RE: [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of trades

From: "Mike Gibbons" <mike@proactech.com>
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of trades
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:11:26 -1000
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For what it's worth, I use RJT. It's a no frills service, but I find thei=
r default execution very satisfacory - it seems to be
instanteneous in most cases. I could get sophisticated and direct the tra=
de to a particular ECN for execution, but I don't find that
necessary. It also links seamlessly with quotetracker, which is the best =
piece of free software I've ever seen.

Aloha,

Mike Gibbons
Proactive Technologies, LLC
http://www.proactech.com
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmis=
sion.com]On Behalf Of David Taggart
  Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:22 PM
  To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
  Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of trades


  A lot of online brokers use market maker firms and get what is called p=
ayment for order flow.  Basically the market maker is
guaranteed the spread that is one of the main reasons a lot of the online=
 brokers did and some still do charge extra for limit
orders.  It does not cost them extra out of pocket to do a limit order bu=
t it does cost payment for order flow.  Check out NITE
they were and are one of the biggest MM firms and you can see what decima=
lization and less online trading has done to their stock
price.  Decimals killed a lot of MM firms that didn=92t know how to trade=
 but took order flow instead because when you used to get
anywhere from a 1/16th to 1/4th each trade and now you get a lot of $.01 =
and $.02 spreads the money just isn=92t there like it used to
be.  Anybody that used to scalp for 1/8th and 1/4th know that the scalp g=
ame left town last year with the decimals.  But returning
to the reason for the post Yes, brokers use payment for order flow to get=
 more money.  That is one of the biggest selling points of
direct access brokerage firms you trade with whatever route you want.



  Happy Trading,

  David Taggart



  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmis=
sion.com] On Behalf Of Tom Worley
  Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:24 PM
  To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
  Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of trades



  I believe this would be entirely illegal, and likely to cause the Broke=
r Dealer to quickly go out of business, altho by then
likely wouldn't have any customers left anyway.



  ----- Original Message -----

  From: Chazmoore@aol.com

  To: canslim@lists.xmission.com

  Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 4:31 PM

  Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of trades



  Buck: Excellent question. I have found myself in similar situations and=
 have wondered how I was taken. Maybe some of the insiders
on the board will venture a guess. Here is my guess.

  If you are dealing through a discount broker and are enjoying some of t=
he $7.00 or $10.00 transaction costs, it is possible your
broker has a deal with a market maker wherein you pay at the highest bid =
while your broker buys at a lower price and splits the
difference with the market maker. I have been told this is how some disco=
unt brokers can provide such low acquisition costs. Anyone
know for sure?
  Charley

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D350180207-23102002><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#000080 size=3D2>For=20
what it's worth, I use RJT. It's a no frills service, but I find their =
default=20
execution very satisfacory - it seems to be instanteneous in most cases. =
I could=20
get sophisticated and direct the trade to a particular ECN for =
execution, but I=20
don't find that necessary. It also links seamlessly with quotetracker, =
which is=20
the best piece of free software I've ever seen. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Aloha,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Mike =
Gibbons</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Proactive =
Technologies,=20
LLC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080=20
size=3D2>http://www.proactech.com</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
  [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>David=20
  Taggart<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:22 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  canslim@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CANSLIM] RINO and =
general=20
  execution of trades<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A lot of =
online=20
  brokers use market maker firms and get what is called payment for =
order=20
  flow.&nbsp; Basically the market maker is guaranteed the spread that =
is one of=20
  the main reasons a lot of the online brokers did and some still do =
charge=20
  extra for limit orders.&nbsp; It does not cost them extra out of =
pocket to do=20
  a limit order but it does cost payment for order flow.&nbsp; Check out =

  NITE&nbsp; they were and are one of the biggest MM firms and you can =
see what=20
  decimalization and less online trading has done to their stock =
price.&nbsp;=20
  Decimals killed a lot of MM firms that didn=92t know how to trade but =
took order=20
  flow instead because when you used to get anywhere from a =
1/16<SUP>th</SUP> to=20
  1/4<SUP>th</SUP> each trade and now you get a lot of $.01 and $.02 =
spreads the=20
  money just isn=92t there like it used to be.&nbsp; Anybody that used =
to scalp=20
  for 1/8<SUP>th</SUP> and 1/4<SUP>th</SUP> know that the scalp game =
left town=20
  last year with the decimals.&nbsp; But returning to the reason for the =
post=20
  Yes, brokers use payment for order flow to get more money.&nbsp; That =
is one=20
  of the biggest selling points of direct access brokerage firms you =
trade with=20
  whatever route you want.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Happy=20
  Trading,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">David=20
  Taggart</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
  owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com =
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]=20
  <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Tom=20
  Worley<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> =
Tuesday, October=20
  22, 2002 9:24 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  canslim@lists.xmission.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [CANSLIM] RINO and =
general=20
  execution of trades</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe this would be =
entirely=20
  illegal, and likely to cause the Broker Dealer to quickly go out of =
business,=20
  altho by then likely wouldn't have any customers left=20
  anyway.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message =
- -----=20
  </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV style=3D"font-color: black">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; MARGIN-LEFT: =
0.5in"><B><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <A=20
  title=3DChazmoore@aol.com =
href=3D"mailto:Chazmoore@aol.com">Chazmoore@aol.com</A>=20
  </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <A=20
  title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
  </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> Tuesday,=20
  October 22, 2002 4:31 PM</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> Re:=20
  [CANSLIM] RINO and general execution of =
trades</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Buck: Excellent =
question. I have=20
  found myself in similar situations and have wondered how I was taken. =
Maybe=20
  some of the insiders on the board will venture a guess. Here is my =
guess.=20
  <BR><BR>If you are dealing through a discount broker and are enjoying =
some of=20
  the $7.00 or $10.00 transaction costs, it is possible your broker has =
a deal=20
  with a market maker wherein you pay at the highest bid while your =
broker buys=20
  at a lower price and splits the difference with the market maker. I =
have been=20
  told this is how some discount brokers can provide such low =
acquisition costs.=20
  Anyone know for sure? <BR>Charley</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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