Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: "Katherine Malm" <kmalm@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Another mystery plunge
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:30:42 -0500
Previous Article (by Date): Re: [CANSLIM] Another mystery plunge "DMC197807"
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Hi Gene,
There is never intention to stray from CANSLIM principles. As you know, I am
very much a purist in my interpretation of CANSLIM, though I do recognize and
speak freely on the limitations and pitfalls of IBD industry and stock rankings.
In all of our help files we also caution about the limitations of each
particular measurement, whether it is the CE score or an industry ranking/score.
CE scores are not intended to emulate IBD's proprietary rankings such as
SMR/EPS/Timeliness/AD and other Stock Checkup rankings that they use on the
Investors.com site so you there is not a comparison of one vs. another. Instead,
we provide a way for people to grasp the general technical health of the stock
(CET) and the how closely the stock's fundamentals match the CANSLIM yardstick
(CEF). Again, neither of these are used to identify stocks setting up, just the
technical price action of the stock. The help files throughout the site itself
explain industry ranks, ranks within industry, etc, so I will not go into them
here, as that would not be appropriate for general discussion on a public
CANSLIM list. The help file on the charts, which we also make available to
CANSLIM list members, give the definitions of key items such as comparative RS
(RS Line), RS (RS Rank), U/D ratio etc. See it by clicking on the help file on
a chart:
http://www.breakoutwatch.com/charts/kmchart.php
These are the same as the indicators you see on IBD/DGO charts, as they are
standardized technical measurements, not IBD proprietary measurements. The only
difference is that we do not include Canadian stocks in our database as does
IBD/DGO, so our RSRanks are slightly different as a result. The same is true of
HGSI/QP2, which also does not include Canadian stocks.
As you know, over the years, the DGO/IBD staff and lawyers lurk on our list.
They have made a habit of sending legal letters or making phone calls from their
lawyers to individuals on this list when they feel their proprietary data is
being encroached. That effectively prevents any of us from using one of their
IBD or DGO charts for annotations during a discussion, and for the most part
from even *mentioning* the values of proprietary indicators such as SMR, EPS,
AD, etc. In my discussion with the head of the Wm O'Neil Corporation, I asked
why they did not allow us to use these for discussions, as it was difficult to
have meaningful CANSLIM discussions by the book when we were not allowed to
quote these values. I asked in vein if they would be willing to provide our list
with good faith guidelines, as using their data and their products in discussion
actually promoted the use of their products. They did not respond.
As a result, Mike & I wanted to provide an alternative for list members that
would allow them, without fear of retribution, be able to discuss the
fundamental and/or technical attributes of a stock, and that was the reason we
continue to make both the CANSLIM evaluator and our charts available to folks
here on the list.
Katherine
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Gene Ricci
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:39 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Another mystery plunge
Katherine, many thanks for the links to the explanation of the BOW
terminology. Using terms different than the IBD language is hard on those that
don't subscribe. In fact, getting agreement on the meaning of IBD terminology
is a chore in itself. I hope that this user group doesn't stray far from the WON
concepts/terminology that took me quite some to learn and gain a minimal working
knowledge of.....
If my interpretation of the BOW terminology is correct, CET does not stand for
TA but rather a minimum set of objective technical criteria that is part of your
service. I couldn't find a matrix showing how your definitions match IBD's
definitions.
Can I assume that your numbers for the following match IBDs?
1. RS
2. Industry Rank prior to the secondary sort
3. Up/Down Ratio
BTW, the new design of your site looks to be user friendly!
regards,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Katherine Malm
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Another mystery plunge
Gene,
Please see the help file on our CE scores at:
http://www.breakoutwatch.com/canslim/CE_methodology.htm
This file is available by clicking the "Help" button on the Canslim
Evaluator, which we make available to the CANSLIM list members who wish to use
it
http://www.breakoutwatch.com/canslim/
On CET specifically (from the help file, emphasis added),
"In How to Make Money in Stocks, O’Neil describes the preferred technical
condition of a stock at the time of a breakout, but does not provide a more
general description of a “technically healthy” stock. As the goal of the CET is
to provide some means of determining the technical health of a stock whether or
not it is setting up for a breakout, we assign a score based on objective
measurements of the stock’s price/volume action over the intermediate to long
term. Scores do not take into account very near term action of the stock such as
a recent breakdown, reversal, a broken short-term trend etc. "
Katherine
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Gene Ricci
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 10:21 AM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Another mystery plunge
Hong, can you translate CET terminology into IBD jargon?
Thanks,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Hong Hsu
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Another mystery plunge
DMC,
For OSTE, the total TA score (CET) from breakoutwatch.com is 6.8
out of 7. With that score I will tend to believe it has solid TA. Does
it? Maybe Katherine could share her insight.
-Hong
-
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-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email.
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003>Hi Gene,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003>There is never intention to stray =
from=20
CANSLIM principles. As you know, I am very much a purist in my =
interpretation of=20
CANSLIM, though I do recognize and speak freely on the limitations and=20
pitfalls of IBD industry and stock rankings. In all of our help =
files we=20
also caution about the limitations of each particular measurement, =
whether=20
it is the CE score or an industry ranking/score. CE scores =
are not=20
intended to emulate IBD's proprietary rankings such as =
SMR/EPS/Timeliness/AD and=20
other Stock Checkup rankings that they use on the Investors.com site so =
you=20
there is not a comparison of one vs. another. Instead, we provide a way =
for=20
people to grasp the general technical health of the stock (CET) and the =
how=20
closely the stock's fundamentals match the CANSLIM yardstick (CEF).=20
Again, neither of these are used to identify stocks =
setting up,=20
just the technical price action of the stock. The help files=20
throughout the site itself explain industry ranks, ranks within =
industry, etc,=20
so I will not go into them here, as that would not be appropriate for =
general=20
discussion on a public CANSLIM list. The help file on the charts, which =
we also=20
make available to CANSLIM list members, give the definitions of key =
items such=20
as comparative RS (RS Line), RS (RS Rank), U/D ratio etc. See it =
by=20
clicking on the help file on a chart:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003><A=20
href=3D"http://www.breakoutwatch.com/charts/kmchart.php">http://www.break=
outwatch.com/charts/kmchart.php</A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003>These are the same as the =
indicators you see=20
on IBD/DGO charts, as they are standardized technical measurements, not =
IBD=20
proprietary measurements. The only difference is that we do not include =
Canadian=20
stocks in our database as does IBD/DGO, so our RSRanks are slightly =
different as=20
a result. The same is true of HGSI/QP2, which also does not include =
Canadian=20
stocks. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003>As you know, over the years, the =
DGO/IBD=20
staff and lawyers lurk on our list. They have made a habit of sending =
legal=20
letters or making phone calls from their lawyers to individuals on this =
list=20
when they feel their proprietary data is being encroached. That =
effectively=20
prevents any of us from using one of their IBD or DGO charts for =
annotations=20
during a discussion, and for the most part from even *mentioning* the =
values of=20
proprietary indicators such as SMR, EPS, AD, etc. In my discussion with =
the head=20
of the Wm O'Neil Corporation, I asked why they did not allow us to use =
these for=20
discussions, as it was difficult to have meaningful CANSLIM discussions =
by the=20
book when we were not allowed to quote these values. I asked in vein if =
they=20
would be willing to provide our list with good faith guidelines, as =
using their=20
data and their products in discussion actually promoted the use of their =
products. They did not respond.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003>As a result, Mike & I wanted =
to provide=20
an alternative for list members that would allow them, without fear of=20
retribution, be able to discuss the fundamental and/or technical =
attributes of a=20
stock, and that was the reason we continue to make both the CANSLIM =
evaluator=20
and our charts available to folks here on the list. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003>Katherine</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600335519-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Gene=20
Ricci<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 25, 2003 12:39 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
canslim@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] Another =
mystery=20
plunge<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Katherine, many thanks for the links =
to the=20
explanation of the BOW terminology. Using terms different than the IBD =
language is hard on those that don't subscribe. In fact, getting =
agreement on the meaning of IBD terminology is a chore in itself. =
I hope=20
that this user group doesn't stray far from the WON=20
concepts/terminology that took me quite some to learn and=20
gain a minimal working knowledge of.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">If my interpretation of the BOW =
terminology is=20
correct, CET does not stand for TA but rather a minimum set of =
objective=20
technical criteria that is part of your service. I couldn't find a =
matrix=20
showing how your definitions match IBD's =
definitions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Can I assume that your =
numbers for the=20
following match IBDs?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">1. RS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">2. Industry Rank prior to the =
secondary=20
sort</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">3. Up/Down Ratio</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">BTW, the new design of your site =
looks to be=20
user friendly!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkmalm@earthlink.net =
href=3D"mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net">Katherine=20
Malm</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 25, 2003 =
11:36=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CANSLIM] =
Another mystery=20
plunge</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003>Gene,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003>Please see the help file on =
our CE=20
scores at:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.breakoutwatch.com/canslim/CE_methodology.htm">http://w=
ww.breakoutwatch.com/canslim/CE_methodology.htm</A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003>This file is available by =
clicking the=20
"Help" button on the Canslim Evaluator, which we make available to =
the=20
CANSLIM list members who wish to use it</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.breakoutwatch.com/canslim/">http://www.breakoutwatch.c=
om/canslim/</A><A=20
href=3D"http://www.breakoutwatch.com/"></A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003>On CET specifically (from the =
help file,=20
emphasis added),</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003>"In <I>How to Make Money in =
Stocks,=20
</I>O=92Neil describes the preferred technical condition of a stock =
at the=20
time of a breakout, but does not provide a more general description =
of a=20
=93technically healthy=94 stock. As the goal of the CET is to =
provide some means=20
of determining the technical health of a stock whether or not it is =
setting=20
up for a breakout, we assign a score based on objective measurements =
of the=20
stock=92s price/volume action over the intermediate to long term.=20
<EM><STRONG>Scores do not take into account very near term action of =
the=20
stock such as a recent breakdown, reversal, a broken short-term =
trend=20
etc.</STRONG></EM> <EM>"</EM></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D818323116-25072003>Katherine</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Gene=20
Ricci<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 25, 2003 10:21 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
canslim@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
Another=20
mystery plunge<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Hong, can you translate CET =
terminology=20
into IBD jargon? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Gene</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dhonghsu@bellatlantic.net=20
href=3D"mailto:honghsu@bellatlantic.net">Hong Hsu</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcanslim@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.com">canslim@lists.xmission.com</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 25, =
2003 11:12=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CANSLIM] =
Another=20
mystery plunge</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV> =
DMC,<BR><BR> =20
For OSTE, the total TA score (CET) from breakoutwatch.com =
is 6.8=20
<BR>out of 7. With that score I will tend to believe it =
has solid=20
TA. Does <BR>it? Maybe Katherine could share =
her=20
insight.<BR><BR> -Hong<BR><BR><BR><BR>-<BR>-To =
subscribe/unsubscribe, email "<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:majordomo@xmission.com">majordomo@xmission.com</A>"<BR>-In=
=20
the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or<BR>-"unsubscribe=20
canslim". Do not use quotes in your=20
=
email.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML>
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Previous Article (by Date): Re: [CANSLIM] Another mystery plunge "DMC197807"
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