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Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:01:02 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0157_01C24546.8053D480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops...I realize now I misread your question. I would *hold on* up to 8% below buy price, but if the stock comes back = and *kisses* the pivot, then I would buy more. I'm not inclined to buy = more when the stock drops *below* the pivot, unless it shows strong = volume pushing it back up to the pivot and beyond. Now I think I've = confused even myself! This is the way I think of it "Kiss the pivot, second chance to buy = more---Hit the pivot, yellow flag" Katherine - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Katherine Malm" <kmalm@earthlink.net> To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits | Hi Mike, |=20 | 8% standard stop loss, though I don't see this happen too often when = the | market is healthy. |=20 | Katherine |=20 | ----- Original Message ----- | From: <michael_niemotka@baxter.com> | To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> | Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 2:54 PM | Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits |=20 |=20 | | | | Katherine, | | | | I knew I could count on you for a good answer. As a follow up to = your | | answer #4, if you made 10-15% in one week, how low would you allow = the | | stock to drop on low volume and still buy more, as opposed to = selling out? | | | | Put another way, if it ran up 15% in a week, would you allow it to = go | below | | your original buy point, even if it was at low volume? | | | | | | Have a great weekend everyone! | | | | Mike | | | | Mike Niemotka , PE | | Sr. Principal Engineer | | Baxter Healthcare Corporation | | Route 120 & Wilson Road | | Round Lake, IL 60073 | | Tel (847) 270-4075 | | Fax (847) 270-4525 | | michael_niemotka@baxter.com | | | | | | | | "Katherine Malm" | | <kmalm@earthlink.net> To: | canslim@lists.xmission.com | | Sent by: cc: | | owner-canslim@lists.xm Subject: Re: | [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits | | ission.com | | | | | | 08/16/2002 02:31 PM | | Please respond to | | canslim | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Hi Nancy, | | | | Let me try and clear up some of your confusion: | | | | 1. A stock's "rise" does not occur *in* a base, but *between* bases. = While | | the price will fluctuate up and down within the base itself, the = amount of | | fluctuation will vary depending on the severity of correction and = the time | | it takes to form the area of consolidation. The stock is essentially | | *absorbing* the gains of its previous advance. | | | | 2. When you purchase a stock, you will always purchase it as it = *breaks | | out* | | of that base. This preferred buy point is referred to as the "pivot" = and | is | | again defined by the pattern that the base forms. | | | | 4. When a stock begins a healthy rising pattern after it breaks out, = it | can | | rise *any* amount before it consolidates (bases) again. There is no = hard | | and | | fast rule as to how much it will rise before basing, though WON = suggests | | that if it is >=3D25%, the next base would then be considered a "new = stage | | base." This is only important in that his studies show that most = stocks | | can't muster the oomph to keep going after they've reached the 3rd = or 4th | | stage base. | | | | 3. Mike's question about a sell rule is not dependent on *which* = base in | | the | | base count we are evaluating. A base is a base. If the stock breaks = out as | | it should and begins to rise, how are you going to handle selling it | | when/if | | the time comes? | | | | 4. WON suggests that, if you buy correctly at the pivot (or no more = than | 5% | | above it), that you should never have to suffer a loss of more than = 8%. | | This | | is because, in his studies, he has found that a healthy stock never = falls | | more than 8% below the pivot before continuing a healthy advance. | | | | 5. Mike's question, specifically, was "if a stock breaks out of a = base, | | then | | rises 10-15%, then falls back, where do you place your sell stop? 8% = below | | your buy price or something other than that?" In other words, should = you | be | | willing to accept *any* loss if a stock has managed to rise 10-15% = in 6 | | wks, | | then falls back to where you bought it. My vote is, if it takes 6 = wks to | | rise and then erases the entire advance, I don't want to take an 8% = loss. | | If | | it rose 10-15% in *one* week and then fell back on low volume, I'd = look at | | that as "normal" and might consider it a second chance to *buy* = more. | | | | Katherine | | | | | | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: "NANCY POLCARO" <zillagirl@msn.com> | | To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> | | Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 1:47 PM | | Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits | | | | | | | Katherine-let me see if I am following correctly please. My = question is | | | that previously I understood that after the third rise in a base | | formation | | a | | | stock may correct by dropping below the previous base and then = starting | | up | | | again if all is well with the stock. Then the bases start to be | | recounted | | | again. In this case, if you just bought in during the third rise = in the | | | base, which from my understanding would probably go up between = 15%(Mikes | | | figure) and 25%( the amount of each rise in a base of a healthy = stock) | | you | | | would sell(not you personally but someone with my amount of = experience | or | | | the like) before the 8% drop, to protect your gain. Then follow = the | | stock | | | and watch for a buy in again at some point depending on how the = stock | | acts | | | from this point on? Is that close to correct ??? Thanks for your | | thoughts | | | Nancy | | | | | | | | | >From: "Katherine Malm" <kmalm@earthlink.net> | | | >Reply-To: canslim@lists.xmission.com | | | >To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> | | | >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits | | | >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:09:30 -0500 | | | > | | | >HI Mike, | | | > | | | >I think you'll get a hundred different answers on this one, so = I'll | just | | | >answer from my personal point of view. | | | > | | | >If a stock breaks out of a well-formed base on volume, then takes = 6 | | weeks | | | >to | | | >rise 10 or 15 percent, then I sure wouldn't want to risk 8% loss = at | that | | | >point, even if it were falling back "normally" as you suggest. To = me | | that | | | >means that no sell signals were triggered on the way up, and that = the | | | >general pattern included up days on higher volume than down days, | | support | | | >at | | | >the 50 day moving average, etc. My personal preference, however, = would | | be | | | >to | | | >move my stop to breakeven or slightly below (3-4% max, depending = on | | market | | | >conditions) if the stock had risen like this. | | | > | | | >Katherine | | | > | | | > | | | >----- Original Message ----- | | | >From: <michael_niemotka@baxter.com> | | | >To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> | | | >Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 9:17 AM | | | >Subject: [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits | | | > | | | > | | | >| Group, | | | >| | | | >| In reading WON, he makes a statement that you should never let = a | stock | | in | | | >| which you are up 10-15% turn into a loss, but I was wondering = you | have | | | >| interpreted that along with the sell at no more than an 8% loss = rule. | | | >| | | | >| Say you buy a stock, at a breakout, and it rises 10-15% over a = few | (6+ | | | >| weeks), and then is started to correct....Do you sell at you = break | | even | | | >| point, or do you allow it to go to your 8% loss point before = selling? | | | >This | | | >| is assuming that the stock is NOT giving any strong sell = signals, but | | | >| appears to be pulling back "normally". | | | >| | | | >| Thanks | | | >| | | | >| Mike Niemotka , PE | | | >| Sr. Principal Engineer | | | >| Baxter Healthcare Corporation | | | >| Route 120 & Wilson Road | | | >| Round Lake, IL 60073 | | | >| Tel (847) 270-4075 | | | >| Fax (847) 270-4525 | | | >| michael_niemotka@baxter.com | | | >| | | | >| | | | >| | | | >| - | | | >| -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" | | | >| -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or | | | >| -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. | | | > | | | > | | | >- | | | >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" | | | >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or | | | >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | _________________________________________________________________ | | | Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: = http://mobile.msn.com | | | | | | | | | - | | | -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" | | | -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or | | | -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. | | | | | | - | | -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" | | -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or | | -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - | | -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" | | -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or | | -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. |=20 |=20 | - | -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" | -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or | -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0157_01C24546.8053D480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>Oops...I realize now I misread your question.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would *hold on* up to 8% below buy price, but if the stock comes = back and=20 *kisses* the pivot, then I would buy more. I'm not inclined to buy more = when the=20 stock drops *below* the pivot, unless it shows strong volume pushing it = back up=20 to the pivot and beyond. Now I think I've confused even myself!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the way I think of it "<EM>Kiss</EM> the pivot, = second chance=20 to buy more---<EM>Hit</EM> the pivot, yellow flag"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Katherine</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message -----=20 <DIV>From: "Katherine Malm" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">kmalm@earthlink.net</A>></DIV> <DIV>To: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ></DIV> <DIV>Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 4:55 PM</DIV> <DIV>Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>| Hi Mike,<BR>| <BR>| 8% standard stop loss, though I = don't see=20 this happen too often when the<BR>| market is healthy.<BR>| <BR>| = Katherine<BR>|=20 <BR>| ----- Original Message -----<BR>| From: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:michael_niemotka@baxter.com">michael_niemotka@baxter.com</= A>><BR>|=20 To: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>|=20 Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 2:54 PM<BR>| Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] stop = losses=20 and profits<BR>| <BR>| <BR>| |<BR>| | Katherine,<BR>| |<BR>| | I knew I = could=20 count on you for a good answer. As a follow up to your<BR>| | = answer #4,=20 if you made 10-15% in one week, how low would you allow the<BR>| | stock = to drop=20 on low volume and still buy more, as opposed to selling out?<BR>| |<BR>| = | Put=20 another way, if it ran up 15% in a week, would you allow it to go<BR>|=20 below<BR>| | your original buy point, even if it was at low volume?<BR>| = |<BR>|=20 |<BR>| | Have a great weekend everyone!<BR>| |<BR>| | Mike<BR>| |<BR>| | = Mike=20 Niemotka , PE<BR>| | Sr. Principal Engineer<BR>| | Baxter Healthcare=20 Corporation<BR>| | Route 120 & Wilson Road<BR>| | Round Lake, IL = 60073<BR>|=20 | Tel (847) 270-4075<BR>| | Fax (847) 270-4525<BR>| | <A=20 href=3D"mailto:michael_niemotka@baxter.com">michael_niemotka@baxter.com</= A><BR>|=20 |<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>|=20 | = =20 "Katherine Malm"<BR>|=20 | = =20 <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">kmalm@earthlink.net</A>> &nbs= p; =20 To:<BR>| <A=20 href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>|=20 | = =20 Sent=20 by: &nbs= p; =20 cc:<BR>|=20 | = =20 <A=20 href=3D"mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xm">owner-canslim@lists.xm</A> &n= bsp; =20 Subject: Re:<BR>| [CANSLIM] stop losses and = profits<BR>|=20 | = =20 ission.com<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>|=20 | = =20 08/16/2002 02:31 PM<BR>|=20 | = =20 Please respond to<BR>|=20 | = =20 canslim<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| | Hi Nancy,<BR>| = |<BR>| |=20 Let me try and clear up some of your confusion:<BR>| |<BR>| | 1. A = stock's=20 "rise" does not occur *in* a base, but *between* bases. While<BR>| | the = price=20 will fluctuate up and down within the base itself, the amount of<BR>| |=20 fluctuation will vary depending on the severity of correction and the = time<BR>|=20 | it takes to form the area of consolidation. The stock is = essentially<BR>| |=20 *absorbing* the gains of its previous advance.<BR>| |<BR>| | 2. When you = purchase a stock, you will always purchase it as it *breaks<BR>| | = out*<BR>| |=20 of that base. This preferred buy point is referred to as the "pivot" = and<BR>|=20 is<BR>| | again defined by the pattern that the base forms.<BR>| |<BR>| = | 4.=20 When a stock begins a healthy rising pattern after it breaks out, = it<BR>|=20 can<BR>| | rise *any* amount before it consolidates (bases) again. There = is no=20 hard<BR>| | and<BR>| | fast rule as to how much it will rise before = basing,=20 though WON suggests<BR>| | that if it is >=3D25%, the next base would = then be=20 considered a "new stage<BR>| | base." This is only important in that his = studies=20 show that most stocks<BR>| | can't muster the oomph to keep going after = they've=20 reached the 3rd or 4th<BR>| | stage base.<BR>| |<BR>| | 3. Mike's = question about=20 a sell rule is not dependent on *which* base in<BR>| | the<BR>| | base = count we=20 are evaluating. A base is a base. If the stock breaks out as<BR>| | it = should=20 and begins to rise, how are you going to handle selling it<BR>| | = when/if<BR>| |=20 the time comes?<BR>| |<BR>| | 4. WON suggests that, if you buy correctly = at the=20 pivot (or no more than<BR>| 5%<BR>| | above it), that you should never = have to=20 suffer a loss of more than 8%.<BR>| | This<BR>| | is because, in his = studies, he=20 has found that a healthy stock never falls<BR>| | more than 8% below the = pivot=20 before continuing a healthy advance.<BR>| |<BR>| | 5. Mike's question,=20 specifically, was "if a stock breaks out of a base,<BR>| | then<BR>| | = rises=20 10-15%, then falls back, where do you place your sell stop? 8% = below<BR>| | your=20 buy price or something other than that?" In other words, should you<BR>| = be<BR>|=20 | willing to accept *any* loss if a stock has managed to rise 10-15% in = 6<BR>| |=20 wks,<BR>| | then falls back to where you bought it. My vote is, if it = takes 6=20 wks to<BR>| | rise and then erases the entire advance, I don't want to = take an=20 8% loss.<BR>| | If<BR>| | it rose 10-15% in *one* week and then fell = back on low=20 volume, I'd look at<BR>| | that as "normal" and might consider it a = second=20 chance to *buy* more.<BR>| |<BR>| | Katherine<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| | ----- = Original Message -----<BR>| | From: "NANCY POLCARO" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:zillagirl@msn.com">zillagirl@msn.com</A>><BR>| | To: = <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>|=20 | Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 1:47 PM<BR>| | Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = stop=20 losses and profits<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| | | Katherine-let me see if I am = following=20 correctly please. My question is<BR>| | | that previously I = understood=20 that after the third rise in a base<BR>| | formation<BR>| | a<BR>| | | = stock may=20 correct by dropping below the previous base and then starting<BR>| | = up<BR>| | |=20 again if all is well with the stock. Then the bases start to = be<BR>| |=20 recounted<BR>| | | again. In this case, if you just bought in = during the=20 third rise in the<BR>| | | base, which from my understanding would = probably go=20 up between 15%(Mikes<BR>| | | figure) and 25%( the amount of each rise = in a base=20 of a healthy stock)<BR>| | you<BR>| | | would sell(not you personally = but=20 someone with my amount of experience<BR>| or<BR>| | | the like) before = the 8%=20 drop, to protect your gain. Then follow the<BR>| | stock<BR>| | | = and=20 watch for a buy in again at some point depending on how the stock<BR>| | = acts<BR>| | | from this point on? Is that close to correct = ??? =20 Thanks for your<BR>| | thoughts<BR>| | | Nancy<BR>| | |<BR>| | |<BR>| | = |=20 >From: "Katherine Malm" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">kmalm@earthlink.net</A>><BR>| | | = >Reply-To: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= <BR>| | |=20 >To: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>|=20 | | >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] stop losses and profits<BR>| | | = >Date: Fri,=20 16 Aug 2002 13:09:30 -0500<BR>| | | ><BR>| | | >HI Mike,<BR>| | |=20 ><BR>| | | >I think you'll get a hundred different answers on this = one, so=20 I'll<BR>| just<BR>| | | >answer from my personal point of view.<BR>| = | |=20 ><BR>| | | >If a stock breaks out of a well-formed base on volume, = then=20 takes 6<BR>| | weeks<BR>| | | >to<BR>| | | >rise 10 or 15 percent, = then I=20 sure wouldn't want to risk 8% loss at<BR>| that<BR>| | | >point, even = if it=20 were falling back "normally" as you suggest. To me<BR>| | that<BR>| | |=20 >means that no sell signals were triggered on the way up, and that = the<BR>| |=20 | >general pattern included up days on higher volume than down = days,<BR>| |=20 support<BR>| | | >at<BR>| | | >the 50 day moving average, etc. My = personal=20 preference, however, would<BR>| | be<BR>| | | >to<BR>| | | >move = my stop=20 to breakeven or slightly below (3-4% max, depending on<BR>| | = market<BR>| | |=20 >conditions) if the stock had risen like this.<BR>| | | ><BR>| | | = >Katherine<BR>| | | ><BR>| | | ><BR>| | | >----- Original = Message=20 - -----<BR>| | | >From: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:michael_niemotka@baxter.com">michael_niemotka@baxter.com</= A>><BR>|=20 | | >To: <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>= ><BR>|=20 | | >Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 9:17 AM<BR>| | | >Subject: = [CANSLIM]=20 stop losses and profits<BR>| | | ><BR>| | | ><BR>| | | >| = Group,<BR>| |=20 | >|<BR>| | | >| In reading WON, he makes a statement that you = should=20 never let a<BR>| stock<BR>| | in<BR>| | | >| which you are up 10-15% = turn=20 into a loss, but I was wondering you<BR>| have<BR>| | | >| = interpreted that=20 along with the sell at no more than an 8% loss rule.<BR>| | | >|<BR>| = | |=20 >| Say you buy a stock, at a breakout, and it rises 10-15% over a = few<BR>|=20 (6+<BR>| | | >| weeks), and then is started to correct....Do you sell = at you=20 break<BR>| | even<BR>| | | >| point, or do you allow it to go to your = 8% loss=20 point before selling?<BR>| | | >This<BR>| | | >| is assuming that = the=20 stock is NOT giving any strong sell signals, but<BR>| | | >| appears = to be=20 pulling back "normally".<BR>| | | >|<BR>| | | >| Thanks<BR>| | |=20 >|<BR>| | | >| Mike Niemotka , PE<BR>| | | >| Sr. Principal=20 Engineer<BR>| | | >| Baxter Healthcare Corporation<BR>| | | >| = Route 120=20 & Wilson Road<BR>| | | >| Round Lake, IL 60073<BR>| | | >| Tel = (847)=20 270-4075<BR>| | | >| Fax (847) 270-4525<BR>| | | >| <A=20 href=3D"mailto:michael_niemotka@baxter.com">michael_niemotka@baxter.com</= A><BR>| |=20 | >|<BR>| | | >|<BR>| | | >|<BR>| | | >| -<BR>| | | >| = - -To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>| = | | >|=20 - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>| | | >| = - -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR>| | | ><BR>| | |=20 ><BR>| | | >-<BR>| | | >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>| = | |=20 >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>| | | = >-"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR>| | |<BR>| | |<BR>| = | |<BR>|=20 | |<BR>| | |=20 _________________________________________________________________<BR>| | = | Send=20 and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <A=20 href=3D"http://mobile.msn.com">http://mobile.msn.com</A><BR>| | |<BR>| | = |<BR>| |=20 | -<BR>| | | -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>| = | | -In=20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>| | | -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| | = - -<BR>| |=20 - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>| = | -In the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>| | -"unsubscribe = canslim". Do=20 not use quotes in your email.<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| |<BR>| = |<BR>|=20 |<BR>| | -<BR>| | -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20 href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>| = | -In the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>| | -"unsubscribe = canslim". Do=20 not use quotes in your email.<BR>| <BR>| <BR>| -<BR>| -To = subscribe/unsubscribe,=20 email "<A = href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>|=20 - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>| -"unsubscribe=20 canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.</BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0157_01C24546.8053D480-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
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