Re: [CANSLIM] UOPX

From: "Tom Worley" <stkguru@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] UOPX
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 15:35:39 -0400

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jans,

as a general rule, venture capitalists are counted in the ownership of the
float, even tho they tend to be long term investors. Same goes for other
institutional investors, such as pension funds, insurance companies, and
banks.

However, I have seen cases where the shares owned by VC were obtained in a
private placement, and were not being counted in the "float" because they
were restricted. And restrictions can be amended or lifted on short notice.

In this case, as Katherine pointed out, the nearly 90% of the issue that is
missing is held by APOL, the parent company. So the issue remains, and is
worse, in that a single holder not only controls the company (by virtue of
the nr of shares) but also could easily dump 10 or 20 million shares on the
market, and wreck any rally. And still retain majority control.

Tom Worley
stkguru@bellsouth.net
AIM: TexWorley
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Spencer48@aol.com>
To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] UOPX


Tom:

     As I understand it the "float" is  equal to shares outstanding minus
mgt. and insiders who own shares (ie. Mgt. and insiders who own shares
aren't
included in the float).

     Since mgt. only owns 2% of the shares outstanding, the float is 10
Mill,
and Shares Outstanding are 108 Mill (according to DGO), are you suggesting
that venture capitalists and institutional investors (which ones?) are NOT
included in the float-but like mgt. and SEC-denominated insiders, are
included in "shares outstanding".

     Also, in what sense do you mean that the venture capitalists and
institutional investors control the stock (and does the discrepancy-for any
stock-between "shares outstanding" and "float" make this more possible?)

jans


In a message dated 5/5/2002 2:35:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
stkguru@bellsouth.net writes:

<< assuming the data at DGO is correct, and it's so extreme that I will
 question them on it, I assume that venture capitalists, or some other type
 of institutional investors, (hence why I said outsiders) control this
 company's stock.

 Tom Worley
 stkguru@bellsouth.net
 AIM: TexWorley
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: <Spencer48@aol.com>
 To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 10:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] UOPX


 Tom:

      Why would a company have so many share outstanding with such a
 relatively small float?  DG doesn't show any stock buybacks.  The only
thing
 I can think of is that the company executives want to be able to offer
stock
 options to its employees-and without having to hold a vote on issuing new
 shares.

      Does that make sense to you, or would another scenario make more
sense?

 jans


 In a message dated 5/4/2002 6:09:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
 stkguru@bellsouth.net writes:

 << Biggest concern I would have is that most of the issue is held by
 outsiders (issue 108.4 million shares, management owns 2%, but only 10.8
 million shares left in the float according to DGO)...  >>

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