Go to Jeff Salisbury LWGate Home Page.From: persfin-digest <owner-persfin-digest@shore.net>
Subject: persfin-digest V4 #71
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:27:56 -0400 (EDT)
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persfin-digest Saturday, August 9 1997 Volume 04 : Number 071
IN THIS ISSUE:
ADVERTISEMENT: domainTNG [Oppenheimer Software <Connect-Sales@mcimail.co]
Limit Order Strategy? [The Editor <ikrakow@shore.net>]
Re: If Too Many People Bought Index Funds, The System Would Collapse [Pau]
Homesteading? [broadhur@annex.com]
buying from son's business? [Ryo Imamura <imamura@elwha.evergreen.edu>]
Question on Mortgage Down Payment ["David J. Churchill" <churchilld@world]
Re: Role of government [David Martin <dmartin@seabreeze.hc.ti.com>]
Re: Common Law Spouse Dies Without a Will, Creating Messy Estate ["Lester]
re: Attorney at closing/along the way [Ken Stone <kstone@pantheon.YALE.E]
Re: Living Trusts and Estate Tax Planning ["Mark J. Welch, Esq." <markwel]
Re: Common Law Spouse Dies Without a Will, Creating Messy Estate ["Mark J]
Borrowing to Pay for Daughter's Education? [APRESTON@server.vcccd.cc.ca.u]
Re: Driving across country, AI fraud prevention [jamester <jamester@alumn]
re: The Role of Government ["Ken Meinken" <kmeinken@one.net>]
Re: It's Better Not To Use the Roth IRA [Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn]
Re: It's Better Not To Use the Roth IRA ["L. Chen" <am302@FreeNet.Buffalo]
If Too Many People Bought Index Funds, The System Would Collapse ??? [Ge]
How Many Times is Sales Tax Due on a Car? [BOB FORD <BOB_FORD@compuserve.]
cars-consumer's report [taliadg@juno.com (talia D. Goeke)]
Can Grad Students Live High Off the Hog? [palace@asde.com]
Re: Living Trusts ["Cal Lester C.L.U." <Cal_Lester@msn.com>]
car broker? [taliadg@juno.com (talia D. Goeke)]
The Role of Government [Susan Mangiero <mangiero@shu.sacredheart.edu>]
Re: Home Purchase Question [BOB FORD <BOB_FORD@compuserve.com>]
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Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:08:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Oppenheimer Software <Connect-Sales@mcimail.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:12:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Editor <ikrakow@shore.net>
Subject: Limit Order Strategy?
I've been thinking about using a limit order strategy to avoid being
victimized by bid-ask spreads when buying and selling stocks. Say you
want to buy a stock with a bid of 8 1/2 and an ask of 8 3/4. Why not
place a limit order at 8 1/2 (or even a bit lower, say gambling that there
will be a bit of selling action, try 8 3/8) to buy. You can use the same
strategy to place a limit order to sell at 8 3/4 (or 8 7/8, etc.). Of
course, there's always the risk that the order will never be executed, but
that's the breaks. At least you won't have to worry about the spread; you
have more control over the price.
You can now place limit orders on NASDAQ and OTC stocks. That's a
fairly recent development.
Any thoughts?
Ira
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:13:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Landsberg <paws@vlsi.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: If Too Many People Bought Index Funds, The System Would Collapse
So what is the difference in the following statements:
If Too Many People Bought IPO Stocks, The System Would Collapse
If Too Many People Bought Growth Stocks, The System Would Collapse
If Too Many People Bought IBM, The System Would Collapse
The point I am trying to make is that the statement "if too many
people bought......" is simply a statement that there is blind demand
for a given ? product ? Whether that product is tulips, index funds,
or IPO stocks, I am not sure if there is a difference.
But this does lead to a larger question:
If Too Many People Bought Stocks Will The System Would Collapse?
Let's go back to demographics and the potential future of retirement
in the United States. We have had it drilled into us without reprieve
that Social Security is going bust. Therefore, wage earners who plan
ahead are flocking in droves to stocks since they are touted, again
without reprieve, as the investment vehicle withe the best rate of
return over 10 year periods (lots of other touts available but I
chose a simplistic one. So, are we simply in a period where a tremendous
demographic wave, along with persuasive arguments about the future of
retirement, have driven tidal waves of money into stocks. In short,
has supply and demand been disconnected? If they are disconnected,
what are trigger events that will begin to connect them again, other
than the demographic wave subsiding in roughly 15 to 20 years.
Paul Landsberg
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:13:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: broadhur@annex.com
Subject: Homesteading?
Hello all,
I recently purchased a house in Southern California and have received
several mailings from firms that, for a $40 service fee, offer to
"homestead" my property for me.
I was hoping somebody, perhaps Bob Ford, could enlighten me as to what
homesteading does for the property owner (doesn't it protect your home
from legal judgements,etc?). Also, how does a do-it-yourselfer go about
homesteading on his own without help from these outside firms?
Thanks, in advance, for any help.
Mike Broadhurst
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:14:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ryo Imamura <imamura@elwha.evergreen.edu>
Subject: buying from son's business?
My son owns his own small computer business. I want to buy a scanner and
hard drive through him. He offered to sell them to me at the wholesale
price or even lower. Guess he feels he owes me a few favors. What are
the rules about pricing governing such intrafamily sales? What about
sales tax? Can he claim it as a business expense or as his office
equipment since we live in the same house and his office is in a wing of
my house? Thanks for any advice.
Ryo Imamura
imamura@elwha.evergreen.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David J. Churchill" <churchilld@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Question on Mortgage Down Payment
If you think you can earn more (expressed as an annual percentage return
on your investment) from investing part of the down payment than the
annual percentage rate on the mortgage, then I would minimize my down
payment.
> From: amy kennedy <akennedy@connix.com>
> Subject: VA Mortgage Question
>
> Using VA to purchase home. Should we put down some cash ($10,000)or is
> it more advantageous tax-wise to have a bigger mortgage and use the cash
> to make the monthly payment? Anyone out there who can provide any tips
> on the VA process? House is $190,000. Income $80,000. Thank you. Amy
> Kennedy
> akennedy@connix.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:15:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Martin <dmartin@seabreeze.hc.ti.com>
Subject: Re: Role of government
Mark writes:
> David writes:
>
>> The government's main and only job _should_ be to protect my
>> life and my property.
>I think the government's job is to do everything that benefits society
>collectively but doesn't seem to benefit us individually. To explain I
>will point out the Prisoner's Dilemma. A basic dilemma goes like this.
This is one of those issues that involves your fundamental
beliefs about government and society. It usually boils down to either
"Government has the power to do a lot of good, so it should help out
as much as possible" or "Government has the power to do a lot of bad,
so it should help out as little as possible". When I was in high
school, I was in the first camp. During college, I moved to the second
camp, and every year, the political and economic events that I observe
convince me that I am correct. (I am, however, still open to logical,
fact based arguments on the issue if anyone wants to change my mind.)
I don't want to overwhelm persfin-digest with a big discussion
of the issue.
Of course, in the real world, most politicians couldn't care
less what the proper role of government is; they'll just say or do
whatver is necessary to be re-elected.
-David Martin
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:15:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lester M. Levy, MD" <llevy@hoflink.com>
Subject: Re: Common Law Spouse Dies Without a Will, Creating Messy Estate
in persfin-digest V4 #70, colston@viagrafix.com (Lloyd Colston) wrote:
<< So, there you have my two cents. Add 73 more cents and go buy
you a decent cup of coffee. :)>>
That's six bits, not quite a full byte, but apparently will do for a
drink. :->
- --
-Lester M. Levy, MD llevy@hoflink.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:16:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Stone <kstone@pantheon.YALE.EDU>
Subject: re: Attorney at closing/along the way
> From: George Kolb <GCKOLB@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU>
> Subject: Attorney at closing/along the way?
>
> My wife and I are looking into buying a house and wondered if an attorney
> is necessary during the process and/or at closing? I realize this may be
> the _preferred_ route, but I'd like to hear from people who decided to
> "go it alone," and what their feelings were on the process.
George,
I have done it 'both ways' so I can give you a personal perspective.
First and foremost, if you live in a area where real estate transactions
are always conducted by lawyers then you do not have much of a choice. Even
if you do not _need_ one, if the other party has one then common sense
would probably compell you to get one, too.
If it is a routine and simple transaction of a primary home and if there
are no contested issues between the parties, then I would not necessarily
use a lawyer. I purchased my first home this way and everything went fine.
Your real estate agent and your mortgage lender's attorney will make sure
that the usual issues are addressed. The closing takes place at a title
company's office in the presence of the real estate agent(s).
However, when I sold that home, we had the proverbial 'buyers from hell'
and an attorney was absolutely needed.
I am currently in the process of buying my second home. The local custom is
to use a lawyer so I am. However, the process would not be any different
without one because the transaction has been amicable.
> I'm the type of person who will actually read all the small print when I
> sign something, read all the "change in terms" notices whenever a credit
> card sends them out, etc., so I wanted to know if the new house process
> is *so* complex that it's nearly unheard of to do it without an attorney.
The problem here is that the fine print is subject to interpretation. You
need to know how things are interpreted by the experts in the field and
what are the expectations and conventions of the process. You cannot know
this just by reading the documents.
> What are some of the most important pitfalls to this alternative?
If you unexepctedly,arrive at a situation where you need a lawyer, it may
be too late to make use of one. You also may unknowingly forfeit rights
that you never knew that you had.
Good luck,
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:16:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mark J. Welch, Esq." <markwelch@ca-probate.com>
Subject: Re: Living Trusts and Estate Tax Planning
I wrote:
> Second, the article praises the tax benefits
> of living trusts, but neglects to note that
> ANY TAX BENEFIT IN A LIVING TRUST can also be
> accomplished with a will.
Randy Barnes wrote:
> I find this very interesting as I've been considering the establishment
> of a living trust and believed that this was the only way to double the
> tax exemption. How does one do this without the living trust? Do you
> simply provide for the spouse to disclaim the estate into a bypass trust
> in the will? Help, and thanks for the great input.
That's one way to do it. The estate tax planning involves creating a
bypass trust at the first death, which can be done with a living trust
or a Will. There are some reasons why a living trust may be
preferable (since it avoids probate also), but this is something to
discuss with your attorney while looking at YOUR specific situation.
- -- Mark J. Welch (510) 462-8483 http://www.ca-probate.com/
- -- Web Site Banner Ads (Networks, Brokers, Exchanges, Software, PSAs):
- -- http://www.markwelch.com/bannerad.htm
- -- Web Counters: http://www.markwelch.com/counter.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:17:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mark J. Welch, Esq." <markwelch@ca-probate.com>
Subject: Re: Common Law Spouse Dies Without a Will, Creating Messy Estate
Lloyd Colston wrote:
> I do have a client whose common-law spouse died without a will.
> The estate is a mess. (This is your plug for getting your wills all
> drawn up nice and neat NOW.)
> After all is said and done, it appears that the survivor will
> have about a snowball's chance in Hades of collecting anything
> more than 25% of the land they owned as tenants in common.
> And it ain't worth much.
This is perhaps a good time to point out that in California, and
perhaps many other states, there is NO SUCH THING as a
"common law marriage," so that cohabitation or living together
(even if claiming to be married) will NOT create any rights or
duties, nor any inheritance rights.
In states that do honor "common law marriage" (ironically, it
is generally specified in a statute), I think that a common law
spouse has the exact same rights as a spouse with a marriage
license. (Of course, no common law marriage can exist unless
both parties are not married to other people.) So I think that
what Lloyd meant to say was that two people who considered
themselves to be in a "common law marriage" failed to do any
written estate planning, and the survivor later learned that the
state did not provide inheritance rights to persons who believed
they were in a "common law marriage."
Of course, everyone should prepare a written estate plan, but
in 90% of families, failing to prepare a written plan will really
have no serious damaging effect because the laws of intestate
succession are actually based on what people actually do when
they prepare wills (leaving all to spouse, or kids, etc.).
Anyone in a "non-traditional" family (unmarried, or kids from
prior marriages) faces more complex planning needs and should
certainly sit down and prepare a written plan because the state
law pertaining to "intestate succession" rarely matches your
intent.
- -- Mark J. Welch (510) 462-8483 http://www.ca-probate.com/
- -- Web Site Banner Ads (Networks, Brokers, Exchanges, Software, PSAs):
- -- http://www.markwelch.com/bannerad.htm
- -- Web Counters: http://www.markwelch.com/counter.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:18:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: APRESTON@server.vcccd.cc.ca.us
Subject: Borrowing to Pay for Daughter's Education?
i am going to pay my daughter's education costs at a university in california
for two years (jr/sr) starting in august 1998, approx $10K/year, i estimate.
i am looking at options and advantages, and thinking the following:
i could borrow the money on a home equity loan, and get a small decution on
the interest.
i could then give her the money as a gift, which would be non-taxable for her
- - $10,000 year?
can i do both, getting sort of a double advantage?
alternatively, if i just paid her bills for her, i.e., write a check to the
university for tuition, books, etc., would she still have to claim that as
income, even though i'm paying it directly to the school?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:18:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: jamester <jamester@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Driving across country, AI fraud prevention
>>It is best to notify your CC company before you begin your trip about the
>>fact so you aren't inconvenienced.
>I've neer done this, but I'd hope that if they weren't
>able to contact me as they did, that they'd _stop_
>the card, not cancel it -- and have me verify it from
>the next retailer at which I tried to use it.
>
>Anyone else have such an experience with any other
>cards?
Actually I have. I'm with First Card UA visa and back when I was doing a lot
of travelling, First Card used to call and left me a message on the answering
machine asking me to call them back. Since I live alone, fortunately I can
check my machine from anywhere in the world so I was able to call them. (they
simply asked to verify SSN, mother's maiden name, card#, etc.). And one other
time I was back home in California, paying for my long-term parking fee at the
airport and the attendant had to call in the bank to verify that i'm legit.
But it looks like they only did this once or twice a year..especially if you
haven't travelled for 4-5 months and suddenly you're charging a grand for
air ticket, a grand for a hotel room, etc etc, then you get flagged. If you
travel frequently, they don't really bother.
And I agree..the account should just be flagged and wait for verification
from card owner, rather than closed. The bank should only close it
immediately if the cardholder calls to report loss.
Jamester
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:18:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ken Meinken" <kmeinken@one.net>
Subject: re: The Role of Government
> From: "Mark Hamann" <hamann@myk.ilc.or.jp>
> I think the government's job is to do everything that benefits society
> collectively but doesn't seem to benefit us individually.
Mark,
your thoughts, of course, are generalized. In the U.S., our
Constitution does not give the Federal Government such authority.
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:19:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com>
Subject: Re: It's Better Not To Use the Roth IRA
You are correct, but make an over-generalization. Your analysis is spot-on
for someone who has made only deductible contributions. For someone who has
made non-deductible contributions and hasn't yet had much earnings (the IRA
is only a few years old, for example) the Roth is a better deal:
Assumptions:
* $10,000 of non-deductible contributions.
* $16,000 current value of the IRA.
Regular IRA:
$16,000 * 1.1^20 = $107,640 - $16,000 = $91,640 taxable * 40% = $36,656 taxes
$107,640 - $36,656 = $70,984 final value after taxes.
Roth IRA:
$16,000 - $10,000 = $6,000 taxable on conversion * 40% = $2,400 in taxes
$16,000 - $2,400 = $13,600 available to convert
$13,600 * 1.1^20 = $91,493 final value
So for this person the Roth IRA would be a big win.
You really have to run the numbers for your own personal situation.
Rich Carreiro
rlcarr@animato.pn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:20:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "L. Chen" <am302@FreeNet.Buffalo.EDU>
Subject: Re: It's Better Not To Use the Roth IRA
> By the way, here's something that wasn't obvious to me at first. Let's
> say someone with $100,000 in a "traditional" IRA decides to switch it
> into the new Roth IRA (or IRA Plus, or whatever it's called) so they
> won't have to pay taxes on it in the future. For the purposes of this
> analysis, let's assume the person is in the same 40% marginal tax
> bracket now and when the money is withdrawn. Also assume a 10% annual
> return and 20 years before withdrawing the entire amount.
>
> Traditional IRA: $100,000 * 1.1^20 * (100% - 40%) = 403,650
> Roth IRA: (100% - 40%) * $100,000 * 1.1^20 = 403,650
What I read is: If you have the cash, pay the tax and roll over 100%. Then
you can "shelter" the growth of that 40% tax free for the next 20 years.
Lily Chen
am302@freenet.buffalo.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:20:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: George_McAuliffe.BNY@LNOTES.bankofny.com
Subject: If Too Many People Bought Index Funds, The System Would Collapse ???
These two hypotheses were cited:
>>From: Ken Stone <kstone@pantheon.yale.edu>
I just read an interesting article about index funds on the Slate web site.
The basis of the article is that if too many people bought index funds then the
system would collapse. In other words, the few who do the index route can only
benefit if the majority of fools try to play and beat the market. However,
once too many start indexing, the system falls apart.
( http://www.mindspring.com/~us012121/indexfunds.html )
>>(Editor's Comment - Seems to me that it has the same danger as other
derivatives (remember Orange County's bond investments)? Suppose everyone
bought the index funds and nobody bought the stocks. Then the index fund's
price would be based on a demand for the fund's shares, totally divorcing it
from the economic worth of the stocks making up the index.- -IK)
However, reality (and most finance people) do not support these ideas. For
example, what about money itself? We were "divorced" from the gold standard
(every $ backed by a set amount of gold) years ago, and the system never fell
apart.
As far as stocks, there are also many index funds focusing on different areas
of the market (tech, healthcare, energy) or published indexes (Dow, S&P,
Russell). But let's assume the simplest case. One index, that owns every
stock out there. So yes, people no longer "directly" own stocks. But if the
economy is good, and most stocks are paying dividends (which get funnelled
through the index fund to the fund investors), then clearly the fund has some
value not totally divorced from reality. And fund dividend payments will drive
up demand for fund shares, thus driving up demand (and price) for the
underlying stocks, thus feeding back in terms of appreciated fund value
(supply-demand loop).
Basically, a fund share is a derivative instrument (derived from an underlying
asset, in this case a basket of stock shares). And as with any financial
instrument, if there is any value to the underlying asset, then the instrument
will have some similar value not too far removed.
George McAuliffe.
PS - Orange County's problem was that it purchased derivative instruments that
went beyond hedging (negating one risk by taking a bet on the reverse outcome,
so that whatever happens, your net is zero). OC thus took a speculative bet
where there was a clear upside and downside (Citron claims ignorance...). And
so when the bet wasn't a winner, OC lost money. Remember, derivatives are not
evil (mantra, repeat 100 times). But like any other financial instrument, if
you don't clearly understand what you're getting into, then you could have an
ugly surprise (as if you bought life insurance without first exploring all the
issues).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:21:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: BOB FORD <BOB_FORD@compuserve.com>
Subject: How Many Times is Sales Tax Due on a Car?
I came across some information recently that started me to thinking about
sales taxes.
The average car is sold 6 times.
1. From the car manufacturer to the dealer (no sales tax)
2. Dealer to first owner. (sales tax collected)
3. First owner to second owner (sales tax collected)
4. Second owner to third owner (sales tax collected)
5. Third owner to fourth owner (sales tax collected)
6. Fourth owner to junk yard (sales tax may or may not be collected)
I know state laws differ but I think the sales tax collection system above
is true for all states that collect state sales tax. Somebody tell me if I
am wrong. What determines whether sales tax should be paid? The dealer
does not pay sales tax even though they own the car and can use if for a
demonstrator and then sell it as a used car. Very few people buy a car
and never plan to sell it. So if follows that when you buy a new or used
car, you plan to sell it someday. You just do not know when that day is.
Is there any limit to the number of times sales tax can be paid on a car?
BOB FORD
BOB_FORD@COMPUSERVE.COM
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:22:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: taliadg@juno.com (talia D. Goeke)
Subject: cars-consumer's report
I need to buy a used car. Could someone point me in the direction of
some good web sites that rate used cars?
Thanks,
Talia Goeke
taliadg@juno.com
(Editor's Comment: http://www.tiac.net/users/ikrakow/pagerefs.html
Go to the Automobiles section. Edmunds is a good start. -IK)
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Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:23:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: palace@asde.com
Subject: Can Grad Students Live High Off the Hog?
>
>Terry writes:
>
>>(Well, OK, you know what I mean) At the very time when they can make
>>larger contributions to their retirement fund, they have fewer years to do
>>that. Starting earlier would be good, but I couldn't have put money into
>>a retirement fund when my only income was from a graduate assistantship.
>
> A lot depends on the spending habits of the graduate
>student. My stipend for my 6 years as a graduate student ranged from
>about $12,000/yr to about $16,000/yr. Despite this low salary, I
>managed to put $2,000/yr into my IRA, plus save an additional
>$2,000/yr in other investments. When I finally graduated, I had a
>higher net worth than many of my friends who had been working at
>"real" jobs for 5 years. The trick is to live within your means. If
>you are smart, single, young, and part of a university community, you
>can often live very well on very little.
>
> -David Martin
Agreed. But please acknowledge that your stipend as a graduate
assistant was not typical. Graduate students at many universities (in
1996-97 year) receive $5,000 or less per year. Some of these schools do not
waive tuition, either. So, out of that stipend the student must pay
educational expenses as well as living expenses. Even if you look at the
average stipend, the $12,000 to $16,000 per year will probably come out on
the high side.
Terry
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Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:24:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Cal Lester C.L.U." <Cal_Lester@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Living Trusts
I find this very interesting as I've been considering the establishment
of a living trust and believed that this was the only way to double the
tax exemption. How does one do this without the living trust? Do you
simply provide for the spouse to disclaim the estate into a bypass trust
in the will? Help, and thanks for the great input.
Randy Barnes
>>>> Allow me to preface my comment by the FACT that I am NOT an
Attorney, and do NOT give legal advice nor do I practice law.
Having said that, I believe that you are referring to what we call an A & B
Trust. The Testator provides for a Testamentary Trust in his/her will, that
divides his/her Estate into two separate portions. An amount equal to the
Maximum that will qualify for his/her Federal Estate Tax Credit ( currently
$600,000 ), is placed into the "A" Trust and the balance going to the Spouse
in the "B" Trust. The "A" trust is for the benefit of his/her Heirs, and
therefore NEVER goes into the Estate of the surviving Spouse. The trust also
provides that ALL income generated by the trust shall be available to the
Spouse ( and sometimes the right to invade in an emergency ).
This way the first to die takes advantage of the Federal Estate Tax Credit,
and the second to die does the same. If the entire Estate were left to the
survivor, then it could and in all probability would be taxed TWICE.
Cal Lester CLU
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Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:25:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: taliadg@juno.com (talia D. Goeke)
Subject: car broker?
I'm in the market for a used car. I was wondering if anyone out there
has used a car broker to buy a car and what their experience was. The
company who's pamphlet I have is called Auto Consultants Northwest (in
the Seattle area). What I am interested in was, did they save you enough
money to justify the cost to them? When I talked with the fellow there,
he was a little vague on how they got their money but what I gathered was
that they get the car and sell to you for a profit.
Any feedback on using a car broker would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Talia Goeke
taliadg@juno.com
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Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:25:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Susan Mangiero <mangiero@shu.sacredheart.edu>
Subject: The Role of Government
>
>Mark Hamann wrote:
>
> So the question I want to ask is "Can the government
> compel/coerce/encourage people to do what is collectively beneficial....
I do not believe that the use of coercion is moral nor do I believe in
the idea of a collective. "Society" is after all made up of individuals.
For those who believe in the "collective good", when is it "okay" to deny
individuals their liberties? Moreover,
who gets to make the decision and suppose you disagree with the decision
makers? For those who say "the majority", let me
remind you that slavery in the U.S. was legal because of a majority
approval. However, slavery is completely immoral because it
denies individuals their rights to live freely. Therefore, I believe
that the only role of govt. is to protect individual freedoms and not to
abrogate them. Ayn Rand made this point brilliantly in her novel entitled
Atlas Shrugged.
Susan M. Mangiero
mangiero@shu.sacredheart.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:26:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: BOB FORD <BOB_FORD@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Home Purchase Question
>From: George Kolb <GCKOLB@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU>
>Subject: Attorney at closing/along the way?
>My wife and I are looking into buying a house and wondered if an attorney
>is necessary during the process and/or at closing? I realize this may be
>the _preferred_ route, but I'd like to hear from people who decided to
>"go it alone," and what their feelings were on the process.
>I'm the type of person who will actually read all the small print when I
>sign something, read all the "change in terms" notices whenever a credit
>card sends them out, etc., so I wanted to know if the new house process
>is *so* complex that it's nearly unheard of to do it without an attorney.
>If so, should I have an attorney for certain times/documents? Other than
>reviewing documents, what does an attorney do at closing? I'm not averse
>to getting an attorney, but if reviewing documents is the main job, and I
>can get them ahead of time and go over them myself, I would probably opt
>for doing it myself.
>What are some of the most important pitfalls to this alternative, and if
>I do go ahead and go it alone, do the banks give you adequate time to
>review documents?
>TIA,
>George Kolb
>Gainesville, FL
GEORGE
I am not an attorney and the following is not legal advice. It is just my
opinion. It is based on my experience in California. The laws of your
state may be different.
I have been a real estate investor for 30 years. I have bought and sold
more houses than I can remember.
An attorney is NOT required to close a home purchase. I live in California
and we do not use attorneys on closing residential property. We have
escrow offices that do that work. I do not think that is the way it is
done in Florida.
You do not need an attorney but you need some one that is knowledgeable in
real estate closing to do the paperwork. It is not so much a case or
reading all documents although that is part if it. You must be sure the
right documents are created and created correctly.
If you are not knowledgeable in matters involving real estate you should
get someone that is to advise you. That person probably will be a real
estate attorney.
A house purchase is probably the largest purchase you will make. A few
hours of a real estate attorneys time is cheap insurance.
GOOD LUCK
BOB FORD
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End of persfin-digest V4 #71
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