RE: Medicare/Medicaid - Running out of assets

From: "Nelson E. Timken, Esq." <netimken@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Medicare/Medicaid - Running out of assets
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:47:24 -0400

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Dear "Professor":
(one who professes, which in your case is obviously quite apt)

This is a discussion list to answer questions and assist people, not to
voice your personal opinions regarding "welfare". My purpose in posting was
to answer such a question regarding the transfer of assets for purposes of
Medicaid eligibility. It was NOT to enter into some snide discussion with
you regarding whether Medicaid was welfare or not. Accordingly, comments
such as:

"(and yeah, sorry to hurt your feelings, but Medicaid, Medicare, and
all related assistance programs are a form of welfare You don't like the
word welfare, get CIGNA.)"

along with the remainder of your pedantry, really have no place here.
Medicaid is a program to assist those who cannot afford medical care. In our
paychecks, we are taxed for programs such as these, in the form of a social
security tax. Welfare assists those who cannot work, and therefore do not
pay into the system. My mother worked for 50 years and paid into the system.
If she and others like her do not wish to impoverish themselves in order to
receive benefits from a system they paid into, then it is their right to
transfer assets to their children to do so. They need not take out a CIGNA
policy, unless of course they desire to supplement their benefits. It is
perfectly legal to make transfers for Medicaid eligibility purposes, as long
as you do not do this within three years of when you are seeking what you so
negatively refer to as "welfare". I was trying to be polite and spare your
feelings, since you obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about,
but since you have responded in a personal manner such as the above, let me
clue you in.

>From your comment:

"Um ...maybe the operative word is? "incapacitated?"  My family went through
this same situation with my late grandmother, who was notmentally
incapacitated, but sat on her assets until she realized they were running
out, then tried to transfer them to family members to take advantage of
welfare programs"

I surmise that your grandmother tried to transfer her assets on the eve of
desiring to collect Medicaid benefits. This is clearly not allowed, as it
violates the statutory lookback period. This is why the attorneys told you
that it could not be done. Had your grandmother transferred her assets three
years prior to desiring to collect Medicaid, that would have been a
different scenario. It makes little difference whether the person
effectuating the transfer is incapacitated except that in the case of an IP,
all transfers MUST be court-approved, and the lookback period runs, not from
the date of application for benefits, but from the date of the transfer.

If you have further need to comment, I suggest that before you do so, you
check out the Mental Health Laws of your state, so that you will not be
entering this battle as unarmed as you are now. As part of my training as a
court-appointed Guardian, I was required to take a course in Article 81 of
the New York Mental Health Law, which governs the treatment of Guardianships
and Incapacitated persons within New York State. I make my comments from
knowledge I have acquired as a result of my two years as a Guardian, having
successfully transferred assets for the purpose of establishing Medicaid
eligibility with the requisite court approval.

This will be my final comment on this. I only hope that, aside from YOUR
ignorant and judgmental ramblings, the balance of the comments from OTHERS
have been of assistance to the person originally asking the question.






- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-persfin@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-persfin@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of MsProf2U@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 11:54 AM
To: persfin@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Medicare/Medicade - Running out of assets




<<
 I preface what I am about to say by telling you that you should not rely on
 it. I am not an estate/elder law attorney. . I am an attorney and a
guardian
to my incapacitated mother. I do therefore have some practical knowledge. >>

Um ...maybe the operative word is? "incapacitated?"  My family went through
this same situation with my late grandmother, who was notmentally
incapacitated, but sat on her assets until she realized they were running
out,
then tried to transfer them to family members to take advantage of welfare
programs (and yeah, sorry to hurt your feelings, but Medicaid, Medicare, and
all related assistance programs are a form of welfare You don't like the
word
welfare, get CIGNA.). We spoke to attorneys who DO specialize in this sort
of
thing (they have more than as "some practical knowledge"), and learned that
in
the past five years, laws dealing with transferring assets have greatly
changed, for the stricter.



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