Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "david frank" <camelot.homes@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] canslim-the best system?
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:02:37 -0600
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yes, and i believe WON gives a warning to the wise in his book, about =
not to expect buy patterns to work during bear markets. david,=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] canslim-the best system?
Dan,
Sorry, but I'll have to very much disagree with you on this. Smart =
investing means knowing what to look for, what to avoid, having a =
methodical discipline, and taking action when it is warranted. CANSLIM =
is nothing more than a set of guidelines for a particular discipline. =
There are specific buy rules and specific sell rules. People get into =
trouble when they break some of the guidelines in the discipline and pay =
attention only to those that they "feel" like following at the time. If =
nothing else, a CANSLIMer who chose not to take advantage of upswings in =
the market (and there were quite a few since March 2000) were at the =
very least in cash and on the sidelines for the last couple of years. If =
they closed out their positions according to sell rules in early 2000 =
there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't still be sitting on =
substantial gains from the last Big Bull.
More aggressive traders/investors would not have sat on the sidelines, =
but would have put on long positions in all upswings. More aggressive =
traders/investors would also have shorted the downswings.
That aside, it is not uncommon for folks to lose money when they are =
trying new things and I'd bet there are plenty who took some portion of =
their portfolio and did just that. That's how one learns new tricks. =
Things that do not work go in the trash heap, things that do go into the =
bag of tricks. But aside from new things there is really no reason to =
believe that CANSLIM as a discipline was a losing method over the last =
two years. Let's see...we had very nice runs in homebuilders, =
gaming/leisure, Aero/Defense, we have specific portions of the =
semiconductor industry (flat panel displays, graphics, etc), to name a =
few. Phyllis posted the result of AAII's portfolio based on CANSLIM =
filters for the last year. Those returns are nothing to sneeze at in a =
Bear (or any) market.
In summary, I wouldn't confuse discipline with methodology. That's not =
to say that there aren't folks who are highly disciplined that might =
have lost money, I'm saying that it's highly unlikely that they lost =
more than 10-20% of the total value in their portfolio over the last =
couple of years and far more likely that if they have been following =
CANSLIM guidelines that they have actually *made* money over the last =
couple of years.
With respect to "bonafide breakouts"--there is more to a CANSLIM =
breakout than a technical pattern. There has to be an underlying =
fundamental driver to keep the price rising and I think this is what is =
often missed when people fail to do due diligence. To simply take a =
statistical study of breakouts from C&H, etc. is *not* a meaningful =
measure of potential CANSLIM returns because CANSLIM is not a mechanical =
investing system, it is a *thinking* person's system and you can't run =
statistics on the myriad of factors that go into evaluating a potential =
long position.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dan Forant=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] canslim-the best system?
Katherine?=20
What? Let me get this straight, CANSLIMERS only wasted 11% of their =
portfolio since March 2000. Even if they played it to the letter. I'd =
like to see some hard numbers before I believed that. If possible maybe =
someone could run the bonefide break out stocks since March 2000 and =
we'll see what the numbers are. My moneys on more than 11% loss.
L8ter
DanF
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] canslim-the best system?
David and all,
Here's another statistic to add to the discussion:
According to Bill O'Neil, "80% to 90% of investors lost 50% to 75% =
of their equity" since the bear market began in March of 2000.=20
Ask yourself this question--"am I one of those statistics, or, as =
a result of following CANSLIM did I *keep* at least 80-90% of the value =
of my portfolio since March 2000" If you were following CANSLIM during =
the last couple of years, your answer will be "YES!"'
I truly believe that the stocks you *don't* buy are just as =
important as those you *do* buy.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: david frank=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:41 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] canslim-the best system?
since people are talking about honesty; is canslim the best =
system? that is what alot of people would like to know. that is why we =
would really want to know how much did you make using canslim last year =
or past years. i don't know if canslim is really the best system, i have =
never used it during a bull market. i have 7 figures available to =
trade-so i trade in 1,000 to 10,000 share lots. i might have made $50k =
last year but i traded very few days, cut my loses short, took small =
profits, and was lucky on most of my trades. actually trading mutual =
funds in past years have been easier since i could use all of my capital =
in one fund. talking about traders with large amount of money not =
trading canslim, how about WON stating in his seminar ads that his =
in-house money management team produced a return of 1,486% from 1998 =
through 2000. is this hype? i wonder how many shares of stock they trade =
on how much capital? when WON states that type of return--it sounds like =
canslim is worthy of the best system. i sure would like to see that tax =
return!!! but noboby on this list states that they have returns near =
that or have made even 100% in one year-past or present using nearly =
pure canslim principles. open to criticism and opinion. david frank
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>yes, and i believe WON gives a warning =
to the wise=20
in his book, about not to expect buy patterns to work during bear =
markets.=20
david, </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net =
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine=20
Malm</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 19, =
2002 9:34=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
canslim-the best=20
system?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dan,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sorry, but I'll have to very much disagree with you on this. =
Smart=20
investing means knowing what to look for, what to avoid, having a =
methodical=20
discipline, and taking action when it is warranted. CANSLIM is nothing =
more=20
than a set of guidelines for a particular discipline. There are =
specific buy=20
rules and specific sell rules. People get into trouble when they break =
some of=20
the guidelines in the discipline and pay attention only to those that =
they=20
"feel" like following at the time. If nothing else, a CANSLIMer who =
chose not=20
to take advantage of upswings in the market (and there were quite a =
few since=20
March 2000) were at the very least in cash and on the sidelines for =
the last=20
couple of years. If they closed out their positions according to sell =
rules in=20
early 2000 there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't still be =
sitting=20
on substantial gains from the last Big Bull.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>More aggressive traders/investors would not have sat on the =
sidelines,=20
but would have put on long positions in all upswings. More aggressive=20
traders/investors would also have shorted the downswings.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That aside, it is not uncommon for folks to lose money when they =
are=20
trying new things and I'd bet there are plenty who took some portion =
of their=20
portfolio and did just that. That's how one learns new tricks. Things =
that do=20
not work go in the trash heap, things that do go into the bag of =
tricks. But=20
aside from new things there is really no reason to believe that =
CANSLIM as a=20
discipline was a losing method over the last two years. Let's see...we =
had=20
very nice runs in homebuilders, gaming/leisure, Aero/Defense, we have =
specific=20
portions of the semiconductor industry (flat panel displays, graphics, =
etc),=20
to name a few. Phyllis posted the result of AAII's =
portfolio based=20
on CANSLIM filters for the last year. Those returns are nothing =
to sneeze=20
at in a Bear (or any) market.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In summary, I wouldn't confuse discipline with methodology. =
That's not to=20
say that there aren't folks who are highly disciplined that might have =
lost=20
money, I'm saying that it's highly unlikely that they lost more than =
10-20% of=20
the total value in their portfolio over the last couple of years and =
far more=20
likely that if they have been following CANSLIM guidelines that they =
have=20
actually *made* money over the last couple of years.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>With respect to "bonafide breakouts"--there is more to a CANSLIM =
breakout=20
than a technical pattern. There has to be an underlying fundamental =
driver to=20
keep the price rising and I think this is what is often missed when =
people=20
fail to do due diligence. To simply take a statistical study of =
breakouts from=20
C&H, etc. is *not* a meaningful measure of potential CANSLIM =
returns=20
because CANSLIM is not a mechanical investing system, it is a =
*thinking*=20
person's system and you can't run statistics on the myriad of factors =
that go=20
into evaluating a potential long position.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Katherine</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddforant1@nycap.rr.com =
href=3D"mailto:dforant1@nycap.rr.com">Dan=20
Forant</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 19, =
2002 9:06=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
canslim-the best=20
system?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Katherine? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What? Let me get this =
straight,=20
CANSLIMERS only wasted 11% of their portfolio since March 2000. Even =
if they=20
played it to the letter. I'd like to see some hard numbers before I =
believed=20
that. If possible maybe someone could run the bonefide break out =
stocks=20
since March 2000 and we'll see what the numbers are. My moneys on =
more than=20
11% loss.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>L8ter<BR>DanF</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net =
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine=20
Malm</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 19, =
2002 5:56=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
canslim-the=20
best system?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>David and all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here's another statistic to add to the discussion:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>According to Bill O’Neil, “80% to 90% of =
investors lost 50% to 75% of=20
their equity” since the bear market began in March of =
2000.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">Ask yourself this =
question--"am=20
I one of those statistics, or, as a result of following CANSLIM =
did I=20
*keep* at least 80-90% of the value of my portfolio since March =
2000" If=20
you were following CANSLIM during the last couple of years, your =
answer=20
will be "YES!"'</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">I truly believe that the=20
stocks you *don't* buy are just as important as those you =
*do*=20
buy.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">Katherine</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcamelot.homes@charter.net=20
href=3D"mailto:camelot.homes@charter.net">david frank</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February =
18, 2002=20
2:41 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] =
canslim-the best=20
system?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>since people are talking about =
honesty; is=20
canslim the best system? that is what alot of people would like =
to know.=20
that is why we would really want to know how much did you make =
using=20
canslim last year or past years. i don't know if canslim is =
really=20
the best system, i have never used it during a bull market. i =
have 7=20
figures available to trade-so i trade in 1,000 to 10,000 share =
lots. i=20
might have made $50k last year but i traded very few days, cut =
my loses=20
short, took small profits, and was lucky on most of my trades. =
actually=20
trading mutual funds in past years have been easier since i =
could=20
use all of my capital in one fund. talking about traders with =
large=20
amount of money not trading canslim, how about WON stating in =
his=20
seminar ads that his in-house money management team produced a =
return of=20
1,486% from 1998 through 2000. is this hype? i wonder how many =
shares of=20
stock they trade on how much capital? when WON states that type =
of=20
return--it sounds like canslim is worthy of the best system. i =
sure=20
would like to see that tax return!!! but noboby on this list =
states that=20
they have returns near that or have made even 100% in one =
year-past=20
or present using nearly pure canslim principles. open to =
criticism and=20
opinion. david=20
frank</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
ODY></HTML>
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