Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "david frank" <camelot.homes@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 19:26:32 -0500
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Market orders will execute, if the market is open, and guarantees an =
execution but not a price. Stop orders becomes a market order if the =
stock trades at or through the stop price, thus, will execute. The limit =
order is not guaranteed to execute inside the price of the limit. But if =
executed the price you set or better is guaranteed. The stop limit order =
becomes a limit order when the stock hits the stop price. Since the stop =
limit order is a combination of a stop order and a limit order, again it =
is not guaranteed to execute inside the price of the limit. The market =
order is the priority order and a limit order maybe a secondary order. =
In other words, any limit order may or may not execute inside your price =
limit. And shall not execute outside your price limit. I believe in the =
first post, Warren was asking about buy stop limit orders. and in my =
first post I mentioned stop orders, left out limit, which i tried to =
correct in my 2nd post. I have seen many times the price goes up on a =
stock, inside my stock price limit, thinking it will execute at any =
second, then going through the price limit without executing, especially =
on the listed markets, which always take time to get market execution =
verifications back. Then you call your friendly broker. and you say, =
hey, why didn't my stock execute? And they will reply, hey, you had a =
limit order, your stock doesn't have to execute. That is their out. no =
recourse. That specialist might have taken your order at your good price =
and the stock is higher and now it's his order at a profit. The reverse =
may be true of sell orders. Dave
----- Original Message -----=20
From: NANCY POLCARO=20
To: canslim=20
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?
Thanks Tom-you dont have a chart to go with that do you-(haha) nancy=20
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Worley
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:25 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?
Nancy, a stop order converts to a market order (wherever the market =
is then). A stop LIMIT order converts to a LIMIT order (again, wherever =
the market is). So if the stop price is hit by a big gap, then the stop =
order becomes a market, and naturally executes, altho at a price that =
may be a real surprise. A stop LIMIT order, because it now is a LIMIT =
order, may not execute if the market moved outside of the LIMIT range.
Example: you find an absolutely perfect, classic, textbook cup and =
handle. Can't find a single thing wrong with either the chart or its =
fundamentals, even after exhaustive hours of due diligence (ok, I admit =
it, I like to fantasize).
You determine that the perfect pivot point is exactly $25.20, so you =
enter a Buy Stop order at $25.30. Your friend, however, enters a Buy =
Stop LIMIT order at Buy Stop $25.30, LIMIT $26.46 (5% over the pivot). =
Shortly before the open, the company announces that it has accepted a =
cash buyout at $29, and the stock gaps to that price (or higher, or just =
under) as the shorts immediately cover. Your buy is executed at around =
$29, and the best you can hope for is to sell at a breakeven, if you are =
lucky cover transaction costs. Your friend's order never executes =
because of the LIMIT and is able to simply cancel the order when the =
news is discovered.
Exactly the same thing can happen on a Sell Stop / Sell Stop LIMIT =
order. A stop order means you take what the market gives you, and can be =
triggered when the volume might have kept you out of the trade entirely. =
A stop LIMIT order means you may never get an execution, but may have a =
second chance to evaluate the situation, and change the order, or cancel =
it entirely.
As one further comment, many firms still will not accept Stop LIMIT =
orders on NASDAQ stocks, especially if they are not very liquid.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: NANCY POLCARO=20
To: canslim=20
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?
which is right? One says a stop order will always execute somewhere =
even if it is not at the stop price( this is what I thought) and one =
says the market can pass through the stop and it will never be executed. =
They both can not be correct. Advice from the more experienced then I =
please. Thanks again for the help nancy
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Forant
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:57 AM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?
A stop order, buy or sell will always execute (somewhere). A Stop =
Limit
order may not if the market blows up through the stop *limit*.
DanF
----- Original Message -----
From: "david frank" <camelot.homes@charter.net>
To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?
> Warren, the bad thing about a stop order is that it is a =
secondary order.
A
> broker doesn't have to execute it, thereby, you don't really =
have any
> recourse, if it is not executed, although the price of the stock =
was
within
> your price parameters. If the price of the stock is outside of =
your stop,
it
> will not execute. dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warren Keuffel" <wkeuffel@xmission.com>
> To: "CANSLIM list" <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:55 AM
> Subject: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?
>
>
> > I am curious (yellow) -- sorry, bad joke that will be =
undersood only by
> > those of a certain age, if no one "gets" it I will explain, if =
asked --
> >
> > anyway, back to the subject -- whether people here have used =
buy stop
> > limit orders to trigger a purchase if the price of a stock =
rises above
> > the limit price. You would need to use this with some sort of =
manual or
> > automatic scan for increased volume to make a good buy on a =
breakout,
> > but given the volume, seems like a buy stop limit order would =
help one
> > buy at the pivot point. Or not?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Warren
> >
> >
> > -
> > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
> > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
> > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
>
>
> -
> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
> -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
> -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
>
-
-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; FONT: 10pt =
verdana; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; =
BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Market orders will execute, if the market is =
open, and=20
guarantees an execution but not a price. Stop orders becomes a market =
order if=20
the stock trades at or through the stop price, thus, will =
execute. The=20
limit order is not guaranteed to execute inside the price of the limit. =
But if=20
executed the price you set or better is guaranteed. The stop limit order =
becomes=20
a limit order when the stock hits the stop price. Since the stop limit =
order is=20
a combination of a stop order and a limit order, again it is not =
guaranteed to=20
execute inside the price of the limit. The market order is the priority =
order=20
and a limit order maybe a secondary order. In other words, any =
limit order=20
may or may not execute inside your price limit. And shall not execute =
outside=20
your price limit. I believe in the first post, Warren was asking about =
buy stop=20
limit orders. and in my first post I mentioned stop orders, left out =
limit,=20
which i tried to correct in my 2nd post. I have seen many times the =
price goes=20
up on a stock, inside my stock price limit, thinking it will =
execute at any=20
second, then going through the price limit without executing, especially =
on the=20
listed markets, which always take time to get market execution =
verifications=20
back. Then you call your friendly broker. and you say, hey, why didn't =
my stock=20
execute? And they will reply, hey, you had a limit order, your stock =
doesn't=20
have to execute. That is their out. no recourse. That specialist might =
have=20
taken your order at your good price and the stock is higher and =
now it's=20
his order at a profit. The reverse may be true of sell orders. =
Dave</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DZILLAGIRL@msn.com href=3D"mailto:ZILLAGIRL@msn.com">NANCY =
POLCARO</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 06, =
2002 10:14=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop =
Limit=20
orders?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Tom-you dont have a chart to go with that =
do you-(haha)=20
nancy </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: =
black"><B>From:</B> Tom=20
Worley</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 06, =
2002 7:25=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Buy =
Stop Limit=20
orders?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>Nancy, a stop order converts to a =
market order=20
(wherever the market is then). A stop LIMIT order converts to a =
LIMIT order=20
(again, wherever the market is). So if the stop price is hit by a =
big gap,=20
then the stop order becomes a market, and naturally executes, altho =
at a=20
price that may be a real surprise. A stop LIMIT order, because it =
now is a=20
LIMIT order, may not execute if the market moved outside of the =
LIMIT=20
range.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>Example: you find an absolutely =
perfect,=20
classic, textbook cup and handle. Can't find a single thing wrong =
with=20
either the chart or its fundamentals, even after exhaustive hours of =
due=20
diligence (ok, I admit it, I like to fantasize).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>You determine that the perfect =
pivot point is=20
exactly $25.20, so you enter a Buy Stop order at $25.30. Your =
friend,=20
however, enters a Buy Stop LIMIT order at Buy Stop $25.30, LIMIT =
$26.46 (5%=20
over the pivot). Shortly before the open, the company announces that =
it has=20
accepted a cash buyout at $29, and the stock gaps to that price (or =
higher,=20
or just under) as the shorts immediately cover. Your buy is executed =
at=20
around $29, and the best you can hope for is to sell at a breakeven, =
if you=20
are lucky cover transaction costs. Your friend's order never =
executes=20
because of the LIMIT and is able to simply cancel the order when the =
news is=20
discovered.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>Exactly the same thing can happen =
on a Sell=20
Stop / Sell Stop LIMIT order. A stop order means you take what the =
market=20
gives you, and can be triggered when the volume might have kept you =
out of=20
the trade entirely. A stop LIMIT order means you may never get an =
execution,=20
but may have a second chance to evaluate the situation, and change =
the=20
order, or cancel it entirely.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>As one further comment, many firms =
still will=20
not accept Stop LIMIT orders on NASDAQ stocks, especially if they =
are not=20
very liquid.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> =
<A=20
title=3DZILLAGIRL@msn.com href=3D"mailto:ZILLAGIRL@msn.com">NANCY =
POLCARO</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 06, 2002 4:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit =
orders?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>which is right? One says a stop order will always =
execute=20
somewhere even if it is not at the stop price( this is what I =
thought) and=20
one says the market can pass through the stop and it will never =
be=20
executed. They both can not be correct. Advice from the =
more=20
experienced then I please. Thanks again for the help =
nancy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
Dan Forant</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 06, =
2002=20
10:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> =
canslim@lists.xmission.com</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Buy =
Stop Limit=20
orders?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>A stop order, buy or sell will always execute=20
(somewhere). A Stop Limit<BR>order may not if the market blows up =
through=20
the stop *limit*.<BR><BR>DanF<BR>----- Original Message =
- -----<BR>From:=20
"david frank" <camelot.homes@charter.net><BR>To:=20
<canslim@lists.xmission.com><BR>Sent: Friday, September 06, =
2002=20
12:53 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit =
orders?<BR><BR><BR>>=20
Warren, the bad thing about a stop order is that it is a secondary =
order.<BR>A<BR>> broker doesn't have to execute it, thereby, =
you don't=20
really have any<BR>> recourse, if it is not executed, although =
the=20
price of the stock was<BR>within<BR>> your price parameters. If =
the=20
price of the stock is outside of your stop,<BR>it<BR>> will not =
execute. dave<BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: =
"Warren=20
Keuffel" <wkeuffel@xmission.com><BR>> To: "CANSLIM list"=20
<canslim@lists.xmission.com><BR>> Sent: Friday, September =
06,=20
2002 10:55 AM<BR>> Subject: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit=20
orders?<BR>><BR>><BR>> > I am curious (yellow) -- =
sorry, bad=20
joke that will be undersood only by<BR>> > those of a =
certain age,=20
if no one "gets" it I will explain, if asked --<BR>> =
><BR>> >=20
anyway, back to the subject -- whether people here have used buy=20
stop<BR>> > limit orders to trigger a purchase if the price =
of a=20
stock rises above<BR>> > the limit price. You would need to =
use this=20
with some sort of manual or<BR>> > automatic scan for =
increased=20
volume to make a good buy on a breakout,<BR>> > but given =
the=20
volume, seems like a buy stop limit order would help one<BR>> =
> buy=20
at the pivot point. Or not?<BR>> ><BR>> > =
Thanks,<BR>> >=20
Warren<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > -<BR>> > -To=20
subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"<BR>> > =
- -In the=20
email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>> > =
- -"unsubscribe=20
canslim". Do not use quotes in your =
email.<BR>><BR>><BR>>=20
-<BR>> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20
"majordomo@xmission.com"<BR>> -In the email body, write =
"subscribe=20
canslim" or<BR>> -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use =
quotes in=20
your email.<BR>><BR><BR><BR>-<BR>-To subscribe/unsubscribe, =
email=20
"majordomo@xmission.com"<BR>-In the email body, write "subscribe =
canslim"=20
or<BR>-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your=20
email.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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- -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
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Next Article (by Date): Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? "John Calkins"
Previous Article (by Date): Re: [CANSLIM] VMF "Norman"
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