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Subject: persfin-digest V4 #8
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:32:40 -0500 (EST)
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persfin-digest Tuesday, March 18 1997 Volume 04 : Number 008
IN THIS ISSUE:
ADVERTISEMENT: MCI AUTOFORWARD
Re: Reporting Business Closing On Schedule C?
Re: 401K rollover into IRA?
Re: Re:3M 120 disk drives and Tax ploys
Zip vs. LS-120 drives and Iomega's Terrible Customer Service
Housing Question - Buy Condo Before Buying House?
Major Index Divergences - S&P vs. NASDAQ
When is a stock undervalued / fully valued?
Re: American Business Alliance long distance service?
IRA for college expenses?
re: 90% ROI on a Mortgage?
RE: storage, Zip and other strange disks...
Re: Buying the Latest Technology Builds Morale?
Re: IRS Auto Cost Deduction
Zip drive vs. LS-120
Free Tax Software (Tax Mate by Parsons)
Liability Insurance?
Is Auto Excise Tax for Auto Lease Tax Deductible?
Re: DJIA Composition Change
"At Risk" Amount in Real Estate Investing?
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:01:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Oppenheimer Software <Connect-Sales@mcimail.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:03:24 -0500 (EST)
From: bonsai@world.std.com
Subject: Re: Reporting Business Closing On Schedule C?
Yan wrote:
>
>We tried a home based business and failed in 1996. Though we sold some of
>our purchases, there is still plenty left which we don't think we would ever
>sell any more. In a word, our profit is much less than the cost.
This sounds like a job for IRS Publications 334 (Tax Guide for Small
Businesses) and 544 (Sales and other Dispositions of Assets)!
I AM NOT A TAX PROFESSIONAL -- this is my understanding, as a fellow
sole-proprietor: if you have disolved the business, *I believe* the
"inventory" simply becomes "property" and, as such, it is treated as a
regular gain or loss on ...??? form 1040?
Your question raises another question in my mind: you don't say how long
you attempted this business, it sounds like it may have been just one year?
If so, I'm curious to know how the IRS would classify that activity, since
the "presumption that an activity is for profit" tests tend to be based
over a longer term (several years) -- does anyone have any idea about this?
Bonnie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:04:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
Subject: Re: 401K rollover into IRA?
[Disclaimer: this is my opinion, not advice. I am not a professional.]
>Here's a question. If you have a 401K and terminate employment, you can
>rollover the 401K into an IRA. That will avoid the 20% withholding and the
>10% early disbursement penalty. However, can you then withdraw an annuity
>(based on IRS life expectancies) and avoid the 10% penalty (pre- age 59
>1/2)?
Yes. Once the funds are into an IRA, regular IRA rules (including the
one about no penalty in the case of "substantially equal" withdrawals
for the *longer* of 5 years or until you reach 59.5) apply to it.
Just keep in mind that if you screw up at all (or have to take extra
money out of that IRA account one year for an emergency, or take less
out because the investments in it have done badly) then the penalty
will apply *retroactively* to all previous "annuity" withdrawals.
And of course, regular income tax applies to the extent that the
withdrawals are taxable (if you've made non-deductible contributions
to ANY IRA account, then part of ANY withdrawal, even from a different
IRA account, will be non-taxable -- see Form 8606).
Rich Carreiro
rlcarr@animato.pn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:05:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
Subject: Re: Re:3M 120 disk drives and Tax ploys
[Disclaimer: this is my opinion, not advice. I am not a professional.]
> Here's an interesting tax question I've never seen an answer to.
>There are several companies that call their dividends a "return of
>capital" which makes the dividends taxfree. Two of these are Star Gas
First, it's not the healthiest thing for companies to do that. I
believe is classified as a return of capital when the dividend exceeds
that company's profits for the year -- in other words when at least
part of the dividend comes out of past years' retained earnings. That
part of the div is then a return of capital. I don't know that I'd like
to invest in a company that consistently pays out more than it earns.
Now, it may well be the case that in certain industries accounting
conventions lead to this happening tax-wise but not economically, in
which case it's not quite as bad.
>Partners (SGASZ) and Freeport-McMoran (FRP). Now the question. What if
>a person held these companies long enough that the "return of capital"
>equaled the cost of the shares? Would the cost basis now be zero? What
Yes, basis would now be zero.
>if you held them even longer? Going one step further, what if they were
>held till the cost basis went negative and then were left to a
Cost basis cannot go below zero. When the cost basis hits zero, any
further ROCs are taxed as long-term capital gains. See IRS Pub 550.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:06:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Meinken <kmeinken@one.net>
Subject: Zip vs. LS-120 drives and Iomega's Terrible Customer Service
The LS-120 drive (combined 3-1/2" floppy and 120 MB cartridge) isn't all
that new. Its been out for over a year and has not gained much market
share. I've been watching to see if they would become a standard and so
far the progress has been minimal. I've also heard of reliability
problems with them although I don't have any direct knowledge on this
front.
I definitely agree with the person who commented on Iomega's terrible
customer service. It has to be among the worst in the industry.
A final point: cartridges like these definitely have their places
especially for external backup and transfering information. However, they
are a very expensive way to solve a shortage of hard disk space. With
large harddrives now going for $100/GB, adding another harddrive will be
more cost effective, more reliable, and faster.
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:07:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert Loeser" <Robert_Loeser@Medec.com>
Subject: Housing Question - Buy Condo Before Buying House?
=20
I'm getting married in six months. My fiancee=82 and I are planning t=
o=20
rent an apartment for a year or two in order to save money for a down=
=20
payment on a house. This past weekend, we were apartment hunting when=
=20
we saw a very nice condo that rents for $850, but that can be bought=
=20
for about $70,000. The Realtor mentioned that we could get in for=20
about $7000. That would be 3% down plus closing costs. Supposedly,=
=20
the common charges, mortgage payments and taxes would run about $950 a=
=20
month. I was thinking we could buy the place, live there a few years,=
=20
take advantage of the tax write-offs and then rent it when we are=20
ready to buy a bigger place. By renting it we can continue to take=20
advantage of the tax write-offs, and someone else will be paying off=
=20
the mortgage. This sounds too good to be true. Am I missing=20
something? Any other advice?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:08:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "David F. Cameron" <dcameron@harper.cc.il.us>
Subject: Major Index Divergences - S&P vs. NASDAQ
Does it concern anyone else that the S&P and the NASDAQ are traveling
such divergent paths? If so, read on....
According to 45 year historical data in Yale Hirsch's _1997
Stock Trader's Almanac_, as goes the S&P500 in January, so goes
the market over the entire year. "If the S&P500 >= +1.6% in January,
there is a 88% chance of a market gain of greater than 10% for the
entire year." (My comment.... 88% chance implies the future will be
just like the past - I don't buy this - but nevertheless the facts
are striking)
As most of you know, the S&P 500 was up over 1.6% in January. This
would imply that the "market" (which I assume means the S&P) should
finish up +10% if the future mirrors the past. In fact, to further
quote: "If the S&P500 closes up more than 4.0%, the January barometer
has accurately forecast 13 out of 13 up years since 1950. The
average gain those years was 24.6%." Shall we make it 14 out of 14?
Or 13 out of 14? Based on this, we should look for a strong run
by the S&P.
But.... I, for one, am concerned for reasons other than the assumption
that since it has happened in the past, it must happen again mentality.
Whereas I remain long-term bullish for the U.S. markets, by my calculations,
the S&P is up 7.3% for the year - whereas the NASDAQ is now 0.8% down for
the year. To me, this is serious divergence. At the current rate, the
S&P 500 index will catch the NASDAQ at some point (I doubt this will
happen). But extrapolating this year's performance to date would have
the S&P and the NASDAQ meet in the mid-1100's around 3rd qtr '98.
Obviously this is ludicrous, but the comparison is intended to get
you thinking: How long can this divergence go on?
Either it goes on indefinitely where the S&P and NASDAQ are equal in
say September 1998. Or, more likely the divergence reverses and
either the S&P drops noticeably or the NASDAQ gains noticeably.
THose of you still invested are betting on one or the other to
some degree. I don't have an opinion which way it'll go - but I'd
either be short the S&P or long NASDAQ stocks.
Comments?
Dave Cameron
dcameron@harper.cc.il.us
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:09:18 -0500 (EST)
From: paulc@epic.com (Paul Collins)
Subject: When is a stock undervalued / fully valued?
Hello:
This is a question for individual investors who trade stocks. I want to
buy stocks when they are "undervalued" and sell them when they are "fully
valued". How do you determine when a stock is undervalued? fully valued?
Thanks,
- -Paul Collins
paulc@epic.com
(Editor's Comment - The $64 question, if there ever was one. -IK)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Boris Varshavsky <borisv@ctron.com>
Subject: Re: American Business Alliance long distance service?
Al,
>They claim to have no monthly fees and that they can guarantee the
>40% off AT&T
It's certainly 40% off MAXIMUM rate. You can do much better using some
better-fitting-your-needs plan from AT&T or other LD.
I just got on 10c/minute rate from AT&T. It's 24-hours flat rate, no
monthly fee and it's good for 6 months. They also have 10c flat on
7pm-7am (and whole weekends) plan (no fee) and $4.95/months would give
you 10cents flat, period. (AFAIK, all limited time offers end you up
with their flat 15cents rate)
If you add up any deal-sweeteners ($10-$15-$25 checks/credits from
AT&T/MCI/Sprint), the effective rate will be in par with rockbottom
deals mentioned on persfin before (Cherry Communications, Affinity,
etc)
- -Boris
Dover,NH http://www.concentric.net/~varsh
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:11:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Drew Blaha <drew_blaha@gilbarco.com>
Subject: IRA for college expenses?
My understanding of IRAs is that I can withdraw money at any age as long as
I use a life expectancy table and continue to withdraw for at least 5 years.
First, does that sound correct to any of you experts? Does that mean I can
stop withdrawing after 5 years, and maybe start contributing again?
Does this seem like a good way to help save for college? I would get the
tax savings for the earnings, but wouldn't have to give up control of the
money.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Drew Blaha
drew_blaha@gilbarco.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:12:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert Bly" <robly@fdic.gov>
Subject: re: 90% ROI on a Mortgage?
In answer to the gentleman who thinks he is paying 90% interest on his
mortgage: Although the total interest paid on a 30 year loan is onerous, it
is not a 90% ROI to the lender. For example, on a $100,000 loan at 8%, the
first payment of $733.77 would include $666.67 in interest, which would be
about 91% of *that payment*. However, of the approximate $8,805 in total
payments the first year ($733.77 x 12), only about $8,000 of that is
interest, which is an 8% return on the $100,000 loaned by the bank.
Borrowers sometimes forget that because the loan amount is not in their
pocket, it was still disbursed by the lender. All of that said, lending
money to people who repay on schedule is a *very* profitable business.
R.D. Bly - "Money While You Sleep" 1-800-266-5564
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:13:42 -0500 (EST)
From: ECHA@npr.org
Subject: RE: storage, Zip and other strange disks...
It is true the LS-120 is coming as competition to Zip drive. But, the
biggest LS selling point, backward compatability with todays floppy, is a
small selling point indeed.
first, the LS has no aftermarket. Virtually all personal computers
today have a 1.44 mb floppy drive in them already. adding an LS to it is
not a great option. They're more expensive than Zip, and they're slower.
By the way, the technology is inherently more expensive because it is
optical technology. Also, two of the companies cited in an earlier note
said Exabyte and Compaq were two companies involved in LS 120. But
Compaq is including Zip in one of it's models, and Exabyte also just
announced an agreement with Iomega on working with Zip.
With regard to support, it is true you have to pay for it. But, in the last
few months, Iomega said they're beefing this up.
Will Zip replace the floppy? Who knows. But, as an option for moving,
storing, and manipulating large amounts of information (relative to the
1.44 mb floppy) it is the cheapest, fastest, most available option.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:14:36 -0500 (EST)
From: BILL.GRIFFIN@usoc.org (BILL GRIFFIN)
Subject: Re: Buying the Latest Technology Builds Morale?
>One should not disregard the additional productivity brought about by
the increase in morale by getting new equipment. <
There is a morale benefit but I don't think the speed increase ever
catches up with the downtime of installing the new computer and
getting all the software working again. I am a programmer and would
like the latest greatest but I know I lose a couple days every time I
switch hardware to save those few seconds here and there. Same goes
for software upgrades that suck too much time into finding the newest
bugs and learning the changes. If you do have to change computers in
a business environment, I say get the top of the line so you buy the
longest time until the next change. I program on a Pentium 100 but I
have clients that have just bought the whole company (100+) Pentium
Pros. Sure the have people that don't really know how to use the
computer overpowered, but they won't need to change computers in a
year either. Unless of course they keep with Microsoft's upgrades that
suck the life out of any new computer.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:15:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Ian Haggard <ian@shellus.com>
Subject: Re: IRS Auto Cost Deduction
> I have a friend who is a salesman who puts 60,000 miles per year on his
> car. His employer pays a $180 per week allowance for all auto costs. A
> little quick calculation revealed an almost $10,000 unreimbursed expense,
> if you calculate at $.31 per mile.
>
> 60,000 miles * $.31/mile $18,600 "cost" -
> - ($180/wk * 50 weeks) $9000 auto allowance
> = $9,600 unreimbursed expense???
>
> Does anyone actually know if the IRS will allow my friend to deduct this
> amount?
The Houston Chronicle just yesterday had an article on the front page of
their business section that listed 60 tax tips. This was among them.
Yes, the IRS will allow you to deduct the difference between what your
employer reimbursed you and the $.31/mile deduction. And don't forget
that your friend can also deduct parking and toll fees in addition to
the $.31/mile (another thing the Chronicle mentioned).
And remember, this advice is worth what you paid for it. BTW The
Chronicle is on line at http://www.chron.com. I was able to do a search
on "60 tax tips" and find the complete text of the article in
yesterday's paper. You do have to "register" in order to get the text
of articles, but registration is free. And no, I'm not affiliated with
the Chronicle, except as a subscriber. Both of the things I mentioned
were listed in tip #16 in the article.
- --
Ian Haggard || ian@shellus.com (work) || IanHaggard@juno.com (home)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:20:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Kurt Nosack <KNOSACK@novell.com>
Subject: Zip drive vs. LS-120
For those considering a Zip drive or LS-120, here a few things to consider.
LS-120 can read 3.5" disks, but don't most people already have a 3.5"
drive? However, you may not have an empty drive bay.
LS-120 is slower than Zip. I don't have the details, but have heard it
many times. Also, when considering speed, you can buy Zip drives in three
different configurations.
SCSI--fast, but you need a SCSI adapter (not as common as IDE).
IDE--also fast, plugs right into IDE connectors (which most computers
have, but since hard drives and CD-ROMS use them as well, you may not have
one available).
Parallel port--slow, but can connect to almost all computers (just install
drivers and your working).
Portability/sharability. You can get external SCSI and parallel port Zip
drives which are easily moved. The SCSI model can only connect to
computers with external SCSI ports (relatively few). Zip drives have been
around for a while and you are more likely to find people with them than
the LS-120. Right now, there are a lot of people trying to guess which
one will replace the 3.5" floppy disk as the next standard removable
storage device.
(Who knows, it may even go to the DVD).
My family bought a parallel Zip drive a while back and we all take turns
using it. I use it mostly for backup, but my brother and I have
transferred large amounts of data also. He now has an internal IDE and
loves the speed. You should figure your needs and buy accordingly. For
maximum portability I would recommend the parallel Zip. For personal
use, the IDE Zip.
I have heard of Zip drives as low as $99, but most places have them for
around $150 (after rebate). I must state, however, that I am biased
towards Zip. I have yet to see an LS-120. They seem to be targeting the
business end of things. I welcome comments from a pro LS-120 perspective.
Sorry for the long post.
Kurt Nosack
knosack@novell.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:21:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Barry H. Rodin" <brodin@pica.army.mil>
Subject: Free Tax Software (Tax Mate by Parsons)
"Tax Mate" software made by Parsons Tech (which is now owned by Intuit)
is available for free download from the net at:
www.parsonstech.com
This basically just has Form 1040 and Schedules A, B, and D,
but if someone needs just a few more forms, they can be filled out
by hand.
They would like to sell you some of their other products, such as
their State tax program and/or "Tax Edge" which has more forms,
but this is not necessary.
Barry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:22:02 -0500 (EST)
From: LIRONG@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: Liability Insurance?
Hi, persfiners:
I am interesting in a discussing topic about liability and liability
insurance.
Here are some questions I would like to hear from some experts:
1. What is the diffrence between corporated and incorporated regarding the
liability when you formed a company?
2. What is the maximum liability you or your company may be faced if you
encountered lawsuit or bankruptcy? Is it only based on the total common stock
values your company issued, or the current asset value?
3. What are the type of liability insurance which are common used to prevent
the nightmares regarding your personal, home owner, business and auto, etc.? I
heard about umbrella insurance is the type of liability policy, I guess you
should have to purchase it separately for each kind protection, right?
4. Is there any single umbrella policy we could have to cover the basic
protection including your personal, home, auto and small business?
Thank you for your opinions.
L. Chen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:23:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Robyn Kozierok <robyn@ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Is Auto Excise Tax for Auto Lease Tax Deductible?
Does anyone know if automobile excise tax that I pay to my auto lease
company for my leased car is tax deductible. Also since I don't get
the bill directly, I don't know what portion of the tax is value-based
(hence deductible) and what portion is not. Does anyone here know the
formula for computing auto excise tax in Massachusetts?
TIA,
- --Robyn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:29:03 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chang, Nolan S." <uda0019%cchnl@co.honolulu.hi.us>
Subject: Re: DJIA Composition Change
From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
A random tidbit...
Next week, Dow Jones & Co. is changing the makeup of the DJIA for
the first time since 1991, in possibly the biggest change since 1959.
Entering:
Travelers Group Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Johnson & Johnson
Walmart Stores Inc.
Leaving:
Westinghouse Electric Corp.
Texaco, Inc.
Bethlehem Steel Corp.
Woolworth Corp.
Rich Carreiro
rlcarr@animato.pn.com
- ------------------------------
Question: Is Travelers Group Inc. the same company that sold A.L.
Williams Insurance productions, aka PrimeAmerica? If so it is completely
amazing that a company that had such a bad reputation in the past is now
considered Dow Jones Index Average material.
If anyone has more info about please post it here at PERSFIN...was
approached about selling for them before but had doubts as so their ethics
since I was approached by others when they were still known as A. L.
Williams (a marketing company)
Thanks for the emag Ira...always enjoyable reading
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:30:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Roberta S. Kleinman" <kleinman@mailhost.ais.net>
Subject: "At Risk" Amount in Real Estate Investing?
Could someone please explain to me the significance of the "at risk"
limitation for income tax purposes (IRS Form 6198) in a real estate
investment, and what situations would cause the "at risk" amount to
change?
The tax preparation software I'm using is quite inadequate on that
subject. Here are my questions:
(1) Is it accurate to say that the "at risk" amount changes when, and to
the same degree that, the investor's basis in a property changes?
(2) Does the "at risk" amount change if money is borrowed against the
investor's equity through a mortgage loan? a non recourse loan?
(3) Does claiming normal depreciation on Schedule E reduce the amount "at
risk"?
(4) What other types of situations result in an increase or decrease to the
"at risk" amount for income tax purposes? Thanks in advance to anyone
who can shed some light on this subject.
------------------------------
End of persfin-digest V4 #8
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