Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

[<NaugaMok@aol.com>]

In a message dated 98-06-17 01:24:53 EDT, you write:

<< Why do you use hot water to clean your firearm?

Because both guys who have built rifles for me said to.  Ok -- that was kind
of a "wise guy" answer, but they've both explained to me that by using hot
water -- hot enough to get the barrel to the point it's hard to hang on to --
helps dry the barrel quicker meaning less chance of moisture left in the
barrel when oiling/greasing the bore.  Sure, you CAN use moisture displacing
lubes like RIG, WD-40, etc, etc, but since we're so concerned what is
historicaly correct, that type chemical would be inappropriate.  True -- rapid
drying in a hot barrel DOES lead to minor oxidation/rust, but the immediate
oil/grease patch will take care of it.  Moisture trapped in the barrel over a
long period of time can lead to a more serious oxidation/rust problem, so it's
important to have the barrel totaly dry before oiling or greasing the bore.

< Do you believe that every time a woodsman wanted
 to clean  his fire arm, he stopped built a fire and heated
 water?

Of course not!  He probably didn't even consider hot water for cleaning his
rifle/gun.  Cold water worked -- & still does.  If I have to clean my rifle,
tradegun, pistol, & the wife's rifle & pistol, my hot water is cold before I'm
done.  I just try to start with a different weapon each time I actualy go to
the botheration to start with hot water.  I think while the water is still
hot, it seems to clean slightly faster, but not realy worth the effort for
that reason alone.

 < One that has lived long and works well for target shooting is Moose Milk,
it is very
 inexpensive and when your whole family shoots one needs to get by as
economically as he can.  Moose milk,   I make itup in a twenty four ounce
bottle, ( because that is what I have) one ounce of water soluble oil to
twenty ounces of ambient water.  then to the whole mixture add two ounces of
Murphy's Oil Soap,  (soap, not a detergent!)  Shake it up and use it.

Huh?  & I got jumped on about Mac's 13??????  Basicaly the same stuff 'cept
it's premixed & ready to use.  You give the NAPA part number for WSO -- if you
check the MSDS for Mac's /NAPA 13 -- it's 2 primary ingredients are WSO &
water.  At least you didn't call me a "heritic" for using automotive chemicals
in my guns.

<  Hydrogen Peroxide is an oxygenator
 that when used as a gun cleaner causes instant oxidation
 on any part of the un browned barrel it touches, meaning
 in this case the barrels bore.

Probably the most corrosive "non-acid" for iron or steel besides chlorine.
Another quirk about Hydrogen Peroxide -- it MUST be kept out of direct
sunlight or it breaks down to water.  If you store it in a clear instead of
brown bottle, it'll go "flat" in a mater of days, so you're realy back to
using a water based cleaner again.  You mention using 'peroxide for "aging" --
have you tired lemon or tomato juice?

 < I have no idea or intention that what I have written
 here should change  what anyone is presently doing, I simply
 would like for  you to think about it, possibly try it, if you are
 totally happy with your present methods fine, shoot center and
 have fun! Any cleaning method is far better than not cleaning
 at all.  The quality of many of todays replicas will probably allow 
 them to be around and useable long after  we'ins has gone under.
 	
Well put.  That was my intention when I wrote about Mac's 13.  Try it if you
want to, but not just because I use it.  It may not even work for you, & it it
doesn't, at $1.89 a bottle you're not out much.  I've tried various
concoctions labeled "Moose Milk" that didn't work for me -- maybe climate had
something to do with it.  Your version with the oil soap just might work here.
I was totaly put out by the reaction I got --- I was trying to be helpful with
a tip that works for me.  I thought the burning at the stake was a bit much --
especialy coming from someone advocating the peroxide mix.
  
< The water soluble oil is actually very similar to 
 some of the available lubricants used thru the mid 1700's through
 the 1860's.>>

Someone mentioned jojoba oil as a substitute for sperm oil.  I begged &
borrowed a few drops of sperm oil once for my flint lock ---- excelent stuff,
but awfully hard to find.  Let's face it -- some of the stuff that was arround
in the 1700 - 1800's ain't available any more -- so what do we do?  Substitute
with the closest we can find like WSO & jojoba or go with stuff that's still
available that doesn't work as well?  Maybe we should start a new thread
concerning lock lubricants -- what's a good period lock lube besides sperm
oil?  I've been using the non-period stuff like Hopies gun oil, Burchwood
Casey's, even Slick 50 & motor oil -- it all works, but not like sperm oil.
I'm presently having a new rifle built that will be a Fredrick Sell
reproduction & with it, I'd like to keep it's accouterments as historicaly
accurate as possible -- meaning tallow for patch lube instead of the Mac's I
use in most of my rifles -- among other things.

NM