RE: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits

From: "Duke Miller" <dukemill@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:21:25 -0400
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Mr. Butler:

I understand and agree with your suggestion, but only because I think
the topic possibly has run its course.  

A discussion of Andersen is very pertinent to CAN SLIM, because we rely
on accurate accounting at every turn.  If found it interesting that
roughly 80% of this Sunday's business section (the top 5 ranked daily in
the country, by the way, which includes WSJ Sunday Edition) dealt with
fraud and the havoc it has created with investors. Point is, this is
timely.

I started a string a week ago, opening up a discussion that essentially
seeks ways to avoid the unscrupulous practices of heretofore trusted
entities.  Did it get a little out of hand? Yes.  Did I contribute to
that? Yes. Do I feel more informed and able to (hopefully) work around
the accounting "axis of evil"?  Yes.  What did I find most useful in
this discussion? Like everything else in investing in the market, there
are no "pat" answers.

Welcome to our group, and we look forward to your joining in the
day-to-day activity.

Respectfully,

Duke 



 

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of William J Butler
Jr
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 8:10 AM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits


Dear Anderson Commentators,

I have been reading this list for about six months.  I really like it
when it sticks to the stated topic of discussing CANSLIM.

But I am getting awfully tired of the off topic posts, especially when
there seem to be 200 hundred of them and two CANSLIM posts.

Is there somewhere else you all can take your off topic posts?

Thanks,

Bill Butler

On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 15:08:20 -0400 "Tom Worley" <stkguru@bellsouth.net>
writes:
> jans,
> 
> I didn't get the impression that Dave was trying to excuse or allow 
> unethical or illegal conduct by Andersen employees. Rather, I took his

> post to provide more background on how these "fresh from the classroom
> training
> environment" people could be convinced to do things differently, and 
> against
> what they had been taught. I clearly remember studying celestial 
> navigation
> at sea, and having to produce a position accurate to within 2 
> nautical
> miles. When I asked why such accuracy in deep open waters, I was 
> told simply
> that they (the instructors) realized that in the real world I would 
> get
> sloppy, so if they started me at 2 miles, even with slop I still 
> could put
> the ship within 5 miles of where it really was, and that would still 
> be
> acceptable.
> 
> The guidance given by Andersen auditors to major corps, or the false
> or
> misleading bookkeeping that they signed off on, goes to corporate 
> practice
> and policy of Andersen, starting right at the partners level. 
> Probably for
> some distance down in the organization, people clearly knew (or at 
> least
> were questioning if) they were doing wrong. But further down in the
> organization, people may have been confused, but accepted that it 
> was ok
> because it was directed by people they trusted, and who had been 
> auditing
> many more years than they had.
> 
> Accountability must start at the very top, they can't be allowed to
> escape
> the damage done, not just with the Worldcoms and Enrons and Sunbeams 
> and
> Waste Managements and Global Crossings, but to the entire financial
> institution and its accounting system. The pattern is clear, and has 
> been
> clear for some years. It would be false, tragic even, if the 
> partners escape
> by claiming lack of knowledge of what was going on, it is obvious to 
> me that
> what was happening was normal corporate policy, directed right from 
> the top
> of the organization.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Spencer48@aol.com>
> To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits
> 
> 
> David:
> 
>      Although this is not Canslim, since your remark was posted on
> the
> CANSLIM forum, I feel I should post my answer here:
> 
>      Those poor little boys and girls.  My heart bleeds for them.
> It is not
> their fault that they do something unscrupulous (no more than it was 
> the
> fault of those who taught them the "Anderson" way-after all the 
> tutors were
> themselves taught to be unethical by their own unscrupulous Anderson
> teachers-and no doubt they were as impressionably callow as the 
> 1987-year
> people.  Of course, this could go on ad infinitum).
> 
>      So long as you allow people to be unethical and unlawful by
> excusing
> their unethical and illegal behavior, you are going to get more of
> it-especially if the crime costs less than the probability that the 
> crime
> will be punished through condemnation and jail time.
> 
>      After all, a baby isn't born good; he/she has to be taught to
> do the
> right thing.  However, apparently, all this learning falls by the 
> wayside
> once Anderson-like training centers get their diabolical hands on 
> the
> "kids".
>  Those poor impressionable youngsters-as a result of the training 
> they've
> received from the demon Anderson guys-cannot remember the difference 
> between
> right and wrong.  What Balderdash.
> 
>      These are NOT children.  If one continues to treat adults like
> children
> by making excuses for their unethical behavior, then this population 
> will
> become nothing but a nation of whining miscreants.  Just, by the 
> way, what
> we
> need now to fight terrorists and terrorism.
> 
> jans
> 
> In a message dated 6/29/2002 10:53:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> dfcameron@yahoo.com writes:
> 
> << In 1987, I started my professional career in Chicago.   I was 24
>  years old, new to Chicago.   I wanted to learn my way around, make
>  some new friends, etc.... much like young people new to an area
> will.
>    My company was located close to Arthur Andersen's training center
>  (which is really about 40 miles west of Chicago - but in the 
> Chicago
>  metro area).   I had the chance to meet several Andersen recruits.
>  These were young men and women who were (usually) fresh out of
>  school, eager to make their mark, and new to the ways of business.
>  Their story (told independently by several people over the next
>  several months) told of a boot camp like environment, with 70+ hour
>  weeks, continual indoctrination in "the Andersen way" and even
>  lodging together during stretches.
> 
>  The company I worked for had no such thing.   Only years later did 
> I
>  realize that Andersen's approach was to get these people out of  
> college before they knew what other companies did, work them very
>  hard, and get them well indoctrinated.   Many left once they got 
> some
>  experience, but many stayed on - only knowing what Andersen taught
> as
>  THE way business should be run.
> 
>  In retrospect, I suspect that some of the shady dealings by senior  
> members of Andersen were just drummed in to young impressionable  
> people as "that's the way things are done in business".
> 
>  Again, take this for what its worth.   I didn't go through it.  I
>  have a friend who I still keep in touch with who worked for Arthur
>  Andersen Co. in Chicago.   This was also 15 years ago.   But... 
> maybe
>  it sheds some light on how things got they way they are.
>   >>
> 
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