Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Tom Worley" <stkguru@netside.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership??
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:45:01 -0500
Previous Article (by Date): Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? "Rob Miller"
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I much prefer from 0% to 10% funds ownership. I never consider bank =
ownership, as I have found that they are often the proxy owner for =
otherwise unidentified holders. Occasionally, I will look at ownership =
by venture capitalists and pension funds.
I have very rarely bought a stock with funds ownership over 20-30% =
ownership, and usually then only because management had a very large =
stake (often 50-60%) leaving very few shares in the float (thus =
exaggerating the funds ownership percentage).
Even DGO's 13% funds ownership is quite high on a company with only 13.9 =
million shares outstanding.
I also note that sales growth seems slight compared to the large growth =
in earnings. Company has forecasted Q4 results (ending March) which =
continues this pattern. I would want to be sure this represents a shift =
to higher margin products and not just cost cutting.
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM: TexWorley
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rob Miller=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership??
Rich,
Sorry for the long winded answer...but...as you know, DGO only =
includes banks and funds. They exclude institutional sponsors, pension =
funds, endowments, etc. Bank and fund holdings tend to be more volatile =
which is why I think DGO includes them. Institutional sponsors will =
often hold stocks for political or other reasons. For example, an =
endowment may hold the stock of a company that they have some =
relationship with, or a investment management company may hold a stock =
because a wealthy client has directed them to do so. These holdings =
tend to change much less frequently. As for TALX, the reason for the =
abrupt change in ownership appears to be that their venture capitalist, =
HLM Management, sold all their holdings. At the end of the third =
quarter, HLM owned almost 27.5% of the stock, all of which was sold by =
year end. This is not uncommon. Venture capitalist firms are strong =
holders while they wait for their hand to play out, but once their =
objectives are met, they're gone.
It would be better if DGO included some institutional sponsors. A =
fund company like Janus could own 1 million shares total, but only =
100,000 shares in retail mutual funds. The rest would be in separately =
managed (private) accounts, which would not show up on DGO. Alas, that =
would be asking too much. =20
Rob =20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rich W=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership??
Rob,
I do have DGO and here is what they show today
Funds 13%, Banks 8 %, and Mgmt 12%
I just went back to Market guide and now they show 67% with 3.5m =
sold since last report.
this in 10 days ( not sure when this took place).
MSN also shows about the same now, but also showed big % on the 15th
when I wrote to DGO as to why they had so much smaller numbers, they
said they do not include as much ( can not find the answer now, was =
from the 15th).
So I am not sure who to check for ownership, but it does show one =
must check more
than one source for the facts.
the stock is TALX, a St.Louis Co.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I much prefer from 0% to 10% funds ownership. I =
never=20
consider bank ownership, as I have found that they are often the proxy =
owner for=20
otherwise unidentified holders. Occasionally, I will look at ownership =
by=20
venture capitalists and pension funds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have very rarely bought a stock with funds =
ownership=20
over 20-30% ownership, and usually then only because management had a =
very large=20
stake (often 50-60%) leaving very few shares in the float (thus =
exaggerating the=20
funds ownership percentage).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Even DGO's 13% funds ownership is quite high on =
a company=20
with only 13.9 million shares outstanding.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I also note that sales growth seems slight =
compared to the=20
large growth in earnings. Company has forecasted Q4 results (ending =
March) which=20
continues this pattern. I would want to be sure this represents a shift =
to=20
higher margin products and not just cost cutting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Tom Worley<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:stkguru@netside.net">stkguru@netside.net</A><BR>AIM:=20
TexWorley</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Drmiller2@carolina.rr.com =
href=3D"mailto:rmiller2@carolina.rr.com">Rob=20
Miller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 26, =
2002 7:45=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] what is =
to much=20
ownership??</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry for the long winded =
answer...but...as you=20
know, DGO only includes banks and funds. They exclude =
institutional=20
sponsors, pension funds, endowments, etc. Bank and fund holdings =
tend to=20
be more volatile which is why I think DGO includes them. =
Institutional=20
sponsors will often hold stocks for political or other reasons. =
For=20
example, an endowment may hold the stock of a company that =
they have=20
some relationship with, or a investment management company may hold a =
stock=20
because a wealthy client has directed them to do so. These =
holdings tend=20
to change much less frequently. As for TALX, the reason for =
the=20
abrupt change in ownership appears to be that their venture=20
capitalist, HLM Management, sold all their holdings. At the =
end of=20
the third quarter, HLM owned almost 27.5% of the stock, all =
of which=20
was sold by year end. This is not uncommon. Venture =
capitalist=20
firms are strong holders while they wait for their hand to =
play out,=20
but once their objectives are met, they're gone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It would be better if DGO included =
some=20
institutional sponsors. A fund company like Janus =
could own 1=20
million shares total, but only 100,000 shares in retail mutual =
funds. =20
The rest would be in separately managed (private) accounts, which =
would not=20
show up on DGO. Alas, that would be asking too=20
much. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Drich1334@brick.net =
href=3D"mailto:rich1334@brick.net">Rich W</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 26, =
2002 6:02=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] what =
is to much=20
ownership??</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Rob,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>I do have DGO and here is =
what they=20
show today</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Funds 13%, Banks 8 %, and =
Mgmt=20
12%</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>I just went back to =
Market guide and=20
now they show 67% with 3.5m sold since last report.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>this in 10 days ( not =
sure when this=20
took place).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>MSN also shows about the =
same now,=20
but also showed big % on the 15th</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>when I wrote to DGO as to =
why they=20
had so much smaller numbers, they</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>said they do not include =
as much (=20
can not find the answer now, was from the 15th).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>So I am not sure who to =
check for=20
ownership, but it does show one must check more</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>than one source for the=20
facts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>the stock is TALX, a =
St.Louis=20
Co.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Previous Article (by Date): Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? "Rob Miller"
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