Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Tom Worley" <stkguru@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Inst Ownership
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:34:04 -0400
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Mutual funds are pretty easy to define and monitor activity =
consistently, hence why DGO reports them. They are also required to file =
various reports of holdings, so easier to track. Institutionals range =
from semi-public pension funds to very private investors. So long as =
they don't exceed 5% holdings in a company, it can be very difficult, if =
not impossible, to track what they are doing.
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 11:50 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] Inst Ownership
Tom, I agree with you... unfortunately.... DGO/IBD only counts mutual =
funds ! This explains the difference between DGO and other data sources. =
DGO doesn't count them all.
Here's what they said (today):
"When you say "count" we count the amount of shares of the floating =
supply of stock that Mutual Funds own as registered with the NYSE and =
NASDAQ exchanges."=20
regards,
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tom Worley=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] UCBH
Institutional ownership includes, in addition to mutual funds, pension =
funds, insurance companies, some banks (buying for their own account), =
venture capital funds, etc. There are also some individual investors =
that usually get counted, a certain Saudi Arabian prince comes to mind, =
who will buy $50 to $250 million worth of stock at a time, easily the =
size of a mutual fund order.
A bank is not always an "institutional investor" (unless buying for =
its own account) as it is often used as custodian, or even agent, for =
other institutional accounts as well as many retail accounts. My =
employer is a bank, and also custodian for its securities clients. As =
such, its collective holdings of some securities would easily be large =
enough to count as "institutional" in size, yet they are not because the =
end owner is a retail client of the bank, often making his or her own =
investment decisions.
WON does not count bank holdings for this reason, as it is difficult =
to distinguish bank holdings as "proxy owner" from own holdings, same as =
a broker dealer holding in street name for its clients.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] UCBH
Ann, my data source shows growth at 18, not too shabby for a bank...
Charley... I'm awaiting a definitive answer from IBD on institutional =
ownership. I've asked them what they count and what they don't count =
because of the significant differences in the 'numbers' from different =
data suppliers. My second question to them is 'why aren't banks and =
pension funds, etc. counted in their numbers.=20
In the Q&A below, IBD switches between calling it institutional =
ownership and mutual funds... if a bank isn't an institution why doesn't =
IBD just call it funds?=20
What is a level of institutional ownership you consider when =
buying a stock? If too many shares are already owned by institutional =
investors, can that hurt a stock's chances of rising?=20
=20
Answer=20
It is hard to tell how much institutional ownership is too =
much. Therefore, you should place less weight on this factor. Rather, =
focus on the quality of ownership. You want to see at least a few of the =
better performing mutual funds owning the stock you are considering =
buying. In some cases, however, if too many shares are owned by =
institutional investors, this could be bad. That's because it represents =
large potential selling if anything goes wrong with the company or the =
general market.
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Chazmoore@aol.com=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] UCBH
Ann: I will give you my thoughts to get you started.=20
Fundamentally, the stock looks sound. You say they lost a fraud suit =
but for the time being the market has not reacted negatively. You didn't =
say when, but if it wasn't yesterday, I wouldn't put much weight on it. =
The market tends to respond very quickly to negative news.=20
You didn't state your investment goals, but in my opinion this is =
not a growth stock. For one thing if institutions own 91% now, there =
simply isn't enough stock available to new buyers to move the price =
significantly. That does not mean they cannot enjoy good steady slow =
growth. The funds own 31%; WON recommends staying below 25%.=20
The real positive for this stock is the Group RS rating, and the =
Price RS.=20
The negative is the very weak market.=20
Charley=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Mutual funds are pretty easy to define and =
monitor=20
activity consistently, hence why DGO reports them. They are also =
required to=20
file various reports of holdings, so easier to track. Institutionals =
range from=20
semi-public pension funds to very private investors. So long as they =
don't=20
exceed 5% holdings in a company, it can be very difficult, if not =
impossible, to=20
track what they are doing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dgenr@swbell.net href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene Ricci</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 15, 2002 11:50 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] Inst Ownership</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Tom, I agree with you... =
unfortunately....=20
DGO/IBD only counts mutual funds ! This explains the difference between =
DGO and=20
other data sources. DGO doesn't count them all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Here's what they said =
(today):</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"When you say "count" we count the amount of shares of the floating =
supply=20
of stock that Mutual Funds own as registered with the NYSE and NASDAQ=20
exchanges." </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dstkguru@bellsouth.net =
href=3D"mailto:stkguru@bellsouth.net">Tom=20
Worley</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 15, 2002 =
5:39=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
UCBH</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Institutional ownership includes, in addition =
to mutual=20
funds, pension funds, insurance companies, some banks (buying for =
their own=20
account), venture capital funds, etc. There are also some =
individual=20
investors that usually get counted, a certain Saudi Arabian prince =
comes to=20
mind, who will buy $50 to $250 million worth of stock at a time, =
easily the=20
size of a mutual fund order.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>A bank is not always an "institutional =
investor" (unless=20
buying for its own account) as it is often used as custodian, or even =
agent,=20
for other institutional accounts as well as many retail accounts. My =
employer=20
is a bank, and also custodian for its securities clients. As such, its =
collective holdings of some securities would easily be large enough to =
count=20
as "institutional" in size, yet they are not because the end owner is =
a retail=20
client of the bank, often making his or her own investment=20
decisions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>WON does not count bank holdings for this =
reason, as it=20
is difficult to distinguish bank holdings as "proxy owner" from own =
holdings,=20
same as a broker dealer holding in street name for its =
clients.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dgenr@swbell.net href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene Ricci</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 15, 2002 11:25 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] UCBH</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Ann, my data source shows growth at =
18, not=20
too shabby for a bank...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Charley... I'm awaiting a definitive =
answer=20
from IBD on institutional ownership. I've asked them what they count =
and what=20
they don't count because of the significant differences in the =
'numbers' from=20
different data suppliers. My second question to them is =
'why aren't=20
banks and pension funds, etc. counted in their numbers. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">In the Q&A below, IBD switches =
between=20
calling it institutional ownership and mutual funds... if a bank isn't =
an=20
institution why doesn't IBD just call it funds? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 width=3D"100%" border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD class=3Dtextcell>What is a level of institutional ownership =
you=20
consider when buying a stock? If too many shares are already =
owned by=20
institutional investors, can that hurt a stock's chances of=20
rising?</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><IMG height=3D6 alt=3D""=20
src=3D"http://investdaily.custhelp.com/rnt/rnw/img/trnsp.gif"=20
width=3D1></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD class=3Dsubtitle> </TD>
<TD class=3Dsubtitle>Answer</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD class=3Dtextcell> </TD>
<TD class=3Dtextcell>It is hard to tell how much institutional =
ownership=20
is too much. Therefore, you should place less weight on this =
factor.=20
Rather, focus on the quality of ownership. You want to see at =
least a=20
few of the better performing mutual funds owning the stock you =
are=20
considering buying. In some cases, however, if too many shares =
are owned=20
by institutional investors, this could be bad. That's because it =
represents large potential selling if anything goes wrong with =
the=20
company or the general =
market.<BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DChazmoore@aol.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Chazmoore@aol.com">Chazmoore@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 15, =
2002 8:58=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
UCBH</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Ann: I =
will give you=20
my thoughts to get you started. <BR>Fundamentally, the stock looks =
sound.=20
You say they lost a fraud suit but for the time being the market has =
not=20
reacted negatively. You didn't say when, but if it wasn't yesterday, =
I=20
wouldn't put much weight on it. The market tends to respond very =
quickly to=20
negative news. <BR>You didn't state your investment goals, but in my =
opinion=20
this is not a growth stock. For one thing if institutions own 91% =
now, there=20
simply isn't enough stock available to new buyers to move the price=20
significantly. That does not mean they cannot enjoy good steady slow =
growth.=20
The funds own 31%; WON recommends staying below 25%. <BR>The real =
positive=20
for this stock is the Group RS rating, and the Price RS. <BR>The =
negative is=20
the very weak market. <BR><BR>Charley</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Next Article (by Date): [CANSLIM] The FASB Votes To Continue The Norm Gene Ricci
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