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Subject: persfin-digest V4 #43
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:32:21 -0400 (EDT)
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persfin-digest Tuesday, June 3 1997 Volume 04 : Number 043
IN THIS ISSUE:
ADVERTISEMENT: MCI FAX REPLY SERVICE [Oppenheimer Software <Connect-Sale]
Re: Donated computers - Tax Deduction Only for US Entities [colston@viagr]
Re: IRA For Minor [Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>]
Re: Investing for a friend? [kahless@ns.waymark.net]
re: Bank vs us: Banks Do Lousy Job Of Portfolio Management ["rip west" <]
Time Shares? [KroegerD@aol.com]
Re: Bank vs us: Who is in charge? ["L. Chen" <am302@FreeNet.Buffalo.EDU>]
Re: Frank Armstrong Book [mikemore@juno.com (Michael E Morehouse)]
recovering $ from tax overpayments from town [Rich Hoenzsch <otto@csc.alb]
Re: Dow approaches [horton@pasta.enet.dec.com]
investment clubs? ["Sandra Kinney" <kinney@GG.CSC.PEACHNET.EDU>]
Who Should Pay Doctor Bill? [Steven Klein <SKLEIN@snm.org>]
Re: Used Cars [Bob Herlien <bobh@wave.mbari.org>]
Re: Kev's Financial Guide ["David A. Martin" <damartin@volta.mit.edu>]
RE:IRA For Minor [Keith Mealy <kmealy@cincom.com>]
Cheap Prescription Drugs In Mexico [Max_Basch@SMTP.NYNEX.COM]
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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:41:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Oppenheimer Software <Connect-Sales@mcimail.com>
Subject: ADVERTISEMENT: MCI FAX REPLY SERVICE
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:42:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: colston@viagrafix.com (Lloyd Colston)
Subject: Re: Donated computers - Tax Deduction Only for US Entities
Tax deductions are only to US entities. The US gov't (and IRS) don't
support
foreign charities, including Bulgaria. But be nice and help out anyway!
+++
This is true, if the charity is Bulgarian. If the ministry is
USA but is shipping the computers to Bulgaria, you can still deduct from
USA taxes. The church (if it is a church) is not required to be granted
501C3 status, though most churches of any size now have voluntarily done
so.
- --
Lloyd Colston
Pryor, OK USA
Internet business group: http://www.isbc.com
KC5FM Home page http://www.viagrafix.com/colston
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:43:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
Subject: Re: IRA For Minor
>Many people on this list may be at a point where they have an extra
>2,000 they would like to put towards their children. Heck, it may just
>be around Xmas time where a child gets some gift money where it can
>be put aside.
Just remember that IRA contributions have to be made out of earned
income. If the kid has no earned income, he cannot contribute to an
IRA. The actual money that goes into the IRA may well be from a gift,
but the amount of the IRA contribution is limited to the lesser of
$2000 or the kid's earned income for the year.
Rich Carreiro
rlcarr@animato.pn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:46:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: kahless@ns.waymark.net
Subject: Re: Investing for a friend?
>I was telling a friend about the moderately good success I've had investing
>in mutual funds and she asked if I could invest some money for her.
That's the problem with bragging about financial success.
My father taught me to keep my personal finances to myself.
It's simply nobody else's business (with the exception of
spouses and personal accountants).
Ira is right about this being a good way to end a friendship.
Ask yourself what you will do when your investments of her money
do not come out as successful as yours? No matter what she says
now, the thought process will change significantly when the rate of
return is less than expected/promised. What will you do if the
investments you make or recommend lose money? More to the
point, what will she do? What if she expects at least her initial
investment back? How are you going to deal with that?
What if she's upset enough to talk with a lawyer - do you
have a legal fund set aside for this possibility?
Not saying don't do this - just think it through and figure out how
to deal with the possible downsides (all of them). And if you do
decide to go ahead, make sure to talk with a lawyer first about
your legal responsibilities.
Sam
(Editor's Comment - I *would* say don't do this, for what I feel is a more
important reason. You're not doing your friend any favors. Much better
is to teach your friend how to handle her own finances. You're only
encouraging her dependency on you (unless, of course, that's your aim :)).
- -IK)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:47:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "rip west" <rip@montrose.net>
Subject: re: Bank vs us: Banks Do Lousy Job Of Portfolio Management
You said....
<<
Question: Is this common from banks, or other financial institutions? To
manage from the standpoint of their convenience rather than our needs?
>>
>From my viewpoint, as a retired, fee-only financial planner, this is only
too common treatment from banks. I think, in general, they are inflexible
and do a lousey job of managing. My advice to clients was always, if
possible, manage the money yourself, invest in no-load funds for common
stocks or individual bonds for fixed income. To me, bond funds carry a
great deal of risk because of interest rate volatility. This can be
overcome by investing in shorter-term bonds (5 yr or less).
There is no doubt in my mind that you could do a better job than your
present manager and not have to spend too much time on it.
rip
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:48:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: KroegerD@aol.com
Subject: Time Shares?
Does anyone have archives on the past discussions on this "opportunity. In
particular, WestGate Lakes in Orlando.
I'd appreciate any comments on timeshares in general as a value.
Thanks
Dick Kroeger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:50:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "L. Chen" <am302@FreeNet.Buffalo.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bank vs us: Who is in charge?
> - -- There is one account where we all agree that we want to sell of certain
> assets; but Mom, brother, and I want to do it in stages. The bank is
> virtually insisting on doing it all at once.
Are these liquidations being done through the bank's brokerage subsidiary
or affiliates? Or they are getting paid indirectly for these
transactions in any way?
> - -- The bank suddenly has come up with this idea that they only support
> their own in-house mutual funds, and are essentially limiting us from
> buying almost anything else.
> - -- I could tell you much more....
>
> Question: Is this common from banks, or other financial institutions? To
> manage from the standpoint of their convenience rather than our needs?
As you have already guess, NO.
> We may yet transfer the money away from them (though there is the problem
> that one of the accounts is required to stay there for legal reasons).
> Question: Can anyone recommend one or more financial institutions,
> preferably in the New York metro area, where the institution does not play
> power trip games? And does not try to manage your money based on their
Are you looking for assistance from that financial institution in your
investment decisions? If not, why not a discount brokerage firm?
Lily Chen
(Editor's Question - Is there a contractual stipulation that dictates
this? Otherwise, why not complain to your state's Banking Commission, or
consult a lawyer as to the legality of the bank's assertion? -IK)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:55:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: mikemore@juno.com (Michael E Morehouse)
Subject: Re: Frank Armstrong Book
Re: Personal Finance - Anonymous
There is a great book on the Web by Frank Armstrong called "Investment
Strategies for the 21st Century". I don'y know the exact URL: but any
search engine should find it. You can print relevant pages out providing
you don't do it for distribution. Also Vanguard's web site has a
software/book package on "Investing For Retirement" that is just great.
With shipping it is $29.00
It may be worth your while to look into these.
Mike
mikemore@juno.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:55:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rich Hoenzsch <otto@csc.albany.edu>
Subject: recovering $ from tax overpayments from town
greetings:
The following is a problem posted by my co-worker. Can anyone help?
Thanks.
--- Rich
Hi Everyone
I need some advice about a tax problem that my mother-in-law is having.
According to her property deed she owns 1/4 of an acre of land. It was
recently discovered that for the past 30 years she has been paying taxes
equivalent to someone owning 2 acres of land. She lives in a small town
in upstate New York. The town has admitted that they made a mistake.
IS there anything she can do to try to recover some of the money that
she has paid out over the years. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
Julie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:24:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: horton@pasta.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: Dow approaches
>
>Has anyone been doing the "Dow 10 "approach? Or the "Dow 5", or the "Foolish
>four" (as per the Motley fool).
Yes.
I've been using the Dogs of the Dow approach ever since I picked up a
a copy of O'Higgins's book at the bookstore's marked-down table for $2.99.
I've done pretty well, and I've added a wrinkle: use DRIPs to keep
transaction costs low.
- -Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:25:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Sandra Kinney" <kinney@GG.CSC.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject: investment clubs?
Has anyone had any experience or advice on investment clubs? Several
friends of mine were thinking of starting one. We just sent out for
the NAIC guides. What are the drawbacks? What are the advantages?
Most of us usually 'waste' $30 to $50 per month and thought that the
investment club would be a good way to use that extra money. If
anyone has any answers, suggestions, or comments, please let me know.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:26:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Klein <SKLEIN@snm.org>
Subject: Who Should Pay Doctor Bill?
Question:
Who should pay Doctor bill?
Here is problem: My 4 year old is enrolled in a state liscensed preschool
program. The other day he got his finger stuck in a bathroom door at
school (ouch!). The school director suggested we take him to see a
doctor (because of bad bruise), which I did. The school which has
insurance told me to pay the doctor and I would get reimbursed for my
for all money that I had to lay out. Since I went to a PPO provider my only
expense was $20. I feel the school should pay the whole doctor
expense and I should not even have to file with my insurance carrier.
Should I stop the insurance process and have the school deal with the
whole bill (which is $70.00 including the copay) or should I just have the
school pay the $20.00 copay?
Any opinions?
Steve K.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:27:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bob Herlien <bobh@wave.mbari.org>
Subject: Re: Used Cars
There recently was an article titled "Kev's Rules of Thumb", which had
some good financial advice. I heartily agree with most of it. But I
wanted to comment on the following:
> 7. Always buy a used car (Used is three or more years old). Cars
> depreciate at the maximum rate during the first three years. Car leases
> are to be avoided by most individuals.
I used to think this way too. It used to be true. And perhaps it still
is true in some or most parts of the country. But around here (CA), it
isn't true. I suspect that's the case in other parts of the country too.
I'd suggest you check out both methods of car buying before making a
decision.
My rule of thumb is that a car has an economic life of 10 years. You can
still drive it past that time (my car is an '85), but then you're putting
your money into maintenance rather than capital cost of the car. Therefore,
I want a used car discounted by at least (age * 10%) before I consider it
equivalent to the value of a new car. For decent used cars around here,
that doesn't happen. Your mileage may vary.
True story. We bought my wife a new '92 Honda Accord LX (in '92) for
$14,900. It was a good price -- we know how to bargain. It now has
60,000 miles on it. By great coincidence, a couple of months ago a
good friend of ours bought a used '92 Honda Accord LX with 60,000 miles,
for $12,000. When I heard that, it made me want to sell ours. I'd
jump at the chance to use a new car for 5 years for a total price of $2900.
So, who do you think got a better value for their money? (BTW, our friend's
purchase price wasn't out of line with prices for used Hondas around here).
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Herlien "If we knew what we were doing, it would
bobh@mbari.org not be called research, would it?"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:28:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David A. Martin" <damartin@volta.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Kev's Financial Guide
Mark Coulter mentions:
>6. Forget expensive, non-productive hobbies like boating or racing unless
> your income exceeds 70-80K.
As a sailor, I would like to point out that boating does not
need to be an expensive hobby. I own a catamaran which cost $800
used. It costs about $200/yr for ropes, life jackets, and so on, plus
about $500/yr for dues at the club where I keep it. Altogether, not
much money for a lot of fun.
And quite often, one can crew on a racing sailboat for a day
for free.
-David Martin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:29:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Keith Mealy <kmealy@cincom.com>
Subject: RE:IRA For Minor
Paul Landsberg <paws@vlsi.columbia.edu> wrote:
Hi Ira, I was cleaning out the mailbox and came across the issue
where I posted about putting money into an IRA for a minor.
I'm not sure I was clear in what I was looking for, as I perceived
from the editor's comment.
Many people on this list may be at a point where they have an extra
2,000 they would like to put towards their children. Heck, it may just
be around Xmas time where a child gets some gift money where it can
be put aside. Now if college is funded (I know of quite a few people
who feel that college costs should be funded out of current income
at the time the child is in college), consider the tremendous
compounding that 2K$ (I wasn't talking yearly or regular investments)
that would occur if an IRA is started. However, I do realize that
similar results could be had if someone contributes to a fund like
the 20th Century Giftrust with a "expiration date" 50 years into
the future.
Later!
Paul
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When I tried to get IRA's for my children (less than 18, but
still with their own money), I was told by several places that a minor
cannot own a securities account, nor could an IRA be held in a custodial
account. For this reason, they put their money into a Bank CD that
would expire shortly after their 18th birthdays, when the money
was moved to a mutual fund under their own names.
However, it's my understanding that an IRA must be funded by earned income,
(e.g., wages), not gifts, dividends nor capital gains.
Keith Mealy kmealy@cincom.com
Cincinnati, OH http://www.cincom.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:30:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Max_Basch@SMTP.NYNEX.COM
Subject: Cheap Prescription Drugs In Mexico
From: Max Basch on 06-02-97 03:04 PM
There is much debate about cheaper access to medicine and medication in
other countries.
All the people that benefit from the existing American system, form doctors
to pharmacists to drug producers cry foul, when anybody is trying to limit
what they perceive their unwavering right to exploit the existing medical
care system.
There is no question that the United States is the only major industrial
country where medical care is not available to all its citizens and where
any major disease, because of the deductibles, "usual and customary"
coverage by the insurance, and the insistence of the providers, doctors and
hospitals, that they do not provide usual and customary care, puts the
patient in bankruptcy.
The problem with the "free market" in the medical field is that there is no
free market. A patient cannot go and negotiate a "new kidney" for $20,000,
or get a discount for a used one, or shop around continuously for new
doctors that might cover deductibles, while slowly slowly is bled to death
by the practitioners of the systems.
Aiding in the process are the stand by viewers who watch the system
destroying anybody who is sick and hope that they will never be in need,
and as such what do they care, as far as they are concerned, die sucker
die, you will be better off.
When their turn comes they cry and swear that the system sucks, but it is
usually too late.
Less expensive medications in other countries like Mexico is just an
example of the trade.
Most doctors, pharmacists and people that have a financial interest in the
drug companies will tell you how you should not use such avenues even if it
is for a prescription that you know that is OK and it is a brand name. It
is hard to see how anybody will benefit from such advise with the exception
of the ones that give such advises.
There is a contradiction in terms between the medical profession, and the
business of medicine. The first tries to cure the patient as soon as
possible with minimum cost, while the business of medicine tries to
maximize profits out of every patient (hey business is business).
The drug companies do not need to recover the costs in US alone, they
choose to do that because they can overcharge at home, because they still
have a hold via the lobbying groups, and because there are still a large
segment of population that the drug companies convince that they are
entitled to whatever profits that can get. If the old people in Medicare
die because they cannot purchase such medication, it is the government's
faults, but make sure that the government does not get involved. When they
will not have such an audience they will reduce their overhead, their
marketing and lobbying costs (three times the costs of R&D) and still get
nice profits.
By now you understand that I do not believe that human life should be a
profit center, and as such if you share this view you should contact your
elected representative.
If you still believe in the free medical market go and argue with your
doctor, hospital provider, pharmacist and tell them that their prices are
outrageous, see how far will that go...
This was a long and passionate message, so I will do it once every quarter
at most.
------------------------------
End of persfin-digest V4 #43
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