Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: Dave Stem <canslimdave2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:32:59 -0700 (PDT)
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- --0-1888718827-1058916779=:15906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Interesting post! I'd be very interested in knowing what the real world results of board members on here have been the last few years. I'm not asking for actual percentages, but has the CANSLIM method proved itself in real world trading with board members? What have your experiences been following or trying to follow CANSLIM? Thanks, Dave Jonathan Lobatto <jlobatto@nyc.rr.com> wrote: Gene....an interesting post. At the risk of sliding even further into a non-Canslim discussion, is there a VV user out there that can explain or define the VV "relative safety" and "relative timing" features. How does "relative timing" differ from RS? Thanks. Jon - ---------------------------------------------------- This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Ricci To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:11 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete A couple of days ago someone asked about VectorVest and CANSLIM. Here's a person that thinks using VV is better than looking for CS candidates. I removed his name. The following was posted on one of the VectorVest Yahoo Groups this morning (by long time VV user). Gene Anti CANSLIM Much has been written about William O’Neil’s stock selection and market timing. Glowing reports of great results and performances overshadow the errors in the system that prevent people from being successful investors. Here’s my opinion of the Hollywood Huckster’s system. 1) William O’Neil has only one system of strategy – buying stocks on breakouts. Some people claim that this is the holy grail, but others have found that they’re buying at the top of the stock, not the bottom of a great beginning. My personal experience has been that after I buy at a pivot point, the stock then plunges at least 20% so I have to dump the stock and wait until my account is sufficient to buy with. I have destroyed my account totally at least three times since beginning with the system. I used CANSLIM from 1988 to 1998, and had only one good year, 1991, when I matched the S&P. All other years I lost money. On the contrary, VectorVest has an unlimited number of strategies that can be implemented. 2) William O’Neil has no idea as to when to sell a stock. In the book, How to Make Money in Stocks, he outlines 30 potential sell points. What I gather is that HE DOESN’T KNOW!! 3) William O’Neil suggest that one should buy stocks only priced above 12 or 15 dollars a share. Sorry, fella, but penny stock strategies are sound, as Zach’s Zoomers has been a great success. 4) William O’Neil says you need to buy low cap stocks. What this means is that you buy stocks with 1 million float or so. This is more dangerous than ever, as the slightest activity of selling can sent the stock crashing. 5) In Investor’s Business Daily, you can find nothing that matches VectorVest’s Relative Safety feature. Basically, IBD’s highly touted stocks are a piece of trash that made it to the top rankings by earnings increase alone. 6) The Relative Strength and Earnings Per Share rankings are of no use when trying to find quality stocks. VectorVest’s Relative Timing is far superior as it gives an accurate picture of what the stock is doing in recent performance. IBD’s ranking implies there are a certain number of stocks at 99, the same at 98 etc. Since the ranking is relative, you can’t tell if the market is going under accumulation or distribution. 7) Chart formation analysis is the bastion of IBD’s system. However, you take a look at some of the formations and you will swear there is no rhyme or reason to buying the kind of stocks he suggests. Chart formations are not automatic and do not guarantee results. The cup and handle formation is not a trip to financial freedom as WON suggests. 8) William O’Neil has no safe strategy with his system. Basically, if you want to buy quality large cap stocks, you’re out of luck. WON ran a mutual fund in the 1960’s, and he was first one year then last the next. WON likes volatile stocks that move up and down fast for a wild ride. Sustainable results? Not likely. Also whiz kid David Ryan ran a mutual fund in the 1999’s called the New USA Growth Fund. His performance was mediocre and the fund was sold after 5 years. David probably gave up as he wasn’t getting spectacular results as well as he got in his contest results in the 1980’s. 9) The volume of chart formation reading makes CANSLIM a burden of beast instead of a easy reference that VV gives. With VV, at the touch of a button, I get 10 potential purchases. With CANSLIM I have to wade through tons of material to reach my 7 stocks. It’s so much work you can’t give any time to your life. 10) William O’Neil suggest to buy one or two stocks if you have $5K to $10K and progress up to a 5 stock portfolio. Most beginning investors have a limited amount of money and the burden of picking big winners is very difficult. If they strike out on one or two stocks, how are they to regain confidence? On the contrary, VectorVest suggests buying 10 stocks at a time to diversify. CANSLIM does not diversify, in fact id concentrates into a few stocks. I would not stray from legendary stock guru John Templeton’s way of diversification. 11) Try to find a short strategy like VectorVest has and you’ll have a hard time finding one in IBD. Because William O’Neil has been snuffed out in more bear markets than he can remember. He tried to do it with chart formations and it’s not the way to go with shorts. VectorVest is right on target with short strategies, and it’s at the touch of a button. 12) CANSLIM – CAN’T SWIM XXXXX - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - --0-1888718827-1058916779=:15906 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <DIV>Interesting post! I'd be very interested in knowing what the real world results of board members on here have been the last few years. I'm not asking for actual percentages, but has the CANSLIM method proved itself in real world trading with board members? What have your experiences been following or trying to follow CANSLIM?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dave<BR><BR><B><I>Jonathan Lobatto <jlobatto@nyc.rr.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; WIDTH: 100%"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff>Gene....an interesting post. At the risk of sliding even further into a non-Canslim discussion, is there a VV user out there that can explain or define the VV "relative safety" and "relative timing" features. How does "relative timing" differ from RS? Thanks.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff>Jon</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----------------------------------------------------<BR>This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador<BR>from MailFrontier, Inc. <A href="http://info.mailfrontier.com/">http://info.mailfrontier.com</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=genr@swbell.net href="mailto:genr@swbell.net">Gene Ricci</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=canslim@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:11 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">A couple of days ago someone asked about VectorVest and CANSLIM. Here's a person that thinks using VV is better than looking for CS candidates. I removed his name. The following was posted on one of the VectorVest Yahoo Groups this morning (by long time VV user).</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"> </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Anti CANSLIM</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Much has been written about William O’Neil’s stock selection and market timing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Glowing reports of great results and performances overshadow the errors in the system that prevent people from being successful investors.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Here’s my opinion of the Hollywood Huckster’s system.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">1)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>William O’Neil has only one system of strategy – buying stocks on breakouts.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Some people claim that this is the holy grail, but others have found that they’re buying at the top of the stock, not the bottom of a great beginning.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>My personal experience has been that after I buy at a pivot point, the stock then plunges at least 20% so I have to dump the stock and wait until my account is sufficient to buy with.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have destroyed my account totally at least three times since beginning with the system.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I used CANSLIM from 1988 to 1998, and had only one good year, 1991, when I matched the S&P.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All other years I lost money.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>On the contrary, VectorVest has an unlimited number of strategies that can be implemented.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">2)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>William O’Neil has no idea as to when to sell a stock.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In the book, How to Make Money in Stocks, he outlines 30 potential sell points.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What I gather is that HE DOESN’T KNOW!!<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">3)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>William O’Neil suggest that one should buy stocks only priced above 12 or 15 dollars a share.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Sorry, fella, but penny stock strategies are sound, as Zach’s Zoomers has been a great success.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">4)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>William O’Neil says you need to buy low cap stocks.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What this means is that you buy stocks with 1 million float or so.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This is more dangerous than ever, as the slightest activity of selling can sent the stock crashing.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">5)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>In Investor’s Business Daily, you can find nothing that matches VectorVest’s Relative Safety feature.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Basically, IBD’s highly touted stocks are a piece of trash that made it to the top rankings by earnings increase alone.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">6)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>The Relative Strength and Earnings Per Share rankings are of no use when trying to find quality stocks.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>VectorVest’s Relative Timing is far superior as it gives an accurate picture of what the stock is doing in recent performance.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>IBD’s ranking implies there are a certain number of stocks at 99, the same at 98 etc.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Since the ranking is relative, you can’t tell if the market is going under accumulation or distribution.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">7)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>Chart formation analysis is the bastion of IBD’s system.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, you take a look at some of the formations and you will swear there is no rhyme or reason to buying the kind of stocks he suggests.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Chart formations are not automatic and do not guarantee results.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The cup and handle formation is not a trip to financial freedom as WON suggests.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">8)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>William O’Neil has no safe strategy with his system.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Basically, if you want to buy quality large cap stocks, you’re out of luck.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>WON ran a mutual fund in the 1960’s, and he was first one year then last the next. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>WON likes volatile stocks that move up and down fast for a wild ride.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Sustainable results?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Not likely.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Also whiz kid David Ryan ran a mutual fund in the 1999’s called the New USA Growth Fund.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>His performance was mediocre and the fund was sold after 5 years.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>David probably gave up as he wasn’t getting spectacular results as well as he got in his contest results in the 1980’s.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">9)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>The volume of chart formation reading makes CANSLIM a burden of beast instead of a easy reference that VV gives.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>With VV, at the touch of a button, I get 10 potential purchases.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>With CANSLIM I have to wade through tons of material to reach my 7 stocks.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s so much work you can’t give any time to your life.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">10)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>William O’Neil suggest to buy one or two stocks if you have $5K to $10K and progress up to a 5 stock portfolio.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Most beginning investors have a limited amount of money and the burden of picking big winners is very difficult.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If they strike out on one or two stocks, how are they to regain confidence?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>On the contrary, VectorVest suggests buying 10 stocks at a time to diversify.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>CANSLIM does not diversify, in fact id concentrates into a few stocks.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I would not stray from legendary stock guru John Templeton’s way of diversification.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">11)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Try to find a short strategy like VectorVest has and you’ll have a hard time finding one in IBD.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Because William O’Neil has been snuffed out in more bear markets than he can remember.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He tried to do it with chart formations and it’s not the way to go with shorts.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>VectorVest is right on target with short strategies, and it’s at the touch of a button.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman">12)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>CANSLIM – CAN’T SWIM</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">XXXXX</P></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1> Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=10469/*http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com">Yahoo! 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