persfin-digest V4 #46


From: persfin-digest <owner-persfin-digest@shore.net>
Subject: persfin-digest V4 #46
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:44:24 -0400 (EDT)


Articles sorted by: [Date] [Author] [Subject]


persfin-digest        Wednesday, June 11 1997        Volume 04 : Number 046



IN THIS ISSUE:

  ADVERTISEMENT:  domainTNG  [Oppenheimer Software <Connect-Sales@mcimail.co]
  Re: Health Insurance in New York?   ["L. Chen" <am302@FreeNet.Buffalo.EDU>]
  Re:  Real Estate In Atlanta     [Randy Barnes <rbarnes@atl.mindspring.com>]
  Re: Excess Pension Distribution?         [David Meyers <dmeyers@panix.com>]
  Re: Free e-mail?                         [David Meyers <dmeyers@panix.com>]
  Re: Another IRA Question            [Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>]
  Re: IRA question                    [Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>]
  Re: Excess Pension Distribution?    [Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>]
  Re: Trading Increment Changes, DJIA      [David Meyers <dmeyers@panix.com>]
  Re: IRA, Sch C Questions           ["David C. Baker" <ee03647@goodnet.com>]
  Writer for National Business Magazine Looking For People  [The Editor <ikr]
  Re: Excess Pension Distribution  ["Lester M. Levy, MD" <llevy@hoflink.com>]
  Re: IRA question                 ["Lester M. Levy, MD" <llevy@hoflink.com>]
  Commercial Mortgage Financing Sources & Information  [spencer@datamerge.co]
  RE: Nursing Home Insurance     ["Cal Lester   C.L.U." <Cal_Lester@msn.com>]
  Re: Excess Pension Distribution?     ["Steven M. Foulks" <sfoulks@nmu.edu>]
  Re: Dual State Tax question           [Avrum Lapin <avrum113@cyberg8t.com>]

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:55:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Oppenheimer Software <Connect-Sales@mcimail.com>
Subject: ADVERTISEMENT:  domainTNG

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:56:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "L. Chen" <am302@FreeNet.Buffalo.EDU>
Subject: Re: Health Insurance in New York? 

> My son, age 23, has recently graduated from college and plans to take up
> residence in NYC.  I'd like to find a reliable and reasonable HMO provider
> for him, and know nothing about what's available in New York.  Any
> suggestions??
Sender: owner-persfin-mod@shore.net
Precedence: bulk

Oxford is one of the HMOs in NY.  You can get a list of all insurance 
companies that offers medical insurance in NY -- from the State Insurance 
Commission.

Lily Chen
am302@freenet.buffalo.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:56:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randy Barnes <rbarnes@atl.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re:  Real Estate In Atlanta

Tony - 

You better get in touch with GaREIA. (GA Real Estate Investors
Association).  Atlanta has the biggest group in the country and you
should never invest in real estate without being a member of this
organization.  They have more resources than you'll ever develop on your
own. 

THere's a monthly general meeting the second monday of each month and
many "sub-groups" meet at other times. THe office hours are from 2:00pm
to 7:00 and is located at the top of the Perimeter. Call them at (404)
451-8800

Good Luck.

Rnady Barnes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:57:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Meyers <dmeyers@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Excess Pension Distribution?

>From: RHEALEY@CENTER.COLGATE.EDU

>WHAT?! How can they tax "excess" pension? No one knows with certainty when 
>they will die. This is ridiculous. What's "too large an accumulation?" Who 
>determines it? What's this 15% excess pension distribution penalty? More 
>info please....

[reasonably good explanation by our esteemed editor]

The rationale of the "excess" pension tax is the same
as the stupidity of having a $2000 limit on IRA
contributions.  If we allow people to save more of
their money and defer more of their taxes, we cut
down on taxes that Uncle Sam can collect _now_.
(Regardless of the intelligence of encouraging the
population to prepare for their retirements.)  Both
the "excess" tax and the $2k limit are amongst the
most absurd things going, and we should all be
complaining to our representatives about this.

At a minimum, the IRA limit ought to be the same
as the 401k limit of (currently, and indexed for
inflation) $9500.  Saving only $2000 per year
means saving for a _very_ long time if we are to
have any hope of taking care of ourselves in
our retirements.  Then again, if we take care of
ourselves, then the government's expansion and
paternalism are harder to justify.

- --D

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:58:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Meyers <dmeyers@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Free e-mail?

>From: "Gary M. Oppenheimer" <0002180241@mcimail.com>
>
>  In the category of "there is no such thing as a free lunch", its not
>surprising that Juno went to toll numbers.  Its still a free e-mail
>service... only now, you are paying the phone companies to get to it.

_Somebody_ has to pay the phone company (unless the phone
companies started giving service away for free and nobody
told me!).  Previously, Juno paid for both the e-mail
service _and_ the phone access for its users (apparently
out of advertising revenues).  Phone calls are _expensive_,
so it is not surprising that if they want to keep the
e-mail service free (paid for by advertisers), they want
you to pay for the call (at least in the cases of folks
who don't live local to an access point).

>  If your e-mail needs are modest, you should consider MCI Mail (which we
>advertise in Persfin).  For $15/month, you send up to 50 either e-mail
>messages of about 2 pages each 1 page domestic faxes, receive an unlimited
>amount of e-mail, and do it via a single nationwide toll free 800 number.
>That means that if you travel a lot, there is no trying to figure out the
>local access number, or paying a surcharge for 800 access.

That's not too bad a deal.  Of course, if you are not travelling
a lot, and most of your access is going to be from the same
place, there are _lots_ of internet service providers and most
people have one a free/local call away.  And most now have pricing
in the range of $20/month - giving folks not only e-mail, but usenet
and web access, as well as the freedom to use any of the many
excellent software packages for these services that they like.

The ability to use the fax service, however, looks like it might
be a pretty useful feature, though.  I'd love to see a new
service where you can both send and _recieve_ faxes via
the net.  (ie. someone sends a fax to a fax number and a
fax service recieves it, packs it up as a jpeg or gif
and e-mails it to you.  Then you just read it in, say, 
Netscape or your mail program, like maybe Eudora, saves it
as an attachment and you view it in any graphics program
on your computer.)  (And, of course, the system should
work in reverse - you should be able to send e-mail to
a fax number, but that's not as essential, given that
most modems already can send directly to faxes).

- --D

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:58:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
Subject: Re: Another IRA Question

>If we make a non-deductible IRA contribution for a non-working spouse ($250
>for 1996), is this reflected on the working spouse's 8606? Do we file a
>separate 8606 for the non-working spouse? Or does it not get reported?

Yes, you should file an 8606 for that contribution.  There's no such
thing as a joint IRA, so contributions have to be individually
accounted for.  And so any IRA that receives any non-ded contributions
in a given year must have a Form 8606 filed for it.

If you do not report it you are theoretically liable for a $50 file
for failing to file an 8606 when required and that $250 non-ded
contribution will be taxed when it's ultimately pulled out.  By
documenting it as non-ded, it will not be taxed on withdrawal.

Rich Carreiro
rlcarr@animato.pn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:59:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
Subject: Re: IRA question

>I file jointly. My wife does not work.
>My income is greater than 50K.
>I was eligible for (and contributed to) a 403b for the first six months of
>1996.

Then you are both "tainted" and are subject to the income test for the
deductibility of the IRA contribution.  All that matters is that you
participated in the plan for at least 1 day in the tax year, which you
did.

>Due to a change of employment, I was ineligible for any retirement plan for
>the second six months of 1996.

This is irrelevant, see above.

>Question: what is the total deductible and non-deductible IRA that I and my
>wife are eligible to contribute for 1996?

Well, the total possible contribution is $2250, split between your IRA
and your wife's however you please as long as no one gets over $2000 in
theirs.

And since your modified AGI is over $50K, none of this is deductible -- all
of it is non-deductible.

For more details, see IRS Pub 590.

Rich Carreiro
rlcarr@animato.pn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
Subject: Re: Excess Pension Distribution?

>(Editor's Comment (not a tax expert) - If you withdraw in any one year,
>either:
>$750,000 for lump sumps qualifying for averaging; or
>$150,000 for IRA distributions plus all other qualified pension, profit
>sharing, stock bonus, annuity plans, or annuities,
>
>there is an excise tax (not in effect until 2000) of 15% of the excess.
>This is over and above the income taxes due on the distributions.  These
>still apply even during the waiver period. Cheers, and consult a tax
>expert experienced in navigating these murky waters. -IK)

I believe that the "$150,000" is actually more like $160,000 right now
(it indexes for CPI each year, as does the $750,000).

There's yet another tax on this stuff -- the "excess accumulations tax."
It is computed thusly:
   * On the day you die, compute what your life expectancy is.  This
     sounds oxymoronic, but what it means is to go to the IRS life
     expectancy tables and look up the life expectancy for somone
     who's the age you are when you die.  Call this N years.
   * Check IRS pubs and see what the $160,000 has indexed up to as
     the year of your death.  Call this $P.
   * Check IRS pubs and see what the applicable interest rate is
     for this calculation.  I believe it is currently around 8%.
     Call this R.
   * Now compute the net present value of N annual payments of $P,
     assuming a discount rate of R.  Or another way of looking at it -- 
     compute the required single premium for an annuity that would pay
     $P annually for N years given a rate of return R inside the annuity.
     In either case, call this value $V.
   * Add up the value of all your IRAs and qualified plans.  Call this $T.
   * The "excess accumulations tax" is 15% of (T-V) if (T-V)>0, $0 otherwise.

Unlike the excess distribution tax, this tax is NOT on hold for
1997-1999, but continues in full force.

Rich Carreiro
rlcarr@animato.pn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:01:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Meyers <dmeyers@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Trading Increment Changes, DJIA

>From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
>
>The NYSE surprised the investment world by endorsing a changeover
>to decimal pricing and $0.01 trading increments.  The Big Board says

They did not say $0.01 increments.  They did mention another 
exchange which uses decimals, but has minimum $0.05 (ie. 1/20)
increments - still a finer increment than 1/8 or 1/16, but
not quite the same thing.

>In the meantime, the NYSE has joined AMEX and NASDAQ/NMS in switching
>to a 1/16 increment.

>(Editor's Comment - I've seen some NASDAQ quotes in 1/32 increments. -IK)

Bonds, too, of course.

Of course, personally, I figure that if they really want to
use non-fractions, then just switch to hexadecimal.

Then we just translate the recent quote of Home Depot at 64-3/4
into the much more sensible 40.C

Heh.
- --D

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:31:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David C. Baker" <ee03647@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: IRA, Sch C Questions

> After filing an extension, I have finally gotten around to filling out the
> 1040. It is after midnight and I am bleary-eyed. An IRA question that I
> thought that I had resolved earlier during this year's tax planning has
> now come up.
> 
> I file jointly. My wife does not work.
> 
> My income is greater than 50K.
> 
> I was eligible for (and contributed to) a 403b for the first six months
of
> 1996.
> 
> Due to a change of employment, I was ineligible for any retirement plan
for
> the second six months of 1996.
> 
> Question: what is the total deductible and non-deductible IRA that I and
my
> wife are eligible to contribute for 1996?

You were elligible to contribute up to a total of $2250 for your IRA and
your spouse's IRA.  The cutoff for 1996 contributions was April 15, 1997.  

None of the contributions would have been deductible, since you were
covered by a qualified retirement plan for some portion of the year. (the
box on your W2 was probably checked, indicating this coverage). 

The maximum you could have contributed to either your or your spouse's IRA
is $2000.
(you could have contributed any combination that added up to a total of
$2250, with neither one being over $2000)

For 1997 contributions, the contribution amount for spousal IRA's goes from
$250 to $2000, so you could contibute up to a combined total of $4000.  

> 
> P.S. May I take advantage of this forum to ask a minor tax form question:
> what is supposed to be entered in Schedule C in Box B (principal business
> code)?

You can get these codes in the instructions for form 1040 (page 66).  It is
available for download at:

ftp://ftp.fedworld.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040.pdf

You will need an Adobe Acrobat reader, which is available free by download
at the Adobe website:

http://www.adobe.com/

Hope this helps.  

- --Dave Baker, CPA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:32:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Editor <ikrakow@shore.net>
Subject: Writer for National Business Magazine Looking For People

Jean Chatzky, a senior writer for a national business magazine, is looking to
talk to people about why they have (sometimes) held onto underperforming
mutual funds.  She's interested in what makes people hang in there and why
they eventually decide to (or not to) let go.  If you have had this
experience, please e-mail her at JChatzky@hearst.com and include a phone
number so that she can follow up.  She'll happily provide additional
credentials upon request.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:34:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lester M. Levy, MD" <llevy@hoflink.com>
Subject: Re: Excess Pension Distribution

Enacted with the Tax Reform Act of 1986, under section 4980A (originally
4891A) were two 15 percent excise taxes.

 1) An excess distribution excise tax levied on annual distributions
above an indexed threshold ($160,000 for 1997) or five times that for
lump sum distributions (suspended until Jan 1, 2000 under the Small
Business and Jobs Protection Act of 1996), and 

 2) an excess accumulation excise tax on the total in ALL qualified
retirement plans AND IRA's remaining after death which exceeeds the
present value of an annuity paying the threshold amount (indexed..
$160,000 for 1997) for the life expectancy based on age at time of death
of the original holder at an interest rate (the Federal intermediate
term rate) in effect at the time of death. NOT suspended and in effect.
Between income, estate and excise taxes this amounts to something of the
the order of 80 percent of the assets over the threshold.

Lester M. Levy, MD
llevy@hoflink.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:35:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lester M. Levy, MD" <llevy@hoflink.com>
Subject: Re: IRA question

Having contributed to a qualified plan in 1996, and if your adjusted
gross income is greater than $50,000 (married), your ability to
contribute deductible money to an IRA is nil, nada, zero. Less than
$40,000 (married), you would have $2250 to divide as you wish between
your IRA and your wife's. Between $40,000 and $50,000, there is a
worksheet in the instructions for form 1040 to fill out. You can
contribute upto $2250 (divided as you wish) as non-deductible amounts,
and must file a form 8606 for each of you, and for each year you make a
non-deductible contribution, and for each year you make a withdrawal.

You need to keep only the last 8606 you submitted. For 1997, the amount
goes up to $4000 from $2250.

The business code is listed in the instructions for schedule C, and will
depend upon the kind of business you are in.


Ken Stone <kstone@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote on 9 Jun 1997 

<<I file jointly. My wife does not work. My income is greater than 50K.

I was eligible for (and contributed to) a 403b for the first six months
of 1996.

Due to a change of employment, I was ineligible for any retirement plan
for the second six months of 1996.

Question: what is the total deductible and non-deductible IRA that I and
my wife are eligible to contribute for 1996?

P.S. May I take advantage of this forum to ask a minor tax form
question:
what is supposed to be entered in Schedule C in Box B (principal
business
code)?>>


- -- 
          -Lester M. Levy, MD     llevy@hoflink.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:38:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: spencer@datamerge.com (Spencer Kluesner)
Subject: Commercial Mortgage Financing Sources & Information

Hello,

Our new commercial mortgage financing page is now up
at http://www.datamerge.com/fin_prod/deals/closedeals.html

This page is for those of you interested in:

* Learning the ins and outs of obtaining financing for commercial properties, 
* Entering the field of commercial mortgage consulting services.


I hope you like it.
Spencer
Spencer@datamerge.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:39:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Cal Lester   C.L.U." <Cal_Lester@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Nursing Home Insurance

Nursing home insurance must be actuarially sound.  Therefore, getting it or
not is a toss-up.  I prefer not to get it.  Why pay the insurance company
for being the middle agent?  If you can select against the insurance
company, go ahead and get it.


Richard A. Bauer ---- St Louis MO
www.netguard.net/~owowo/index.htm

>>>>	Nursing Home ( or preferably Long Term Care ) Insurance is VERY 
actuarially sound. The premium depending on age can vary from $500 per year to 
$500 per month. However, if you are confined to a Nursing Home or require 
extended Home Care, you are looking at ( currently ) in the neighborhood of 
$3,000 per month as an expense. If you happen to have a few bucks, it can get 
eaten up very quickly. If BOTH of you require Long Term Care in any form, you 
are looking at Multi thousands of dollars in costs.

The reason why people pay an insurance company any money at all, is to insure 
against " A  loss that would be too great to be borne by one alone ". It is 
simply a method of spreading the risk. As to your last comment, I would 
suggest that it might be very difficult to "select against the company". 

However, if your family history is one of prolonged illnesses, and YOU are 
aware of it, then that might be one way of selecting against the company.
Please keep in mind that many companies offer a "Return of Premium" rider, 
that will return some or in some case almost ALL of the premiums paid in, less 
any claims paid, after the policy has been in force for 10 years, or upon 
Death. Alternately, if BOTH Spouses are insured at the same time, when one 
dies, the survivors policy is FULLY paid up after 10 years. Therefore even if 
you were paying as much as $5,000 a year in premium, after you have paid in 
$50,000, if you are still alive, you can get most or all of it back, or if you 
die, your heirs would get it back, or your Spouse would be insured for her 
life.

Cal Lester  CLU

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:40:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steven M. Foulks" <sfoulks@nmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Excess Pension Distribution?

>(Editor's Comment (not a tax expert) - If you withdraw in any one year,
>either:
>$750,000 for lump sumps qualifying for averaging; or
>$150,000 for IRA distributions plus all other qualified pension, profit
>sharing, stock bonus, annuity plans, or annuities,

I am not sure what Ira mean by annuity plans and annuities, but they must
be related to "tax sheltered retirement" plans as defined in the code.
They don't include your classic life insurance annuity distributions, for
example.

>there is an excise tax (not in effect until 2000) of 15% of the excess.
>This is over and above the income taxes due on the distributions.  These
>still apply even during the waiver period. Cheers, and consult a tax
>expert experienced in navigating these murky waters. -IK)

The excess accumulation penalty is a function of your age and is rather
complex, and beyond the scope of what can be done here.

Regarding Rashea's comments about the unfairness of these provisions - who
could argue with him?  As I tell my students,  taxation is limited to the
imagination of the tax collectors and the wealth of the citizenry.  With
the impending failure of social security early next century, you will
penalized if you save too little for retirement, and with these provisions,
if you save too much on a tax sheltered basis!!

However it is possible to supplement optimal tax sheltered savings subject
to the above penalties with tax sheltered savings that aren't subject to
these penalties (e.g., investments that appreciate in value, tax exempt
bonds), and other savings.  Although I am not happy about these changes
personally, they don't represent a disaster if you are plan for them.


Steven M. Foulks, CPA, CFP, PhD
Professor of Accounting & Finance
Northern Michigan University
www.nmu.edu/instruct/business/sfoulks/sfoulks.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:41:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Avrum Lapin <avrum113@cyberg8t.com>
Subject: Re: Dual State Tax question

As a California resident with occasional earned income from Arizona I can
tell you that California residents are taxed by California on all income
earned anywhere. California allows a credit for taxes paid to certain
states (not Arizona).  Each pair of states is somewhat unique.  For more
information  see California Publication 913 - Schedule S Other State Tax
credit. available from 1-800-338-0505 or http://www.ftb.ca.gov or the
Franchise Tax Board,  PO Box 307 Rancho Cordova CA 95741-0307.

Note that most states consider you a tax resident if you earn income in
that tsate. You can be a tax resident of more than one state - ask any
professional athlete or touring rock star. The rules are different in each
state.

Quoting from the California Resident Income Tax Return page 15:
The filing status for California must be the same filing status for the
federal taxes unless one of the spouses
a) is an active  member of the armed forces....
b) a non resident for the entire year with no California income.

It is almost always better to file married filing joint than married filing
separately.

Do not buy a house unless you plan to keep it for more than 3 years. The
costs associated with buying an selling a house are about 10%.and so the
house value must appreciate 10% to break even.

Without knowing the special circumstances of your family I assume that at
some point you hope that you and your wife will live under the same roof.
At that time if your wife will be working you may want to locate your
residence mid way between the the places of employment -

If you insist on buying a house I suggest that you get both the CA forms
and the KS and set up a straw man and work out both cases.

If your wife is a student or has a KS salary much less than your CA salary
you might want to consider filing jointly as in CA (even though CA taxes
are higher than KS taxes) and then file jointly as non residents in KS.
You need to read the requirements of being non resident in KS.

Disclaimer; Not a tax expert. This advice is worth what you paid forit.

Avrum Lapin
Upland, CA

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End of persfin-digest V4 #46
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