Off List - RE: [CANSLIM] Wow that didn't take long

From: "Mike Gibbons" <mike@proactech.com>
Subject: Off List - RE: [CANSLIM] Wow that didn't take long
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:33:15 -1000
Next Article (by Author): Re: [CANSLIM] Wow that didn't take long "Nicky Lawrence"
Previous Article (by Author): Off List - RE: [CANSLIM] Charts for CANSLIMers "Mike Gibbons"
Articles sorted by: [Date] [Author] [Subject]
Hi Tom,

Well the point was not that anyone was "killed", just maybe hurt a little.
Hoover, Kleenex, Xerox, etc invented their products and the market that was
created around them. It can never be known for sure, but their potential
profits were probably impacted by their brands becoming a generic name for
their product allowing competitors to muscle in. Not that I'm opposed to
competition of course, but I can understand them wanting to protect their
brand. Imagine the damage to coke if Coca Cola became a generic name for
cola drinks?

And I take your point about failure to innovate, but thats a different issue
from brand protection.

WON has created a significant business (and mini-industry) around his
investment strategy loosly called CAN SLIM, and there are a number of us
piggy backing on the marketing of that strategy that he does through his
books, IBD and the web sites. To some degeree its in his interest to
tolerate parasites like me using the strategy for personal gain because we
actually enhance the strategy's credibility through referring to it and
incorporating it in our products. But there's a fine line and only he knows
where its drawn.

As far as granting Ed's request goes, from WON's pespective, there's little
upside but possible downside from the misuse or misrepresentation of the
investment strategy.

All that being said, WON's decision to play defense only creates
opportunities for others. That's why I'm smiling :)

Aloha,

Mike Gibbons
Proactive Technologies, LLC
http://www.proactech.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Tom Worley
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:12 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Wow that didn't take long


I disagree, Mike. Loss of control over the use of a brand name didn't kill
Hoover any more than it killed Xerox, in fact I think in both cases it
became free advertising and, used properly, would have worked to enhance
market share. What hurt both companies was a failure of management to
innovate, to advance, to adapt to changing times, to develop new technology
as well as new marketing strategies.

While DGO had the Custom Screens available in beta mode, I spent some time
trying to make it work for me, to give me better lists to review, to save me
valuable time. It did not achieve any of that, and since I felt a screening
device should already have been available as part of the service, I
certainly was not going to pay extra for something that did not help me when
it was free. I was much better off continuing with my free screens I got off
the net, most of my ideas came from there and very, very few from DGO Custom
Screens.

I have poked around a little in their Options screening tool while it is
also in beta. Found it also gave me no benefit I could not already get for
free at Schwab where I have my accts, and was harder to extract the specific
info (e.g. an options screen for all options on a particular stock) that I
sought. At Schwab, a couple keystrokes and I had it.

DGO appears to me to be pricing themselves out of competition, except
possibly for extremely active traders, or institutions. That may be the
goal, to escape from the risks associated with the retail investor,
especially those not sophisticated or experienced enough to not blame DGO if
something goes wrong.

Any way you cut it, though, I don't see the innovation I desire, or improved
"bang for the buck" during these terrible "M" conditions. If the market does
indeed move generally sideways for several years, how many will continue to
subscribe at the retail level for the current prices?

I am betting that when the Options screen goes out of beta, it too will add
a few hundred dollars onto subscriber costs if you want it.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Gibbons" <mike@proactech.com>
To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:42 PM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Wow that didn't take long


Ed,

Thank you for sharing that. I understand their position, and for a big
organization, I think its a reasonable one.

There have been lots of instances of corporations losing control of their
brand because they didn't enforce restrictions on its use. Can't think of
too many just now, but "Hoover" comes to mind as a case where the brand
became a generic name for the appliance.

Also, because they couldn't control how you would use the information, and
its misuse could affect their image and reputation, its reasonable to
withhold usage on those grounds too.

Aloha,

Mike Gibbons
Proactive Technologies, LLC
http://www.proactech.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Edward W. Gjertsen
II
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:25 AM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] Wow that didn't take long


Here is the response I received from IBD. Sorry for the length, but
hopefully it will shed some light on what WON has turned into - a big
corp. with attorneys (no offense to those who practice the dark arts)

Dear Mr. Gjertsen :
We received your inquiry via e-mail dated October 9th, regarding the
possibility of incorporating both IBD and Daily Graphs in your
presentations at educational seminars. We appreciate your support and
faith in the Daily Graphs Online ("DGO") Investor's Business Daily
("IBD") products, but we will not be able to accommodate your request.
As a matter of corporate policy, we do not grant requests to republish
or reproduce our intellectual property for uses other than immediate
personal use. This includes incorporating our intellectual property with
your firm's presentation in an educational forum. Currently, we are not
in a position to commit the time required to properly monitor such
requests. We feel strongly about maintaining the integrity of our
proprietary data, intellectual property and brand goodwill.
Unfortunately, the integrity of such may be jeopardized with outside
use. Our concerns lie in potentially misleading or confusing the public
as to connection, association, sponsorship and/or affiliation between
DGO, IBD, our products and services and your educational content. Please
note that our Subscription Agreement governs your use of Daily Graphs
Online. This Agreement explicitly states that the products and services
of DGO are for your personal use only. They are not for mass
distribution or publication. You may not re transmit or otherwise
furnish any data obtained from DGO to any other person or entity. We
respectfully request that you eliminate the inclusion of any DGO
products or data obtained there from in any of your works. Please
understand that our decision is not a reflection on you or your firm's
intent for these seminars. Again, we appreciate your interest and
support of the O'Neil principles, DGO and IBD, we wish you the best of
luck in your endeavor, but we cannot grant your request. Thank you for
your cooperation and understanding. Sincerely, Daily Graphs OnlineR &
Investor's Business Daily, Inc. Data Protection Committee


Ed Gjertsen II
ed@macktracks.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Edward W.
Gjertsen II
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:11 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] OffTopic - please respond to me personally

Please excuse the question.  I just got off the phone with Steve Salter
at Daily Graphs and he went through what we have been sharing lately
regarding use of IBD, Graphs, etc.  We are an investment advisory firm
planning on putting on education seminars that feature CANSLIM in
conjunction with what I have shared with the group regarding position
sizing and risk.  Are there any others on the list, in the financial
services industry, who promote IBD, CANSLIM etc. in a presentation
format?  Since this is an offlist topic - please respond to me
personally.

I was going to include comments regarding my conversation with Steve,
but because of the "listening" that may be occurring, I will keep my
opinions to myself.  I will though share Daily Graphs response to our
email questions regarding use.


Ed Gjertsen II
ed@macktracks.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wahl
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:56 AM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Worley's Weekend Weeview

Nope, its not people willing to work in manufacturing jobs, its strictly
an economic
issue, and can American manufacturing compete with China and Korea and a
few
others, where people make a couple bucks a day.  Mostly the answer is
no.

On 9 Oct 2002 at 9:22, Kelly Short wrote:

> 1. Education is expensive and is/will get more expensive (even
outpacing
> inflation). Therefore more blue collar than white collar. 2. People
keep having
> children, people keep living longer, therefore (naturally) more people
in the
> bottom 50% of the socio-economic ladder. Most of these people will be
engaged in
> manual labor rather than services (at least historically) 3. America
(and
> increasingly the world) is a consumer of goods. Services do not create
goods,
> laborers create goods.



- -
- -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
- -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
- -"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.


- -
- -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
- -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
- -"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.


- -
- -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
- -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
- -"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.


- -
- -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
- -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
- -"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.



- -
- -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
- -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
- -"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.


- -
- -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
- -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
- -"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.
Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.