Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Tom Worley" <stkguru@netside.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] new edition of htmmis
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:18:28 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C18424.177DE420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I heard in January, John, but I have heard no explanation for the = lengthy delay in releasing it. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Adair=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:48 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] new edition of htmmis Can anyone tell me when the new edition of htmmis by won will be = available -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of camelot.homes@charter.net Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:52 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] clarification eric, but how about the hugh returns that kacher, morales, ryan, kuhn = have gotten in the past using the canslim system. i believe in readings WON = gets a more modest 40% a year-of course i might be wrong about that. david ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tangen, Eric" <tangene@tycoelectronics.com> To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:41 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] clarification > The 40% number is an amalgam of a number of anecdotes from a few = different > sources. Its all word of mouth. No names to given protect the = guilty. > > You can almost infer such a number from WON himself...I'd bet if you = asked > the big-O-man in a seminar he'd deflect the question to point out = how much > you are ahead having 1 big gain out of 2-5 trades. > > > ERIC TANGEN > > -----Original Message----- > From: camelot.homes@charter.net [mailto:camelot.homes@charter.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:16 PM > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] clarification > > > eric, how do you get the 40% reliability of the WON breakout? david = frank > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tangen, Eric" <tangene@tycoelectronics.com> > To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:57 PM > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] clarification > > > > Of course you are right...risk is the stop value itself...it is = what you > > loose when your stop is triggered. It is what I mean but didn't = say > > correctly. > > > > This is what happens when I try to communicate math verbally...the = two > don't > > mix. :) > > > > ERIC TANGEN > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Adair [mailto:xjadair@brightok.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:48 PM > > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] clarification > > > > > > Hi Erick > > If I am reading your post right correctly you would say your risk > > on a $50 > > stock with a $5.00 stop would be $50.00 -$5.00 or $45.00. If that = is what > > you are saying I would not agree I would say your risk is $5.00 = if I > > understand what Tharp suggests. Tharp then limits your risk to = the 1% is > > based on that figure 1% ( 3% for the gunslinger) of your total = capitol. > > John Adair > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Tangen, Eric > > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:19 PM > > To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com' > > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] clarification > > > > The latter....your risk is your buy price less the stop. Rule of = thumb: > that > > number should be 1% or less of your total trading capital. So if = you want > in > > on a more volatile stock, just buy less of it...but don't set the = stop at > > 7-8% if the stock has a 10% daily trading range - another point = HTMMIS > > doesn't address. > > > > Trading any system with a 7-8% risk for each trade is a receipe = for > > disaster. The pros use a 1% limit. If (as in HTMMIS suggest) you = split up > > your capital evenly amoung 5-6 stocks and used an arbitrary 7-8% = stop > loss, > > statistically, it would be very easy to get enough losing trades = to loose > > all your money. The unspoken 40% reliability of the WON breakouts = only > makes > > this bad situation worse. > > > > I'm afraid that a quick reading of HTMMIS gives the impression = that if you > > can identify the perfect C+H setup and all the other CANSLIM = criteria are > in > > place, you can get darn near 100% reliability of a breakout. I = have a big > > problem with that. > > > > I'm not down on CANSLIM...just like people to know the reality of = the > > situation. Your going for home runs here and home run hitters have = a lot > of > > strikeouts. > > > > > > ERIC TANGEN > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Katherine Malm [mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:02 PM > > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] clarification > > > > > > >>If you put 7-8% of your trading capital > > > at risk on any one trade > > > > Now that I've been mulling over your comment, it begs another = question. > Are > > you suggesting the *total* monies invested in a trade are "at = risk"? Or > the > > amount which you've specified in downside stop-loss protection as = "at > > risk."? > > > > Katherine > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tangen, Eric" <tangene@tycoelectronics.com> > > To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:46 PM > > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] clarification > > > > > > > Welcome to the club! Breakouts are a high risk and high reward > strategy - > > if > > > you're batting .500, that's pretty darn good. You should expect = 40% > > success > > > at finding successful breakouts long-term. > > > > > > I just have to get this off my chest for the new = subscribers...WON's > 7-8% > > > stop below the pivot is a technical stop. It is a rule of thumb = based on > > > volatility in the handle region before a stock takes off. > > > > > > It is NOT A MONEY MANAGEMENT STOP!. If you put 7-8% of your = trading > > capital > > > at risk on any one trade, you will eventually pay some really = serious > Wall > > > Street tuition on the path to becoming successful trader. > > > > > > WON's work has virtually nothing in the area of money management = (what > he > > > does say is just plain outdated...by 5 stocks with 100k...more > appropriate > > > to an era of high commissions and lower volatility). > > > > > > Tharp's books are the best (only?) work in this area and should = be > > required > > > reading before you head out to the great casino that is Wall = Street. > > > > > > ERIC TANGEN > > > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C18424.177DE420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I heard in January, John, but I have heard no = explanation for=20 the lengthy delay in releasing it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tom Worley<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A><BR>AIM:=20 TexWorley<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:xjadair@brightok.net" = title=3Dxjadair@brightok.net>John=20 Adair</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com"=20 title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com>canslim@lists.xmission.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 13, = 2001 8:48=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CANSLIM] new = edition of=20 htmmis</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Can anyone tell me when the new edition of htmmis by = won will=20 be available<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com">owner-canslim@lists.xmis= sion.com</A><BR>[<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com">mailto:owner-canslim@lis= ts.xmission.com</A>]On=20 Behalf Of<BR><A=20 = href=3D"mailto:camelot.homes@charter.net">camelot.homes@charter.net</A><B= R>Sent:=20 Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:52 PM<BR>To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>Subject:=20 Re: [CANSLIM] clarification<BR><BR>eric, but how about the hugh = returns that=20 kacher, morales, ryan, kuhn have<BR>gotten in the past using the = canslim=20 system. i believe in readings WON gets<BR>a more modest 40% a year-of = course i=20 might be wrong about that. david<BR>----- Original Message = - -----<BR>From:=20 "Tangen, Eric" <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:tangene@tycoelectronics.com">tangene@tycoelectronics.com</= A>><BR>To:=20 <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>Sent:=20 Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:41 PM<BR>Subject: RE: [CANSLIM]=20 clarification<BR><BR><BR>> The 40% number is an amalgam of a number = of=20 anecdotes from a few different<BR>> sources. Its all word of mouth. = No=20 names to given protect the guilty.<BR>><BR>> You can almost = infer such a=20 number from WON himself...I'd bet if you asked<BR>> the big-O-man = in a=20 seminar he'd deflect the question to point out how much<BR>> you = are ahead=20 having 1 big gain out of 2-5 trades.<BR>><BR>><BR>> ERIC=20 TANGEN<BR>><BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:camelot.homes@charter.net">camelot.homes@charter.net</A> = [<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:camelot.homes@charter.net">mailto:camelot.homes@charter.ne= t</A>]<BR>>=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:16 PM<BR>> To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>>=20 Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] clarification<BR>><BR>><BR>> eric, how = do you=20 get the 40% reliability of the WON breakout? david frank<BR>> ----- = Original Message -----<BR>> From: "Tangen, Eric" <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:tangene@tycoelectronics.com">tangene@tycoelectronics.com</= A>><BR>>=20 To: <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>>=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:57 PM<BR>> Subject: RE: = [CANSLIM]=20 clarification<BR>><BR>><BR>> > Of course you are = right...risk is=20 the stop value itself...it is what you<BR>> > loose when your = stop is=20 triggered. It is what I mean but didn't say<BR>> > = correctly.<BR>>=20 ><BR>> > This is what happens when I try to communicate math=20 verbally...the two<BR>> don't<BR>> > mix. :)<BR>> = ><BR>>=20 > ERIC TANGEN<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >=20 -----Original Message-----<BR>> > From: John Adair [<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:xjadair@brightok.net">mailto:xjadair@brightok.net</A>]<BR>= >=20 > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:48 PM<BR>> > To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>>=20 > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] clarification<BR>> ><BR>> = ><BR>>=20 > Hi Erick<BR>> > If I am reading your post right = correctly you=20 would say your risk<BR>> > on a $50<BR>> > stock with a = $5.00 stop=20 would be $50.00 -$5.00 or $45.00. If that is<BR>what<BR>> = > you=20 are saying I would not agree I would say your risk is = $5.00 if=20 I<BR>> > understand what Tharp suggests. Tharp then limits your = risk=20 to the 1%<BR>is<BR>> > based on that figure 1% ( 3% for = the=20 gunslinger) of your total capitol.<BR>> > John = Adair<BR>>=20 ><BR>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>> > From: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com">owner-canslim@lists.xmis= sion.com</A><BR>>=20 > [<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com">mailto:owner-canslim@lis= ts.xmission.com</A>]On=20 Behalf Of Tangen, Eric<BR>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 = 7:19=20 PM<BR>> > To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:'canslim@lists.xmission.com'">'canslim@lists.xmission.com'= </A><BR>>=20 > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] clarification<BR>> ><BR>> > = The=20 latter....your risk is your buy price less the stop. Rule of = thumb:<BR>>=20 that<BR>> > number should be 1% or less of your total trading = capital.=20 So if you<BR>want<BR>> in<BR>> > on a more volatile stock, = just buy=20 less of it...but don't set the stop<BR>at<BR>> > 7-8% if the = stock has a=20 10% daily trading range - another point HTMMIS<BR>> > doesn't=20 address.<BR>> ><BR>> > Trading any system with a 7-8% risk = for=20 each trade is a receipe for<BR>> > disaster. The pros use a 1% = limit. If=20 (as in HTMMIS suggest) you split<BR>up<BR>> > your capital = evenly amoung=20 5-6 stocks and used an arbitrary 7-8% stop<BR>> loss,<BR>> >=20 statistically, it would be very easy to get enough losing trades=20 to<BR>loose<BR>> > all your money. The unspoken 40% reliability = of the=20 WON breakouts only<BR>> makes<BR>> > this bad situation=20 worse.<BR>> ><BR>> > I'm afraid that a quick reading of = HTMMIS=20 gives the impression that if<BR>you<BR>> > can identify the = perfect C+H=20 setup and all the other CANSLIM criteria<BR>are<BR>> in<BR>> = > place,=20 you can get darn near 100% reliability of a breakout. I have = a<BR>big<BR>>=20 > problem with that.<BR>> ><BR>> > I'm not down on=20 CANSLIM...just like people to know the reality of the<BR>> > = situation.=20 Your going for home runs here and home run hitters have a lot<BR>>=20 of<BR>> > strikeouts.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > = ERIC=20 TANGEN<BR>> ><BR>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>> = > From:=20 Katherine Malm [<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net</A>]<BR>&g= t; >=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:02 PM<BR>> > To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>>=20 > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] clarification<BR>> ><BR>> = ><BR>>=20 > >>If you put 7-8% of your trading capital<BR>> > > = at risk=20 on any one trade<BR>> ><BR>> > Now that I've been mulling = over=20 your comment, it begs another question.<BR>> Are<BR>> > you=20 suggesting the *total* monies invested in a trade are "at risk"? = Or<BR>>=20 the<BR>> > amount which you've specified in downside stop-loss=20 protection as "at<BR>> > risk."?<BR>> ><BR>> >=20 Katherine<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ----- Original = Message=20 -----<BR>> > From: "Tangen, Eric" <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:tangene@tycoelectronics.com">tangene@tycoelectronics.com</= A>><BR>>=20 > To: <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>>=20 > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:46 PM<BR>> > Subject: = RE:=20 [CANSLIM] clarification<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > > = Welcome to=20 the club! Breakouts are a high risk and high reward<BR>> strategy = - -<BR>>=20 > if<BR>> > > you're batting .500, that's pretty darn = good. You=20 should expect 40%<BR>> > success<BR>> > > at finding = successful=20 breakouts long-term.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > I just have = to get=20 this off my chest for the new subscribers...WON's<BR>> 7-8%<BR>> = >=20 > stop below the pivot is a technical stop. It is a rule of thumb=20 based<BR>on<BR>> > > volatility in the handle region before a = stock=20 takes off.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > It is NOT A MONEY = MANAGEMENT=20 STOP!. If you put 7-8% of your trading<BR>> > capital<BR>> = > >=20 at risk on any one trade, you will eventually pay some really = serious<BR>>=20 Wall<BR>> > > Street tuition on the path to becoming = successful=20 trader.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > WON's work has virtually = nothing=20 in the area of money management (what<BR>> he<BR>> > > = does say is=20 just plain outdated...by 5 stocks with 100k...more<BR>> = appropriate<BR>>=20 > > to an era of high commissions and lower volatility).<BR>> = >=20 ><BR>> > > Tharp's books are the best (only?) work in this = area=20 and should be<BR>> > required<BR>> > > reading before = you head=20 out to the great casino that is Wall Street.<BR>> > ><BR>> = >=20 > ERIC TANGEN<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > = - -<BR>>=20 > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>>= ; >=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> > = - -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR>> ><BR>> = >=20 -<BR>> > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>>= ; >=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> > = - -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR>> ><BR>>=20 ><BR>> > -<BR>> > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>>= ; >=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> > = - -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR>> ><BR>> = >=20 -<BR>> > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>>= ; >=20 -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> > = - -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your = email.<BR>><BR>><BR>>=20 -<BR>> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>>= ; -In=20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR>><BR>> = - -<BR>> -To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>>= ; -In=20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR><BR><BR>-<BR>-To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>-"unsubscribe = canslim". Do=20 not use quotes in your email.<BR><BR><BR>-<BR>-To = subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 "<A = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>-In= =20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>-"unsubscribe = canslim". =20 Do not use quotes in your email.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C18424.177DE420-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
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