Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Gene Ricci" <genr@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:26:44 -0500
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I can and I will send it to you offline.
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jonathan Lobatto=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete
Gene....an interesting post. At the risk of sliding even further into =
a non-Canslim discussion, is there a VV user out there that can explain =
or define the VV "relative safety" and "relative timing" features. How =
does "relative timing" differ from RS? Thanks.
Jon
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----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete
A couple of days ago someone asked about VectorVest and CANSLIM. =
Here's a person that thinks using VV is better than looking for CS =
candidates. I removed his name. The following was posted on one of the =
VectorVest Yahoo Groups this morning (by long time VV user).=20
Gene
Anti CANSLIM
=20
Much has been written about William O'Neil's stock selection and =
market timing. Glowing reports of great results and performances =
overshadow the errors in the system that prevent people from being =
successful investors. Here's my opinion of the Hollywood Huckster's =
system.
=20
1) William O'Neil has only one system of strategy - buying =
stocks on breakouts. Some people claim that this is the holy grail, but =
others have found that they're buying at the top of the stock, not the =
bottom of a great beginning. My personal experience has been that after =
I buy at a pivot point, the stock then plunges at least 20% so I have to =
dump the stock and wait until my account is sufficient to buy with. I =
have destroyed my account totally at least three times since beginning =
with the system. I used CANSLIM from 1988 to 1998, and had only one =
good year, 1991, when I matched the S&P. All other years I lost money. =
On the contrary, VectorVest has an unlimited number of strategies that =
can be implemented.
=20
2) William O'Neil has no idea as to when to sell a stock. In =
the book, How to Make Money in Stocks, he outlines 30 potential sell =
points. What I gather is that HE DOESN'T KNOW!! =20
=20
3) William O'Neil suggest that one should buy stocks only =
priced above 12 or 15 dollars a share. Sorry, fella, but penny stock =
strategies are sound, as Zach's Zoomers has been a great success.
=20
4) William O'Neil says you need to buy low cap stocks. What =
this means is that you buy stocks with 1 million float or so. This is =
more dangerous than ever, as the slightest activity of selling can sent =
the stock crashing.
=20
5) In Investor's Business Daily, you can find nothing that =
matches VectorVest's Relative Safety feature. Basically, IBD's highly =
touted stocks are a piece of trash that made it to the top rankings by =
earnings increase alone.
=20
6) The Relative Strength and Earnings Per Share rankings are of =
no use when trying to find quality stocks. VectorVest's Relative Timing =
is far superior as it gives an accurate picture of what the stock is =
doing in recent performance. IBD's ranking implies there are a certain =
number of stocks at 99, the same at 98 etc. Since the ranking is =
relative, you can't tell if the market is going under accumulation or =
distribution.
=20
7) Chart formation analysis is the bastion of IBD's system. =
However, you take a look at some of the formations and you will swear =
there is no rhyme or reason to buying the kind of stocks he suggests. =
Chart formations are not automatic and do not guarantee results. The =
cup and handle formation is not a trip to financial freedom as WON =
suggests.
8) William O'Neil has no safe strategy with his system. =
Basically, if you want to buy quality large cap stocks, you're out of =
luck. WON ran a mutual fund in the 1960's, and he was first one year =
then last the next. WON likes volatile stocks that move up and down =
fast for a wild ride. Sustainable results? Not likely. Also whiz kid =
David Ryan ran a mutual fund in the 1999's called the New USA Growth =
Fund. His performance was mediocre and the fund was sold after 5 years. =
David probably gave up as he wasn't getting spectacular results as well =
as he got in his contest results in the 1980's.
=20
9) The volume of chart formation reading makes CANSLIM a burden =
of beast instead of a easy reference that VV gives. With VV, at the =
touch of a button, I get 10 potential purchases. With CANSLIM I have to =
wade through tons of material to reach my 7 stocks. It's so much work =
you can't give any time to your life.
=20
10) William O'Neil suggest to buy one or two stocks if you have =
$5K to $10K and progress up to a 5 stock portfolio. Most beginning =
investors have a limited amount of money and the burden of picking big =
winners is very difficult. If they strike out on one or two stocks, how =
are they to regain confidence? On the contrary, VectorVest suggests =
buying 10 stocks at a time to diversify. CANSLIM does not diversify, in =
fact id concentrates into a few stocks. I would not stray from =
legendary stock guru John Templeton's way of diversification.
=20
11) Try to find a short strategy like VectorVest has and you'll =
have a hard time finding one in IBD. Because William O'Neil has been =
snuffed out in more bear markets than he can remember. He tried to do =
it with chart formations and it's not the way to go with shorts. =
VectorVest is right on target with short strategies, and it's at the =
touch of a button.
=20
12) CANSLIM - CAN'T SWIM
XXXXX
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I can and I will send it to you=20
offline.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djlobatto@nyc.rr.com =
href=3D"mailto:jlobatto@nyc.rr.com">Jonathan=20
Lobatto</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 22, 2003 =
6:26=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] *** OFF =
TOPIC ***=20
Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff>Gene....an interesting post. =
At the risk=20
of sliding even further into a non-Canslim discussion, is =
there a=20
VV user out there that can explain or define the VV "relative safety" =
and=20
"relative timing" features. How does "relative timing" differ from RS? =
Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff>Jon</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----------------------------------------------------<BR>This =
mailbox=20
protected from junk email by Matador<BR>from MailFrontier, Inc. <A=20
=
href=3D"http://info.mailfrontier.com">http://info.mailfrontier.com</A><BR=
></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dgenr@swbell.net href=3D"mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene =
Ricci</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 22, 2003 =
7:11=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] *** OFF =
TOPIC ***=20
Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">A couple of days ago someone asked =
about=20
VectorVest and CANSLIM. Here's a person that thinks using VV is =
better than=20
looking for CS candidates. I removed his name. The following =
was=20
posted on one of the VectorVest Yahoo Groups this morning =
(by long time=20
VV user).</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT face=3D"Comic =
Sans MS">=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">Anti CANSLIM</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">Much has been written about William =
O=92Neil=92s stock=20
selection and market timing.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>Glowing reports of great results and performances overshadow =
the=20
errors in the system that prevent people from being successful=20
investors.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Here=92s =
my opinion of=20
the Hollywood Huckster=92s system.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">1)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>William O=92Neil has only one system of strategy =96 buying =
stocks on=20
breakouts.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Some =
people claim=20
that this is the holy grail, but others have found that they=92re =
buying at=20
the top of the stock, not the bottom of a great beginning.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>My personal experience has =
been that=20
after I buy at a pivot point, the stock then plunges at least 20% so =
I have=20
to dump the stock and wait until my account is sufficient to buy =
with.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have destroyed my =
account totally=20
at least three times since beginning with the system.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I used CANSLIM from 1988 =
to 1998,=20
and had only one good year, 1991, when I matched the S&P.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All other years I lost =
money.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>On the contrary, =
VectorVest has an=20
unlimited number of strategies that can be implemented.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">2)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>William O=92Neil has no idea as to when to sell a stock.<SPAN =
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In the book, How to Make =
Money in=20
Stocks, he outlines 30 potential sell points.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What I gather is that HE =
DOESN=92T=20
KNOW!!<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">3)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>William O=92Neil suggest that one should buy stocks only =
priced above=20
12 or 15 dollars a share.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =20
</SPAN>Sorry, fella, but penny stock strategies are sound, as =
Zach=92s Zoomers=20
has been a great success.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">4)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>William O=92Neil says you need to buy low cap stocks.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What this means is that =
you buy=20
stocks with 1 million float or so.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>This is more dangerous than ever, as the slightest activity =
of=20
selling can sent the stock crashing.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">5)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>In=20
Investor=92s Business Daily, you can find nothing that matches =
VectorVest=92s=20
Relative Safety feature.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =20
</SPAN>Basically, IBD=92s highly touted stocks are a piece of trash =
that made=20
it to the top rankings by earnings increase alone.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">6)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>The Relative Strength and Earnings Per Share rankings are of =
no use=20
when trying to find quality stocks.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>VectorVest=92s Relative Timing is far superior as it gives an =
accurate=20
picture of what the stock is doing in recent performance.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>IBD=92s ranking implies =
there are a=20
certain number of stocks at 99, the same at 98 etc.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Since the ranking is =
relative, you=20
can=92t tell if the market is going under accumulation or=20
distribution.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">7)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>Chart formation analysis is the bastion of IBD=92s =
system.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, you take a look =
at some of=20
the formations and you will swear there is no rhyme or reason to =
buying the=20
kind of stocks he suggests.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =20
</SPAN>Chart formations are not automatic and do not guarantee =
results.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The cup and handle =
formation is not=20
a trip to financial freedom as WON suggests.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">8)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>William O=92Neil has no safe strategy with his system.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Basically, if you want to =
buy=20
quality large cap stocks, you=92re out of luck.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>WON ran a mutual fund in =
the 1960=92s,=20
and he was first one year then last the next. <SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>WON likes volatile stocks =
that move=20
up and down fast for a wild ride.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>Sustainable results?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>Not=20
likely.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Also whiz kid =
David=20
Ryan ran a mutual fund in the 1999=92s called the New USA Growth =
Fund.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>His performance was =
mediocre and the=20
fund was sold after 5 years.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>David probably gave up as he wasn=92t getting spectacular =
results as=20
well as he got in his contest results in the 1980=92s.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">9)<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> =
</SPAN>The volume of chart formation reading makes CANSLIM a burden =
of beast=20
instead of a easy reference that VV gives.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>With VV, at the touch of a =
button, I=20
get 10 potential purchases.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =20
</SPAN>With CANSLIM I have to wade through tons of material to reach =
my 7=20
stocks.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It=92s so =
much work you=20
can=92t give any time to your life.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">10)<SPAN style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>William =
O=92Neil suggest=20
to buy one or two stocks if you have $5K to $10K and progress up to =
a 5=20
stock portfolio.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Most =
beginning=20
investors have a limited amount of money and the burden of picking =
big=20
winners is very difficult.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>If=20
they strike out on one or two stocks, how are they to regain=20
confidence?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>On the =
contrary,=20
VectorVest suggests buying 10 stocks at a time to diversify.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>CANSLIM does not =
diversify, in fact=20
id concentrates into a few stocks.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>I would not stray from legendary stock guru John =
Templeton=92s way of=20
diversification.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">11)<SPAN style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Try to find a =
short=20
strategy like VectorVest has and you=92ll have a hard time finding =
one in=20
IBD.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Because William =
O=92Neil has=20
been snuffed out in more bear markets than he can remember.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He tried to do it with =
chart=20
formations and it=92s not the way to go with shorts.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>VectorVest is right on =
target with=20
short strategies, and it=92s at the touch of a button.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">12)<SPAN style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'"> =20
</SPAN>CANSLIM =96 CAN=92T SWIM</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: =
l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in =
0pt">XXXXX</P></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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