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Subject: Re: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:52:47 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1B463.6D52F600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rob, Welcome to the list, glad you're here! I'll chime in to the discussion on LLUR, as I see it differently than = Tom. I do not see LLUR as a base at all. Instead, I see it as a stock in = an uptrend that happens to be printing a tight pattern that hugs an = uptrending moving average (MA). This pattern can go on for quite some = time as in the case of DLX. From a technical point of view, you would = enter on pullbacks. As with all CANSLIM sell rules, once the stock = breaks the top or bottom of the channel, this is a sell signal. An ascending base, however, is a different animal. Say a stock is in an = uptrend and then begins a consolidation period. Normally we expect that = to be a flat base (>=3D5wks), cup & handle (C&H-->=3D7wks), saucer & = handle (>=3D7wks), etc. The thing all these consolidation patterns have = in common is that they primarily correct *below* the pause point where = the consolidation begins, then, indicate their readiness to move on a = new ascent by breaking above the area of consolidation on volume. With = an ascending base (>=3D6wks), the pattern of consolidation is different = from these, usually due to choppy or sideways market conditions. What = looks like a small ascent is instead an area of consolidation in which = the stock tries several times to breakout unsuccessfully. In this case, = the area of consolidation will have a slightly upward bias. On the third = attempt, the stock, if successful, will break out of the pattern. In = this case, the break in pattern is a *buy* rather than *sell* signal.=20 As you've discovered, the list has plenty of acronyms used in everyday = discussion. Here are some of the more common: WON--William J. O'Neil HTMMIS--How to Make Money In Stocks B/O or BO--Breakout MA--Moving Average C&H or CwH--Cup and handle TA--Technical Analysis LLUR--lower left upper right IBD--Invstor's Business Daily DGO--DailyGraphs Online WWW--Tom "Worley's Weekend Weeview" in which Tom deftly summarizes = market conditions in 6 paragraphs or less. Katherine ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rob Miller=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:24 AM Subject: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) Tom, Thanks for answering my question. It seems that LLUR is not a = pattern, or base, in the true sense of the word. How does it differ from a stock = that has been in a smooth uptrend? For example, a stock could break out = from a cup w/handle and rise for several months or more in a nice smooth = uptrend. Would this then be considered an LLUR? My impression is that this is = a way to get into to a stock that has either not formed a level base or has = been rising indefinitely from a prior breakout. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the use of this pattern. In = the past, I've found buying an uptrending stock at the bottom of its = channel to be a good method. However, since I'm using CANSLIM as my primary = method, I'd like to fully understand how it fits in before I add it to my = arsenal. Thanks, Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Worley" <stkguru@netside.net> To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction > Hi Rob, and welcome to the group. > > The LLUR pattern was a contribution to this group by a former member = over > three years ago. More recently, IBD discovered the "ascending base" = which > has similar definitions. > > Best way to see the "base" is by tilting your head about 45 degrees = to the > left. Entry and exit points depend on whether you are trying to = trade short > or long term. For short term, it's critical to identify the moving = average > which marks the lower and upper sides of the trading range. For long = term, > entry is pretty much a matter of your choice. Take DLX for example. = You > could have thrown a dart and entered it anywhere you wanted over the = past > nine months or so, and still have a respectable profit now. And = that's > despite slow growth, 1.1% earnings growth for 2001, 6% estimated for = this > year, and today's announcement they may earn up to 9.6% (WOW!!!) = this year. > > Ideally, with a LLUR pattern, you want to see 12 months of a = consistent > pattern without measurable volatility. The tighter the daily trading range, > the better. And you also need to have all the standard CANSLIM = elements in > place (RS, EPS, etc.). > > Tom Worley > stkguru@netside.net > AIM: TexWorley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob Miller" <rmiller2@carolina.rr.com> > To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:28 PM > Subject: [CANSLIM] Introduction > > > > Hello All, > > > > I subscribed a few weeks ago but thought I would listen for a = while before > > introducing myself. An interesting group. I'm not new to = investing or > > CANSLIM, though I did stray for a while. I became interested in = CANSLIM > > about six years ago. After practicing CANSLI (M seemed irrelevant = at that > > time) for a couple of years, I began to ignore fundamentals just = as the > > market ignored them. I am well versed in technicals and that = became the > > hallmark of my strategy for the last year of the bull market. = Somewhat > > coincidentally, I got out of the market in March 2000 just before = the > Nasdaq > > fell apart. The coindicence is that although I saw signs of a = market > top, > > I went to cash for a different reason...vacation. Yes the market = fell > apart > > while I was on vacation. I have been largely out of the market = ever > since, > > with only a few trades along the way. I had also just finished = college > and > > was at my new career for only 9 months at the time. I have since devoted > > more time to my career and less to personal investing. That has = all > changed > > now. Last week I quit my job. After almost three years as an investment > > analyst (primarily mutual funds and retirement accounts) at a = small > startup > > firm, I decided that the promise of higher pay in the future was = no longer > > enough. I said "show me the money," and they said "we don't have = any." > > Also, while mutual fund analysis is surpisingly challenging and = fun, my > real > > interest is in stocks. So here I am, investing full time, at = least > > temporarily. > > > > Now for a question. I tried to look this up in the archives, but = I can't > > get the archives to work. How does the LLUR chart pattern fit the CANSLIM > > mold and how do you adapt the entry and exit methods? I don't = recall ever > > hearing O'Neil mention this chart. Is this a generally accepted exception > > to the basic chart patterns that O'Neil promotes? It's an = intriguing > > pattern given the lack of good bases out there, though it seems to = go > > against the basic CANSLIM buying philosophy. > > > > Rob Miller > > > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1B463.6D52F600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Hi Rob,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Welcome to the list, glad you're here!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll chime in to the discussion on LLUR, as I see it differently = than Tom.=20 I do not see LLUR as a base at all. Instead, I see it as a stock in an = uptrend=20 that happens to be printing a tight pattern that hugs an uptrending = moving=20 average (MA). This pattern can go on for quite some time as in the = case of=20 DLX. From a technical point of view, you would enter on pullbacks. = As with=20 all CANSLIM sell rules, once the stock breaks the top or bottom of the = channel,=20 this is a sell signal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>An ascending base, however, is a different animal. Say a stock is = in an=20 uptrend and then begins a consolidation period. Normally we expect that = to be a=20 flat base (>=3D5wks), cup & handle (C&H-->=3D7wks), saucer = &=20 handle (>=3D7wks), etc. The thing all these consolidation patterns = have in=20 common is that they primarily correct *below* the pause point where the=20 consolidation begins, then, indicate their readiness to move on a new = ascent by=20 breaking above the area of consolidation on volume. With an ascending = base=20 (>=3D6wks), the pattern of consolidation is different from these, = usually due=20 to choppy or sideways market conditions. What looks like a small ascent = is=20 instead an area of consolidation in which the stock tries several times = to=20 breakout unsuccessfully. In this case, the area of consolidation will = have a=20 slightly upward bias. On the third attempt, the stock, if successful, = will break=20 out of the pattern. In this case, the break in pattern is a *buy* rather = than=20 *sell* signal. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you've discovered, the list has plenty of acronyms used in = everyday=20 discussion. Here are some of the more common:</DIV> <DIV>WON--William J. O'Neil</DIV> <DIV>HTMMIS--How to Make Money In Stocks</DIV> <DIV>B/O or BO--Breakout</DIV> <DIV>MA--Moving Average</DIV> <DIV>C&H or CwH--Cup and handle</DIV> <DIV>TA--Technical Analysis</DIV> <DIV>LLUR--lower left upper right</DIV> <DIV>IBD--Invstor's Business Daily</DIV> <DIV>DGO--DailyGraphs Online</DIV> <DIV>WWW--Tom "Worley's Weekend Weeview" in which Tom deftly summarizes = market=20 conditions in 6 paragraphs or less.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Katherine</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Drmiller2@carolina.rr.com = href=3D"mailto:rmiller2@carolina.rr.com">Rob=20 Miller</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, = 2002 7:24=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM]=20 Introduction)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Tom,<BR><BR>Thanks for answering my question. It = seems=20 that LLUR is not a pattern, or<BR>base, in the true sense of the = word. =20 How does it differ from a stock that<BR>has been in a smooth = uptrend? =20 For example, a stock could break out from a<BR>cup w/handle and rise = for=20 several months or more in a nice smooth uptrend.<BR>Would this then be = considered an LLUR? My impression is that this is a way<BR>to = get into=20 to a stock that has either not formed a level base or has = been<BR>rising=20 indefinitely from a prior breakout.<BR><BR>Don't get me wrong, I'm not = criticizing the use of this pattern. In the<BR>past, I've found = buying=20 an uptrending stock at the bottom of its channel to<BR>be a good = method. =20 However, since I'm using CANSLIM as my primary method,<BR>I'd like to = fully=20 understand how it fits in before I add it to my=20 arsenal.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Rob<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message=20 -----<BR>From: "Tom Worley" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A>><BR>To: = <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>Sent:=20 Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:01 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [CANSLIM]=20 Introduction<BR><BR><BR>> Hi Rob, and welcome to the = group.<BR>><BR>>=20 The LLUR pattern was a contribution to this group by a former member=20 over<BR>> three years ago. More recently, IBD discovered the = "ascending=20 base" which<BR>> has similar definitions.<BR>><BR>> Best way = to see=20 the "base" is by tilting your head about 45 degrees to the<BR>> = left. =20 Entry and exit points depend on whether you are trying to=20 trade<BR>short<BR>> or long term. For short term, it's critical to = identify=20 the moving average<BR>> which marks the lower and upper sides of = the=20 trading range. For long term,<BR>> entry is pretty much a matter of = your=20 choice. Take DLX for example. You<BR>> could have thrown a dart and = entered=20 it anywhere you wanted over the past<BR>> nine months or so, and = still have=20 a respectable profit now. And that's<BR>> despite slow growth, 1.1% = earnings growth for 2001, 6% estimated for this<BR>> year, and = today's=20 announcement they may earn up to 9.6% (WOW!!!) = this<BR>year.<BR>><BR>>=20 Ideally, with a LLUR pattern, you want to see 12 months of a=20 consistent<BR>> pattern without measurable volatility. The tighter = the=20 daily trading<BR>range,<BR>> the better. And you also need to have = all the=20 standard CANSLIM elements in<BR>> place (RS, EPS, = etc.).<BR>><BR>>=20 Tom Worley<BR>> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A><BR>> = AIM:=20 TexWorley<BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: "Rob = Miller"=20 <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:rmiller2@carolina.rr.com">rmiller2@carolina.rr.com</A>>= <BR>>=20 To: <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>>=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:28 PM<BR>> Subject: [CANSLIM]=20 Introduction<BR>><BR>><BR>> > Hello All,<BR>> = ><BR>> >=20 I subscribed a few weeks ago but thought I would listen for a=20 while<BR>before<BR>> > introducing myself. An interesting=20 group. I'm not new to investing or<BR>> > CANSLIM, though = I did=20 stray for a while. I became interested in CANSLIM<BR>> > = about six=20 years ago. After practicing CANSLI (M seemed irrelevant=20 at<BR>that<BR>> > time) for a couple of years, I began to ignore = fundamentals just as the<BR>> > market ignored them. I am = well=20 versed in technicals and that became the<BR>> > hallmark of my = strategy=20 for the last year of the bull market. Somewhat<BR>> >=20 coincidentally, I got out of the market in March 2000 just before = the<BR>>=20 Nasdaq<BR>> > fell apart. The coindicence is that although = I=20 saw signs of a market<BR>> top,<BR>> > I went to cash = for a=20 different reason...vacation. Yes the market fell<BR>> = apart<BR>>=20 > while I was on vacation. I have been largely out of the = market=20 ever<BR>> since,<BR>> > with only a few trades along the = way. I=20 had also just finished college<BR>> and<BR>> > was at my new = career=20 for only 9 months at the time. I have since<BR>devoted<BR>> = > more=20 time to my career and less to personal investing. That has = all<BR>>=20 changed<BR>> > now. Last week I quit my job. After = almost=20 three years as an<BR>investment<BR>> > analyst (primarily mutual = funds=20 and retirement accounts) at a small<BR>> startup<BR>> > firm, = I=20 decided that the promise of higher pay in the future was = no<BR>longer<BR>>=20 > enough. I said "show me the money," and they said "we don't = have=20 any."<BR>> > Also, while mutual fund analysis is surpisingly = challenging=20 and fun, my<BR>> real<BR>> > interest is in stocks. So = here I=20 am, investing full time, at least<BR>> > temporarily.<BR>>=20 ><BR>> > Now for a question. I tried to look this up in = the=20 archives, but I<BR>can't<BR>> > get the archives to work. = How does=20 the LLUR chart pattern fit the<BR>CANSLIM<BR>> > mold and how do = you=20 adapt the entry and exit methods? I don't recall<BR>ever<BR>> = >=20 hearing O'Neil mention this chart. Is this a generally=20 accepted<BR>exception<BR>> > to the basic chart patterns that = O'Neil=20 promotes? It's an intriguing<BR>> > pattern given the lack = of good=20 bases out there, though it seems to go<BR>> > against the basic = CANSLIM=20 buying philosophy.<BR>> ><BR>> > Rob Miller<BR>> = ><BR>>=20 ><BR>> ><BR>> > -<BR>> > -To = subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 "<A = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>>= ;=20 > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> >=20 -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR>> = ><BR>> ><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> -<BR>> -To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>>= ; -In=20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your = email.<BR><BR><BR><BR>-<BR>-To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>-"unsubscribe = canslim". Do=20 not use quotes in your email.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1B463.6D52F600-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
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