Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Katherine Malm" <kmalm@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:25:22 -0600
Previous Article (by Subject): AW: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates Andreas Himmelreich
Articles sorted by: [Date]
[Author]
[Subject]
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C1B855.CF000320
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tom,
Well...this is exactly the reason that I believe posting returns is so =
dangerous. You should never feel the need to defend the numbers you =
post, it's your business what they are, how you calculate them, whether =
or not you should have to prove them with statements, etc. It's also =
your business whether you choose to share your returns with the group. I =
also *understand* David's point of view, though I can't say I completely =
*agree* with it. Just the same, I believe it is his business whether or =
not he chooses to speak his mind.
I hope what people will take away from all this is that one person's =
gain on the list is not at the expense of another's. While technically =
this is true in the marketplace, I think most of us would agree that we =
are tiny cogs in the great wheel of the market and that competing =
against ourselves over time is far more important than competing against =
each other. It seems the purpose of the list is to help each other =
become *better* at what we do and the thoughtful and enlightening posts =
by each and every person contributes to this goal.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tom Worley=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
Thanks for the defense, Katherine,
My claim of 76% return last year is a simple calculation of the net =
gain of the total portfolio divided by the value of the portfolio at the =
start of the year. If David chooses to suggest I am lying, I am willing =
to post my year end statement showing the net gain for the year (with =
the acct # and SS # concealed). I will, of course, also graciously =
accept his public apology.
My only "self controlled" account was my IRA, so there was no tax =
issue. My expenses for DGO and other net services was not considered in =
the calculation.
I was forced to liquidate my shares in my Employee Option Plan in late =
summer, and converted the Euros to US $ and brought them home (US =
residents were not permitted to swap into shares of the acquiring =
company, Allianz, a major insurer). Turned out to be a good thing as =
Allianz shares got sliced in half by September 11 attacks. I did not =
re-invest this money as I planned to use it for major renovations on my =
house. Since that plan has now been postponed, I fully invested this =
money on margin a few weeks ago. I did not consider it as "investable" =
money during 2001.
I worked as an active broker, without a single customer complaint, for =
eight years handling well over 200 clients. The entire relationship, =
usually conducted over the phone without ever having met the client, was =
totally based on trust. I learned over 4 decades ago it was easier to =
tell the truth and not waste energy trying to keep the story "straight". =
My personal accounts were always open to my clients to review if they =
wished. In 8 years, not a single one ever requested this. I know of no =
other stock broker that ever made a similar offer to his clients. Of =
course, they were paying me a commission, unlike David.
Because I have worked with WON's staff and products and CANSLIM for so =
many years, I understand the rules pretty well, and recognize when I am =
consciously violating them. It is for this reason that I do not post my =
stock picks, other than as a disclosure when they make the WWW list. =
What I do in my personal investing works for me, and I am comfortable =
with the risks I take. But I have repeatedly said that most investors =
should stay away from both small/micro cap stocks, as well as low =
priced. That I do both is a testament to my level of risk taking, as =
well as understanding of these type investments. It is also why I put in =
4 hours or so a day on the net, in addition to my 11-12 hour work day.
Best regards to you and please keep up all the quality posts you =
generously give us,
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM: TexWorley
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
Hi David,
Thanks for the kind words and I'd like to speak up in Tom's defense. =
He is square and straightforward about what he does at all times. He =
learned from WON early in his career and he has learned to mold CANSLIM =
to his personal preferences. I can't say that I agree with everything =
Tom does only in the sense that it is not "right for me." But that is =
far different than judging whether or not it is successful and/or "right =
for him."
With respect to telling returns, I think this is a *very* personal =
issue. I, for example, look upon returns and absolutely *anything* to do =
with what positions I am currently holding, what stocks I am looking at, =
what % winners vs. losers, etc. as extremely personal. I put it right up =
there with a question like "what's your salary" or "what's your net =
worth." I was recently hammered by several folks when I made a =
presentation in Dallas and would not reveal such things. I figure it's =
my business and mine alone. There's absolutely no way to win when such =
things are revealed. Either people believe that you are boasting, not =
telling the truth, that your earnings are paltry by comparison to their =
own, etc. etc. On the other hand, if someone reveals their returns, I =
figure that's their business as well. I view this as a personal choice =
and make no judgments either way. It's a tough market out there. In the =
end, I find it's far more important at the end of the day to be able to =
ask myself "did I do everything possible to earn the best returns that =
I am able." To me, if I can answer "yes" to that question, then I have =
had a successful day. I applaud Tom's returns, but I applaud his =
willingness to admit that his returns in '99 would have been more =
substantial if he'd focused on his portfolio with the same intensity =
that he did in '01. *That's* the message I take away from his statement.
--Katherine
While we're on the subject of returns, here's something that I wrote =
during a discussion over this very issue:
Returns.What Does That Mean?
I never make assumptions about the numbers people give when they =
specify returns. Here are some examples as to why. For all examples I'll =
use a simple total portfolio number of $100K at the beginning of the =
year. All percentages and dollar amounts are used only for the purpose =
of demonstration.
(1) Invested vs. Investable monies:
- Statement: I made 50% last year.=20
- Person A makes 50% on *invested* monies. Lets say A invests =
$10K and earns 50%. Total ending value =3D $15K. But what about the $90K =
that wasn't invested? Let's say it made 5% in bonds and/or cash. That =
means it's now worth $94,500. Total ending portfolio =3D $109,500. Total =
compounded returns for the year =3D 0.095%. That's less than 1%. =
Certainly doesn't make the same statement as "I made 50%."
- Person B makes 50% on *investable* monies. B invests $50K in =
bonds and/or cash. Say it earns 5%. Ending value =3D $52,500. The =
remaining is invested and earns enough so that the total portfolio earns =
50%. That means the ending portfolio is $150,000. Invested monies =
accounted for $97,500 of this ending value. This means that B turned =
$50K into $97.5K by the end of the year through active investing. Total =
returns on *invested* monies =3D 95%.=20
- Part of effective money management and risk control is to =
determine how much of your investable dollars you are willing to risk. =
Your ability to consistently earn a return on invested dollars will =
allow you to increase the percentage of investable dollars. Don't assume =
that every person who tells you they earned 50% is able to do this =
consistently. And certainly don't assume that all of their investable =
dollars earned 50%. Also keep in mind that there are actually people who =
would rather understate their returns than overstate them.
(2) Risk
- Statement: I earned 50% with this system.
- Person A earns 50% on invested dollars. Maximum drawdown on =
total portfolio -50%. Person A also margined 100% of their account to =
generate these returns. The average beta for the portfolio was 3 times =
the market average.
- Person B earns 50% on invested dollars. Maximum drawdown -10%. =
They did not margin and the average beta of the portfolio was 1.5 times =
the market average. This person by far earned the higher risk adjusted =
return.
- A good trader is able to consistently generate returns with =
the least amount of risk.
(3) Open positions at year's end
- Statement: I earned 50% last year.
- Person A had 5 open positions on 12/31 that accounted for =
15% of that gain. On January 15th of the following year, the market dive =
bombed and they were forced to sell at a loss.
- Person B had 5 open positions on 12/31 that accounted for =
15% of potential gains. Until these gains are monetized, they do not =
include them in the total for the year.
- Intermediate term investors will often carry a position =
for several weeks to several months. Until you sell the position =
(monetize it), the gains are fairy dust. The bank might be willing to =
lend you money against the value of your assets, but these dollars are =
not "real" until they are in your pocket. If you have any doubts, go ask =
Barry Ebbers of Worldcom why he had to sell stock to satisfy the bank.
(4) Average vs Compounded returns
- Statement: I earn 50% on average.
- Person A earned 200% one year and (-100%) the next. Average =
return is (200-100)/2 =3D 50%. Sound impressive? They're flat broke.
- Person B earned an average 50% compounded return over the last =
5 years. That means that if they started with $100K year one, they now =
have $100K*(1.50)^5 =3D $759,375. (Even after 2 years, they have =
$225,000)
(5) Annualized vs Actual
- Statement: I earned 50% on that trade.
- Person A made an investment during the year that earned =
12.5% in 2 weeks. They have annualized this as 12.5% * (10days/250days) =
=3D 50%.
- Person B made an investment that returned 50% in two =
months. They have an annualized return on this investment of =
approximately 50% * (40days/250days) =3D 800%
(6) Personal Ownership v. Professional Management
- Statement: I earned 50% last year.
- Person A has 10% of their money in an account that they manage =
personally. The remaining 90% is with a money manger. They earned 50% on =
only 10% of their money.
- Person B takes responsibility for 100% of their investable =
assets. They earned 50% on 100% of those investable assets.
(7) Gross vs. Net Returns
- Statement: I earned 50% last year.
- Person A made 50% *gross* returns on investable assets. =
Their ending portfolio was $150,000. This does not include the $2K they =
spent purchasing various trading systems nor commissions paid during the =
year to generate these returns. A treats their investments like a hobby =
and spends money freely to find "a better system."
- Person B made 50% *net* returns on investable assets. They =
spent $2K in commissions; subscriptions to business and investing =
magazines, newspapers and tools; investing books; investing seminars and =
the associated costs to attend these seminars. B treats their =
investments like a business and evaluates all tools and expenditures as =
to how they generate a return on investment.
(8) Taxable vs Tax Deferred Account/Before vs After Tax
- Statement: I earned 50% last year.
- Person A earned 50% in their tax deferred IRA.
- Person B earned 50% *after taxes* in their taxable account.
Conclusion: Numbers alone don't tell you a darned thing.
--Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David Squires=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
>>Your comments about EPIQ as a "big winner" in the portfolio =
remind me of comments I often hear from others when we have discussions =
about the big winners in our portfolios. On one hand, it really bugs me =
to hear people say "well, yeah, of course you had great returns, you had =
XXXX an YYYY....you were just lucky." Excuse me? I found XXXX and YYYY =
using the same methodical diligence I apply to all my buys. The =
difference is, these guys never triggered sell rules like all the =
others. Last Fall, I listened to a presentation by Kevin Marder, a hedge =
fund manager and a CANSLIM-style investor. He said the same thing that =
I've heard from other successful investors. "At the end of each year I =
give my accountant a list of my trades for tax purposes. On that list =
are a bunch of trades with very small losses. Also on that list are some =
really big gains that were responsible for most of my returns for the =
year. This happens every year without exception."<<
Katherine,
You are a true gem...my hat is off to you and eye open to =
everything you write...from my experience....you indeed "get it". =
However, I'm not so sure Tom should be cast in the light of Kevin =
Marder. What's the point of telling everyone what you netted last =
year??......it's a totally unverifiable assertion and only fodder for =
ones online ego. Spare me. It still amazes me the proclaimed master of =
the CANSLIM list,...."routinely violates CANSLIM rules" and everyone =
just sits there. I guess everyone's numb from a 2 year bear raid.
DSquires
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
Hi Tom,
Your comments about EPIQ as a "big winner" in the portfolio =
remind me of comments I often hear from others when we have discussions =
about the big winners in our portfolios. On one hand, it really bugs me =
to hear people say "well, yeah, of course you had great returns, you had =
XXXX an YYYY....you were just lucky." Excuse me? I found XXXX and YYYY =
using the same methodical diligence I apply to all my buys. The =
difference is, these guys never triggered sell rules like all the =
others. Last Fall, I listened to a presentation by Kevin Marder, a hedge =
fund manager and a CANSLIM-style investor. He said the same thing that =
I've heard from other successful investors. "At the end of each year I =
give my accountant a list of my trades for tax purposes. On that list =
are a bunch of trades with very small losses. Also on that list are some =
really big gains that were responsible for most of my returns for the =
year. This happens every year without exception."
On the other hand, a comment such as "you were just lucky" makes =
me smile and nod in agreement, because I define luck as "being prepared =
when the opportunity arises and being willing to seize it." Yes, big =
winners are about luck in that sense. Finally, one of my favorite quotes =
and one that always stays in view at my desk:
"Opportunities are usually disguised as hard work, so most =
people don't recognize them." --Anne Landers
Here's to "big winners" and your continued "good luck"!
Cheers,
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tom Worley=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
Your memory is pretty good, altho I consider buying small caps =
as much
closer to classic CANSLIM rules for "S" than IBD or WON =
currently pushes.
I wasn't losing money during the roaring bulls, just not =
making what I
could. But that was not the fault of my application of =
CANSLIM, it was a
direct consequence of total neglect of my portfolio due =
dedication and hours
spent on my day job. But even with total neglect, I still =
managed about 12%
or so without trading, so at least better than a money market.
You are correct also that EPIQ was a major contributor to my =
profits in
2001, and I expect it to continue contributing in 2002. But I =
finished the
year with every stock I owned up for the year, and with =
minimal trading. I
only bought two new ones in 2001, the rest I had owned from =
prior years. So
far in 2002, I have added 6 new ones, and sold one (merger =
announced). Altho
three of the new ones are presently down, I am still up a =
little overall.
And having fun.
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM: TexWorley
----- Original Message -----
From: "esetser" <esetser@covad.net>
To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
Be careful here, Tom has his own special breed of CANSLIM, and =
it seems
that his returns have NOT been a good indicator of average =
returns in the
group. Unless I'm mistaken, Tom was losing money or breaking =
even back in
the roaring bull, so maybe it was just his turn!!
Tom does at least the following different from my approach =
(just from
memory):
1 - Microcaps only (below the minimum recommended by WON) (S?)
2 - Buys in the base before the breakout (Needs to because of =
1)
3 - Doesn't use Industry Group Strength as a leader/laggard =
indicator (I)
4 - Buys in all markets (M)
>From my perspective, he violates the normal rules for S, I, =
and M.
However, Tom does admit to this, and doesn't even generally =
post his
selections due to these variations.
Given the differences, I think it should be expected that =
Tom's performance
over a given year will vary from many of us. (And there is =
that one stock
that has appreciated several times his original investment =
that is
impacting the results too!)
One other note. >From my perspective, Tom's value to the =
group is his
willingness to take the time to review most anyone's =
suggestions and
selections and give great detail in his responses. His =
general approach
may not follow CANSLIM exactly, but his postings to the group =
do following
WON quite closely. He is our master educator on the =
technique, and gives a
lot of time and effort to the group.
FWIW, I ended up 2001 with about a 13% loss and am down about =
6% more this
year so far. Presently, I am only 25% invested with one =
position. I am
not really responding on the group much, since I do not feel I =
have the
experience to short, and I am waiting for "M" to clear up =
before new
purchases.
At 11:36 AM 2/16/02 +0100, you wrote:
>I think Tom bend only one rule --> stay out of the market if =
there is a
>downtrend in the overall market.
>
>But as I said, if you choose small caps and or IGs that are =
going up, no
>problem making money on the long side.
>Just look on the builders or on the gold stocks latley ...
>
>BUT NEVER, NEVER buy stocks when the market and the IG is =
down.
>I have not seen one example where a member of the group does =
not break down
>then (besides its a small cap) as well.
>
>Some IGs are just setting up a bull market for its members no =
matter what
>the market is doing.
>
>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Tom Worley [SMTP:stkguru@netside.net]
>> Gesendet am: Saturday, February 16, 2002 6:19 AM
>> An: canslim@lists.xmission.com
>> Betreff: Re: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
>>
>> While I routinely violate CANSLIM rules, nonetheless my =
entire process is
>heavily based in CANSLIM. And I netted 76% for the full year, =
so yeah, I
>made a net profit.
>>
>> Tom Worley
>> stkguru@netside.net
>> AIM: TexWorley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: David Squires
>> To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 12:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
>>
>>
>> haven't shorted in years, fully invested year round, made =
lots of $$
>last year, and profitable so far this year (including my =
fully margined
>account).
>>
>> >>fully invested year round, made lots of $$ last year<<
>>
>> You were fully invested last year long and made a net =
profit? You
>better call George Soros! BTW, is this even remotely CANSLIM.
>>
>> DSquires
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tom Worley
>> To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
>>
>>
>> haven't shorted in years, fully invested year round, =
made lots of $$
>last year, and profitable so far this year (including my =
fully margined
>account).
>>
>> Tom Worley
>> stkguru@netside.net
>> AIM: TexWorley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dan Forant
>> To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 8:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
>>
>>
>> Of course it's absurd. If anyone's been in the market =
for the past
>year and hasn't shorted and made $$, they are either very =
lucky or far
>better than the average investor. There was no shortage of =
stocks to short
>in TC2000 and candlesticks.
>>
>> L8ter
>> DanF
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ian
>> To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 11:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
>>
>>
>> I find it almost absurd that WON discourages =
shorting. Almost all
>of WON's ideas appear to have originated with Jesse =
Livermore, who made the
>bulk of his money on the short side. The rules for selling a =
big CANSLIM
>winner make for perfect short candidates. Although selling a =
failed
>breakout as it returns into its base is NOT typically a good =
short
>candidate. JMHO.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Rob Miller
>> To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:40 AM
>> Subject: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates
>>
>>
>> Even if we have a FTD from here, I see few stocks =
worth buying.
> However, my short list is overflowing. The only moderately =
attractive
>stocks I see on the long side are those already in an uptrend =
that are
>riding their lower channel.
>>
>> Is shorting considered off limits for this list? =
I know that
>WON discourages it, but he also claimed to make good money =
from shorts in
>HTMMIS. As I understand it, he discourages it as a medium =
for the masses,
>nor necessarily for everyone.
>>
>> Rob
>> << Datei: ATT00014.htm >>
-
-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C1B855.CF000320
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Tom,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well...this is exactly the reason that I believe posting returns is =
so=20
dangerous. You should never feel the need to defend the numbers you =
post, it's=20
your business what they are, how you calculate them, whether or not you =
should=20
have to prove them with statements, etc. It's also your business whether =
you=20
choose to share your returns with the group. I also *understand* David's =
point=20
of view, though I can't say I completely *agree* with it. Just the same, =
I=20
believe it is his business whether or not he chooses to speak his =
mind.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I hope what people will take away from all this is that one =
person's gain=20
on the list is not at the expense of another's. While technically this =
is true=20
in the marketplace, I think most of us would agree that we are tiny cogs =
in the=20
great wheel of the market and that competing against ourselves over time =
is far=20
more important than competing against each other. It seems the purpose =
of the=20
list is to help each other become *better* at what we do and the =
thoughtful and=20
enlightening posts by each and every person contributes to this =
goal.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Katherine</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dstkguru@netside.net href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">Tom =
Worley</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 18, 2002 =
6:05=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack =
of Buy=20
Candidates</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Thanks for the defense, =
Katherine,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>My claim of 76% return last year is a simple =
calculation=20
of the net gain of the total portfolio divided by the value of the =
portfolio=20
at the start of the year. If David chooses to suggest I am lying, I am =
willing=20
to post my year end statement showing the net gain for the year (with =
the acct=20
# and SS # concealed). I will, of course, also graciously accept his =
public=20
apology.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>My only "self controlled" account was my IRA, =
so there=20
was no tax issue. My expenses for DGO and other net services was not=20
considered in the calculation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I was forced to liquidate my shares in my =
Employee=20
Option Plan in late summer, and converted the Euros to US $ and =
brought them=20
home (US residents were not permitted to swap into shares of the =
acquiring=20
company, Allianz, a major insurer). Turned out to be a good thing as =
Allianz=20
shares got sliced in half by September 11 attacks. I did not re-invest =
this=20
money as I planned to use it for major renovations on my house. Since =
that=20
plan has now been postponed, I fully invested this money on margin a =
few weeks=20
ago. I did not consider it as "investable" money during =
2001.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I worked as an active broker, without a single =
customer=20
complaint, for eight years handling well over 200 clients. The entire=20
relationship, usually conducted over the phone without ever having met =
the=20
client, was totally based on trust. I learned over 4 decades ago it =
was easier=20
to tell the truth and not waste energy trying to keep the story=20
"straight". My personal accounts were always open to my clients =
to=20
review if they wished. In 8 years, not a single one ever requested =
this. I=20
know of no other stock broker that ever made a similar offer to his =
clients.=20
Of course, they were paying me a commission, unlike =
David.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Because I have worked with WON's staff and =
products and=20
CANSLIM for so many years, I understand the rules pretty well, and =
recognize=20
when I am consciously violating them. It is for this reason that I do =
not post=20
my stock picks, other than as a disclosure when they make the WWW =
list. What I=20
do in my personal investing works for me, and I am comfortable with =
the risks=20
I take. But I have repeatedly said that most investors should stay =
away from=20
both small/micro cap stocks, as well as low priced. That I do both is =
a=20
testament to my level of risk taking, as well as understanding of =
these type=20
investments. It is also why I put in 4 hours or so a day on the net, =
in=20
addition to my 11-12 hour work day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Best regards to you and please keep up all the =
quality=20
posts you generously give us,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Tom Worley<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A><BR>AIM:=20
TexWorley</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net =
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine=20
Malm</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 17, =
2002 10:31=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AW: [CANSLIM] =
Lack of Buy=20
Candidates</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi David,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the kind words and I'd like to speak up in Tom's =
defense. He=20
is square and straightforward about what he does at all times. He =
learned=20
from WON early in his career and he has learned to mold CANSLIM to =
his=20
personal preferences. I can't say that I agree with everything Tom =
does only=20
in the sense that it is not "right for me." But that is far =
different than=20
judging whether or not it is successful and/or "right for =
him."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>With respect to telling returns, I think this is a *very* =
personal=20
issue. I, for example, look upon returns and absolutely *anything* =
to do=20
with what positions I am currently holding, what stocks I am looking =
at,=20
what % winners vs. losers, etc. as extremely personal. I put it =
right up=20
there with a question like "what's your salary" or "what's your net =
worth."=20
I was recently hammered by several folks when I made a presentation =
in=20
Dallas and would not reveal such things. I figure it's my business =
and mine=20
alone. There's absolutely no way to win when such things are =
revealed.=20
Either people believe that you are boasting, not telling the truth, =
that=20
your earnings are paltry by comparison to their own, etc. etc. On =
the other=20
hand, if someone reveals their returns, I figure that's their =
business as=20
well. I view this as a personal choice and make no judgments either =
way.=20
It's a tough market out there. In the end, I find it's far more =
important at=20
the end of the day to be able to ask myself "did I do =
everything=20
possible to earn the best returns that I am able." To me, if I can =
answer=20
"yes" to that question, then I have had a successful day. I applaud =
Tom's=20
returns, but I applaud his willingness to admit that his returns in =
'99=20
would have been more substantial if he'd focused on his portfolio =
with the=20
same intensity that he did in '01. *That's* the message I take away =
from his=20
statement.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--Katherine</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>While we're on the subject of returns, here's something that I =
wrote=20
during a discussion over this very issue:</DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><STRONG>Returns…What Does That=20
Mean?<o:p></o:p></STRONG></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>I never make assumptions about the numbers =
people give=20
when they specify returns. Here are some examples as to why. For all =
examples I'll use a simple total portfolio number of $100K at the =
beginning=20
of the year. All percentages and dollar amounts are used only for =
the=20
purpose of demonstration.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>(1) Invested vs. Investable monies:</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Statement: I made 50% last year. </P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Person A makes 50% on *invested* monies. Lets say A invests =
$10K and=20
earns 50%. Total ending value =3D $15K. But what about the $90K that =
wasn't=20
invested? Let's say it made 5% in bonds and/or cash. That means it's =
now=20
worth $94,500. Total ending portfolio =3D $109,500. Total compounded =
returns=20
for the year =3D 0.095%. That's less than 1%. Certainly doesn't make =
the same=20
statement as "I made 50%."</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Person B makes 50% on *investable* monies. B invests $50K in =
bonds=20
and/or cash. Say it earns 5%. Ending value =3D $52,500. The =
remaining is=20
invested and earns enough so that the total portfolio earns 50%. =
That means=20
the ending portfolio is $150,000. Invested monies accounted for =
$97,500 of=20
this ending value. This means that B turned $50K into $97.5K by the =
end of=20
the year through active investing. Total returns on *invested* =
monies =3D=20
95%. </P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Part of effective money management and risk control is to =
determine=20
how much of your investable dollars you are willing to risk. Your =
ability to=20
consistently earn a return on invested dollars will allow you =
to=20
increase the percentage of investable dollars. Don't assume that =
every=20
person who tells you they earned 50% is able to do this =
consistently. And=20
certainly don't assume that all of their investable dollars earned =
50%. Also=20
keep in mind that there are actually people who would rather =
understate=20
their returns than overstate them.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>(2) Risk</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Statement: I earned 50% with this system.</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Person A earns 50% on invested dollars. Maximum drawdown on =
total=20
portfolio -50%. Person A also margined 100% of their account to =
generate=20
these returns. The average beta for the portfolio was 3 times the =
market=20
average.</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Person B earns 50% on invested dollars. Maximum drawdown =
- -10%. They=20
did not margin and the average beta of the portfolio was 1.5 times =
the=20
market average. This person by far earned the higher risk adjusted=20
return.</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>A good trader is able to consistently generate returns with =
the least=20
amount of risk.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>(3) Open positions at year's end</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> -<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Statement: I earned 50% last year.</P>
<P class=3DIndented=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 39pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: =
list 39.0pt">-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Person A had 5 open positions on 12/31 that accounted for 15% =
of that=20
gain. On January 15<SUP>th</SUP> of the following year, the market =
dive=20
bombed and they were forced to sell at a loss.</P>
<P class=3DIndented=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 39pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: =
list 39.0pt">-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Person B had 5 open positions on 12/31 that accounted for 15% =
of=20
potential gains. Until these gains are monetized, they do not =
include them=20
in the total for the year.</P>
<P class=3DIndented=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 39pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: =
list 39.0pt">-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Intermediate term investors will often carry a position for =
several=20
weeks to several months. Until you sell the position (monetize it), =
the=20
gains are fairy dust. The bank might be willing to lend you money =
against=20
the value of your assets, but these dollars are not =
“real” until they are in=20
your pocket. If you have any doubts, go ask Barry Ebbers of Worldcom =
why he=20
had to sell stock to satisfy the bank.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>(4) Average vs Compounded returns</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>-<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Statement: I earn 50% on average.</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Person A earned 200% one year and (-100%) the next. Average =
return is=20
(200-100)/2 =3D 50%. Sound impressive? They're flat broke.</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Person B earned an average 50% compounded return over the =
last 5=20
years. That means that if they started with $100K year one, they now =
have=20
$100K*(1.50)^5 =3D $759,375. (Even after 2 years, they have =
$225,000)</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>(5) Annualized vs Actual</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> -<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Statement: I earned 50% on that trade.</P>
<P class=3DIndented=20
style=3D"mso-list: l1 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list .5in">-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Person A made an investment during the year that earned 12.5% =
in 2=20
weeks. They have annualized this as 12.5% * (10days/250days) =3D =
50%.</P>
<P class=3DIndented=20
style=3D"mso-list: l1 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list .5in">-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Person B made an investment that returned 50% in two months. =
They=20
have an annualized return on this investment of approximately 50% *=20
(40days/250days) =3D 800%</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>(6) Personal Ownership v. Professional =
Management</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>-<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Statement: I earned 50% last year.</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Person A has 10% of their money in an account that they =
manage=20
personally. The remaining 90% is with a money manger. They earned =
50% on=20
only 10% of their money.</P>
<P class=3DIndented>-<SPAN style=3D"mso-tab-count: =
1"> =20
</SPAN>Person B takes responsibility for 100% of their investable =
assets.=20
They earned 50% on 100% of those investable assets.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>(7) Gross vs. Net Returns</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Statement: I earned 50% last year.</P>
<P class=3DIndented=20
style=3D"mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Person A made 50% *<B>gross*</B> returns on investable =
assets. Their=20
ending portfolio was $150,000. This does not include the $2K they =
spent=20
purchasing various trading systems nor commissions paid during the =
year to=20
generate these returns. A treats their investments like a hobby and =
spends=20
money freely to find “a better system.”</P>
<P class=3DIndented=20
style=3D"mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Person B made 50% *<B>net*</B> returns on investable assets. =
They=20
spent $2K in commissions; subscriptions to business and investing =
magazines,=20
newspapers and tools; investing books; investing seminars and the =
associated=20
costs to attend these seminars. B treats their investments like a =
business=20
and evaluates all tools and expenditures as to how they generate a =
return on=20
investment.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>(8) Taxable vs Tax Deferred Account/Before vs =
After=20
Tax</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Statement: I earned 50% last year.</P>
<P class=3DIndented=20
style=3D"mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">-<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>Person A earned 50% in their tax deferred IRA.</P>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; =
mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: =
AR-SA">- =20
Person B earned 50% *<B>after taxes</B>* in their taxable=20
account.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; =
mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: =
AR-SA"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; =
mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Conclusion:=20
Numbers alone don't tell you a darned thing.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; =
mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: =
AR-SA"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; =
mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: =
AR-SA">--Katherine</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddcsquires1@cox.net =
href=3D"mailto:dcsquires1@cox.net">David=20
Squires</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 17, =
2002 8:45=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AW: [CANSLIM] =
Lack of=20
Buy Candidates</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV>>>Your comments about EPIQ as a "big winner" in the =
portfolio=20
remind me of comments I often hear from others when we have =
discussions=20
about the big winners in our portfolios. On one hand, it =
really bugs=20
me to hear people say "well, yeah, of course you had great =
returns, you=20
had XXXX an YYYY....you were just lucky." Excuse me? I found XXXX =
and YYYY=20
using the same methodical diligence I apply to all my buys. The =
difference=20
is, these guys never triggered sell rules like all the others. =
Last Fall,=20
I listened to a presentation by Kevin Marder, a hedge fund manager =
and a=20
CANSLIM-style investor. He said the same thing that I've heard =
from other=20
successful investors. "At the end of each year I give my =
accountant a list=20
of my trades for tax purposes. On that list are a bunch of trades =
with=20
very small losses. Also on that list are some really big gains =
that were=20
responsible for most of my returns for the year. This happens =
every year=20
without exception."<<</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Katherine,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You are a true gem...my hat is off to you and eye open to =
everything=20
you write...from my experience....you indeed "get it". However, =
I'm not so=20
sure Tom should be cast in the light of Kevin Marder. What's the =
point of=20
telling everyone what you netted last year??......it's a totally=20
unverifiable assertion and only fodder for ones online ego. Spare =
me. It=20
still amazes me the proclaimed master of the CANSLIM =
list,...."routinely=20
violates CANSLIM rules" and everyone just sits there. I guess =
everyone's=20
numb from a 2 year bear raid.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>DSquires</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net =
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine=20
Malm</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February =
17, 2002=20
10:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AW: =
[CANSLIM] Lack of=20
Buy Candidates</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Tom,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your comments about EPIQ as a "big winner" in the portfolio =
remind=20
me of comments I often hear from others when we have discussions =
about=20
the big winners in our portfolios. On one hand, it =
really bugs me=20
to hear people say "well, yeah, of course you had great returns, =
you had=20
XXXX an YYYY....you were just lucky." Excuse me? I found XXXX =
and YYYY=20
using the same methodical diligence I apply to all my buys. The=20
difference is, these guys never triggered sell rules like all =
the=20
others. Last Fall, I listened to a presentation by Kevin Marder, =
a hedge=20
fund manager and a CANSLIM-style investor. He said the same =
thing that=20
I've heard from other successful investors. "At the end of each =
year I=20
give my accountant a list of my trades for tax purposes. On that =
list=20
are a bunch of trades with very small losses. Also on that list =
are some=20
really big gains that were responsible for most of my returns =
for the=20
year. This happens every year without exception."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On the other hand, a comment such as "you were just lucky" =
makes me=20
smile and nod in agreement, because I define luck as "being =
prepared=20
when the opportunity arises and being willing to seize it." Yes, =
big=20
winners are about luck in that sense. Finally, one of my =
favorite quotes=20
and one that always stays in view at my desk:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Opportunities are usually disguised as hard work, so most =
people=20
don't recognize them." --Anne Landers</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here's to "big winners" and your continued "good =
luck"!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV>
<DIV>Katherine</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dstkguru@netside.net =
href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">Tom=20
Worley</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, =
February 16, 2002=20
3:34 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AW: =
[CANSLIM] Lack=20
of Buy Candidates</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Your memory is pretty good, altho I consider =
buying=20
small caps as much<BR>closer to classic CANSLIM rules for "S" =
than IBD=20
or WON currently pushes.<BR><BR>I wasn't losing money during =
the=20
roaring bulls, just not making what I<BR>could. But that was =
not the=20
fault of my application of CANSLIM, it was a<BR>direct =
consequence of=20
total neglect of my portfolio due dedication and =
hours<BR>spent on my=20
day job. But even with total neglect, I still managed about =
12%<BR>or=20
so without trading, so at least better than a money =
market.<BR><BR>You=20
are correct also that EPIQ was a major contributor to my =
profits=20
in<BR>2001, and I expect it to continue contributing in 2002. =
But I=20
finished the<BR>year with every stock I owned up for the year, =
and=20
with minimal trading. I<BR>only bought two new ones in 2001, =
the rest=20
I had owned from prior years. So<BR>far in 2002, I have added =
6 new=20
ones, and sold one (merger announced). Altho<BR>three of the =
new ones=20
are presently down, I am still up a little overall.<BR>And =
having=20
fun.<BR><BR>Tom Worley<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A><BR>AIM:=20
TexWorley<BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "esetser" =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:esetser@covad.net">esetser@covad.net</A>><BR>To:=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
><BR>Sent:=20
Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:01 AM<BR>Subject: Re: AW: =
[CANSLIM]=20
Lack of Buy Candidates<BR><BR><BR>Be careful here, Tom has his =
own=20
special breed of CANSLIM, and it seems<BR>that his returns =
have NOT=20
been a good indicator of average returns in =
the<BR>group. Unless=20
I'm mistaken, Tom was losing money or breaking even back =
in<BR>the=20
roaring bull, so maybe it was just his turn!!<BR><BR>Tom does =
at least=20
the following different from my approach (just=20
from<BR>memory):<BR><BR>1 - Microcaps only (below the minimum=20
recommended by WON) (S?)<BR>2 - Buys in the base before the =
breakout=20
(Needs to because of 1)<BR>3 - Doesn't use Industry Group =
Strength as=20
a leader/laggard indicator (I)<BR>4 - Buys in all markets=20
(M)<BR><BR>>From my perspective, he violates the normal =
rules for=20
S, I, and M.<BR>However, Tom does admit to this, and doesn't =
even=20
generally post his<BR>selections due to these =
variations.<BR><BR>Given=20
the differences, I think it should be expected that Tom's=20
performance<BR>over a given year will vary from many of =
us. (And=20
there is that one stock<BR>that has appreciated several times =
his=20
original investment that is<BR>impacting the results =
too!)<BR><BR>One=20
other note. >From my perspective, Tom's value to the =
group is=20
his<BR>willingness to take the time to review most anyone's=20
suggestions and<BR>selections and give great detail in his=20
responses. His general approach<BR>may not follow =
CANSLIM=20
exactly, but his postings to the group do following<BR>WON =
quite=20
closely. He is our master educator on the technique, and =
gives=20
a<BR>lot of time and effort to the group.<BR><BR>FWIW, I ended =
up 2001=20
with about a 13% loss and am down about 6% more this<BR>year =
so=20
far. Presently, I am only 25% invested with one=20
position. I am<BR>not really responding on the =
group much,=20
since I do not feel I have the<BR>experience to short, and I =
am=20
waiting for "M" to clear up before=20
new<BR>purchases.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>At 11:36 AM 2/16/02 =
+0100, you=20
wrote:<BR>>I think Tom bend only one rule --> stay out =
of the=20
market if there is a<BR>>downtrend in the overall=20
market.<BR>><BR>>But as I said, if you choose small caps =
and or=20
IGs that are going up, no<BR>>problem making money on the =
long=20
side.<BR>>Just look on the builders or on the gold stocks =
latley=20
...<BR>><BR>>BUT NEVER, NEVER buy stocks when the market =
and the=20
IG is down.<BR>>I have not seen one example where a member =
of the=20
group does not break down<BR>>then (besides its a small =
cap) as=20
well.<BR>><BR>>Some IGs are just setting up a bull =
market for=20
its members no matter what<BR>>the market is=20
doing.<BR>><BR>>> -----Urspr=FCngliche=20
Nachricht-----<BR>>> Von: Tom Worley=20
[SMTP:stkguru@netside.net]<BR>>> Gesendet am: Saturday, =
February=20
16, 2002 6:19 AM<BR>>> An: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
<BR>>>=20
Betreff: Re: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy =
Candidates<BR>>><BR>>>=20
While I routinely violate CANSLIM rules, nonetheless my entire =
process=20
is<BR>>heavily based in CANSLIM. And I netted 76% for the =
full=20
year, so yeah, I<BR>>made a net =
profit.<BR>>><BR>>> Tom=20
Worley<BR>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A><BR>>>=20
AIM: TexWorley<BR>>> ----- Original Message=20
-----<BR>>> From: David=20
Squires<BR>>> To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
<BR>>> =20
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 12:11 =
AM<BR>>> =20
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy=20
Candidates<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> =
haven't=20
shorted in years, fully invested year round, made lots of=20
$$<BR>>last year, and profitable so far this year =
(including my=20
fully =
margined<BR>>account).<BR>>><BR>>> =20
>>fully invested year round, made lots of $$ last=20
year<<<BR>>><BR>>> You were =
fully=20
invested last year long and made a net profit? =
You<BR>>better call=20
George Soros! BTW, is this even remotely=20
CANSLIM.<BR>>><BR>>> =20
DSquires<BR>>> ----- Original =
Message=20
-----<BR>>> From: Tom=20
Worley<BR>>> To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
<BR>>> =20
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:47=20
PM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] =
Lack of=20
Buy=20
=
Candidates<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> =20
haven't shorted in years, fully invested year round, made lots =
of=20
$$<BR>>last year, and profitable so far this year =
(including my=20
fully=20
=
margined<BR>>account).<BR>>><BR>>> =
=20
Tom Worley<BR>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A><BR>>>&n=
bsp; =20
AIM: TexWorley<BR>>> =
- -----=20
Original Message =
- -----<BR>>> =20
From: Dan =
Forant<BR>>> To:=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
<BR>>> =20
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 8:03=20
PM<BR>>> Subject: =
Re:=20
[CANSLIM] Lack of Buy=20
=
Candidates<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> &nb=
sp; =20
Of course it's absurd. If anyone's been in the market for the=20
past<BR>>year and hasn't shorted and made $$, they are =
either very=20
lucky or far<BR>>better than the average investor. There =
was no=20
shortage of stocks to short<BR>>in TC2000 and=20
=
candlesticks.<BR>>><BR>>> =
=20
L8ter<BR>>> =20
=
DanF<BR>>> -----=20
Original Message=20
=
- -----<BR>>> =20
From: =
Ian<BR>>> =20
To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
<BR>>> =20
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 11:13=20
AM<BR>>> =
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy=20
=
Candidates<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> &nb=
sp; =20
I find it almost absurd that WON discourages shorting. Almost=20
all<BR>>of WON's ideas appear to have originated with Jesse =
Livermore, who made the<BR>>bulk of his money on the short =
side.=20
The rules for selling a big CANSLIM<BR>>winner make for =
perfect=20
short candidates. Although selling a failed<BR>>breakout as =
it=20
returns into its base is NOT typically a good =
short<BR>>candidate.=20
=
JMHO.<BR>>><BR>>> &n=
bsp;=20
=
Ian<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> &nbs=
p; =20
----- Original Message=20
=
- -----<BR>>> &n=
bsp;=20
From: Rob=20
=
Miller<BR>>> &=
nbsp;=20
To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
<BR>>> =
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:40=20
=
AM<BR>>>  =
;=20
Subject: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy=20
=
Candidates<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> &nb=
sp; =20
Even if we have a FTD from here, I see few stocks worth=20
buying.<BR>> However, my short list is overflowing. =
The only=20
moderately attractive<BR>>stocks I see on the long side are =
those=20
already in an uptrend that are<BR>>riding their lower=20
=
channel.<BR>>><BR>>>  =
; =20
Is shorting considered off limits for this list? I know=20
that<BR>>WON discourages it, but he also claimed to make =
good money=20
from shorts in<BR>>HTMMIS. As I understand it, he =
discourages=20
it as a medium for the masses,<BR>>nor necessarily for=20
=
everyone.<BR>>><BR>>> &nbs=
p; =20
Rob<BR>>> << Datei: ATT00014.htm=20
>><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-<BR>-To subscribe/unsubscribe, =
email "<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>-In=
=20
the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>-"unsubscribe=20
canslim". Do not use quotes in your=20
=
email.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C1B855.CF000320--
- -
- -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
- -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
- -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
Previous Article (by Subject): AW: AW: [CANSLIM] Lack of Buy Candidates Andreas Himmelreich
Articles sorted by: [Date]
[Author]
[Subject]