MtMan-List: Indian Sign

[Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com>]

Howdy,
Received this message via private e-mail; he wanted me to pass it on to
interested persons.  Please cc. Htorr@aol.com on any resulting discusson,
as he isn't on the list yet.
-Dean




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>Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:53:15 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Htorr@aol.com
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>To: drudy@xmission.com
>Subject: Indian Sign
>X-UIDL: f02e57c4147d1784b15a67a63a6c7b8f
>Status: RO
>
>Hi!
>
>     Thank you for your quick response to my E-mail.  E-mail addresses come
>and go and wanted to be sure it was still valid.
>
>     In the Order of the Arrow, part of the Boy Scout program, we do a lot of
>things on the theme of the Native Americans.  This includes such things as
>Indian dancing, sand painting, etc.  The Order of the Arrow originated in the
>Philadelphia area so most of the ceremonies are done with the Lanape
>(Delaware) Indians theme.  
>
>     I am an advisor to the Ceremonies team which is used to induct new
>members into the organization.  In addition to the inductions, the ceremonies
>teams also compete and are judged about twice a year.  In addition to the
>Indian regalia, the teams are judged on how well they have memorized their
>parts and their delivery.  One of the things they judge on is how well the
>hand motions correspond to what is being said.
>
>     This started me thinking.  At one of our National Conferences (held in
>Indiana) an Indian Book Store was set up (I believe they were from Oklahoma).
> I noticed Tomkins book Indian Sign Language for sale.  I figured that if the
>Scouts said their parts in English and did the equivalent in Indian Sign
>there could be no argument that the hand motions did not correspond to what
>is being said.
>
>     So, the Scouts in our Lodge have learned their parts in English and
>Indian Sign.  Using this method, they have taken first place in competition
>five of the last six years.  This has brought some interesting observations.
>
>     1. I have only met two Native Americans who know Indian Sign.  One I am
>suspicious of since he also was in the Order of the Arrow himself  and has
>two sons who are Eagle Scouts.   I don't know if he learned it as a Native
>American or in the Order of the Arrow.  He was also active in the YMCA Indian
>Guides.  The other person is a curator in a local museum.  His knowledge
>seemed very limited.
>
>     2.  I have gone to several powwows in California and New Mexico and have
>found not one person who knew Indian Sign, in spite of several inquiries.
> The Indian dancing, costuming, etc. are kept as traditions but Indian Sign
>apparently is dying out.
>
>     3.  I made a trip to Rapid City, South Dakota.  I figured that this is
>the heart of the plains Indians  who had really developed Indian Sign ---
>same thing --- not one person knew any.
>
>     4.  A boyhood friend of mine is married to a Native American woman.  In
>fact, she teaches Lakota Sioux in Rapid City.  She likewise does not know any
>Indian Sign but has a friend who she thought knew some.  
>
>     I realize that the need for Indian Sign has pretty well died out.  It
>was needed as a common language when the tribes met --- now English (or
>sometimes Spanish) has met that need.
>
>     We found a few fringe benefits for the Scouts who have learned Indian
>sign as a part of the ceremony team.
>
>     1. Doing the part in Indian sign as well as English helps re-enforce the
>part and their scores on  memorization have gone up.
>
>     2.  During a part of the ceremony weekend talking is discouraged.
> During this time, the ceremony team members are all able to coverse  with
>one another in Indian sign.  They seem to be proud of it and enjoy the look
>of bewilderment of those who do not know it.  Knowing their own parts and
>seeing the parts of the others has made all four of the ceremony team members
>nearly fluent in Indian sign.
>
>     I have obtained almost every book that I could find on Indian Sign.  The
>best book we have found is the book by William Tomkins.  The book "The Indian
>Sign Language" by W.P. Clark is excellent, but, unfortunately, contains no
>illustrations.  We find this useful for some signs that are not in Tomkins'
>book.  As you know, it was written by a U.S. Army officer who had spent many
>years with the Indians.  Indian Talk by  Iron Eyes Cody is not very useful as
>it is mostly just photos and does not show just how the hands move.  There
>are, however, a few signs that do not appear in Tomkins' book.  A couple of
>the signs in Cody's book  do not agree with the way they are shown in
>Tomkins' book.
>
>     An interesting book, written for children, is Talking Hands by Aline
>Amon.  This was probably done using Tomkins' book as a guide.  A few of the
>signs, notably the sign for "question" are incorrect in this book.
>
>     The only other place I have seen any Indian Sign used was on the program
>"Deaf Mosaic."  On a portion of this program a translation was being done
>simultaneously into Indian Sign and American Sign Language.  I remember years
>ago seeing a program on television where Indian sign was being used.  I
>suppose trying to find a copy of that program would be almost impossible now.
> VCRs had not even been invented then.
>
>     So, here you have our experiences with Indian Sign. I hope you can pass
>this on to Iron Burner.
>
>     Yes, I would be interested in seeing Mountain Man history and skills.
> Have not heard of it before.
>
>      Tom Orr
>      249 Juanita Way
>      Placentia CA 92870-2216
>      714-528-9822
>      htorr@aol.com
> 
>
>
>     .  
>
>