Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: Gene Ricci <genr@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals?
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:26:04 -0600
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Dan, where are the fundamentals as defined by K. in this approach?
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dan Forant=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals?
Because in a bad market like this one, short term cup & handles and =
other chart formations used with technical charts help me get out =
quicker. They also bolster my urge to buy a stock. I don't care why a =
stock goes up or down, as long as I can get some insight *when* it will. =
Example, EPIQ, I was in at 22, 11/8 and out 11/20 at 25.15 the close. =
Not a staggering profit, but not a %7 loss either. Macd, macd hist, =
stoch, rsi stock compared to SP500, was falling. I cut and run and don't =
look back. Who was it Carnegie that always sold early?? We've been =
given a lot of huff and puff with this rally. There are many casualties.
DanF
Danf
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals?
Dan, I assume that you're supporting the 'need' for fundamentals. =
If so, why?
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dan Forant=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
Funny, I've been using a simple stochastics and macd hist chart =
for months now. Sure when green rolls over red buy. Red over green sell. =
Know what? It works, till *M* rolls around again for Canslim. It's like =
being on vacation away from all the data. The big winners are few to =
none though compared to when Canslim works.
DanF
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
K, thanks for the clarification.
A couple of weeks ago I would have said 'no fundamentals... are =
you kidding me'.=20
I've had several discussions over the past 2-3 weeks and as =
recently as last Thursday, I was told to think 'out of the box' by a VP =
at WizeTrade. I signed up for their 30-day trial (week ago) and was in =
his office 'showing' him the shortcomings of his system. He showed me a =
sign that said... price is determined by buyers and sellers. He went on =
to say that all I had to do was to look at the Green (buy) and Red =
(sell) indicators.... green means more buyers than sellers and red more =
sellers than buyers. The program has charts.... felt better when I found =
that out.... turns out the charts were just time intervals intraday, =
day, week, month.... the lines on the chart were green and red. When the =
green crossed up over red, time to buy.... when red over green it's time =
to sell.=20
From WizeTrade home page or links.
The green line and the red line are summation formulas and not =
price lines or graphs
"No, WizetradeT is not based on "moving averages." =
WizetradeT uses seven key technical indicators to perform its complex =
"real-time" calculations at the rate of 800-1500 calculations per =
second. The seven key indicators are the previous day's closing price, =
the current day's opening price, high, low, every up tick, every down =
tick - which are then exponentially weighted to volume."=20
How can this system work, no fundamentals, stochastic, MACD, =
candlesticks, CANSLIM, etc.?? They seem to take pride in buying =
companies that they don't know much about or what the symbol stands =
for.... they do take pride in the fact that their software tells them =
immediately when there are more buyers than sellers, etc. .... BTW, they =
signaled to get out of ENE at 80+.
I was told that fundamentals were nothing more than a time =
waster and a poor placebo (in a nice way).=20
I'm interested in learning 'the truth'. Certainly would be nice =
to quit looking at fundamentals and all that research as well as =
spending money on DGO/IBD.... etc. WizeTrade also eliminates the need to =
track or know anything about sector rotation.... their buyers and =
sellers tell them all that.
Is it possible that I've been wasting my time looking for data =
to support what I call a good company?
Naw, can't be!
Guess I'll just have to try to understand how and if their =
system works.... over the holidays.=20
Disclaimer: I don't work for them and until my trial is over, =
I'm not even a customer.
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
That would mean any selection criteria that depended on =
something other than price/volume/volatility technical indicators.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
Please define "any sort of fundamental analysis"...=20
Thanks,
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 10:12 AM
Subject: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with =
fundamentals?
Proposed:
If a typical CANSLIM/Intermediate term move in a stock =
lasts only a few weeks, and in good markets, only a few months, why =
bother selecting portfolio candidates using any sort of fundamental =
analysis? Returns in this time period are strictly based on price =
movement and can be maximized based on technical indicators and =
price/volume action alone.
Thoughts pro/con?
Katherine
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Dan, where are the fundamentals as =
defined by K.=20
in this approach?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddforant1@nycap.rr.com =
href=3D"mailto:dforant1@nycap.rr.com">Dan=20
Forant</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 16, 2001 =
7:36=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Point of =
View: Why=20
bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Because in a bad market like this =
one, short term=20
cup & handles and other chart formations used with technical =
charts help=20
me get out quicker. They also bolster my urge to buy a stock. I =
don't=20
care why a stock goes up or down, as long as I can get some insight =
*when* it=20
will. Example, EPIQ, I was in at 22, 11/8 and out 11/20 at 25.15 the =
close.=20
Not a staggering profit, but not a %7 loss either. Macd, macd =
hist,=20
stoch, rsi stock compared to SP500, was falling. I cut and run and =
don't look=20
back. Who was it Carnegie that always sold early?? We've been =
given a=20
lot of huff and puff with this rally. There are many =
casualties.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DanF</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Danf</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dgenr@swbell.net href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene =
Ricci</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 16, =
2001 8:08=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Point =
of View:=20
Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Dan, I assume that you're =
supporting the=20
'need' for fundamentals. If so, why?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddforant1@nycap.rr.com =
href=3D"mailto:dforant1@nycap.rr.com">Dan=20
Forant</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 16, =
2001 6:24=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
Point of View:=20
Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Funny, I've been using a simple =
stochastics=20
and macd hist chart for months now. Sure when green rolls over red =
buy.=20
Red over green sell. Know what? It works, till *M* rolls around =
again for=20
Canslim. It's like being on vacation away from all the data. The =
big=20
winners are few to none though compared to when Canslim=20
works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DanF</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dgenr@swbell.net href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene =
Ricci</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December =
16, 2001=20
5:23 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
Point of=20
View: Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">K, thanks for the=20
clarification.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">A couple of weeks ago I would =
have said=20
'no fundamentals... are you kidding me'. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I've had several discussions =
over the=20
past 2-3 weeks and as recently as last Thursday, I was told to =
think=20
'out of the box' by a VP at =
WizeTrade. </FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I signed up for their 30-day=20
trial (week ago) and was in his office 'showing' him the=20
shortcomings of his system. He showed me a sign that said... =
price is=20
determined by buyers and sellers. He went on to say that =
all I had=20
to do was to look at the Green (buy) and Red (sell) =
indicators.... green=20
means more buyers than sellers and red more sellers than buyers. =
The=20
program has charts.... felt better when I found that out.... =
turns out=20
the charts were just time intervals intraday, day, week, =
month.... the=20
lines on the chart were green and red. When the green crossed up =
over=20
red, time to buy.... when red over green it's time to=20
sell. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">From WizeTrade home =
page or=20
links.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> <FONT face=3DArial color=3D#330099 size=3D2><EM>The =
green line and=20
the red line are summation formulas and not price lines or=20
graphs</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD align=3Dleft width=3D"98%"><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#330099 =
size=3D2><EM>"No,=20
Wizetrade™ is not based on "moving averages." =
Wizetrade™ uses=20
seven key technical indicators to perform its complex =
"real-time"=20
calculations at the rate of 800-1500 calculations per =
second. The=20
seven key indicators are the previous day's closing price, =
the=20
current day's opening price, high, low, every up tick, =
every down=20
tick - which are then exponentially weighted to=20
volume."</EM></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">How can this system work, no =
fundamentals,=20
stochastic, MACD, candlesticks, CANSLIM, etc.?? They seem to =
take pride=20
in buying companies that they don't know much about or what the =
symbol=20
stands for.... they do take pride in the fact that their =
software tells=20
them immediately when there are more buyers than sellers, =
etc. ....=20
BTW, they signaled to get out of ENE at 80+.</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I was told that fundamentals =
were=20
nothing more than a time waster and a poor placebo (in a nice =
way).=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I'm interested in =
learning 'the=20
truth'. Certainly would be nice to quit looking at fundamentals =
and all=20
that research as well as spending money on DGO/IBD.... etc. =
WizeTrade=20
also eliminates the need to track or know anything about sector=20
rotation.... their buyers and sellers tell them all =
that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Is it possible that I've been =
wasting my=20
time looking for data to support what I call a good=20
company?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Naw, can't be!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Guess I'll just have to try to =
understand how and if their system works.... over the holidays.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Disclaimer: I don't work for =
them and=20
until my trial is over, I'm not even a customer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net=20
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine Malm</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December =
16, 2001=20
2:55 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
Point of=20
View: Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That would mean any selection =
criteria=20
that depended on something other than price/volume/volatility=20
technical indicators.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Katherine</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dgenr@swbell.net =
href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene=20
Ricci</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, =
December 16, 2001=20
3:14 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[CANSLIM] Point of=20
View: Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Please define "any sort of =
fundamental analysis"... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
- ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net=20
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine Malm</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, =
December 16,=20
2001 10:12 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] =
Point of=20
View: Why bother with fundamentals?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Proposed:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If a typical =
CANSLIM/Intermediate=20
term move in a stock lasts only a few weeks, and in good =
markets,=20
only a few months, why bother selecting portfolio =
candidates using=20
any sort of fundamental analysis? Returns in this time =
period are=20
strictly based on price movement and can be maximized =
based on=20
technical indicators and price/volume action =
alone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thoughts =
pro/con?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Katherine</DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML>
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