Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Katherine Malm" <kmalm@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] NVR
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:54:23 -0500
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Mike,
You've changed my example from the numbers I was using. Let me go with =
your example. If the stock is $24.99, then the closest .50 mark is =
$25.00. I suppose I should have said "round to the nearest .50". That =
means the stop would be set at $25.00-0.13 =3D 24.87.
The whole idea of setting the stop below congestion in the first place =
is to stay out of the way if the stock simply moves into congestion =
again. Again, the stop would be set 0.10 below congestion if you're =
using a more standard interpretation. That means "standard" would be set =
at $24.89. My stop is set at $24.87. Only 2 cents difference on 24.99 =
congestion. You can't count the 0.10 as "cost" because its sunk under =
either rule of thumb. My "price" for sticking to odd numbers is =
0.02/24.99 =3D 0.0008, or 0.08%.=20
In my original example my "price" is the difference between the =
"standard" and the "odd rule" and is 0.02% not 3% as you originally =
suggested.
Throw away all the math for a moment...the point is that you pay a price =
for setting a stop in either case if you don't get out on your own ahead =
of the stop. When you set a stop, you are *choosing* an exit point and =
then letting someone else execute it. In either case, you don't =
necessarily exit at the stop price because fast trade will often drop =
the price below your stop before execution. That's why I prefer to use =
mental stops + sound discipline and exit when I wish to do so. Of =
course, that requires maintaining focus as well, something I've been =
known to screw up on every now and again. In that case, I chalk it up to =
tuition.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mike Gibbons=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] NVR
Hi Katherine,
I hope I'm not flogging a dead horse here... Perhaps my interpretation =
of your comment was incorrect or my math is fuzzy :-) . You said "I go =
$0.13 below the closest $.50 mark ...". By closest I assumed you meant =
the closest $.50 below the congestion (I'm not familiar with that term, =
but I presume you mean the support level). So if the congestion was at =
$24.99 then you would put the stop at $24.50 - $0.13 =3D $24.37. That is =
$0.62 below the support level, or in this case 2.5%.
I don't mean to be nit-picking - just a techie trying to understand.=20
Aloha,
Mike Gibbons
Proactive Technologies, LLC
http://www.proactech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com =
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Katherine Malm
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:12 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] NVR
Hi Mike,
I'm not sure how you got 3%.... Most trailing stops are set about =
0.10 below the recent congestion. Either way, you're already sacrificing =
the 0.10 to set the stop and so its a sunk cost. In my example, a stop =
$0 .10 below congestion would be set at 24.42. I set it at 24.37. That's =
$0.05 or 0.2% more than a $0.10 stop on the same stock. If I were =
trading billions, I'd worry about it. I don't use stops as a trading =
technique on long positions, I use them as catastrophic insurance. =
Profits on long positions I take on my own with mental stops and will be =
out long before a stop is hit if other price/volume indicators trigger a =
sell. I think as an intermediate term trader that is the best route, as =
you want to give a stock room to breathe as it makes its advance. Also, =
stops get hit in intraday swings. As an intermediate term player, the =
close is what's important.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mike Gibbons=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] NVR
Hi Katherine,
I understand staying away from round numbers, but I'm wondering =
why you choose another 0.13 below. That could put your stop at up to =
(0.49 + 0.13 =3D 0.62) which seems to give a lot of room for further =
losses. On a $20 stock that would be an additional 3%.
But I'm sure you have a sound reason, so I'm wondering if you'd =
explain.
Aloha,
Mike Gibbons
Proactive Technologies, LLC
http://www.proactech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com =
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Katherine Malm
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:41 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] NVR
Hi Bill,
I think everybody is different when it comes to setting their =
stop...I go $0.13 below the closest $.50 mark just to stay out of round =
numbers. So if the bottom of congestion were $24.52, I'd set a stop at =
$24.50 - 0.13 =3D $24.37. That odd number has saved me from getting =
caught in a quick sweep plenty of times.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: William King=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] NVR
Katherine,
Thanks for the trailing stop info. Not knowing any better I =
have been in the arbitrary 8% camp unless there is obvious support in =
that area. When they say "below" a given area - how far below? .10, .50 =
??
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Katherine Malm=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] NVR
Dimitri,
There are many ways to set a trailing stop. Some use trend =
lines, some use a recent area of consolidation, some use the volatility =
of the stock, some use moving averages. The one thing you do *not* want =
to do is choose an arbitrary number such as 8% as a trailing stop. You =
run the risk of being stopped out of a stock that is experiencing a =
"normal" pullback in its uptrend. I've uploaded an article on trailing =
stops written by Mark Boucher to the CANSIM site. You'll find it at:
http://WallStreet-LLC.com/pub/TrailingStops.doc
Use a wise approach to setting your stop and you will be =
more likely to find that delicate balance between protecting profits, =
riding a good stock as long as possible and protecting against =
catastrophic loss.
Katherine
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dimitri Katsaros=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:29 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] NVR
Thank you all for the advice on NVR... after hearing
all that has been said and looking at the chart, I'm
going to take Katherine Malm's advice by putting a
trailing stop. Should I do it at 8% or perhaps larger
to weather out any volatility?
Thanks
Dimitri
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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<DIV>Mike,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You've changed my example from the numbers I was using. Let me go =
with your=20
example. If the stock is $24.99, then the closest .50 mark is $25.00. I =
suppose=20
I should have said "round to the nearest .50". That means the stop would =
be set=20
at $25.00-0.13 =3D 24.87.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The whole idea of setting the stop below congestion in the first =
place is=20
to stay out of the way if the stock simply moves into congestion again. =
Again,=20
the stop would be set 0.10 below congestion if you're using a more =
standard=20
interpretation. That means "standard" would be set at $24.89. My stop is =
set at=20
$24.87. Only 2 cents difference on 24.99 congestion. You can't count the =
0.10 as=20
"cost" because its sunk under either rule of thumb. My "price" for =
sticking to=20
odd numbers is 0.02/24.99 =3D 0.0008, or 0.08%. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In my original example my "price" is the difference between the =
"standard"=20
and the "odd rule" and is 0.02% not 3% as you originally =
suggested.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Throw away all the math for a moment...the point is that you pay a =
price=20
for setting a stop in either case if you don't get out on your own ahead =
of the=20
stop. When you set a stop, you are *choosing* an exit point and then =
letting=20
someone else execute it. In either case, you don't necessarily exit at =
the stop=20
price because fast trade will often drop the price below your stop =
before=20
execution. That's why I prefer to use mental stops + sound discipline =
and exit=20
when I wish to do so. Of course, that requires maintaining focus as =
well,=20
something I've been known to screw up on every now and again. In that =
case, I=20
chalk it up to tuition.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Katherine</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmikegibbons@proactech.com=20
href=3D"mailto:mikegibbons@proactech.com">Mike Gibbons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 10, 2002 =
7:17=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CANSLIM] =
NVR</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D820140100-11042002>Hi=20
Katherine,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D820140100-11042002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D820140100-11042002>I=20
hope I'm not flogging a dead horse here... Perhaps my interpretation =
of your=20
comment was incorrect or my math is fuzzy :-) . You said "I go $0.13 =
below the=20
closest $.50 mark ...". By closest I assumed you meant the =
closest $.50=20
below the congestion (I'm not familiar with that term, but I presume =
you mean=20
the support level). So if the congestion was at $24.99 then you would =
put the=20
stop at $24.50 - $0.13 =3D $24.37. That is $0.62 below the support =
level, or in=20
this case 2.5%.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D820140100-11042002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D820140100-11042002>I=20
don't mean to be nit-picking - just a techie trying to understand.=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Aloha,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mike Gibbons<BR>Proactive =
Technologies,=20
LLC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.proactech.com/">http://www.proactech.com</A></FONT></D=
IV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Katherine=20
Malm<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:12 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
canslim@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM]=20
NVR<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV>Hi Mike,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not sure how you got 3%.... Most trailing stops are set =
about 0.10=20
below the recent congestion. Either way, you're already sacrificing =
the 0.10=20
to set the stop and so its a sunk cost. In my example, a stop $0 .10 =
below=20
congestion would be set at 24.42. I set it at 24.37. That's $0.05 or =
0.2%=20
more than a $0.10 stop on the same stock. If I were trading =
billions, I'd=20
worry about it. I don't use stops as a trading technique on long =
positions,=20
I use them as catastrophic insurance. Profits on long positions I =
take on my=20
own with mental stops and will be out long before a stop is hit if =
other=20
price/volume indicators trigger a sell. I think as an intermediate =
term=20
trader that is the best route, as you want to give a stock room to =
breathe=20
as it makes its advance. Also, stops get hit in intraday swings. As =
an=20
intermediate term player, the close is what's important.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Katherine</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmikegibbons@proactech.com=20
href=3D"mailto:mikegibbons@proactech.com">Mike Gibbons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 10, =
2002 5:52=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CANSLIM] =
NVR</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D160544622-10042002>Hi Katherine,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D160544622-10042002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D160544622-10042002>I understand staying away from round =
numbers, but=20
I'm wondering why you choose another 0.13 below. That could put =
your stop=20
at up to (0.49 + 0.13 =3D 0.62) which seems to give a lot of room =
for=20
further losses. On a $20 stock that would be an additional=20
3%.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D160544622-10042002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D160544622-10042002>But I'm sure you have a sound reason, =
so I'm=20
wondering if you'd explain.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Aloha,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mike Gibbons<BR>Proactive =
Technologies,=20
LLC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.proactech.com/">http://www.proactech.com</A></FONT></D=
IV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Katherine=20
Malm<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:41 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
canslim@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM]=20
NVR<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV>Hi Bill,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think everybody is different when it comes to setting =
their=20
stop...I go $0.13 below the closest $.50 mark just to stay =
out of=20
round numbers. So if the bottom of congestion were $24.52, I'd =
set a=20
stop at $24.50 - 0.13 =3D $24.37. That odd number has saved me =
from=20
getting caught in a quick sweep plenty of times.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Katherine</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dwk11@adelphia.net =
href=3D"mailto:wk11@adelphia.net">William=20
King</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April =
10, 2002=20
5:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
NVR</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Katherine,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the trailing stop =
info. Not=20
knowing any better I have been in the arbitrary 8% camp =
unless=20
there is obvious support in that area. When they say "below" a =
given=20
area - how far below? .10, .50 ??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net=20
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine Malm</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April =
09, 2002=20
11:26 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[CANSLIM]=20
NVR</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dimitri,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are many ways to set a trailing stop. Some use =
trend=20
lines, some use a recent area of consolidation, some use the =
volatility of the stock, some use moving averages. The one =
thing you=20
do *not* want to do is choose an arbitrary number such as 8% =
as a=20
trailing stop. You run the risk of being stopped out of a =
stock that=20
is experiencing a "normal" pullback in its uptrend. I've =
uploaded an=20
article on trailing stops written by Mark Boucher to the =
CANSIM=20
site. You'll find it at:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://WallStreet-LLC.com/pub/TrailingStops.doc">http://WallStree=
t-LLC.com/pub/TrailingStops.doc</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Use a wise approach to setting your stop and you =
will be=20
more likely to find that delicate balance between protecting =
profits, riding a good stock as long as possible and =
protecting=20
against catastrophic loss.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Katherine</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
- ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddcka@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:dcka@yahoo.com">Dimitri=20
Katsaros</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, =
April 09, 2002=20
5:29 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] =
NVR</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Thank you all for the advice on NVR... =
after=20
hearing<BR>all that has been said and looking at the =
chart,=20
I'm<BR>going to take Katherine Malm's advice by putting=20
a<BR>trailing stop. Should I do it at 8% or perhaps =
larger<BR>to=20
weather out any=20
=
volatility?<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Dimitri<BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Quiquid=20
latine dictum sit altum=20
=
viditur<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do=20
You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with=20
TurboTax<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://taxes.yahoo.com/">http://taxes.yahoo.com/</A><BR><BR>-<BR>=
- -To=20
subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>-In=
=20
the email body, write "subscribe canslim" =
or<BR>-"unsubscribe=20
canslim". Do not use quotes in your=20
=
email.</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
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