A summary of the "Trait=E9 des objets musicaux". Deals with the history a= nd some intellectual aspects of musique concrete. It has been translated int= o German ("Musique Concrete", Klett Verlag, 1975) Michel Chion, "La musique =E9lectroacoustique", PUF coll. Que sais-je, 19= 67 Small but dense book. 1st half: technical aspects; 2nd part, history of electroacoustic works, year by year. Michel Chion, "Pierre Henry", Fayard/ Sacem, 1980 Musical biography of Pierre Henry; Chion describes his feelings about Pie= rre Henry's recorded output. Michel Chion & Guy Reibel, "Les musiques =E9lectroacoustiques", INA-GRM/ Edisud, 1976 Incredible 340 pages bible of electroacoustic documentation, good index, good discography, huge amount of composers referenced. Hugh Davies (ex-Stockhausen collaborator & ex-Gentle Fire!) has published= an apparently famous "R=E9pertoire international des musiques =E9lectroacous= tiques" in 1968. Is it in French or in English? If I knew it! Any info is welcome. For what's strictly English, you'd better check old classical music revie= ws of the 50's- 60's. They often cover all type of "academic" electronic musics. Best, Sen. ----- Original Message ----- Cc: ; Sent: lundi 30 octobre 2000 17:57 > > On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:49:26 GMT "Bill Ashline" wrote: > > > > Are there any good books available on musique concrete? Thanks. > > I would guess that Pierre Schaeffer's TRAITE DES OBJETS MUSICAUX is a > good start. > > The Bosseur brothers also wrote a very good book on electroacoustic mus= ic. > If I remember well, there is a good coverage of Studio d'Essais and GRM. > > I don't think that there is a book entirely dedicated to Musique Concre= te > (and for a good reason since it's true spirit did not survive the creat= ion > of eletronic music in Koln in the early 50's). > > Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dan hill Subject: nonesuch Date: 30 Oct 2000 19:32:40 +0000 hi 'scuse the interruption, but i don't suppose anyone would have an email address for nonesuch records would they? thanks, dan. -- ---+ dan hill [state51] ---+ new reviews on motion [30.10.2000]: < nobody | keith tippett | susumu yokota | cristian vogel | keiji haino w/ greg cohen & joey baron | xen cuts | sun ra | quasimoto | pimmon > http://motion.state51.co.uk/ +--- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: completism Date: 30 Oct 2000 22:45:20 +0100 > I've got all Crispells except: > Various Artists: The Texaco New York Jazz Festival Radio Series Live at The > Knitting Factory this you have...virtually.... Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Blind Idiot God Date: 30 Oct 2000 18:01:05 -0500 I think I may have asked this once before, but what the hell; maybe new info has surfaced. Does anyone know for certain whether or not Blind Idiot God is still extant? I think there were rumors here a year or two back about a new record, but.... Either way, does anyone know what the individual members might be up to? Aside from Hawkins' couple of discs on Laswellian labels and Epstein's brief tenure in SLAN (w/Zorn and Sharp), I've heard nothing, which strikes me as unusual given these guys' clear, and large, talents. Thanks, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Blind Idiot God Date: 30 Oct 2000 23:51:57 GMT >From: Brian Olewnick >Does anyone know for certain whether or not Blind Idiot God is still >extant? I think there were rumors here a year or two back about a new >record, but.... > >Either way, does anyone know what the individual members might be up to? Brian, I think it was last year that Gallanter at DMG told me that BIG was done and Hawkins was in a new group that was playing at the Cooler at that time. I didn't catch the gig unfortunately. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of this newer configuration though I'm sure Bruce knows. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: David Grubbs interview, Origins of Jazz article Date: 30 Oct 2000 20:06:53 -0500 Greetings, In the latest issue of Perfect Sound Forever , you'll find (among other things): DAVID GRUBBS INTERVIEW Interview- solo life after Gastr Del Sol and life in the Red Krayola http://www.furious.com/perfect/davidgrubbs.html JAZZ ORIGINS Brian J. Wolle explores the beginnings, in the days of Bix Beiderbecke and Jelly Roll Morton http://www.furious.com/perfect/earlyjazz.html We're always looking for good writers and/or ideas so let us know if you have anything to share. See you online, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 30 Oct 2000 21:55:52 -0500 At 08:57 AM 10/30/00 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > >On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:49:26 GMT "Bill Ashline" wrote: >> >> Are there any good books available on musique concrete? Thanks. In addition to the ones mentioned, Roger Sutherland's book on New Perspectives in Music has some relevant material. Although he doesn't discuss any of the usual founding fathers (Henry & Schaeffer), he does cover Russolo, Var=E8se, Stockhausen, Nono, and Parmegiani, as well as several other fascinating topics. Even with a pub date of 1994, most of the coverage stops in the 1970s, so don't look for much on the latest wave. Also, Metamkine has published a series of conference papers on the subject. I've gotten the first one, on aesthetics (published in a bilingual edition), and although it's academic papers, some of them are interesting. All of these are available occasionally from Anomalous (http://www.anomalousrecords.com). >I don't think that there is a book entirely dedicated to Musique Concrete >(and for a good reason since it's true spirit did not survive the creation >of eletronic music in Koln in the early 50's). I've been thinking that the spirit of musique concr=E8te has survived quite well into the 1990s and beyond after an admitted dry spell in the 1970s, when only the INA-GRM managed to keep the flame burning. I take the spirit to be the use of field recordings and other pre-existing sounds as the source and origin for new pieces through electronic manipulations, creating works of an abstract nature with the whole range of sound at its disposal. The main difference between now and 1950 is that now we have computers, then we had tape. Granted, much of this is semantics, but I feel the term electroacoustic, which is used in most of the current literature, has been usurped by new age composers like Robert Rich and Chris Meloche. But there are a lot of composers now, from Bernhard G=FCnter and Francisco Lopez to Hafler Trio and the empreintes digitales/metamkine line, who are very close to the spirit of musique concr=E8te. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: the deconstruction of truth Date: 30 Oct 2000 19:50:31 +0100 > Arcana (Tony Williams' last session, with Pharoah Sanders, Buckethead, > Graham Haynes, Nicki Skopelitis): Arc Of The Testimony Wasn't the second arcana disc - the trio with laswell and bailey - the last TW session? Marcin Gokieli - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re[2]: the deconstruction of truth Date: 31 Oct 2000 10:32:45 +0100 thomas> Painkiller (with Zorn & Mick Harris): Execution Ground thomas> Massacre (with Fred Frith): Killing Time thomas> Material: Memory Serves thomas> Last Exit (with Sonny Sharrock, Ronald Shannon Jackson, Peter Brotzmann, thomas> Laswell's 'dream band'): Headfirst Into The Flames thomas> Laswell/Brotzmann: Lowlife thomas> Arcana (Tony Williams' last session, with Pharoah Sanders, Buckethead, thomas> Graham Haynes, Nicki Skopelitis): Arc Of The Testimony thomas> Anton Fier: Dreamspeed thomas> Paul Bowles: Baptism Of Solitude (great ambient sounds for Bowles' readings) thomas> Praxis: Transmutation Live thomas> Bill Laswell: Baselines thomas> Tabla Beat Science: Tala Matrix (recent collaboration with Zakir Hussain, thomas> the great Indian drummer) thomas> I'm sure others on this list will disagree with some of my choices and may thomas> want to add others! Good choice, but IMO these are missing: Bill Laswell: APC Tracks, Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 Last Exit: Köln Material: Seven Souls Massace: Killing Time (Frith, Laswell and Hayward, improvised session after they had been the group of Percy Howard, Meridem) Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "serge dautricourt" Subject: Tzadik Date: 31 Oct 2000 05:06:05 PST hello, Does anybody know what Tzadik means in Hebrew? How about the transaltion of a few Masada songs? thanks, Serge _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Odp: the deconstruction of truth Date: 31 Oct 2000 13:15:11 GMT >From: "Marcin Gokieli" > > Arcana (Tony Williams' last session, with Pharoah Sanders, Buckethead, > > Graham Haynes, Nicki Skopelitis): Arc Of The Testimony > >Wasn't the second arcana disc - the trio with laswell and bailey - the last >TW session? The Bailey one was the first. The Arc of the Testimony was the second and the last Tony Williams disk. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "serge dautricourt" Subject: concerts Date: 31 Oct 2000 05:31:03 PST does Zorn have a web site? or is there a fan site that would have concert listings of him and other similar musicians? serge _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leonides Kluev Subject: Tzadik Date: 31 Oct 2000 16:58:05 +0300 Hello serge! Tuesday October 31 2000 05:06, serge dautricourt wrote: sd> Does anybody know what Tzadik means in Hebrew? Pious man. Leonides - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: RIP Jeanne Lee Date: 31 Oct 2000 10:17:06 -500 Makes me wonder if Gunter Hampel is still alive.... The album with Blake sounds great. From NY Times Jeanne Lee, Jazz Singer Who Embraced Avant-Garde, Dies at 61 By BEN RATLIFF Jeanne Lee, one of the great jazz singers in the avant-garde tradition and a teacher of singing, composition and movement, died on Wednesday in Tijuana, Mexico. She was 61. The cause was cancer, said her daughter Naima Hazelton. Because Ms. Lee performed in two radically different styles, her singing was difficult to categorize. One of her voices was dry, slow and breathy,influenced by Billie Holiday and Dinah Washington. In 1961 she and a classmate from Bard College, the pianist Ran Blake, performed as a duo at the Apollo Theater's Amateur Night contest. They won, and the album they later recorded, "The Newest Sound Around" (later reissued on CD as "The Legendary Duets"), has remained a cult favorite. In jazz standards and Thelonious Monk tunes on the album, Ms. Lee and Mr. Blake subtracted swing, but added intellectual coolness, abstruse piano harmonies and vocal influences from Holiday and Washington; the record is a series of minimalist dreams. (In 1989 she and Mr. Blake recorded a duet album in the same style, "You Stepped Out of a Cloud.") In her other vocal style, Ms. Lee approached words as sounds; this voice was harsh and booming, and she used her teeth, lips and tongue to wring drama out of each syllable, presaging singers like Diamanda Galas. In the mid-1960's she was a multidisciplinary artist, writing music with members of the Fluxus school like Alison Knowles and Dick Higgins, and gradually becoming more aligned with the rest of the late-1960's avant-garde in jazz. When she met and fell in love with the vibraphonist and composer Gunter Hampel in 1967, she began 20 years of collaborations with him in different jazz-related forms. While at Bard, Ms. Lee had studied child psychology and in 1970 was awarded a Martin Luther King Fellowship for Urban Studies by New York University to develop a curriculum for elementary school students that combined music and dance with academic subjects. She shuttled between New York and Europe until the late 1980's, living and working with Mr. Hampel, performing in duets, small groups and big bands, as well as conducting clinics and workshops; the couple made some 25 albums together, many of them for Mr. Hampel's own label, Birth. Ms. Lee also recorded with Marion Brown, Andrew Cyrille, Carla Bley, Peter Kowald and Reggie Workman, among others. She was active as a composer, combining vocal jazz with music and dance, working often with the choreographer Mickey Davidson. She lived in New York from 1994 to 1996 and for the last five years taught music and movement at conservatories in Antwerp, Belgium, and in The Hague. In addition to Ms. Hazelton of Los Angeles, she is survived by another daughter, Cavana Lee-Hampel of Berlin; a son, Ruomi Lee-Hampel of New York; and a grandson. ------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: RIP Jeanne Lee Date: 31 Oct 2000 10:53:25 -0500 (EST) Not only is he alive, but he played New York within the past two weeks (Manhattanites can name the excat date) Ken Waxman --- Matt Laferty wrote: > Makes me wonder if Gunter Hampel is still alive.... > > The album with Blake sounds great. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 31 Oct 2000 08:05:00 -0800 On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:55:52 -0500 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > > >I don't think that there is a book entirely dedicated to Musique Concrete > >(and for a good reason since it's true spirit did not survive the creation > >of eletronic music in Koln in the early 50's). > > I've been thinking that the spirit of musique concrète has survived quite > well into the 1990s and beyond after an admitted dry spell in the 1970s, > when only the INA-GRM managed to keep the flame burning. I take the spirit > to be the use of field recordings and other pre-existing sounds as the > source and origin for new pieces through electronic manipulations, creating > works of an abstract nature with the whole range of sound at its disposal. > The main difference between now and 1950 is that now we have computers, > then we had tape. Granted, much of this is semantics, but I feel the term > electroacoustic, which is used in most of the current literature, has been > usurped by new age composers like Robert Rich and Chris Meloche. But there > are a lot of composers now, from Bernhard Günter and Francisco Lopez to > Hafler Trio and the empreintes digitales/metamkine line, who are very close > to the spirit of musique concrète. I meant that Shaeffer defined a set of dogmas to meet in order to get the "musique concrete" approved label. When electronic music started a few years after, it was clear that the dogmas were too narrows and that the genre could be extended. It became electroacoustic music, which kind of merged both musique concrete and electronic music, an later added more (like computers, as you mentioned). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 31 Oct 2000 08:06:54 -0800 On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:55:52 -0500 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > > >I don't think that there is a book entirely dedicated to Musique Concrete > >(and for a good reason since it's true spirit did not survive the creation > >of eletronic music in Koln in the early 50's). > > I've been thinking that the spirit of musique concrète has survived quite > well into the 1990s and beyond after an admitted dry spell in the 1970s, > when only the INA-GRM managed to keep the flame burning. I take the spirit > to be the use of field recordings and other pre-existing sounds as the > source and origin for new pieces through electronic manipulations, creating > works of an abstract nature with the whole range of sound at its disposal. > The main difference between now and 1950 is that now we have computers, > then we had tape. Granted, much of this is semantics, but I feel the term > electroacoustic, which is used in most of the current literature, has been > usurped by new age composers like Robert Rich and Chris Meloche. But there > are a lot of composers now, from Bernhard Günter and Francisco Lopez to > Hafler Trio and the empreintes digitales/metamkine line, who are very close > to the spirit of musique concrète. I meant that Shaeffer defined a set of dogmas to meet in order to get the "musique concrete" approved label. When electronic music started a few years after, it was clear that the dogmas were too narrows and that the genre could be extended. It became electroacoustic music, which kind of merged both musique concrete and electronic music, an later added more (like computers, as you mentioned). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: blindidiotgod Date: 31 Oct 2000 10:07:55 -0500 briano (hi, brian) asked: >Does anyone know for certain whether or not Blind Idiot God is still >extant? I think there were rumors here a year or two back about a new >record, but.... > >Either way, does anyone know what the individual members might be up to? the laswell-produced 'azonic halo' in a nice black box (on strata, i think) is hawkins solo guitar. pretty nice, in a sorta death cube k kinda way. heavy distortion, dark ambient stuff. i still see it around at the usual nyc haunts. kg np: slapp happy - sort of - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 31 Oct 2000 09:23:25 -0800 (PST) > On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:55:52 -0500 "Caleb T. > Deupree" wrote: > I've been thinking that the spirit of musique > concrète has survived quite well into the 1990s and > beyond after an admitted dry spell in the 1970s, when only the INA-GRM managed to keep the flame > burning.....there are a lot of composers now, from >Bernhard Günter and Francisco Lopez to Hafler Trio >and the empreintes digitales/metamkine line, who are >very close to the spirit of musique concrète. I know there was a thread earlier this year about "favorite concrète records," so I might not open that can of worms, but...what _is_ happening with concrète today? (Or over these past 20 years?) I believe it was Caleb who once recommended an Empreintes Digitales albuym or two, though I can't remember which one. Could anyone suggest some relatively recent (or not, for that matter) titles which really shine? And briefly, for those of us who aren't WIRE'ed, what was the struggle between early electronic composers and adherents to musique concrète? Did it boil down to dogma, to sound sources? Thanks, ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: the deconstruction of truth Date: 31 Oct 2000 18:29:59 +0100 > >From: "Marcin Gokieli" > >Wasn't the second arcana disc - the trio with laswell and bailey - the last > >TW session? > > The Bailey one was the first. The Arc of the Testimony was the second and > the last Tony Williams disk. My musical knowledge can be divided into two categories: a) inaccurate b) outdated That was a clear example of a ;-) Marcin Gokieli - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: the deconstruction of truth Date: 31 Oct 2000 12:38:02 EST --part1_cb.abdd9e5.27305d7a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/00 3:49:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: > From: thomas chatterton > > > Arcana (Tony Williams' last session, with Pharoah Sanders, Buckethead, > > Graham Haynes, Nicki Skopelitis): Arc Of The Testimony > > Wasn't the second arcana disc - the trio with laswell and bailey - the last > TW session? > I seem to remember reading somewhere (here maybe?) that the last known Tony Williams session was with "the artist formerly known as Prince." -- =dg= --part1_cb.abdd9e5.27305d7a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/00 3:49:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes:




From: thomas chatterton <chatterton23@hotmail.com>

> Arcana (Tony Williams' last session, with Pharoah Sanders, Buckethead,
> Graham Haynes, Nicki Skopelitis): Arc Of The Testimony

Wasn't the second arcana disc - the trio with laswell and bailey - the last
TW session?



I seem to remember reading somewhere (here maybe?) that the last known Tony
Williams session was with "the artist formerly known as Prince."

--
=dg= --part1_cb.abdd9e5.27305d7a_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daryl Loomis" Subject: Re: Odp: the deconstruction of truth Date: 31 Oct 2000 10:21:10 -0800 >>I seem to remember reading somewhere (here maybe?) that the last >>known = Tony=20 >>Williams session was with "the artist formerly known as Prince." >>--=20 >>=3Ddg=3D Bill Laswell from the liner notes of Arcana: "Tony Williams left our world = before we reached the final stages of completing this project." From this, it would seem that Arcana was his final project. Daryl Loomis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 31 Oct 2000 19:14:17 -0500 At 09:23 AM 10/31/00 -0800, Scott Handley wrote: > >I know there was a thread earlier this year about >"favorite concr=E8te records," so I might not open that >can of worms, but...what _is_ happening with concr=E8te >today? (Or over these past 20 years?) =20 I've been thinking about this as part of a forthcoming article, and it seems to me like concr=E8te went into a decline in the late 1960s, when the early adopters moved on to other areas. This would include Stockhausen (who moved into live electronics and then the big buildup to the Opera), Nono (who also moved into more live encounters), etc. The only ones who kept going in the 70s and early 80s were the French, mostly the INA-GRM and their relatives (not too surprisingly, since that institute was founded by Henry). It didn't get the visibility or support that IRCAM did, and IRCAM's focus was very different from straight electroacoustic. But it seems that independently, in the last 10-15 years, a number of younger artists have rediscovered the genre, and with the advent of digital editing tools, have given the genre a new lease on life. All of the artists I mentioned in my previous post use some kind of prerecorded sounds as 'objets sonores', sources for sonic manipulation, and I'm sure I omitted some important artists from the list. >briefly, for those of us who aren't WIRE'ed, what was >the struggle between early electronic composers and >adherents to musique concr=E8te? Did it boil down to >dogma, to sound sources? I paid more attention to Stockhausen than the French, so my take is colored from that perspective (my copy of Schaeffer's book is on order). Stockhausen and artists from the German side were trying to synthesize sounds electronically. KS's first two electronic studies were based on acoustic studies of overtones, and he was trying to combine overtones in such a way to create interesting sounds (and using serial techniques to do so). Henry and the French found their sound sources in the real world, not through electronic generation. Maybe in the couple of years following WWII, there was a natural antipathy between the French and Germans which contributed to the hostility. Anyway, as Patrice mentioned, eventually the two paths combined, and Stockhausen's best electronic works (IMHO), which are Hymnen and Telemusik, use both natural and electronic sounds. Still researching this part, so my understanding is still sketchy. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 31 Oct 2000 16:48:51 -0800 On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:14:17 -0500 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > > At 09:23 AM 10/31/00 -0800, Scott Handley wrote: > > > >I know there was a thread earlier this year about > >"favorite concrète records," so I might not open that > >can of worms, but...what _is_ happening with concrète > >today? (Or over these past 20 years?) > > I've been thinking about this as part of a forthcoming article, and it > seems to me like concrète went into a decline in the late 1960s, when the It went into decline because its definition was too restrictive (what you could use and what you should not), and people realized quickly (in the late 50's) that musique concrete was a subset of something more general: electroacoustic music. > early adopters moved on to other areas. This would include Stockhausen > (who moved into live electronics and then the big buildup to the Opera), I know that Stockhausen went to the Studio d'Essais de la RTF when he was a student of Messiaen in the early 50's. I am pretty sure that he wrote his "musique concrete" piece (like everybody -- Boulez, Messiaen). I don't remember having ever heard of a recording of it. Anyway, back in Koln, he joined Herbert Heimert and his studio dedicated to the new electronic music. Fortunately, there are recordings of what he did there. > Nono (who also moved into more live encounters), etc. The only ones who > kept going in the 70s and early 80s were the French, mostly the INA-GRM and > their relatives (not too surprisingly, since that institute was founded by > Henry). It didn't get the visibility or support that IRCAM did, and > IRCAM's focus was very different from straight electroacoustic. But it People still wonder what is the use and achievements of IRCAM... Besides, of course, being a vehicle for Boulez' ego. > I paid more attention to Stockhausen than the French, so my take is colored > from that perspective (my copy of Schaeffer's book is on order). > Stockhausen and artists from the German side were trying to synthesize > sounds electronically. KS's first two electronic studies were based on > acoustic studies of overtones, and he was trying to combine overtones in > such a way to create interesting sounds (and using serial techniques to do > so). Henry and the French found their sound sources in the real world, not > through electronic generation. Maybe in the couple of years following > WWII, there was a natural antipathy between the French and Germans which > contributed to the hostility. Anyway, as Patrice mentioned, eventually the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't remember hearing of such hostility. Many German composers stopped by the Studio d'Essais and produced oeuvres using the fresh new technique. More important would be the harsh criticism that Boulez threw on the whole musique concrete after a short stay there. Knowing the respect (often based on intimidation) that Boulez gathered in the late '50s, any critic from him was equal to a death penalty. For him musique concrete was not serious (in fact like any other genres of music except his own). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 31 Oct 2000 19:31:31 -0500 --=====================_41646829==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:23:25, Scott Handley wrote:= =20 > > And > briefly, for those of us who aren't WIRE'ed, what was > the struggle between early electronic composers and > adherents to musique concr=E8te? Did it boil down to > dogma, to sound sources? Yes, yes and the ever-present eternal factors of ego, localized pride (i.e. Cologne, Paris) and such. It's all a rich tapestry. Best, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect=20 --=====================_41646829==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:23:25, Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com> wrote:

And
briefly, for those of us who aren't WIRE'ed, what was
the struggle between early electronic composers and
adherents to musique concr=E8te?  Did it boil down to
dogma, to sound sources?

Yes, yes and the ever-present eternal factors of ego, localized pride (i.e. Cologne, Paris) and such.  It's all a rich tapestry.

Best,
Jason

Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect --=====================_41646829==_.ALT-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: last night's Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow show Date: 31 Oct 2000 20:52:58 EST thought I'd send a brief report in on this, for interested parties. Stilluppsteypa and TV Pow are two laptop trios, from Iceland and Chicago respectively. last night at Tonic, they performed separately, then all six musicians combined for a short third set, their debut performance together. the sets were quite interesting in juxtaposition, at least for me. TV Pow played first, and they come from an improv background, so their set was fairly linear. what I mean is that while they covered quite a bit of range, there was always some degree of continuity throughout the set. Stilluppsteypa (pronounced Stilt-up-stay-pa) focused more on connecting different segments and stretches, with more of a jump cut approach. some of the stretches and sounds they produced were superb. the combined set brought together the strengths of both groups, despite only lasting 10 or 15 minutes. the linear flow of TV Pow combined with the superb soundmaking ability of Stilluppsteypa to produce some very impressive music. what I especially enjoyed was that despite six musicians being onstage at once, and it being their first performance together, there were stretches that were very minimal, and not everyone felt like they had to be contributing all the time. disclaimer: I'm releasing a collaborative CD by these two bands, which they're recording next weekend in Chicago, at the end of their brief US tour. and I set up this show. rest of the tour: 11/1, Washington DC @ Museum Of Contemporary Art DC w/87 Central www.dc.net/vertical/MOCA.html 11/2, Pittsburgh, PA @ Millvale Industrial Theater w/Pineal Ventana, Powder French www.mit.telerama.com 11/3, Detroit, MI @ Detroit Contemporary - www.detroitcontemporary.com 11/4, Cleveland, OH @ Speak in Tongues - www.speakintongues.com 11/5, Chicago, IL @ Deadtech w/Illusion of Safety - www.deadtech.net I'd love to hear any other opinions on this show, good or bad. it was quite well attended, which I was very happy about. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: musique concrète [2] (and French, and nostalgia) Date: 31 Oct 2000 22:34:30 -0800 (PST) Thanks for insightful responses. I don't want to be terribly OT (even O _this_ T!) but in an extensive interview (from 1995, mind you), Jim O'Rourke---who might be consider a "younger" artist working with, or at least coming out of, M.C.---makes a provocative statement: "...musique concréte is one of the few genres that's so inexorably tied to a certain school of thought, the French school of thought. As an American growing up, listening to and being interested in musique concrete, I had no actual history, nothing to relate to aesthetically. There's no American history of musique concrete. American and French aesthetics are not the same. So I had to deal with the question of a medium where the signifiers are so tightly tied to one way of thinking...Luc Ferrari's really the only composer of the original French musique concrete school who started dealing with what the sounds meant. The others wanted to avoid that, to take the sounds and move them into the abstract....'Rules of Reduction' [an early O'Rourke composition for tape] sounds French, but what happens within the piece is very anti-French. I got into really big trouble when they premiered it in Paris. In France there's 'l'image', the idea of taking the sounds and removing them out of everyday reality into some sort of fantasy. Every single time in my piece that the sounds try to do that, I counteract it. Like when the saxophones come out of the car horn, which is a classic musique concr‚te technique, I completely cut it cold. The piece eventually gives up, with this piano crap at the end. Every time there's a sense of reverie and nostalgia, another common thing in musique concréte, it never gets there, it's just a series of dead ends...Aesthetically it's very non-French, but with musique concréte you can't help but sound French, that's the history of it, you can't deny it. It shapes how people will perceive it." This portion excerpted from: http://www.hyperreal.org/intersection/zines/est/intervs/orourke.html (Interview conducted by Brian Duguid, for EST) Are these assertions at all correct? (This excerpt came to mind when I was reading list members' comments on national tendencies toward the form [?], practices and their [motivating] dogmas, and the waxing and waning of scenes/practices. Hope it's relevant.) I'm less interested in the O'Rourke connection per se than whether he's touched on something important. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ -