Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Dan Forant" <dforant1@nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals?
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:36:30 -0500
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Because in a bad market like this one, short term cup & handles and =
other chart formations used with technical charts help me get out =
quicker. They also bolster my urge to buy a stock. I don't care why a =
stock goes up or down, as long as I can get some insight *when* it will. =
Example, EPIQ, I was in at 22, 11/8 and out 11/20 at 25.15 the close. =
Not a staggering profit, but not a %7 loss either. Macd, macd hist, =
stoch, rsi stock compared to SP500, was falling. I cut and run and don't =
look back. Who was it Carnegie that always sold early?? We've been =
given a lot of huff and puff with this rally. There are many casualties.
DanF
Danf
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals?
Dan, I assume that you're supporting the 'need' for fundamentals. If =
so, why?
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dan Forant=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals?
Funny, I've been using a simple stochastics and macd hist chart for =
months now. Sure when green rolls over red buy. Red over green sell. =
Know what? It works, till *M* rolls around again for Canslim. It's like =
being on vacation away from all the data. The big winners are few to =
none though compared to when Canslim works.
DanF
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
K, thanks for the clarification.
A couple of weeks ago I would have said 'no fundamentals... are =
you kidding me'.=20
I've had several discussions over the past 2-3 weeks and as =
recently as last Thursday, I was told to think 'out of the box' by a VP =
at WizeTrade. I signed up for their 30-day trial (week ago) and was in =
his office 'showing' him the shortcomings of his system. He showed me a =
sign that said... price is determined by buyers and sellers. He went on =
to say that all I had to do was to look at the Green (buy) and Red =
(sell) indicators.... green means more buyers than sellers and red more =
sellers than buyers. The program has charts.... felt better when I found =
that out.... turns out the charts were just time intervals intraday, =
day, week, month.... the lines on the chart were green and red. When the =
green crossed up over red, time to buy.... when red over green it's time =
to sell.=20
From WizeTrade home page or links.
The green line and the red line are summation formulas and not =
price lines or graphs
"No, WizetradeT is not based on "moving averages." =
WizetradeT uses seven key technical indicators to perform its complex =
"real-time" calculations at the rate of 800-1500 calculations per =
second. The seven key indicators are the previous day's closing price, =
the current day's opening price, high, low, every up tick, every down =
tick - which are then exponentially weighted to volume."=20
How can this system work, no fundamentals, stochastic, MACD, =
candlesticks, CANSLIM, etc.?? They seem to take pride in buying =
companies that they don't know much about or what the symbol stands =
for.... they do take pride in the fact that their software tells them =
immediately when there are more buyers than sellers, etc. .... BTW, they =
signaled to get out of ENE at 80+.
I was told that fundamentals were nothing more than a time waster =
and a poor placebo (in a nice way).=20
I'm interested in learning 'the truth'. Certainly would be nice to =
quit looking at fundamentals and all that research as well as spending =
money on DGO/IBD.... etc. WizeTrade also eliminates the need to track or =
know anything about sector rotation.... their buyers and sellers tell =
them all that.
Is it possible that I've been wasting my time looking for data to =
support what I call a good company?
Naw, can't be!
Guess I'll just have to try to understand how and if their system =
works.... over the holidays.=20
Disclaimer: I don't work for them and until my trial is over, I'm =
not even a customer.
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
That would mean any selection criteria that depended on =
something other than price/volume/volatility technical indicators.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
Please define "any sort of fundamental analysis"...=20
Thanks,
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 10:12 AM
Subject: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
Proposed:
If a typical CANSLIM/Intermediate term move in a stock lasts =
only a few weeks, and in good markets, only a few months, why bother =
selecting portfolio candidates using any sort of fundamental analysis? =
Returns in this time period are strictly based on price movement and can =
be maximized based on technical indicators and price/volume action =
alone.
Thoughts pro/con?
Katherine
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Because in a bad market like this one, =
short term=20
cup & handles and other chart formations used with technical charts =
help me=20
get out quicker. They also bolster my urge to buy a stock. I don't =
care=20
why a stock goes up or down, as long as I can get some insight *when* it =
will.=20
Example, EPIQ, I was in at 22, 11/8 and out 11/20 at 25.15 the close. =
Not a=20
staggering profit, but not a %7 loss either. Macd, macd hist, =
stoch, rsi=20
stock compared to SP500, was falling. I cut and run and don't look back. =
Who was=20
it Carnegie that always sold early?? We've been given a lot of =
huff and=20
puff with this rally. There are many casualties.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DanF</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Danf</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dgenr@swbell.net href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene =
Ricci</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 16, 2001 =
8:08=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Point of =
View: Why=20
bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Dan, I assume that you're supporting =
the=20
'need' for fundamentals. If so, why?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddforant1@nycap.rr.com =
href=3D"mailto:dforant1@nycap.rr.com">Dan=20
Forant</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 16, =
2001 6:24=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Point =
of View:=20
Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Funny, I've been using a simple =
stochastics and=20
macd hist chart for months now. Sure when green rolls over red buy. =
Red over=20
green sell. Know what? It works, till *M* rolls around again for =
Canslim.=20
It's like being on vacation away from all the data. The big winners =
are few=20
to none though compared to when Canslim works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DanF</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dgenr@swbell.net href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene =
Ricci</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 16, =
2001 5:23=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
Point of View:=20
Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">K, thanks for the=20
clarification.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">A couple of weeks ago I would =
have said=20
'no fundamentals... are you kidding me'. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I've had several discussions =
over the past=20
2-3 weeks and as recently as last Thursday, I was told to think =
'out of=20
the box' by a VP at WizeTrade. </FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I signed up for their 30-day=20
trial (week ago) and was in his office 'showing' him the =
shortcomings=20
of his system. He showed me a sign that said... price is =
determined by=20
buyers and sellers. He went on to say that all I had to do =
was to=20
look at the Green (buy) and Red (sell) indicators.... green means =
more=20
buyers than sellers and red more sellers than buyers. The program =
has=20
charts.... felt better when I found that out.... turns out the =
charts were=20
just time intervals intraday, day, week, month.... the lines on =
the chart=20
were green and red. When the green crossed up over red, time to =
buy....=20
when red over green it's time to sell. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">From WizeTrade home page or =
links.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> <FONT face=3DArial color=3D#330099 size=3D2><EM>The =
green line and=20
the red line are summation formulas and not price lines or=20
graphs</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D2 width=3D"100%" border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD align=3Dleft width=3D"98%"><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif"=20
color=3D#330099 size=3D2><EM>"No, Wizetrade=99 is not based =
on "moving=20
averages." Wizetrade=99 uses seven key technical indicators =
to perform=20
its complex "real-time" calculations at the rate of 800-1500 =
calculations per second. The seven key indicators are the =
previous=20
day's closing price, the current day's opening price, high, =
low,=20
every up tick, every down tick - which are then =
exponentially=20
weighted to volume."</EM></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">How can this system work, no =
fundamentals,=20
stochastic, MACD, candlesticks, CANSLIM, etc.?? They seem to take =
pride in=20
buying companies that they don't know much about or what the =
symbol stands=20
for.... they do take pride in the fact that their software tells =
them=20
immediately when there are more buyers than sellers, etc. =
.... BTW,=20
they signaled to get out of ENE at 80+.</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I was told that fundamentals =
were nothing=20
more than a time waster and a poor placebo (in a nice way). =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I'm interested in =
learning 'the=20
truth'. Certainly would be nice to quit looking at fundamentals =
and all=20
that research as well as spending money on DGO/IBD.... etc. =
WizeTrade also=20
eliminates the need to track or know anything about sector =
rotation....=20
their buyers and sellers tell them all that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Is it possible that I've been =
wasting my=20
time looking for data to support what I call a good =
company?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Naw, can't be!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Guess I'll just have to try to =
understand=20
how and if their system works.... over the holidays. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Disclaimer: I don't work for =
them and=20
until my trial is over, I'm not even a customer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net =
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine=20
Malm</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December =
16, 2001=20
2:55 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
Point of=20
View: Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That would mean any selection =
criteria that=20
depended on something other than price/volume/volatility =
technical=20
indicators.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Katherine</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dgenr@swbell.net =
href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene Ricci</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December =
16, 2001=20
3:14 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
Point of=20
View: Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Please define "any sort of =
fundamental=20
analysis"... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net=20
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine Malm</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, =
December 16, 2001=20
10:12 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] =
Point of=20
View: Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Proposed:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If a typical =
CANSLIM/Intermediate term=20
move in a stock lasts only a few weeks, and in good markets, =
only a=20
few months, why bother selecting portfolio candidates using =
any sort=20
of fundamental analysis? Returns in this time period are =
strictly=20
based on price movement and can be maximized based on =
technical=20
indicators and price/volume action alone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thoughts =
pro/con?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Katherine</DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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