Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Tom Worley" <stkguru@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of trades
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:23:13 -0400
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Hi Buck, I will offer a late (and different, as I am prone to do) point =
of view.
First, I suspect you may have been executed in what I term "off =
exchange", such as thru Island, where the spread is much larger due =
lower volume.
Second, checking and rechecking live quotes was not the right tactic, =
you should have immediately checked for the high / low of the day. If =
the high being printed was not at least close to your execution, =
complain immediately, definitely on trade date. I looked at DGO and it =
shows the high for that date ended up being 17.40, but I have no way =
easily from home of checking when it traded that price.
Third, you indicate that you expect to get shaken out, but I see no =
pending evidence of that.=20
Fourth, NASDAQ requires that the highest bid and lowest offer be =
presented to the market. But this only applies to "market" orders. If =
you put any condition on your order, then your execution comes after all =
market orders. Some conditions, such as AON (All or None) can easily =
cost you a premium price.
Assuming your order was a market order, then you should expect to pay =
the offering price. But your brokerage firm cannot take the spread, or =
part of it, unless they are a market maker, and are taking the risks of =
being a market maker. However, they can short sell the shares to you, =
then attempt to cover their short from the marketplace, without actually =
being a market maker to the best of my belief. But that still would mean =
you would have been executed at the offer, not over the offer. Likewise, =
if the size of your order was substantial, then you might well be =
executed away from the market pricing in order to fill the complete =
order.
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jerome Buckmelter=20
To: CANSLIM-posts=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:06 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of trades
Hi! Although I have been a student of canslim for two years, and have =
watched this board in the past, this is my first post. First of all, I =
am really impressed by some of the commentary I've read herein, and hope =
that my question will not be too elementary or off the (canslim) mark. =
Perhaps others have experienced a similar situation to the one that I =
did, and could give me some advice. On October 17 RINO broke out. I =
saw it pass the pivot of 16.25 and climb quickly. By the time I checked =
the volume, re-checked the chart, and got set up on my brokerage firm's =
website to make the trade, the real time quote window showed a price of =
around $16.80!! A quick math check indicated that I would still be =
about 3.3 % above the pivot. Still OK, so I made the trade. I =
immediately confirmed the purchase price, and it was $17.16! -- 5.5% =
above the pivot! I quickly clicked the real time quote button: the =
price and bid/ask didn't change! They were still in the $16.80 range! =
Somehow I got stuck with shares that were about 35 cents (2.2%) above =
the going rate. I kept checking the real time quote for the next few =
minutes, and it still remained around 16.80 or a little lower. I talked =
to the brokerage firm, and they said I got caught in a momentary =
"upspike"-just a tough break. Why the price surged up dramatically for =
a few moments and didn't remain elevated, they could not adequately =
explain. My concern is this: is this situation the result of having =
this particular broker? (By the way, I had a very similar situation =
with them several months ago, but shrugged it off). Could I have =
avoided this if I had another broker? Would it be prudent to adjust my =
sell point accordingly since there is a good chance that I will be =
shaken out as things now stand? Thanks,
=20
Buck =20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Hi Buck, I will offer a late (and different, as =
I am prone=20
to do) point of view.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>First, I suspect you may have been executed in =
what I term=20
"off exchange", such as thru Island, where the spread is much larger due =
lower=20
volume.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Second, checking and rechecking live quotes was =
not the=20
right tactic, you should have immediately checked for the high / low of =
the day.=20
If the high being printed was not at least close to your execution, =
complain=20
immediately, definitely on trade date. I looked at DGO and it =
shows the=20
high for that date ended up being 17.40, but I have no way easily from =
home of=20
checking when it traded that price.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Third, you indicate that you expect to get =
shaken out, but=20
I see no pending evidence of that. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Fourth, NASDAQ requires that the highest bid and =
lowest=20
offer be presented to the market. But this only applies to "market" =
orders. If=20
you put any condition on your order, then your execution comes after all =
market=20
orders. Some conditions, such as AON (All or None) can easily cost you a =
premium=20
price.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Assuming your order was a market order, then you =
should=20
expect to pay the offering price. But your brokerage firm cannot take =
the=20
spread, or part of it, unless they are a market maker, and are taking =
the risks=20
of being a market maker. However, they can short sell the shares to you, =
then=20
attempt to cover their short from the marketplace, without actually =
being a=20
market maker to the best of my belief. But that still would mean you =
would have=20
been executed at the offer, not over the offer. Likewise, if the size of =
your=20
order was substantial, then you might well be executed away from the =
market=20
pricing in order to fill the complete order.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Djsjbuck@myexcel.com href=3D"mailto:jsjbuck@myexcel.com">Jerome=20
Buckmelter</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">CANSLIM-posts</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:06 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of =
trades</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi!<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Although I have been a student =
of <SPAN=20
class=3DSpellE>canslim</SPAN> for two years, and have watched this board =
in the=20
past, this is my first post.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>First=20
of all, I am really impressed by some of the commentary I=92ve read =
herein, and=20
hope that my question will not be too elementary or off the (<SPAN=20
class=3DSpellE>canslim</SPAN>) mark.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>Perhaps others have experienced a similar situation to the one =
that I=20
did, and could give me some advice.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>On October 17 RINO broke out.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>I saw it pass the pivot of 16.25 and climb quickly.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>By the time I checked the =
volume,=20
re-checked the chart, and got set up on my brokerage firm=92s website to =
make the=20
trade, the real time quote window showed a price of around $16.80!!<SPAN =
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>A quick math check indicated =
that I=20
would still be about 3.3 % above the pivot.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN class=3DGramE>Still OK, =
so I made=20
the trade.</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I =
immediately=20
confirmed the purchase price, and it was $17.16! -- 5.5% above the =
pivot!<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I quickly clicked the =
real time=20
quote button: the price and bid/ask didn=92t change!<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>They were still in the $16.80=20
range!<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Somehow I got =
stuck with=20
shares that were about 35 cents (2.2%) above the going rate.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I kept checking the real time =
quote for=20
the next few minutes, and it still remained around 16.80 or a little =
lower.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I talked to the brokerage =
firm, and they=20
said I got caught in a momentary =93<SPAN =
class=3DSpellE>upspike</SPAN>=94=97just a=20
tough break.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Why the =
price surged=20
up dramatically for a few moments and didn=92t remain elevated, they =
could not=20
adequately explain.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>My =
concern is=20
this: is this situation the result of having this particular =
broker?<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(By the way, I had a very =
similar=20
situation with them several months ago, but shrugged it off).<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Could I have avoided this if I =
had=20
another broker?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Would it =
be prudent=20
to adjust my sell point accordingly since there is a good chance that I =
will be=20
shaken out as things now stand?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =20
</SPAN>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Buck<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =20
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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