Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: Sol Mayer <smaye1211@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Volume and CWH (was M)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:59:17 -0800 (PST)
Previous Article (by Author): Re: Info Overload [CANSLIM] (was: Volume and CWH (was M)) "Katherine Malm"
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i'VE BEEN READING YOUR LATEST POSTINGS.
How long do you spend a day on this? Is this your occupation?also do you find you get info overload? (that's the way I feel right now)
Katherine Malm <kmalm@earthlink.net> wrote:
v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)}o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)}w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)}.shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }Hi Curt, I'm of a mind that simple is better when it comes to reading charts, and as with most things it just takes practice to become proficient, just as you suggested. I still "practice" every day. One of the things I like so much about the CANSLIM list is that people will often bring up stocks that I personally have glossed over, but I use their mention of a stock to practice reading the chart more closely. As chart reading is such a visual process, I think anything that helps interpret the price/volume action is helpful. I'm fairly purist, and stick to the simplest of indicators, but I find that the pattern of the Up/Down volume helps summarize the recent action. As this is a simple ratio of volume on up days to volume on down days over the last 50 days, it's not a perfect indicator, but it helps "see" the P/V action a little differently. I've used the IWM ETF as a proxy for the Russell 2000 so that you can see what I mean. See it at:http://Wallstreet-LLC.com/canslim/IWM112202.JPG Another tool I use extensively and that I like very much is Bill Lee's Excel spreadsheet. It's designed to help you read the market, but can also be used to "read" any individual stock. Each accumulation and distribution day is marked with a color and is *very* easy to see patterns of accumulation and distribution (yellow/orange/red for distribution, green for accumulation). See the last year of the NASDAQ and you can see what I mean....plenty of red most of the year, but plenty of green while the Naz built the right side of the cup. See a sample at:http://Wallstreet-LLC.com/canslim/NASDAQ112202.JPG. Bill's product is a moderately priced shareware program and I have no business affiliation with him....just a happy customer. Read more about his tool at http://www.market-tester.com Katherine ----- Original Message ----- From: Curt Corley To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:30 PMSubject: [CANSLIM] Volume and CWH (was M)
Katherine,
Thanks for your input. Your help is invaluable. I looked at the indices in TC2000 with MoneyStream and Time Segmented Volume. I looked at the NASDAQ, S&P-500, and Russell 2000. Here’s what I found on all 3 charts.
CMS:
MoneyStream stayed above it’s linear regression line on the left side of the cup, on the right side of the cup, and during the BO. However, it stayed below the linear regression line along the bottom of the cup and during the handle formation.
TSV:
TSV stayed mainly above the center line during the left-side of the cup. Toward the bottom of the cup, TSV plunged way below the zero line. On the right side of the cup, TSV shot high above the center line again. During the handle formation and the BO, TSV dipped down and back up again.
I guess this is supposed to tell me that volume supported the price action because there were no divergences. Since you mentioned Accumulation/Distribution, I probably should have looked at On Balance Volume and/or Balance of Power. However, I haven’t had much success with those indicators in the past.
I’m trying to become more proficient at chart reading, and you’re certainly helping a great deal along with other members of this list. Once again, thank you very much.
Cheers,
Curt
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Malm
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:58 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] M
Hi Curt,
I don't think when you're looking at patterns on major indexes such as the NASDAQ that the pattern of volume would be used in the same way that it is on an individual stock. My take on it is simply that an index represents a huge number of individual stocks, and while the general price pattern will indicate a reversal of a trend or a general shift in psychology and pattern of buying and selling in the market, the volume doesn't really tell you the same story as it does in an individual stock. In other words, I think that it's more important to look for a pattern of accumulation outpacing distribution (up days on higher volume than the previous day vs. down days on higher volume), than it is to look for the "bathtub" volume pattern that one would use on an individual stock.
Katherine
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Curt Corley
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 6:27 PM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] M
I’m glad you mentioned the General Markets & Sectors commentary in today’s IBD. I looked at the charts, and they did not appear to have rising volume on the sides of the cups. As a matter of fact, the heaviest volume days were at the very bottom of the cup. I don’t think the indices have shown great cwh characteristics. However, I’m a novice at this stuff, so I would appreciate any criticism or validation of my view.
Curt
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Short
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 3:11 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] M
Speaking of handles- what are peoples' thoughts on WON's comment from this morning about the NASDAQ forming a cup and handle? Volume in the handle seems a bit "imperfect" but I don't want to be the one to rain on the parade!
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<P>i'VE BEEN READING YOUR LATEST POSTINGS.
<P>How long do you spend a day on this? Is this your occupation?also do you find you get info overload? (that's the way I feel right now)
<P> <B><I>Katherine Malm <kmalm@earthlink.net></I></B> wrote:
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<DIV>Hi Curt,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm of a mind that simple is better when it comes to reading charts, and as with most things it just takes practice to become proficient, just as you suggested. I still "practice" every day. One of the things I like so much about the CANSLIM list is that people will often bring up stocks that I personally have glossed over, but I use their mention of a stock to practice reading the chart more closely. As chart reading is such a visual process, I think anything that helps interpret the price/volume action is helpful. I'm fairly purist, and stick to the simplest of indicators, but I find that the pattern of the Up/Down volume helps summarize the recent action. As this is a simple ratio of volume on up days to volume on down days over the last 50 days, it's not a perfect indicator, but it helps "see" the P/V action a little differently.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've used the IWM ETF as a proxy for the Russell 2000 so that you can see what I mean. See it at:</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://wallstreet-llc.com/canslim/IWM112202.JPG">http://Wallstreet-LLC.com/canslim/IWM112202.JPG</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Another tool I use extensively and that I like very much is Bill Lee's Excel spreadsheet. It's designed to help you read the market, but can also be used to "read" any individual stock. Each accumulation and distribution day is marked with a color and is *very* easy to see patterns of accumulation and distribution (yellow/orange/red for distribution, green for accumulation). See the last year of the NASDAQ and you can see what I mean....plenty of red most of the year, but plenty of green while the Naz built the right side of the cup. See a sample at:</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://wallstreet-llc.com/canslim/NASDAQ112202.JPG">http://Wallstreet-LLC.com/canslim/NASDAQ112202.JPG</A>. Bill's product is a moderately priced shareware program and I have no business affiliation with him....just a happy customer. Read more about his tool at <A href="http://www.market-tester.com/">http://www.market-tester.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Katherine</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=cjcorley@hiwaay.net href="mailto:cjcorley@hiwaay.net">Curt Corley</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=canslim@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 22, 2002 8:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] Volume and CWH (was M)</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Katherine,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for your input.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Your help is invaluable.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I looked at the indices in TC2000 with <SPAN class=SpellE>MoneyStream</SPAN> and Time Segmented Volume.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I looked at the NASDAQ, S&P-500, and Russell 2000.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Here’s what I found on all 3 charts.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">CMS:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=SpellE><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MoneyStream</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> stayed above <SPAN class=GramE>it’s</SPAN> linear regression line on the left side of the cup, on the right side of the cup, and during the BO.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, it stayed below the linear regression line along the bottom of the cup and during the handle formation.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">TSV:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">TSV stayed mainly above the center line during the left-side of the cup.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Toward the bottom of the cup, TSV plunged way below the zero line. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>On the right side of the cup, TSV shot high above the center line again.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>During the handle formation and the BO, TSV dipped down and back up again.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I guess this is supposed to tell me that volume supported the price action because there were no divergences.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Since you mentioned Accumulation/Distribution, I probably should have looked at On Balance Volume and/or Balance of Power.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, I haven’t had much success with those indicators in the past.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’m trying to become more proficient at chart reading, and you’re certainly helping a great deal along with other members of this list.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Once again, thank you very much.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Curt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Katherine Malm<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:date Month="11" Day="21" Year="2002"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Thursday, November 21, 2002</SPAN></FONT></st1:date><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN></FONT><st1:time Hour="22" Minute="58"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">10:58 PM</SPAN></FONT></st1:time><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> canslim@lists.xmission.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [CANSLIM] M</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi Curt,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I don't think when you're looking at patterns on major indexes such as the NASDAQ that the pattern of volume would be used in the same way that it is on an individual stock. My take on it is simply that an index represents a huge number of individual stocks, and while the general price pattern will indicate a reversal of a trend or a general shift in psychology and pattern of buying and selling in the market, the volume doesn't really tell you the same story as it does in an individual stock. In other words, I think that it's more important to look for a pattern of accumulation outpacing distribution (up days on higher volume than the previous day vs. down days on higher volume), than it is to look for the "bathtub" volume pattern that one would use on an individual stock.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Katherine<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=cjcorley@hiwaay.net href="mailto:cjcorley@hiwaay.net">Curt Corley</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=canslim@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Thursday, November 21, 2002 6:27 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> RE: [CANSLIM] M<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’m glad you mentioned the General Markets & Sectors commentary in today’s IBD.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I looked at the charts, and they did not appear to have rising volume on the sides of the cups.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>As a matter of fact, the heaviest volume days were at the very bottom of the cup.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I don’t think the indices have shown great cwh characteristics.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, I’m a novice at this stuff, so I would appreciate any criticism or validation of my view.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Curt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Kelly Short<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><st1:date Month="11" Day="21" Year="2002"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Thursday, November 21, 2002</SPAN></FONT></st1:date><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN></FONT><st1:time Hour="15" Minute="11"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">3:11 PM</SPAN></FONT></st1:time><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> canslim@lists.xmission.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [CANSLIM] M</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Speaking of handles- what are peoples' thoughts on WON's comment from this morning about the NASDAQ forming a cup and handle? Volume in the handle seems a bit "imperfect" but I don't want to be the one to rain on the parade!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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