Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: Gene Ricci <genr@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals?
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:20:55 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01C196F8.070CCDE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andreas, I found enough to convince me that watching blinking lights = wasn't for me, I prefer to use candlesticks with support/resistance. =20 Main Issues: a). WizeFinder can not select stocks with good fundamentals = (volume/price only) b). WizeFinder can not find strong uptrending stocks on a pullback c). WizeTrade's visual subjectivity makes system testing almost = impossible=20 to determine system reliability, expectancy, etc. d) No support/resistance lines on any of the charts e) lines are charts do not represent price f) software stability Best for someone with no knowledge of TA (IMHO). Gene ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andreas Himmelreich=20 To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: AW: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals? Gene, did you find out more about Wiztrade? Thank you Andreas > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Gene Ricci [SMTP:genr@swbell.net] > Gesendet am: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:32 PM > An: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Betreff: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with fundamentals? > > Tom, I spoke with WizeTrade a few minutes ago and they told me that=20 fundamentals were required for position trading (1 - 4 months+). One = of=20 their most successful position traders selects his candidates from = Daily=20 Graphs AFTER they pass the following criteria: > > i. STOCK PRICE BETWEEN $10 AND $60 > ii. AVERAGE VOLUME >=3D 400,000 shares per day > iii. TIMELINESS =3D A > iv. ACCUMULATION =3D A or B > v. SMR RATING =3D 60-99 or (A/B)* > vi. GROUP RATING =3D 60-99 or (A/B)* > vii. RS >=3D 79 > > * Note: DGO in some reports will grade items as A,B,C etc. and in = another=20 report will grade the same item numerically. A score of 60-79 =3D B = and=20 80-99=3DA. A score of 60 or higher means that it is at least a rating = of B. > > He also uses Stockcharts and MA's to make the final decision as to = the=20 candidates that move on to WT. > > Haven't seen any data that 'tells' me that using fundamentals for=20 intermediate or swing trading is bad!!! So ...even if using them is = nothing=20 more than a placebo, they make me feel good, so why not continue to = use=20 them... that's the easiest and most structured part of the process.... = chart reading by my definition being the most difficult. > > K. what have you learned from this banter? > > Gene > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Worley > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:24 PM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with = fundamentals? > > > Gene, > > It all depends on whether you have the time and stamina to day = trade,=20 or you are trying to invest. If the former, go with WizeTrade. If the=20 latter, find something that works beyond a few hours or a few days. > > I have known a number of day traders over the years, and none used = fundies, most didn't even know what the company did for business. = Ignored=20 sector or industry group, earnings (past or future), RS, etc. Several=20 didn't even really know how to read a chart, simply relied on current=20 momentum. The ones that did it professionally spent upwards of 10 = hours a=20 day in front of their monitor(s). One had 7 different monitors and two = TVs=20 he tried to watch continuously. > > Tom Worley > stkguru@netside.net > AIM: TexWorley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gene Ricci > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 5:23 PM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with = fundamentals? > > > K, thanks for the clarification. > > A couple of weeks ago I would have said 'no fundamentals... are = you=20 kidding me'. > > I've had several discussions over the past 2-3 weeks and as = recently=20 as last Thursday, I was told to think 'out of the box' by a VP at=20 WizeTrade. I signed up for their 30-day trial (week ago) and was in = his=20 office 'showing' him the shortcomings of his system. He showed me a = sign=20 that said... price is determined by buyers and sellers. He went on to = say=20 that all I had to do was to look at the Green (buy) and Red (sell)=20 indicators.... green means more buyers than sellers and red more = sellers=20 than buyers. The program has charts.... felt better when I found that=20 out.... turns out the charts were just time intervals intraday, day, = week,=20 month.... the lines on the chart were green and red. When the green = crossed=20 up over red, time to buy.... when red over green it's time to sell. > > From WizeTrade home page or links. > > The green line and the red line are summation formulas and not = price=20 lines or graphs > > "No, WizetradeT is not based on "moving averages." = WizetradeT=20 uses seven key technical indicators to perform its complex "real-time" = calculations at the rate of 800-1500 calculations per second. The = seven key=20 indicators are the previous day's closing price, the current day's = opening=20 price, high, low, every up tick, every down tick - which are then=20 exponentially weighted to volume." > > How can this system work, no fundamentals, stochastic, MACD,=20 candlesticks, CANSLIM, etc.?? They seem to take pride in buying = companies=20 that they don't know much about or what the symbol stands for.... they = do=20 take pride in the fact that their software tells them immediately when = there are more buyers than sellers, etc. .... BTW, they signaled to = get out=20 of ENE at 80+. > > I was told that fundamentals were nothing more than a time = waster and=20 a poor placebo (in a nice way). > > I'm interested in learning 'the truth'. Certainly would be nice = to=20 quit looking at fundamentals and all that research as well as spending = money on DGO/IBD.... etc. WizeTrade also eliminates the need to track = or=20 know anything about sector rotation.... their buyers and sellers tell = them=20 all that. > > Is it possible that I've been wasting my time looking for data = to=20 support what I call a good company? > > Naw, can't be! > > Guess I'll just have to try to understand how and if their = system=20 works.... over the holidays. > > Disclaimer: I don't work for them and until my trial is over, = I'm not=20 even a customer. > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katherine Malm > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 2:55 PM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with = fundamentals? > > > That would mean any selection criteria that depended on = something=20 other than price/volume/volatility technical indicators. > > Katherine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gene Ricci > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 3:14 PM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with=20 fundamentals? > > > Please define "any sort of fundamental analysis"... > > Thanks, > Gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katherine Malm > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 10:12 AM > Subject: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with = fundamentals? > > > Proposed: > > If a typical CANSLIM/Intermediate term move in a stock = lasts=20 only a few weeks, and in good markets, only a few months, why bother=20 selecting portfolio candidates using any sort of fundamental analysis? = Returns in this time period are strictly based on price movement and = can be=20 maximized based on technical indicators and price/volume action alone. > > Thoughts pro/con? > > Katherine > << Datei: ATT00017.htm >>=20 - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01C196F8.070CCDE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4912.300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Andreas, I found enough to convince me = that=20 watching blinking lights wasn't for me, I prefer to use candlesticks = with=20 support/resistance. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT><FONT=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Main = Issues:<BR>a).=20 WizeFinder can not select stocks with good fundamentals (volume/price=20 only)<BR>b). WizeFinder can not find strong uptrending stocks on a=20 pullback<BR>c). WizeTrade's visual subjectivity makes system testing = almost=20 impossible <BR>to determine system reliability, expectancy, etc.<BR>d) = No=20 support/resistance lines on any of the charts</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">e) = lines are charts=20 do not represent price</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>f) software stability</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Best for someone with no knowledge of = TA=20 (IMHO).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman">Gene</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Djudgejimmy@web.de href=3D"mailto:judgejimmy@web.de">Andreas = Himmelreich</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:'canslim@lists.xmission.com'">'canslim@lists.xmission.com'= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 06, 2002 = 5:48=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> AW: [CANSLIM] Point of = View: Why=20 bother with fundamentals?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Gene,<BR><BR>did you find out more about = Wiztrade?<BR><BR>Thank=20 you<BR><BR>Andreas<BR><BR>> -----Ursprungliche = Nachricht-----<BR>> Von:=20 Gene Ricci [SMTP:genr@swbell.net]<BR>> Gesendet am: Monday, = December 17,=20 2001 10:32 PM<BR>> An: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>>=20 Betreff: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with=20 fundamentals?<BR>><BR>> Tom, I spoke with WizeTrade a few = minutes ago=20 and they told me that <BR>fundamentals were required for = position=20 trading (1 - 4 months+). One of <BR>their most successful position = traders=20 selects his candidates from Daily <BR>Graphs AFTER they pass the = following criteria:<BR>><BR>> =20 = i.  = ; =20 STOCK PRICE BETWEEN $10 AND $60<BR>>=20 ii. = AVERAGE=20 VOLUME >=3D 400,000 shares per day<BR>>=20 iii. TIMELINESS =3D = A<BR>>=20 iv. =20 ACCUMULATION =3D A or B<BR>>=20 = v.  = ; =20 SMR RATING =3D 60-99 or (A/B)*<BR>>=20 vi. = GROUP=20 RATING =3D 60-99 or (A/B)*<BR>>=20 vii. RS >=3D = 79<BR>><BR>> *=20 Note: DGO in some reports will grade items as A,B,C etc. and in = another=20 <BR>report will grade the same item numerically. A score of 60-79 =3D = B and=20 <BR>80-99=3DA. A score of 60 or higher means that it is at least a = rating of=20 B.<BR>><BR>> He also uses Stockcharts and MA's to make the final = decision as to the <BR>candidates that move on to WT.<BR>><BR>> = Haven't=20 seen any data that 'tells' me that using fundamentals for = <BR>intermediate or=20 swing trading is bad!!! So ...even if using them is nothing <BR>more = than a=20 placebo, they make me feel good, so why not continue to use = <BR>them...=20 that's the easiest and most structured part of the process.... = <BR>chart=20 reading by my definition being the most difficult.<BR>><BR>> K. = what=20 have you learned from this banter?<BR>><BR>>=20 Gene<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ----- Original = Message=20 -----<BR>> From: Tom Worley<BR>> To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>> =20 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:24 PM<BR>> Subject: = Re:=20 [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with=20 fundamentals?<BR>><BR>><BR>> =20 Gene,<BR>><BR>> It all depends on whether you have = the time=20 and stamina to day trade, <BR>or you are trying to invest. If the = former, go=20 with WizeTrade. If the <BR>latter, find something that works beyond a = few=20 hours or a few days.<BR>><BR>> I have known a number = of day=20 traders over the years, and none used <BR>fundies, most didn't even = know what=20 the company did for business. Ignored <BR>sector or industry group, = earnings=20 (past or future), RS, etc. Several <BR>didn't even really know how to = read a=20 chart, simply relied on current <BR>momentum. The ones that did it=20 professionally spent upwards of 10 hours a <BR>day in front of their=20 monitor(s). One had 7 different monitors and two TVs <BR>he tried to = watch=20 continuously.<BR>><BR>> Tom = Worley<BR>> <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A><BR>> = =20 AIM: TexWorley<BR>><BR>> ----- Original = Message=20 -----<BR>> From: Gene=20 Ricci<BR>> To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>> =20 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 5:23 = PM<BR>> =20 Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with=20 fundamentals?<BR>><BR>><BR>> K, = thanks for=20 the clarification.<BR>><BR>> A couple of = weeks=20 ago I would have said 'no fundamentals... are you <BR>kidding=20 me'.<BR>><BR>> I've had several = discussions over=20 the past 2-3 weeks and as recently <BR>as last Thursday, I was told to = think=20 'out of the box' by a VP at <BR>WizeTrade. I signed up for their = 30-day trial=20 (week ago) and was in his <BR>office 'showing' him the shortcomings of = his=20 system. He showed me a sign <BR>that said... price is determined by = buyers and=20 sellers. He went on to say <BR>that all I had to do was to look at the = Green=20 (buy) and Red (sell) <BR>indicators.... green means more buyers than = sellers=20 and red more sellers <BR>than buyers. The program has charts.... felt = better=20 when I found that <BR>out.... turns out the charts were just time = intervals=20 intraday, day, week, <BR>month.... the lines on the chart were green = and red.=20 When the green crossed <BR>up over red, time to buy.... when red over = green=20 it's time to sell.<BR>><BR>> From = WizeTrade home=20 page or links.<BR>><BR>> The green = line=20 and the red line are summation formulas and not price <BR>lines or=20 = graphs<BR>><BR>> &nb= sp; =20 "No, WizetradeT is not based on "moving averages." WizetradeT <BR>uses = seven=20 key technical indicators to perform its complex "real-time" = <BR>calculations=20 at the rate of 800-1500 calculations per second. The seven key = <BR>indicators=20 are the previous day's closing price, the current day's opening = <BR>price,=20 high, low, every up tick, every down tick - which are then = <BR>exponentially=20 weighted to volume."<BR>><BR>> How can = this=20 system work, no fundamentals, stochastic, MACD, <BR>candlesticks, = CANSLIM,=20 etc.?? They seem to take pride in buying companies <BR>that they don't = know=20 much about or what the symbol stands for.... they do <BR>take pride in = the=20 fact that their software tells them immediately when <BR>there are = more buyers=20 than sellers, etc. .... BTW, they signaled to get out <BR>of ENE at=20 80+.<BR>><BR>> I was told that = fundamentals were=20 nothing more than a time waster and <BR>a poor placebo (in a nice=20 way).<BR>><BR>> I'm interested in = learning 'the=20 truth'. Certainly would be nice to <BR>quit looking at fundamentals = and all=20 that research as well as spending <BR>money on DGO/IBD.... etc. = WizeTrade also=20 eliminates the need to track or <BR>know anything about sector = rotation....=20 their buyers and sellers tell them <BR>all=20 that.<BR>><BR>> Is it possible that I've = been=20 wasting my time looking for data to <BR>support what I call a good=20 company?<BR>><BR>> Naw, can't=20 be!<BR>><BR>> Guess I'll just have to = try to=20 understand how and if their system <BR>works.... over the=20 holidays.<BR>><BR>> Disclaimer: I don't = work for=20 them and until my trial is over, I'm not <BR>even a=20 customer.<BR>> =20 Gene<BR>> ----- Original = Message=20 -----<BR>> From: Katherine=20 Malm<BR>> To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>> =20 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 2:55=20 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = Point of=20 View: Why bother with=20 = fundamentals?<BR>><BR>><BR>> = That=20 would mean any selection criteria that depended on something <BR>other = than=20 price/volume/volatility technical=20 indicators.<BR>><BR>> =20 Katherine<BR>> = - -----=20 Original Message = - -----<BR>> =20 From: Gene = Ricci<BR>> To:=20 <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>> =20 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 3:14=20 PM<BR>> Subject: = Re:=20 [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with=20 = <BR>fundamentals?<BR>><BR>><BR>> &n= bsp; =20 Please define "any sort of fundamental=20 = analysis"...<BR>><BR>> &nb= sp;=20 Thanks,<BR>> =20 = Gene<BR>><BR>>  = ; =20 ----- Original Message=20 = - -----<BR>> = =20 From: Katherine=20 = Malm<BR>> = To:=20 <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>> =20 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 10:12=20 AM<BR>> = Subject: [CANSLIM] Point of View: Why bother with=20 = fundamentals?<BR>><BR>><BR>> = =20 = Proposed:<BR>><BR>> = =20 If a typical CANSLIM/Intermediate term move in a stock lasts <BR>only = a few=20 weeks, and in good markets, only a few months, why bother = <BR>selecting=20 portfolio candidates using any sort of fundamental analysis? = <BR>Returns in=20 this time period are strictly based on price movement and can be = <BR>maximized=20 based on technical indicators and price/volume action=20 = alone.<BR>><BR>> &nb= sp; =20 Thoughts=20 = pro/con?<BR>><BR>> &= nbsp; =20 Katherine<BR>> << Datei: ATT00017.htm >> = <BR><BR>-<BR>-To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>-"unsubscribe = canslim". Do=20 not use quotes in your email.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01C196F8.070CCDE0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
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